Guest guest Posted January 17, 2000 Report Share Posted January 17, 2000 " PLEASE " - What may I ask does this have to do with 12-step-free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2000 Report Share Posted January 18, 2000 I believe it is an " off topic " post placed here by an unfriendly troll-visitor. Just delete the crap and move on. > " PLEASE " - What may I ask does this have to do with 12-step-free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2000 Report Share Posted January 18, 2000 well call me a right wing waco or whatever, but I believe the greatest threat to this country is: the United States Federal Government..makes AA look like a bunch of school children...don't get me started on this subject... --- Pete Watts wrote: > > mike kraemer wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11794 > > I have to say i agree with alot of what is said > here.. > > It's not your fault Mike, you cant help being an > american > > P. > > > --- thefez22a@... wrote: > > > > > > American liberalism* > > > and fifth columns > > > > > > By Henry > > > No. 111, 8-14 March 1999 > > > > > > Many Americans are complaining about the > use > > > of US troops in places > > > like Kosovo, > > > Macedonia, Bosnia, Somalia, etc. What > these > > > critics have missed is > > > that it is a liberal > > > president who sent them there and did so > with > > > the support of > > > liberal-minded Congressmen > > > and Senators. This fact is vitally > important > > > because it gives us a > > > clue as to what is really > > > going on here. If we examine the 1972 > > > > McGovern presidential > > > campaign we find > > > that it provided the means by which those > who > > > are deeply hostile to > > > American values and > > > contemptuous of its history and traditions > > > were able to worm their way > > > into mainstream > > > politics. It is now their ideological > values > > > that dominate the > > > Democratic Party whose only > > > genuine resemblance to the party of Truman > and > > > Kennedy is in name > > > only. > > > > > > These are the people who supported Hanoi's > > > conquest of South Vietnam > > > and who broke a > > > solemn pledge to supply Saigon with the > means > > > to protect itself > > > against communist > > > aggression. These are same liberals whose > > > political treachery made Pol > > > Pot's murderous > > > regime possible. The same ones who opposed > the > > > Reagan military build > > > up that finally > > > broke the back of the Soviet Empire. And > did > > > they not also condemn > > > operation Desert > > > Storm? Didn't these very people oppose > every > > > initiative and action > > > that curtailed Soviet > > > expansion? Aren't these the people who > > > supported the Marxist > > > Sandinista's and still > > > rationalise Castro's regime? Yet they now > > > callously put at risk the > > > lives of American troops > > > in places that do not in anyway serve > American > > > interests. Why? > > > > > > Perhaps all of this will confuse some > readers. > > > Maybe they will put it > > > down to left-wing > > > inconsistency or hypocrisy. They would be > > > wrong because there is a > > > very definite pattern > > > here. Every policy these left-wing > Senators > > > and Congressmen (I will > > > now refer to liberals > > > as left-wing) strenuously opposed was > designed > > > to promote American > > > interests. Every > > > military policy they now support is not > only > > > unrelated to American > > > interests they actually > > > endanger them by unnecessarily making > enemies. > > > They broke the > > > agreement with Saigon > > > because it was in the interest of American > and > > > its allies to prevent a > > > communist victory. On > > > the other hand, they strongly support and > > > defend treaties that violate > > > US sovereignty and > > > endanger national security. > > > > > > Now we have it — no conspiracy but a deep > > > rooted hatred of America. To > > > them, > > > America is a racist, sexist, oppressive > and > > > exploitative capitalist > > > state. Therefore, because > > > it is unjust and aggressive, actions, > treaties > > > and agreements that > > > serve its interests must be > > > unjust by definition and therefore need to > be > > > resisted. Breaking the > > > agreement with Saigon > > > which put the South Vietnamese under > communist > > > tyranny was just > > > because the North was > > > a socialist state. This is what Tom Hayden > > > thought and it is what he > > > still thinks. And what > > > happened to Hayden? He got himself a > Senate > > > seat in California. Has he > > > changed his > > > views? Of course not. But Hayden is but > one of > > > many. There is Henry > > > Waxman of > > > Hollywood, Maxine Waters of California, > Rep. > > > DeFazio of Oregon, > > > Rep. > > > McKinney of Georgia, Rep. Major Owens of > New > > > York, Rep. Lane of > > > Illinois. > > > What these members of Congress have in > common > > > is their open connection > > > with the > > > Democratic Socialists of America. Former > > > Congressman Ron Dellums is > > > still asssociated > > > with the organisation).** These are the > people > > > people who would send > > > your sons and > > > daughters to a Bosnia or a Kosovo while > voting > > > against a missile > > > defence system. Why? > > > Because the former does not serve US > interests > > > while the latter does. > > > > > > Recent events have clearly demonstrated > that > > > the majority of > > > Democratic Senators and > > > members of Congress are to varying degrees > > > within the Waxman socialist > > > camp. This is the > > > real problem. Not conspiracy but ideology. > So > > > why don't Republicans > > > attack these > > > people's socialist views and expose them > to > > > the American public? > > > Because they fear the > > > media's smear machine. They know the > > > Democrats' media storm troopers > > > would > > > immediately leap into action with screams > of > > > " McCarthyism " , " reds > > > under the beds " , > > > " political persecution " , etc, because the > > > media itself is basically > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2000 Report Share Posted January 18, 2000 mike kraemer wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11845 > well call me a right wing waco or whatever, but I > believe the greatest threat to this country is: the > United States Federal Government..makes AA look like a > bunch of school children...don't get me started on > this subject... I'll get started on it. And I don't think I could be more on-topic than this. This piece was written by Ken, our moderator. It's about our liberal prez. http://216.32.180.250:80/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang= & lah=d297194bbf06edb9ed47 5f77a97b4592 & lat=948250873 & hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2econcentric%2e net%2f%7eKenr1%2fcommonsense%2f12steps%2farticles%2eshtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2000 Report Share Posted January 18, 2000 Well let's try it this way. " Clinton's Agenda " http://www.concentric.net/~Kenr1/commonsense/12steps/articles.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2000 Report Share Posted January 19, 2000 mike kraemer wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11845 > well call me a right wing waco or whatever A right-wing *Waco* Mike? Another interesting slip perhaps? P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2000 Report Share Posted January 19, 2000 So Bill C is in bed with Bill W. Well, he certainly has the womanizing of Bill W off pat... Also of interest on the site below is the article on Al Gore's beliefs. Ken conceded Gore's claim that the environment was healthier in the Dark Ages - but that depends on what terms one measures it. disease, famine and pestilience stalked the land in those days. Ironically some left-wingers claim environmentalism is a right-wing program to deny the benfits of industrialization to the developing world. Pete " tommy perkins " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11851 > Well let's try it this way. > > " Clinton's Agenda " > > http://www.concentric.net/~Kenr1/commonsense/12steps/articles.shtml > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2000 Report Share Posted January 21, 2000 HOLY SH*T!!! Mike, you're a reactionary. frankly, that's pretty scary that we could be rapping about this and that with you and i would not know this about you. it's scares me about these chat rooms. who the hell is on here? this indeed is one thing i hate about aa and all this other stuff that have this leave your politics at the door. that's impossible. i don't know. i just don't know....hello to all of you out there in ANTI AA land. I miss talking to ya'll. Nice to have some sanity once in a while. actually, aa is the only part of my life that promotes ridiculous superstition and mysticism...well, the part that i choose to associate with...at times. take care, kiki mike kraemer wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11845 > well call me a right wing waco or whatever, but I > believe the greatest threat to this country is: the > United States Federal Government..makes AA look like a > bunch of school children...don't get me started on > this subject... > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > mike kraemer wrote: > > original > > > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11794 > > > I have to say i agree with alot of what is said > > here.. > > > > It's not your fault Mike, you cant help being an > > american > > > > P. > > > > > --- thefez22a@... wrote: > > > > > > > > American liberalism* > > > > and fifth columns > > > > > > > > By Henry > > > > No. 111, 8-14 March 1999 > > > > > > > > Many Americans are complaining about the > > use > > > > of US troops in places > > > > like Kosovo, > > > > Macedonia, Bosnia, Somalia, etc. What > > these > > > > critics have missed is > > > > that it is a liberal > > > > president who sent them there and did so > > with > > > > the support of > > > > liberal-minded Congressmen > > > > and Senators. This fact is vitally > > important > > > > because it gives us a > > > > clue as to what is really > > > > going on here. If we examine the 1972 > > > > > > McGovern presidential > > > > campaign we find > > > > that it provided the means by which those > > who > > > > are deeply hostile to > > > > American values and > > > > contemptuous of its history and traditions > > > > were able to worm their way > > > > into mainstream > > > > politics. It is now their ideological > > values > > > > that dominate the > > > > Democratic Party whose only > > > > genuine resemblance to the party of Truman > > and > > > > Kennedy is in name > > > > only. > > > > > > > > These are the people who supported Hanoi's > > > > conquest of South Vietnam > > > > and who broke a > > > > solemn pledge to supply Saigon with the > > means > > > > to protect itself > > > > against communist > > > > aggression. These are same liberals whose > > > > political treachery made Pol > > > > Pot's murderous > > > > regime possible. The same ones who opposed > > the > > > > Reagan military build > > > > up that finally > > > > broke the back of the Soviet Empire. And > > did > > > > they not also condemn > > > > operation Desert > > > > Storm? Didn't these very people oppose > > every > > > > initiative and action > > > > that curtailed Soviet > > > > expansion? Aren't these the people who > > > > supported the Marxist > > > > Sandinista's and still > > > > rationalise Castro's regime? Yet they now > > > > callously put at risk the > > > > lives of American troops > > > > in places that do not in anyway serve > > American > > > > interests. Why? > > > > > > > > Perhaps all of this will confuse some > > readers. > > > > Maybe they will put it > > > > down to left-wing > > > > inconsistency or hypocrisy. They would be > > > > wrong because there is a > > > > very definite pattern > > > > here. Every policy these left-wing > > Senators > > > > and Congressmen (I will > > > > now refer to liberals > > > > as left-wing) strenuously opposed was > > designed > > > > to promote American > > > > interests. Every > > > > military policy they now support is not > > only > > > > unrelated to American > > > > interests they actually > > > > endanger them by unnecessarily making > > enemies. > > > > They broke the > > > > agreement with Saigon > > > > because it was in the interest of American > > and > > > > its allies to prevent a > > > > communist victory. On > > > > the other hand, they strongly support and > > > > defend treaties that violate > > > > US sovereignty and > > > > endanger national security. > > > > > > > > Now we have it — no conspiracy but a deep > > > > rooted hatred of America. To > > > > them, > > > > America is a racist, sexist, oppressive > > and > > > > exploitative capitalist > > > > state. Therefore, because > > > > it is unjust and aggressive, actions, > > treaties > > > > and agreements that > > > > serve its interests must be > > > > unjust by definition and therefore need to > > be > > > > resisted. Breaking the > > > > agreement with Saigon > > > > which put the South Vietnamese under > > communist > > > > tyranny was just > > > > because the North was > > > > a socialist state. This is what Tom Hayden > > > > thought and it is what he > > > > still thinks. And what > > > > happened to Hayden? He got himself a > > Senate > > > > seat in California. Has he > > > > changed his > > > > views? Of course not. But Hayden is but > > one of > > > > many. There is Henry > > > > Waxman of > > > > Hollywood, Maxine Waters of California, > > Rep. > > > > DeFazio of Oregon, > > > > Rep. > > > > McKinney of Georgia, Rep. Major Owens of > > New > > > > York, Rep. Lane of > > > > Illinois. > > > > What these members of Congress have in > > common > > > > is their open connection > > > > with the > > > > Democratic Socialists of America. Former > > > > Congressman Ron Dellums is > > > > still asssociated > > > > with the organisation).** These are the > > people > > > > people who would send > > > > your sons and > > > > daughters to a Bosnia or a Kosovo while > > voting > > > > against a missile > > > > defence system. Why? > > > > Because the former does not serve US > > interests > > > > while the latter does. > > > > > > > > Recent events have clearly demonstrated > > that > > > > the majority of > > > > Democratic Senators and > > > > members of Congress are to varying degrees > > > > within the Waxman socialist > > > > camp. This is the > > > > real problem. Not conspiracy but ideology. > > So > > > > why don't Republicans > > > > attack these > > > > people's socialist views and expose them > > to > > > > the American public? > > > > Because they fear the > > > > media's smear machine. They know the > > > > Democrats' media storm troopers > > > > would > > > > immediately leap into action with screams > > of > > > > " McCarthyism " , " reds > > > > under the beds " , > > > > " political persecution " , etc, because the > > > > media itself is basically > > > === message truncated === > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2000 Report Share Posted January 21, 2000 " kiki " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11946 > > HOLY SH*T!!! Mike, you're a reactionary. frankly, that's pretty scary > that we could be rapping about this and that with you and i would not > know this about you. One thing that mystifies me about the american far right's views is " How are they going to build Star Wars/SDI without a Federal Government to raise the money? " Maybe get Bill Gates to pay for it - but then he'd want it to run on Windows 2001 - shit, now that's what I'd call a millenium bug!.... P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2000 Report Share Posted January 21, 2000 Windows 2001? " Open the pod bay doors, HAL! " " pete watts " wrote: > One thing that mystifies me about the american far right's views is > " How are they going to build Star Wars/SDI without a Federal Government > to raise the money? " Maybe get Bill Gates to pay for it - but then > he'd want it to run on Windows 2001 - shit, now that's what I'd call a > millenium bug!.... > > P. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2000 Report Share Posted January 22, 2000 I think that most of the ideas that would be used for a star wars/sdi program would come from the private sector...and only federal governments start wars, not private companies (except for the arms industry, which I'm sure likes war)....I'm at work now so I have to keep this short......I must be the only Bill Gates fan in the country... --- Jim Hankins wrote: > > Windows 2001? " Open the pod bay doors, HAL! " > > > > " pete watts " wrote: > > One thing that mystifies me about the american far > right's views is > > " How are they going to build Star Wars/SDI without > a Federal > Government > > to raise the money? " Maybe get Bill Gates to pay > for it - but then > > he'd want it to run on Windows 2001 - shit, now > that's what I'd call a > > millenium bug!.... > > > > P. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > WEMedia.com empowers persons with disabilities to > build a strong and vibrant community. > http://click./1/682/1/_/4324/_/948521795/ > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > -- > /ChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2000 Report Share Posted January 22, 2000 At 22:08 21/01/00 -0800, you wrote: >One thing that mystifies me about the american far right's views is > " How are they going to build Star Wars/SDI without a Federal Government >to raise the money? " Maybe get Bill Gates to pay for it - but then >he'd want it to run on Windows 2001 - shit, now that's what I'd call a >millenium bug!.... > >P. , that is a wonderful thought. I can just see the control screen now; " Incoming missile detected, tracking... Incoming missile; multiple warheads detected, scanning, Incoming missile, warheads separated, tracking... This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. Please consult your user manual for error message documentation. Thanks you for using the Windows Space Defense System. " Joe B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 well I guess i am conservative fiscally and liberal on social issues...why do you have to call me names? reactionary, etc...who knows I could be wrong on things learning as I go... --- Pete Watts wrote: > > " kiki " wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11946 > > > > HOLY SH*T!!! Mike, you're a reactionary. frankly, > that's pretty scary > > that we could be rapping about this and that with > you and i would not > > know this about you. > > One thing that mystifies me about the american far > right's views is > " How are they going to build Star Wars/SDI without a > Federal Government > to raise the money? " Maybe get Bill Gates to pay > for it - but then > he'd want it to run on Windows 2001 - shit, now > that's what I'd call a > millenium bug!.... > > P. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > WEMedia.com empowers persons with disabilities to > build a strong and vibrant community. > http://click./1/682/1/_/4324/_/948521332/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- > /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 call me what you will; I am a fiscal conservative and a very social liberal...want tax cuts and drugs legalized at the same time....don't know how else to describe myself. --- kiki wrote: > > > HOLY SH*T!!! Mike, you're a reactionary. frankly, > that's pretty scary > that we could be rapping about this and that with > you and i would not > know this about you. it's scares me about these chat > rooms. who the > hell is on here? this indeed is one thing i hate > about aa and all this > other stuff that have this leave your politics at > the door. that's > impossible. i don't know. i just don't know....hello > to all of you out > there in ANTI AA land. I miss talking to ya'll. > Nice to have some sanity once in a while. actually, > aa is the only part > of my life that promotes ridiculous superstition and > mysticism...well, > the part that i choose to associate with...at times. > take care, kiki > > > mike kraemer wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11845 > > well call me a right wing waco or whatever, but I > > believe the greatest threat to this country is: > the > > United States Federal Government..makes AA look > like a > > bunch of school children...don't get me started on > > this subject... > > > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > > > mike kraemer wrote: > > > original > > > > > > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11794 > > > > I have to say i agree with alot of what is > said > > > here.. > > > > > > It's not your fault Mike, you cant help being an > > > american > > > > > > P. > > > > > > > --- thefez22a@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > American liberalism* > > > > > and fifth columns > > > > > > > > > > By Henry > > > > > No. 111, 8-14 March 1999 > > > > > > > > > > Many Americans are complaining about > the > > > use > > > > > of US troops in places > > > > > like Kosovo, > > > > > Macedonia, Bosnia, Somalia, etc. What > > > these > > > > > critics have missed is > > > > > that it is a liberal > > > > > president who sent them there and did > so > > > with > > > > > the support of > > > > > liberal-minded Congressmen > > > > > and Senators. This fact is vitally > > > important > > > > > because it gives us a > > > > > clue as to what is really > > > > > going on here. If we examine the 1972 > > > > > > > > McGovern presidential > > > > > campaign we find > > > > > that it provided the means by which > those > > > who > > > > > are deeply hostile to > > > > > American values and > > > > > contemptuous of its history and > traditions > > > > > were able to worm their way > > > > > into mainstream > > > > > politics. It is now their ideological > > > values > > > > > that dominate the > > > > > Democratic Party whose only > > > > > genuine resemblance to the party of > Truman > > > and > > > > > Kennedy is in name > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > These are the people who supported > Hanoi's > > > > > conquest of South Vietnam > > > > > and who broke a > > > > > solemn pledge to supply Saigon with > the > > > means > > > > > to protect itself > > > > > against communist > > > > > aggression. These are same liberals > whose > > > > > political treachery made Pol > > > > > Pot's murderous > > > > > regime possible. The same ones who > opposed > > > the > > > > > Reagan military build > > > > > up that finally > > > > > broke the back of the Soviet Empire. > And > > > did > > > > > they not also condemn > > > > > operation Desert > > > > > Storm? Didn't these very people oppose > > > every > > > > > initiative and action > > > > > that curtailed Soviet > > > > > expansion? Aren't these the people who > > > > > supported the Marxist > > > > > Sandinista's and still > > > > > rationalise Castro's regime? Yet they > now > > > > > callously put at risk the > > > > > lives of American troops > > > > > in places that do not in anyway serve > > > American > > > > > interests. Why? > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps all of this will confuse some > > > readers. > > > > > Maybe they will put it > > > > > down to left-wing > > > > > inconsistency or hypocrisy. They would > be > > > > > wrong because there is a > > > > > very definite pattern > > > > > here. Every policy these left-wing > > > Senators > > > > > and Congressmen (I will > > > > > now refer to liberals > > > > > as left-wing) strenuously opposed was > > > designed > > > > > to promote American > > > > > interests. Every > > > > > military policy they now support is > not > > > only > > > > > unrelated to American > > > > > interests they actually > > > > > endanger them by unnecessarily making > > > enemies. > > > > > They broke the > > > > > agreement with Saigon > > > > > because it was in the interest of > American > > > and > > > > > its allies to prevent a > > > > > communist victory. On > > > > > the other hand, they strongly support > and > > > > > defend treaties that violate > > > > > US sovereignty and > > > > > endanger national security. > > > > > > > > > > Now we have it — no conspiracy but a > deep > > > > > rooted hatred of America. To > > > > > them, > > > > > America is a racist, sexist, > oppressive > > > and > > > > > exploitative capitalist > > > > > state. Therefore, because > > > > > it is unjust and aggressive, actions, > > > treaties > > > > > and agreements that > > > > > serve its interests must be > > > > > unjust by definition and therefore > need to > > > be > > > > > resisted. Breaking the > > > > > agreement with Saigon > > > > > which put the South Vietnamese under > > > communist > > > > > tyranny was just > > > > > because the North was > > > > > a socialist state. This is what Tom > Hayden > > > > > thought and it is what he > > > > > still thinks. And what > > > > > happened to Hayden? He got himself a > > > Senate > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 mike kraemer wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12004 > well I guess i am conservative fiscally and liberal on > social issues... It's called Libertarian; you mentioned Harry Browne on one of your early posts. Actually, Pete, both the Democrats and the Republicans* are in bed with the Tharapeutic State, which includes XA. The Libertarian Party is the only party that advocates the separation of state and medicine. As the third largest party in the U.S. they were denied participation in the presidential campaign debates by the " private " media. The media is also in bed with the Therapeutic State. The U.S. government is the most corrupt and dangerous institution on the planet. *When I was forced to go to AA meetings Reagan was president and Dole was Secretary of Transpotation, under which the Coast Guard falls. Dole raped my soul. Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 guess I resented being call a reactionary...I say my honest opionion and I get called names..i hate that.. --- Tommy Perkins wrote: > > mike kraemer wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12004 > > well I guess i am conservative fiscally and > liberal on > > social issues... > > It's called Libertarian; you mentioned Harry Browne > on one of your > early posts. Actually, Pete, both the Democrats and > the Republicans* > are in bed with the Tharapeutic State, which > includes XA. The > Libertarian Party is the only party that advocates > the separation of > state and medicine. As the third largest party in > the U.S. they were > denied participation in the presidential campaign > debates by the > " private " media. The media is also in bed with the > Therapeutic State. > The U.S. government is the most corrupt and > dangerous institution on > the planet. > > *When I was forced to go to AA meetings Reagan was > president and > Dole was Secretary of Transpotation, under > which the Coast > Guard falls. > > Dole raped my soul. > > Tommy > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files > and, access them from > anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here > for a chance to win a > digital camera. > http://click./1/337/1/_/4324/_/948839862/ > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document > Vault > -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 And BTW, I don't think Tipper Gore's relationship with the Therapeutic State is at all a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 At 14:19 25/01/00 -0800, you wrote: >call me what you will; I am a fiscal conservative and >a very social liberal...want tax cuts and drugs >legalized at the same time....don't know how else to >describe myself. Hmm. That could work- you take the cost of the war on drugs and turn it into tax cuts. Joe B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 I would agree that the American government isn't ideal, but before I point fingers at it, I would point fingers at China, North Korea, the governments of the former socialist soviet republics and various mideastern states. Let's keep our perspective here. " tommy perkins " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12007 > mike kraemer wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=120 04 > > well I guess i am conservative fiscally and liberal on > > social issues... > > It's called Libertarian; you mentioned Harry Browne on one of your > early posts. Actually, Pete, both the Democrats and the Republicans* > are in bed with the Tharapeutic State, which includes XA. The > Libertarian Party is the only party that advocates the separation of > state and medicine. As the third largest party in the U.S. they were > denied participation in the presidential campaign debates by the > " private " media. The media is also in bed with the Therapeutic State. > The U.S. government is the most corrupt and dangerous institution on > the planet. > > *When I was forced to go to AA meetings Reagan was president and > Dole was Secretary of Transpotation, under which the Coast > Guard falls. > > Dole raped my soul. > > Tommy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2000 Report Share Posted January 25, 2000 Don't worry Mike. You're a libertarian and we're all libertines. You fit in just fine. Libertarianism: All the freedom money can buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2000 Report Share Posted January 26, 2000 Yes that what I am, I couldn't remember the word.... yes I love libertarian writers, its the only thing that makes sense to me... --- Jim Hankins wrote: > > Don't worry Mike. You're a libertarian and we're all > libertines. You > fit in just fine. > > Libertarianism: All the freedom money can buy. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details. > http://click./1/766/1/_/4324/_/948862030/ > > -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the > group calendar! > -- > /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2000 Report Share Posted January 27, 2000 > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: American liberalism >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:43:35 -0800 > > >I would agree that the American government isn't ideal, but before I >point fingers at it, I would point fingers at China, North Korea, the >governments of the former socialist soviet republics and various >mideastern states. Let's keep our perspective here. > Kayleigh, I know that the governments of the countries you've named are horribly oppressive, and nuclear weapons in such hands is a serious danger. I also know that depending on one's situation, the U.S. can be a wonderful place to live and work and raise a family. However, getting caught in the web of the Therapeutic State is a horrible hell to live through. Believe me, to hear Carol's story wrings my heart out. Here is a lady who was experiencing some problems, and then when the " helping professions " got involved, the real horror story began. The U.S. is powerful and influential, and is the chief pusher of the hell-hole known as the Therapeutic State. Perhaps you believe that ADD is a mental illness and Ritalin is a curing medicine, and that the mass drugging of school children by government is a good thing. If so then I will not try to convince you otherwise. Perhaps you believe that depression is a disease and we should be taxed for the propagation of this idea. If so then I will not try to convince you otherwise. As far as keeping things in perspective, and keeping to the theme of this list, the U.S. government is the chief soul raper on the planet. In late 1991 I first read " AA Abuse " by Peele/Brodsky. The opening paragraphs haunted me and still do. I am curious to know to what extent other governments force people into XA, if I might hear from some of the non-U.S. citizens on the list. http://www.peele.net/lib/aaabuse.html I don't think that my making such a statement detracts from my patriotism. My patriotism is to the Constitution not to power politics. I fought my heart out without a lawyer in the federal courts to try to make sure no other American citizen would ever be forced into AA. And to add insult to injury, now I hear from Rita and Bob that even after their hard fought victories, the soul rapers in New York are still at it. If you believe the quote below by Seth Farber, then you will understand what I am trying to say. If you don't you may not. I believe it. Tommy " The mental health system is a well-oiled machine that destroys the hopes and dreams of millions of vulnerable souls, wreaks havoc on their bodies, and inducts them into becoming chronic mental patients. " Dr. Seth Farber " Madness, Heresy, and the Rumor of Angels: The Revolt Against the Mental Health System " http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0968391303/qid%3D920246930/002-1484376-43\ 89827 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2000 Report Share Posted January 27, 2000 well I originally said that i think that the greatest threat to the United States is the United States federal government, and I still believe this is true, and I'm pretty close to accepting it as a statement of fact...... --- Kayleigh S wrote: > > I would agree that the American government isn't > ideal, but before I > point fingers at it, I would point fingers at China, > North Korea, the > governments of the former socialist soviet republics > and various > mideastern states. Let's keep our perspective here. > > " tommy perkins " wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12007 > > mike kraemer wrote: > > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=120 > 04 > > > well I guess i am conservative fiscally and > liberal on > > > social issues... > > > > It's called Libertarian; you mentioned Harry > Browne on one of your > > early posts. Actually, Pete, both the Democrats > and the Republicans* > > are in bed with the Tharapeutic State, which > includes XA. The > > Libertarian Party is the only party that advocates > the separation of > > state and medicine. As the third largest party in > the U.S. they were > > denied participation in the presidential campaign > debates by the > > " private " media. The media is also in bed with > the Therapeutic > State. > > The U.S. government is the most corrupt and > dangerous institution on > > the planet. > > > > *When I was forced to go to AA meetings Reagan was > president and > > Dole was Secretary of Transpotation, > under which the Coast > > Guard falls. > > > > Dole raped my soul. > > > > Tommy > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files > and, access them from > anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here > for a chance to win a > digital camera. > http://click./1/337/1/_/4324/_/948858232/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- > /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2000 Report Share Posted January 27, 2000 well I originally said that i think that the greatest threat to the United States is the United States federal government, and I still believe this is true, and I'm pretty close to accepting it as a statement of fact...... --- Kayleigh S wrote: > > I would agree that the American government isn't > ideal, but before I > point fingers at it, I would point fingers at China, > North Korea, the > governments of the former socialist soviet republics > and various > mideastern states. Let's keep our perspective here. > > " tommy perkins " wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12007 > > mike kraemer wrote: > > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=120 > 04 > > > well I guess i am conservative fiscally and > liberal on > > > social issues... > > > > It's called Libertarian; you mentioned Harry > Browne on one of your > > early posts. Actually, Pete, both the Democrats > and the Republicans* > > are in bed with the Tharapeutic State, which > includes XA. The > > Libertarian Party is the only party that advocates > the separation of > > state and medicine. As the third largest party in > the U.S. they were > > denied participation in the presidential campaign > debates by the > > " private " media. The media is also in bed with > the Therapeutic > State. > > The U.S. government is the most corrupt and > dangerous institution on > > the planet. > > > > *When I was forced to go to AA meetings Reagan was > president and > > Dole was Secretary of Transpotation, > under which the Coast > > Guard falls. > > > > Dole raped my soul. > > > > Tommy > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files > and, access them from > anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here > for a chance to win a > digital camera. > http://click./1/337/1/_/4324/_/948858232/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- > /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2000 Report Share Posted January 27, 2000 Who says I endorse wars waged on foreign soil? I detest war! (sigh) I will try to answer you in more detail here, although I'm just scratching the surface. If nothing else, Kiki, I bet this is a more interesting conversation than talking to someone who tries to get you to say the " Third Step Prayer " everyday. In no particular order: I believe for the most part, governments is a parasite that produces little if nothing, and only consumes. I believe that drugs should be legalized I believe that prostitution and gambling should be decriminalized, and all other so called " vice " crimes. I believe that " consensual " crimes " between adults should also be decriminalized. (well some of these things are more on the state level) I believe the ban on human cloning should be lifted. I believe that abortion should be legal, but unsubsidized by the federal government. I believe that all payments from the federal government to individuals ,corporations, states and foreign countries should end, with a couple of exceptions. I believe that this country should never be involved in the current " peacekeeping " military involvements overseas...Bosnia, Haiti, Iran, Iraq, etc, etc, etc I believe that the tax burden we as individuals bear (which is at least 50%) is criminal, and close to causing a revolution, or at least forcing people to seek employment in the " Underground " economy. I believe people should be given a massive tax cut, and I mean massive, maybe pay 15 of total income or less, including hidden taxes. I believe the FDA, EPA, the Dept. of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, the wretched IRS, and probably about a dozen other bogus and destructive agencies should be completely disbanded. Perhaps even the Federal reserve. I could care less if gay people are allowed to get married. More power to 'em. In short, the Federal Government should stop trying to police everybody and everything (like for instance, Vietnam in the past? Hello?)..the cost of doing this is very expensive and ineffective. go ahead take me to task if you want... --- kiki wrote: > > mike, > > i don't mean to call you names, dude. we all must > label things. the > trick is to accurately label them. i feel better > that you're socially > liberal whatever you mean by that. > listen, i realize the deal with all this is that we > can hang out and > rap no matter who we are or what our views are, etc. > hey, you'd > probably disagree with my views on things, but, man, > that stuff that > got put out there was..well..scary. i am heartened > that you are still > trying to figure things out. we are all of us trying > to understand how > and why the world is the way it is and at least you > don't think all of > this is " God's will " . You understand that there are > economic forces at > work creating the mire we exist in. however, i would > challenge you to > reconcile your socially liberal ideas with your > fiscally conservative > ideas. > yeah, we all want to be free, but c'mon, do you > really think the > vietnam war was fought so you and me could be free? > then what the hell > do they mean by free cause i don't want no part of > it. oh, and i guess > vietnamese people don't have a whole lot to say on > the freedom > question. > really, what is the point of coming out of the > caves if this is the > best humanity could do. i think the problem with > alot of " free " > thinkers as you no doubt consider yourself to be > (don't get offended > please..especially after that stuff you forwarded, > geeze) is that you > really aint thinking freely at all. this whole 12 > step free site is > against indoctrination of indivduals by aa. correct? > but, that stuff > you ran out sounded almost word for word like GI joe > or rambo or > whatever the f---. you want to do away with > government, yet you endorse > wars waged on foreign soil. make up you mind. and > what do you think > government is? do you think is some separate entity > apart from the > economic base and the social infrastructure? hmmm. > interesting. > whatever, man. we can talk and talk and talk. you've > actually helped me > alot and i appreciate it. ever listen to john > lenon's imagine? there is > actually a material basis for what he is saying. > mike, stretch your > mind. dream a little. we don't have to settle. kiki > > > > > > > mike kraemer wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12004 > > well I guess i am conservative fiscally and > liberal on > > social issues...why do you have to call me names? > > reactionary, etc...who knows I could be wrong on > > things learning as I go... > > > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > > > " kiki " wrote: > > > original > > > > > > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11946 > > > > > > > > HOLY SH*T!!! Mike, you're a reactionary. > frankly, > > > that's pretty scary > > > > that we could be rapping about this and that > with > > > you and i would not > > > > know this about you. > > > > > > One thing that mystifies me about the american > far > > > right's views is > > > " How are they going to build Star Wars/SDI > without a > > > Federal Government > > > to raise the money? " Maybe get Bill Gates to > pay > > > for it - but then > > > he'd want it to run on Windows 2001 - shit, now > > > that's what I'd call a > > > millenium bug!.... > > > > > > P. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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