Re: struggling with anger about how it is

[Guest guest]

yes, giddy !! she sure does enjoy being the bully, the nasty person in

control !! it's scary and creepy to see that look

Jackie

Yes! The glint in the eyes. It's like a crazed animal who is out of control.

Sometimes she seems almost giddy.

[Guest guest]

Hoping and praying with you, . Pls keep us posted.

>

> , I like your take on God - really it's *God* after all, maybe He can

handle a little ranting, raving and being pissed off. I am feeling more

peaceful today though it will be a few weeks before I have a good idea on

whether my father has accepted the re-statement of the NC boundary. I can only

hope - pray.

[Guest guest]

Hoping and praying with you, . Pls keep us posted.

>

> , I like your take on God - really it's *God* after all, maybe He can

handle a little ranting, raving and being pissed off. I am feeling more

peaceful today though it will be a few weeks before I have a good idea on

whether my father has accepted the re-statement of the NC boundary. I can only

hope - pray.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you've already contacted the school district about this? Legally, you

have a right to pusue a 504 or IEP (if you are in the US, but I'm thinking I

remember you to be in Canada???). Kids' eduactions are protected under section

504 of the Americans with Disabilities Act, and an IEP (Individualized Education

Plan) is also an option that takes more work but gives greater leeway for

accomodations. My BPD 17 yo has a 504 and we are pusruing an IEP. It's just not

right that the school won't help. Try to find a support network for your area on

line. There are many who've already laid the groundwork and can offer good

advice and help. Alternately, you can see if the school district has an

advocate, hire your own advocate, or talk to a lawyer. Maybe that would get the

school to take some action... I know it is really hard though. Maybe you've

done all this already and are seeking still more avenues. My heart is with you

in this battle for your precious child.

Take care,

>

> As a parent, I am on the other side and let me tell you it isn't easy. I have

a son with a physical disability and it affects his writing. I also have

concerns that he has ADHD. The school will NOT help me. I've been to them

twice. They told me it is my fault he can't write because I told him there is

something wrong with his hand.

>

> The poor kid couldn't keep up writing in preschool and was made fun of. Of

COURSE I told him his hand works differently than others and it is more

challenging for him but he can do anything they can do with a little extra work.

I do not want my child's self esteem to suffer because he can't keep up in a

classroom. I want him to have the support he needs and deserves. And I'll keep

on fighting but it is really hard.

[Guest guest]

Parental neglect stories really upsets me. Here is my most memorable nada and

fada neglect story. On the morning of my grade 12 graduation my sister's horse

kicked me with both hooves on my left leg. I heard a very loud sound like a

gunshot when the horse kicked me. I think I had a hairline fracture of my femur

and tibia but my leg was never x-rayed so I don't know. I did get a tetanus

shot. I was in pain and looking back also in shock. Nada was very angry because

the stress of looking after me " might kill your father " who had had a heart

atack 6 months earlier. Nada was frantic about the possiblity of fada dying and

leaving her alone with 3 children she didn't want. Nada was a nurse and fada

was a doctor. NO ONE ever looked at my leg. I had to drive 20 miles by myself

on my graduation day to get to my school so that I could into my cap and gown

before the ceremony. Nada, fada and sibs follwed later.

I have photos of that day showing my left leg swollen twice the size of my

right leg. I cannot remember how I got home but I think my brother drove me in

my car. I was in so much pain that night I took 1 or 2 pain pills that I found

in the medicine cabinet. Fada came up to my room and asked me if I was alright.

I dared not say how I really felt because I feared nada's response so I said

that I was OK. (Under NO circumstances was I to upset my fada because " the

stress could kill him " . I had my orders).

I had to wear long pants for 6 weeks because I was black and blue fom my hip to

my ankle. Nada and fada never asked why I was in long pants over the summer,

even though they could see that I was limping.

Sheila

>

> they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas eye

> when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

> see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother to

> be towards her child.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

> perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

> defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

> the love and care lavished on me.

>

> In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

> neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets

> are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than

> nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps,

> if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

> for it.

>

> But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

> doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

> inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

> re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

> deal with it.

>

> That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

> psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of

> abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that

> they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care to.

> They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

> either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

> attention.

>

> The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

> water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

> obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series

> of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry to hear of your experience Sheila. My BPexhubby is suing me for

unsupervised access to our son (and to involve his PD'd parents AND reduce child

support, he doesn't want to pay more than $50 a week.) I vow to defend my child

with all that I have, even though I am terrified of BPex and I know that he will

lie in court (he lied on the court papers that I received, claiming to be a

model parent, not even CLOSE to reality.) I feel that, as a mother battling a

PD'd parent, I have so many different perspectives here. But my nada would not

have done ANY of this for ME. I was attacked by one of her dogs when I was about

12 years old. If she had not gotten home when she did he would have killed me

(it was a pitbull/dobie mix from an abusive background and he had attacked

several of our own dogs, crashing through a glass window to do so on some

occasions, and had killed neighborhood cats while being walked on a leash by my

younger brother... I still

remember his catlike screams when he could not pull the dog off of that cat.)

Nada locked the dog in a bathroom while she took me to the ER for stiches, they

had to pry the dog off of me with a " breaking stick " meant to pry open the dog's

jaws when it was " locked on " . When we got home from the hospital, the dog had

chewed it's way through the bathroom door and was loose in the house. i was

terrified. Nada took the dog to animal control for observation, which was 10

days. She actually insisted that she was going to bring that dog back home after

the quarantine period!!! She didn't care that the dog nearly killed me and had

attacked and killed other animals and I had a younger brother in the home too. I

made it clear that I would not accept that, I was terrified. She had NO

intention of protecting me! She acted like I was a terrible person for refusing

to let the dog come back home.

charlene~

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 9:04:47 PM

Subject: Re: struggling with anger about how it is

Parental neglect stories really upsets me. Here is my most memorable nada and

fada neglect story. On the morning of my grade 12 graduation my sister's horse

kicked me with both hooves on my left leg. I heard a very loud sound like a

gunshot when the horse kicked me. I think I had a hairline fracture of my femur

and tibia but my leg was never x-rayed so I don't know. I did get a tetanus

shot. I was in pain and looking back also in shock. Nada was very angry because

the stress of looking after me " might kill your father " who had had a heart

atack 6 months earlier. Nada was frantic about the possiblity of fada dying and

leaving her alone with 3 children she didn't want. Nada was a nurse and fada

was a doctor. NO ONE ever looked at my leg. I had to drive 20 miles by myself

on my graduation day to get to my school so that I could into my cap and gown

before the ceremony. Nada, fada and sibs follwed later.

I have photos of that day showing my left leg swollen twice the size of my

right leg. I cannot remember how I got home but I think my brother drove me in

my car. I was in so much pain that night I took 1 or 2 pain pills that I found

in the medicine cabinet. Fada came up to my room and asked me if I was alright.

I dared not say how I really felt because I feared nada's response so I said

that I was OK. (Under NO circumstances was I to upset my fada because " the

stress could kill him " . I had my orders).

I had to wear long pants for 6 weeks because I was black and blue fom my hip to

my ankle. Nada and fada never asked why I was in long pants over the summer,

even though they could see that I was limping.

Sheila

>

> they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas eye

> when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

> see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother to

> be towards her child.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

> perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

> defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

> the love and care lavished on me.

>

> In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

> neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets

> are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than

> nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps,

> if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

> for it.

>

> But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

> doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

> inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

> re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

> deal with it.

>

> That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

> psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of

> abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that

> they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care to.

> They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

> either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

> attention.

>

> The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

> water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

> obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series

> of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

>

> -Annie

>

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the Borderline

Mother†(Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Those stories upset me too, whether its physical neglect or the neglect of a

condition like dyslexia or the " not being aware " of sexual abuse being

perpetrated on one's own child; its all still neglect.

All of the parental neglect by pd parents is monstrous.

Its inhuman.

Your parents were well-educated people, Sheila, and what they did to you was

just... well, it was beyond thoughtless and cruel because it wasn't momentary,

it was deliberately ignoring their child's pain and suffering for weeks and

weeks. Terrorist detainees in prison aren't supposed to be treated that badly,

for Christ's sake!

The worst part of all this parental abuse is that the act of being neglected, or

battered, screamed at, humiliated, sexually abused, (etc., etc.) makes us feel

like *we must deserve it*. If we were good and worthy human beings our parents

would take care of us, wouldn't they? What *else* can the child possibly think?

Growing up with a mentally ill parent and a weak, enabling, or absent parent is

sort of like growing up in a tiny, creepy, diseased religious cult, sort of like

the Jim cult, where he isolated his followers in the middle of nowhere,

had them so brainwashed and afraid of upsetting him that they were literally his

slaves, he could do anything he wanted to them with impunity *and they all let

him* because they thought he was Their Spiritual Leader and He Could Do No

Wrong. They adored and feared him to the point of all committing mass suicide

together when he told them to.

That's what our dysfunctional, warped, narcissistic families of origin were like

on a smaller and slightly less terminal scale: just follow the Supreme Leader of

the family, cater to her, don't upset her, just do what she says or you are Bad

and will be Punished or Excommunicated.

That's not parenting, its just plain sick and evil.

-Annie

> >

> > they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas eye

> > when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

> > see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother to

> > be towards her child.

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

> > perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

> > defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

> > the love and care lavished on me.

> >

> > In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

> > neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets

> > are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than

> > nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps,

> > if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

> > for it.

> >

> > But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

> > doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

> > inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

> > re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

> > deal with it.

> >

> > That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

> > psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of

> > abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that

> > they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care to.

> > They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

> > either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

> > attention.

> >

> > The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

> > water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

> > obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series

> > of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry to be so crude, Charlene, but your nada was totally bat-shit crazy for

allowing her children and pets (and neighbors' children and pets) to be

continually endangered, attacked, mauled (and pets killed) by an uncontrollably

vicious dog!

That kind of distorted thinking: favoring a killer dog over the safety of

children... is simply beyond comprehension to me.

I am nearly speechless; words fail me. Your mother was stark raving mad!

You kids should have been removed from her " care " by CPS for your own safety.

Good Lord in Heaven!

-Annie

> >

> > they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas eye

> > when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

> > see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother to

> > be towards her child.

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

> > perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

> > defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

> > the love and care lavished on me.

> >

> > In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

> > neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets

> > are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than

> > nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps,

> > if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

> > for it.

> >

> > But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

> > doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

> > inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

> > re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

> > deal with it.

> >

> > That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

> > psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of

> > abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that

> > they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care to.

> > They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

> > either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

> > attention.

> >

> > The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

> > water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

> > obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series

> > of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the Borderline

Mother†(Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

I am just in shock reading about these nadas that would fault a child for

something like wearing glasses. I guess I am not really that surprised but just

horrified at yet another example of how selfish and cruel bpd parents can be.

Maybe this will help in your healing a little: my T told me that instead of one

child I have two- my actual daughter and me. She asked me if I imagine myself as

a child what age immediately comes to mind and I said 12. I don't know why 12

comes to mind- maybe that's when I starting acutely feeling/realizing nada's

ways were wrong. Anyway, she said picture what you would tell a 12 year old that

told you your own story. Obviously we would want to tell that child how none of

this was his/her fault, that they are important and worthy. All those things we

should say to ourselves.

I just want to reiterate that having a husband and child is not anchoring

until you are ready for them. But I very much feel what you mean- it's HARD to

not have family to lean on or someone special that has your back. Even with my

own little family I feel the loss of not having a solid FOO. I envy my friends

that do. My T told me that I must create a chosen family through close friends.

I feel I have done that but also that it's not quite the same. It makes me feel

very lonely at times. I hope that you will continue with therapy. I also did

tons but it wasn't until I found my recent T that I feel any real progress has

been made. The right T is crucial. What sucks is that I can't see her as much as

I would like b/c she doesn't take my insurance. =( But I go as often as I can.

> >

> > I was tested for glasses at age 17; I was a married and a new mom when this

happened. My husband took me to the doctor and the doctor tested my vision.

The doctor became very angry and demanded to know my parents' names and wanted a

phone number. I would not give them to the doctor. It was the first time

anyone displayed to me that something was not right between myself and my

parents. I was stunned that anyone would critize my perfect nada LOL

> >

> > When I walked out of the office with my new glasses, I thought I was up very

high and kept tapping the ground in front of me because I thought there was a

step I was standing on. It took a while for me to adjust and not feel vertigo

when I put on my glasses.

> >

> > blessings, mg

> >

> > > Another eerie similarity... its getting spooky now.

> > > Unfortunately I remember very clearly that my nada was also very upset

when it became clear that I had to have glasses during my 3rd grade year. It

had gotten to the point where I had to walk up close to see the teacher's

writing on the blackboard which annoyed her. I guess my teacher thought I was

being disruptive. I remember going to pick up my first pair of glasses and

wearing them outside as we walked back to the car, and I was enchanted and

nearly dancing because I could see *every leaf* on the trees, and I was so

happy! And my nada looked down at me with such disappointment and sadness

tinged with disgust and wouldn't speak to me the whole way home. She made me

ashamed that I needed glasses.

> > > I still hate that she made me feel so ashamed of something I couldn't

help; why would a mother be so damned cruel?

> > > And I know the answer: because she's freaking mentally ill and shouldn't

have been allowed to raise children, that's why.

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I met a great group of friends up here who are MY 'family' and are better to me

than any of my family ever was except for my father in his way who was not BPD.

Nada over the last three years has been very good to me in a financial sense but

that is because I am the only one left in her life who she can control with her

sizeable wealth which will be left to me and it looks like soon as she has

cancer and is dying. My saga with her is almost over and for the last three

months she has been absolutely angelic in her never verbally attacking me as she

always had in the past for my entire life.

No, it isn't the same to make friends your 'family' but we should feel blessed

to have THEM because without them we wouldn't have anyone or at least I

wouldn't.

Yes it IS very lonely most of the time, but I also know that once nada passes

which is expected next month, I will for the first time have MY life without any

of nada's games and the freedom to do whatever I wish and the money to do so

also. It is a blessing for having endured the life I did without going NC or

wounding my nada who really can't help herself from being that way even further.

Hold on to your new 'family' and be there for them just as they are for you. We

can do nothing else.

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I know, I would have put that dog down a long time before it attacked a person.

The dog had nearly attacked my mom on several occasions before it attacked me.

It hated to have it's nails cut and it tried to bite my mom's hands, viciously,

every time she trimmed his nails. She later denied that the dog had ever acted

aggressively towards her but I was THERE when it tried to attack her hands.

She'd put her hands behind her back and stand against a wall since her hands

were what it wanted to attack. The dog snarled and really tried to bite her.

Fortunately for her, the dog only associated her hands with his torment and

didn't just attack her outright. So, she knew for a LONG time that the dog was a

problem before it ever attacked me. The dog grabbed me by the back of the head

and worked his way around to my face. He punctured the front and back of my

shoulder as he worked his way around me. I had to put my hand in the dogs mouth

to get it off my face, he

tore a hole about an inch under my eye. I wouldn't have a face now if he hadn't

been willing to take my hand. And I knew, from years of dealing with these dogs,

not to scream. I had to remain calm because screams only excited them and they

would attacked more fervently. I also had to be rational and tell my mom where

the breaking stick was as she ran around screaming. My shirt was torn from the

shoulder wounds and it was drenched in blood. My hair was all bloody and most of

the stiches were to my scalp. My hand was injured but luckily was not broken. I

could not play instrument in band anymore though.

Many years of my childhood were spent dealing with aggressive dogs. I cannot

tell you how many dog fights I had to break up (between pitbulls, and they DO

" lock on " and have to be PRIED off of one another and pulled apart before they

go for each other again.) Even my mom had been bitten while trying to intervene

in dog fights. We tried to keep the " problem dogs " separated but when a dog is

determined to get through a door, or sometimes a glass window, it will

inevitably succeed. I dealt with so much death of pets, I dug so many holes to

bury pets that I cannot recall them all. It makes me sad now but I was

tramatized at the time. And the dog fights were horrifying. I always had to be

on alert for anyone screaming because it could come at any time and then I had

to jump out of bed, barely clothed, and find the " breaking stick " to come help

separate 2 very strong dogs who wanted to kill one another. But the death.... it

was so horrible. Animals were always

dying. Nada had too many and she blamed me because she couldn't say " no " if I

brought an animal home as a child. She brought home far more than I did and she

refused to get them spayed/neutered (I begged her to but she let them breed

instead.) And when there were puppies, we'd end up keeping half of them. She'd

sell a few and keep the rest. As a child, *I* was supposed to be the one with

restraint (and I often DID have more restraint than she did.) She insisted that

my younger brother take up certain tasks related to the animals care and when he

didn't do a good job at it, she'd scold him harshly. There are so many stories

that I could tell here that it would make a small book so I'll stop here.

charlene~

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 1:33:57 AM

Subject: Re: struggling with anger about how it is

I'm sorry to be so crude, Charlene, but your nada was totally bat-shit crazy for

allowing her children and pets (and neighbors' children and pets) to be

continually endangered, attacked, mauled (and pets killed) by an uncontrollably

vicious dog!

That kind of distorted thinking: favoring a killer dog over the safety of

children... is simply beyond comprehension to me.

I am nearly speechless; words fail me. Your mother was stark raving mad!

You kids should have been removed from her " care " by CPS for your own safety.

Good Lord in Heaven!

-Annie

> >

> > they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas eye

> > when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

> > see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother to

> > be towards her child.

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

> > perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

> > defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

> > the love and care lavished on me.

> >

> > In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

> > neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets

> > are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than

> > nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps,

> > if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

> > for it.

> >

> > But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

> > doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

> > inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

> > re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

> > deal with it.

> >

> > That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

> > psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of

> > abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that

> > they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care to.

> > They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

> > either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

> > attention.

> >

> > The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

> > water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

> > obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series

> > of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the

Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline

Parent,� (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you had to endure that kind of abuse. Hoarding behavior is

currently thought to be a symptom of obsessive-compulsive disorder and/or

obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, but however its categorized it is

extremely dysfunctional and dangerous behavior.

It usually means the hoarder and his or her family are living in extreme filth.

Even old magazines and newspapers left stacked for years will accumulate insects

and dust mites, eventually.

The worst manifestation of hoarding behavior is the animal hoarder. It seems

like every month or so another animal hoarder will make the news reports.

Neighbors complain of the stench, and it turns out that dead animal carcasses

are scattered around the home or yard buried under piles of maggot-riddled

feces, and the still-living animals are in poor health or dying from assorted

diseases and injuries.

Your nada wins the prize, though, for hoarding extremely dangerous animals that

she continued to keep even though she herself, her children, and other animals

were attacked. My own personal theory is that perhaps she projected her own

anger into the vicious dogs, so she wouldn't have to feel it herself. She could

then innocently sit back and allow the dogs to attack and maim other people

(such as yourself) or kill her neighbor's pets *for her* allowing nada to appear

just as shocked and horrified as anyone else would be and appear blameless.

" Oops! My dog ate your cat? Sorry! " or " Oops! My dog nearly tore my child's

face off... bad dog! "

Or perhaps it was more of a Munchausen-by-proxy situtation. She created the

situation in which severe injury would occur so that she could then nurse the

dogs back to health as the angelic dog-rescuer.

Whatever the underlying pathology, she was clearly way over in the deep end of

the crazy pool and should not have been allowed to have custody of you and your

brother. You're lucky you're not dead or brain-damaged from having a dog tooth

puncture your skull. And yes, the constant exposure to danger and the deaths of

animals that you had to bury must have been extremely traumatizing. But it was

your " normal. "

You poor kid.

-Annie

> > >

> > > they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas

eye

> > > when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

> > > see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother

to

> > > be towards her child.

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

> > > perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

> > > defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

> > > the love and care lavished on me.

> > >

> > > In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who

also

> > > neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and

pets

> > > are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other

than

> > > nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care,

perhaps,

> > > if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

> > > for it.

> > >

> > > But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

> > > doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

> > > inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

> > > re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

> > > deal with it.

> > >

> > > That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

> > > psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level

of

> > > abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level

that

> > > they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care

to.

> > > They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

> > > either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

> > > attention.

> > >

> > > The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

> > > water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

> > > obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous

series

> > > of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @ SEND HER ANY

POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to  " Understanding the

Borderline Mother� (Lawson) and  " Surviving the Borderline

Parent,� (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

oh, Charlene, that is just so awful !! having to worry about your life

every minute of every day !! how curel of your nada to keep these

aggressive dogs around knowing what they were capable of and what they had

already done !!

Jackie

> Annie,

> I know, I would have put that dog down a long time before it attacked a

> person. The dog had nearly attacked my mom on several occasions before it

> attacked me. It hated to have it's nails cut and it tried to bite my mom's

> hands, viciously, every time she trimmed his nails. She later denied that

> the dog had ever acted aggressively towards her but I was THERE when it

> tried to attack her hands. She'd put her hands behind her back and stand

> against a wall since her hands were what it wanted to attack. The dog

> snarled and really tried to bite her. Fortunately for her, the dog only

> associated her hands with his torment and didn't just attack her outright.

> So, she knew for a LONG time that the dog was a problem before it ever

> attacked me. The dog grabbed me by the back of the head and worked his way

> around to my face. He punctured the front and back of my shoulder as he

> worked his way around me. I had to put my hand in the dogs mouth to get it

> off my face, he

> tore a hole about an inch under my eye. I wouldn't have a face now if he

> hadn't been willing to take my hand. And I knew, from years of dealing

> with these dogs, not to scream. I had to remain calm because screams only

> excited them and they would attacked more fervently. I also had to be

> rational and tell my mom where the breaking stick was as she ran around

> screaming. My shirt was torn from the shoulder wounds and it was drenched

> in blood. My hair was all bloody and most of the stiches were to my scalp.

> My hand was injured but luckily was not broken. I could not play

> instrument in band anymore though.

>

> Many years of my childhood were spent dealing with aggressive dogs. I

> cannot tell you how many dog fights I had to break up (between pitbulls,

> and they DO " lock on " and have to be PRIED off of one another and pulled

> apart before they go for each other again.) Even my mom had been bitten

> while trying to intervene in dog fights. We tried to keep the " problem

> dogs " separated but when a dog is determined to get through a door, or

> sometimes a glass window, it will inevitably succeed. I dealt with so much

> death of pets, I dug so many holes to bury pets that I cannot recall them

> all. It makes me sad now but I was tramatized at the time. And the dog

> fights were horrifying. I always had to be on alert for anyone screaming

> because it could come at any time and then I had to jump out of bed,

> barely clothed, and find the " breaking stick " to come help separate 2 very

> strong dogs who wanted to kill one another. But the death.... it was so

> horrible. Animals were always

> dying. Nada had too many and she blamed me because she couldn't say " no "

> if I brought an animal home as a child. She brought home far more than I

> did and she refused to get them spayed/neutered (I begged her to but she

> let them breed instead.) And when there were puppies, we'd end up keeping

> half of them. She'd sell a few and keep the rest. As a child, *I* was

> supposed to be the one with restraint (and I often DID have more restraint

> than she did.) She insisted that my younger brother take up certain tasks

> related to the animals care and when he didn't do a good job at it, she'd

> scold him harshly. There are so many stories that I could tell here that

> it would make a small book so I'll stop here.

>

> charlene~

[Guest guest]

how sad. When I was in 4-H, I was in a riding accident.....I was the 2nd

rider on a horse with no saddle. We had ridden bareback, double before on

this horse, but for some reason he didn't want to do it that day...he

started bucking and we both went flying. I landed in a pile of broken up

concrete slabs. I nearly passed out from the pain. I couldn't get up

without passing out un less I did really really slowly. The fair grounds

nurse came over and told me to just get up. I told her I'd pass out, then

she left, never to be seen again. it took me an hour and a half to make it

35 feet. I called nada, who was an RN and worked at the hospital...she was

FURIOUS that this happened. I said next time I'll let the ambulance pick me

up and charge you the extra $$$...she didn't speak to me at all on the ride

to the hospital...then AT the hospital, in front of her friends, she turns

into June Cleaver with all the care in the world for my well being, until

they all left us in the room alone, then she was back to how stupid I was,

how I've messed her day up, and why did I bother calling her, I should have

had someone at the fair bring me to the hospital....I " only " had a very

bruised hip and thigh, and was given crutches for 6 weeks until I healed

up...and during that time I still had to do all my chores while nada sat and

watched TV !!

Sheila, I think it's just horrendous that your DR fada did nothing !!

whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath ??

Jackie

Parental neglect stories really upsets me. Here is my most memorable nada

and fada neglect story. On the morning of my grade 12 graduation my

sister's horse kicked me with both hooves on my left leg. I heard a very

loud sound like a gunshot when the horse kicked me. I think I had a

hairline fracture of my femur and tibia but my leg was never x-rayed so I

don't know. I did get a tetanus shot. I was in pain and looking back also

in shock. Nada was very angry because the stress of looking after me " might

kill your father " who had had a heart atack 6 months earlier. Nada was

frantic about the possiblity of fada dying and leaving her alone with 3

children she didn't want. Nada was a nurse and fada was a doctor. NO ONE

ever looked at my leg. I had to drive 20 miles by myself on my graduation

day to get to my school so that I could into my cap and gown before the

ceremony. Nada, fada and sibs follwed later.

I have photos of that day showing my left leg swollen twice the size of my

right leg. I cannot remember how I got home but I think my brother drove me

in my car. I was in so much pain that night I took 1 or 2 pain pills that I

found in the medicine cabinet. Fada came up to my room and asked me if I

was alright. I dared not say how I really felt because I feared nada's

response so I said that I was OK. (Under NO circumstances was I to upset my

fada because " the stress could kill him " . I had my orders).

I had to wear long pants for 6 weeks because I was black and blue fom my hip

to my ankle. Nada and fada never asked why I was in long pants over the

summer, even though they could see that I was limping.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Ashana - As the parent of an ADD kid, I want to thank you for your staunch

advocacy for kids with LD's.

It was painful to realize (when he was 4) that our son was having problems. It

was confusing and frustrating to look for " cures " and realize there aren't any -

and then, after doing all the reading and learning how to make structure and

consistency the pillars of his life, it turned into years of hard work, every

day, to construct the kind of environment in which he could learn and excel.

Note to Jo V. - The hard work pays off. ADHD doesn't equal " stupid " - it's not

a dead end, it's a speed bump. You and your daughter can accomplish great

things. Raising an ADD/ADHD kid has its challenges, but 'you guys' are smart,

capable, creative, (and usually very funny).

>

> As a teacher, I just have to express how much I just cannot stand parents who

refuse to acknowledge their kids need help or to pursue the help that's

available.  Telling a parent their kid may have an LD or ADHD/ADD is not

something I approach lightly or often, but I will do it if I feel very

concerned.  The thing is, as a teacher, there is very little I can do except

make very mild accomodations that probably don't help much.  I can ask for the

kid to be tested, but everyone and their yak needs to agree that the testing is

a good idea, and since the testing is expensive and having a kid labeled as LD

involves extra cost to the school, in most cases everyone and their yak does not

agree about the necessity of testing, and so it is usually an exercise in

futility for me to do ask.  Also, I think sometimes even well-meaning people

believe it's hard on a kid to be " labeled, " but what they don't seem to realize

is that the kid is already being labeled in

> much more harmful and less accurate ways.

>

> On the other hand, if a parent requests testing, the school is not allowed to

refuse.  They must conduct the appropriate tests, even if the parent is being

delusional and there are no signs at all of LD.

>

> And it means so much to the kid sometimes to know it's a LD and they aren't

just stupid or lazy.  Why a parent would let their kid suffer unnecessarily for

something that really can be managed much better if more is known, I just really

cannot grasp.  If the kid turns out not to have an LD, well, fine, nothing is

lost except a few hours.   But if they are, it can help so much just for them to

understand what is going on with them.

>

> Of course, in our cases, it's because our parents were mentally ill.  But it

just makes me so angry.

>

> Ashana

>

>

> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.

Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Real - Terrible handwriting is one of the ADD/ADHD " things " - my son's

handwriting is awful, so I started him on Mavis Beacon's Typing CD early on.

Also, a lot of adults use a fast form of printing - so when we got to third

grade cursive writing, I just told the teacher this was a losing battle - and we

should concentrate on the multiplication tables, which were also giving him fits

(rote memorization is another ADHD " thing " ). So now he has bad handwriting, but

can still take notes in his high school classes. No great loss, as far as I'm

concerned.

Those fine motor skills seem to develop a little later in ADHD kids.

But - if you live in the US, you can DEMAND that he be evaluated for an IEP -

and individualized education plan. You need a medical diagnosis, I think - but

your school's principal should be able to give you the forms. -

> >

> > As a teacher, I just have to express how much I just cannot stand parents

who refuse to acknowledge their kids need help or to pursue the help that's

available.  Telling a parent their kid may have an LD or ADHD/ADD is not

something I approach lightly or often, but I will do it if I feel very

concerned.  The thing is, as a teacher, there is very little I can do except

make very mild accomodations that probably don't help much.  I can ask for the

kid to be tested, but everyone and their yak needs to agree that the testing is

a good idea, and since the testing is expensive and having a kid labeled as LD

involves extra cost to the school, in most cases everyone and their yak does not

agree about the necessity of testing, and so it is usually an exercise in

futility for me to do ask.  Also, I think sometimes even well-meaning people

believe it's hard on a kid to be " labeled, " but what they don't seem to realize

is that the kid is already being labeled in

> > much more harmful and less accurate ways.

> >

> > On the other hand, if a parent requests testing, the school is not allowed

to refuse.  They must conduct the appropriate tests, even if the parent is being

delusional and there are no signs at all of LD.

> >

> > And it means so much to the kid sometimes to know it's a LD and they aren't

just stupid or lazy.  Why a parent would let their kid suffer unnecessarily for

something that really can be managed much better if more is known, I just really

cannot grasp.  If the kid turns out not to have an LD, well, fine, nothing is

lost except a few hours.   But if they are, it can help so much just for them to

understand what is going on with them.

> >

> > Of course, in our cases, it's because our parents were mentally ill.  But it

just makes me so angry.

> >

> > Ashana

> >

> >

> > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and

more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jackie, Your story sounds really awful too. I am very sorry to hear that you

had to endure you Nada's mental and emotional abuse when you really needed her.

Sadly, we both know now this is typical Nada behavior. What is it about Nada's

and Fada's who are in the medical profession that they cannot extend the same

level of care they give to their patients to their own children? I guess we

are a very BIG inconvenience to them when we are hurt or sick??

My Nada is very much the Queen archetype BPD and my Fada was the classic example

of an Enmeshed Co-Dependant personality.

I have to keep telling myself that I survived in spite of them not because of

them.

Sheila

>

> how sad. When I was in 4-H, I was in a riding accident.....I was the 2nd

> rider on a horse with no saddle. We had ridden bareback, double before on

> this horse, but for some reason he didn't want to do it that day...he

> started bucking and we both went flying. I landed in a pile of broken up

> concrete slabs. I nearly passed out from the pain. I couldn't get up

> without passing out un less I did really really slowly. The fair grounds

> nurse came over and told me to just get up. I told her I'd pass out, then

> she left, never to be seen again. it took me an hour and a half to make it

> 35 feet. I called nada, who was an RN and worked at the hospital...she was

> FURIOUS that this happened. I said next time I'll let the ambulance pick me

> up and charge you the extra $$$...she didn't speak to me at all on the ride

> to the hospital...then AT the hospital, in front of her friends, she turns

> into June Cleaver with all the care in the world for my well being, until

> they all left us in the room alone, then she was back to how stupid I was,

> how I've messed her day up, and why did I bother calling her, I should have

> had someone at the fair bring me to the hospital....I " only " had a very

> bruised hip and thigh, and was given crutches for 6 weeks until I healed

> up...and during that time I still had to do all my chores while nada sat and

> watched TV !!

>

> Sheila, I think it's just horrendous that your DR fada did nothing !!

> whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath ??

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Parental neglect stories really upsets me. Here is my most memorable nada

> and fada neglect story. On the morning of my grade 12 graduation my

> sister's horse kicked me with both hooves on my left leg. I heard a very

> loud sound like a gunshot when the horse kicked me. I think I had a

> hairline fracture of my femur and tibia but my leg was never x-rayed so I

> don't know. I did get a tetanus shot. I was in pain and looking back also

> in shock. Nada was very angry because the stress of looking after me " might

> kill your father " who had had a heart atack 6 months earlier. Nada was

> frantic about the possiblity of fada dying and leaving her alone with 3

> children she didn't want. Nada was a nurse and fada was a doctor. NO ONE

> ever looked at my leg. I had to drive 20 miles by myself on my graduation

> day to get to my school so that I could into my cap and gown before the

> ceremony. Nada, fada and sibs follwed later.

> I have photos of that day showing my left leg swollen twice the size of my

> right leg. I cannot remember how I got home but I think my brother drove me

> in my car. I was in so much pain that night I took 1 or 2 pain pills that I

> found in the medicine cabinet. Fada came up to my room and asked me if I

> was alright. I dared not say how I really felt because I feared nada's

> response so I said that I was OK. (Under NO circumstances was I to upset my

> fada because " the stress could kill him " . I had my orders).

> I had to wear long pants for 6 weeks because I was black and blue fom my hip

> to my ankle. Nada and fada never asked why I was in long pants over the

> summer, even though they could see that I was limping.

>

> Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Its a miracle that you didn't land in such a way that could have resulted in

permanent paralysis (like the late Reeve, who fell off his horse),

Jackie. The fair-grounds nurse should have been fired; I bet her job was only

to deny or minimize injuries to prevent the fairground from being held liable

for damages. I wish your 4-H leader had taken more responsibility, though,

since you were a minor under his/her supervision at the time; but I'm guessing

you had also been trained from birth to deny or minimize your needs or face

worse punishment.

You may have received a concussion when you hit, or had a drop in blood-pressure

from internal bleeding that caused you to pass out, or you were going into

shock. You were in desperate need of medical care; its truly a miracle that you

escaped worse damage or that your condition didn't worsen from neglect and

delay.

Its just incomprehensible to me that a mother who is a registered nurse (or a

father who is a doctor) would be guilty of such insensitive and cruel disregard

for her own daughter's injury, and yet would switch to the " concerned mother "

act the moment she had an audience. That's so indicative of an antisocial pd.

The more of these physical abuse and neglect stories I read, it just seems to me

that a lot of our nadas would rate really high on the Hare Psychopathy

Checklist. I'm just open-mouthed with shock over these stories.

-Annie

> >

> > how sad. When I was in 4-H, I was in a riding accident.....I was the 2nd

> > rider on a horse with no saddle. We had ridden bareback, double before on

> > this horse, but for some reason he didn't want to do it that day...he

> > started bucking and we both went flying. I landed in a pile of broken up

> > concrete slabs. I nearly passed out from the pain. I couldn't get up

> > without passing out un less I did really really slowly. The fair grounds

> > nurse came over and told me to just get up. I told her I'd pass out, then

> > she left, never to be seen again. it took me an hour and a half to make it

> > 35 feet. I called nada, who was an RN and worked at the hospital...she was

> > FURIOUS that this happened. I said next time I'll let the ambulance pick me

> > up and charge you the extra $$$...she didn't speak to me at all on the ride

> > to the hospital...then AT the hospital, in front of her friends, she turns

> > into June Cleaver with all the care in the world for my well being, until

> > they all left us in the room alone, then she was back to how stupid I was,

> > how I've messed her day up, and why did I bother calling her, I should have

> > had someone at the fair bring me to the hospital....I " only " had a very

> > bruised hip and thigh, and was given crutches for 6 weeks until I healed

> > up...and during that time I still had to do all my chores while nada sat and

> > watched TV !!

> >

> > Sheila, I think it's just horrendous that your DR fada did nothing !!

> > whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath ??

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Parental neglect stories really upsets me. Here is my most memorable nada

> > and fada neglect story. On the morning of my grade 12 graduation my

> > sister's horse kicked me with both hooves on my left leg. I heard a very

> > loud sound like a gunshot when the horse kicked me. I think I had a

> > hairline fracture of my femur and tibia but my leg was never x-rayed so I

> > don't know. I did get a tetanus shot. I was in pain and looking back also

> > in shock. Nada was very angry because the stress of looking after me " might

> > kill your father " who had had a heart atack 6 months earlier. Nada was

> > frantic about the possiblity of fada dying and leaving her alone with 3

> > children she didn't want. Nada was a nurse and fada was a doctor. NO ONE

> > ever looked at my leg. I had to drive 20 miles by myself on my graduation

> > day to get to my school so that I could into my cap and gown before the

> > ceremony. Nada, fada and sibs follwed later.

> > I have photos of that day showing my left leg swollen twice the size of my

> > right leg. I cannot remember how I got home but I think my brother drove me

> > in my car. I was in so much pain that night I took 1 or 2 pain pills that I

> > found in the medicine cabinet. Fada came up to my room and asked me if I

> > was alright. I dared not say how I really felt because I feared nada's

> > response so I said that I was OK. (Under NO circumstances was I to upset my

> > fada because " the stress could kill him " . I had my orders).

> > I had to wear long pants for 6 weeks because I was black and blue fom my hip

> > to my ankle. Nada and fada never asked why I was in long pants over the

> > summer, even though they could see that I was limping.

> >

> > Sheila

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh gosh! I could tell these stories all day and not run out of them!

My mother was a nurse first, went back and became a doctor. I had my tonsils

and aednoids removed when I was 12. It sure wasn't because I didn't need them

removed sooner that it happened so late. 12 was when they swelled to the point

that my father noticed I could no longer breath through my nose. I wasn't

allowed to chew with my mouth open at the table, so I would hold my breath and

chew fast. When I couldn't take it any longer (probably 6 months after I

started trying that method), I finally attempted to cover my mouth with my

napkin to avoid being in trouble for the open mouth. Dad saw that immediately

and demanded to know why I was doing that.

Mom was the 'good' mother finally and took me to the ENT the next week because

Dad made her. It was so bad, the ENT scheduled me for surgery 2 days later. My

tonsils were twice the size they were supposed to be, and my aednoids (which are

supposed to be half the size of the tonsils) were twice the size of my tonsils,

so 4x normal size.

I was 12. I had had strep throat on average 8 times every year since I could

remember, never getting antibiotics for it until I broke out in scarlet fever

and Dad noticed it. In the 20 years since they were removed, I've had strep

twice.

After the surgery, mom was super wonderful to her colleage the surgeon. But, as

soon as we were left alone in the room, she proceeded to berate me about how

much trouble I was and what a drama queen I was. She was going to leave me

alone at the hospital because she just couldn't be BOTHERED to stay there with

me. My surgery was a BIG deal. The surgeon was worried about me and wanted me

to stay overnight. I went home 4 hours after surgery so that mom wouldn't be

inconvienced. Of course, I had to be released because *I* insisted on going

home and threatened to walk home if I wasn't allowed to go. Darn tooting right!

I wasn't getting left alone overnight when my Dad was 2 miles away and thought

mom was staying with me but she was threatening to leave me alone!

I kid you not, to make me pay even more, the only " ice cream " she bought me was

orange, rasberry and lime sherbet....lots of citric acid that burns on those new

incisions and isn't supposed to be eaten for a week. Forget about soups or

soothing drinks, nothing but sherbet. Bless his heart, Dad was always dumb

about medical stuff and dutifully plied me with that sherbet trying to make me

feel better for days. She took away my Tylenol 3 as well and replaced it with

just tylenol. Afterall, I was just a drama queen and begging for narcotics I

didn't need.

There was the anaphylactic shock she left me struggling to breath overnight

with. There was a ripped tendon that was balled under my skin for years before

it atropied and shrunk. She put me on crutches for 2 weeks before she declared I

didn't even need those but the pain and limping was just me being a drama queen

again. Orthopeds have since told me since she didn't get me the surgery she HAD

to know I needed for it, if I ever tear that tendon again, they will actually

have to borrow healthy tissue from another part of my body and reconstruct it.

Two births beyond the one she locked me in the apartment where I wasn't

'allowed' to cry out in pain nor get pain meds and she blocked the hospital

staff to ensure it happened. I screamed bloody murder just to tick her off!

After that, I got wise and banned her from my births. One brother got a

concussion so bad he wasn't revivable for nearly 20 minutes. She stashed him in

a call room instead of checking him into the hospital and having neuro watch him

like she should have. Another brother went into Status Asthmaticus and had to

be life-flighted to a Children's hospital. She talked the doctors out of

intubating him because 'he was scared' and convinced them to release him early

because he was under the BEST care--his doctor mother. Of course, she then

hauled him out into blistering heat and made him stand in a wedding with nothing

to drink for hours that very day. But, he inconvienced her because he got sick

the weekend our other brother was getting married. He was 8, I'm just SO sure

he did that on purpose. She's been trying for 2 years to get the 13 year old

diagnosed with Bipolar or Schizophrenia and institutionalized. He was diagnosed

with ADHD and ODD, gee wonder why he might have Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

That brother is like a new child in the 6 weeks since he moved out with Dad and

away from that woman.

Seriously, I could tell more stories of her medical neglect of 8 children. The

stuff would make you want to puke. As a doctor, she knows better. And, if

another doctor ever notices, then she's instantly a different mother, so

concerned and caring and sweet. But she continues to do it just the same!

Johanna

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I hope you get to share some of these atrocities in the court battle over

custody and visitation. She should not have unsupervised time with these kids.

I'm so sorry for all the terrible abuse she inflicted on you. Your gift to your

sibs is that you know the truth and can use it to save another generation from

the same horrors.

M.

>

>

> Oh gosh! I could tell these stories all day and not run out of them!

[Guest guest]

Just a few thoughts on the handwriting thing..when I taught spec. ed. I worked

with a lot of students with learnind disabilities, ADD/ADHD, mental health

issues, etc. One of the things I found was that handwriting was always an issue

for the general ed teachers. In the grand scheme of things - who cares?!? I

allowed my students to type and use laptops in class. Younger kids were

encouraged to use either use a computer or use big thick pencils. The larger

pencils helped with their grip and ability to move the pencil. Motor skills are

developmental. Not all kids develop at the same time. I would think that it

would be acceptable for a high school student to have a tableau or mini laptop

to take notes on in school. There are so many tools available.

As a teacher, I was not allowed to tell a parent that I suspected ADD/ADHD or

anything else, I merely suggested that the child seemed to experiencing

difficulty in school and being evaluated by either a private psychologist or the

educational psychologist may be beneficial. I would then offer to refer them to

the school support team if the parent was in agreement.

Not all children will qualify for an IEP, but many will qualify for a 504 or

safety net that will provide support and modifications. As a parent you can make

an appointment with the school admin and request a formal evaluation. I would

hope that by the time it got to that point, someone would have referred the

student to a CSE group or student support team for evaluation.

Abby

> > >

> > > As a teacher, I just have to express how much I just cannot stand parents

who refuse to acknowledge their kids need help or to pursue the help that's

available.  Telling a parent their kid may have an LD or ADHD/ADD is not

something I approach lightly or often, but I will do it if I feel very

concerned.  The thing is, as a teacher, there is very little I can do except

make very mild accomodations that probably don't help much.  I can ask for the

kid to be tested, but everyone and their yak needs to agree that the testing is

a good idea, and since the testing is expensive and having a kid labeled as LD

involves extra cost to the school, in most cases everyone and their yak does not

agree about the necessity of testing, and so it is usually an exercise in

futility for me to do ask.  Also, I think sometimes even well-meaning people

believe it's hard on a kid to be " labeled, " but what they don't seem to realize

is that the kid is already being labeled in

> > > much more harmful and less accurate ways.

> > >

> > > On the other hand, if a parent requests testing, the school is not allowed

to refuse.  They must conduct the appropriate tests, even if the parent is being

delusional and there are no signs at all of LD.

> > >

> > > And it means so much to the kid sometimes to know it's a LD and they

aren't just stupid or lazy.  Why a parent would let their kid suffer

unnecessarily for something that really can be managed much better if more is

known, I just really cannot grasp.  If the kid turns out not to have an LD,

well, fine, nothing is lost except a few hours.   But if they are, it can help

so much just for them to understand what is going on with them.

> > >

> > > Of course, in our cases, it's because our parents were mentally ill.  But

it just makes me so angry.

> > >

> > > Ashana

> > >

> > >

> > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and

more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

What a narcissistic, psychopathic monster your mother is. It makes me

physically ill to read these stories; and she's a doctor as well.

She should be disbarred or whatever it is they do to drum doctors out of town

and take away their license to practice medicine. Its just so ghastly. I sure

hope you and your dad can rescue these kids.

-Annie

>

>

> Oh gosh! I could tell these stories all day and not run out of them!

>

>

> My mother was a nurse first, went back and became a doctor. I had my tonsils

and aednoids removed when I was 12. It sure wasn't because I didn't need them

removed sooner that it happened so late. 12 was when they swelled to the point

that my father noticed I could no longer breath through my nose. I wasn't

allowed to chew with my mouth open at the table, so I would hold my breath and

chew fast. When I couldn't take it any longer (probably 6 months after I

started trying that method), I finally attempted to cover my mouth with my

napkin to avoid being in trouble for the open mouth. Dad saw that immediately

and demanded to know why I was doing that.

>

>

>

> Mom was the 'good' mother finally and took me to the ENT the next week because

Dad made her. It was so bad, the ENT scheduled me for surgery 2 days later. My

tonsils were twice the size they were supposed to be, and my aednoids (which are

supposed to be half the size of the tonsils) were twice the size of my tonsils,

so 4x normal size.

>

>

>

> I was 12. I had had strep throat on average 8 times every year since I could

remember, never getting antibiotics for it until I broke out in scarlet fever

and Dad noticed it. In the 20 years since they were removed, I've had strep

twice.

>

>

>

> After the surgery, mom was super wonderful to her colleage the surgeon. But,

as soon as we were left alone in the room, she proceeded to berate me about how

much trouble I was and what a drama queen I was. She was going to leave me

alone at the hospital because she just couldn't be BOTHERED to stay there with

me. My surgery was a BIG deal. The surgeon was worried about me and wanted me

to stay overnight. I went home 4 hours after surgery so that mom wouldn't be

inconvienced. Of course, I had to be released because *I* insisted on going

home and threatened to walk home if I wasn't allowed to go. Darn tooting right!

I wasn't getting left alone overnight when my Dad was 2 miles away and thought

mom was staying with me but she was threatening to leave me alone!

>

>

>

> I kid you not, to make me pay even more, the only " ice cream " she bought me

was orange, rasberry and lime sherbet....lots of citric acid that burns on those

new incisions and isn't supposed to be eaten for a week. Forget about soups or

soothing drinks, nothing but sherbet. Bless his heart, Dad was always dumb

about medical stuff and dutifully plied me with that sherbet trying to make me

feel better for days. She took away my Tylenol 3 as well and replaced it with

just tylenol. Afterall, I was just a drama queen and begging for narcotics I

didn't need.

>

>

>

> There was the anaphylactic shock she left me struggling to breath overnight

with. There was a ripped tendon that was balled under my skin for years before

it atropied and shrunk. She put me on crutches for 2 weeks before she declared I

didn't even need those but the pain and limping was just me being a drama queen

again. Orthopeds have since told me since she didn't get me the surgery she HAD

to know I needed for it, if I ever tear that tendon again, they will actually

have to borrow healthy tissue from another part of my body and reconstruct it.

Two births beyond the one she locked me in the apartment where I wasn't

'allowed' to cry out in pain nor get pain meds and she blocked the hospital

staff to ensure it happened. I screamed bloody murder just to tick her off!

After that, I got wise and banned her from my births. One brother got a

concussion so bad he wasn't revivable for nearly 20 minutes. She stashed him in

a call room instead of checking him into the hospital and having neuro watch him

like she should have. Another brother went into Status Asthmaticus and had to

be life-flighted to a Children's hospital. She talked the doctors out of

intubating him because 'he was scared' and convinced them to release him early

because he was under the BEST care--his doctor mother. Of course, she then

hauled him out into blistering heat and made him stand in a wedding with nothing

to drink for hours that very day. But, he inconvienced her because he got sick

the weekend our other brother was getting married. He was 8, I'm just SO sure

he did that on purpose. She's been trying for 2 years to get the 13 year old

diagnosed with Bipolar or Schizophrenia and institutionalized. He was diagnosed

with ADHD and ODD, gee wonder why he might have Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

>

>

>

> That brother is like a new child in the 6 weeks since he moved out with Dad

and away from that woman.

>

>

>

> Seriously, I could tell more stories of her medical neglect of 8 children.

The stuff would make you want to puke. As a doctor, she knows better. And, if

another doctor ever notices, then she's instantly a different mother, so

concerned and caring and sweet. But she continues to do it just the same!

>

>

>

> Johanna

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.

>

http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HY\

GN_faster:082009

>

>

[Guest guest]

Now, do remember that most of y'all seem to be mentioning a child or two for

NADA to play these games with. Mine had 10 kids to play these games with. Its

made for a LOT of games over the years. Gotta spread the insanity about,

afterall.

Johanna

To: WTOAdultChildren1

From: monicaanne63@...

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:58:58 +0000

Subject: Re: struggling with anger about how it is

I hope you get to share some of these atrocities in the court battle over

custody and visitation. She should not have unsupervised time with these kids.

I'm so sorry for all the terrible abuse she inflicted on you. Your gift to your

sibs is that you know the truth and can use it to save another generation from

the same horrors.

M.

>

>

> Oh gosh! I could tell these stories all day and not run out of them!

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.

http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HY\

GN_faster:082009