Re: Second Surgery

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You sound so much like me. I too started this process along

time ago (1989). I started with the VBG and also due to

pregnancy I blew the staple line. I didn't go back in right

away. I let myself gain back a lot of the weight. I started

at 425+ and lost down to 280. Then gained back to 380. In

1994 I finally put away my shame of failure and went back to

the surgeons office. He suggested a revision to a Gastric

Bypass. Back then they didn't have the different names as they

do now. I just recently found out that I am considered a

Distal Bypass. Since 1994 I have once gotten down to 250 and

seemed to stablize there for about 4 years. Then things got

real bad for me personally and I went to the doctor and she

put me on Paxil. I then gained back up to 280 and was

feeling like a complete failure. Since October of 1999 I have

started to realize that I'm not a failure I just have a lot of

things to figure out in my life. I have to learn how to like

myself so I can do the things that I know are important and

necessary to live a happy healthy life. I haven't quite figured

it out yet, but I'm working on it. I have an addiction to food

and I need to get help to beat it. I will never be normal until

I can beat this addiction. My main problem is sugar and unfortunately

sugar does not affect me very often. I have managed to loose back

down to 255, but am having a hard time getting past that mark. My

body doesn't want to and neither does my mind. I'm sabotaging

myself everytime I turn around. I do know however, that if I didn't

have this tool to work with I would probably be house bound and

unable to walk. So, I think that if you decide to do it, the best

thing you can do is stay in touch with any kind of support you can

and they will help you through the rough spots. I didn't do that

and I feel like I have wasted this tool that was given to me for a

lot of years. Good luck to you and I hope this gives you a little

of the information you were looking for. Keep in touch.

My work e-mail is michelle.long@...

Home e-mail is Longfamily5@...

Best of luck to you.

Mich

[Guest guest]

Beth--

I also started out with the vbg. I didn't gain with my vbg, it failed and I

couldn't STOP losing weight. But with all the stories I've read here, I have

to say that these have been the exception, not the rule. Proportionally,

there are only a handful of cases that have had revision to rny because of

failure, and those failures have largely been at their own hand. There are

lists dedicated to those who have had ONLY vbg which are full of success

stories. Hundreds there have also lost thousands of pounds. To suggest that

docs stop doing a procedure simply because a few have regained their weight,

due to their own negligence I might add, would deny an entire segment of the

obese population the chance at weight loss. I have friends who would not

survive with rny, simply could not adhere to all the dietary restrictions.

And I know others, and have heard of many, who have sabotaged their rny as

well. You can circumvent the surgical tool and maintain and even gain weight

with rny as well--it is NOT a cure for obesity. Vbg may not have been right

for you, and certainly didn't turn out to be a safe choice for me either, but

that doesn't mean that it is totally wrong for everyone. But if my body

didn't reject it the way it did, I would have been very satisfied with that

procedure. So, please don't generalize, ok?

--El

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/16/2000 5:13:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Elfeline@... writes:

> But if my body

> didn't reject it the way it did, I would have been very satisfied with

that

> procedure. So, please don't generalize, ok?

> --El

El, when we generalize we are not trying to pick on anyone . . . My surgeon

did VBG for years, but he saw way too high a rate of failure to feel

comfortable performing major surgery to get such dismal results. As far as

success statistics go, no greater than 15% or less of ALL WLS patients

achieve and maintain ideal weight regardless of the procedure! So it goes to

show that surgery whatever kind, is just a tool, and that we still have to

" get right with food " or face less than successful outcomes . . .

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

Vicki--

You're right about the procedure as being a tool. But there are as many docs

out there who have many success stories with vbg and continue to perform the

procedure with lots of good results. My doc agrees with me that not everyone

can handle the serious dietary restrictions of the rny. I know people

personally who would be doomed to fail with this procedure...from what I've

experienced myself so far, and that has been limited. And I've had a lot of

good advice going into this from folks on this list. With me, it was a life

saving conversion--I literally had no choice except to give up and die. I

don't mean to suggest that anyone is picking on vbg'ers, but one really doesn'

t know the whole story until s/he has experienced it first hand. And having

had both procedures, and not failing because I re-gained my weight at my own

hand, I guess that I don't feel as negative as some others feel about vbg. I

do know that it has saved many lives as well and would otherwise deny many

people the opportunity at weight loss without it. And just because some

doctors have certain opinions about the procedure doesn't mean that all do

and that the procedure itself should be outlawed. I know that my vbg could

be revised and converted, which it was, but if things should go as wrong with

this rny, what on earth will they be able to do then? Will I be condemned to

a life with a feeding tube now that my stomach has been irreversibly

bypassed? Or will I be simply be condemned? It's never very far from my

thoughts these days as I continue to struggle with the issues of my

malnutrition and inability to eat, along with the pain I still have every

time I eat.

Well, I didn't mean to pick on anyone either, and don't mean to suggest that

I'm sorry I had either procedure. As I've said many times before, even with

all I've been through, I'd do it all over again--even if they told me it

would mean 6 more abdominal surgeries and 2 years more out of my life. But I

think that vbg remains a viable surgical solution to the obesity problem, one

that does indeed work for many people. I know that we are primarily rny

here, but let's not work so hard to discourage anyone, despite our own

opinions.

--El

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/16/2000 6:18:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Elfeline@... writes:

> I

> don't mean to suggest that anyone is picking on vbg'ers, but one really

> doesn'

> t know the whole story until s/he has experienced it first hand. And

having

>

> had both procedures, and not failing because I re-gained my weight at my

own

>

> hand, I guess that I don't feel as negative as some others feel about vbg.

> I

> do know that it has saved many lives as well and would otherwise deny many

> people the opportunity at weight loss without it. And just because some

> doctors have certain opinions about the procedure doesn't mean that all do

> and that the procedure itself should be outlawed. I know that my vbg

could

> be revised and converted, which it was, but if things should go as wrong

> with

> this rny, what on earth will they be able to do then? Will I be condemned

> to

> a life with a feeding tube now that my stomach has been irreversibly

> bypassed? Or will I be simply be condemned? It's never very far from my

> thoughts these days as I continue to struggle with the issues of my

> malnutrition and inability to eat, along with the pain I still have every

> time I eat.

>

> Well, I didn't mean to pick on anyone either, and don't mean to suggest

that

>

> I'm sorry I had either procedure. As I've said many times before, even

with

>

> all I've been through, I'd do it all over again--even if they told me it

> would mean 6 more abdominal surgeries and 2 years more out of my life.

But

> I

> think that vbg remains a viable surgical solution to the obesity problem,

> one

> that does indeed work for many people. I know that we are primarily rny

> here, but let's not work so hard to discourage anyone, despite our own

> opinions.

I don't know about anyone else's RNY surgery but mine is reversible. No, I

can't go back 100% to how I was pre op, but my stomach is reversible as is my

intestinal bypass. I hope that never has to happen, but if it did, I am OK

with food now, so regain would not be a huge concern to me. I actually did

consider VBG and lap band as well, but the stats vs the other procedures were

not as encouraging, and the need for revisions of all kinds including

situations like your VBG, is much higher than with RNY. I just wanted to do

something that gave me best opportunity to only have to do it once. It has

been a great tool and it did for me what I needed it to, it gave me the

confidence to learn how to eat without dieting and I am healthier and happier

because of it. I don't fault anyone for having the VBG procedure and stats

do show they can be just as successful as anyone with any other surgery. . .

.. Kris (the ministers wife) is a friend and a great VBG success story!

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/16/2000 7:02:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,

zedora@... writes:

>

>

> Oh, I used to enjoy reading her posts from OSSG way back when... nice

> to see that she is around & doing well!

Kris is not just doing well, she is on cloud nine! In October she gave birth

to a healthy baby boy! Prior to her VBG and weight loss she was infertile .

.. . soon as she just about hit goal BAM! A dream come true! And let me tell

you, Isaac is an absolute doll!

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

Oh, I used to enjoy reading her posts from OSSG way back when... nice

to see that she is around & doing well!

Trish

>From: HaaseVP@...

>. Kris (the ministers wife) is a friend and a great VBG success story!

>Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

,

In response to RNY verse VBG'S I think you said it just right.

Orlando Sue

[Guest guest]

El:

I have met several people who have had the VBG and are very successful, but

I believe most doctors now prefer to do the RNY because of the incidence of

re-operation, and the general failure to lose quite as much weight. I'm not

sure what you mean about the severe dietary restrictions of the RNY. I have

no dietary restrictions whatsoever, including moderate amounts of sugar.

Wish I did sometimes.

I certainly *do not* believe that a VBG is doomed to failure because of the

successes I've seen, but I certainly *would* encourage anyone I talk to

about WLS to consider the RNY which has statistically better results.

Actually, the statistics for both procedures surpass any other method of

weight loss by such a long shot that it's almost splitting hairs. Virtually

nothing besides WLS works for weight loss in excess of 100 pounds. I don't

think you have to experience a certain procedure to decide which is better.

We know from this list that success with any surgery is an individual

matter, just like response to any other surgery. Even the best cosmetic

surgeon can perform the same procedure on different people and their bodies

respond in different ways.

I do feel badly for VBGs who hear that RNY is probably more successful, but

agree that doesn't doom anyone to failure. If I had heard that about the

RNY, I might be more prone to discouragement but more careful about my

behavior.

Just another $.02

Bandas

Austin, TX

RNY 4-28-98, Dr. Selinkoff, San , TX

Then: 305 Now: 180

125 pounds gone forever!

Re: Second Surgery

> From: Elfeline@...

>

> Vicki--

>

> You're right about the procedure as being a tool. But there are as many

docs

> out there who have many success stories with vbg and continue to perform

the

> procedure with lots of good results. My doc agrees with me that not

everyone

> can handle the serious dietary restrictions of the rny. I know people

> personally who would be doomed to fail with this procedure...from what

I've

> experienced myself so far, and that has been limited. And I've had a lot

of

> good advice going into this from folks on this list. With me, it was a

life

> saving conversion--I literally had no choice except to give up and die. I

> don't mean to suggest that anyone is picking on vbg'ers, but one really

doesn'

> t know the whole story until s/he has experienced it first hand. And

having

> had both procedures, and not failing because I re-gained my weight at my

own

> hand, I guess that I don't feel as negative as some others feel about vbg.

I

> do know that it has saved many lives as well and would otherwise deny many

> people the opportunity at weight loss without it. And just because some

> doctors have certain opinions about the procedure doesn't mean that all do

> and that the procedure itself should be outlawed. I know that my vbg

could

> be revised and converted, which it was, but if things should go as wrong

with

> this rny, what on earth will they be able to do then? Will I be condemned

to

> a life with a feeding tube now that my stomach has been irreversibly

> bypassed? Or will I be simply be condemned? It's never very far from my

> thoughts these days as I continue to struggle with the issues of my

> malnutrition and inability to eat, along with the pain I still have every

> time I eat.

>

> Well, I didn't mean to pick on anyone either, and don't mean to suggest

that

> I'm sorry I had either procedure. As I've said many times before, even

with

> all I've been through, I'd do it all over again--even if they told me it

> would mean 6 more abdominal surgeries and 2 years more out of my life.

But I

> think that vbg remains a viable surgical solution to the obesity problem,

one

> that does indeed work for many people. I know that we are primarily rny

> here, but let's not work so hard to discourage anyone, despite our own

> opinions.

> --El

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Yes, Kris is one of the success stories that I know about personally. But

there are many others, too. And what about so many of the rny's here that

had to be revised? How about our own Vitalady?

[Guest guest]

--

I think it's unfair of folks who haven't had the vbg to put it down so

vehemently with no experience under their belts. While we can all spout

stats, we really cannot advise anyone of what will happen to them, or how

relatively unsuccessful their weight loss will be, without having gone

through the procedure and no first hand knowledge and experience. I do know

that there are some folks on this list who feel so uncomfortable with the way

vbg is put down--and that was their procedure of choice--that they have

talked to me about " unsub " ing or not participating. And a year out of vbg is

still a grad post-op. What I meant about the dietary restrictions are the

inability to process sugar and fat and intolerance to dairy experienced by

most people with rny. Although very proximal as I am, I cannot tolerate any

sugar or milk besides yogurt and have serious trouble with fat and high fat

foods. I know of at least a couple of vbgers who have been very successful

with that surgery, more than 100# lost, who could not give up eating at least

some sugar and, quite frankly, would not have had wls had rny been the only

choice. Boy, what a waste that would have been for them. I'm glad to hear

someone say at least a few positive things about vbg, especially since he

hasn't had the procedure.

[Guest guest]

El:

Your notion that one has to have had a VBG to be able to advise anyone what

their outcome will be seems kind of unusual. As an RNY, I feel very

fortunate in my outcome, but certainly don't feel like I can tell *anyone*

what their outcome will be with the RNY. I'm amazed when I hear what

other's experiences are like, both good and bad. I can eat more than

some....scary. I have never, ever thrown up....incredible.

Can you really tell anyone with a VBG what their outcome will be just

because you had it? Everyone's experience with both procedures vary wildly.

If I need heart surgery, I will research the doctors, the outcomes, the

literature to make a decision *before* I go through with it. I was

scheduled for a VBG and made the personal choice myself to have the RNY

based on reading the websites of many doctors, articles, etc. I did

research. I didn't go through it first. I hear things on this list that

scare me about the RNY, but I'm confident I made the right choice for

myself. If VBG was the only choice offered to me, I would have had it in a

heartbeat and like to feel I would have made it work. I presume people who

chose the VBG went through the same due diligence and study and made their

personal choices.

This seems to be an emotional issue for some people and I would probably

feel sensitive to these comments if I had a VBG. But as I stated earlier,

the differences statistically are small relative to the alternative of no

WLS at all. When all is said and done, 50% of people losing 50% of their

excess weight which covers both procedures from what my doctor told me is

still far superior than " dieting. "

,

responding to the inevitable VBG/RNY thread. It happens on all good lists

:::-) (More eyes than stomach.)

Re: Second Surgery

> From: Elfeline@...

>

> --

>

> I think it's unfair of folks who haven't had the vbg to put it down so

> vehemently with no experience under their belts. While we can all spout

> stats, we really cannot advise anyone of what will happen to them, or how

> relatively unsuccessful their weight loss will be, without having gone

> through the procedure and no first hand knowledge and experience. I do

know

> that there are some folks on this list who feel so uncomfortable with the

way

> vbg is put down--and that was their procedure of choice--that they have

> talked to me about " unsub " ing or not participating. And a year out of vbg

is

> still a grad post-op. What I meant about the dietary restrictions are the

> inability to process sugar and fat and intolerance to dairy experienced by

> most people with rny. Although very proximal as I am, I cannot tolerate

any

> sugar or milk besides yogurt and have serious trouble with fat and high

fat

> foods. I know of at least a couple of vbgers who have been very

successful

> with that surgery, more than 100# lost, who could not give up eating at

least

> some sugar and, quite frankly, would not have had wls had rny been the

only

> choice. Boy, what a waste that would have been for them. I'm glad to

hear

> someone say at least a few positive things about vbg, especially since he

> hasn't had the procedure.

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

--

You're right, I couldn't advise folks about vbg's outcome in their particular

case--and I stand corrected. But I can tell them how things feel, what foods

caused me problems, etc, and what I went through with certainty. And I can

also tell them that I would do it all over again in heartbeat. I would have

been perfectly satisfied with my own vbg alone, had my body not tried to

overcompensate for the alteration and almost kill me in the process. I lost

ALL of my weight with the vbg--it's only been since the rny have I actually

put ON some weight. And I've been reading more than a couple posts from grad

rny'ers who have pined about re-gaining some or much of their lost weight.

Yes, it is an emotional issue for a lot of people. And when some people feel

made fun of, or put down, and don't want to participate in a discussion going

on in an e-mail community because of others' comments, then things are going

too far.

I think that what I meant was that without having the particular procedure,

it was not fair for some to put down the vbg so vehemently and spout stats

they may have read or heard about which aren't particularly accurate. As a

matter of fact, I've now talked to 3 people who had ONLY vbg who have lost

considerable amounts of weight who took offense to this particular

discussion. And here's a portion from a letter I received from another

vbg-er:

" I'm on 3 VBG support lists and I know that 95% of these men and women

are very pleased with their results and those that are 12 - 18 months post-op

have or have just about reached their goal weights according to their height.

This 60% success rate for VBG is nonsense! VBG, for the most part and with

few exceptions, is as successful as the individual makes it to be. "

So you see, I'm not trying to convince anyone to have any one procedure over

another. But I really feel that tact and consideration is absolutely

necessary. After all, this is supposed to be a grad OSSG list, not a grad

rny list. And that should mean that vbg'ers are just as welcome. Let's

make them feel that way, ok? There is so much discussion here that is not

only relevent, but extremely helpful, and is to them as well. But , I

appreciate your candor and your at least giving vbg the benefit of some

doubt. It's more than has been given by some others.

--El

[Guest guest]

El, I know you didn't address this to me... I am one of those with

the rny that doesn't have any dietary restrictions other than those

that I place upon myself. I tolerate EVERYTHING & I never throw up,

never. I believe I am someone who would not have to try all that

hard to sabotage my weight loss & regain my weight. I doubt I will

ever stop wanting to be thin... I know they didn't operate on my

brain, & if they ever do start operating on brains for weight & hunger

management, I might just have to look into it )

Trish

>From: Elfeline@...

>

>Beth--

>obese population the chance at weight loss. I have friends who would not

>survive with rny, simply could not adhere to all the dietary restrictions.

>And I know others, and have heard of many, who have sabotaged their rny as

>well. You can circumvent the surgical tool and maintain and even gain weight

>with rny as well--it is NOT a cure for obesity. Vbg may not have been right

[Guest guest]

Dan,

I am very distal having had the biliopancreatic diversion form of RNY. My

surgeon leaves a larger stomach (he removes about 85%) so we can eventually

eat a normal size meal. Normal for a thin person, not normal from our obese

days, thank goodness.

There is a definite relationship between malabsorbtion and the affect of the

lapse/relapse syndrome. If you figure that 1 gram of fat equals 9 calories (4

each for protein and CARBS) then the fact that more distal RNYers don't

absorb much, if any, fat then you are actually absorbing fewer calories too.

Reducing CARBS also cuts the amount of intake that will eventually turn to

fat if not burned off.

I find that I can eat more the longer postop I get (now about 16 months) but

I religiously stay away from sugar and red meat (doesn't digest well in me)

and a lot of CARBS. I do have my days when I can't seem to get enough CARBS

and so I just do it and then lay off for several days. I have occasional

lapses in judgment, but the more distal surgery prevents the lapse from

turning into a disaster or a total relapse.

There are times when I can eat a lot and feel fine and then there are times

when I eat a lot less and feel awful. The one predicable thing about this

surgery is its unpredictability. One night I ate a small amount of food that

I usually eat and I got sick as dog and threw up for the first time in

months. Still don't know why. Some foods are fine and then suddenly it causes

a negative reaction. Spinach did this recently. I've eaten it before, but one

day this week it went right through me and was barely digested. Go figure.

As you can see its late at night and I am rambling. Take care.

BobA

[Guest guest]

I get the idea, a lot of rny's develop a tolerance after a while...but, that

tolerance (so I'm told) subsides with the lack of input...ie, if you build up a

tolerance to sugar, you'll lose that tolerance should you go no-sugar for a

while. I've noted something like that in my own experience....some days, no

problemo...other days, someone call 911!<G>

I wonder...out loud, that is....if VBG patients had to go through the " you're

not

a candidate for WLS until you've shown that you've had at least 3 medically

supervised diets that have failed, etc.etc.... " constraint that I had to go

through. One, it was required by my insuror to show that other methods were

used

but to no success and Two, I feel that my previous experience with liquid diet

fasts and regaining are instrumental to showing me what I could do

wrong...again.

Of the former, my insurance company would rather have any excuse to not pay...

but

pay they did.

But the latter, I do recall that after I lost quite a bit in the OptiFast

program,

the first success was somewhat like the " Honeymoon period " after WLS. I thought

I

was cured...really. I fell right back into habits without even considering the

outcome until it was too late...and then I was back in the loop. For me...I've

done that FIVE times...and I learned each time that it's pretty easy to ruin

months of going without to sacrifice that effort for no real good reason.

I spose what I'm saying, I recognize that I do get hungry...but, I'm not

physically hungry as much as I'd simply like something to gnosh. But, at the

same

time...I recognize that signal from past experience and factor that in which

tends

to put me back on the right mindset. The key to watch for....for me, maybe you

too...is the difference between " lapse " and " relapse. " We all will lapse with

something...a lapse in judgement; a lapse of discretion; a total lapse of

control

at Baskin Robbins!<G>

But....a lapse is going to take place; the relapse or routine is the problem

child

to watch out for. I can see where someone would get an anxious moment or two by

a

lapse in judgement while perusing the refrigerator...but, it's not the time to

have a fit; when that trip to refrigerator becomes a compulsion and one can't

stop...that would be time to call in the troops about what started the loop.

As for not being a cure...I disagree with Elfeline because it does seem to have

a

pretty good and long term track record for many of the people I've met in the

past

few years. I do beleive that my rny promotes not only a better health due to my

exclusions of various foods and drinks; but the malabsorption of much of the

fats

that would find it's way into the system normally never have the opportunity to

get involved. She may have " heard of many, who have sabotaged their rny... "

but,

I've heard of many that have not...in fact, the ratio is exponentially greater

in

success than not.

The dietary restrictions for me...are no longer restrictions. This is just the

way I live now. I can still go a steakhouse and order a 28oz porterhouse steak

and eat the whole thing!!

It just takes me five days to do it.<G> And that...is not a restriction...it's

just the only thing I can do now. As facts have it....I've had a total of 3

portions of beef, steak or tenderloin in the past 14 months. It's just not that

big a deal any longer. And I used to knock down a steak, potato, onions, salad,

a

bowl of roasted peanuts before dinner...and a dessert afterwards (but, I never

did

eat that much<G>)(I thought!!). And now...it just doesn't matter. I can't eat

that much...ever again, and I don't have the overpowering need for satiety (with

food) as before. I could probably sabotage my rny with crackers, chips and

other

crumbly high fat foods... but I've gotten past the need for those as well.

I think that's the key. Most Optifast programs are 13 weeks long...the reason

is

simple; the shrinks allow that bad habits will be forgotten in 3 months

time...and

then it's up to the individual to maintain new, good habits. The same applies

here as well, I've forgotten what the need was for some of my old favorite foods

because I've had enough time to overcome them. I think this is where the

dietary

experience as mandated by some doctors and Insurance groups come in. There's a

bigger span of time from the direct effects of surgery to relearn and rethink

one's daily requirements. As well, the secondary effects of surgery (the

dumping,

malabsorption of fats, and limited pouce size) continues that same re-learning

experience for many weeks and months.

I can't think of anything more disheartening than to go through the WLS and then

not have the experience of knowing what will compromise the success of the

surgery

and immediately go into habits that jeopardize the outcome. I do think that it

should be required that those seeking the WLS have had sufficient medically

supervised attempts at dieting...so one has the experience to recognize:

Lapse and relapse

What foods can be used to compromise the WLS

What common signals can be misread to start a feeding frenzy

...as well as recognize health problems that can lead to someone feeding

themselves to feel better (ie. stokin' the furnace).

Anyhow...I do tend to get chatty and verbose...don't I?<G> But, I do disagree

in

the fact that I do feel that the RnY is and can be a cure for obesity and there

seems to be sufficient proof to qualify that statement.

Have a good weekend y'all!

Dan

rny 10.13.98

waaaaaaaaay down

Trish wrote:

>

>

> El, I know you didn't address this to me... I am one of those with

> the rny that doesn't have any dietary restrictions other than those

> that I place upon myself. I tolerate EVERYTHING & I never throw up,

> never. I believe I am someone who would not have to try all that

> hard to sabotage my weight loss & regain my weight. I doubt I will

> ever stop wanting to be thin... I know they didn't operate on my

> brain, & if they ever do start operating on brains for weight & hunger

> management, I might just have to look into it )

> Trish

>

>

> >From: Elfeline@...

> >

> >Beth--

> >obese population the chance at weight loss. I have friends who would not

> >survive with rny, simply could not adhere to all the dietary restrictions.

> >And I know others, and have heard of many, who have sabotaged their rny as

> >well. You can circumvent the surgical tool and maintain and even gain weight

> >with rny as well--it is NOT a cure for obesity. Vbg may not have been right

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Trish--

I'm right behind you. Last I heard, though, they don't do labotomies for

weight loss...LOL I guess that I'm glad that I still react to certain foods.

I don't want to get back on that merry-go-round with the sweets. Although

the dumping episodes are becoming fewer and farther in between. I'd like to

think it's just because I've successfully re-trained myself to eat healthier

foods, but I know myself too well to think that's the case. Ah well....

--El

[Guest guest]

Dan--

I didn't only " hear " of people sabatoging their rny procedures, I've seen the

results. I know of a rny gal in RI who is good friends with my cousin who

had vbg. My cousin is back on track losing with her vbg after a painful and

messy divorce while her friend is back up to 600 pounds with her rny....so,

it does happen. This gal doesn't eat chips or sweets, but I've sat there and

watched her eat an entire chicken in one sitting. So, while YOU may not be

able to eat as much as before, that doesn't mean that ALL rny'ers are that

fortunate. And what about Sharon, aka , who's been posting and asking

Vitalady about her recent revision? She's been up in arms about her recent

weight gain and her doc's answer to her was to stop eating so much. And if

we want to be totally honest, there are many others out there like these two

examples.

I've never heard of a doctor who would suggest that wls of any kind were a

" cure " for obesity. Even Dr Fobi on the 48 Hours special had to admit when

pressed that it wasn't. In fact, I've heard from 4 doctors myself, all who

perform both the vbg and rny, who call these procedures tools in the fight to

control obesity and lose weight. I personally would run the other way if a

doc had the audacity to tell me that he could cure my obesity with a surgical

procedure. The responsibility for the gain was mine and the loss will be

mine as well.

Let's face it--you could potentially consume thousands of calories each day

if you ate nothing but drank protein supplements mixed with water. Let's see

now, at between 120 and 150 cals each, 10 a day would be about 1500 cals.

Even with the smallest pouch, you could push through 1500 cals worth of

protein supps mixed with water without blinking an eye. Now, if you did that

and ate as well another 1500 cals, that would bring your daily intake up to

3000. And so on, and so on, and so on....

I'm so glad that this has worked so well for you and that you are able to

recognize when you are suffering a lapse vs a relapse. I'm afraid I don't

have it all together just yet. It takes some of us a heck of a lot less than

5 days to put away that 28 oz steak than you do. It's still a struggle with

me to try to get in enough nutrition to make all my docs happy and to keep my

consumption under control to keep me happy. I will have to stand behind my

opinion that wls is NOT a cure for obesity. I think that the statistics DO

exist to show that these procedures can be circumvented, and weight can be

maintained and even gained after surgery. I don't remember exactly which

procedure you had, but I do know that there is a significant failure rate for

both procedures--the vbg and rny--that I underwent. Oh well, guess I'm

rambling now, but I felt that I had to answer the charges.

--El

[Guest guest]

BobA--

You say that you can't digest red meat very well. Would you mind describing

how you feel when you do try to eat red meat? I'm still trying to figure out

why I'm still reacting so badly and feeling so ill after eating. It would

help. Thanks

--El

[Guest guest]

Huh? What? I'm here! Yep, revised 1/20. Glad of it and none too soon!

Currently weighing in at 109. Oh, how I would SO love to break 100.

However, what the heck would I do with these big FEETS?

Anyway, yes, my staple line disrupted. Actually was disrupted in 2 places,

but doc didn't go into juicy details as yet. You will have a hard time ever

convincing me that I out ate my surgery,. My top weight before revision was

124. That doesn't exactly indicate that I'd been mowing down too many whole

pizzas or anything. I've been disrupted since at least 8/97, probably since

12/95. At least a small disruption. So, for me, as far as I'm concerned,

the post-op nutrition (ie, no milk, no sugar, wads of protein supp, etc) and

my mega-bypass are what kept me from regaining.

However, had a rolled around nekkid in piles of sugar and started skipping

protein supps, no doubt I'd have hit 200 by the day of my revision. One of

my original surgery-day buddies regained at the rate of 1 lb a day. She

disrupted in '96 or '97, but never really was into protein or off sugar.

*** Please reply to me at: vitalady@... ***

Thanks,

www.vitalady.com

Re: Second Surgery

> From: Elfeline@...

>

> Yes, Kris is one of the success stories that I know about personally. But

> there are many others, too. And what about so many of the rny's here that

> had to be revised? How about our own Vitalady?

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

El,

Red meat makes me barf! I can eat a little ground beef but roast, steak,

etc., makes me ill. I just don't digest it well. I really have lost my taste

for it. I've also lost my taste for other things like Chinese food. I used to

eat it several times a month and now I rarely eat it. Just don't like it

anymore. Weird!

BobA

[Guest guest]

El,

I really think that the key to prolonged weight loss retention is the length

of the bypass. I am very distal and my surgeon leaves a larger stomach than

most surgeons. I can eat a normal meal, not anywhere as " normal " as it was

when I 410 pounds. I eat at least 2000 calories a day and sometimes more,

but its mostly protein and only about 10-20% from CARBS. I also eat a lot of

high fat foods but don't absorb most of it. I've lost the weight I want and

actually was told by my nutritionist to put a few pounds back on. I do avoid

sugar (I am lucky in that I was not a sugar addict before the surgery) and

CARBS. there are days when I do eat more CARBS but I just cut back the next

days.

I'm getting old. I think I've said all this before. If I start telling the

same stories all over again just send me a furball.

BobA

Biliopancreatic Diversion (A Very Distal RNY) on 10/8/98

220 Pounds Gone Forever, But Not Forgotten!

[Guest guest]

Dan,

You left off the part about the " squishy/foamy " BMs. They aren't always oily,

but they sure do float nice. Really a very small price to pay for being thin

and generally healthy. And, it doesn't happen all the time. If I reduce the

amount of fat intake it gets better...But eating low CARBS and high protein

also means a lot of fat in cheese and meats. You learn to balance your life

for once and you learn that you are in control of what you do and what you

eat.

Look at this - a serious post without mention of a cat! OOPS!

BobA

[Guest guest]

Not weird, Bob, great!! Once in a while is supposed to be all you need

anyway. I get horrible pain and fullness when I eat red meat, wishing that I

could barf. Oh well....

--El

[Guest guest]

Bob--

I'm getting old, too. Sometimes I need to hear the same stories over, and

over, and over.... I'm starting to envy all of you who had the choice of a

distal vs proximal bypass. I did dump today after eating a piece of mom's

b'day cake, so I'm not totally discouraged and ready to scream at my surgeon

anymore. But I am still concerned--maybe I will gain my weight back with

this bypass? Don't know if I'm ready to accept that yet.

--El