Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 I did not ask you to base your life on a maybe. Of course men get auto immune disease but look at the ratios even on this board. And look at the amount of time and effort it took to get diagnosis for many of these people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Hi - I forgot to add that hormonal changes are thought to be a trigger for autoimmune disease. Men do not have the major hormonal fluctuations that women do (although they do have some) even if they do have testosterone as an immunomodulator. Unfortunately, Graves' disease symptoms are very similar to symptoms of anxiety. Although almost all Graves' patients have symptoms of anxiety (fast HR, etc...), few people with anxiety disorder have high thyroid hormone levels. And this is what I think is the major reason that diagnosis is delayed. We live in a high stress society which is why I think that many cases of Graves' are dismissed as anxiety. Take care, Re: (unknown) > I did not ask you to base your life on a maybe. Of course men get auto > immune disease > but look at the ratios even on this board. And look at the amount of > time and effort it took to get diagnosis for many of these people. > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 You know, some major diseases used to have some adaptive value. People with diabetes survived during times of famine, whereas, people without it died of starvation. People with sickle cell anemia would survive bouts of malaria where their " healthy " counterparts died. In both cases, these survivors were able to pass on their genes. Who knows what the design is in the grand scheme of things? If you ask the people that have diabetes and sickle cell anemia now about anything positive about their diseases, they'd be hardpressed to think of anything positive. However, if you asked their ancestors a couple hundred years ago, how they would feel about having these diseases when everyone around them was dying, I'll bet they could think of something. Maybe those of us that have Graves' could survive some great epidemic where others couldn't. We don't know. Take care, Re: (unknown) > I am 48 years, I have 5 children, two grandchildren and a new one on the way. > I have just recently found out I have Graves Disease but I would have had all > five of my kids even if I had GD before they were conceived. If any of my > children develop this GD disease they will have to deal with it as we all > have to deal with it. I'll admit it isn't pleasant but I sure am not blaming > my parents or grandparents for causing me to have it. I do not want my kids > to get it but I sure wouldn't have given up on the chance to have my great > family because of a slight chance one of them may develop it. Because we have > it if our children show the slightest symptoms at least we know what tests > they need and it can be dealt with right away. Autoimmune disease don't > really run in my family, with the exception of my Mom who developed vitiligo > about 10 years ago. I now have it and I sure don't blame her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hey , I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember where I read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll likely come across it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 , believe it or not I don't think that Graves is an auto immune disease but that is only my opinion . I also don't believe that all of us on this board have Graves disease. I think Graves is a retro virus. Yet for many diseases, not only auto immune we must have a genetic predisposition and that predisposition is not always obvious. And a predisposition is not a certainty that we will contract a condition. But I know that having this disease has led me down some interesting paths. such as disease and blood groups. I have learned things that are incredible. I too chose not to have children. I think I made the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 I should add that I didn't have GD or didn't know I did when I had my two girls. Would knowing I had it made a difference no. I believe that children are a gift from God. I love children, always have and wanted a big family. For years we tried to have another and then after 9 yrs. our miracle was created. I will not say I wasn't concerned then, I was but God gave me the gift of bearing that child, so he was brought into the world loved. He is the joy of our life, all four of our lives. Believe it or not, I have a sister who don't know how to be a Mother. There are days I am glad my mother don't have to be here and see the hurt my sisters son goes through. I was raised God don't give you anything you can't handle and I believe in that statement. Also I believe there is a reason for everything. But, one thing I know now that I will watch my children and teach them to watch themselves. My dads mother and most of her siblings died from cancer. My husband and I are firm believers that you are what you eat and that the way foods are grown is what causes all these diseases. That is why we raise alot of the food we eat. My husband grew up on the biggest dairy farm in our county, he knew a long time ago that feeding the animals blood products and manure wasn't good. That is why we raise our own and that is why we still eat meat. Very seldom do we eat out. My neighbor laughs because she says my children are the healthiest around. I cook 3 meals a day from scratch, I wash all vegetable and fruit products when they come in the door. It might not be the best, but I try. My children also know how to cook from scratch, not a package. I believe that package food is bad for you. When I went off the blood thinner I couldn't sleep, I laid in that bed waiting for a blood clot to kill me. Then my husband told me, Deb, you are going to kill yourself with worry. " I joined this group so maybe my children and grandchildren won't have to suffer. Yes, I think we've all asked ourselves if we should have children. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 But if it's not an autoimmune disease, then why do autoantibodies stimulate the TSH (thyrotropin) receptors in the thyroid. That's the definition of autoimmune disease. What causes us to have the autoantibody reaction is what's not known. But they think that there's a genetic propensity for it that isn't apparent until an appropriate trigger is met. Interestingly, there's an intestinal bacteria commonly found that is an antigen that is a match for the autoantibodies we form. I'm not saying that this bacteria is the trigger, it might not be or it may be one of several, but it's interesting that it's found in our guts which are highly vascularized. There is an interesting Graves' review article by Weetman in the New England Journal of Medicine (343:1236-1248) that discusses autoimmunity to the thyrotropin receptor (Elaine, I know you have this article too). It says: " The thyrotropin receptor is a member of the family of G protein-coupled receptors. The mechanism by which thyroid-stimulating antibodies bind to and activate the thyrotropin receptor is not known, but studies with mutated receptors and thyrotropin-receptor sequences have revealed that thyroid-stimulating antibodies bind to conformational epitopes in the extracellular domain of the thyrotropin receptor. These epitopes make up discontinuous seqments that overlap the binding site for thyrotropin. The production of thyroid-stimulating antibodies is dependent on T cells, and circulating T cells recognize multiple epitopes of the thyrotropin receptor. " Although thyroid-stimulating antibodies cause Graves' hyperthyroidism, the serum antibody concentrations are very low and are even undetectable in a few patients.... " Anyhow, the autoantibodies are there. And I have no idea why I was the " lucky " one to find the appropriate trigger at the right time and ended up with Graves'. But I definitely think there's some kind of genetic propensity in my family and that no one else (at least of my still-living relatives) has had the misfortune of finding the appropriate trigger (Red is right about relatives who have grown old and died. I have, however, extensively interviewed my relatives that are living and no one else is having any problems). Take care, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi Elaine- That makes perfect sense. People that have cancer have immune systems that don't recognize faulty cells. Ours work a little too well. I'd be very interested to read that. Take care, Re: (unknown) > Hey , > I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely > preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember where I > read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll likely > come across it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 >What causes us to have the autoantibody reaction is > what's not known. This is the quid, and is perfectly explained by studing the psychophysiology of stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Elaine, >>>>I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely >>>>preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember >>>>where I read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so >>>>I'll likely come across it again.<<<< When you find this report can you either share with us or send the URL? I would like to read it. Thanks, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi - I think that stress is probably one trigger. There are an awful lot of people that develop Graves' after a traumatic time. But I think there might be others too. Take care, Re: (unknown) > > > > > >What causes us to have the autoantibody reaction is > > what's not known. > > > This is the quid, and is perfectly explained by studing the > psychophysiology of stress. > > > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 > Hi - > > I think that stress is probably one trigger. There are an awful lot of > people that develop Graves' after a traumatic time. But I think there might > be others too. > > Take care, > > I know, I know. But what I mean is that the immune system failure is perfectly explained by studing the psychophysiology of stress. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 I've read something about that too Elaine. I think it was in a thyroid book I'll have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 There is a giant test of HRT therapy taking place in Europe and the US. HRT has been given to women for almost fifty years and apprently no definative study has ever been done. In the early days only estrogen was given. When women began dying of uterine cancer, progesterone was added to solve that little problem. Some recent studies have shown that over the long term there might be some heart protection but in the short course there is none in fact in could be harmful in the first two years. There is a higher risk of breast cancer when progesterone is in the mix as opposed to only taking estrogen. The scientists are hoping that they will find that HRT will give women's bones some protection. We might find out the truth then again we might not. Estrogen replacement is a billion dollar industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi all, I'm loving this conversation and am learning a lot, thanks to so many people who've posted articles, definitions, etc. Here's my question: if folks with an autoimmune disease may receive some sort of protection from cancer because of the overzealous nature of our immune systems, what do we make of the link between endometriosis and cancer? Nobody scream--I'm not saying there's a link. The endometriosis association, a very intelligent, highly mobilized group of sufferers and physicians, has speculated that endom. puts women at increased risk for various types of cancer (with lots of research backing up their theories) and they also speculate that endom. is an autoimmune disease. However, I don't think the problem has that official classification, which might not mean much. Anyway, I'm loving the anti-cancer idea, but have always been concerned by some of the endom.association's theories, because they seem so sane, sound, and scary. B Re: (unknown) > > > > Hey , > > I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely > > preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember where > I > > read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll > likely > > come across it again. > > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi , Wow on your idea here. I say that because my mom had a total hysterectomy at age 36 because of endo, my older sister had one at age 33 (left 1 ovary), my younger sister has been told she has a 'mild case' of endo, and I was told I would probably have to have a hysterectomy before I was 35 because of this...yet I have had NO problems in this area and I'm almost 49. I started my periods at age 10, have had them every 28 days (and when pregnant for the first 3 months of all pregnancies) until last year when I had my THR dose changed. Now, I have believed that I have had GD since '86 after 3 major moves and the death of our youngest daughter, I was diagnosed in '96... But I have had severe heat intolerance since I was a very little girl, (age 2 were first symptoms), peeling nails my whole life on and off, pain in knee joints, an undiagnosed illness at age 8 where I started losing my hair, ran low grade temp, some swollen glands and all tests showed up negative (my sister reminded me of this recently)...so here is my 'what if' What if I have had undiagnosed GD since I was a child and that has kept me from getting the endom.? Though all of my pregnancies were complicated (no one else's in family were). Just some more what ifs to add to the equation. Take care, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Hi - I'm not sure how'd they figure that out. Endometriosis is the proliferation of endometrium outside of the uterus. It kind of just starts growing everywhere. I've never heard of any inflammation involved with it but who knows. I was kind of wondering the same thing about PCOS since they don't know what causes it. Do they say why they think endometriosis is an autoimmune disease? I wonder if the type of autoimmune disease you have makes a difference in stopping some forms of cancer while offering no protection or even increasing the risk for others. I'm completely speculating here. Take care, Re: (unknown) > > > > > > > Hey , > > > I was reading something the other day about autoimmune diseases likely > > > preventing cancer, like that's their genetic role. I don't remember > where > > I > > > read it, but I printed it and stuffed it in one of my folders so I'll > > likely > > > come across it again. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------- > > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not > intended to replace expert medical care. > > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Hi , of course you are right but most people think of stress as mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 > Hi , of course you are right but most people think of stress as > mental. Sure, I know. Mental impairment and Down Syndrome are also a mental things. However it's well known that in iodine or iron deficient areas, this happens… just because of those deficiencies!. (pure chemistry!). Yet Down Syndrome and mental impairment can also be caused by environmental pollution and by radiation (...more chemistry). A study by the Russian Academy of Sciences revealed that radiation from an uranium mine had caused mental impairment in 95% of the children of one town in Russia. Epidemiologists have detected a statistically significant increase in the birth of children with Down's Syndrome which is linked to radiation from the explosion of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor. The increase was dependent on rainfall in the period following the explosion. Excess Down's Syndrome births were recorded in parts of Germany, Scandinavia and the Lothian region of central Scotland nine months after the disaster. Lead in the environment is a threat, with the blood-lead level of one child in 10 in the UK high enough for intelligence to be affected. The intelligence of Inuit children in the Arctic is being damaged by PCBs which originate in the tropics and arrive in Canada within a week (this is chemistry too). (And yet Bush doesn't want to sign Kyoto protocol, as he promised in his campaign, just because oil companies have funded him, and they wouldn't like it. You all should write your local representatives to ask him to sign. Your children, and your grandchildren are at risk. This affects the whole world, and USA alone is responsible for the 25% of air pollution.) Calling stress " mental " sounds to me the same as when doctors say the " that's all in your head " thing. However they are right –in other sense perhaps they don't suspect-. I have over 200 articles with the last `discoveries' related to brain biochemistry, and I have not yet started to research brain. These are only articles I found by chance, while searching for other information, and saved them. The subject is very complicate, but fascinating. And, as I said in other occasions, it's my impression that solutions will come from this field –brain and body- biochemistry. Too many data point out in that direction. Things which are already known are impressive, and more will be in the next few years. Best regards A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Hey , About two years ago, AARDA began listing endometriosis as an autoimmune disorder. I haven't started researching autoimmune reproductive disorders for my environmental-autoimmune disease book yet--but I'm gathering lots of data. When I learn more, I'll let you know. My deadline is September 1 so it shouldn't be too far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Hi , In both my mom and my sister they had the Endometriosis inside of their uterus's as well. TTYL, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Exactly, ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Hi Jody- I wonder if it's because their endometrium was too thick? Or growing irregularly thick in parts of their uterus. Do you know? They define it as ectopic (outside of place). So maybe they mean that too. Take care, Re: (unknown) > Hi , > In both my mom and my sister they had the Endometriosis inside of their > uterus's as well. > TTYL, > Jody > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Hi , Both had the endometriosis both inside and outside. When my mom was diagnosed in 1959 the dr. called it 'chocolate drop cysts' then gave her the endom. name as well. I will talk with my sister on Easter Sunday when she is here, but can't verify anything with my mom anymore, nor can any of us access my moms medical records either here or in Indiana. TTYL, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 Hi Dawn, interesting about the beer since, if you do have gluten sensitivity, beer would bother you--from the barley in it. I'm not sure how the minerals are related except for iodine being an autoimmune thyroid disease trigger. You may have been leaching iodine from tissues out into your blood stream along with sodium chloride, which is in sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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