Paramedic Pay

[Guest guest]

Your comments are well-taken Mr. . Perhaps I was too brief. I

put the overtimelawyer.com site out there for folks who indicated

that they did not know or understand their rights to overtime pay as

EMS employees. While I modeled some of the site after the flsa.com

site, it provides much more explanation on the issue of whether or

not someone is exempt. There seemed to be some confusion on that

front in some of the posts. Some of the readers may find the

discussion helpful in assessing their own situations. No

advertising. Just providing information to help clarify a very

confusing area of the law.

J. Braziel

Partner

& , LLP

> Okay, but let's call a spade a spade. - is the firm

> running ccemsovertime.com (look at the contact us page, it lists the

> very email address this came from). In fact, a lot of their

verbiage

> appears to be cut-and-paste or slightly altered from the flsa.com

web

> site. While I don't have a problem with them commenting in this

forum

> on the issues, and their take, a brazen " dropped link

advertisement " is

> probably not appropriate, IMHO. Especially without a signature or

other

> indication that the " poster " was in fact someone listed as a

contact on

> the " ccemsovertime.com " web site, and linked

to " overtimelawyer.com " .

>

> You want to comment? Fine.

>

> You want to advertise? Go somewhere else.

>

> And sign your posts, please. Especially when you're supposed to

present

> yourself like a professional. We don't need the image of " lawyers

> hiding under the covers. " We've already got GG to worry about...

> <grin>.

>

> Mike

>

> > Re: paramedic pay

> >

> >

> > www.overtimelawyer.com

> >

[Guest guest]

What a pleasure to see an attorney helping EMS folks (besides the noted

counselors on the list).

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

All outgoing email scanned by Norton Antivirus and guaranteed " virus free "

or your money back.

Re: paramedic pay

> > >

> > >

> > > www.overtimelawyer.com

> > >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well worded Mr. Braziel, but I wonder... Why do I still smell smoke?

Regards,

Donn

~ Re: paramedic pay

~ > > >

~ > > >

~ > > > www.overtimelawyer.com

~ > > >

~ >

~ >

~ >

~ >

~ >

~ >

[Guest guest]

The DOT has regulations for the amount of hrs. a truck driver can drive in a 24

day.

Re: paramedic pay

Is that considered a " sleep agreement " ?

It's sad that for what we have to know, do and with the little sleep and food we

do it on, we don't get paid like a nurse or even an aide in some hospitals!

[Guest guest]

I second Donn's idea. Send in your application for membership in EMSAT,

the Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas. Become a member,

start attending board meetings when and where you can, participate in

the EMSAT discussions, learn and share. I'm not special, I'm just

somewhat more informed than I used to be. You can be too...

Mike

> RE: Re: paramedic pay

>

>

>

> Mike,

>

> It's people who get " excited " , angry, frustrated and can

> intellegently put their concerns out that are the back bone

> of making a difference. People like you!

>

> Ever thought of running for office? You are exactly what EMS

> needs to move in a positive, professional direction.

>

> Until we ALL act professional, look professional etc., we

> will still be considered " ambulance drivers " , " medical taxis " .

>

>

>

> Annie {}

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Comments inline...

> Re: paramedic pay

>

>

> Your comments are well-taken Mr. . Perhaps I was too brief. I

> put the overtimelawyer.com site out there for folks who indicated

> that they did not know or understand their rights to overtime pay as

And in that light, you did a great service. It's actually nice to know

there's someone we can call that doesn't think were all a) firefighters

or agreeing to work for no pay. Lack of resources is one of the

biggest problems in the EMS community, and you've filled a void. My

slant was that instead of a blind link, and introduction would have been

much more appropriate - introducing yourself. We've got several

attorneys on-list who contribute regularly, and having more certainly

never hurts. I can confidently say that there has never been anything

close to an authoritative source on FLSA/wage and hour issues on the

list. It appears there is now... Welcome!

> EMS employees. While I modeled some of the site after the flsa.com

> site, it provides much more explanation on the issue of whether or

> not someone is exempt. There seemed to be some confusion on that

> front in some of the posts. Some of the readers may find the

And I believe there still is. We've had a long-running discussion

on-list about the various laws and statutes that allow, disallow or even

mention EMS in regards to whether or not it's required, how it's

authorized and the like. It's all very, very confusing. Add to that

mix the variety of employers (municipal, combined agency, ESD, private

3rd party, non-profit 3rd party, hospital run, joe's backyard

bambulance, etc.) and it gets more confusing, because some laws change

depending on the status of the provider/employer.

> discussion helpful in assessing their own situations. No

> advertising. Just providing information to help clarify a very

> confusing area of the law.

The link itself provided no information. This email, explaining the

link, provided a lot. We just had an issue here recently with someone

posting (over and over and over) about items for sale. We try to

self-police the amount of " spam " on the list w.r.t. commercial postings,

so blind links to commercial websites are generally frowned upon. Links

with introductions and summaries are almost always welcome!

> J. Braziel

> Partner

> & , LLP

Mike , LP

[Guest guest]

Check's in the mail. And Thanx for the suggestion.

Annie {}

[Guest guest]

Mike, You stated the situation perfectly...and it's

why I'm getting out of EMS. I started 8 years ago,

working for a service that paid us by a fluctuating

work week (the more hours you worked, the less your

hourly rate was). But I was living a drream and

helping people, and we didn't know how to fight it. I

went on to work at several other services that paid

pennies, but I was helping people. I did without

insurance on me and my kiddo because it was a choice

between insurance or rent. I worked 72-96 hour shifts

when my finances caught up to me. But I was helping

people.

But slowly, it started to dawn on me that I was being

a martyr. My kiddo and I were living in the ghetto,

the shifts semmed to be getting longer, and my body

couldn't recover from a 48 as fast as it could...all

for $9.50/hour. I saw friends that had worked in the

same city for 20+ years, to be sent away to try to

find new careers when the city didn't need them

anymore without so much as a pat on the back. At one

point, a service I was at started to have some payroll

issues, and employees were being shorted on their

checks every payday. Instead of fixing the admitted

shortage within days, the service would tell employees

that it would be on their next check in 2 weeks. I

decided I had had enough when most employees, however

unhappy, would fold and agree to be paid whenever it

was convienent! I realized that there was a mindset,

or fear, among providers that wasn't going to get

better any time soon. I was injured OTJ in December,

and it doesn't look like I'll be able to get back on a

truck in the near future. (Not to mention, the

company I was working for at the time " released " me,

and I was welcome to reapply when I healed...Bye bye

senority!) So I'll go back to school and find

something else that won't kill me while I help those

who need it.

I hope EMSAT, or anyone else can try to change the

mindset. But I fear that the mentality of " always

being there for the patient, no matter what hell I'm

being put through " is deeply ingrained in a lot of EMS

people out there. I certainly don't mean to say that

all EMS providers are like that, nor are all services

out to screw their employees. There is some great

leadership in Texas that I think can get the job done,

but I'm too old to wait it out.

I once read that there's an Eastern religion that

believes that if you dedicate your life to helping

others, that your soul is chained to the Earth with

gold chains, and you will never reach Nirvana. I

wonder if that's true...

Keep up the good fight, and thanks all for letting me

vent...

Connie

--- " Mike , LP " wrote:

> Then I'm not sure that would hold up under a

> challenge from the DOL and

> TWC. If it's worth it to you, check into it. Most

> places that do this

> " just get away with it. " Too many of us are willing

> to work for minimum

> wage or accept generally substandard work agreements

> just to be in EMS.

> Until we demand respect, pay and benefits, nothing

> will change.

>

> There's already an EMS shortage in Texas. It's a

> crisis that only we

> know about, for the most part. Imagine how quickly

> the public would

> react if all of a sudden 20% of the EMS workforce

> walked off the job

> because of substandard pay and benefits, and more

> places were left with

> no coverage, or waiting 45+ minutes for an ambulance

> (911). Imagine if

> nursing homes had *nobody* to turn to when patients

> needed transport -

> if dialysis clinics had no means of shuttling

> patients back and forth.

>

> Sure, some patients would fare for the worse - but

> how else are people

> going to realize what they don't have unless it's

> gone? And don't go

> " ethical " on me - look at the trauma surgeons in NV,

> or the OB/GYN docs

> in FL. In the case of NV, they LEFT. A trauma

> surgery program SHUT

> DOWN because of premiums for malpractice insurance

> that were UNPAYABLE.

> And now look at the reforms they're getting. Sure,

> in that interim,

> some people that needed service died because it

> wasn't available where

> they needed it. But they didn't have to -

> legislators could have

> listened EARLIER and prevented it. It's not the

> doctor's fault... And

> it wouldn't be " our " fault if we left either... And

> you can damn sure

> bet the public would listen then.

>

> " Thank you for calling 9-1-1. For fire, press 1.

> For police, press 2.

> For EMS, get in your car and drive yourself, or call

> 555-1212 for Yellow

> Cab - we no longer have an ambulance. Good luck,

> and thanks for calling

> 9-1-1. " Uh-huh. That would last, what, days?

> Hours? Emergency

> funding would appear from NOWHERE to get EMS folks

> back on the streets,

> and legislation would appear in HOURS to prevent it

> from happening

> again.

>

> But wait, I keep forgetting, we don't have a solid

> voice, much less ANY

> group putting forth plans and ideas. Bob Kellow is

> about the closest it

> comes to actually mitigating problems with EMS in

> Texas, and he's pretty

> much limited himself to email responses. I guess we

> all like making

> less than the folks at 's, and working 60 hours

> a week to earn

> welfare and food stamps. That's why we went to

> school, and what we

> aspired to. Oh, yeah, and we get to help people.

> That is, while

> there's still a " we " left to help them...

>

> Mike

>

> > Re: paramedic pay

> >

> >

> > I know in my case that we are not allowed to leave

> durring

> > " sleep time " . There is no on call pay where I work

> at. We

> > are not paid durring " sleep time " unless we get a

> call.

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 8/4/02 10:01:35 PM Central

> Daylight Time,

> > mreed911@... writes:

> >

> >

> > > Subj:RE: paramedic pay

> > > Date:8/4/02 10:01:35 PM Central Daylight Time

> > > From: mreed911@... (Mike , LP)

> > > Reply-to: <A

> >

>

HREF= " mailto: " >@yahoogroup

> > s.com</A>

> > > To:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > But I'm not completely sure these are legal,

> strictly

> > speaking. Can

> > > you leave the premises during this " sleep time " ?

> If so, then you

> > > could be paid " on-call " pay. If not, you're an

> on the

> > clock employee.

> > > At least that's how it would stack up in a

> challenge. Otherwise,

> > > firefighters everywhere would lose money on

> " sleep time. "

> > >

> > > Or, is it that they wouldn't accept such an

> arrangement in

> > the first

> > > place? It doesn't change until you make it

> change.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Donn,

Thanks for the info, I DO consider myself fortunate.

Like many out there I too had my time when I would have done this job for

free, some 12+ years ago. There are aspects of this job (joys and

relationships) that you just can't get anywhere else. However, my talents

and skills given to me are not free. I have a family to provide for and this

is my career, hence decent pay is mandatory (as it should be for all

services).

You are absolutely right, we owe our pay scale to the aggresiveness of our

Director and the ability of A/TCEMS to raise the bar in pay. I thank them

all the time for that! Not all services in our area have been able to keep

up either (specifically the only private 911 provider in Austin/Metro area

comes to mind).

If your looking to relocate...contact us..we specifically look for a

combination of new and experienced medics when we hire, btw it will probably

not be until late next year (this is the joy of no turnover) and a tight

budget this time around.

http://wilcoems.org/

take care,

Re: paramedic pay

> ~ > >

> ~ > >

> ~ > > >

> ~ > > > I, too, work for a transfer service and totally sympathize with

the

> ~ > lower

> ~ > > pay. My partner, for the last four years, has decided to

> ~ reenlist in the

> ~ > > army to get a better pay scale and more secure job. Transfer

services

> ~ are

> ~ > in

> ~ > > the business to make money.When you work 24 hr. shifts, you save

them

> ~ > money.

> ~ > > They feel that the " trade off " is that you only work 2-3 days a

week.

> ~ But

> ~ > if

> ~ > > you work at a transfer service that is busy or is back up for a

major

> ~ > > service, then you are making them more money than the 12 hr. or " day

> ~ > crews "

> ~ > > while busting your butt. Night shifts have more potential for the

high

> ~ > > dollar transfers such as ACLS, PALS and MICU. So, you may run

several

> ~ > calls

> ~ > > during the day for dialysis/BLS and then run 4-5 calls from

2300-0700

> ~ that

> ~ > > are more severe. And, we do all this for a $12.00/hr salary that

can't

> ~ > > support our families without another job. We asked for it however. I

> ~ don't

> ~ > > remember anyone telling me I'd be rich or well rested 25 yrs

> ~ ago. when I

> ~ > got

> ~ > > into this mess.

> ~ > > >

> ~ > > >

> ~ > > >

[Guest guest]

And don't forget about Wes. He's turned on us too!

LOL

--- " Mike , LP " wrote:

> Okay, but let's call a spade a spade.

> - is the firm

> running ccemsovertime.com (look at the contact us

> page, it lists the

> very email address this came from). In fact, a lot

> of their verbiage

> appears to be cut-and-paste or slightly altered from

> the flsa.com web

> site. While I don't have a problem with them

> commenting in this forum

> on the issues, and their take, a brazen " dropped

> link advertisement " is

> probably not appropriate, IMHO. Especially without

> a signature or other

> indication that the " poster " was in fact someone

> listed as a contact on

> the " ccemsovertime.com " web site, and linked to

> " overtimelawyer.com " .

>

> You want to comment? Fine.

>

> You want to advertise? Go somewhere else.

>

> And sign your posts, please. Especially when you're

> supposed to present

> yourself like a professional. We don't need the

> image of " lawyers

> hiding under the covers. " We've already got GG to

> worry about...

> <grin>.

>

> Mike

>

> > Re: paramedic pay

> >

> >

> > www.overtimelawyer.com

> >

>

=====

" It's been said that a firefighter's first act of bravery is taking the oath to

serve. And all of them serve, knowing that one day they may not come home. "

- President Bush

October 7, 2001

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

We have the same issue here in beaumont.

Their are 5 privates and one city run service.

Try deciding which one to play with. One service is guaranteeing 14 and

hour. But is having money problems. The competition in my 114,000+ area

is amazing.

Having been in the field for 7 years the pay is getting better. But it

takes time for things to change.

AJ

Beaumont

Just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side.

" D.E. " wrote:

> ,

>

> Sorry to butt in. I realize this was addressed to Jane, but I feel

> compelled

> to comment.

>

> 12 bucks an hour is on the high side everywhere except for your area

> and

> some of the larger cities. Read the annual salary report printed in

> Texas

> EMS magazine and you will see what I mean. I guess Austin started it

> in your

> area, paying more and more. Your service had to keep up if you didn't

> want

> all your medics heading south. In Dallas and Houston and some other

> Texas

> cities the 911 service is fire-based and therefore paid union scale.

> But the

> transfer services in those cities pay little more than minimum wage.

> Ft.

> Worth uses the public utility model and farms EMS out to a contractor.

> I

> think it is Rural Metro this week. Maybe one of their medics will

> chime in

> and tell us what average pay is there, but I'll bet it isn't 12 bucks.

> There

> are medics all over this state still working for $7.00 / hour and

> under. 30

> some-odd counties in this state aren't willing to pay even minimum

> wage, nor

> will they fund the equipment for a volly service, so those counties

> have no

> EMS at all. My home is less than 100 miles from town. The county

> 3rd

> service here has three full-time medics working for under 20K annual

> salary.

> Such is the state of EMS in Texas.

>

> Consider yourself fortunate, .

>

> Regards,

> Donn

>

>

> ~ Re: paramedic pay

> ~

> ~

> ~ follow up......

> ~

> ~ Is $12.00 / hour considered high wages in your area, Jane? Forgive

> my

> ~ ignorance, I am employed in Central Texas and the pay scale is much

> ~ different then that.

> ~

> ~ Thanks,

> ~

> ~

> ~ Re: paramedic pay

> ~ > >

> ~ > >

> ~ > > >

> ~ > > > I, too, work for a transfer service and totally sympathize

> with the

> ~ > lower

> ~ > > pay. My partner, for the last four years, has decided to

> ~ reenlist in the

> ~ > > army to get a better pay scale and more secure job. Transfer

> services

> ~ are

> ~ > in

> ~ > > the business to make money.When you work 24 hr. shifts, you save

> them

> ~ > money.

> ~ > > They feel that the " trade off " is that you only work 2-3 days a

> week.

> ~ But

> ~ > if

> ~ > > you work at a transfer service that is busy or is back up for a

> major

> ~ > > service, then you are making them more money than the 12 hr. or

> " day

> ~ > crews "

> ~ > > while busting your butt. Night shifts have more potential for

> the high

> ~ > > dollar transfers such as ACLS, PALS and MICU. So, you may run

> several

> ~ > calls

> ~ > > during the day for dialysis/BLS and then run 4-5 calls from

> 2300-0700

> ~ that

> ~ > > are more severe. And, we do all this for a $12.00/hr salary that

> can't

> ~ > > support our families without another job. We asked for it

> however. I

> ~ don't

> ~ > > remember anyone telling me I'd be rich or well rested 25 yrs

> ~ ago. when I

> ~ > got

> ~ > > into this mess.

> ~ > > >

> ~ > > >

> ~ > > >

[Guest guest]

9.50 an hour?? For a Paramedic? I think I make that

now, and Im still just a waitress. Maybe I dont want

to continue on to get that P next to my name? I need

to support myself and 3 kids, but I really HATE being

a waitress!

I know Austin/ County EMS pays 45,000 a yr. Is

this unusual, or is it REALLY hard to get in there?

Carin Canfield EMT-B, Austin, TX

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It's unusual for Texas. It's also based on a modest amount of built-in

mandatory overtime (above the typical 52 hour work week).

" Hard " is a relative term, but they have a significantly more involved

hiring process than most agencies. It includes a written exam (multiple

choice/essays), a physical agility test and a psych profile, as well as

interviews. As such, many area agencies have followed suit.

I recently tested in San Marcos and they have a rather comprehensive set

of EKG strips that you interpret and suggest initial treatments for

(assuming the patient is symptomatic), as well as a written series of

exams and oral interviews.

MedStar in Fort Worth has a written test, and they do oral interviews.

IMHO, their paramedic-level exam was relatively easy, but then again,

I've got 8 years EMS experience and 2 years paramedic experience, and I

grew up around paramedics.

I'm sure someone from WilCo could bring us up to speed on their process,

as could Steve from AMR San .

Mike

> Re: Paramedic Pay

>

>

>

> 9.50 an hour?? For a Paramedic? I think I make that

> now, and Im still just a waitress. Maybe I dont want

> to continue on to get that P next to my name? I need

> to support myself and 3 kids, but I really HATE being

> a waitress!

>

> I know Austin/ County EMS pays 45,000 a yr. Is

> this unusual, or is it REALLY hard to get in there?

>

> Carin Canfield EMT-B, Austin, TX

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Ok,

Since Mike opened the door and I am the coordinator for our hiring

process...

We only accept applications from Paramedics with 2 years experience or more,

or graduate from a Nationally Accredited Paramedic Program, or graduate from

a program that did the majority of their clinical practice time with

on County EMS.

That being said, the process itself involves a written exam, written for the

experienced medic, physical (lifting and moving), static station (EKG

strips, give a diagnosis, treatment and why, Q & A), and the patient

assessment section. Then background checks are administered and candidates

are selected for Oral Interviews with an Interview board comprised of the

Medical Director and employees at various levels of the Chain-of-Command and

with various specialties in the system.

It is a very competitive process, but well worth it in the end.

I can't quote the starting salary for you but it is approx. $42,000 per

year, including only your built in OT while working 24/48 schedule.

Good Luck,

Lt. K. Wiseman

Hiring Process Coordinator

on County EMS

bwiseman@...

Re: Paramedic Pay

> >

> >

> >

> > 9.50 an hour?? For a Paramedic? I think I make that

> > now, and Im still just a waitress. Maybe I dont want

> > to continue on to get that P next to my name? I need

> > to support myself and 3 kids, but I really HATE being

> > a waitress!

> >

> > I know Austin/ County EMS pays 45,000 a yr. Is

> > this unusual, or is it REALLY hard to get in there?

> >

> > Carin Canfield EMT-B, Austin, TX

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

AJ,

Are these 5 private services offering decent benefits like the city of Beaumont?

Do all of these private services have progressive protocols, pay for training,

uniforms, etc. $14 and hour sounds great but if there are no benefits, 20 year

old protocols, no training offered, bounced paychecks, etc. who wants to spend

their career with that?? Also, the private services have no respect in that area

from the emergency room staff. Many of those companies have come and gone over

the years so working full time for a private service there sounds a little risky

to me.

e, LP

[Guest guest]

The City of Beaumont has the same type hiring process. Written exam, phys.

agility, testing stations (including ACLS and Trauma scenario), oral

interview, and the requirement of ACLS and future completion of BTLS and PEPP

or PALS (within 60 days). Paramedic only and $39,500 starting salary (24/48)

built in OT on a 56 hour work week. Only one opening left (just filled 7).

Pretty much designed from Austin EMS hiring process. No transfers, 911 only.

Andy Foote

Manager

City of Beaumont EMS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/2002 7:24:41 PM Central Standard Time,

donn@... writes:

>

> Jane, you and I spoke once about how much we gave up to come back to our

> little towns. Don't you think it is worth it? People who grew up in the

> larger cities have no idea how good life can be. I love it here.

>

>

I have to agree Donn and it is looking good to a lot of people that just

plain CARE. I think smalltown usa is a great way to raise kids and parents.

Andy

[Guest guest]

Jane,

Though we have never met, it comes across that you are one of those GREAT

bosses to work for. You understand that ALL of your employees have different

goals and needs in EMS.

Although it can be difficult, if your goal is to remain the " friend and the

boss " , keep that attitude and your employees will stay through thick and

thin. Not that it is easy, but they will bend over backwards to help you

build the best system possible.

I know because we have done that here because of the same attitude from our

Director. The old saying " People don't care how much you know until they

know how much you care " applies to the staff as much as it does to the

patients.

This is why medics have stayed with WilCo when the temptation was high to

leave. Turnover is zilch (which is a great game too) and the staff has the

desire to make it the best system possible.

Good luck,

Re: paramedic pay

> > ~

> > ~

> > ~ > In a message dated 8/4/2002 6:44:28 PM Central Standard Time,

> > ~ > jehill@... writes:

> > ~ >

> > ~ >

> > ~ > >

> > ~ > > Twelve dollars an hour???? Man, I wish my board would let me pay

my

> > ~ crews

> > ~ > > THAT!!!!

> > ~ > >

> > ~ > > Jane Hill

> > ~ > >

> > ~ >

> > ~ > Then do not, I repeat, do not let them know anything on the

> whereabouts

> > ~ that

> > ~ > The City of Beaumont EMS is located. Andy

> > ~ >

> > ~ >

> > ~ >

[Guest guest]

I can understand and respect that.

Christy

paramedic pay

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I work for a private service. I left a 24 hr

> > > > > shift to work a 12 hr

> > > > > > > shift because my hourly rate went up almost 5

> > > > > dollars an hour.

> > > > > > > Management says that your hourly rate is what it

> > > > > is, so if you work

> > > > > > > an extra shift for OT and you are on a 24 hr

> > > > > shift, your hr rate

> > > > > > > stinks.

> > > > > > > I have worked extra the last pay period, 122 hrs

> > > > > in 2 wk period,

> > > > > > > common on 24/48. My check was almost double from

> > > > > when I was on a 24

> > > > > > > hr shift with that hourly rate. I am not

> > > > > complaining, but what law in

> > > > > > > Texas says that a company can set a salary per

> > > > > year, but pay

> > > > > > > different rates when you work different shifts?

> > > > > Approx. 2920 hours

> > > > > > > per year for 24 hr shifts vs. 2184 hrs per year

> > > > > for 12 hr shifts. The

> > > > > > > company I work for (you don't sleep) we are to

> > > > > busy with transfers,

> > > > > > > 24 hr shifts get slammed. I just feel bad for

> > > > > the other guys on the

> > > > > > > 24hr shifts. I am staying on the 12hr shifts,

> > > > > 736 hrs per year less

> > > > > > > work with same pay, I can spend with family.

> > > > > Somebody tell me what

> > > > > > > labor laws or avenues that I can persue to look

> > > > > this up. Thank you

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

To clarify what was meant by this and to clam down a bunch of people

that I have a lot of respect for. The " people " that i referred to never

made it to the streets by themselves. We all have medics that fall into

this category.... I WAS NOT trying to cause or make the city of beaumont

look bad. I was replying to the message sent to me.

AJ EMT-P

Bruc e D Daley wrote:

> And which city run Paramedics might you be talking about that you

> wouldn't let work on your dog?

>

> Bruce

> On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:54:06 -0500 AJ writes:

> > The service I work for pays well. But the point I was making is that

>

> > in

> > our area pay is wide ranging. The city of beaumont just had a pay

> > increase. Then a new service out of Houston comes in and starts

> > Paramedics out at 14.00/hr. This service starts pulling good people

> > away

> > from the other 5 services. Then they have problems with pay... I

> > know

> > way does working for a Private or City run service affect the

> > " respect "

> > you get in the ed's. That comes from the individual that happens to

> > be

> > working on the truck.. I have worked in the Beaumont/ Port Arthur

> > area

> > my whole ems career. I have seen medics from the city run and

> > privates

> > that I would not let touch my dog. I also work in and ed so I see

> > both

> > sides...

> > Just because you work for a private service doesn't make you second

> > class....

> > WE all have bad apples working for us....

> >

> > AJ

> >

> > ambubag@... wrote:

> >

> > > AJ,

> > >

> > > Are these 5 private services offering decent benefits like the

> > city of

> > > Beaumont? Do all of these private services have progressive

> > protocols,

> > > pay for training, uniforms, etc. $14 and hour sounds great but if

> > > there are no benefits, 20 year old protocols, no training offered,

>

> > > bounced paychecks, etc. who wants to spend their career with

> > that??

> > > Also, the private services have no respect in that area from the

> > > emergency room staff. Many of those companies have come and gone

> > over

> > > the years so working full time for a private service there sounds

> > a

> > > little risky to me.

> > >

> > > e, LP

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well, I never said I was a " GREAT " boss. LOL I am sure I am far from it.

But I think my employees know that I sincerely care about each and every one

of them. They are the reason we are who we are and, without them, this

service in nothing. I make my share of mistakes, but I try very hard. And

I will never ask them to do something I won't or haven't done or won't do

with them. We laugh together and have fun and work hard together too. I

worked a code the other day with one of my new hands, and it went like

clockwork. It was sad too because the patient died anyway - but that is

life.

I hope to keep my good hands as long as I can keep them.

Jane

Re: paramedic pay

> > > ~

> > > ~

> > > ~ > In a message dated 8/4/2002 6:44:28 PM Central Standard Time,

> > > ~ > jehill@... writes:

> > > ~ >

> > > ~ >

> > > ~ > >

> > > ~ > > Twelve dollars an hour???? Man, I wish my board would let me

pay

> my

> > > ~ crews

> > > ~ > > THAT!!!!

> > > ~ > >

> > > ~ > > Jane Hill

> > > ~ > >

> > > ~ >

> > > ~ > Then do not, I repeat, do not let them know anything on the

> > whereabouts

> > > ~ that

> > > ~ > The City of Beaumont EMS is located. Andy

> > > ~ >

> > > ~ >

> > > ~ >

[Guest guest]

WilCo - we have ALL full-time positions filled. We currently have 5 PRN

" Pool " medics. Not sure when the next process will be since our budget is not

released until late August/September.

June Bug

[Guest guest]

96s... damn, we are not permitted to do more than 48 in a row [mandatory

12-hours off after] and then we cannot do > 96 in 7 day period. AND trust me,

they track that stuff here.

J-B

[Guest guest]

Having read the numerous complaints about paramedic pay, and agreeing

anecdotally that the quality of life for many medics is not " what it

used to be " , I decided to spend today comparing the pay conditions

between 1973 and 2001. I used 1973 because that was the date of the

first EMS Act.

In deriving the results, I included and compared: (1) federal income tax

rates (based on adjusted gross income after standard deductions and

personal exemptions for single individuals; the Consumer Price Index

(CPI) modifier between 1973 and 2001; and the inflationary index

multiplier between 1973 and 2001.

I used a standard 24/48 hour staffing pattern that would yield 121.331

shifts per year, where the employee is paid for all hours worked, plus

1.5x for all hours over 40 per week. No 16 hr. or 13 hr. + accumulated

sleep time, etc. was used.

Two tax variables were noted. the FICA rate in 1973 was 4.85% compared

to 7.65% in 2001. And, in 1973 the income tax rate was 15% up to >

$50,000.00, compared to 2001, which was 15% to $27,050.00 and 28%

between $27,050.00 and $65,500.00.

In the Ft.Worth area in 1973-74, the median paramedic hourly wage was

$2.60 for private companies. This rate produced an annual income of

$8,625.63, and a net after-tax income of $6,935.08. In today's dollars,

after applying the CPI modifier (.251) and the inflationary multiplier

(4.75) the following results were derived.

In order to achieve equivalent pay to a paramedic in 1973-74, today's

paramedics must earn $44,428.00 per year, or $13.35 per hour for all

hours worked in a 24/48 staffing pattern. And, that just equals the pay

from 1973, with no incremental gains.

Needless to say, in the past 30 years paramedics have not only been

unable to maintain compensation equity, but have actually lost ground

over the period. My estimate is an average loss of around 35% when

compared to 1973 dollars.

This raises the question, " If paramedics and EMT's have lost ground,

then where has the mopney gone? " As you already know, I believe that

field personnel have unwittingly been subsidizing: technologies and

unwarranted capital equipment; administrative methods, hierarchy's and

systems that were never designed to yield material or measurable

results; and, layers upon layers external bureaucracy that have no

measurable impact on patient outcomes.

Remember this when you're strolling the exhibit area of the Texas EMS

Conference this Fall. When the salesman makes his pitch, keep in mind

that it's not your company's money that he is after. As you've just seen

- IT'S YOURS!

Bob Kellow

[Guest guest]

Bob,

BRAVO!

Now there's an article for Texas EMS Magazine!

E. Tate, LP

Tyler, Texas

--- Bob Kellow wrote:

> Having read the numerous complaints about paramedic

> pay, and agreeing

> anecdotally that the quality of life for many medics

> is not " what it

> used to be " , I decided to spend today comparing the

> pay conditions

> between 1973 and 2001. I used 1973 because that was

> the date of the

> first EMS Act.

>

> In deriving the results, I included and compared:

> (1) federal income tax

> rates (based on adjusted gross income after standard

> deductions and

> personal exemptions for single individuals; the

> Consumer Price Index

> (CPI) modifier between 1973 and 2001; and the

> inflationary index

> multiplier between 1973 and 2001.

>

> I used a standard 24/48 hour staffing pattern that

> would yield 121.331

> shifts per year, where the employee is paid for all

> hours worked, plus

> 1.5x for all hours over 40 per week. No 16 hr. or 13

> hr. + accumulated

> sleep time, etc. was used.

>

> Two tax variables were noted. the FICA rate in 1973

> was 4.85% compared

> to 7.65% in 2001. And, in 1973 the income tax rate

> was 15% up to >

> $50,000.00, compared to 2001, which was 15% to

> $27,050.00 and 28%

> between $27,050.00 and $65,500.00.

>

> In the Ft.Worth area in 1973-74, the median

> paramedic hourly wage was

> $2.60 for private companies. This rate produced an

> annual income of

> $8,625.63, and a net after-tax income of $6,935.08.

> In today's dollars,

> after applying the CPI modifier (.251) and the

> inflationary multiplier

> (4.75) the following results were derived.

>

> In order to achieve equivalent pay to a paramedic in

> 1973-74, today's

> paramedics must earn $44,428.00 per year, or $13.35

> per hour for all

> hours worked in a 24/48 staffing pattern. And, that

> just equals the pay

> from 1973, with no incremental gains.

>

> Needless to say, in the past 30 years paramedics

> have not only been

> unable to maintain compensation equity, but have

> actually lost ground

> over the period. My estimate is an average loss of

> around 35% when

> compared to 1973 dollars.

>

> This raises the question, " If paramedics and EMT's

> have lost ground,

> then where has the mopney gone? " As you already

> know, I believe that

> field personnel have unwittingly been subsidizing:

> technologies and

> unwarranted capital equipment; administrative

> methods, hierarchy's and

> systems that were never designed to yield material

> or measurable

> results; and, layers upon layers external

> bureaucracy that have no

> measurable impact on patient outcomes.

>

> Remember this when you're strolling the exhibit area

> of the Texas EMS

> Conference this Fall. When the salesman makes his

> pitch, keep in mind

> that it's not your company's money that he is after.

> As you've just seen

> - IT'S YOURS!

>

> Bob Kellow

>

>

>

=====

" It's been said that a firefighter's first act of bravery is taking the oath to

serve. And all of them serve, knowing that one day they may not come home. "

- President Bush

October 7, 2001

__________________________________________________