Re: (unknown)

[Guest guest]

,

I never saw your original post, but trigger refers to the antigen particle,

usually a protein, that confuses the immune system, causing autoantibody

production. It also refers to anything that causes the immune system to alter

its normal function. For instance, stress causes changes in white blood cells

and immune system chemicals known as cytokines. These changes also cause

certain white blood cells known as T lymphocytes to become activated, and

this is the first step in autoantibody production. Triggers can then cause

these T lymphocytes to multiply, increasing the amount of autoantibodies in

the circulation. Also the cytokines,which are messenger molecules, perpetuate

the autoimmune process.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Glad to hear you liked Dr. Greenspan. B's docs at Mayo's told her the

same thing about autoimmune thyroid disorders 2 years ago.

All of the different variations, HT, GD, primary myxedema, even GO, may occur

at different times in one individual over a lifetime. The primary disorder at

the time depends on what autoantibodies are predominating. The primary

diseases are still considered for treatment, but there are often gray

areas---like people with HT can have intermittant hyperT symptoms making it

seem like they have both disorders. And in GD, there are often variable

periods of symptom severity and remission, making it seem like you have HT

one day and GD another. That also explains why many people on ATD's or

replacement med or who are on remission sometimes feel like their levels are

off. Did Dr. G. think your daughter's condition was at all thyroid related?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am glad that your appointment went well with Dr. Greenspan. He sounds

like a real gem.

Debbie R.

[Guest guest]

Hi Anise,

Elaine said >>>>I don't think you want to have a total thyroidectomy just to

decrease thyroid antibodies. Besides, the common practice today is to leave

a small amount of thyroid tissue. The idea here is that you'll have less

functional thyroid tissue. And that means less thyroid cells that can make

thyroid hormone.<<<<

She wasn't addressing the making of the antibodies here, she was talking

about thyroid hormone. When the antibodies are attacking the thyroid, the

thyroid makes more hormone and that is exactly what you dont' want or need

at this.

The B cells you were talking about are also discussed in Elaine new book:

Graves Disease A Practical Guide. I am only into chapter 4 right now, but

it is an excellant book. Even after being in group for almost 2 years now,

I am learning more and more. We can't learn all this stuff overnight

Though at times I think I have tried, problem is the brain fog just gets too

much in the way at times.

You can also read a number of Articles regarding antibodies at

www.suite101.com do a search for Elaine .

Another book many have spoken highly of (which I still don't have <hanging

head> is Thyroid Solution Dr. Arem. There is another one, I can't remember

who wrote it, Screaming To Be Heard.

Keep reading and asking questions

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Anise,

The B cells that make thyroid hormone are primarily found in thyroid tissue.

Surgical specimens from Graves' patients are rich in B Cells and T Cells too.

According to current theory, the thyroid is the major site of TSI production.

From there, the immunoglobulins are carried through the blood.

All lymphocytes, both T and B cells are derived from the bone marrow. The T

cells go to the thymus where they mature, and the B cells develop in the bone

marrow. Mature, they travel through the circulation and some settle in

certain organs, known as primary and secondary lymphoid tissue. The thyroid

is a secondary site. Then autoreactive T cells stimulate immunoglobulin rich

B cells into making specific types of immunglobulins.

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

Jody, thanks for all the refs. you are quite right about Elaine's

email today (she sounds kind and obviously knows heaps), but I

was actually asking about what she said in the archives, in

message 3805, where she says " the TSI antibodies that cause

Graves Disease originate in the Thyroid. "

They don't: they originate in the spleen.

I guess she meant to say something else. But I just wanted to

get the facts clear. The whole immune system seems really

complicated, especially when it goes wrong. You are so right

about you can't learn it overnight. Does Elaine's book talk about

how to get the immune system back into good working

order?(That's one of my new projects) Can anyone tell me their

experiences with that, or have other good books or web pages

that really help in this area?

This partial thyroidectomy thing: that sounds like a compromise,

possibly be a really good compromise. How much of your thyroid

did they leave, Caroline? And did it mean you don't have to take

thyroid replacementor ATD? Did it give you an instant cure or

take time to have an effect? I hope you don't mind me being so

nosy.

> Hi Anise,

> Elaine said >>>>I don't think you want to have a total

thyroidectomy just to

> decrease thyroid antibodies. Besides, the common practice

today is to leave

> a small amount of thyroid tissue. The idea here is that you'll

have less

> functional thyroid tissue. And that means less thyroid cells that

can make

> thyroid hormone.<<<<

>

> She wasn't addressing the making of the antibodies here, she

was talking

> about thyroid hormone. When the antibodies are attacking the

thyroid, the

> thyroid makes more hormone and that is exactly what you dont'

want or need

> at this.

>

> The B cells you were talking about are also discussed in

Elaine new book:

> Graves Disease A Practical Guide. I am only into chapter 4

right now, but

> it is an excellant book. Even after being in group for almost 2

years now,

> I am learning more and more. We can't learn all this stuff

overnight

> Though at times I think I have tried, problem is the brain fog

just gets too

> much in the way at times.

>

> You can also read a number of Articles regarding antibodies at

> www.suite101.com do a search for Elaine .

>

> Another book many have spoken highly of (which I still don't

have <hanging

> head> is Thyroid Solution Dr. Arem. There is another one, I

can't remember

> who wrote it, Screaming To Be Heard.

>

> Keep reading and asking questions

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

_______________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Hi Anise,

Elaine will have to explain about the TSI...I still get so lost with some of

stuff...I understand it in my head...but trying to explain it to someone

else, I just can't, and not make it understandable or get it twisted.

What treatment are you currently on? What led you to a dr. for diagnosis?

Did they do the antibody testing to confirm it is GD? I ask that one

because I was dx with GD and never had the antibody testing, was rushed into

RAI and left hypo for 4 years. And now I am just starting the trip with GO

(graves ophthalmology). RAI tends to bring this on When you went to the

dr. did you get a copy of your labs? That is one thing you do want to make

sure to do...as you move along with this, you may want to journal it, how

your feeling what's going on and compare the cycle with what your labs are

saying to help you find the best dose of meds for you.

Read the posts from Caroline, I believe they started last October, do the

search under . Also read B's posts as she has gone a

more holistic approach in conjunction with her physician. A has

several posts about relaxing and reducing stress (which is our greatest

enemy). Yes, Elaine's book on GD does contain several pages about the

immune system, though this is in relationship to GD. She will be having

another book out on autoimmune diseases and environmental triggers, sometime

early next year I'm guessing.

The fact that you are doing the research before being rushed into any

treatment is a great thing. I could not imagine how I would have done that

when I was so hyper! Caroline will answer your posts but it may take a few

days, she just had her baby on August 4th.

Keep reading and writing

Jody

PS can you give me the reference for the spleens involvement in this, I

would also like to read that too! Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Autoimmune hemolytic anemias are sporadic but generally cause severe anemia.

I think you would have known if you had this one.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

If you had a blood count during this time, even if you weren't anemic, there

should have been some bizarre changes in your red blood cells suggestive of

this disorder. We see it often in lupus patients and it makes cross matching

blood very difficult because the serum in patients with AIHA reacts with

everything, making it hard to tell if there are blood group antibodies.

Most often it's triggered by medications, such as quinine. What happens is

the drug acts like a hapten reacting with the surface of red blood cells.

Then this red blood cell complex is recognized as foreign and the immune

system makes autoantibodies against the red blood cells. The autoantibodies

can coat the cells and lyse them.

While Raynaud's is associated with AIHA, Graves' disease, Sjogren's, Lupus,

Scleroderma and many autoimmune disorders, many people have Raynaud's with no

signs of autoimmune disease.

[Guest guest]

> Autoimmune hemolytic anemias are sporadic but generally cause

severe anemia.

> I think you would have known if you had this one.

Hi Elaine,

How are you doing?

I bring it up because I DO think I might have had this one. For

many years, during and following my infectious disease peroid, which

came before the hyperthyroid peroid. I was treated with injections of

iron and tabs of the stuff for many years. It was a clinic situation,

until I moved here, where my doctor watched while I got very ill and

never figured out i had autoimmunity going on.

From Merck:

Cold antibody disease (cold-agglutinin disease) is a hemolytic

anemia caused by autoantibodies that react at temperatures < 37° C

(usually < 30° C [86° F]). The disease is associated with infections

(especially mycoplasmal pneumonias or infectious mononucleosis) and

lymphoproliferative states; about 1/2 of cases are idiopathic, which

is the common form in older adults. It presents clinically as an

acute (most commonly associated with viral or bacterial infections)

or chronic (most commonly idiopathic) hemolytic anemia. Other

cryopathic symptoms or signs may be present (eg, acrocyanoses,

Raynaud's phenomena, cold-associated occlusive changes).

Laboratory features are those of extravascular hemolysis; rarely,

cases are fulminant and severe and associated with hemoglobinemia and

hemosiderinuria. Special features include clumping of RBCs on the

smear. Autoagglutination is often reflected by an increased MCV and

spurious low Hb recorded on automatic cell counting instruments; hand

warming of the tube and recounting result in values significantly

closer to normal. The anemia is usually mild; Hb is generally > 7.5

g/dL. Cold antibodies are usually IgM reacting against RBC membrane

glycoproteins, termed " i " to denote RBC characteristics of fetal

cells or " I, " the membrane pattern of adult cells. Anti-i cold

agglutinins occur most commonly in infectious mononucleosis and

malignant lymphoma of the large cell type. Anti-I agglutinins occur

in idiopathic disease and after mycoplasmal pneumonia. In either case

the IgM activates and binds C3, and the degree of hemolysis relates

to the potency of this action and the temperature at which the

reaction occurs. The higher the temperature (ie, the closer it is to

normal body temperature) at which the antibody reacts with the RBC,

the greater the hemolysis. Because IgM easily washes off the cells,

the direct antiglobulin (Coombs') test usually identifies only C3

fixed to the cells. As expected, the hemolysis occurs largely in the

mononuclear phagocyte system of the liver.

Therapy is largely supportive in acute cases, which are generally

caused by infection, because the anemia is self-limited. In chronic

cases, the anemia is generally mild. Treatment of the underlying

disease controls the anemia. In idiopathic chronic cases, the anemia

is generally mild (Hb, 9 to 10 g/dL) but may persist for life.

Avoidance of cold exposure is often helpful. Splenectomy is of no

value. Immunosuppressive drugs have only modest effectiveness.

Transfusions should be given cautiously with the blood warmed via an

on-line warmer. Autologous cell survival may be better than that of

transfused cells because the administered blood becomes antibody-

coated; autologous cells have already survived the antibody effect on

the RBCs, and effete C3 fragments (C3d) on their surface do not

affect RBC survival.

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section11/chapter127/127d.htm

[Guest guest]

Dear

Thanks for sending this lovely meditation to us. I will send on to others I know

also.

Cheers

Caroline

[Guest guest]

Dear Caroline,

You are so welcome. Over the past few month of reading your posts

your very great beauty continuously shines through. I am sure this

meditation is very easy for you!

I salute the God in you (namaste!)

> Dear

>

> Thanks for sending this lovely meditation to us. I will send on to

others I know also.

>

> Cheers

> Caroline

[Guest guest]

Maeve,

I am sorry for your loss but like you can see the fact that he hung on for

your anniversary.

It is clear he loved you very much. May the memories of your life together

offer you comfort in the days ahead. Please stop by and let us know how you are

doing

God bless

Narice

[Guest guest]

LOL! Thats funny! Lol. Sounds like something my nanny would say.lol. How

are you Akiba? Im behind as usual. Trying to catch up some. Take care.

luv n hugz,cassy

(unknown)

An elderly couple was attending church

services. About halfway

through she leans over and says to her husband, ' I just let

out a silent fart. What do you think I should do?'

He replies 'The first thing I would do is put a new battery in your

hearing aid.'  Peace & Blessings ~*~ Akiba ~*~ Pragmatic

Visionary Do what you love Love what you do

[Guest guest]

LOL! Thats funny! Lol. Sounds like something my nanny would say.lol. How

are you Akiba? Im behind as usual. Trying to catch up some. Take care.

luv n hugz,cassy

(unknown)

An elderly couple was attending church

services. About halfway

through she leans over and says to her husband, ' I just let

out a silent fart. What do you think I should do?'

He replies 'The first thing I would do is put a new battery in your

hearing aid.'  Peace & Blessings ~*~ Akiba ~*~ Pragmatic

Visionary Do what you love Love what you do

[Guest guest]

I'm good. I know I've been quiet lately, just being still in my winter hibernation state, waiting for Spring to live up to it's name, and Spring! Hugs Akiba -- (unknown)An elderly couple was attending church services. About halfwaythrough she leans over and says to her husband, ' I just letout a silent fart. What do you think I should do?'He replies 'The first thing I would do is put a new battery in your hearing aid.'  Peace & Blessings ~*~ Akiba ~*~ Pragmatic Visionary Do what you love Love what you do

[Guest guest]

I'm good. I know I've been quiet lately, just being still in my winter hibernation state, waiting for Spring to live up to it's name, and Spring! Hugs Akiba -- (unknown)An elderly couple was attending church services. About halfwaythrough she leans over and says to her husband, ' I just letout a silent fart. What do you think I should do?'He replies 'The first thing I would do is put a new battery in your hearing aid.'  Peace & Blessings ~*~ Akiba ~*~ Pragmatic Visionary Do what you love Love what you do

[Guest guest]

Wow, your "backyard" is beautiful!

What a little cutie your Ya-Ya is! )

Hugs,

Challis

(unknown)

Hello all!

Here's a couple of pics of the little girl I take care of. Trying to get a good shot of here was exhausting. I don't think she's used to getting her picture taken. But, you can still see that she's a real cutie.

I've also added a picture of the pond in our back yard. This is the view you see from our sliding glass door.

Love and blessings...

Val <*)))><

http://www.happytra ilsfarm.us

Euphemisms are unpleasant truths wearing diplomatic cologne. ~Quentin Crisp~

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Wow, your "backyard" is beautiful!

What a little cutie your Ya-Ya is! )

Hugs,

Challis

(unknown)

Hello all!

Here's a couple of pics of the little girl I take care of. Trying to get a good shot of here was exhausting. I don't think she's used to getting her picture taken. But, you can still see that she's a real cutie.

I've also added a picture of the pond in our back yard. This is the view you see from our sliding glass door.

Love and blessings...

Val <*)))><

http://www.happytra ilsfarm.us

Euphemisms are unpleasant truths wearing diplomatic cologne. ~Quentin Crisp~

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Wow, your "backyard" is beautiful!

What a little cutie your Ya-Ya is! )

Hugs,

Challis

(unknown)

Hello all!

Here's a couple of pics of the little girl I take care of. Trying to get a good shot of here was exhausting. I don't think she's used to getting her picture taken. But, you can still see that she's a real cutie.

I've also added a picture of the pond in our back yard. This is the view you see from our sliding glass door.

Love and blessings...

Val <*)))><

http://www.happytra ilsfarm.us

Euphemisms are unpleasant truths wearing diplomatic cologne. ~Quentin Crisp~

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Too precious Val!

Connie

(unknown)

Hello all!

Here's a couple of pics of the little girl I take care of. Trying to get a good shot of here was exhausting. I don't think she's used to getting her picture taken. But, you can still see that she's a real cutie.

I've also added a picture of the pond in our back yard. This is the view you see from our sliding glass door.

Love and blessings...

Val <*)))><

http://www.happytrailsfarm.us

Euphemisms are unpleasant truths wearing diplomatic cologne. ~Quentin Crisp~

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Too precious Val!

Connie

(unknown)

Hello all!

Here's a couple of pics of the little girl I take care of. Trying to get a good shot of here was exhausting. I don't think she's used to getting her picture taken. But, you can still see that she's a real cutie.

I've also added a picture of the pond in our back yard. This is the view you see from our sliding glass door.

Love and blessings...

Val <*)))><

http://www.happytrailsfarm.us

Euphemisms are unpleasant truths wearing diplomatic cologne. ~Quentin Crisp~

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Too precious Val!

Connie

(unknown)

Hello all!

Here's a couple of pics of the little girl I take care of. Trying to get a good shot of here was exhausting. I don't think she's used to getting her picture taken. But, you can still see that she's a real cutie.

I've also added a picture of the pond in our back yard. This is the view you see from our sliding glass door.

Love and blessings...

Val <*)))><

http://www.happytrailsfarm.us

Euphemisms are unpleasant truths wearing diplomatic cologne. ~Quentin Crisp~

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I'll try to get it typed out tomorrow, it's a big job, and like I said might

be hard to get it right out of my head to paper since I go by look and

taste! LOL

Connie

(unknown)

> Can I have the recipe for liver loaf too? That sounds

> good! Jolie

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'll try to get it typed out tomorrow, it's a big job, and like I said might

be hard to get it right out of my head to paper since I go by look and

taste! LOL

Connie

(unknown)

> Can I have the recipe for liver loaf too? That sounds

> good! Jolie

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

> ------------------------------------

>

>