Re: struggling with anger about how it is

[Guest guest]

,

The resilence for me is sometimes fleeting. This is just so hard.

They were are parents- not strangers. They were to love and nuture us.

I live in the constant pain of 2 thoughts going on in my mind- the constant

tape- from nada, always love and take care of your mother.

Then I have the thought this woman is mentally ill and she hurts you.

Why some of us were able to move in a direction of a family, children-

whatever- honestly I don't know. I got pregnant with my daughter- I often feel

if that wouldn't have happened I would have never left my parents and gotten

married. It was my blessings- at the time though it was embarrassing and hard to

deal with being pregnant and not married.

What you are experiencing is not self-pity. You are self-evaluating- we

all do it. Our lives have not been easy and this craziness has effected so much

of our lives.

The man I really loved- and felt such joy with was a man I meant in

college. Nada hated him and told me my father would kill himself if I married

him. I blindly disregared my feelings and left him. Never even questioned what

was wrong with that choice- they said it was so- so it was.

Starting dating a man I knew from my teenage years- loved him, but not

like the first man- nada hated him again- but this time I got pregnant- or I

would have walked too. They have instilled such pain- guilt, and doubt into our

souls...I now question so much.

Some days are so much better then others. You are a wonderful person-

I work on each day- in this present moment I can have- fill in the blank. You

can and do have so much. You are a successful adult- and screw what they have

taught you in those critical tapes- they are faulty tapes- what do you know for

sure.

The compassion you have to members on this board- means you have the makings of

a great parent.

I am doing some rambling here-I hope you know you have such value and

hope.... sending you a BIG HUG!!!

malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " climberkayak " wrote:

>

> Do any of you struggle with being mad that your mentally ill parent(s) is your

parent? I mean in an existential way. I have two, TWO f****d up parents. I

know I'm not alone in that, but I find it so hard to bear sometimes. Sometimes

I fear for my sanity in the face of it. Unlike many here I was not as

resilient. I've been unable to marry and have a lot of social difficulties that

have caused me problems in the workplace too. Basically my adult life has had

moments of great success, but I have trouble maintaining it. I never got the

tools. When I fail I hit the concrete hard, no support net. I try, I've done

tons of therapy, but it's never enough. Then my fada who I am NC with pops out

of nowhere like an evil jack-in-the-box when I'm already overwhelmed with the

more constant stress of my nada's side of the family. If I'd managed to marry

and have kids, it would anchor me I think but instead I feel so vulnerable to

them. Like I can't quite succeed at being an adult and it makes me weaker in

dealing with them. Sorry if this seems like a self-pitying rant - I'm pretty

low tonight.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

- I hope a night's sleep lets you wake up feeling better. You said you

" hit the concrete hard " when you fail - but you've had great successes. Perhaps

you can construct a way to let your successes cushion the fall when you fail (as

we all do). Here's what I mean: my son was diagnosed with ADD early on, and

his first years of school were very difficult. He'd get discouraged, and so

would I - it looked hopeless there for a while. So every time he brought home a

" good behavior " certificate or a perfect attendance sheet, or anything at all

that praised him, I started putting those things in a binder. When he was

feeling down (and I have to admit, I did this too) - I'd pull his " Award Book "

off the shelf and we'd go through it, talking about how proud we felt each time

he accomplished something. Then he'd feel better about his abilities and we'd

go tackle the current problem again. Over the years, he has accumulated more

-and more important - awards, and his self-esteem is pretty good for a kid who

has to work twice as hard as his peers to do well in school.

Is there a way for you to remind yourself of your successes so that you can run

a " new tape " when you feel like a failure? Maybe hang diplomas on the wall, or

put pictures of those successes in your room.

You said you've had lots of therapy - has any of it been focused on teaching you

to read body language so you feel more comfortable in social settings? I know

therapists do this for kids - maybe a kind of " instructional " therapy could help

you with that.

Finally - please don't feel that being married and having kids is a

be-all/end-all, or that it would " anchor " you - in reality, it could cause lots

more problems. I think there are plenty of us who have been " blessed " with

husbands and kids - who wish, once in a while, that we could be out from under

all those obligations. It doesn't mean we don't love them, but it would be nice

to have some time off and put ourselves first, sometimes. -

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " climberkayak "

wrote:

>

> Do any of you struggle with being mad that your mentally ill parent(s) is your

parent? I mean in an existential way. I have two, TWO f****d up parents. I

know I'm not alone in that, but I find it so hard to bear sometimes. Sometimes

I fear for my sanity in the face of it. Unlike many here I was not as

resilient. I've been unable to marry and have a lot of social difficulties that

have caused me problems in the workplace too. Basically my adult life has had

moments of great success, but I have trouble maintaining it. I never got the

tools. When I fail I hit the concrete hard, no support net. I try, I've done

tons of therapy, but it's never enough. Then my fada who I am NC with pops out

of nowhere like an evil jack-in-the-box when I'm already overwhelmed with the

more constant stress of my nada's side of the family. If I'd managed to marry

and have kids, it would anchor me I think but instead I feel so vulnerable to

them. Like I can't quite succeed at being an adult and it makes me weaker in

dealing with them. Sorry if this seems like a self-pitying rant - I'm pretty

low tonight.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning, . How are you feeling today? Any better? I want you to know

that your kindness and compassion on this board always touch me. I have deep

respect and admiration for you and look forward to reading your posts. You seem

to be a very kind and loving person, and I'm sure you are valued by those who

know you.

I think the basics of what I want to say to you boil down to this: everyone has

struggles, and most everyone works very hard to make it look as if they do not.

And we believe them. Yes, we may have had more than our share of crappy

parenting and unfair conditions under which to be raised. I think though that we

sometimes look around and see all the 'happy people' and don't realize that they

are working so hard to hide a lot of pain and difficulty. I don't mean to sound

condescending to your struggles; in fact quite the opposite. I know you have

been thru your own personal hell. I also think that many of your struggles are

shared by others who simply put other-worldly amounts of effort into hiding that

fact. They may not be KOs, but their fears and failures are certainly felt

acutely by them. I think you are very courageous to know yourself (so few people

really do), to acknowledge your struggle, and to live in it.

Having said all that, I also think that some days it is good and even necessary

to call out those hard things and take a good long look at them, then sit down

with a carton of ice cream and a big spoon and just cry for a while. It's

important. You cannot ignore those feelings away. You must sit with them every

now and then to know that they will not kill you, but it's okay to feel sad over

the losses they are tied to.

Having a husband and family does not fix things. In fact, it can make them much

worse. My 1st husband was so lacking that he had an affair and left me with 3

small kids. To this day, he still sees himself as the victim. My 2nd husband was

truly a good man, but after 6 1/2 years of marriage, he died unexpectedly. So

there are no guarantees for finding what you need outside of your own skin. It's

a lot of hard work either way, it really is. But you are worth the risk and

struggle and work. You are also worth having a good cry of empathy over. Just

please remember that everyone is fighting a battle, and there is no such thing

as the perfect life. It's all very relative in so many ways. There are those

who've had much worse struggles than I, and also those who've had it a lot

easier. We are each responsible first for our own hearts I believe. And that is

no small task. Maybe, after you have taken the time you need for this current

grief, you can look objectively at what might help you not feel so vulnerable to

your parents. It's a long process, full of baby steps. Perhaps when this strong

emotion passes, you can step back a bit and think more clearly. Right now, it

seems you just need to feel. Just my thoughts to take or leave.

Take care friend,

>

> Do any of you struggle with being mad that your mentally ill parent(s) is your

parent? I mean in an existential way. I have two, TWO f****d up parents. I

know I'm not alone in that, but I find it so hard to bear sometimes. Sometimes

I fear for my sanity in the face of it. Unlike many here I was not as

resilient. I've been unable to marry and have a lot of social difficulties that

have caused me problems in the workplace too. Basically my adult life has had

moments of great success, but I have trouble maintaining it. I never got the

tools. When I fail I hit the concrete hard, no support net. I try, I've done

tons of therapy, but it's never enough. Then my fada who I am NC with pops out

of nowhere like an evil jack-in-the-box when I'm already overwhelmed with the

more constant stress of my nada's side of the family. If I'd managed to marry

and have kids, it would anchor me I think but instead I feel so vulnerable to

them. Like I can't quite succeed at being an adult and it makes me weaker in

dealing with them. Sorry if this seems like a self-pitying rant - I'm pretty

low tonight.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do know exactly what you mean. I too have two F'd up parents and no

husband/children...so no support net should I fail...which I do sometimes.

Its really scary and overwhelming sometimes. But then I think...OK...having a

husband and kids isnt EXACTLY a guarantee that everything will always be OK and

that there will always be someone to catch my fall. I see plenty of f'd up

unhappy married people out there and to some of them the grass looks a hell of a

lot greener over my septic tank. Doesnt always make me feel better about what

looks to me like a heap of dead grass, but it helps most of the time.

As for feeling grounded and anchored...again Im not sure marriage and children

is the answer. I think that feeling comes from within and that even people that

are married and have kids sometimes feel lost and disconnected and vunerable to

forces beyond their control.

I guess the point Im trying to make is that feeling strong and grounded and

connected is a feeling that originates in innerspace...not outer. Its very hard

to get there...to feel within yourself that you belong and have a right to

happiness and success...especially given that we've all suffered child abuse

but...it is...at least for me...the goal.

Hugs to you

Jen

>

> Do any of you struggle with being mad that your mentally ill parent(s) is your

parent? I mean in an existential way. I have two, TWO f****d up parents. I

know I'm not alone in that, but I find it so hard to bear sometimes. Sometimes

I fear for my sanity in the face of it. Unlike many here I was not as

resilient. I've been unable to marry and have a lot of social difficulties that

have caused me problems in the workplace too. Basically my adult life has had

moments of great success, but I have trouble maintaining it. I never got the

tools. When I fail I hit the concrete hard, no support net. I try, I've done

tons of therapy, but it's never enough. Then my fada who I am NC with pops out

of nowhere like an evil jack-in-the-box when I'm already overwhelmed with the

more constant stress of my nada's side of the family. If I'd managed to marry

and have kids, it would anchor me I think but instead I feel so vulnerable to

them. Like I can't quite succeed at being an adult and it makes me weaker in

dealing with them. Sorry if this seems like a self-pitying rant - I'm pretty

low tonight.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes. I have no support net and I *DO* have a child and an ex husband (BP/APD.)

It is much worse to deal with this alone, fighting for the rights of my young

son against a BPD " man " without a real support system than just being alone.

Nada set me up for this, of course. If I had a safe place to go then I could

have escaped an abusive marriage years ago. But my mom never was a safe person.

If not for my son, I'd have NO contact with nada. But because I have no

co-parent, I am forced to deal with nada so I can work and care for my child.

Nada is nothing compared to my son's dad. But I have been set up for a lot of

failures due to nada. I cannot say " no " to men in certain situations because I

was groomed by pedophiles to be " the good girl " and keep their secret and do as

told. Nada reinforced this. I was not supposed to be difficult or need anything

and nada was not a trusted confidant when I was a child so I learned to just do

as instructed and not bother

her with it. Apparently, drinking only makes the situation worse for me. Guys

take advantage of me when I am drunk. I don't drink often, which leaves me even

more vulnerable to it, but the part of my brain that resists just shuts down

after some liquor, especially when I have been pressured into drinking too much

(peer pressure.) Amongst friends, I thought I would be OK but apparently even

friends will take advantage. No, alcohol had nothing to do with BPex but my

inability to firmly say " NO! " did. I tried to edge out of the relationship when

I got a " funny " feeling, with no solid reason to back out, and then I became

trapped when he became attached to me and refused to let go (to the point of

terrorizing me to stay, forcing me to get pregnant, etc.) My body has never been

my own, others have used me most of my life and BPex was the worst of all of

them and when I DID get to the point of saying " NO! " he took it anyway. If not

for my past with nada and

multiple pedophiles in my childhood teaching me that I could not firmly say

" no " and stick to it, I would not have wound up dealing with a sociopath who

still has access to me because he forced me to get pregnant with the INTENTION

of trapping me. I barely got out alive from that situation and all nada can

think about is herself because she " has to know " . She has no life of her own so

she continues to feed off of mine when she can. So I think I have a lot to be

angry about. I am having to train myself to be more assertive and less fearful

of men because of nada and BPex.

Oh, and I know very little about my dad. He killed himself when I was 12 but

nada kept me from him, telling me what a horrible person he was. Maybe he was as

f***ed up as she claims, as she herself appears to be, but she is a liar so I

cannot take her word for that. I will never know the truth OR my dad.

charlene~

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:44:33 PM

Subject: Re: struggling with anger about how it is

Yes, I do know exactly what you mean. I too have two F'd up parents and no

husband/children...so no support net should I fail...which I do sometimes.

Its really scary and overwhelming sometimes. But then I think...OK...having a

husband and kids isnt EXACTLY a guarantee that everything will always be OK and

that there will always be someone to catch my fall. I see plenty of f'd up

unhappy married people out there and to some of them the grass looks a hell of a

lot greener over my septic tank. Doesnt always make me feel better about what

looks to me like a heap of dead grass, but it helps most of the time.

As for feeling grounded and anchored...again Im not sure marriage and children

is the answer. I think that feeling comes from within and that even people that

are married and have kids sometimes feel lost and disconnected and vunerable to

forces beyond their control.

I guess the point Im trying to make is that feeling strong and grounded and

connected is a feeling that originates in innerspace...not outer. Its very hard

to get there...to feel within yourself that you belong and have a right to

happiness and success...especially given that we've all suffered child abuse

but...it is...at least for me...the goal.

Hugs to you

Jen

>

> Do any of you struggle with being mad that your mentally ill parent(s) is your

parent? I mean in an existential way. I have two, TWO f****d up parents. I

know I'm not alone in that, but I find it so hard to bear sometimes. Sometimes

I fear for my sanity in the face of it. Unlike many here I was not as

resilient. I've been unable to marry and have a lot of social difficulties that

have caused me problems in the workplace too. Basically my adult life has had

moments of great success, but I have trouble maintaining it. I never got the

tools. When I fail I hit the concrete hard, no support net. I try, I've done

tons of therapy, but it's never enough. Then my fada who I am NC with pops out

of nowhere like an evil jack-in-the-box when I'm already overwhelmed with the

more constant stress of my nada's side of the family. If I'd managed to marry

and have kids, it would anchor me I think but instead I feel so vulnerable to

them. Like I can't

quite succeed at being an adult and it makes me weaker in dealing with them.

Sorry if this seems like a self-pitying rant - I'm pretty low tonight.

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

,

I have certainly felt angry in the past and I do know what you mean.  Man, one

f'd up parent is one thing, but two?  It is a little much to comprehend, like

what exactly was the brilliant idea on that?  Why did I have to lose the parent

lottery?  But I mostly feel sad for myself now.  Many times, when I think about

myself as a child, I literally think, " Poor baby. "   It seems like there really

isn't much else to say about it.

It's helped me to see other people's lives over the years, including a number of

other people who are older than me and therefore have had more happen to them,

and it's helped me to live abroad so then when I think about my life,

unconsciously, I'm not so much comparing it to the guy next door to me who seems

to live pretty well and have no major problems, but with the Afghan who just

lost her entire family and who also has no means of financial support now.  It

seems to me that the reality is that most people's lives involve incredible

amounts of suffering--it is not just a single of bad events, but a series of bad

events.  My bad fortune occurred mostly in my childhood, which might be

particularly harmful, but really I am not alone in having suffered greatly.  It

doesn't make it right, but it does make it seem a little easier.  I think I

survive by trying to live a life I find intensely meaningful and by savoring the

good things that come my way

with particular focus.

I think you have succeeded as an adult, .  From what I have seen, you are a

kind, caring person.  You are thoughtful and consider things carefully, can

express yourself well, and whatever setbacks you've had in your working life,

you seem to be able to do your own laundry and cook your own meals and be

independent enough.  If I were your parent, that is really all I would need to

feel proud of you.

You are a good person.  I think that is the only necessary achievement and the

only one that is important.  I completely understand that there are other things

you would wish for--and I feel the same way about myself--and I also know that

much of your life has involved feeling really bad, but I think basically the

world is a better place because you are in it and I think that should count for

something.  Maybe it would help to just cut yourself some slack.

Best,

Ashana

See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Ashana, thanks for sharing how you approach this and indeed it does mean it a

lot to hear that I'm a good person. I don't really get that reflected back to

me much in part because I've isolated myself a lot. My difficulty is not that

I think I'm bad though but more that I don't feel equal to the task in front of

me. How to recover from life's setbacks while dealing with the mentally ill

relatives. I used to feel like I could do it, but sometimes it is just

overwhelming. I'm feeling a little better tonight though, so time to start

putting one foot in front of the other.

Jen, thanks for the hugs and yes I think you are right about feeling strong and

grounded as an internal state. I do sometimes read in other lists of people

who have very happy marriages w/o crazy parents who still struggle with feeling

alone so maybe it is a human condition as well. Reading your reply I realized

part of what my concern is is this " next of kin " - I have not one person I would

trust to make decisions for me, take care of me in a crisis, or take care of my

pets. I try to be careful and not take risks, but I imagine if I did have a

mate ( a good one) this next of kin fear would be gone. Oh and I had to smile

at this " the grass looks a hell of a lot greener over my septic tank "

lol....hopefully we can purify small sections, eh?

, thanks much for your care and kind thoughts - I did decide some comfort

eating was in order a bag of chips and chile con queso is my food drug of

choice :-) I value your posts very much as well as you show great caring for

people too. It's clear you've been through a lot and haven't let it harden you

but kept your heart open to care for others. That is a challenging thing in

life. My current stress is that my father (NPD/sociopath) who I was NC with

for twenty years found me by letter in Feb. and I ignored the letter - now he

has sent me another letter and my mother one as well. He's not giving up and

he's one scary man. I've now written him telling him I want no contact and am

preparing for this to escalate given what I know of him. This is why I am

feeling particularly vulnerable and wishing my own individual life were more

full - at least if I had a big 6'4 " husband who could threaten to kick his ass

if necessary... I do take note from what you say though that having the

husband isn't always an answer - it can turn out bad or you can lose them, I'm

sorry that happened to you and hope one day you have another opportunity with a

good man.

, I really loved that award book idea and sounds like it is wonderful for

your son. Lucky kid! Just goes to show how much having a mother who cares

and notices can make such a difference even when there are hurdles like ADD.

You did inspire me to get out a picture I had in storage to put back on the wall

from a time of my life that went better - to remind me of who used to be and

what I did accomplish - and may yet! About therapists and body language

training it is a good idea, something I've never had offered from the ones that

I have seen.

Malinda, what you said about the tapes " from nada, always love and take care of

your mother.

Then I have the thought this woman is mentally ill and she hurts you. " oh yes,

I have deep inner conflict over that. It's not as hard for my fada because my

parents divorced when I was an infant so my attachment to him is weaker. I'm

sorry you lost your first love because of your nada...so much these nadas have

to answer for. Thanks for the encouragement and a BIG HUG back your way...

Charlene, you are right it is absolutely awful how our nada's and abusive others

set us up for certain experiences as adults. Their legacy seems to live on

through other people unless we somehow can break the pattern. But by that time

things can be pretty complicated like having children with a BPD ex. I'm sorry

you are in that situation and I hope you know I'm *not* saying people who

managed to marry and have kids have it easy. What I wish I had is a good,

decent, sane husband who would support me - anything else would just make it

harder. I know things don't always turn out to be a bowl of cherries with

children either, but I have noticed many times on this board people saying the

need to defend their children or seeing their nada interacting with their

children gave them new strength or clarity.

[Guest guest]

Not alone with 2 F#cked up parents. Dad was schyzophrenic and halucinated and

an alcoholic mom is still misdiagnosed but BPD. She threatened to kill me

friday. It's not fair we had to grow up with this crap. Why did it seem that

we were the adults in our relationship, but made to feel crazy ourselves? I am

jsut begining my journey with NADA. I used to be so close to NADA when she only

let the crazy out periodically, or maybe because she was not as ill as FADA. I

feel guilty judging them in hindsight. I know Mental illness is a illness like

a heart condition but a heart condition doesn;t make you abusive towards your

own children. It's ok to be angry, hurt, afraid etc. I know I am. I feel

guilty because I have had minor contact with NADA this past month. At first I

was afraid of the silence. It was deafening. And I know NADA is dieing of

Congestive heart failure, kidney failure, orthostatic hypertension, she on

oxygen so I feel guilty. And I feel incredibly sad for her because her life was

so tragic, abused by her NADA and my FADA. She never had a chance. I think that

is where my guilt comes in. I tired to save FADA from drinking himself to death

and tried to save NADA but she just berates me daily. It's not right To be

abused and feel guilty about it. It's not right for us not to be angry. But

it's difficult for us to allow that of ourselves. It goes against my basic human

nature to be crule, to neglect someone who is sick, but I am having to step away

because my life is being destroyed. My husband is refusing to let me talk with

NADA and so is my brother. He stepped away at age 14. I have issues now because

he never aided me with her care. He left me to take care of them. I was 9. I

would alternate between pedistal and being the subject of their wraths. It's

not fair. My brother said it best that if we weren;t family we wouldn't have

anything to do with one another. Would you be angry if your weren;t related and

you were treated this way? Would it be acceptable to be angry if they weren;t

family? So what makes it ok since they are.

I need sleep I gotta go talk with the hopsital and the judge in the am. NADA

drama. She treatened to kill me and they are saying that I responsible for her

care?

G'night,

>

> Do any of you struggle with being mad that your mentally ill parent(s) is your

parent? I mean in an existential way. I have two, TWO f****d up parents. I

know I'm not alone in that, but I find it so hard to bear sometimes. Sometimes

I fear for my sanity in the face of it. Unlike many here I was not as

resilient. I've been unable to marry and have a lot of social difficulties that

have caused me problems in the workplace too. Basically my adult life has had

moments of great success, but I have trouble maintaining it. I never got the

tools. When I fail I hit the concrete hard, no support net. I try, I've done

tons of therapy, but it's never enough. Then my fada who I am NC with pops out

of nowhere like an evil jack-in-the-box when I'm already overwhelmed with the

more constant stress of my nada's side of the family. If I'd managed to marry

and have kids, it would anchor me I think but instead I feel so vulnerable to

them. Like I can't quite succeed at being an adult and it makes me weaker in

dealing with them. Sorry if this seems like a self-pitying rant - I'm pretty

low tonight.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

This situation with your fada is quite a challenge, to say the least! It's

scary! Do you have any recourse legally yet as far as stalking laws, restraining

orders, etc. Maybe if he contacts you again after you've asked him not to, you

may have a way to act then. How immensely frustrating that must be!!! It makes

me want to scream for you. I can see why this would be so hard and emotionally

draining. I think I could see myself going quickly down in a tailspin in that

situation. Please keep us updated if you'd like. You should NOT have to face

this alone.

I do understand very much what you are saying about just wanting the security of

a safe, strong husband who is on your side and has your back. Not so PC a way

for me to state it I guess, but I think it's what you are saying and I know I

definitely feel it myself. I know I can and will do whatever I need to in my

life, but it sure would be nice to have that kind of help and support, esp when

things get so challenging. It's also helpful to have another person's point of

view to offset my own and help me to see if I am being reasonable or not. I

don't mean to mean to put words into your mouth, but this is the feeling it

brings up in me when I read what you wrote. It truly can be overwhelming.

After my husband died, my older dtr began showing signs of difficulties, and she

was eventually dx'd BPD herself. (She is now 17.)They were extraordinarily

close, as he respected her and honored her as no man had before. Ironically,

losing him played into the abandonment issues for her bigtime. I keep wishing he

was here to help us all deal with this, but if he was she likely would not have

exhibited the BPD behaviors until she was an adult and I would not have been

able to get her into the treatment I did while she is still a minor. It's a

severe mercy, I think, for lack of a better term.

So yes, I think I get the gist of what you are saying. And I especially love the

wanting to know there is some big guy who'd kick someone's ass on your behalf if

necessary!!! Sometimes it is just so wearying to keep going. Please know there

are many of us here cheering you on friend, and ready and willing to offer back

the support you give to us. I'm kinda on the short side for ass-kicking, but if

you can get me someone who is a comparable size to me, I'm in!!!

Take good care,

[Guest guest]

,

I was also thinking today that part of the double whammy of bpd/npd parents is

that one or both of them tell you that you are worthless most of the time and

then when you do get praised, it is often in a way that is clearly at someone's

expense.  I don't really know if my dad was npd--I find him hard to

remember--although I'm convinced he had a pd.  But my nada's mom was definitely

npd, and I was often her golden child.  I remember once when I was about 7 or 8,

my sister and I had made some kind of latch hook crafty picture thing.  My

grandnada waited until my sister left the room and then told me she liked mine

better because she liked the colors, but that I wasn't to tell my sister this. 

Npds never think something is actually good unless it is better.  It is always

in comparison to something else.  Two things cannot both be wonderful,

generally.  They are only good if they are better and superior to everyone

else.  So, when my grandnada said

that, it made it seem like feeling good about something meant I had to feel

better than my sister--which I knew would be hurtful to her--and if that was the

case, then I didn't want it.  And so I think it made it hard for me to take in

any praise, because there is always that discomfort in the back of my mind.

But at the same time, if I've achieved something that really is quite a big deal

for me but that a number of other people have done also, then it really seems

like it shouldn't be a big deal and I then proceed to minimize it my own

mind--because it seems like something I have done can only be wonderful if it's

in some way superior or unusual.  Doing this to myself means that I get to enjoy

some things a lot less than I otherwise might and there's probably a lot less

serotonin floating around in my brain to help buouy me up during very stressful

times.

I also really think that healthy people go around being proud of and feeling

good about very ordinary things and that it enriches their lives immensely to do

that.  For example, the custodian who works in my building does an absolutely

bang-up job in what he does.  He's very competent and efficient and he's also a

nice person and will help you out even when he doesn't strictly speaking have

to.  There's nothing that special about custodial work and he's mostly just

doing his job, but if he goes home at the end of the day feeling like he did a

darn good job, I think he has every reason to do that and, in fact, that's how I

feel about him.  In fact, I have immense respect for the people I work with

that, day in and day out, just do their best and work hard and are decent human

beings.  And yet I find it tremendously hard to allow myself to feel that about

myself.  It's not that I feel bad about myself.  It's just I find it hard to

actually feel

good. 

Only lately have I begun to think it's okay to think I'm wonderful and that in

fact I could quite reasonably think that almost everyone is equally wonderful,

although in different ways.  I can do that without having to feel superior or

more entitled to things than others.  It's just that the fact of our lives

existing at all is really quite an amazing thing.

Best,

Ashana

Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.

Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Ashana-

I relate in soooo many ways to this. I know what you mean about feeling bad

about praise because it seems that what you do is not something that

anyone...given the inclination...could do. I actually do something that is

quite amazing but I know so many people that also do what I do so minimize

myself because of it and feel that I need to highlight the success of others as

somhow secondary to my own when really...its not different at all. I just have

a hard time seeing it because its not OMG so much better than what anyone else

has done. The reality is...I'll be happy to use my degree to do something far

less amazing but more in line with who I am and what I want. What I stuggle

with now is dealing with all the people around me that believe I should want

" more " for myself when the reality is...I do...its just not in line with what

they consider " more " . Its more about quality of life than striving for

admiration.

I think maybe there are a lot of narcissists in my field.

>

> ,

>

> I was also thinking today that part of the double whammy of bpd/npd parents is

that one or both of them tell you that you are worthless most of the time and

then when you do get praised, it is often in a way that is clearly at someone's

expense.  I don't really know if my dad was npd--I find him hard to

remember--although I'm convinced he had a pd.  But my nada's mom was definitely

npd, and I was often her golden child.  I remember once when I was about 7 or 8,

my sister and I had made some kind of latch hook crafty picture thing.  My

grandnada waited until my sister left the room and then told me she liked mine

better because she liked the colors, but that I wasn't to tell my sister this. 

Npds never think something is actually good unless it is better.  It is always

in comparison to something else.  Two things cannot both be wonderful,

generally.  They are only good if they are better and superior to everyone

else.  So, when my grandnada said

> that, it made it seem like feeling good about something meant I had to feel

better than my sister--which I knew would be hurtful to her--and if that was the

case, then I didn't want it.  And so I think it made it hard for me to take in

any praise, because there is always that discomfort in the back of my mind.

>

> But at the same time, if I've achieved something that really is quite a big

deal for me but that a number of other people have done also, then it really

seems like it shouldn't be a big deal and I then proceed to minimize it my own

mind--because it seems like something I have done can only be wonderful if it's

in some way superior or unusual.  Doing this to myself means that I get to enjoy

some things a lot less than I otherwise might and there's probably a lot less

serotonin floating around in my brain to help buouy me up during very stressful

times.

>

> I also really think that healthy people go around being proud of and feeling

good about very ordinary things and that it enriches their lives immensely to do

that.  For example, the custodian who works in my building does an absolutely

bang-up job in what he does.  He's very competent and efficient and he's also a

nice person and will help you out even when he doesn't strictly speaking have

to.  There's nothing that special about custodial work and he's mostly just

doing his job, but if he goes home at the end of the day feeling like he did a

darn good job, I think he has every reason to do that and, in fact, that's how I

feel about him.  In fact, I have immense respect for the people I work with

that, day in and day out, just do their best and work hard and are decent human

beings.  And yet I find it tremendously hard to allow myself to feel that about

myself.  It's not that I feel bad about myself.  It's just I find it hard to

actually feel

> good. 

>

> Only lately have I begun to think it's okay to think I'm wonderful and that in

fact I could quite reasonably think that almost everyone is equally wonderful,

although in different ways.  I can do that without having to feel superior or

more entitled to things than others.  It's just that the fact of our lives

existing at all is really quite an amazing thing.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.

Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

, thanks so much for the understanding - yes, definitely wanting to scream

over here. Even though I'm pro-God and have often written about the importance

of not anthropomorphizing him too much, right now I feel like yelling at Him -

wasn't it *enough* the burden I already carry, wasn't IT??? I've been doing

research about how to shield my address next time I move and it looks to be

expensive and exhausting - I'd rather not go to the trouble because of him, but

I'd also like to not be worrying about being found so easily. Even though I am

quite a feminist and like you believe I can take care of most things, sometimes

men really are better at dealing with other men especially when they are being

territorial/dominating. Oh well, I've drawn my line in the sand and I'm

standing guard.

A " severe mercy " indeed. That must be so hard to have been hit with losing him

and your daughter's bpd coming out at the same time. At least she's young

enough that her brain is still pretty flexible - I so hope that it can be

reversed for her. Why things happen in the world the way they do seems such a

mystery to me - I guess we'll get an explanation one day.

take care too,

>

> ,

> This situation with your fada is quite a challenge, to say the least! It's

scary! Do you have any recourse legally yet as far as stalking laws, restraining

orders, etc. Maybe if he contacts you again after you've asked him not to, you

may have a way to act then. How immensely frustrating that must be!!! It makes

me want to scream for you. I can see why this would be so hard and emotionally

draining. I think I could see myself going quickly down in a tailspin in that

situation. Please keep us updated if you'd like. You should NOT have to face

this alone.

>

> I do understand very much what you are saying about just wanting the security

of a safe, strong husband who is on your side and has your back. Not so PC a way

for me to state it I guess, but I think it's what you are saying and I know I

definitely feel it myself. I know I can and will do whatever I need to in my

life, but it sure would be nice to have that kind of help and support, esp when

things get so challenging. It's also helpful to have another person's point of

view to offset my own and help me to see if I am being reasonable or not. I

don't mean to mean to put words into your mouth, but this is the feeling it

brings up in me when I read what you wrote. It truly can be overwhelming.

>

> After my husband died, my older dtr began showing signs of difficulties, and

she was eventually dx'd BPD herself. (She is now 17.)They were extraordinarily

close, as he respected her and honored her as no man had before. Ironically,

losing him played into the abandonment issues for her bigtime. I keep wishing he

was here to help us all deal with this, but if he was she likely would not have

exhibited the BPD behaviors until she was an adult and I would not have been

able to get her into the treatment I did while she is still a minor. It's a

severe mercy, I think, for lack of a better term.

>

> So yes, I think I get the gist of what you are saying. And I especially love

the wanting to know there is some big guy who'd kick someone's ass on your

behalf if necessary!!! Sometimes it is just so wearying to keep going. Please

know there are many of us here cheering you on friend, and ready and willing to

offer back the support you give to us. I'm kinda on the short side for

ass-kicking, but if you can get me someone who is a comparable size to me, I'm

in!!!

>

> Take good care,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ashana, it's amazing the number they can do on us isn't it? To set you up

against your sister like that and to make praise and success a competitive

evaluation - UGH. I'm glad you are breaking away and know your successes are

yours. And doing a good job in and of itself is a good thing! I too have

trouble with these things but of a different variety. My parents didn't treat

me as worthless, I was of " great use " to them. I learned that my value lay in

being as smart as I could possibly be, a perfect little Einstein child to be

shown off (that was my fada). And for my nada a perfect little Counselor child

to make her feel better and understand Everything. I learned though that beyond

the ways in which I was " of use " I did not exist, they did not care, did not

disapprove, it just didn't matter. If I was in the top 1% on a test - oh that

was worth a small " that's nice dear " and later when I failed out, wasn't worth

caring as a lifetime of effort went down the drain. I could extend empathy for

events I should never have understood, but the moment I was self-centered or God

forbid rude I became a selfish/ungrateful/blah blah child.

It messes with the mind....if I were to try to analyze my programming like you

have I'd say I learned that I had to be perfect or I was nothing. That led to a

lot of problems recovering from not being perfect cause at the end of the day

I'm just a human being like anybody else - but they never allowed that or

acknowledged what that meant.

Thanks for getting me thinking....here's to us thinking for ourselves!

>

> ,

>

> I was also thinking today that part of the double whammy of bpd/npd parents is

that one or both of them tell you that you are worthless most of the time and

then when you do get praised, it is often in a way that is clearly at someone's

expense.  I don't really know if my dad was npd--I find him hard to

remember--although I'm convinced he had a pd.  But my nada's mom was definitely

npd, and I was often her golden child.  I remember once when I was about 7 or 8,

my sister and I had made some kind of latch hook crafty picture thing.  My

grandnada waited until my sister left the room and then told me she liked mine

better because she liked the colors, but that I wasn't to tell my sister this. 

Npds never think something is actually good unless it is better.  It is always

in comparison to something else.  Two things cannot both be wonderful,

generally.  They are only good if they are better and superior to everyone

else.  So, when my grandnada said

> that, it made it seem like feeling good about something meant I had to feel

better than my sister--which I knew would be hurtful to her--and if that was the

case, then I didn't want it.  And so I think it made it hard for me to take in

any praise, because there is always that discomfort in the back of my mind.

>

> But at the same time, if I've achieved something that really is quite a big

deal for me but that a number of other people have done also, then it really

seems like it shouldn't be a big deal and I then proceed to minimize it my own

mind--because it seems like something I have done can only be wonderful if it's

in some way superior or unusual.  Doing this to myself means that I get to enjoy

some things a lot less than I otherwise might and there's probably a lot less

serotonin floating around in my brain to help buouy me up during very stressful

times.

>

> I also really think that healthy people go around being proud of and feeling

good about very ordinary things and that it enriches their lives immensely to do

that.  For example, the custodian who works in my building does an absolutely

bang-up job in what he does.  He's very competent and efficient and he's also a

nice person and will help you out even when he doesn't strictly speaking have

to.  There's nothing that special about custodial work and he's mostly just

doing his job, but if he goes home at the end of the day feeling like he did a

darn good job, I think he has every reason to do that and, in fact, that's how I

feel about him.  In fact, I have immense respect for the people I work with

that, day in and day out, just do their best and work hard and are decent human

beings.  And yet I find it tremendously hard to allow myself to feel that about

myself.  It's not that I feel bad about myself.  It's just I find it hard to

actually feel

> good. 

>

> Only lately have I begun to think it's okay to think I'm wonderful and that in

fact I could quite reasonably think that almost everyone is equally wonderful,

although in different ways.  I can do that without having to feel superior or

more entitled to things than others.  It's just that the fact of our lives

existing at all is really quite an amazing thing.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.

Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for posting that.  I often learn so much from you, even when our

experiences are not the same.  I don't think I ever felt any pressure to really

excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in what I did

that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that seemed to

relate to them.  It mattered much more to nada that I paid attention to her than

that I got As.  I just wasn't very good at paying attention to her and so I got

very little praise as a child for anything and when it did occur, it seemed

arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted something (which often she did).

I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and doing

it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it.  My nada alternately

praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to show off (mostly

in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me for " thinking I was

so smart. "   I could not win.

Best,

Ashana

See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Ashana - You said, " if I've achieved something that really is quite a big deal

for me but that a number of other people have done also, then it really seems

like it shouldn't be a big deal and I then proceed to minimize it my own

mind--because it seems like something I have done can only be wonderful if it's

in some way superior or unusual. "   

By that logic, since there are a number of Nobel Prize winners every year, the

award is no big deal. But you're right - all winners are not equal. There are

people who are " winning " competitions on TV because they are willing to eat

bugs. So I think that defining the criteria is a crucial part of evaluating

whether you're " winning " anything important.

You are a unique person, who can only evaluate your successes by comparing where

you are now to where you've been. As long as your progress - toward whatever

you consider success - is steady, you're a winner. And look at what you've

accomplished! If you didn't count anything other than the wisdom you share here

on this board, you'd be considered a winner.

-

>

[Guest guest]

,

I am firmly convinced that God is big enough for our questions, frustrations,

anger, bewilderment, etc. I'm sure plenty of my friends would disagree with me,

but I believe He values my honesty and wants me to be real with Him. So, as a

KO, I feel I am finally learning to be more real with Him without fear of

retribution. One of my favorite verses says, " He is mindful that we are but

dust " . I find that very freeing that I don't have to beat myself for not being

perfect. He knows I will experience disappointment, anger, frustration- even

with Him! Not to wax too theological, but I find it comforting. A funny aside is

that, becs of a comment I made when my husband was in the hospital, we have a

running family joke about 'butt dust'. It always makes us giggle. And always

reminds me that I am wonderfully human, and that's okay.

Sometimes people are just idiots, and *we* end up enduring consequences from

their choices and actions ... and I'm sure that there are idiotic things I've

done that others have paid for whether I knew it or not. Still, when it comes to

something as serious as this with your fada, I think your frustration is MOST

understandable. It doesn't seem fair at all, does it? And it's not. I'm proud of

you for taking your necessary stand, and wish that it did not consume the time

and effort that it has. But you seem determined to not let it rule or ruin life

for you, and I respect that.

Thx for your well wishes for my dtr. She was gone to treatment for about 15

months and has been home for 4 weeks now. We are pressing on a step at a time. I

do feel cautiously optimistic for her, though I know the choice will always be

hers to choose her own health or not. I can only love and support her in healthy

ways and trust she will do the same for herself. I'm SOOO grateful we had the

opportunity to get her help. Many don't ever have that chance ... and we know

they become nadas and fadas. I hope for better for her.

Hope you have a good day,

> >

> > ,

> > This situation with your fada is quite a challenge, to say the least! It's

scary! Do you have any recourse legally yet as far as stalking laws, restraining

orders, etc. Maybe if he contacts you again after you've asked him not to, you

may have a way to act then. How immensely frustrating that must be!!! It makes

me want to scream for you. I can see why this would be so hard and emotionally

draining. I think I could see myself going quickly down in a tailspin in that

situation. Please keep us updated if you'd like. You should NOT have to face

this alone.

> >

> > I do understand very much what you are saying about just wanting the

security of a safe, strong husband who is on your side and has your back. Not so

PC a way for me to state it I guess, but I think it's what you are saying and I

know I definitely feel it myself. I know I can and will do whatever I need to in

my life, but it sure would be nice to have that kind of help and support, esp

when things get so challenging. It's also helpful to have another person's point

of view to offset my own and help me to see if I am being reasonable or not. I

don't mean to mean to put words into your mouth, but this is the feeling it

brings up in me when I read what you wrote. It truly can be overwhelming.

> >

> > After my husband died, my older dtr began showing signs of difficulties, and

she was eventually dx'd BPD herself. (She is now 17.)They were extraordinarily

close, as he respected her and honored her as no man had before. Ironically,

losing him played into the abandonment issues for her bigtime. I keep wishing he

was here to help us all deal with this, but if he was she likely would not have

exhibited the BPD behaviors until she was an adult and I would not have been

able to get her into the treatment I did while she is still a minor. It's a

severe mercy, I think, for lack of a better term.

> >

> > So yes, I think I get the gist of what you are saying. And I especially love

the wanting to know there is some big guy who'd kick someone's ass on your

behalf if necessary!!! Sometimes it is just so wearying to keep going. Please

know there are many of us here cheering you on friend, and ready and willing to

offer back the support you give to us. I'm kinda on the short side for

ass-kicking, but if you can get me someone who is a comparable size to me, I'm

in!!!

> >

> > Take good care,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was!! Nada kept telling me with my IQ, I should be the smartest kid in

school. Of course she refused to believe I also have dyslexia, and had a

HARD time with letters and numbers...she'd prefer to call me lazy, than

admit I had a learning problem !! Then she threatened to give my dog away if

I didn't improve my grades. I told my teachers, and they all knew I knew

the stuff, so they gave me oral tests rather then written tests...nada

refused to let the schools test me for any learning problem...but, when I

did do good, she never praised me...only said it's about time I live up to

my potential...all of us kids, never got praise, only punishment for not

achieving..

Jackie

,

Thank you for posting that. I often learn so much from you, even when our

experiences are not the same. I don't think I ever felt any pressure to

really excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in

what I did that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that

seemed to relate to them. It mattered much more to nada that I paid

attention to her than that I got As. I just wasn't very good at paying

attention to her and so I got very little praise as a child for anything and

when it did occur, it seemed arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted

something (which often she did).

I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it. My nada

alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to

show off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me

for " thinking I was so smart. " I could not win.

Best,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

very good point, !!

Jackie

Ashana - You said, " if I've achieved something that really is quite a big

deal for me but that a number of other people have done also, then it really

seems like it shouldn't be a big deal and I then proceed to minimize it my

own mind--because it seems like something I have done can only be wonderful

if it's in some way superior or unusual. "

By that logic, since there are a number of Nobel Prize winners every year,

the award is no big deal. But you're right - all winners are not equal.

There are people who are " winning " competitions on TV because they are

willing to eat bugs. So I think that defining the criteria is a crucial

part of evaluating whether you're " winning " anything important.

You are a unique person, who can only evaluate your successes by comparing

where you are now to where you've been. As long as your progress - toward

whatever you consider success - is steady, you're a winner. And look at what

you've accomplished! If you didn't count anything other than the wisdom you

share here on this board, you'd be considered a winner.

-

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, so great to hear others with the same stories. If I was sick, I was lying.

If I earned a B, I was threatened with bodily harm. If I didn't like an

activity and wanted to quit, I was a loser. But, if I acheived, well that was

just expected. Afterall, HER children were geniuses so it was merely expected

not praised. And afterall, she would have done it better.

Even before I went NC, I refused to tell her any of my children's

accomplishments because all she ever did was tear them down and go on and on

about how her children were better. It wasn't a stupid competition. My

children are my children. Their successes are something they are proud of and I

am proud of! I won't let anyone try to disregard their worth like mine was my

entire life.

Just wow to hear others who sound like they've lived my life. Usually my

siblings are the only people who understand what I'm talking about.

Johanna

_________________________________________________________________

With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.

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[Guest guest]

I am a perfectionist and it is all or nothing with me. I've struggled throughout

my life because of this. I've often felt like a complete failure. It never

mattered what I did though. I was never good enough for my parents. If I got 99%

on a test, what happened to the other 1%. If I got an " A " , what exactly does an

" a " mean? I sometimes was praised, but it was always delivered in a very

insincere way. I never felt like they were really happy with it or me. I'd have

to listen to how great their friends' children were to the point I felt like I

was nothing compared to them. I've never understood that aspect of my parents.

They had a great kid (me!), but other people's children were always better. Go

figure.

>

> ,

>

> Thank you for posting that.  I often learn so much from you, even when our

experiences are not the same.  I don't think I ever felt any pressure to really

excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in what I did

that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that seemed to

relate to them.  It mattered much more to nada that I paid attention to her than

that I got As.  I just wasn't very good at paying attention to her and so I got

very little praise as a child for anything and when it did occur, it seemed

arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted something (which often she did).

>

> I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it.  My nada

alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to show

off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me for

" thinking I was so smart. "   I could not win.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

Sadly, I think your nada's inability to acknowledge or seek help for your

learning disabilites was because she saw it as a reflection of her own

inadequacies. She saw it as a slight against herself, as if you are learning

disabled because of her. (I used to teach spec. ed. so I know that modifications

can be made so students can be successful. I applaud your teachers for helping

you as they did) I experienced similar behavior from nada. I have severe

allergies and suffered as a child. Nada would not acknowledge them nor would she

take me to a doctor, yet she always talked about her neices who had severe

allergies and had to have allergy shots. Several years ago I told her I had

allergies and always had them. Her response was " well, you didn't get them from

me. " It makes no sense.

Abby

>

> I was!! Nada kept telling me with my IQ, I should be the smartest kid in

> school. Of course she refused to believe I also have dyslexia, and had a

> HARD time with letters and numbers...she'd prefer to call me lazy, than

> admit I had a learning problem !! Then she threatened to give my dog away if

> I didn't improve my grades. I told my teachers, and they all knew I knew

> the stuff, so they gave me oral tests rather then written tests...nada

> refused to let the schools test me for any learning problem...but, when I

> did do good, she never praised me...only said it's about time I live up to

> my potential...all of us kids, never got praise, only punishment for not

> achieving..

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> ,

>

> Thank you for posting that. I often learn so much from you, even when our

> experiences are not the same. I don't think I ever felt any pressure to

> really excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in

> what I did that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that

> seemed to relate to them. It mattered much more to nada that I paid

> attention to her than that I got As. I just wasn't very good at paying

> attention to her and so I got very little praise as a child for anything and

> when it did occur, it seemed arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted

> something (which often she did).

>

> I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

> doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it. My nada

> alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to

> show off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me

> for " thinking I was so smart. " I could not win.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, what we're put through as children is really a form of psychological

torture. Punishment instead of praise, threats as motivation, demands for

perfection, being ignored and devalued unless actively gaining positive

attention for the pd parent, the no-win situation... its all so heart-breaking.

And yet, none of this turned us into cruel and abusive individuals ourselves.

Its really amazing.

I've recently watched two different documentaries on personality disorder for

the first time. One is called " I, psychopath " and its about a guy named Vaknin

who is a self-proclaimed narcissist, and the other documentary was also about

psychopathy but the title wasn't available, and it focused more on efforts to

learn how to treat the disorder in prison populations. They are both British

documentaries and feature some of the same consultants and authorities in the

field of study, and they both include real-time MRI brain scan studies and other

tests for personality disorder.

They were actually kind of hard for me to watch, the interviews with the

psychopaths were sometimes triggering for me.

Both these documentaries made me believe even more strongly that the Cluster B

personality disorders are a continuum of severity instead of separate disorders:

that borderline pd isn't different from antisocial pd (aka sociopathy or

psychopathy) in kind, only in degree. (Well, either that or my nada is more of

a narcissist pd/antisocial pd than borderline pd.) The eerie similarities come

from the organic brain dysfunction in the area of emotions: the borderline pd

has warped perception of emotions and dis-regulated assimilation and expression

of emotions, while the narcissistic pds and antisocial pds seem to lack the

ability to perceive, assimilate or express any emotions at all (unless

self-interest, self-pleasure and self-comfort are considered emotions.) The

focus of studies on emotional regulation seems to be the amygdala area of the

brain, while a separate area of the brain seems to be the " brakes " on

impulsivity. I find all this scientific research totally fascinating, myself.

If anyone is interested in watching these documentaries, I can post the links.

-Annie

>

> I was!! Nada kept telling me with my IQ, I should be the smartest kid in

> school. Of course she refused to believe I also have dyslexia, and had a

> HARD time with letters and numbers...she'd prefer to call me lazy, than

> admit I had a learning problem !! Then she threatened to give my dog away if

> I didn't improve my grades. I told my teachers, and they all knew I knew

> the stuff, so they gave me oral tests rather then written tests...nada

> refused to let the schools test me for any learning problem...but, when I

> did do good, she never praised me...only said it's about time I live up to

> my potential...all of us kids, never got praise, only punishment for not

> achieving..

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> ,

>

> Thank you for posting that. I often learn so much from you, even when our

> experiences are not the same. I don't think I ever felt any pressure to

> really excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in

> what I did that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that

> seemed to relate to them. It mattered much more to nada that I paid

> attention to her than that I got As. I just wasn't very good at paying

> attention to her and so I got very little praise as a child for anything and

> when it did occur, it seemed arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted

> something (which often she did).

>

> I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

> doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it. My nada

> alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to

> show off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me

> for " thinking I was so smart. " I could not win.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

[Guest guest]

Forgot to add....all of this is confusing to me because I would feel inadequate

and stupid when I heard about their friends' chldren and their achievements.

Yet, they would brag to their friends about my achievements. I would always be

surprised when I heard they said something good about me from other people. I

always wondered why there was such a discrepency. I have never understood it.

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Thank you for posting that.  I often learn so much from you, even when our

experiences are not the same.  I don't think I ever felt any pressure to really

excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in what I did

that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that seemed to

relate to them.  It mattered much more to nada that I paid attention to her than

that I got As.  I just wasn't very good at paying attention to her and so I got

very little praise as a child for anything and when it did occur, it seemed

arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted something (which often she did).

> >

> > I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it.  My nada

alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to show

off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me for

" thinking I was so smart. "   I could not win.

> >

> > Best,

> > Ashana

> >

> >

> > See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check

out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Abby,

Exactly!

I do understand it now.  The goal when talking to you was to make themselves

feel better by projecting their inadequacies, shame, negative emotions and

failures onto you--if necessary, by manipulating you into projective

identification.  The goal when talking to others was to make themselves feel

better by attracting the praise and admiration of others through your

achievements and good qualities.

But from the perspective of a child, it just made no sense at all, because it

appeared to have to do with you but really had nothing to do with you.  It had

everything to do with their attempt to feel better about themselves and had

nothing to do with how they actually felt about you.  It was almost as if they

did not realize you even existed as a separate entity.  You only existed as a

pawn in this ongoing struggle within themselves.

It was so completely confusing.

Best,

Ashana

See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

I never thought of it that way. I think you're right. I am learning in therapy

that none of what I experienced has anything to do with me and everything to do

with nada and my father. Too bad it took me this long to understand.

Abby

>

> Abby,

>

> Exactly!

>

> I do understand it now.  The goal when talking to you was to make themselves

feel better by projecting their inadequacies, shame, negative emotions and

failures onto you--if necessary, by manipulating you into projective

identification.  The goal when talking to others was to make themselves feel

better by attracting the praise and admiration of others through your

achievements and good qualities.

>

> But from the perspective of a child, it just made no sense at all, because it

appeared to have to do with you but really had nothing to do with you.  It had

everything to do with their attempt to feel better about themselves and had

nothing to do with how they actually felt about you.  It was almost as if they

did not realize you even existed as a separate entity.  You only existed as a

pawn in this ongoing struggle within themselves.

>

> It was so completely confusing.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

>

>