New here

June 20, 2008

Wow, your description of your son describes mine to a tee. I was a

bit resentful at first when his 4K teacher hinted at his having PDD.

One thing Peyton loves his other children and in my ignorant view,

autistic kids were anti-social. Of course I didn't know that they

were just socially challenged, not anti-social (a big difference). By

the end of kindergarten it was clear that something was different. I

had him evaluated for language because I noticed that Peyton has a

hard time telling me things. He is great with direct questions but

struggles with open-ended conversations. The S & L pathologist

recognized him for what he is and referred him for an ASD evaluation.

I (like you) am happy he is going to be getting services. I struggle

with the feeling that this label is going to stigmatize him and the

fact that w/o it he will not have social skills and be ostracized

anyway. I'll have to look into that book. With the summer off, a bit

of useful reading will be nice

--Jill

-- In , rushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote:

>

> Jill,

>

> You are teacher too?! And, work with children with Aspergers? Wow!

That I think would help you even more! I think it is great that you

already know your son has Aspergers. I look back and see all the

signs...and no one ever told me or mentioned anything to me. His

kindergarten teacher should have realized something....I see it all

now. I would have thought she'd had seen the signs of ADHD. In 3rd

grade, out of fustration, I started reading this book my boss who was

a licensed psychologist recommended to family with a lot of problems

with their children. She basically recommended this one chapter for

them to read. Well, since I felt my house was too chotic too...I began

reading. But I started in the beginning...the book was called From

Caosis to Calm. Well let me tell you that opened my eyes. I talked to

my boss, see gave me rating sheets to give to 's teacher and we

did them at home. When the teacher got it, she said, oh thank goodness, I

> noticed it the first day of school....now it was October. Huh? So,

no one was going to say anything...just let him struggle in school???

Anyways, enough of that...he was tested and dx as ADHD. Then this

Fall (6th grade) we started getting " wrap around " service thru the

Access Card (PA state). We work with an agency who had they

Psychiatrist evaluate him and dx him PDD NOS. Then at the next

evaluation (4 months later) he was DX as

> AS. I was a little shocked. Not in total agreement but I don't

really care what they DX him as...just as long as he gets the services

and assistance that he needs. I see several things in him...ADHD,

Anxiety (big time), AS (no social skills), PDD (very immature for his

age), Sensory Issues (too many), Obsessions (can't drop a subject

until in his mind he totally understands it), No compulsion controls

(when angry will throw or break things), Anger issues, Motor skill

problems (major and fine). Wow, now that I think about all this what

he has to deal with ! I think I would be overloaded too!

>

> I think our kids do better with other kids that don't fit in well

either. His 2 friends are not in the " in crowd " as you would say. His

one friend is tiny, quiet and sort of meekish. His other friend is

one year old but not well liked by many of his peers. So, they are

all a little different. and his friends are all aware of his

" issues " and I think it helps them understand and cope better with him

especially when he starts to get " on their nerves " or starts becoming

annoying.

>

> There is hope. Just keep an eye on your son as he is still very

young and kids that age don't understand " being different " . Make

playdates at your home and keep your eyes and ears open at all time.

Role play with you son.

>

> But, now that is 12 going on 13, his mobile therapist told me

I have to let him fight his own " battles " ....I have to step back and

let him figure things out. I know she is right but it is hard....I

just try to give him advice! And, always always pick up on the

Positive thrings and emphasize all the good things in him. My son is

always saying he is " stupid " and I tell him that he is very smart and

list things he is good in. He can't spell for beans and is not a good

read (although that is improving) ...I always tell him that there are

a lot of people who can't spell and that is why we have dictonaries

and spell check in the computer!

>

> Anyway, email me any time. I like speaking with you. Hope I helped.

> jrushen@...

>

> Jan R

>

> Janice Rushen

> Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

> Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

> Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

> Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

> Student, Believer, and Giver.

>

> From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@...>

> Subject: Re: ( ) New here

>

> Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 9:19 AM

>

> Jan,

>

> It's great to hear that your son has friends. I teach high school and

> have had experience with 3 children with Aspergers over the 6 years

> I've taught. All of them struggled socially and virtually had no

> friends. The one boy I had in my class this past year finally started

> making some friends and his parents commented to me at Parent=teacher

> conferences that it was the first time he's had friends. I am just so

> worried that my son will experience this social isolation. Thankfully

> they are going to do some social training with him in 1st grade and

> set up some friend groups and I hope to God that helps! Anyway, it

> did make me feel better to know that friendships are possible

>

> Jill

>

> >

> > From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@ ...>

> > Subject: ( ) New here

> >

> > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 4:42 PM

> >

> > Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Jill and my ds is Peyton. He

> > just turned six and this has been a roller coaster ride this past

> > year. We always thought Peyton had ADHD because of his hyperactivity.

> > We never considered ASD because from my limited and ignorant

> > information I thought autistic kids were non communicative and sat in

> > a a chair rocking to and fro all day. Initially when ASD was

> > suggested to me, I was defensive and in denial. The more I read about

> > it, the more I realized that it fits my son to a Tee. I'm not sure if

> > Peyton has Aspergers yet. He is definitely high functioning.

> > Currently we just have an " educational diagnosis for him. We are

> > waiting for a meeting with a developmental pediatrician but are so far

> > just having trouble getting anyone to return our calls.

> >

> > Peyton's primary area of difficulty is socially. He loves playing

> > with other kids, but struggles with the give and take of social

> > interactions and is typically clueless with social nuances and often

> > doesn't get it when friends are irritated etc. He has a few obsessive

> > interests. Right now he is big-time into storms and tornadoes. This

> > has been his #1 interest for over a year now. Prior to this it was

> > airplanes.

> >

> > I'm looking to talk to others with kids that are similar in age to

> > Peyton and are going through some of the same things. I am often

> > times sad for him. I want him to find a niche so badly. I hope he

> > will. If only he could have 1 really close friend.

> >

>

June 21, 2008

Hi Jan and Jill-

I just have to jump in here because my experience has been so much

like yours. First off, I was a teacher before I stayed home with the

kids--spec ed teacher no less! I still didn't see everything with my

son as AS and did feel a litte defensive when it was mentioned. But

I have worked through that thanks to you people in these groups. I

started in the SID group because my son has a lot of sensory issues,

then I moved on to this when I was more ready to face the label.

Technically my son is not DX yet-we are still waiting for the

appointment, and my son is mild too. He is 5- sensory issues,

socially inappropriate " Why are you fat? " , anger issues, meltdowns,

acts younger than age. But it is real and I have real issues-it is

actually a relief to admit that. For a while it was all on me as I

assumed I must be " failing " to " discipline " my child. Now I am so

thankful for all of the support of the team of teachers and

therapists that have helped him. He has come a long way but he still

needs support.

in NY

2-6-01

6-17-03

3-6-07

> > >

> > > From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@ ...>

> > > Subject: ( ) New here

> > >

> > > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 4:42 PM

> > >

> > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Jill and my ds is Peyton.

He

> > > just turned six and this has been a roller coaster ride this

past

> > > year. We always thought Peyton had ADHD because of his

hyperactivity.

> > > We never considered ASD because from my limited and ignorant

> > > information I thought autistic kids were non communicative and

sat in

> > > a a chair rocking to and fro all day. Initially when ASD was

> > > suggested to me, I was defensive and in denial. The more I

read about

> > > it, the more I realized that it fits my son to a Tee. I'm not

sure if

> > > Peyton has Aspergers yet. He is definitely high functioning.

> > > Currently we just have an " educational diagnosis for him. We

are

> > > waiting for a meeting with a developmental pediatrician but

are so far

> > > just having trouble getting anyone to return our calls.

> > >

> > > Peyton's primary area of difficulty is socially. He loves

playing

> > > with other kids, but struggles with the give and take of social

> > > interactions and is typically clueless with social nuances and

often

> > > doesn't get it when friends are irritated etc. He has a few

obsessive

> > > interests. Right now he is big-time into storms and tornadoes.

This

> > > has been his #1 interest for over a year now. Prior to this it

was

> > > airplanes.

> > >

> > > I'm looking to talk to others with kids that are similar in

age to

> > > Peyton and are going through some of the same things. I am

often

> > > times sad for him. I want him to find a niche so badly. I hope

he

> > > will. If only he could have 1 really close friend.

> > >

> >

>

June 22, 2008

Hi ,

I agree...it is a relief to know we are NOT alone and that there are other parents out there struggling too! is my only son and I had him when I was 40. I never expected all this! I never had trouble in school, was a straight A student. I was picked on a lot in 6th grade, so I decided I rather be alone than teased (kids called me Apple because of my round face). I never in my life would have dreamed my son would have trouble learning. My biggest problem is not the DX becuase I really don't care what they DX him...just as long as he gets the services he needs, gets the education he needs so that he can be productive in society and stand on his own. I really don't care now if he wants to be a plumber, computer geek, salesman, "sanitation person" ...as long as he is HAPPY with what he does, is a good citizen and can support himself. That is my goal. Anything beyone or above this would be a gift. I just want him to be HAPPY

and lead a Cristian life. I worry and get upset about the socialization skills our kids lack. We are working on that.

What hurts me the most is to see him hurting inside...no friends, no one calls, kids tease him, kids being really, really cruel and NaSTY, kids running away from him, etc. etc. et. This is what I HATE the most! This is what stresses me out and worries me the most!

But like you said, if we all stick together, read and help one another...we will get thru this. God has a plan and a purpose for each one of us including our children. And, as I said to , if we were all the same...it sure would be one boring world. And, who would have invented the light bulb, the computer, the theory of relativity....etc. etc.

Thanks.

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: sbarb33 <sbarb33@...>Subject: ( ) Re: New here Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 5:25 PM

Hi Jan and Jill-I just have to jump in here because my experience has been so much like yours. First off, I was a teacher before I stayed home with the kids--spec ed teacher no less! I still didn't see everything with my son as AS and did feel a litte defensive when it was mentioned. But I have worked through that thanks to you people in these groups. I started in the SID group because my son has a lot of sensory issues, then I moved on to this when I was more ready to face the label. Technically my son is not DX yet-we are still waiting for the appointment, and my son is mild too. He is 5- sensory issues, socially inappropriate "Why are you fat?", anger issues, meltdowns, acts younger than age. But it is real and I have real issues-it is actually a relief to admit that. For a while it was all on me as I assumed I must be "failing" to "discipline" my child. Now I am so thankful for all of the

support of the team of teachers and therapists that have helped him. He has come a long way but he still needs support. in NY 2-6-01 6-17-03 3-6-07> > > > > > From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@ ...>> > > Subject: ( ) New here> > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008,

4:42 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Jill and my ds is Peyton. He> > > just turned six and this has been a roller coaster ride this past> > > year. We always thought Peyton had ADHD because of his hyperactivity.> > > We never considered ASD because from my limited and ignorant> > > information I thought autistic kids were non communicative and sat in> > > a a chair rocking to and fro all day. Initially when ASD was> > > suggested to me, I was defensive and in denial. The more I read about> > > it, the more I realized that it fits my son to a Tee. I'm not sure if> > > Peyton has Aspergers yet. He is definitely high functioning. > > > Currently we just have an "educational

diagnosis for him. We are> > > waiting for a meeting with a developmental pediatrician but are so far> > > just having trouble getting anyone to return our calls. > > > > > > Peyton's primary area of difficulty is socially. He loves playing> > > with other kids, but struggles with the give and take of social> > > interactions and is typically clueless with social nuances and often> > > doesn't get it when friends are irritated etc. He has a few obsessive> > > interests. Right now he is big-time into storms and tornadoes. This> > > has been his #1 interest for over a year now. Prior to this it was> > > airplanes. > > > > > > I'm looking to talk to others with kids that are similar in age to> > > Peyton and are going through some of the same things. I am

often> > > times sad for him. I want him to find a niche so badly. I hope he> > > will. If only he could have 1 really close friend.> > >> >>

June 22, 2008

My biggest worry is that my son actually is the bully--kids don't

like him because he may hurt them. He may say he hates them when

they didn't do anything but sit near him. He will be a big adult--he

is already tall for his age, but he acts younger than his age. I try

to nurture him a lot and say he is my " baby " because he seems to

love it and like to be cuddled. But people may think that I am

allowing the inappropriate behavior--which I don't!! I try to

redirect him and discipline him, but I don't want to face him with

anger all the time-- I want to find positive ways to reinforce the

good choices he makes. My biggest fear without the extra help is

that he would be in jail as an adult. He faces his world with anger

instead of smiles. This has improved and I have seen a lot more

smiles, but it is a challenge. My other two kids are much more

smiley so I know I did not make him this way.

in NY

> > > >

> > > > From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@ ...>

> > > > Subject: ( ) New here

> > > >

> > > > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 4:42 PM

> > > >

> > > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Jill and my ds is

Peyton.

> He

> > > > just turned six and this has been a roller coaster ride this

> past

> > > > year. We always thought Peyton had ADHD because of his

> hyperactivity.

> > > > We never considered ASD because from my limited and ignorant

> > > > information I thought autistic kids were non communicative

and

> sat in

> > > > a a chair rocking to and fro all day. Initially when ASD was

> > > > suggested to me, I was defensive and in denial. The more I

> read about

> > > > it, the more I realized that it fits my son to a Tee. I'm

not

> sure if

> > > > Peyton has Aspergers yet. He is definitely high functioning.

> > > > Currently we just have an " educational diagnosis for him. We

> are

> > > > waiting for a meeting with a developmental pediatrician but

> are so far

> > > > just having trouble getting anyone to return our calls.

> > > >

> > > > Peyton's primary area of difficulty is socially. He loves

> playing

> > > > with other kids, but struggles with the give and take of

social

> > > > interactions and is typically clueless with social nuances

and

> often

> > > > doesn't get it when friends are irritated etc. He has a few

> obsessive

> > > > interests. Right now he is big-time into storms and

tornadoes.

> This

> > > > has been his #1 interest for over a year now. Prior to this

it

> was

> > > > airplanes.

> > > >

> > > > I'm looking to talk to others with kids that are similar in

> age to

> > > > Peyton and are going through some of the same things. I am

> often

> > > > times sad for him. I want him to find a niche so badly. I

hope

> he

> > > > will. If only he could have 1 really close friend.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 23, 2008

Social concerns is my biggest worry as well. My hopes for Peyton are

that he can have a few good friends, feels like he belongs and can

excel at something and lives a happy life where he finds a niche. He

says he wants to be a storm chaser when he grows up. If that is what

he becomes, then so be it. I'll be happy if he is. It's amazing to

me because a year ago I would have said that Peyton was hyperactive

and had poor attention, but I would have also said he was extremely

social. His problem lies in the fact that he loves other kids, but is

clueless how to appropriately interact with them.

*sigh*

-

-- In , " sbarb33 " <sbarb33@...> wrote:

>

> My biggest worry is that my son actually is the bully--kids don't

> like him because he may hurt them. He may say he hates them when

> they didn't do anything but sit near him. He will be a big adult--he

> is already tall for his age, but he acts younger than his age. I try

> to nurture him a lot and say he is my " baby " because he seems to

> love it and like to be cuddled. But people may think that I am

> allowing the inappropriate behavior--which I don't!! I try to

> redirect him and discipline him, but I don't want to face him with

> anger all the time-- I want to find positive ways to reinforce the

> good choices he makes. My biggest fear without the extra help is

> that he would be in jail as an adult. He faces his world with anger

> instead of smiles. This has improved and I have seen a lot more

> smiles, but it is a challenge. My other two kids are much more

> smiley so I know I did not make him this way.

>

> in NY

>

> > > > >

> > > > > From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@ ...>

> > > > > Subject: ( ) New here

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 4:42 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Jill and my ds is

> Peyton.

> > He

> > > > > just turned six and this has been a roller coaster ride this

> > past

> > > > > year. We always thought Peyton had ADHD because of his

> > hyperactivity.

> > > > > We never considered ASD because from my limited and ignorant

> > > > > information I thought autistic kids were non communicative

> and

> > sat in

> > > > > a a chair rocking to and fro all day. Initially when ASD was

> > > > > suggested to me, I was defensive and in denial. The more I

> > read about

> > > > > it, the more I realized that it fits my son to a Tee. I'm

> not

> > sure if

> > > > > Peyton has Aspergers yet. He is definitely high functioning.

> > > > > Currently we just have an " educational diagnosis for him. We

> > are

> > > > > waiting for a meeting with a developmental pediatrician but

> > are so far

> > > > > just having trouble getting anyone to return our calls.

> > > > >

> > > > > Peyton's primary area of difficulty is socially. He loves

> > playing

> > > > > with other kids, but struggles with the give and take of

> social

> > > > > interactions and is typically clueless with social nuances

> and

> > often

> > > > > doesn't get it when friends are irritated etc. He has a few

> > obsessive

> > > > > interests. Right now he is big-time into storms and

> tornadoes.

> > This

> > > > > has been his #1 interest for over a year now. Prior to this

> it

> > was

> > > > > airplanes.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm looking to talk to others with kids that are similar in

> > age to

> > > > > Peyton and are going through some of the same things. I am

> > often

> > > > > times sad for him. I want him to find a niche so badly. I

> hope

> > he

> > > > > will. If only he could have 1 really close friend.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 24, 2008

Oh, that is so exactly like my son and my same exact thoughts!

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@...>Subject: ( ) Re: New here Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 5:34 PM

Social concerns is my biggest worry as well. My hopes for Peyton arethat he can have a few good friends, feels like he belongs and canexcel at something and lives a happy life where he finds a niche. Hesays he wants to be a storm chaser when he grows up. If that is whathe becomes, then so be it. I'll be happy if he is. It's amazing tome because a year ago I would have said that Peyton was hyperactiveand had poor attention, but I would have also said he was extremelysocial. His problem lies in the fact that he loves other kids, but isclueless how to appropriately interact with them.*sigh*> > > > > > > > > > From: vangruensvenji <vangruensvenji@

....>> > > > > Subject: ( ) New here> > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 4:42 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Jill and my ds is > Peyton. > > He> > > > > just turned six and this has been a roller coaster ride this > > past> > > > > year. We always thought Peyton had ADHD because of his > > hyperactivity.> > > > > We never considered ASD because from my limited and ignorant> > > > > information I thought autistic kids were non communicative > and > > sat in> > > > > a a chair

rocking to and fro all day. Initially when ASD was> > > > > suggested to me, I was defensive and in denial. The more I > > read about> > > > > it, the more I realized that it fits my son to a Tee. I'm > not > > sure if> > > > > Peyton has Aspergers yet. He is definitely high functioning. > > > > > Currently we just have an "educational diagnosis for him. We > > are> > > > > waiting for a meeting with a developmental pediatrician but > > are so far> > > > > just having trouble getting anyone to return our calls. > > > > > > > > > > Peyton's primary area of difficulty is socially. He loves > > playing> > > > > with other kids, but struggles with the give and take of > social> > > > > interactions and is

typically clueless with social nuances > and > > often> > > > > doesn't get it when friends are irritated etc. He has a few > > obsessive> > > > > interests. Right now he is big-time into storms and > tornadoes. > > This> > > > > has been his #1 interest for over a year now. Prior to this > it > > was> > > > > airplanes. > > > > > > > > > > I'm looking to talk to others with kids that are similar in > > age to> > > > > Peyton and are going through some of the same things. I am > > often> > > > > times sad for him. I want him to find a niche so badly. I > hope > > he> > > > > will. If only he could have 1 really close friend.> > > > >> > > >> >

>> >>

June 29, 2008

Being totally alone any time in the first two weeks post-op is not feasible.

At least I don't think so. You will be on pain meds, loopy and sleeping

lots. You will probably be in the hospital for about four nights then

discharged, but if they know you are alone, they might put you in a rehab

center for another week. I went to my mother's following surgery (I was

having this in my hometown, instead of my home) and she was a big help

making meals and fetching things for me.

You will be able to get around but probably won't feel up to changing your

sheets or making your meals. You could go home if someone can come over to

help you several times a day. You will be able to get to the bathroom and

sponge-bathe yourself, etc. But with a walker it will be hard to carry

things. At two weeks post-op I could vacuum so it's just a matter of a few

days needing help.

What do you do at work? I was able to sit at my computer in week three

post-op and do my work but I work as an analyst at home so I could work for

an hour (sitting up hurts a bit in the knee and you also still need lots of

rest) then rest or go to PT then go back to work. All day in an office is

probably truly feasible about 7 weeks post-op, perhaps 5 but you may still

need to be going to PT appointments at that point making your schedule

weird. Also, you won't be able to drive until 7 or 8 weeks. I had my right

knee done and I started driving again at 7 but it hurt and finally was

easier at 8 weeks.

New Here

Hi Everyone -

I just joined this site tonight and have already learned a lot by

reading the posts. I am 56 and am looking at a knee replacement on my

right knee. I have had a lot of pain for 4 years and because of that

have really limited my activities. Of course, I have gained a lot of

weight and am not active at all anymore.

I live alone (with my cats) and would like to return to my home after

surgery instead of going home with my family (who all live 1 1/2 hours

from me). Is this feasible at all?

Also, about what is the time of being off work? I am hoping to return

to work as soon as possible and right now have about 5 weeks of leave

saved.

thanks for any help,

Debbie

------------------------------------

July 3, 2008

Hello and welcome. My son had torticollis as well as plagio. he had a flat spot in the back right and this cause his front forehead to bulge outward. we banded him in a DOC band by Cranial Technologies, visit their website and look for a location near you. They are the pioneers of the band and were really truly the most professional. We banded our baby at 4 1/2 months and he was done around 6 months.

Cranial tech will give you a free evaluation so you will know the measurments you are dealing with. you can be moderate, mild and severe. we were moderate to severe at 15 mm assemity.

We went to PT for a few months and did torticollis stretches each day. We took the helmet off to do the stretches. We are now torticollis free and plagio free and loving our sons head. He just turned a year!

Let us know what area you are from so that we can advise about providers in that particular area. Dont be afraid. we are all here to help. Good luck and be brave, the baby needs you to help and you will do what you need to do to get through this time. Tammy

From: constance <constancem78@...>Subject: new herePlagiocephaly Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 8:40 PM

my name is connie and my 8mth old son cadyn has been diagnosed withplagiocephaly and i am unsure of what happens from here. the havementioned specialist and a helmet and i scares me because i am notsure how he will react to all this he also has torticollis to if uhave any info that will be helpful please let me know thanx

July 3, 2008

Hi Connie-

Welcome. My son saw two specialists before getting his helmet, so that

is really pretty standard for pediatricians who aren't trained in

plagio or willing to prescribe the helmet themselves. A specialist is

also used to rule out the more serious craniosynostosis (which

requires surgery), but it sounds like that is not an issue for your

son. The process prior to getting the helmet is really the toughest

part. Once you get it and they adjust to it, it really becomes old

hat. And most babies adjust to it really easily, they are much more

resilient than we give them credit for!

Are you going to physical therapy for the torticollis? If not, I

strongly recommend that you do. My son had tort and was in PT from

about 2 months old to 4.5 months old and it is completely resolved.

It's very important to resolve the tort so if you're already doing

stretching exercises, keep it up. It will pay off in the end. If not,

definitely get to a PT as soon as you can to start on them.

Good luck!

Jake-21m (tort resolved/rt plagio/DOCBand #2 4 weeks)

Jordan-4

>

> my name is connie and my 8mth old son cadyn has been diagnosed with

> plagiocephaly and i am unsure of what happens from here. the have

> mentioned specialist and a helmet and i scares me because i am not

> sure how he will react to all this he also has torticollis to if u

> have any info that will be helpful please let me know thanx

>

July 3, 2008

THANX FOR REPLYING YES MY SON IS GETTING PHYSICAL THERAPHY BUT I AM JUST SCARED FOR HIM BECAUSE OF THE HELMET BUT I KNOW HE WILL BE FINE THANX AGAIN

From: <nwilkens2275@...>Subject: Re: new herePlagiocephaly Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 3:22 AM

Hi Connie-Welcome. My son saw two specialists before getting his helmet, so that is really pretty standard for pediatricians who aren't trained in plagio or willing to prescribe the helmet themselves. A specialist is also used to rule out the more serious craniosynostosis (which requires surgery), but it sounds like that is not an issue for your son. The process prior to getting the helmet is really the toughest part. Once you get it and they adjust to it, it really becomes old hat. And most babies adjust to it really easily, they are much more resilient than we give them credit for!Are you going to physical therapy for the torticollis? If not, I strongly recommend that you do. My son had tort and was in PT from about 2 months old to 4.5 months old and it is completely resolved. It's very important to resolve the tort so if you're already doing stretching exercises, keep it up. It will pay

off in the end. If not, definitely get to a PT as soon as you can to start on them. Good luck!Jake-21m (tort resolved/rt plagio/DOCBand #2 4 weeks)Jordan-4>> my name is connie and my 8mth old son cadyn has been diagnosed with> plagiocephaly and i am unsure of what happens from here. the have> mentioned specialist and a helmet and i scares me because i am not> sure how he will react to all this he also has torticollis to if u> have any info that will be helpful please let me know thanx>

July 3, 2008

THANX FOR REPLYING I LIVE IN LEAGUE CITY,TX READING UR E-MAIL WAS ENCOURAGING MY ONLY FEAR IS HIM ADJUSTING TO THE HELMET BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY 8MTHS OLD HE IS ALREADY GOING THROUGH PYHSICAL THERAPY FOR THE TORTICOLLIS AND NOW THEY ARE GOING TO X-RAY HIS HEAD I HAVE THE SAME PROB BUT MINE WAS NEVER CORRECTED AND I JUST DON'T WANT HIM TO GO THROUGH WHAT I HAVE THANX AGAIN

From: constance <constancem78>Subject: new herePlagiocephalyDate: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 8:40 PM

my name is connie and my 8mth old son cadyn has been diagnosed withplagiocephaly and i am unsure of what happens from here. the havementioned specialist and a helmet and i scares me because i am notsure how he will react to all this he also has torticollis to if uhave any info that will be helpful please let me know thanx

July 7, 2008

Constance,

When you say that you have the same problem, do you mean torticollis or plagio? I am curious to know. My daughter also has torticollis and a combination of plagio and brachy as a result of it. From what I've been reading, the helmet helps reshape the head but only PT can resolve the torticollis. I also read that if the torticollis is not taken care of early on that later on in life a surgical procedure might be required.

By the way, Maysa (my daughter) just got her helmet this past Wednesday and is doing great so far. It needs to be adjusted a little because it sometimes touches her nose, but other than that, she has no red spots, heat rashes or anything like that. She sweat a lot at the beginning but it's already getting better. Kids that age handle things better than what we give them credit for. Once your son gets his helmet, if he is really uncomfortable, he'll let you know and it will probably need to be adjusted.

At the end, you are doing it for them and for your peace of mind.

Good luck,

Leila

From: constance <constancem78>Subject: new herePlagiocephalyDate: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 8:40 PM

my name is connie and my 8mth old son cadyn has been diagnosed withplagiocephaly and i am unsure of what happens from here. the havementioned specialist and a helmet and i scares me because i am notsure how he will react to all this he also has torticollis to if uhave any info that will be helpful please let me know thanx

July 18, 2008

Hi Are you aware the sparachetes that are lyme disease can reproduce

and not all get killed after treatment sometimes. Most times if it

is let go. You may actually still have it.

>

> Greetings:

>

> My name is and I just joined this list. I don't know if I am

in the right place, so allow me to introduce myself.

>

> I am a 31 year old survivor of Lyme disease. I contracted it

sometime before my tenth birthday - I never saw a bull's eye rash or

any kind of rash, really, so my family and I had no clue anything was

wrong until I started suffering from joint pain and swelling. I spent

probably a third of my fifth grade year in the hospital - the first

set of doctors had no clue what was wrong with me (this was 1987) and

treated me for juvenile rheumetoid arthritis. Later, my parents took

me to another doctor who confirmed that it was Lyme disease.

>

> I underwent treatment with antibiotics and physical therapy, since

I could not walk by this time and had trouble using my hands and

fingers. I was also monitored since my heart rate was irregular and

way too rapid for someone my age (160 beats per minute). It took

about six weeks before I was well enough to leave the hospital, but

after a while, I could walk again.

>

> I pretty much lead a normal life now, but I had some lasting after

effects, namely arthritis and limited range of motion in my joints.

There are some things I cannot do because of this - for example, I

can't sit lotus style or completely close my left hand into a fist. I

think there may be some after-effects in my nervous system, as I'm

sometimes slower than other people to do things and I have a very low

tolerance for pain.

>

> I guess what I'm looking to do is talk to other survivors of Lyme

and see if my experiences compare with others.

>

> -

>

August 2, 2008

Hi Ivan,

Are they saying you need surgery?

Are they suggesting fusion?

Where are the Drs. taking this?

Blessings to you,

Joanne

New here

Howdee,

I am new to this group. After svereal MRI's, CT Scans I realized that

I have a orthopaedist surgeon's playground for a spine. I have DD, bulging

discs, spondylosis, osteochondroma, a cyst and stenosis (severe in the cervical

area with some cord flattening). My Ortho doc wants the osteochondroma and

stenosis

evaluated by a surgeon. I have appointments at the end of this month. Hopefully

I can put off surgery for a year as I am a single Dad with four kids at home.

I'll have a driver at home next summer. Have any of you tried chiropractic and

or non-surgical disc decompression

with any success? Is there a general consensus on the best ani-inflammatory or

anything for pain relief? Has anyoone tried Benfotiamine for tingling

sensation?

Any reponse would be appreciated. God bless us all. Ivan

August 2, 2008

Howdee Joanne,

Thanks for your reply. My spine specialist is not a surgeon. He said I need a

tumor specialist to review the osteochondroma. My specialist says it appears to

be in a non threatening position. He also said that I would likely need

cervical surgery for the stenosis at some time for fusion of two discs. Is disc

fusion usually successful? I have appointments with two different surgeons at

the Univ. of Penn. If they suggest surgery now, I really won't know what to

do. I have been having a lot of pain in the back of the neck and a some

headaches from hell. I have had regular tingling in my feet which has improved

from two lumbar steroid epidurals. I will ask for the third. The cyst is in the

lumbar region. I'll ask the tumor specialist if something should be done with

that like draining. I take Naprelan for inflammation and Ultracet for pain. I go

to a chiropractor (doesn't adjust my neck) and have been receiving cervical

disc decompression. It's so

hard raising four kids alone with this neck and head pain too.

Thanks for listening. God bless us all. Ivan

From: Joanne Shively <thruhiseyes1@...>

Subject: Re: New here

spinal problems

Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 4:08 PM

Hi Ivan,

Are they saying you need surgery?

Are they suggesting fusion?

Where are the Drs. taking this?

Blessings to you,

Joanne

New here

Howdee,

I am new to this group. After svereal MRI's, CT Scans I realized that

I have a orthopaedist surgeon's playground for a spine. I have DD, bulging

discs, spondylosis, osteochondroma, a cyst and stenosis (severe in the cervical

area with some cord flattening). My Ortho doc wants the osteochondroma and

stenosis

evaluated by a surgeon. I have appointments at the end of this month. Hopefully

I can put off surgery for a year as I am a single Dad with four kids at home.

I'll have a driver at home next summer. Have any of you tried chiropractic and

or non-surgical disc decompression

with any success? Is there a general consensus on the best ani-inflammatory or

anything for pain relief? Has anyoone tried Benfotiamine for tingling sensation?

Any reponse would be appreciated. God bless us all. Ivan

August 2, 2008

I had a benign tumor removed from c-2 last May. I also need fusion of c-2 & 3. I

get the headaches fromm hell and numbness in hands. I already had numbness in

feet from lumbar fusion. I know what I went through for the lumbar surg. I am

not going to have c done unless I simply cannot live with it anymore. I guess

you get to a point where you have been under the knife enough? Best of luck and

be strong as long as you can? I know my kids helped me a bunch but I was married

at the time.

Bill

From: Joanne Shively <thruhiseyes1>

Subject: Re: New here

spinedisorderssuppo rtgroup@gro ups.com

Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 4:08 PM

Hi Ivan,

Are they saying you need surgery?

Are they suggesting fusion?

Where are the Drs. taking this?

Blessings to you,

Joanne

New here

Howdee,

I am new to this group. After svereal MRI's, CT Scans I realized that

I have a orthopaedist surgeon's playground for a spine. I have DD, bulging

discs, spondylosis, osteochondroma, a cyst and stenosis (severe in the cervical

area with some cord flattening). My Ortho doc wants the osteochondroma and

stenosis

evaluated by a surgeon. I have appointments at the end of this month. Hopefully

I can put off surgery for a year as I am a single Dad with four kids at home.

I'll have a driver at home next summer. Have any of you tried chiropractic and

or non-surgical disc decompression

with any success? Is there a general consensus on the best ani-inflammatory or

anything for pain relief? Has anyoone tried Benfotiamine for tingling sensation?

Any reponse would be appreciated. God bless us all. Ivan

August 3, 2008

Hi Ivan,

Yeah, I was wondering if your Drs were directing you towards surgery...

I just came back from Germany yesterday, I had lumbar surgery just over a

week ago Saturday.

Fusion usually leads to more fusions, unfortunately, if you can get a disc

replacement that is by far the best way to go certainly....

Here in the states most of the disc replacements are clinical trials, where in

Germany they have been doing the disc replacements for years...

In the states they do not do multi-level disc replacements where also in

Germany they do...

If you can go to Germany to get it done your success and recovery will

be significantly better....

I don't know if you know about fusion vs the disc replacement be the results

are significantly different.

Personally fusion was not an option I wanted to take cause they say once you

have them you will continue to end up with more going up the spine, as it

puts more stress on the lower and upper discs.

Please do your homework on this as the other phrase that is used is " fusion

should be the last resort "

Check out StenumHospital.com and see what they are doing and what they

share. Also, they work with blue cross/ blue shield I heard....

If anything I can strongly express consider disc replacement not fusion

especially when you have kids to raise you need to have an active life again

and with the disc replacement you will.

I believe it was the Lord that directed me to Stenum....and now having gone

I have no doubts about it.

Blessing,

Joanne

New here

Howdee,

I am new to this group. After svereal MRI's, CT Scans I realized that

I have a orthopaedist surgeon's playground for a spine. I have DD, bulging

discs, spondylosis, osteochondroma, a cyst and stenosis (severe in the cervical

area with some cord flattening). My Ortho doc wants the osteochondroma and

stenosis

evaluated by a surgeon. I have appointments at the end of this month. Hopefully

I can put off surgery for a year as I am a single Dad with four kids at home.

I'll have a driver at home next summer. Have any of you tried chiropractic and

or non-surgical disc decompression

with any success? Is there a general consensus on the best ani-inflammatory or

anything for pain relief? Has anyoone tried Benfotiamine for tingling sensation?

Any reponse would be appreciated. God bless us all. Ivan

August 3, 2008

I know the numbness in the hands, and the headaches from hell very well Bill.

God bless you, I hope you can find the path, I had plates and fusions done at

c3 & 4 level done, in 03, I regret it now as I was told there was no reversal, but

I hope I managed to save my lumbar I got the flex rods placed last year. It

still did very little for the pain, and now my left foot is numb with no hope of

recover.

Good luck and (May your path be true)

geo

From: Joanne Shively <thruhiseyes1>

Subject: Re: New here

spinedisorderssuppo rtgroup@gro ups.com

Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 4:08 PM

Hi Ivan,

Are they saying you need surgery?

Are they suggesting fusion?

Where are the Drs. taking this?

Blessings to you,

Joanne

New here

Howdee,

I am new to this group. After svereal MRI's, CT Scans I realized that

I have a orthopaedist surgeon's playground for a spine. I have DD, bulging

discs, spondylosis, osteochondroma, a cyst and stenosis (severe in the cervical

area with some cord flattening). My Ortho doc wants the osteochondroma and

stenosis

evaluated by a surgeon. I have appointments at the end of this month. Hopefully

I can put off surgery for a year as I am a single Dad with four kids at home.

I'll have a driver at home next summer. Have any of you tried chiropractic and

or non-surgical disc decompression

with any success? Is there a general consensus on the best ani-inflammatory or

anything for pain relief? Has anyoone tried Benfotiamine for tingling sensation?

Any reponse would be appreciated. God bless us all. Ivan

August 3, 2008

Ivan,

As I have said, I know the headaches from hell, I had the nerve freeze in the

back of my head done in 95, it relieved the pain somewhat but I still have to

watch out for flickering light. that will get you quickly

geo

From: Joanne Shively <thruhiseyes1>

Subject: Re: New here

spinedisorderssuppo rtgroup@gro ups.com

Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 4:08 PM

Hi Ivan,

Are they saying you need surgery?

Are they suggesting fusion?

Where are the Drs. taking this?

Blessings to you,

Joanne

New here

Howdee,

I am new to this group. After svereal MRI's, CT Scans I realized that

I have a orthopaedist surgeon's playground for a spine. I have DD, bulging

discs, spondylosis, osteochondroma, a cyst and stenosis (severe in the cervical

area with some cord flattening). My Ortho doc wants the osteochondroma and

stenosis

evaluated by a surgeon. I have appointments at the end of this month. Hopefully

I can put off surgery for a year as I am a single Dad with four kids at home.

I'll have a driver at home next summer. Have any of you tried chiropractic and

or non-surgical disc decompression

with any success? Is there a general consensus on the best ani-inflammatory or

anything for pain relief? Has anyoone tried Benfotiamine for tingling sensation?

Any reponse would be appreciated. God bless us all. Ivan

August 3, 2008

Thank you all for your compassion and personal stories. I simply have nothing

to do but my homework until I talk to the surgeons. Right now it seems my

chiropractor

wants to " adjust " me, the spine specialist wants to give me injections and pills

and I expect the surgeons will want to operate. Russian roulette. I would like

to hear from any others who have similar problems. God Bless. ivan

On Sun, 8/3/08, Lambert <glambert28@...> wrote:

From: Lambert <glambert28@...>

Subject: Re: New here

spinal problems

Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 6:27 AM

Ivan,

As I have said, I know the headaches from hell, I had the nerve freeze in the

back of my head done in 95, it relieved the pain somewhat but I still have to

watch out for flickering light. that will get you quickly

geo

From: Joanne Shively <thruhiseyes1>

Subject: Re: New here

spinedisorderssuppo rtgroup@gro ups.com

Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 4:08 PM

Hi Ivan,

Are they saying you need surgery?

Are they suggesting fusion?

Where are the Drs. taking this?

Blessings to you,

Joanne

New here

Howdee,

I am new to this group. After svereal MRI's, CT Scans I realized that

I have a orthopaedist surgeon's playground for a spine. I have DD, bulging

discs, spondylosis, osteochondroma, a cyst and stenosis (severe in the cervical

area with some cord flattening). My Ortho doc wants the osteochondroma and

stenosis

evaluated by a surgeon. I have appointments at the end of this month. Hopefully

I can put off surgery for a year as I am a single Dad with four kids at home.

I'll have a driver at home next summer. Have any of you tried chiropractic and

or non-surgical disc decompression

with any success? Is there a general consensus on the best ani-inflammatory or

anything for pain relief? Has anyoone tried Benfotiamine for tingling sensation?

Any reponse would be appreciated. God bless us all. Ivan

August 9, 2008

Don't be to put by the surgeons attitude... Most are like that.. Maybe they

have to be??

But mine have been pretty cold and indifferent..

Tom

In a message dated 8/9/2008 3:30:11 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

sulaws9@... writes:

Hello,

I'am Sue from Dallas.I came here to connect with others who are

experiencing some of the same things I'am.I have had severe neck pain

for about 5 years.I'am 50 years old.The pain was 70% less for about

an 18 month period when I wasn't working.I recently went back to work

full time.I sit at a desk all day.I work 9 hours a day and all of

that time is spent looking down at papers or data entry into the

computer.Recently the pain has become so bad that I went back to the

Doctor who told me a year and a half ago I needed surgery.He

basically said I could fix it or keep thinking about it.He is a very

prominent Ortho Surgeon,but I don't care for him.He's very cool and

dismissive.Everythidismissive.Everythi<WBR>ng including telling me my

through his staff.It's like he is too good to talk to his patients

directly.He is recommending an artificial disc relacement which his

PA says is not FDA approved or two fusions.Dhe says,he says the

artificial disc will take the pressure off the other two discs and we

will just " watch them " to see if I need more surgery down the

road......Not sure I like the sound of that.

The pain is definetely exacerbated by me looking down for any period

of time.I could work in the yard alll day and it wouldn't hurt me

near as bad as sittting at my desk all day.The only relief I have

gotten in 3 months was with a dose pak,as soon as it was done the

pain was back.

My MRI in a nut shell said the following:

Straightening and diffuse reversal of the usual cervical

lordosis.Retrolisthlordosis.Retrolisth<WBR>esis of C5 and C6 with diminish

and C6.Left greater than right uncinate arthropathy and hypertrophy

with foraminal stenosis on the left.This could potentially cause a

left C6 Radiculopathy.

There is minor posterior osseous ridging and disc bulging at C4-

C5.Facet hypertrophy and arthropaty on the left.Small midline disc

protusion at C7-T1.

The pain is in my neck left and right scapular regions,greater on the

left,headaches,left,headaches,<WBR>and numbness to my elbows.I have an

20th for a second opinion.I'am so tired of living with this.I never

have a day without pain.I would gladly do the surgery if if gave me

relief.My crappy insurance is another story.......relief.My crappy ins

Thanks,

Sue

**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?

Read reviews on AOL Autos.

(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017

)

August 10, 2008

At 05:29 PM 8/9/2008, you wrote:

>Hello,

>I'am Sue from Dallas.I came here to connect with others who are

>experiencing some of the same things I'am.I have had severe neck pain

>for about 5 years.I'am 50 years old

Welcome Sue. My name is Dave. I've had 3 back surgeries and 1 on my

neck. I have 2 levels fused on my neck. This was done to relieve

neck and shoulder pain. For me the operation was a failure. I had

many follow ups, multiple procedures, 2nd opinions, injections,

acupuncture, healing services, physical therapy, you name

it. Nothing has worked. I've been on Multiple meds including opiates

since Jan of 2000. I can relate to your neck and shoulder pain. Mine

is in my neck and mainly my right scapula. The numbness and pain many

times runs down my right arm all the way to my fingers. I was told

that sitting and working on a PC is one of the worst things to

agitate it. It does. I also get dizzy and nauseous if I look down

too much. One thing I have found for relief if an Ice pack, wrapped

in a light towel running up and down from my shoulder blade to my

neck. I use several a day, and 2-3 fresh one through the night. I

just got a fresh one 10 minutes ago. Besides pain, I have a real

problem with insomnia. Massage also helps. My wife uses a handheld

percussion massager made by Homedics. Finally I also get some relief

from a TENS nerve stimulator. Welcome to the group, you'll find many

here who understand and may be able to offer helpful

information. Dave, moderator

August 10, 2008

On Aug 10, 2008, at 10:40 AM, yitro_53 wrote:

> Hello. My name is . I am new here. I was diagnosed with

> lupus/Sjogren 6 years ago. Also have Hashimoto and Raynaud's. About

> 2 !/2 months ago, I started having urinary tract infections and was

> diagnosed with interstitial cystitis. I asked my naturopath to do an

> ANA as I felt like I was in a " flare " , and it was over 480. I was

> having more joint and muscle pain. Subsequently, she told me that

> she had been thinking about me and thought that I should be tested

> for lyme. As I have studied symptoms on-line, it looks like there

> are several that I have that could be lyme-related that I have always

> attributed to my autoimmune illnesses. My labs were drawn on Tuesday

> and sent to IgenX. I have some questions. How long does it take to

> get results back from this lab?

Not long. Under a week, usually.

> I am finding the posts here in the group to be a bit unsettling.

> Such as no insurance coverage? I am

> on disability, and have Medicare. Finances are a challenge, and I

> don't know what I will do as far as medical care for this.

There are two groups at war with each other over how to treat Lyme.

One group, the infectious disease doctors, say 4-6 weeks of

antibiotics should be all it takes. On the other hand, the hundreds of

doctors who've actually been treating Lyme for decades know that it's

a lot more complicated than that, and believe treatment can go on for

a year or two.

The insurance companies, of course, have sided with the ID doctors,

because they want to promote a cheap cure. The two groups together

have also made life hell on the Lyme clinicians, many of whom have

simply quit the business because they were tired of being dragged up

by state medical boards. The ones that remain very often don't take

insurance, so they can do what they know works without getting

harassed by the insurance companies. It's the only way they can stay

in business.

(Interestingly, the first week in May, a case in the Connecticut

Supreme Court was settled when the court forced the national ID group

to admit that its guidelines were written by a group with unacceptable

conflicts of interest -- many involving insurance companies -- and

that they had rejected a lot of sound science out of hand as a result.

They'd also pressured dissenting members of the team to quit. This is

the first time in US history that a court has penalized a board

writing medical treatment guidelines for being so slanted as to

constitute malpractice. A big victory for Lyme docs, and their

patients.)

> How do

> group members deal with this, does anyone have Medicare, and how does

> this work? (I am in the Seattle area).

The way around this is to get in tight with a sympathetic GP. Many of

the tests and drugs your Lyme doc will order can be routed through

your insurance by your GP. Most LLMDs are used to doing this if you

ask -- they'll write up notes telling your doc what they want ordered,

and why. The LLMD's fees, and some of the more exotic tests, will not

be eligible for this; but the ones that can be will sure take a load

off your budget.

Since you're in Seattle, I can enthusiastically recommend my LLMD --

Dr. Marty Ross at the Healing Arts Partnership. Website is here:

<http://www.thehealingartspartnership.net/

>

LLMDs are expensive; but they can save you a lot of money over the

long run. Many of us have tried all kinds of stuff, cheap and

expensive, on our own --- and the results tend to be hit-and-miss. An

LLMD will guide you to treatments that are cost-effective and far more

likely to work, so you don't throw your money down ratholes.

> When I look back on possible

> exposures, the only one that I can think of occurred over thirty

> years ago. I was in a youth hostel in Japan (Tokyo). Got a " bite "

> there on my leg, it was the size of a small dinner plate and raised

> like a " hive " . But I did not get sick with the autoimmune illnesses

> until years later. Can one be infected with lyme, and have it be in

> some state of dormancy?

Only about a quarter of us ever remember having a rash. You could have

been bit at any time, and not known it. And yes, the disease has a

cystic phase that can lie dormant for years in the body. In my case, I

was probably bit as a child in the High Sierra, and my symptoms

started in my mid-20s and grew worse by fits and starts over the next

10 years.

Sara

August 10, 2008

Hello ,

I have IC and coinfections too. I tested positive for Bartonella and

Babesia, and not yet for Lyme. I don't know what an ANA is. It doesn't

take long to get results back from Igenex. If you are negative that

doesn't mean you don't have Lyme. The test is only 14-50% accurate. I

don't know why they bother to do the test. I got the positive

coinfections test from Fry Labs. Possibly the Bartonella has a big role

in the IC, is the latest I have heard. My husband I both have it, and we

didn't know it for about 15 years. He tested positive for Lyme at

Igenex. I think they say more men test positive they don't know why -

maybe women's immune systems are more complex.

Cathleen

yitro_53 wrote: