Re: struggling with anger about how it is

[Guest guest]

OMG that's exactly what my nada told me when I told her I was tested when I

was college ( I was old enough and didn't need parental permission) and had

dyslexia. I almost said " no, I got it from sitting on the toilet seat at

school !! " geeze !! I wish my teachers could have done more, but without

parental permission, I guess they really couldn't. I would always be

getting D's and F's up until the last quarter when they realized I knew the

stuff from class, and when they started giving me oral exams, I got A's and

B's !! My nada decided I got better at the end because I was afraid of

being held back and worked hard to improve enough to get passed along !! I

wonder if any of my teachers ever said anything to her about me having a

learning problem....I'm sure she'd deny it...the worse part of it is, like

your nada seeing the allergies in your nieces but not in you, my nada

volunteered to help dyslexic children !! I wonder if she called them lazy

and worthless too !! probably not as she was never mean to outsiders...

Jackie

Jackie,

Sadly, I think your nada's inability to acknowledge or seek help for your

learning disabilites was because she saw it as a reflection of her own

inadequacies. She saw it as a slight against herself, as if you are learning

disabled because of her. (I used to teach spec. ed. so I know that

modifications can be made so students can be successful. I applaud your

teachers for helping you as they did) I experienced similar behavior from

nada. I have severe allergies and suffered as a child. Nada would not

acknowledge them nor would she take me to a doctor, yet she always talked

about her neices who had severe allergies and had to have allergy shots.

Several years ago I told her I had allergies and always had them. Her

response was " well, you didn't get them from me. " It makes no sense.

Abby

[Guest guest]

yes, do post the links !! they sound interesting. I agree, it is amazing

that we didn't turn out to be nasty abusers, like our BPD parent...another

testament to it being genetic, because the abuse, neglect etc was there for

all of us !! Nada did get me some flash cards for math...I was ( and still

am) awful in math, the numbers keep dancing around LOL with letters, I know

enough words, that I can pretty much guess what the word is...but not

numbers...anyway, she gave them to my brother who was 5 years older than I,

and told HIM to teach me using the flash cards. well, HE didn't want to do

it, and they made me feel stupid, so *I* didn't want to do it..and since

nada didn't really care, she never checked up on us, so we told her we were

doing it, and didn't....

Jackie

Yes, what we're put through as children is really a form of psychological

torture. Punishment instead of praise, threats as motivation, demands for

perfection, being ignored and devalued unless actively gaining positive

attention for the pd parent, the no-win situation... its all so

heart-breaking. And yet, none of this turned us into cruel and abusive

individuals ourselves. Its really amazing.

I've recently watched two different documentaries on personality disorder

for the first time. One is called " I, psychopath " and its about a guy named

Vaknin who is a self-proclaimed narcissist, and the other documentary was

also about psychopathy but the title wasn't available, and it focused more

on efforts to learn how to treat the disorder in prison populations. They

are both British documentaries and feature some of the same consultants and

authorities in the field of study, and they both include real-time MRI brain

scan studies and other tests for personality disorder.

They were actually kind of hard for me to watch, the interviews with the

psychopaths were sometimes triggering for me.

Both these documentaries made me believe even more strongly that the Cluster

B personality disorders are a continuum of severity instead of separate

disorders: that borderline pd isn't different from antisocial pd (aka

sociopathy or psychopathy) in kind, only in degree. (Well, either that or

my nada is more of a narcissist pd/antisocial pd than borderline pd.) The

eerie similarities come from the organic brain dysfunction in the area of

emotions: the borderline pd has warped perception of emotions and

dis-regulated assimilation and expression of emotions, while the

narcissistic pds and antisocial pds seem to lack the ability to perceive,

assimilate or express any emotions at all (unless self-interest,

self-pleasure and self-comfort are considered emotions.) The focus of

studies on emotional regulation seems to be the amygdala area of the brain,

while a separate area of the brain seems to be the " brakes " on impulsivity.

I find all this scientific research totally fascinating, myself.

If anyone is interested in watching these documentaries, I can post the

links.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

thx Annie - I'd love the links.

> If anyone is interested in watching these documentaries, I can post the links.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

OK, here's the link to the documentary on Sam Vaknin, the self-proclaimed

narcissist/psychopath, called " I, Psychopath " :

http://www.blip.tv/file/2268740

and here's the link to the other documentary about psychopathy.

Its just titled " Psychopaths - Documentary - (part 1) "

This one is broken into 5 sections because its at YouTube and they can only show

videos that are about 10 minutes each, but you can select the remaining 4 from

the " related videos " bar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3egkiZTOpSE

They are both very disturbing (and can be triggering, so be careful) but they

are thought-provoking.

-Annie

>

> yes, do post the links !! they sound interesting. I agree, it is amazing

> that we didn't turn out to be nasty abusers, like our BPD parent...another

> testament to it being genetic, because the abuse, neglect etc was there for

> all of us !! Nada did get me some flash cards for math...I was ( and still

> am) awful in math, the numbers keep dancing around LOL with letters, I know

> enough words, that I can pretty much guess what the word is...but not

> numbers...anyway, she gave them to my brother who was 5 years older than I,

> and told HIM to teach me using the flash cards. well, HE didn't want to do

> it, and they made me feel stupid, so *I* didn't want to do it..and since

> nada didn't really care, she never checked up on us, so we told her we were

> doing it, and didn't....

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Yes, what we're put through as children is really a form of psychological

> torture. Punishment instead of praise, threats as motivation, demands for

> perfection, being ignored and devalued unless actively gaining positive

> attention for the pd parent, the no-win situation... its all so

> heart-breaking. And yet, none of this turned us into cruel and abusive

> individuals ourselves. Its really amazing.

>

> I've recently watched two different documentaries on personality disorder

> for the first time. One is called " I, psychopath " and its about a guy named

> Vaknin who is a self-proclaimed narcissist, and the other documentary was

> also about psychopathy but the title wasn't available, and it focused more

> on efforts to learn how to treat the disorder in prison populations. They

> are both British documentaries and feature some of the same consultants and

> authorities in the field of study, and they both include real-time MRI brain

> scan studies and other tests for personality disorder.

>

> They were actually kind of hard for me to watch, the interviews with the

> psychopaths were sometimes triggering for me.

>

> Both these documentaries made me believe even more strongly that the Cluster

> B personality disorders are a continuum of severity instead of separate

> disorders: that borderline pd isn't different from antisocial pd (aka

> sociopathy or psychopathy) in kind, only in degree. (Well, either that or

> my nada is more of a narcissist pd/antisocial pd than borderline pd.) The

> eerie similarities come from the organic brain dysfunction in the area of

> emotions: the borderline pd has warped perception of emotions and

> dis-regulated assimilation and expression of emotions, while the

> narcissistic pds and antisocial pds seem to lack the ability to perceive,

> assimilate or express any emotions at all (unless self-interest,

> self-pleasure and self-comfort are considered emotions.) The focus of

> studies on emotional regulation seems to be the amygdala area of the brain,

> while a separate area of the brain seems to be the " brakes " on impulsivity.

> I find all this scientific research totally fascinating, myself.

>

> If anyone is interested in watching these documentaries, I can post the

> links.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Abby - YES! Same here. I had a same-age friend in 3rd grade, we got along

great - she was a champion baton twirler, I took ballet. She was thin and

pretty, but struggled in school. I was chubby and dumpy, but knew my ballet

steps and made straight A's - and still we got along. Until my mother insisted

on putting us BOTH in ballet, BOTH in baton. Then it was a competition, and by

her standards, my friend always came out ahead. Mom created so much resentment

with the constant comparisons that it ruined the friendship. Fast forward 40

years - and Mom has a friend my age whose birthday is near mine, who is also a

suburban mom, and with whom I should (and do) have much in common. However, on

life philosophies, religion, politics, and world views we're just about 180

degrees apart. She's a nice person, but just isn't somebody I want to pal

around with - and Mom still insists we're " like twins " - and has set up the

competition AGAIN! She constantly compares our kids, our houses, husbands,

cars, life events - it's like she's got an Excel database set up and she's

running a life-long contest. This time there's no friendship to ruin, except in

Mom's head. You'd think it would be too much work, and she'd value each of us

for our very different attributes - but she has to create pigeonholes so she can

determine who's ahead. It is beyond bizarre. It's such a relief not to be

running in her Olympics any more. -

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Thank you for posting that.  I often learn so much from you, even when our

experiences are not the same.  I don't think I ever felt any pressure to really

excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in what I did

that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that seemed to

relate to them.  It mattered much more to nada that I paid attention to her than

that I got As.  I just wasn't very good at paying attention to her and so I got

very little praise as a child for anything and when it did occur, it seemed

arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted something (which often she did).

> >

> > I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it.  My nada

alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to show

off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me for

" thinking I was so smart. "   I could not win.

> >

> > Best,

> > Ashana

> >

> >

> > See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check

out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jackie - I am so sorry to hear how your mom reacted to your dyslexia. It was

the exact opposite of anything that would have helped you.

As a parent, I can tell you it's a blow to the ego when you learn that there's

something " off " or not-quite-excellent with your child. Even though it's not

the parent's fault, we have such high hopes for our kids that it hurts to know

they're going to struggle with anything - whether it be a learning disability or

a physical impediment. That being said, it is the job of parents to then get

the hell over it, stand up and become their child's champion and first defender.

You needed to have the dyslexia recognized, you needed to be told it was a

setback, but not the end of the world. You needed to be told that you were a

smart little girl who could do well in school and in life - with some extra

training and work. You needed your mom to get in there and fight for every

extra class, every tutor, every therapeutic program possible to help you

overcome the LD. Then, when you accomplished your goals, you needed for the

leader of your cheering section (Mom) to set off fireworks in your honor.

That's what it takes - every day - to help a kid overcome an LD.

Your mother failed you. The fact that you managed to overcome dyslexia all by

yourself (with the help of those wonderful teachers) speaks volumes about your

own intelligence and determination. -

>

> OMG that's exactly what my nada told me when I told her I was tested when I

> was college ( I was old enough and didn't need parental permission) and had

> dyslexia. I almost said " no, I got it from sitting on the toilet seat at

> school !! " geeze !! I wish my teachers could have done more, but without

> parental permission, I guess they really couldn't. I would always be

> getting D's and F's up until the last quarter when they realized I knew the

> stuff from class, and when they started giving me oral exams, I got A's and

> B's !! My nada decided I got better at the end because I was afraid of

> being held back and worked hard to improve enough to get passed along !! I

> wonder if any of my teachers ever said anything to her about me having a

> learning problem....I'm sure she'd deny it...the worse part of it is, like

> your nada seeing the allergies in your nieces but not in you, my nada

> volunteered to help dyslexic children !! I wonder if she called them lazy

> and worthless too !! probably not as she was never mean to outsiders...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Jackie,

>

> Sadly, I think your nada's inability to acknowledge or seek help for your

> learning disabilites was because she saw it as a reflection of her own

> inadequacies. She saw it as a slight against herself, as if you are learning

> disabled because of her. (I used to teach spec. ed. so I know that

> modifications can be made so students can be successful. I applaud your

> teachers for helping you as they did) I experienced similar behavior from

> nada. I have severe allergies and suffered as a child. Nada would not

> acknowledge them nor would she take me to a doctor, yet she always talked

> about her neices who had severe allergies and had to have allergy shots.

> Several years ago I told her I had allergies and always had them. Her

> response was " well, you didn't get them from me. " It makes no sense.

>

> Abby

>

[Guest guest]

thank you, . While I was in college, I got myself tested, and the

counselors there really helped me. As a child, I thought every one else

knew the magic rule to make sense of letters and numbers, but for some

reason they wouldn't tell me......so when I was old enough I found the help

through kind people :-) when I'm stressed out or tired, it's still hard,

but mostly it's not that big of a deal any more,...and in college, after

the first semester, I was on the deans list the rest of my time there !!

after I learned how to compensate for the LD...I was lucky that my teachers

believed in me, and gave me a chance !!

Jackie

Jackie - I am so sorry to hear how your mom reacted to your dyslexia. It

was the exact opposite of anything that would have helped you.

As a parent, I can tell you it's a blow to the ego when you learn that

there's something " off " or not-quite-excellent with your child. Even though

it's not the parent's fault, we have such high hopes for our kids that it

hurts to know they're going to struggle with anything - whether it be a

learning disability or a physical impediment. That being said, it is the

job of parents to then get the hell over it, stand up and become their

child's champion and first defender. You needed to have the dyslexia

recognized, you needed to be told it was a setback, but not the end of the

world. You needed to be told that you were a smart little girl who could do

well in school and in life - with some extra training and work. You needed

your mom to get in there and fight for every extra class, every tutor, every

therapeutic program possible to help you overcome the LD. Then, when you

accomplished your goals, you needed for the leader of your cheering section

(Mom) to set off fireworks in your honor. That's what it takes - every

day - to help a kid overcome an LD.

Your mother failed you. The fact that you managed to overcome dyslexia all

by yourself (with the help of those wonderful teachers) speaks volumes about

your own intelligence and determination. -

[Guest guest]

VERY interested in this - I saw you posted the links thanks!

> >

> > I was!! Nada kept telling me with my IQ, I should be the smartest kid in

> > school. Of course she refused to believe I also have dyslexia, and had a

> > HARD time with letters and numbers...she'd prefer to call me lazy, than

> > admit I had a learning problem !! Then she threatened to give my dog away if

> > I didn't improve my grades. I told my teachers, and they all knew I knew

> > the stuff, so they gave me oral tests rather then written tests...nada

> > refused to let the schools test me for any learning problem...but, when I

> > did do good, she never praised me...only said it's about time I live up to

> > my potential...all of us kids, never got praise, only punishment for not

> > achieving..

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Thank you for posting that. I often learn so much from you, even when our

> > experiences are not the same. I don't think I ever felt any pressure to

> > really excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in

> > what I did that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that

> > seemed to relate to them. It mattered much more to nada that I paid

> > attention to her than that I got As. I just wasn't very good at paying

> > attention to her and so I got very little praise as a child for anything and

> > when it did occur, it seemed arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted

> > something (which often she did).

> >

> > I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

> > doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it. My nada

> > alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to

> > show off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me

> > for " thinking I was so smart. " I could not win.

> >

> > Best,

> > Ashana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jackie, my jaw is on the floor - she volunteered to help children with dyslexia

while refusing to see it in you or help you at all! I keep thinking I can't be

surprised anymore but... I'm so glad your teachers were smart enough to see

and help you.

Abby, my experience is similar any defect in me was a defect in her. She told

me that she cried when she found out I needed glasses because then I wasn't

perfect anymore. This was when I was about six - I have one snapshot memory of

standing in a line to read the eye chart, that's it...maybe there's a reason I

barely remember anything.

>

> OMG that's exactly what my nada told me when I told her I was tested when I

> was college ( I was old enough and didn't need parental permission) and had

> dyslexia. I almost said " no, I got it from sitting on the toilet seat at

> school !! " geeze !! I wish my teachers could have done more, but without

> parental permission, I guess they really couldn't. I would always be

> getting D's and F's up until the last quarter when they realized I knew the

> stuff from class, and when they started giving me oral exams, I got A's and

> B's !! My nada decided I got better at the end because I was afraid of

> being held back and worked hard to improve enough to get passed along !! I

> wonder if any of my teachers ever said anything to her about me having a

> learning problem....I'm sure she'd deny it...the worse part of it is, like

> your nada seeing the allergies in your nieces but not in you, my nada

> volunteered to help dyslexic children !! I wonder if she called them lazy

> and worthless too !! probably not as she was never mean to outsiders...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Jackie,

>

> Sadly, I think your nada's inability to acknowledge or seek help for your

> learning disabilites was because she saw it as a reflection of her own

> inadequacies. She saw it as a slight against herself, as if you are learning

> disabled because of her. (I used to teach spec. ed. so I know that

> modifications can be made so students can be successful. I applaud your

> teachers for helping you as they did) I experienced similar behavior from

> nada. I have severe allergies and suffered as a child. Nada would not

> acknowledge them nor would she take me to a doctor, yet she always talked

> about her neices who had severe allergies and had to have allergy shots.

> Several years ago I told her I had allergies and always had them. Her

> response was " well, you didn't get them from me. " It makes no sense.

>

> Abby

>

[Guest guest]

Ashana, so strange how many common themes there are. Yep I definitely got the

public comments about my grades and the like, but at home it was unimportant.

If it made her look good to others though she'd use that for sure. I learn a

lot from your posts too - I really like how you analyze things. I meant to say

too re the post before this you *are* a good person, it shines through with all

the caring and perspective you share with us here. Not just a not bad person,

but a GOOD person!

>

> ,

>

> Thank you for posting that.  I often learn so much from you, even when our

experiences are not the same.  I don't think I ever felt any pressure to really

excell as a child, because my parents were so very uninterested in what I did

that didn't relate directly to them and there was so little that seemed to

relate to them.  It mattered much more to nada that I paid attention to her than

that I got As.  I just wasn't very good at paying attention to her and so I got

very little praise as a child for anything and when it did occur, it seemed

arbitrary and also like it meant she wanted something (which often she did).

>

> I can so relate to what you say--that doing your darndest at something and

doing it well might get you a " that's nice dear " and that was it.  My nada

alternately praised me for being as you say, the perfect Einstein child to show

off (mostly in public), and then other times (in private) yelled at me for

" thinking I was so smart. "   I could not win.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I like your take on God - really it's *God* after all, maybe He can

handle a little ranting, raving and being pissed off. I am feeling more

peaceful today though it will be a few weeks before I have a good idea on

whether my father has accepted the re-statement of the NC boundary. I can only

hope - pray.

I'm rooting for your daughter too - surely with the help she's getting there's a

very real possibility of living a more normal life and not ever being a nada.

take care,

julie

> > >

> > > ,

> > > This situation with your fada is quite a challenge, to say the least! It's

scary! Do you have any recourse legally yet as far as stalking laws, restraining

orders, etc. Maybe if he contacts you again after you've asked him not to, you

may have a way to act then. How immensely frustrating that must be!!! It makes

me want to scream for you. I can see why this would be so hard and emotionally

draining. I think I could see myself going quickly down in a tailspin in that

situation. Please keep us updated if you'd like. You should NOT have to face

this alone.

> > >

> > > I do understand very much what you are saying about just wanting the

security of a safe, strong husband who is on your side and has your back. Not so

PC a way for me to state it I guess, but I think it's what you are saying and I

know I definitely feel it myself. I know I can and will do whatever I need to in

my life, but it sure would be nice to have that kind of help and support, esp

when things get so challenging. It's also helpful to have another person's point

of view to offset my own and help me to see if I am being reasonable or not. I

don't mean to mean to put words into your mouth, but this is the feeling it

brings up in me when I read what you wrote. It truly can be overwhelming.

> > >

> > > After my husband died, my older dtr began showing signs of difficulties,

and she was eventually dx'd BPD herself. (She is now 17.)They were

extraordinarily close, as he respected her and honored her as no man had before.

Ironically, losing him played into the abandonment issues for her bigtime. I

keep wishing he was here to help us all deal with this, but if he was she likely

would not have exhibited the BPD behaviors until she was an adult and I would

not have been able to get her into the treatment I did while she is still a

minor. It's a severe mercy, I think, for lack of a better term.

> > >

> > > So yes, I think I get the gist of what you are saying. And I especially

love the wanting to know there is some big guy who'd kick someone's ass on your

behalf if necessary!!! Sometimes it is just so wearying to keep going. Please

know there are many of us here cheering you on friend, and ready and willing to

offer back the support you give to us. I'm kinda on the short side for

ass-kicking, but if you can get me someone who is a comparable size to me, I'm

in!!!

> > >

> > > Take good care,

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Another eerie similarity... its getting spooky now.

Unfortunately I remember very clearly that my nada was also very upset when it

became clear that I had to have glasses during my 3rd grade year. It had gotten

to the point where I had to walk up close to see the teacher's writing on the

blackboard which annoyed her. I guess my teacher thought I was being

disruptive. I remember going to pick up my first pair of glasses and wearing

them outside as we walked back to the car, and I was enchanted and nearly

dancing because I could see *every leaf* on the trees, and I was so happy! And

my nada looked down at me with such disappointment and sadness tinged with

disgust and wouldn't speak to me the whole way home. She made me ashamed that I

needed glasses.

I still hate that she made me feel so ashamed of something I couldn't help; why

would a mother be so damned cruel?

And I know the answer: because she's freaking mentally ill and shouldn't have

been allowed to raise children, that's why.

-Annie

> >

> > OMG that's exactly what my nada told me when I told her I was tested when I

> > was college ( I was old enough and didn't need parental permission) and had

> > dyslexia. I almost said " no, I got it from sitting on the toilet seat at

> > school !! " geeze !! I wish my teachers could have done more, but without

> > parental permission, I guess they really couldn't. I would always be

> > getting D's and F's up until the last quarter when they realized I knew the

> > stuff from class, and when they started giving me oral exams, I got A's and

> > B's !! My nada decided I got better at the end because I was afraid of

> > being held back and worked hard to improve enough to get passed along !! I

> > wonder if any of my teachers ever said anything to her about me having a

> > learning problem....I'm sure she'd deny it...the worse part of it is, like

> > your nada seeing the allergies in your nieces but not in you, my nada

> > volunteered to help dyslexic children !! I wonder if she called them lazy

> > and worthless too !! probably not as she was never mean to outsiders...

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Jackie,

> >

> > Sadly, I think your nada's inability to acknowledge or seek help for your

> > learning disabilites was because she saw it as a reflection of her own

> > inadequacies. She saw it as a slight against herself, as if you are learning

> > disabled because of her. (I used to teach spec. ed. so I know that

> > modifications can be made so students can be successful. I applaud your

> > teachers for helping you as they did) I experienced similar behavior from

> > nada. I have severe allergies and suffered as a child. Nada would not

> > acknowledge them nor would she take me to a doctor, yet she always talked

> > about her neices who had severe allergies and had to have allergy shots.

> > Several years ago I told her I had allergies and always had them. Her

> > response was " well, you didn't get them from me. " It makes no sense.

> >

> > Abby

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, that IS spooky - is there a how to be a crazy mother manual somewhere?

I honestly don't remember my mother's reaction at all in connection with my

glasses - just what she told me she felt later as I was an adult. I can imagine

since she said it brought her to tears she wasn't encouraging me to enjoy them

and feel good about it. I feel for little Annie - she should have been able to

enjoy seeing all those leaves with someone who was happy for her that she could

enjoy seeing clearly for the first time.

> > >

> > > OMG that's exactly what my nada told me when I told her I was tested when

I

> > > was college ( I was old enough and didn't need parental permission) and

had

> > > dyslexia. I almost said " no, I got it from sitting on the toilet seat at

> > > school !! " geeze !! I wish my teachers could have done more, but without

> > > parental permission, I guess they really couldn't. I would always be

> > > getting D's and F's up until the last quarter when they realized I knew

the

> > > stuff from class, and when they started giving me oral exams, I got A's

and

> > > B's !! My nada decided I got better at the end because I was afraid of

> > > being held back and worked hard to improve enough to get passed along !!

I

> > > wonder if any of my teachers ever said anything to her about me having a

> > > learning problem....I'm sure she'd deny it...the worse part of it is, like

> > > your nada seeing the allergies in your nieces but not in you, my nada

> > > volunteered to help dyslexic children !! I wonder if she called them lazy

> > > and worthless too !! probably not as she was never mean to outsiders...

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Jackie,

> > >

> > > Sadly, I think your nada's inability to acknowledge or seek help for your

> > > learning disabilites was because she saw it as a reflection of her own

> > > inadequacies. She saw it as a slight against herself, as if you are

learning

> > > disabled because of her. (I used to teach spec. ed. so I know that

> > > modifications can be made so students can be successful. I applaud your

> > > teachers for helping you as they did) I experienced similar behavior from

> > > nada. I have severe allergies and suffered as a child. Nada would not

> > > acknowledge them nor would she take me to a doctor, yet she always talked

> > > about her neices who had severe allergies and had to have allergy shots.

> > > Several years ago I told her I had allergies and always had them. Her

> > > response was " well, you didn't get them from me. " It makes no sense.

> > >

> > > Abby

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was tested for glasses at age 17; I was a married and a new mom when this

happened. My husband took me to the doctor and the doctor tested my vision.

The doctor became very angry and demanded to know my parents' names and wanted a

phone number. I would not give them to the doctor. It was the first time

anyone displayed to me that something was not right between myself and my

parents. I was stunned that anyone would critize my perfect nada LOL

When I walked out of the office with my new glasses, I thought I was up very

high and kept tapping the ground in front of me because I thought there was a

step I was standing on. It took a while for me to adjust and not feel vertigo

when I put on my glasses.

blessings, mg

> Another eerie similarity... its getting spooky now.

> Unfortunately I remember very clearly that my nada was also very upset when it

became clear that I had to have glasses during my 3rd grade year. It had gotten

to the point where I had to walk up close to see the teacher's writing on the

blackboard which annoyed her. I guess my teacher thought I was being

disruptive. I remember going to pick up my first pair of glasses and wearing

them outside as we walked back to the car, and I was enchanted and nearly

dancing because I could see *every leaf* on the trees, and I was so happy! And

my nada looked down at me with such disappointment and sadness tinged with

disgust and wouldn't speak to me the whole way home. She made me ashamed that I

needed glasses.

> I still hate that she made me feel so ashamed of something I couldn't help;

why would a mother be so damned cruel?

> And I know the answer: because she's freaking mentally ill and shouldn't have

been allowed to raise children, that's why.

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

, I always thought my nada just hated me and didn't care what happened

to me. I look back at her behavior, and it upholds this...I really dont

think she ever loved me...my siblings she was always much nicer to ( not

nice, just nicer to than to me) every thing I remember, and my sister too,

shows uncaring no compassion no worry about her children...I AM lucky the

teachers were caring enough to see and do what little they could :-) My

nada was a RN...she could be compassionate with total strangers, just not

with her own kids...how sad...and now only the golden child has anything to

do with her and fada...the rest don't even speak to them...( of course

that's because we're terrible people...it's OUR fault, not their !!)

Jackie

Jackie, my jaw is on the floor - she volunteered to help children with

dyslexia while refusing to see it in you or help you at all! I keep

thinking I can't be surprised anymore but... I'm so glad your teachers

were smart enough to see and help you.

Abby, my experience is similar any defect in me was a defect in her. She

told me that she cried when she found out I needed glasses because then I

wasn't perfect anymore. This was when I was about six - I have one snapshot

memory of standing in a line to read the eye chart, that's it...maybe

there's a reason I barely remember anything.

[Guest guest]

Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be perfect

and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was defective and

disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of the love and care

lavished on me.

In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets are

just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than nada's

needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps, if nada

needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy for it.

But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada doesn't

have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in inconvenient, or that

nada feels shame about herself because nada will re-write reality so that you do

NOT have this need so she does not have to deal with it.

That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical psychopaths.

Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of abuse that has the

neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that they're *supposed* to

take care of their child, but they just don't care to. They do enough to get

by, to not call attention to themselves, but they either don't care or actively

resent that their child needs care and attention.

The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like water

erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of obvious

damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series of drops

that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

-Annie

>

> I was tested for glasses at age 17; I was a married and a new mom when this

happened. My husband took me to the doctor and the doctor tested my vision.

The doctor became very angry and demanded to know my parents' names and wanted a

phone number. I would not give them to the doctor. It was the first time

anyone displayed to me that something was not right between myself and my

parents. I was stunned that anyone would critize my perfect nada LOL

>

> When I walked out of the office with my new glasses, I thought I was up very

high and kept tapping the ground in front of me because I thought there was a

step I was standing on. It took a while for me to adjust and not feel vertigo

when I put on my glasses.

>

> blessings, mg

>

> > Another eerie similarity... its getting spooky now.

> > Unfortunately I remember very clearly that my nada was also very upset when

it became clear that I had to have glasses during my 3rd grade year. It had

gotten to the point where I had to walk up close to see the teacher's writing on

the blackboard which annoyed her. I guess my teacher thought I was being

disruptive. I remember going to pick up my first pair of glasses and wearing

them outside as we walked back to the car, and I was enchanted and nearly

dancing because I could see *every leaf* on the trees, and I was so happy! And

my nada looked down at me with such disappointment and sadness tinged with

disgust and wouldn't speak to me the whole way home. She made me ashamed that I

needed glasses.

> > I still hate that she made me feel so ashamed of something I couldn't help;

why would a mother be so damned cruel?

> > And I know the answer: because she's freaking mentally ill and shouldn't

have been allowed to raise children, that's why.

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

that's a terrible thing to do to a child...make them feel guilty for

something that is out of their control ( and is genetic, so it was nadas

fault LOL) My nada always told my sister to only wear her glasses when she

really had to, and not in front of boys or they wouldn't ask her out !!

Jackie

Another eerie similarity... its getting spooky now.

Unfortunately I remember very clearly that my nada was also very upset when

it became clear that I had to have glasses during my 3rd grade year. It had

gotten to the point where I had to walk up close to see the teacher's

writing on the blackboard which annoyed her. I guess my teacher thought I

was being disruptive. I remember going to pick up my first pair of glasses

and wearing them outside as we walked back to the car, and I was enchanted

and nearly dancing because I could see *every leaf* on the trees, and I was

so happy! And my nada looked down at me with such disappointment and

sadness tinged with disgust and wouldn't speak to me the whole way home.

She made me ashamed that I needed glasses.

I still hate that she made me feel so ashamed of something I couldn't help;

why would a mother be so damned cruel?

And I know the answer: because she's freaking mentally ill and shouldn't

have been allowed to raise children, that's why.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

I have severe ADHD. I was finally diagnosed at 28. I felt so guitly getting

diagnosed, even though I had known since I was 15 that I was. What finally sent

me to get diagnosed and treated was my daughter. When she was 6, I heard the

same words out of my mouth that my NADA always said to me. And, I wanted better

for her. I knew she had ADHD but I had to struggle with the concept that it was

okay to get her help.

I got her help, she got her life back. And then I realized it wasn't fair to

ask her to accept help while refusing to take it for myself. Starting treatment

for ADHD was like stepping off a roller coaster I never agreed to ride. It was

amazing to think so clearly and without distractions for the first time in my

life.

I told NADA that I was diagnosed and getting treatment. Don't know why I

bothered. That was pre-NC and I kept hoping she would care. Her response was

that of course she had known I was since I was 4...but she never wanted her

children 'labeled' so she never got me help.

I've got a kid brother who has mild Cerebral palsy. His foster home got him

early and aggressive intervention, so he doesn't know in his physical

appearance. However, CP involves learning disabilities, which he definitely

has. He's never been told he was diagnosed with CP at 6 months. He's never

been told that CP causes learning disabilities. And, he's never been told that

he shows clear signs of LDs. He's just been left to flounder academically and

think he's stupid because of his LDs. Because, as all of you seem to be

commenting in a recurring theme, a child with disabilities reflects poorly on

NADA and cannot be allowed /rolleyes.

Johanna

To: WTOAdultChildren1

From: anuria-67854@...

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 05:24:17 +0000

Subject: Re: struggling with anger about how it is

Another eerie similarity... its getting spooky now.

Unfortunately I remember very clearly that my nada was also very upset when it

became clear that I had to have glasses during my 3rd grade year. It had gotten

to the point where I had to walk up close to see the teacher's writing on the

blackboard which annoyed her. I guess my teacher thought I was being disruptive.

I remember going to pick up my first pair of glasses and wearing them outside as

we walked back to the car, and I was enchanted and nearly dancing because I

could see *every leaf* on the trees, and I was so happy! And my nada looked down

at me with such disappointment and sadness tinged with disgust and wouldn't

speak to me the whole way home. She made me ashamed that I needed glasses.

I still hate that she made me feel so ashamed of something I couldn't help; why

would a mother be so damned cruel?

And I know the answer: because she's freaking mentally ill and shouldn't have

been allowed to raise children, that's why.

-Annie

> >

> > OMG that's exactly what my nada told me when I told her I was tested when I

> > was college ( I was old enough and didn't need parental permission) and had

> > dyslexia. I almost said " no, I got it from sitting on the toilet seat at

> > school !! " geeze !! I wish my teachers could have done more, but without

> > parental permission, I guess they really couldn't. I would always be

> > getting D's and F's up until the last quarter when they realized I knew the

> > stuff from class, and when they started giving me oral exams, I got A's and

> > B's !! My nada decided I got better at the end because I was afraid of

> > being held back and worked hard to improve enough to get passed along !! I

> > wonder if any of my teachers ever said anything to her about me having a

> > learning problem....I'm sure she'd deny it...the worse part of it is, like

> > your nada seeing the allergies in your nieces but not in you, my nada

> > volunteered to help dyslexic children !! I wonder if she called them lazy

> > and worthless too !! probably not as she was never mean to outsiders...

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Jackie,

> >

> > Sadly, I think your nada's inability to acknowledge or seek help for your

> > learning disabilites was because she saw it as a reflection of her own

> > inadequacies. She saw it as a slight against herself, as if you are learning

> > disabled because of her. (I used to teach spec. ed. so I know that

> > modifications can be made so students can be successful. I applaud your

> > teachers for helping you as they did) I experienced similar behavior from

> > nada. I have severe allergies and suffered as a child. Nada would not

> > acknowledge them nor would she take me to a doctor, yet she always talked

> > about her neices who had severe allergies and had to have allergy shots.

> > Several years ago I told her I had allergies and always had them. Her

> > response was " well, you didn't get them from me. " It makes no sense.

> >

> > Abby

> >

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.

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[Guest guest]

As a teacher, I just have to express how much I just cannot stand parents who

refuse to acknowledge their kids need help or to pursue the help that's

available.  Telling a parent their kid may have an LD or ADHD/ADD is not

something I approach lightly or often, but I will do it if I feel very

concerned.  The thing is, as a teacher, there is very little I can do except

make very mild accomodations that probably don't help much.  I can ask for the

kid to be tested, but everyone and their yak needs to agree that the testing is

a good idea, and since the testing is expensive and having a kid labeled as LD

involves extra cost to the school, in most cases everyone and their yak does not

agree about the necessity of testing, and so it is usually an exercise in

futility for me to do ask.  Also, I think sometimes even well-meaning people

believe it's hard on a kid to be " labeled, " but what they don't seem to realize

is that the kid is already being labeled in

much more harmful and less accurate ways.

On the other hand, if a parent requests testing, the school is not allowed to

refuse.  They must conduct the appropriate tests, even if the parent is being

delusional and there are no signs at all of LD.

And it means so much to the kid sometimes to know it's a LD and they aren't just

stupid or lazy.  Why a parent would let their kid suffer unnecessarily for

something that really can be managed much better if more is known, I just really

cannot grasp.  If the kid turns out not to have an LD, well, fine, nothing is

lost except a few hours.   But if they are, it can help so much just for them to

understand what is going on with them.

Of course, in our cases, it's because our parents were mentally ill.  But it

just makes me so angry.

Ashana

Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.

Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

As a parent, I am on the other side and let me tell you it isn't easy. I have a

son with a physical disability and it affects his writing. I also have

concerns that he has ADHD. The school will NOT help me. I've been to them

twice. They told me it is my fault he can't write because I told him there is

something wrong with his hand.

The poor kid couldn't keep up writing in preschool and was made fun of. Of

COURSE I told him his hand works differently than others and it is more

challenging for him but he can do anything they can do with a little extra work.

I do not want my child's self esteem to suffer because he can't keep up in a

classroom. I want him to have the support he needs and deserves. And I'll keep

on fighting but it is really hard.

As a parent on the other side, I am ALL FOR getting my child extra help so he

can keep up and feel good about himself. I appreciate when a teacher picks

something up and wants to investigate a possible concern. But the school seems

to be playing the " blame game " and won't step up to the plate.

I know some parents are in denial and don't want to hear it, but I know that

some schools also don't want to step in and help.

>

> As a teacher, I just have to express how much I just cannot stand parents who

refuse to acknowledge their kids need help or to pursue the help that's

available.  Telling a parent their kid may have an LD or ADHD/ADD is not

something I approach lightly or often, but I will do it if I feel very

concerned.  The thing is, as a teacher, there is very little I can do except

make very mild accomodations that probably don't help much.  I can ask for the

kid to be tested, but everyone and their yak needs to agree that the testing is

a good idea, and since the testing is expensive and having a kid labeled as LD

involves extra cost to the school, in most cases everyone and their yak does not

agree about the necessity of testing, and so it is usually an exercise in

futility for me to do ask.  Also, I think sometimes even well-meaning people

believe it's hard on a kid to be " labeled, " but what they don't seem to realize

is that the kid is already being labeled in

> much more harmful and less accurate ways.

>

> On the other hand, if a parent requests testing, the school is not allowed to

refuse.  They must conduct the appropriate tests, even if the parent is being

delusional and there are no signs at all of LD.

>

> And it means so much to the kid sometimes to know it's a LD and they aren't

just stupid or lazy.  Why a parent would let their kid suffer unnecessarily for

something that really can be managed much better if more is known, I just really

cannot grasp.  If the kid turns out not to have an LD, well, fine, nothing is

lost except a few hours.   But if they are, it can help so much just for them to

understand what is going on with them.

>

> Of course, in our cases, it's because our parents were mentally ill.  But it

just makes me so angry.

>

> Ashana

>

>

> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.

Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas eye

when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother to

be towards her child.

Jackie

Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

the love and care lavished on me.

In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets

are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than

nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps,

if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

for it.

But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

deal with it.

That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of

abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that

they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care to.

They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

attention.

The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series

of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Realmom,

I so know what you mean.

IMHO, you are doing what a good parent does.  You asked for help, when you

didn't get it, you asked for it again.  Persistence is sometimes the name of the

game.  I don't get why this is, but sometimes LDs don't also show up until

later--at least as far as the tests are concerned.  I had a student a few years

back that had been tested a few times, and when he was finally tested again at

16, he was diagnosed with a visual processing disorder, which made complete

sense to me as his teacher--he seemed to need extra time to process things and

he seemed to often need help matching the visual with the oral information.  It

makes no sense to me that it would take that long to be diagnosible, since you

don't usually just develop an LD at that age.  Anyway, I appreciate the ways you

are trying to help your son even if his current set of teachers don't.

Does your son only have trouble with writing words, or does he also have trouble

with drawing or other tasks involving fine-motor coordination?  Does it seem to

affect things like fastening buttons and does it affect just his dominant hand,

or both hands?  Is he also an especially slow runner?

Let me know.

Best,

Ashana

See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out

Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

They're insane.

>

> Jackie, my jaw is on the floor - she volunteered to help children with

dyslexia while refusing to see it in you or help you at all! I keep thinking I

can't be surprised anymore but... I'm so glad your teachers were smart enough

to see and help you.

>

> Abby, my experience is similar any defect in me was a defect in her. She told

me that she cried when she found out I needed glasses because then I wasn't

perfect anymore. This was when I was about six - I have one snapshot memory of

standing in a line to read the eye chart, that's it...maybe there's a reason I

barely remember anything.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes! The glint in the eyes. It's like a crazed animal who is out of control.

Sometimes she seems almost giddy.

>

> they have to be psychopaths of some sort. I've seen that glint in nadas eye

> when she's being especially nasty and hurtful, a scary look to

> see.......like she's really enjoying it...totally NOT normal for a mother to

> be towards her child.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Seems that several of us suffered from a bpd's need for her child to be

> perfect and/or maintenance-free. I too was made keenly aware that I was

> defective and disappointing in several regards and therefor not worthy of

> the love and care lavished on me.

>

> In some ways it ties in with other stories shared here about nadas who also

> neglect their small pets' needs for proper medical care. Children and pets

> are just objects, and things that belong to nada don't have needs other than

> nada's needs. You get fed if nada is hungry, you get medical care, perhaps,

> if nada needs it or can gain some kind of positive attention and sympathy

> for it.

>

> But God forbid you have a condition or an illness or an injury that nada

> doesn't have, that reflects badly on nada, that is expensive, in

> inconvenient, or that nada feels shame about herself because nada will

> re-write reality so that you do NOT have this need so she does not have to

> deal with it.

>

> That's why I'm beginning to wonder if nadas are just sub-clinical

> psychopaths. Most of the time nadas manage to stay just under the level of

> abuse that has the neighbors calling the cops. They know on some level that

> they're *supposed* to take care of their child, but they just don't care to.

> They do enough to get by, to not call attention to themselves, but they

> either don't care or actively resent that their child needs care and

> attention.

>

> The kind of abuses and the level of abuses the kids of bpds endure is like

> water erosion. Although there are sometimes big floods that do a lot of

> obvious damage, most of the time its simply a relentless, continuous series

> of drops that wears away stone. Its cumulative damage.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

thats for sure !! it's funny how much clearer I can see things once I went

NC and the guilt has subsided...

Jackie

They're insane.