Re: (unknown)

[Guest guest]

I did not ask you to base your life on a maybe. Of course men get auto

immune disease

but look at the ratios even on this board. And look at the amount of

time and effort it took to get diagnosis for many of these people.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I forgot to add that hormonal changes are thought to be a trigger for

autoimmune disease. Men do not have the major hormonal fluctuations that

women do (although they do have some) even if they do have testosterone as

an immunomodulator.

Unfortunately, Graves' disease symptoms are very similar to symptoms of

anxiety. Although almost all Graves' patients have symptoms of anxiety

(fast HR, etc...), few people with anxiety disorder have high thyroid

hormone levels. And this is what I think is the major reason that diagnosis

is delayed. We live in a high stress society which is why I think that many

cases of Graves' are dismissed as anxiety.

Take care,

Re: (unknown)

> I did not ask you to base your life on a maybe. Of course men get auto

> immune disease

> but look at the ratios even on this board. And look at the amount of

> time and effort it took to get diagnosis for many of these people.

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know, some major diseases used to have some adaptive value. People with

diabetes survived during times of famine, whereas, people without it died of

starvation. People with sickle cell anemia would survive bouts of malaria

where their " healthy " counterparts died. In both cases, these survivors

were able to pass on their genes.

Who knows what the design is in the grand scheme of things? If you ask the

people that have diabetes and sickle cell anemia now about anything positive

about their diseases, they'd be hardpressed to think of anything positive.

However, if you asked their ancestors a couple hundred years ago, how they

would feel about having these diseases when everyone around them was dying,

I'll bet they could think of something.

Maybe those of us that have Graves' could survive some great epidemic where

others couldn't. We don't know.

Take care,

Re: (unknown)

> I am 48 years, I have 5 children, two grandchildren and a new one on the

way.

> I have just recently found out I have Graves Disease but I would have had

all

> five of my kids even if I had GD before they were conceived. If any of my

> children develop this GD disease they will have to deal with it as we all

> have to deal with it. I'll admit it isn't pleasant but I sure am not

blaming

> my parents or grandparents for causing me to have it. I do not want my

kids

> to get it but I sure wouldn't have given up on the chance to have my great

> family because of a slight chance one of them may develop it. Because we

have

> it if our children show the slightest symptoms at least we know what tests

> they need and it can be dealt with right away. Autoimmune disease don't

> really run in my family, with the exception of my Mom who developed

vitiligo

> about 10 years ago. I now have it and I sure don't blame her.

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely

preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember where I

read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll likely

come across it again.

[Guest guest]

, believe it or not I don't think that Graves is an auto immune

disease but that is only my opinion . I also don't believe that all of

us on this board have Graves disease. I think Graves is a retro virus.

Yet for many diseases, not only auto immune we must have a genetic

predisposition and that predisposition is not always obvious. And a

predisposition is not a certainty that we will contract a condition.

But I know that having this disease has led me down some interesting

paths. such as disease and blood groups. I have learned things that are

incredible. I too chose not to have children. I think I made the right

decision.

[Guest guest]

I should add that I didn't have GD or didn't know I did when I had my two

girls. Would knowing I had it made a difference no. I believe that

children are a gift from God. I love children, always have and wanted a big

family. For years we tried to have another and then after 9 yrs. our

miracle was created. I will not say I wasn't concerned then, I was but God

gave me the gift of bearing that child, so he was brought into the world

loved. He is the joy of our life, all four of our lives. Believe it or

not, I have a sister who don't know how to be a Mother. There are days I am

glad my mother don't have to be here and see the hurt my sisters son goes

through. I was raised God don't give you anything you can't handle and I

believe in that statement. Also I believe there is a reason for everything.

But, one thing I know now that I will watch my children and teach them to

watch themselves. My dads mother and most of her siblings died from cancer.

My husband and I are firm believers that you are what you eat and that the

way foods are grown is what causes all these diseases. That is why we raise

alot of the food we eat. My husband grew up on the biggest dairy farm in

our county, he knew a long time ago that feeding the animals blood products

and manure wasn't good. That is why we raise our own and that is why we

still eat meat. Very seldom do we eat out. My neighbor laughs because she

says my children are the healthiest around. I cook 3 meals a day from

scratch, I wash all vegetable and fruit products when they come in the door.

It might not be the best, but I try. My children also know how to cook from

scratch, not a package. I believe that package food is bad for you.

When I went off the blood thinner I couldn't sleep, I laid in that bed

waiting for a blood clot to kill me. Then my husband told me, Deb, you are

going to kill yourself with worry. " I joined this group so maybe my

children and grandchildren won't have to suffer.

Yes, I think we've all asked ourselves if we should have children.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

But if it's not an autoimmune disease, then why do autoantibodies stimulate

the TSH (thyrotropin) receptors in the thyroid. That's the definition of

autoimmune disease. What causes us to have the autoantibody reaction is

what's not known. But they think that there's a genetic propensity for it

that isn't apparent until an appropriate trigger is met. Interestingly,

there's an intestinal bacteria commonly found that is an antigen that is a

match for the autoantibodies we form. I'm not saying that this bacteria is

the trigger, it might not be or it may be one of several, but it's

interesting that it's found in our guts which are highly vascularized.

There is an interesting Graves' review article by Weetman in the New

England Journal of Medicine (343:1236-1248) that discusses autoimmunity to

the thyrotropin receptor (Elaine, I know you have this article too). It

says:

" The thyrotropin receptor is a member of the family of G protein-coupled

receptors. The mechanism by which thyroid-stimulating antibodies bind to

and activate the thyrotropin receptor is not known, but studies with mutated

receptors and thyrotropin-receptor sequences have revealed that

thyroid-stimulating antibodies bind to conformational epitopes in the

extracellular domain of the thyrotropin receptor. These epitopes make up

discontinuous seqments that overlap the binding site for thyrotropin. The

production of thyroid-stimulating antibodies is dependent on T cells, and

circulating T cells recognize multiple epitopes of the thyrotropin receptor.

" Although thyroid-stimulating antibodies cause Graves' hyperthyroidism, the

serum antibody concentrations are very low and are even undetectable in a

few patients.... "

Anyhow, the autoantibodies are there. And I have no idea why I was the

" lucky " one to find the appropriate trigger at the right time and ended up

with Graves'. But I definitely think there's some kind of genetic

propensity in my family and that no one else (at least of my still-living

relatives) has had the misfortune of finding the appropriate trigger (Red is

right about relatives who have grown old and died. I have, however,

extensively interviewed my relatives that are living and no one else is

having any problems).

Take care,

[Guest guest]

Hi Elaine-

That makes perfect sense. People that have cancer have immune systems that

don't recognize faulty cells. Ours work a little too well.

I'd be very interested to read that.

Take care,

Re: (unknown)

> Hey ,

> I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely

> preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember where

I

> read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll

likely

> come across it again.

[Guest guest]

>What causes us to have the autoantibody reaction is

> what's not known.

This is the quid, and is perfectly explained by studing the

psychophysiology of stress.

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

>>>>I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely

>>>>preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember

>>>>where I read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so

>>>>I'll likely come across it again.<<<<

When you find this report can you either share with us or send the URL? I

would like to read it.

Thanks,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I think that stress is probably one trigger. There are an awful lot of

people that develop Graves' after a traumatic time. But I think there might

be others too.

Take care,

Re: (unknown)

>

>

>

>

> >What causes us to have the autoantibody reaction is

> > what's not known.

>

>

> This is the quid, and is perfectly explained by studing the

> psychophysiology of stress.

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi -

>

> I think that stress is probably one trigger. There are an awful

lot of

> people that develop Graves' after a traumatic time. But I think

there might

> be others too.

>

> Take care,

>

>

I know, I know.

But what I mean is that the immune system failure is perfectly

explained by studing the psychophysiology of stress.

A.

[Guest guest]

I've read something about that too Elaine. I think it was in a thyroid

book I'll have a look.

[Guest guest]

There is a giant test of HRT therapy taking place in Europe and the US.

HRT has been given to women for almost fifty years and apprently no

definative study has ever been done. In the early days only estrogen was

given. When women began dying of uterine cancer, progesterone was added

to solve that little problem. Some recent studies have shown that over

the long term there might be some heart protection but in the short

course there is none in fact in could be harmful in the first two years.

There is a higher risk of breast cancer when progesterone is in the mix

as opposed to only taking estrogen. The scientists are hoping that they

will find that HRT will give women's bones some protection. We might

find out the truth then again we might not. Estrogen replacement is a

billion dollar industry.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I'm loving this conversation and am learning a lot, thanks to so many people

who've posted articles, definitions, etc.

Here's my question: if folks with an autoimmune disease may receive some

sort of protection from cancer because of the overzealous nature of our

immune systems, what do we make of the link between endometriosis and

cancer?

Nobody scream--I'm not saying there's a link. The endometriosis

association, a very intelligent, highly mobilized group of sufferers and

physicians, has speculated that endom. puts women at increased risk for

various types of cancer (with lots of research backing up their theories)

and they also speculate that endom. is an autoimmune disease. However, I

don't think the problem has that official classification, which might not

mean much.

Anyway, I'm loving the anti-cancer idea, but have always been concerned by

some of the endom.association's theories, because they seem so sane, sound,

and scary.

B

Re: (unknown)

>

>

> > Hey ,

> > I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely

> > preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember

where

> I

> > read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll

> likely

> > come across it again.

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Wow on your idea here. I say that because my mom had a total hysterectomy

at age 36 because of endo, my older sister had one at age 33 (left 1 ovary),

my younger sister has been told she has a 'mild case' of endo, and I was

told I would probably have to have a hysterectomy before I was 35 because of

this...yet I have had NO problems in this area and I'm almost 49. I started

my periods at age 10, have had them every 28 days (and when pregnant for the

first 3 months of all pregnancies) until last year when I had my THR dose

changed.

Now, I have believed that I have had GD since '86 after 3 major moves and

the death of our youngest daughter, I was diagnosed in '96...

But I have had severe heat intolerance since I was a very little girl, (age

2 were first symptoms), peeling nails my whole life on and off, pain in knee

joints, an undiagnosed illness at age 8 where I started losing my hair, ran

low grade temp, some swollen glands and all tests showed up negative (my

sister reminded me of this recently)...so here is my 'what if'

What if I have had undiagnosed GD since I was a child and that has kept me

from getting the endom.? Though all of my pregnancies were complicated (no

one else's in family were).

Just some more what ifs to add to the equation.

Take care,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I'm not sure how'd they figure that out. Endometriosis is the proliferation

of endometrium outside of the uterus. It kind of just starts growing

everywhere. I've never heard of any inflammation involved with it but who

knows. I was kind of wondering the same thing about PCOS since they don't

know what causes it.

Do they say why they think endometriosis is an autoimmune disease?

I wonder if the type of autoimmune disease you have makes a difference in

stopping some forms of cancer while offering no protection or even

increasing the risk for others. I'm completely speculating here.

Take care,

Re: (unknown)

> >

> >

> > > Hey ,

> > > I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely

> > > preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember

> where

> > I

> > > read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll

> > likely

> > > come across it again.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------------------------

> > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> > ----------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi , of course you are right but most people think of stress as

mental.

[Guest guest]

> Hi , of course you are right but most people think of stress as

> mental.

Sure, I know.

Mental impairment and Down Syndrome are also a mental things.

However it's well known that in iodine or iron deficient areas, this

happens… just because of those deficiencies!. (pure chemistry!). Yet

Down Syndrome and mental impairment can also be caused by

environmental pollution and by radiation (...more chemistry). A study

by the Russian Academy of Sciences revealed that radiation from an

uranium mine had caused mental impairment in 95% of the children of

one town in Russia.

Epidemiologists have detected a statistically significant increase in

the birth of children with Down's Syndrome which is linked to

radiation from the explosion of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor. The

increase was dependent on rainfall in the period following the

explosion. Excess Down's Syndrome births were recorded in parts of

Germany, Scandinavia and the Lothian region of central Scotland nine

months after the disaster.

Lead in the environment is a threat, with the blood-lead level of one

child in 10 in the UK high enough for intelligence to be affected.

The intelligence of Inuit children in the Arctic is being damaged by

PCBs which originate in the tropics and arrive in Canada within a

week (this is chemistry too). (And yet Bush doesn't want to sign

Kyoto protocol, as he promised in his campaign, just because oil

companies have funded him, and they wouldn't like it. You all should

write your local representatives to ask him to sign. Your children,

and your grandchildren are at risk. This affects the whole world, and

USA alone is responsible for the 25% of air pollution.)

Calling stress " mental " sounds to me the same as when doctors say

the " that's all in your head " thing. However they are right –in other

sense perhaps they don't suspect-.

I have over 200 articles with the last `discoveries' related to brain

biochemistry, and I have not yet started to research brain. These are

only articles I found by chance, while searching for other

information, and saved them. The subject is very complicate, but

fascinating. And, as I said in other occasions, it's my impression

that solutions will come from this field –brain and body-

biochemistry. Too many data point out in that direction. Things which

are already known are impressive, and more will be in the next

few years.

Best regards

A.

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

About two years ago, AARDA began listing endometriosis as an autoimmune

disorder. I haven't started researching autoimmune reproductive disorders for

my environmental-autoimmune disease book yet--but I'm gathering lots of data.

When I learn more, I'll let you know. My deadline is September 1 so it

shouldn't be too far off.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

In both my mom and my sister they had the Endometriosis inside of their

uterus's as well.

TTYL,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Exactly, !

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody-

I wonder if it's because their endometrium was too thick? Or growing

irregularly thick in parts of their uterus. Do you know? They define it as

ectopic (outside of place). So maybe they mean that too.

Take care,

Re: (unknown)

> Hi ,

> In both my mom and my sister they had the Endometriosis inside of their

> uterus's as well.

> TTYL,

> Jody

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Both had the endometriosis both inside and outside. When my mom was

diagnosed in 1959 the dr. called it 'chocolate drop cysts' then gave her the

endom. name as well. I will talk with my sister on Easter Sunday when she

is here, but can't verify anything with my mom anymore, nor can any of us

access my moms medical records either here or in Indiana.

TTYL,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

interesting about the beer since, if you do have gluten sensitivity, beer

would bother you--from the barley in it.

I'm not sure how the minerals are related except for iodine being an

autoimmune thyroid disease trigger. You may have been leaching iodine from

tissues out into your blood stream along with sodium chloride, which is in

sweat.