Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I agree with this. Done safely and correctly (Andy Cutler protocol) it would benefit ANYONE (except those with silver fillings), especially our kids who hold onto metals and the sooner it's done, the less time is needed doing it, among other treatments. > > > > > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia. His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin & Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > > > > > > > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > > > > > > > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > > > > > > > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > > > > > > > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral & Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > > > > > > > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year. I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community.....please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I agree with this. Done safely and correctly (Andy Cutler protocol) it would benefit ANYONE (except those with silver fillings), especially our kids who hold onto metals and the sooner it's done, the less time is needed doing it, among other treatments. > > > > > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia. His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin & Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > > > > > > > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > > > > > > > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > > > > > > > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > > > > > > > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral & Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > > > > > > > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year. I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community.....please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Yes, we couldn't stay on Flagyl for a long time. The rules are different now, but at that time we were worried about the long term effect on the liver. Biocidin pproduced a die off immediately that included black flecks in the stool, very strange smell, lots of it, and lethargy. But after that, he was able to speak in clearer words and short sentences (about four years old at the time), was more focused and had better eye contact. I think we repeated the OAT and saw the clostridia markers were gone. It comes back though, and I guess that is where chelation and culturelle come in to improve the leaky gut. > > > > > > Thanks for your response Terri. I was wondering if you have ever tried Vancomycin & Flagyl?  I hear Vanco wipes out both bad &  the good bacteria in the gut while Flagyl may not be as agressive.   > > > May I ask which natural anti-fungal herbs did you use and what is Biocidin? > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Yes, we couldn't stay on Flagyl for a long time. The rules are different now, but at that time we were worried about the long term effect on the liver. Biocidin pproduced a die off immediately that included black flecks in the stool, very strange smell, lots of it, and lethargy. But after that, he was able to speak in clearer words and short sentences (about four years old at the time), was more focused and had better eye contact. I think we repeated the OAT and saw the clostridia markers were gone. It comes back though, and I guess that is where chelation and culturelle come in to improve the leaky gut. > > > > > > Thanks for your response Terri. I was wondering if you have ever tried Vancomycin & Flagyl?  I hear Vanco wipes out both bad &  the good bacteria in the gut while Flagyl may not be as agressive.   > > > May I ask which natural anti-fungal herbs did you use and what is Biocidin? > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Yes, we couldn't stay on Flagyl for a long time. The rules are different now, but at that time we were worried about the long term effect on the liver. Biocidin pproduced a die off immediately that included black flecks in the stool, very strange smell, lots of it, and lethargy. But after that, he was able to speak in clearer words and short sentences (about four years old at the time), was more focused and had better eye contact. I think we repeated the OAT and saw the clostridia markers were gone. It comes back though, and I guess that is where chelation and culturelle come in to improve the leaky gut. > > > > > > Thanks for your response Terri. I was wondering if you have ever tried Vancomycin & Flagyl?  I hear Vanco wipes out both bad &  the good bacteria in the gut while Flagyl may not be as agressive.   > > > May I ask which natural anti-fungal herbs did you use and what is Biocidin? > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 , There is a dairy free version that came out on June of this year. We use it very successfully. Have you tried that? > > > > > > > > Thanks for your response Terri. I was wondering if you have ever tried Vancomycin & Flagyl?  I hear Vanco wipes out both bad &  the good bacteria in the gut while Flagyl may not be as agressive.   > > > > May I ask which natural anti-fungal herbs did you use and what is Biocidin? > > > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 , There is a dairy free version that came out on June of this year. We use it very successfully. Have you tried that? > > > > > > > > Thanks for your response Terri. I was wondering if you have ever tried Vancomycin & Flagyl?  I hear Vanco wipes out both bad &  the good bacteria in the gut while Flagyl may not be as agressive.   > > > > May I ask which natural anti-fungal herbs did you use and what is Biocidin? > > > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 , There is a dairy free version that came out on June of this year. We use it very successfully. Have you tried that? > > > > > > > > Thanks for your response Terri. I was wondering if you have ever tried Vancomycin & Flagyl?  I hear Vanco wipes out both bad &  the good bacteria in the gut while Flagyl may not be as agressive.   > > > > May I ask which natural anti-fungal herbs did you use and what is Biocidin? > > > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Metals are often at the root of these sorts of issues. Unfortunately, too many people wait to remove them as a last course of action. We used the Flagyl too and saw great results, but they were very temporary. There are many natural yeast and bacterial treatments that can be used, such as: GSE, Oil of Oregano (I swear by this), Olive Leaf Extract (for us needs to be used with a lot of yeast fighters), Uva Ursi (has time limit restrictions, can't use indefinitely, but works really well), Caprylic Acid (love this!), Biotin (B vitamin that helps the body fight yeast)...the list is really endless, there are so many natural remedies out there, the key is to find the right combination for your child. We use a lot of them all together, three times a day! And for us, it's part of the biofilm protocol. While I use and respect DAN! doctors, I do my own thing and use them only for what I think I need them for, IE - scripts...tests...everything else I do on my own. I research endlessly and when I feel pretty good about a course of action, I delve into it whole-heartedly. I never tried Vanco with my older son, we used Flagyl, but my younger son was on it for a few days while he was in the ICU for a febrile seizure once. It was the first time I realized that the red anal ring went away completely....this means it was probably caused by bacteria rather than the yeast I thought he had! Bacteria is our big problem with our older son too, so I am not surprised. I have been using the natural methods along with some daily Nystatin for yeast, daily with him and the ring is now gone using only naturals! We also use the biofilm protocol with him. How is it that your son is on DMSA? He needs to keep the DMSA in his blood stream continuously in order to not cause metal redistribuiton. Andy Cutler's protocol of every 3 hours during the day and 4 at night, accounts for that. We do the Andy Cutler protocol, yes, it's been very promising for us. We are on round 17 this coming weekend. We use the low, frequent dosing that he recommends. We don't use juice, because my son can take pills just fine. We have never used HBOT, merely out of inability to pay for it, but I have heard great things about it. We have never used Valtrex either, but we do a natural form of something similar, we use enzymes combined with Olive Leaf Extract to eliminate viruses. Yes, I have heard of enhansa and glutathione, but the dr's I use don't recommend them. Glutathione is very hard to assimilate into the body, absorption rates are very low. I have been told by our DAN! that he doesn't prefer a supplement of glutathione, but to use things that increase the levels naturally, like OSR and DMSA. We dont' use OSR either, because of major yeast issues, but with chelation, we are seeing good results overall. > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia.  His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin &  Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > >  > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > >  > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > >  > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > >  > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral &  Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > >  > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year.   I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community... ..please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old.              > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Metals are often at the root of these sorts of issues. Unfortunately, too many people wait to remove them as a last course of action. We used the Flagyl too and saw great results, but they were very temporary. There are many natural yeast and bacterial treatments that can be used, such as: GSE, Oil of Oregano (I swear by this), Olive Leaf Extract (for us needs to be used with a lot of yeast fighters), Uva Ursi (has time limit restrictions, can't use indefinitely, but works really well), Caprylic Acid (love this!), Biotin (B vitamin that helps the body fight yeast)...the list is really endless, there are so many natural remedies out there, the key is to find the right combination for your child. We use a lot of them all together, three times a day! And for us, it's part of the biofilm protocol. While I use and respect DAN! doctors, I do my own thing and use them only for what I think I need them for, IE - scripts...tests...everything else I do on my own. I research endlessly and when I feel pretty good about a course of action, I delve into it whole-heartedly. I never tried Vanco with my older son, we used Flagyl, but my younger son was on it for a few days while he was in the ICU for a febrile seizure once. It was the first time I realized that the red anal ring went away completely....this means it was probably caused by bacteria rather than the yeast I thought he had! Bacteria is our big problem with our older son too, so I am not surprised. I have been using the natural methods along with some daily Nystatin for yeast, daily with him and the ring is now gone using only naturals! We also use the biofilm protocol with him. How is it that your son is on DMSA? He needs to keep the DMSA in his blood stream continuously in order to not cause metal redistribuiton. Andy Cutler's protocol of every 3 hours during the day and 4 at night, accounts for that. We do the Andy Cutler protocol, yes, it's been very promising for us. We are on round 17 this coming weekend. We use the low, frequent dosing that he recommends. We don't use juice, because my son can take pills just fine. We have never used HBOT, merely out of inability to pay for it, but I have heard great things about it. We have never used Valtrex either, but we do a natural form of something similar, we use enzymes combined with Olive Leaf Extract to eliminate viruses. Yes, I have heard of enhansa and glutathione, but the dr's I use don't recommend them. Glutathione is very hard to assimilate into the body, absorption rates are very low. I have been told by our DAN! that he doesn't prefer a supplement of glutathione, but to use things that increase the levels naturally, like OSR and DMSA. We dont' use OSR either, because of major yeast issues, but with chelation, we are seeing good results overall. > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia.  His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin &  Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > >  > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > >  > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > >  > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > >  > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral &  Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > >  > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year.   I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community... ..please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old.              > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Metals are often at the root of these sorts of issues. Unfortunately, too many people wait to remove them as a last course of action. We used the Flagyl too and saw great results, but they were very temporary. There are many natural yeast and bacterial treatments that can be used, such as: GSE, Oil of Oregano (I swear by this), Olive Leaf Extract (for us needs to be used with a lot of yeast fighters), Uva Ursi (has time limit restrictions, can't use indefinitely, but works really well), Caprylic Acid (love this!), Biotin (B vitamin that helps the body fight yeast)...the list is really endless, there are so many natural remedies out there, the key is to find the right combination for your child. We use a lot of them all together, three times a day! And for us, it's part of the biofilm protocol. While I use and respect DAN! doctors, I do my own thing and use them only for what I think I need them for, IE - scripts...tests...everything else I do on my own. I research endlessly and when I feel pretty good about a course of action, I delve into it whole-heartedly. I never tried Vanco with my older son, we used Flagyl, but my younger son was on it for a few days while he was in the ICU for a febrile seizure once. It was the first time I realized that the red anal ring went away completely....this means it was probably caused by bacteria rather than the yeast I thought he had! Bacteria is our big problem with our older son too, so I am not surprised. I have been using the natural methods along with some daily Nystatin for yeast, daily with him and the ring is now gone using only naturals! We also use the biofilm protocol with him. How is it that your son is on DMSA? He needs to keep the DMSA in his blood stream continuously in order to not cause metal redistribuiton. Andy Cutler's protocol of every 3 hours during the day and 4 at night, accounts for that. We do the Andy Cutler protocol, yes, it's been very promising for us. We are on round 17 this coming weekend. We use the low, frequent dosing that he recommends. We don't use juice, because my son can take pills just fine. We have never used HBOT, merely out of inability to pay for it, but I have heard great things about it. We have never used Valtrex either, but we do a natural form of something similar, we use enzymes combined with Olive Leaf Extract to eliminate viruses. Yes, I have heard of enhansa and glutathione, but the dr's I use don't recommend them. Glutathione is very hard to assimilate into the body, absorption rates are very low. I have been told by our DAN! that he doesn't prefer a supplement of glutathione, but to use things that increase the levels naturally, like OSR and DMSA. We dont' use OSR either, because of major yeast issues, but with chelation, we are seeing good results overall. > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia.  His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin &  Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > >  > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > >  > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > >  > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > >  > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral &  Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > >  > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year.   I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community... ..please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old.              > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Here is what I read on the accuracy of urine porphyrins tests: http://www.markschauss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/cutlerinterview.pdf Schauss: I just thought of one other question that I think our listeners would be very interested in – the issue of urinary porphyrins and mercury. Cutler: It's truly an interesting issue. It's one I am very aware of. It's one that has some very fascinating literature. So, I'll give you kind of a long answer, but I'll start with the short answer and then chase it around. The short answer is: very limited clinical utility because of the very high rate of false negatives. And that flows from the fact that, in a laboratory test, the real " chain of analysis " starts while the urine is still in the urethra. Once it comes out as a free stream in the air, the lab test has started, and from that point until the final measurements [are] made, everything can affect the result. Now, for most things like a reflex urinanalysis, blood in the urine, it really doesn't matter very much until it gets to the lab. The problem is that porphyrins are very, very sensitive to air oxidation and to light oxidation (photo-oxidation) so, if you pee into a bucket in a room with fluorescent light, by the time you get the container and pour it into the collection container in the refrigerator, half the analyte is gone! And that's not under the laboratory's control – there's nothing they can do about that, there's no way they can check, they can't know that happened. If you bring it to a laboratory and the technician hasn't done the test before, they're supposed to make sure that the urine's well mixed. If they shake the container, instead of gently rock it back and forth, shaking it can destroy half the analyte. If they do this in a room with fluorescent lighting, that can destroy another half of the analyte. So, you can be sitting there with someone who has a very high level and shows up with a perfectly normal test and that's not uncommon. So, it's a really useful test if you always have this very great suspicion that normal results, even repeated normal results can be incorrect – they can be false normals – it's like false positives or false negatives, this is simply a test with a dramatically high false negative rate. You have the work of Woods et al. on the 5-carboxyporphyrin being specific to mercury that's now a test done at Laboratoire Philippe Auguste in France that – presumably this is a relevant test, presumably this is specific for 12 mercury – it's not clear to me what their reference ranges actually mean which raises some questions… However, as a more general rule, all the mainstream laboratories have always offered fractionated urine porphyrins and, if you look at those, while they're not specific for mercury, if you get elevation of coproporphyrin, then there's a rare genetic porphyria you can easily rule out. Or it's toxic porphyria if you get elevation of uroporphyrin and coproporphyrin then it can only be toxic porphyria. There are about four diseases that are easily ruled out that can cause it, plus maybe 30-40 toxins and most of them are heavy metals. So, if you used that test, and found toxic porphyria, there's a very short rule-out list and you can get there pretty quickly. The problem is you can't use it diagnostically or for rule-out or for screening because of the very high false-negative rate. And I have a lot of discussion in the book Amalgam Illness about if people want to do this test, what you have to do for sample handling and how to try to lead a laboratory into it. The best thing is really for the physician to take personal responsibility to learn how to do this himself and then teach every patient and write orders for the laboratory to give them all the stuff and have the patient themselves prepare the sample. Even with that you'll get some false negatives. It does lead to one of the most – you know if you do like, whole blood porphyrins, a lot of these people will show slightly high in those who will also show toxic porphyria in urine – you just don't really get the fractionation of the whole blood porphyrins as a common lab test. If you're worried about a genetic porphyria, the important thing to remember is: [in] genetic porphyrias, typically the elevations are ten times the upper normal limit or higher. And typically, the people are very symptomatic episodically and do pretty well in between. They have very well understood triggers. In toxic porphyria you're usually seeing two, three, four times the upper normal limit all the time, every time you test – it doesn't go up and down. Symptoms are not particularly episodic. The really interesting thing about this is that if you look in the literature you find... I believe it's a Swiss study where they looked at urine porphyrin levels in children from birth through age eighteen. And what they saw is, in the first twenty-four months, the porphyrin levels went up and down in lockstep with the amount of mercury in their vaccines. And they simply attributed that to natural variation and development but it seems a lot more likely that it's being driven by the vaccine-induced toxicity affecting the whole population. So, while it's a very useful test in some sense, it has pretty sharp clinical limitations due to the pretty high likelihood of getting back false negatives and getting very confused. And the doctors have to remember – and I'm sure most of them are aware that – if you start to use a lot of things like you tell the patient " oh, do this test, it might come back normal but that doesn't necessarily mean anything " and then it comes back normal, the patient is going to say " well this test proves I don't have mercury " even though it does no such thing. So, while it may be useful for the doctor, it can impair his ability to get that patient treated by having the patient say " you know, all these tests don't mean anything and I really don't have mercury. " Because all these tests say is that, even when you knew there were a lot of false normals, that patient got one of them. > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Results of DMSA study: http://www.autism.com/danwebcast/presentations/alexandria/Saturday/.pdf > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 This might be repetitive for some of you. I just wanted to share that the Enzymes and Autism list is excited about the Interface enzyme from Klaire labs clearing the clostridia markers on organic acid tests. Haven't tried it, but was impressed. > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 This might be repetitive for some of you. I just wanted to share that the Enzymes and Autism list is excited about the Interface enzyme from Klaire labs clearing the clostridia markers on organic acid tests. Haven't tried it, but was impressed. > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 This might be repetitive for some of you. I just wanted to share that the Enzymes and Autism list is excited about the Interface enzyme from Klaire labs clearing the clostridia markers on organic acid tests. Haven't tried it, but was impressed. > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 > > > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 > > > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Cutler is talking about determing the initial dx of mercury toxicity, not whether you can use the porphyrin test to dteremine if you're done with chelation. Cutler and the French porphyrin people have both said the test only measures body burden. > > > > > > The same DMSA study was done twice that I know of, both times it was shown to normalize glutathione levels (for at least 3 months I think) in children with autism after only one round. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 We chelate because we hope that one day we can ditch the diet. Myself included. Last night I was visiting a friend and she gave me a little piece of pumpkin cake. I hadn't eaten wheat in a long time, so I took a digestive enzyme and had it (I was sooo hungry and it looked so good), an hour later, my upper back muscles were throbbing like I pulled them from working out. I can't believe how strongly I react. I am chelating with my kids though, 's tolerance of foods has gotten a lot better along the way. Yes, it does take a long time, but it sure beats being on a restricted diet the rest of your life. Liz Here are some resources on heavy metals/enzymes: Clip from Bernie Wyndam's paper A direct mechanism involving mercury's inhibition of cellular enzymatic processes by binding with the hydroxyl radical (SH) in amino acids appears to be a major part of the connection to allergic/immune reactive conditions. For example, mercury has been found to strongly inhibit the activity of xanthine oxidase and dipeptyl peptidase (DPP IV) that are required in the digestion of the milk protein casein, and the same protein that is cluster differentiation antigen 26 (CD26) which helps T-lymphocyte activation. CD26 or DPP IV is a cell surface glycoprotein that is very susceptible to inactivation by mercury binding to its cysteinyl domain. DPP IV has many different functions in the body besides digesting gluten and casein. As stated, this protein is known to influence T cells of the immune system. It is also a binding protein for purine and adenosyl deaminase. Because of this, a problem with DPP IV can throw off the immune system, the amino acid profile, and methylation. To improve methylation when this DPP IV is hampered, these nutrients may be helpful: Tri-Methyl-Glycine (TMG), B6, folic acid, B12, magnesium, and serine. A supplement of a little methionine or S-Adenosyl-Methionine (SAM) may help, however, Dr. Pangborn said that it is not clear at this point whether the addition of large doses of methionine or SAMe will help or harm. Mercury and other toxic metals also inhibit binding of opioid receptor agonists (mimics of the real thing) to opioid receptors, while magnesium stimulates binding to opioid receptors. Studies involving a large sample of autistic and schizophrenic patients found that over 90% of those tested had high levels of the milk protein beta-casomorphin-7 in their blood and urine, and defective enzymatic processes for digesting milk protein, and similarly for the corresponding enzyme needed to digest wheat gluten. The studies found high levels of IgA antigen-specific antibodies for casein, lactoalbumin, and beta-lactoglobulin, and of IgG and IgM for casein. Beta-casomorphin-7 is a morphine-like compound that results in neural dysfunction, as well as being a direct histamine releaser in humans, and it induces skin reactions. Minerals are also involved in the enzymatic processes involved in utilization of B6, B12, and Super Oxide Dismutase (SOD). Mercury blocks these enzymatic processes, and it affects cellular membrane influx/efflux of minerals such as calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium. Mercury also affects the ATP energy system and neurotoxicity by affecting the distribution and utilization of these minerals. Elimination of milk and wheat products and sulfur foods from the diet has been found to improve the condition. A double blind study using a potent opiate antagonist (which blocks a receptor without having any effect on the cell), naltrexone (NAL), produced significant reduction in autistic symptomology among the 56% most responsive to opioid effects. The behavioral improvements were accompanied by alterations in the distribution of the major lymphocyte subsets, with a significant increase in the T-helper-inducers and a significant reduction of the T-cytotoxic-suppressors (Alpha Lipoic Acid also provides this same shift in these ratios—WSL), and a normalization of the CD4/CD8 ratio. (If naltrexone is used, it should be only in low doses of 3 to 6 mg per day in conjunction with a Gf/Cf dietary. Higher doses of 25 to 50 mg, usually prescribed, can cause children to have pain and headaches according to Dr. Bruce Semon, Child Psychiatrist—WSL.) Studies have found mercury causes increased levels of the CD8 T-cytotoxic-suppressors. As noted previously, such populations of patients have also been found to have high levels of mercury, and to recover after mercury detoxification. As mercury levels are reduced the protein binding is reduced, and improvement in the enzymatic process occurs. Another effect of mercury and toxic metals is a reduction in B-lymphocytes. One of these studies dealing with autistic patients has found this causes a tendency to be more seriously affected by viruses, and to develop intestinal disorders including leaky gut, lymphoid modular hyperplasia (measles lesions in the gut), and a high incidence of parasites. Additional, cellular-level enzymatic effects of mercury's binding with proteins include blockage of sulfur-oxidation processes which have been found to be significant factors in many autistic, plus enzymatic processes involving vitamins B6 and B12, with effects on the cytochrome-C energy processes as well. Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) baths, supplementation with the P5P form of Vitamin B6, and with vitamin B12 shots are methods of dealing with these enzymatic blockages that have been found effective by those treating such conditions. Mercury has also been found to have adverse effects on cellular mineral levels of calcium, magnesium, zinc, and lithium. [by heavily depleting magnesium, excess calcium is allowed into the cells. Supplementing with these minerals, especially with high amounts of magnesium (preferably as glycinate), and zinc, has been found to be effective in the majority of cases—WSL]. Another of the results of these toxic exposures and enzymatic blockages is the effect on the liver and dysfunction of the liver detoxification processes which autistic children have been found to have. All of the autistic cases tested were found to have high toxic exposures/effects and liver detoxification profiles outside of normal.—Immune Reactive Conditions: The mercury connection to eczema, autism, schizophrenia, lupus, asthma, and allergies (snipped from larger study)—Bernard Windham, Chemical Engineer. Aluminum action on enzymes: http://www.pjoes.com/pdf/11.3/251-254.pdf > > > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia. His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin & Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > > > > > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > > > > > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > > > > > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > > > > > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral & Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > > > > > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year. I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community.....please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 " I'm unsure if you were as unconfident about the uncertainties of doing more damage then good as I am feeling right now. " You are getting started early and that shows what a great mom you are. Keep researching and don't dedicate yourself to any one person and what they say. Go with what makes sense for your son. I think getting a Doctor's Data Hair Elements test would be a great way to ease your uncertainty and help you sort things out. It is inexpensive and provides a lot of information. The people on the Autism-Mercury board are experienced in reading this test and making suggestions. You don't need a doctor to order the test and you get a discount for mentioning the group. " Im a little afraid of the Vanco killing his good bacteria's & natural flori and him being resistant to any future antibiotics....but maybe the good of this treatment would out weigh the bad. " I would go with your instincts. Here are some things to consider: Trying a candida diet which will consist of low carbs and very low if not no sweets and lots of fiber. Blend or juice veggies for better nutrient absorption or you can add the juice/puree to meatloaf, meatballs, or spaghetti sauce if the child doesn't like them. Cultured vegetables like saurkraut, cabbage juice, or others from recipes on the internet are great sources of probiotics and crowd out bad bacteria. Flaxseed oil, Vit B12 and magnesium are great supplements for healing the gut. Good luck! Liz > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia.  His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin &  Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > >>>>>>>>>>> >  > >>>>>>>>>>> > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > >>>>>>>>>>> >  > >>>>>>>>>>> > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > >>>>>>>>>>> >  > >>>>>>>>>>> > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > >>>>>>>>>>> >  > >>>>>>>>>>> > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral &  Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > >>>>>>>>>>> >  > >>>>>>>>>>> > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year.   I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community... ..please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old.              > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 You have tried to discredit both of us today, first you told me that my child was not even recovered and then you tell hers wasn't as severe as yours. Whether or not these things are true, they have absolutely nothing to do with any of our knowledge or credibility. > > > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia. His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin & Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > > > > > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > > > > > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > > > > > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > > > > > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral & Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > > > > > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year. I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community.....please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 You have tried to discredit both of us today, first you told me that my child was not even recovered and then you tell hers wasn't as severe as yours. Whether or not these things are true, they have absolutely nothing to do with any of our knowledge or credibility. > > > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia. His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin & Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > > > > > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > > > > > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > > > > > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > > > > > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral & Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > > > > > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year. I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community.....please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 You have tried to discredit both of us today, first you told me that my child was not even recovered and then you tell hers wasn't as severe as yours. Whether or not these things are true, they have absolutely nothing to do with any of our knowledge or credibility. > > > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia. His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin & Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > > > > > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > > > > > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > > > > > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > > > > > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral & Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > > > > > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year. I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community.....please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Christel seems to take over this group at times and has to win. The spelling alone is enough to make me finally leave. I come here now for the comedy of it all. I will see you and over at A-M or join our Andy Cutler group. This was the first group I joined for biomed, but I have learned so much over the past two years and just can't stay here anymore. > > > > > > > > My son's O.A.Ts test came back with high levels of DHHP, and was diagnosed with Clostridia. His D.A.N doctor prescribed antibiotics: Vancomycin & Metrodizonal (Flagyl). > > > > > > > > His bowel movements have always been very normal but I fear that if I give him these antibiotics his bowels and mild personality might change for the worst once I take him off of the antibiotics. > > > > > > > > He turned two last week, has been on a GF/CF diet for 4 months, takes DMA, Multi.Vitamin, Zinc, D3, Folic, B6, Cod liver, Probiotics, vitamin E. He has speech delays and has repeated 35 words but not associated any one of them and his eye contact could be better. Hasn't been formally diagnosed although I know he has some form of a mild PDD. > > > > > > > > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADVISE? I am so terrified of giving my son antibiotics in fear that it will kill his friendly bacteria and of-set his gut and I that I might loose him permanently to the unknown realm. > > > > > > > > I asked his D.A.N Doctor if we could do Valtrex with Naizoral & Difflucan and they said since he didn't show any viral issues in his tests and because he's two they could not prescribed Valtrex and that Difflucan & Nizoral were stronger and had worst side affects. Mind you he's had two viral dual ear infections in his two years. They said that Nystatin would be the alternate medication they would prescribe instead of the antibiotics. > > > > > > > > Also, after the antibiotic treatment they would put him on a Gluthadion cream and Enhansa (cumin) to detox him. Is this a form of chelation? and how safe is it? I plan to give him HBOT treatment and hopefully B12 nasal spray in the New Year. I'm so confused, I haven't started the antibiotic treatment because I hope to get a second opinion from the " mb12 valtrex " community.....please advise, what should I do, pls. help. Thank you and may your little ones have quick recoveries in the New Year! Regards, " Bear " desperate father of a sweet two year old. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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