DMSA Challenge

[Guest guest]

hg is the last thing to come out

[ ] DMSA challenge

I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who did not meeting

counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just had a DMSA challenge test

done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic (?!?), high in lead (not very high) and

high in various other metals (tin, etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable.

The funny thing is that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have been

giving malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg poisoning? Would he benefit

from chelation?

Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated. Meanwhile he is

making good progress from our other interventions (supplements, minerals,

therapy), but I feel that we should also tackle detoxification.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Comments interspersed.

S

<tt>

I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who did not meeting

counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just had a DMSA challenge test

done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic (?!?), high in lead (not very high) and

high in various other metals (tin, etc).

>

*Identify and reduce/eliminate sources of exposure. Arsenic is used in

pesticides sprayed on golf courses, orchards, and cotton fields among other

places; lumber for decks, playsets, etc is often treated with copper arsenate

which leaches into the soil around them. It's also used as stain resistant on

carpet, upholstered furniture, carseats, strollers, playpens, etc. Tin's in

some toothpaste in the form of stannous fluoride.

>

Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is that on the hair test

the Al was off the charts (we have been giving malic acid since), and the

mercury was low but detectable. <BR>

Does this make any sense?

>

*Some metals take a long time to pull out of the body and wouldn't necessarily

show up that quickly.

>

Can he still have Hg poisoning? Would he benefit from chelation?>

*DMSA chelates lead and mercury. ALA chelates arsenic and mercury.

>

<BR>

Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated. Meanwhile he is

making good progress from our other interventions (supplements, minerals,

therapy), but I feel that we should also tackle detoxification.<BR>

Thanks<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

[Guest guest]

That is not true. We have been chealting since June. We showed no

mercury after the first test, mercury after the 2nd, and then no

mercury after the third. We test the urine every 5-6 rounds. The

first 2 tests showed no aluminum,this last test showed 5 times the

normal amount. I really don't believe there is any order in which

the metals come out. It just depends how tight they are bound to the

tissues,bones,and organs inside the children's bodies.

> hg is the last thing to come out

> [ ] DMSA challenge

>

>

> I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who did

not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just had a

DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic (?!?),

high in lead (not very high) and high in various other metals (tin,

etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is

that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have been giving

malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg poisoning? Would

he benefit from chelation?

> Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated.

Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other interventions

(supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should also

tackle detoxification.

> Thanks

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I still disagree with you, mercury is the most tightly bound one and if it's in

the brain and has crossed the BBB you won't see it till you add some ALA in. I

don't mean to be rude but 3 times hardly counts as a long time of doing

chelating to say you are not seeing any mercury coming out. wait will round 75

or so

[ ] DMSA challenge

>

>

> I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who did

not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just had a

DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic (?!?),

high in lead (not very high) and high in various other metals (tin,

etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is

that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have been giving

malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg poisoning? Would

he benefit from chelation?

> Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated.

Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other interventions

(supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should also

tackle detoxification.

> Thanks

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

My son showed very little for his first month of chelation, but we were

warned that might be the case so didn't worry about it. At the end of the

month, his arsenic levels soared, followed by a few other weird metals. We

did not see mercury for about three months. So don't be discouraged, and

yes, you should detox, if only to get that arsenic out because it can cause

cancer.

Barb

[ ] DMSA challenge

> I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who did not

meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just had a DMSA

challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic (?!?), high in lead

(not very high) and high in various other metals (tin, etc). Mercury and

aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is that on the hair test the Al

was off the charts (we have been giving malic acid since), and the mercury

was low but detectable.

> Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg poisoning? Would he benefit

from chelation?

> Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated. Meanwhile he is

making good progress from our other interventions (supplements, minerals,

therapy), but I feel that we should also tackle detoxification.

> Thanks

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>His urine was LOADED with arsenic (?!?), high in lead (not very high) and high

in various other metals (tin, etc)

Consider removing sources

http://www.danasview.net/metals.htm

>> Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is that on the hair

test the Al was off the charts (we have been giving

malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> Does this make any sense?

Yes, at least to me. Maybe the DMSA was " used up " removing the other metals and

did not have a chance to get to the mercury or

aluminum. Or maybe he does not have mercury or aluminum in the body [DMSA does

not affect brain metals, with a few exceptions].

>> Can he still have Hg poisoning?

Yes. If it is all concentrated in the brain, it won't show up with DMSA.

>> Would he benefit from chelation?

Yes.

> Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated. Meanwhile he is

making good progress from our other interventions

(supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should also tackle

detoxification.

Glad to hear of the good progress!

Dana

[Guest guest]

You have misunderstood me. We have tested the urine 3 times to see

what was coming out. We have done over 12 rounds. I also know about

ALA but Dr. Baptist advised waiting until the metals in his body

were lower. Of course the stuff in his brain will be the last. I am

just telling you that on the second urine test mercury did show up.

This last test nothing came out.

> > hg is the last thing to come out

> > [ ] DMSA challenge

> >

> >

> > I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who

did

> not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just

had a

> DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic

(?!?),

> high in lead (not very high) and high in various other metals

(tin,

> etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is

> that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have been

giving

> malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> > Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg poisoning?

Would

> he benefit from chelation?

> > Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated.

> Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other

interventions

> (supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should also

> tackle detoxification.

> > Thanks

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

that may mean you have it all out of the body and that it is mostly stuck in the

brain. so you have to get all the other metals out of the body before doing the

brain or you will shuffle other things into it

[ ] DMSA challenge

> >

> >

> > I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who

did

> not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just

had a

> DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic

(?!?),

> high in lead (not very high) and high in various other metals

(tin,

> etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is

> that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have been

giving

> malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> > Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg poisoning?

Would

> he benefit from chelation?

> > Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated.

> Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other

interventions

> (supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should also

> tackle detoxification.

> > Thanks

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

good to see someone working with dr Baptist. have you been happy with him, that

is who we are getting ready to use as well

[ ] DMSA challenge

> >

> >

> > I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son (who

did

> not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning) just

had a

> DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic

(?!?),

> high in lead (not very high) and high in various other metals

(tin,

> etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny thing is

> that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have been

giving

> malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> > Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg poisoning?

Would

> he benefit from chelation?

> > Any advice from people who have been there is appreciated.

> Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other

interventions

> (supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should also

> tackle detoxification.

> > Thanks

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, we have been very hapy with him. Aren't you Christel from the A-

List? If not you both have very similar screen names.

> > > hg is the last thing to come out

> > > [ ] DMSA challenge

> > >

> > >

> > > I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son

(who

> did

> > not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning)

just

> had a

> > DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic

> (?!?),

> > high in lead (not very high) and high in various other

metals

> (tin,

> > etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny

thing is

> > that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have

been

> giving

> > malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> > > Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg

poisoning?

> Would

> > he benefit from chelation?

> > > Any advice from people who have been there is

appreciated.

> > Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other

> interventions

> > (supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should

also

> > tackle detoxification.

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

yes

[ ] DMSA challenge

> > >

> > >

> > > I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old son

(who

> did

> > not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg poisoning)

just

> had a

> > DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with arsenic

> (?!?),

> > high in lead (not very high) and high in various other

metals

> (tin,

> > etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny

thing is

> > that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have

been

> giving

> > malic acid since), and the mercury was low but detectable.

> > > Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg

poisoning?

> Would

> > he benefit from chelation?

> > > Any advice from people who have been there is

appreciated.

> > Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other

> interventions

> > (supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we should

also

> > tackle detoxification.

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I am the one who told you about Dr. Baptist. You were really having

problems with your son before that.

> > > > hg is the last thing to come out

> > > > [ ] DMSA challenge

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I know it's a controversial test, but my 3-year old

son

> (who

> > did

> > > not meeting counting rules on hair test for Hg

poisoning)

> just

> > had a

> > > DMSA challenge test done. His urine was LOADED with

arsenic

> > (?!?),

> > > high in lead (not very high) and high in various other

> metals

> > (tin,

> > > etc). Mercury and aluminum were undetectable. The funny

> thing is

> > > that on the hair test the Al was off the charts (we have

> been

> > giving

> > > malic acid since), and the mercury was low but

detectable.

> > > > Does this make any sense? Can he still have Hg

> poisoning?

> > Would

> > > he benefit from chelation?

> > > > Any advice from people who have been there is

> appreciated.

> > > Meanwhile he is making good progress from our other

> > interventions

> > > (supplements, minerals, therapy), but I feel that we

should

> also

> > > tackle detoxification.

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Before doing the challenge, read this and decide if you still want to do

this test:

vacy Pvitamin

1: Environ Health Perspect. 2001 Feb;109(2):167-71. Related Articles,

Links

Diagnostic chelation challenge with DMSA: a biomarker of long-term mercury

exposure?

Frumkin H, Manning CC, PL, A, BB, Pierce M, Elon L,

Hertzberg VS.

Department of Environmental and Occupational Health, Emory University,

Atlanta, Georgia, USA. medhf@...

Chelation challenge testing has been used to assess the body burden of

various metals. The best-known example is EDTA challenge in lead-exposed

individuals. This study assessed diagnostic chelation challenge with

dimercaptosuccinic

acid (DMSA) as a measure of mercury body burden among mercury-exposed workers.

Former employees at a chloralkali plant, for whom detailed exposure histories

were available (n = 119), and unexposed controls (n = 101) completed 24-hr

urine collections before and after the administration of two doses of DMSA, 10

mg/kg. The urinary response to DMSA was measured as both the absolute change and

the relative change in mercury excretion. The average 24-hr mercury excretion

was 4.3 microg/24 hr before chelation, and 7.8 microg/24 hr after chelation.

There was no association between past occupational mercury exposure and the

urinary excretion of mercury either before or after DMSA administration. There

was also no association between urinary mercury excretion and the number of

dental amalgam surfaces, in contrast to recent published results. We believe the

most likely reason that DMSA chelation challenge failed to reflect past

mercury exposure was the elapsed time (several years) since the exposure had

ended.

These results provide normative values for urinary mercury excretion both

before and after DMSA challenge, and suggest that DMSA chelation challenge is

not

useful as a biomarker of past mercury exposure.

PMID: 11266328 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

> Our DAN doctor has suggested the DMSA challenge. We are not

> 100% gf/cf - would this make any difference.

I do not think so. I do not know of any links between chelation and

gf/cf diet.

Before deciding to do the DMSA challenge, you might want to read

archived posts on this.

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/

I decided NOT to do the DMSA challenge test, instead I did a 3 days

chelation round under Andy's protocol.

>

> What other supplements should we be taking to assist with

> chelation?

A lot.

There are lots of info in the link above.

Magnesium, Zinc, Milk Thistle, Vit C, Vit E, B-complex, Vit A to name

a few...

If you can, do a CBC & diff and a chemical panel (including liver

enzymes) BEFORE starting chelation, so you'll have a reference that

might be useful down the road.

Good luck,

[Guest guest]

> I am considering the DMSA challenge but have not yet made a

> decision. I have read the pros/cons, etc. The dosage in capsule

is

> 200mg.

>

> What is the actual dosage of dmsa for a 44lb child? I am thinking

> that 200mg is very high.

you are correct.

The dosage recommended will depend whom you ask.

You can find Andy's often-quoted-on-this-list-recommendation, here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html

For 44 pound child the dose range would be

from 5 to 22 mg per dose. HOWEVER THIS MUST BE USED EVERY

4 HOURS FOR 3 DAYS OR LONGER.

>

> Can I split the 200 mg capsules up and is there a simple way to do

> this?

>

> I would have to mix the powder with something and probably put

into a

> syringe - any ideas of what to mask the flavor with?

see sections here on splitting up and mixing etc:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_buy_DMSA.html

>

> I have read the 4 hours vs. 8 hours protocal and understand that

the

> 4 hours is safer - this is what I would probably do.

>

> Do I just start out using DMSA first and then add in ALA?

if you want.

>

> What supps should I be doing before/during/after chelation?

see:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html

Look for the SECTION about supplements. Once you have

found that section, the first several items are about

supplements to use during chelation.

> Any that

> should given on off days instead of on days or vice-versa?

no.

>

> We don't have another appt with our doctor until May - I wanted to

do

> the challenge before we went but am frightened - I thought maybe

to

> just start chelating instead.

The safe way to do a challenge is to DO CHELATION and get

a urine (or fecal) test during the round. The results

are not necessarily useful.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

I would do a normal round, by weight per dose from 6mg up to to 25mg 4

hourly round the clock. I started with 12.5mg per dose, I still

only use 25mg now after 64 rounds.

Mandi in UK

My son is 6 years old and 48 lbs. Should I just do a regular round

and skip the challenge test.

How much per body weight?

[Guest guest]

For my " challenge test " I just did a normal round of chelation using Andy's

protocol (3 on/11 off - ALA/DMSA - 25mg/25mg) and collected urine for 12

hours on the 3rd day.

I did not tell the doctor I was doing it this way as I do sometimes need a

doctor to order labs and other things.

[ ] DMSA challenge

> We just returned from our last DAN visit and our Dr. wants us to do

> the challenge test with 200mg DMSA every eight hours for 3 days. I

> know I have read that this is way too much. Is this just the DAN

> protocol? Has anyone done this?

>

> I want to do this but want to make sure I am doing it appropriately.

> My son is 6 years old and 48 lbs. Should I just do a regular round

> and skip the challenge test.

>

> How much per body weight?

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> We just returned from our last DAN visit and our Dr. wants us to do

> the challenge test with 200mg DMSA every eight hours for 3 days. I

> know I have read that this is way too much. Is this just the DAN

> protocol? Has anyone done this?

Andy' protocol is 1/8 to 1/2 mg per lb. of body weight, every 4 hours

(even during the night) for DMSA. This is much safer than the DAN

method, even according to the DAN doc I've spoken to.

Nell

[Guest guest]

> > We just returned from our last DAN visit and our Dr. wants us to do

> > the challenge test with 200mg DMSA every eight hours for 3 days. I

> > know I have read that this is way too much. Is this just the DAN

> > protocol? Has anyone done this?

This is just the DAN! protocol, lots of people do this, most of them

regret it later.

> Andy' protocol is 1/8 to 1/2 mg per lb. of body weight, every 4 hours

> (even during the night) for DMSA. This is much safer than the DAN

> method, even according to the DAN doc I've spoken to.

Lots of DAN! doctors really do know what they are doing - they figure

out quickly not to follow a harmful and dangerous protocol just because

someone tells them to. Unfortunately not all DAN! doctors are that

sharp.

> Nell

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't do it. We did that once before I knew better and got a negative

reading for high mercury. You risk redistribution of metals by giving one big

dose of chelating agent. If you are confident there is a metal issue with your

child a lot of people, me included, are doing trial rounds of chelation. You do

a few rounds, stir some thing up and then do some testing. Many see some

improvement with each round they do. And yes, that is a lot of DMSA, we only

use about 12 mg. per dose and my son weighs about 40lbs.

JMO of course, good luck!

hollows68 <hollows@...> wrote:

I just joined, and I haven't had a chance to read much yet, but I think

I have at least gotten the picture on low and frequent dosing of

chelators. I am confused because my DAN! nutritionist has recommended

that instead of doing a hair test for metals, we do a DMSA challenge

with one dose at betime, 500 mg., and take urine for DDI UTM test in

the morning. Am I wrong, or is the ALOT of DMSA? Why would he

recommend this? What are the risks?

Thanks so much,

Kim

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Thanks . I knew it sounded wrong, but was unsure what to say

to Nutritionist about it. When you say you got a negative reading

for mercury, I'm assuming that was a false negative?

> I just joined, and I haven't had a chance to read much yet, but I

think

> I have at least gotten the picture on low and frequent dosing of

> chelators. I am confused because my DAN! nutritionist has

recommended

> that instead of doing a hair test for metals, we do a DMSA

challenge

> with one dose at betime, 500 mg., and take urine for DDI UTM test

in

> the morning. Am I wrong, or is the ALOT of DMSA? Why would he

> recommend this? What are the risks?

>

> Thanks so much,

> Kim

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

No problem, it is very common for Drs. to want to test that way. It is easy and

many think it is effective. The problem is it just doesn't get a good

representation. I know I am speaking for others but I seriously read most of

what is posted here and many say that metals aren't always predictable in coming

out of the body. I think just about everyone sees at least small changes with

each round. We want to get the metals out but we need to do it safely. It is

better for their bodies, they are all still very small children. We don't want

to overload their livers or kidneys and we want to limit those metals settling

in other places causing more damage.

For us, I really think we got a false positive. We are still in our trial round

stage and about to do more testing to actually see what he is getting rid of.

We did the hair test and are awaiting results for that. I say I assume it was

false because he was born in 1999 and thus got the full load of mercury. All of

our family has autoimmune system issues on my side and one or two on my

husband's side. I think all in my immediate family, me included have mercury

issues.

Soon enough we will know. I have one more filling to get out and then I will

start chelation on myself. I have moderate ADD and even have some symptoms that

my son has.

I truly wish you well. I know this is a scary and exciting thing to be starting

with your child. Ask others about the challange as well. Everytime someone

posts about that many talk about the possible dangers of that. You can probably

also go to archives and search for challenge.

Hope this helps!

hollows68 <hollows@...> wrote:

Thanks . I knew it sounded wrong, but was unsure what to say

to Nutritionist about it. When you say you got a negative reading

for mercury, I'm assuming that was a false negative?

> I just joined, and I haven't had a chance to read much yet, but I

think

> I have at least gotten the picture on low and frequent dosing of

> chelators. I am confused because my DAN! nutritionist has

recommended

> that instead of doing a hair test for metals, we do a DMSA

challenge

> with one dose at betime, 500 mg., and take urine for DDI UTM test

in

> the morning. Am I wrong, or is the ALOT of DMSA? Why would he

> recommend this? What are the risks?

>

> Thanks so much,

> Kim

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

I am glad that I DID NOT do a challenge on my son. He is 6.4 yo, 56 lbs and

we have been chelating with oral DMSA at 8 mg per does for the past 2

months. When I tried to increase the dose to 12 mg per dose.... within 3

hours he threw it up and everything he ate for breakfast after 1 dose. So,

for him, 12 mg was too much for his body (IMO).

Jackie---

>

> I just joined, and I haven't had a chance to read much yet, but I

> think I have at least gotten the picture on low and frequent dosing of

> chelators. I am confused because my DAN! nutritionist has

> recommended that instead of doing a hair test for metals, we do a DMSA

> challenge > with one dose at betime, 500 mg., and take urine for DDI UTM

> test

> in the morning. Am I wrong, or is the ALOT of DMSA? Why would he

> recommend this? What are the risks?

>

> Thanks so much,

> Kim

[Guest guest]

Sounds like what you might give a 250-pound man besides may not be

necessary to do a challenge test.

It is good that you are asking what seems to be troubling you about

the challenge test, reading about low dose protocols and also opened

to hearing what other parents have to say. I read this group silently

for a long time before even starting chelation. By listening to other

parents concerns I had learned to ask the right Q's especially at

Dr visit times.

I know not too much of anyone in the mainstream medical community has

a clue and finding a Dan! Can seem as A Godsend. However you will

still need to be cautious on that one even though we can say were on

common grounds. Trust your instinct it will always lead you to ask

the right questions.

As a parent who was following the Dan! Protocol for about 4 years,

(with much progress).

After about 2 years into bio approached chelation, we saw success

with every round.

However we started to trust what we believed is good sound advice,

Tools /Tests /doctors as the final authority, instead of my sons

progress.

And it was a TEST and a DOCTOR that led us to discontinue chelating

our son. Sad to say a year and a half went by….

After a long time of waiting to be told what is right. I came back

to this group and posted for the first time searching for the answers

that were here all along.

I was greeted with a kind welcome from many parents as well as the

sound advice from Andy C who

He was kind enough to interpret older tests as he applied the

counting rules. He also gave warnings of improper use of a chelator,

as well as advised not to relying on these types of tests.

I found all the answers I needed to hear that would put us back on

the road to recovery.

Stay on course what you believe is right, question anything that does

not .

Trust your instinct and learn to read the child in their recovery

process.

At age seven we are still making gains with every round of chelation.

Many thanks to all of you.

Kenny V

Father to

> I just joined, and I haven't had a chance to read much yet, but I

think

> I have at least gotten the picture on low and frequent dosing of

> chelators. I am confused because my DAN! nutritionist has

recommended

> that instead of doing a hair test for metals, we do a DMSA

challenge

> with one dose at betime, 500 mg., and take urine for DDI UTM test

in

> the morning. Am I wrong, or is the ALOT of DMSA? Why would he

> recommend this? What are the risks?

>

> Thanks so much,

> Kim

[Guest guest]

> Sounds like what you might give a 250-pound man besides may not be

> necessary to do a challenge test.

>

Sorry for a comment to come out likes this.

What I would like to add is the CHALLENGE is finding a doctor who is

knowledgeable enough about implementing chelation with our children.

And tests are only tools that must be used properly.

A hammer can be used as a precision instrument to drive with

accuracy,

but it also can crush if misused.