Re: tell me what you think

December 28, 1999

I love it, Dave!!

My only advice is a free SpellCheck: the spelling you want is

" principle " , not " principal " .

~Rita

---------------------------

" dave " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10802

> suggestions or additions to this are welcome. if its solid in its

> argument, i intend to post it on a regular basis on

> Alt.recovery.from-12-steps. this is an attempt at satire based on the

> messages of the big book and AA meetings.

>

> Dave

>

> I want to open a recovery group, and proclaim it is openly spiritual,

> and that it's a Program which has no conflict of ideology between

> recovery and religions of any domination's in a program for living

that

> WORKS IF YOU WORK iT! I will welcome people of all spirtual

> backgrounds, even atheists and agnostics.

>

> In this program we will have suggestions based on The Steps We Took

> that there is no higher power or God, that we all are really self

> reliant and we only recovered from our habit once we took personal

> responsibility for our decisions rather than looked for a HP to guide

> us.

> Anyone who thinks otherwise is not being honest and will fail to

remain

> sober. Mixed in will be platitudes on how great it is to be sober and

> how we failed when did otherwise.

>

> In the meetings they will be peppered with slogans to reinforce the

> Principals of the Program.

> " Let go of God, take Responsibility! "

> Once again these are all merely suggestions they can take or discard.

> but I will also remind them that " half measure availed us nothing " .

>

> At end of each meeting we get in a circle, grasp hands with all the

> conviction of our mutual recovery and say, " There is no God to pray

> towards for guidance, im ok on my own " . We would " suggest " they should

> repeat that not only any time they feel like they want to abuse a

> substance, but to deal with any of life's circumstances.

>

> When I am asked why I am denouncing God and religion, I will reply

" its

> a spiritual program based on self empowerment, self respect, personal

> responsibility and growth " . You can believe in yourself any way you

> wish. And besides, I'm not saying don't believe in your God, just not

> in Higher Powers who have a will or destiny for you in mind. When they

> point out that we use the word God rather than Higher Power in our

> steps, I'll tell them to ignore that fact and think HP instead.

>

> To those who come to us and really want to live sober, but simply

cant

> ignore the possibility of a HP, ill suggest they " Imagine no HP, just

> for today " and that we take it one day at a time.

>

> Of those who cant see that and feel I am preaching atheism, I would

> simply state with an air of authority; " They aren't not willing or

> capable of being honest with themselves " or its a " sign of their

> disease talking " and that they will come back when they are ready. It

> Works If YOU Work It!

>

> Should we be surprised that the people who came to us with religious

> belief systems under the pretenses of it being a all encompassing

> spiritual program would feel betrayed and deceived?

>

> Should we be surprised that they say that our statement in defense

" You

> can believe in yourself any way you wish " is nothing more than double

> speak designed to deflect criticism? Should we be surprised that the

> people who are naturally agnostic or atheist would incorporate our

> beliefs more readily?

>

> When the various churches make a big deal of it that the courts send

> substance abusers our way or people tell us of True Believers who were

> healed of their habit by believing in God, we will give out the

> standard reply that " we have no opinion on outside issues " and " we are

> a spiritual program and share our personal strength, experience and

> hope " . Any ways they are merely " bashing " what they simply don't

> understand.

>

December 28, 1999

At 03:16 PM 12/28/99 -0800, Railroad Rita wrote:

>

> I love it, Dave!!

>

> My only advice is a free SpellCheck: the spelling you want is

> " principle " , not " principal " .

I saw that too, but Bill was the " First Principal " of AA, and

most every AA meeting I went to was run by at least one " principal " , so

maybe Dave got it right anyway. :-)

Of course, a spellchecker would say they're both right, and even a

grammar checker would see they are both nouns. I don't know how much

deeper grammer checkers go or what the state of the art is (such as

principle, abstract noun vs. principal, title of a person, and attempting

to check the usage in context), but the one that comes with Microsoft Word

is wrong about half the time, and that's an observation from me using it

very little (technical documentation at work).

Please allow me to undigress...

>

>~Rita

>

>---------------------------

>

> " dave " wrote:

>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10802

>> suggestions or additions to this are welcome. if its solid in its

>> argument, i intend to post it on a regular basis on

>> Alt.recovery.from-12-steps. this is an attempt at satire based on the

>> messages of the big book and AA meetings.

I haven't read arf12s in probably six months. I'm just not interested

in reading the Glenn-clone trolls who post there.

>>

>> Dave

>>

>> I want to open a recovery group, and proclaim it is openly spiritual,

>> and that it's a Program which has no conflict of ideology between

>> recovery and religions of any domination's in a program for living

>that

>> WORKS IF YOU WORK iT! I will welcome people of all spirtual

>> backgrounds, even atheists and agnostics.

>>

>> In this program we will have suggestions based on The Steps We Took

>> that there is no higher power or God, that we all are really self

>> reliant and we only recovered from our habit once we took personal

>> responsibility for our decisions rather than looked for a HP to guide

>> us.

>> Anyone who thinks otherwise is not being honest and will fail to

>remain

>> sober. Mixed in will be platitudes on how great it is to be sober and

>> how we failed when did otherwise.

Why not be accurate to the common usage of these words - if by 'sober'

you mean the group members are saying " we don't get drunk, though we may

drink alcohol occasionally " , but if you mean not drinking alcohol at all,

use the word 'abstinent'. The AA usage of 'sober' to mean abstinent from

alcohol has become even more ubiquitous than the usage of 'spirituality'

separate from religion.

But while you're starting a new program, you could redefine some other

words. Perhaps you should start with some universal 'good' words that mean

many things, but you can claim it to mean one good thing associated with

your new program, thusly: " I didn't know what love was before I joined The

Recovery Group. Now, through the help of The Recovery Group and my own

free will, I have learned to love those who have earned and who deserve

my love. "

But it seems I'm drifting slightly - you were talking about just making

a post of a message such as this, but I was thinking about expanding it

to a 'real program'. I suppose for just one of many examples on how to do

this, study (in addition to Bill ) what L. Ron Hubbard did.

>> When the various churches make a big deal of it that the courts send

>> substance abusers our way

The local courts will only send substance abusers to such a group when

higher courts give blanket rulings that they can't send people exclusively

to AA.

I don't see the churches complaining about this, OTOH meetings of

this type of group would never be allowed to be held in any Catholic or

protestant church of any denomination (at least this is the experience of

SOS). It's only because of the relative ultra-liberalism of UU congregations

that they let SOS groups meet there.

>> or people tell us of True Believers who were

>> healed of their habit by believing in God, we will give out the

>> standard reply that " we have no opinion on outside issues " and " we are

>> a spiritual program and share our personal strength, experience and

>> hope " . Any ways they are merely " bashing " what they simply don't

>> understand.

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

December 28, 1999

<< I likes it. How about some steps to go with it?

Jumbo posted the originals he picked up from an article from the classic

magazine (NOT a " zine " ) ANSWER ME! #1 (1991) by Jim Goad entitled " Twelve

Steps to Hell "

I've made so many changes its hard to tell from the original but the idea

came from what Jumbo originally posted.

1. We admitted that our addicted addictions councilors and the other 12 step

programs we tried were really screwing us up.

2. Came to know that since we gave them power over us, only we could take it

back.

3. Made a decision to follow our gut instincts, _as we understood them,_ and

that no ashtray, door knob, bed spread, or tree ever could.

4. Didn't bullshit ourselves, and more importantly didn't allow them to

bullshit us, about the many flaws we saw in the American recovery industry,

our addictions councilors, AA, Al-Anon, ACA, CA, CO-Anon, DA, DRA, EA, GA,

NA, Nar-Anon, MA, OA, RA, SA, SAA, SCA, S-Anon, S & L-Anon, SRA ............

(DID I MISS ANY?)

5. Having admitted their flaws to ourselves we saw it as a moral imperative

to share the word with our confused brethren in 12 step hell.

6. Accepted the proposition that to not argue with anyone who vehemently

disagreed with us would make us as screwed up as them.

7. Filled with self-respect and sanely righteous indignation we made it a

point to do nothing humbly.

8. Made a list of all persons who had harmed us, during treatment and

recovery, and gave it to our lawyers.

9. We resolved to use the money we saved, from not attending 90 in 90

meetings and buying 12 step literature, to lobby congress to stop the

insanity.

10. Even though it broke our hearts we resolved to continue to be ruthlessly

honest with the opposition even to the point of reminding them that their

addicted councilors, their recovery institutions and 12 step groups had a

vested interest in making sure they remained addicts.

11. Trusted no one who insisted we were powerless over anything because we

knew they had ulterior motives. But did take the time to add them to our

eighth step list.

12. Having assumed full responsibility for our lives, we weren't foolish

enough to give it away to anyone or anything. >>

I LIKE these Steps!!! NYES!

December 28, 1999

this is the first revision, including the correct usage of principles:)

ben, i pretty much share you feelings about usenet, but every once in

awhile i feel like jumping in. its been scary writing this, trying to

make insane logic seem reasonable. but all im doing is taking AA and

fliping it around 180 degrees to try to make some kind of point clear.

to whom im not sure, true belivers wouldnt see AA in this no matter how

i heavy handed write it.

i suggestions or additions to this are welcome. if its good, i intend

to post it on regular basis on Alt.recovery.from-12-steps. this is an

attempt at satire based on the messages of the big book and AA meetings.

Dave

I want to open a recovery group, and proclaim that it is openly

spiritual. It's a Program which has no conflict of ideology between

recovery and religions of any denomination's and is a Program for

Living that WORKS IF YOU WORK IT! It will welcome people of all

spiritual backgrounds, even atheists and agnostics.

In this program we will have suggestions based on The Steps We Took,

which begin with (1) The choice and power to be sober is OURS alone.

(2) There is no higher power or god (3) That we all are really self

reliant and only recovered from our habit once we took personal

responsibility for Our decisions rather than looking for god, supreme

beings, surrogate father figures, collective consciousness or

supernatural spirits to guide us.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is incapable of being honest with

themselve's and will fail to remain sober. Mixed in will be platitudes

on how great it is to be sober and how we suffered when we did

otherwise.

In the meetings newcomers will be peppered with slogans to reinforce

the Principles of the Program,

such as " LET GO OF god, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY! "

Once again these are all merely suggestions they can take or discard.

But we will also remind them that " half measures availed us nothing "

and " jails, institutions and death " await outside.

At end of each meeting we get in a circle, grasp hands with all the

conviction of our mutual recovery and say (as is simply our tradition

for closing), " There is no god to pray towards for guidance, I am ok on

my own " . We then shall " suggest " they should repeat that not only any

time they feel like they want to abuse a substance, but to deal with

any of life's circumstances.

When I am asked why I am denouncing god and religion, I will gently

reply " Its a spiritual Program for recovery based on self empowerment,

self respect, personal responsibility and growth " . You can believe in

yourself anyway you wish. And besides, I'm not saying don't believe in

your god, just not in Higher Powers who have a will or destiny for you

in mind. When they point out that we use the word god rather than

Higher Power in our steps, we shall tell them to ignore that fact and

think HP instead in order to not confuse them further.

To those who come to us and really want to live sober, but simply

refuse to acknowledge the unlikelihood of a HP, (even the absurd

notion that a HP may take ashtray form), suggest they take baby steps

and " Imagine no HP, just for today " and that we " take it one day at a

time " or " fake it to you make it! " . Besides, a Higher Power ashtray is

just insane. Only someone tying to deceive or believes you to be an

imbecile would propose such a thing. I can break the ash tray. <smashes

ashtray> See?

Some will always be incapable of seeing our logic and wrongly feel we

are preaching atheism. To these nay sayers we shall simply state with

the air of singular authority which we carry in these matters; " They

are not willing or capable of being honest with themselves " or " It's a

sign of their disease talking " and that " they will come back when they

are ready " . Keep coming back! It Works If YOU Work It!

Should we be surprised that the people who came to our Program with

religious belief systems under the pretenses of it being a all

encompassing spiritual program would feel betrayed and deceived?

Should we be surprised that they say that our statement in defense " You

can believe in Yourself any way You wish " is nothing more than insane

double speak designed to deflect criticism? Should we be surprised that

the people who are agnostic or atheist would incorporate our beliefs

more readily?

When the various churches make a big deal of it that the courts send

substance abusers our way or people tell us of True Believers who were

" healed " of their habit by believing in god, snake handling, or the

Pyschic Friends Network, we will give out the standard reply that " we

have no opinion on outside matters " and " It's a spiritual program and

we share our personal experience, strength and hope " . Any ways they

are merely emotionally over generalizing and " bashing " what they simply

can't understand. Ours is a spiritual path.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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December 29, 1999

quit sending me e mail

December 29, 1999

Good idea to add the steps. " Counselors " is the proper spelling.

Apple

" hector arroyo " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10813

> I likes it. How about some steps to go with it?

December 29, 1999

Apple:

You got me. Here's the correction.

Does anyone know if I missed any A's in the 4th step?

Also, I'm not terribly happy with the 7th step. Anyone got any ideas?

1. We admitted that our addicted addictions counselors and the other 12 step

programs we tried were really screwing us up.

2. Came to know that since we gave them power over us, only we could take it

back.

3. Made a decision to follow our gut instincts, as we understood them, and

that no ashtray, door knob, bed spread, or tree ever could.

4. Didn't bullshit ourselves, and more importantly didn't allow them to

bullshit us, about the many flaws we saw in the American recovery industry,

our addictions counselors, AA, Al-Anon, ACA, CA, CO-Anon, DA, DRA, EA, GA,

NA, Nar-Anon, MA, OA, RA, SA, SAA, SCA, S-Anon, S & L-Anon and SRA.

5. Having admitted their flaws to ourselves we saw it as a moral imperative

to share the word with our confused brethren in 12 step hell.

6. Accepted the proposition that to not argue with anyone who vehemently

disagreed with us would make us as screwed up as them.

7. Filled with self-respect and sanely righteous indignation we made it a

point to do nothing humbly.

8. Made a list of all persons who had harmed us, during treatment and

recovery, and gave it to our lawyers.

9. We resolved to use the money we saved, from not attending 90 in 90

meetings and buying 12 step literature, to lobby congress to stop the

insanity.

10. Even though it broke our hearts we resolved to continue to be ruthlessly

honest with the opposition even to the point of reminding them that their

addicted counselors, their recovery institutions and 12 step groups had a

vested interest in making sure they remained addicts.

11. Trusted no one who insisted we were powerless over anything because we

knew they had ulterior motives. But did take the time to add them to our

eighth step list.

12. Having assumed full responsibility for our lives, we weren't foolish

enough to give it away to anyone or anything.

Re: tell me what you think

Good idea to add the steps. " Counselors " is the proper spelling.

Apple

" hector arroyo " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10813

> I likes it. How about some steps to go with it?

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-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

December 30, 1999

7th step OK by me.

I would redo the acronyms list to read:

AA, Al-Anon, Ala-teen, Ala-tot, Ala-dog, ACOA, CoDA, Co-Anon, EA, GA,

NA, Nar-Anon, OA, SLA, SL-Anon

What are DA and DRA? How about RA? All the Anons are too funny.

Apple

4. Didn't bullshit ourselves, and more importantly didn't allow them to

> bullshit us, about the many flaws we saw in the American recovery

industry,

> our addictions counselors, AA, Al-Anon, ACA, CA, CO-Anon, DA, DRA,

EA, GA,

> NA, Nar-Anon, MA, OA, RA, SA, SAA, SCA, S-Anon, S & L-Anon and SRA.

December 30, 1999

I got a hoot out of seeing how many there were.

DA - Debtors Anonymous

DRA - Dual Recovery Anonymous

RA - Recoveries Anonymous

Re: tell me what you think

7th step OK by me.

I would redo the acronyms list to read:

AA, Al-Anon, Ala-teen, Ala-tot, Ala-dog, ACOA, CoDA, Co-Anon, EA, GA,

NA, Nar-Anon, OA, SLA, SL-Anon

What are DA and DRA? How about RA? All the Anons are too funny.

Apple

4. Didn't bullshit ourselves, and more importantly didn't allow them to

> bullshit us, about the many flaws we saw in the American recovery

industry,

> our addictions counselors, AA, Al-Anon, ACA, CA, CO-Anon, DA, DRA,

EA, GA,

> NA, Nar-Anon, MA, OA, RA, SA, SAA, SCA, S-Anon, S & L-Anon and SRA.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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December 30, 1999

At 06:44 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Arroyo wrote:

>I got a hoot out of seeing how many there were.

>

>DA - Debtors Anonymous

>DRA - Dual Recovery Anonymous

>RA - Recoveries Anonymous

I recall hearing that there were over 150 groups that had received

permission from AA World Services to use/adapt the 12 steps foe whatever

'program' they were starting. This was maybe 10 years ago, so the Loony

List could have grown substantially. If you're trying to be comprehensive

in this list, I'd say just give the most popular dozen or so groups.

I think for shits and grins you should toss in the three-letter

sequence " KMA " as in " kiss my ass " . :=)

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

December 30, 1999

Thanx

The idea of KMA is funny but when I start to think about the effectiveness

of the steps, from the stand point of someone who is ignorant of 12 step

hell, wouldn't it be more effective to list all 150 (Current number) to

illustrate how ridiculous it all is.

On second thought. What the hell I'm all for compromise to today. Lets list

em all and include KMA for shits and giggles.

Re: tell me what you think

At 06:44 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Arroyo wrote:

>I got a hoot out of seeing how many there were.

I recall hearing that there were over 150 groups that had received

permission from AA World Services to use/adapt the 12 steps foe whatever

'program' they were starting. This was maybe 10 years ago, so the Loony

List could have grown substantially. If you're trying to be comprehensive

in this list, I'd say just give the most popular dozen or so groups.

I think for shits and grins you should toss in the three-letter

sequence " KMA " as in " kiss my ass " . :=)

December 30, 1999

is there a group for sex addicts?

--- Arroyo wrote:

>

> Thanx

>

> The idea of KMA is funny but when I start to think

> about the effectiveness

> of the steps, from the stand point of someone who is

> ignorant of 12 step

> hell, wouldn't it be more effective to list all 150

> (Current number) to

> illustrate how ridiculous it all is.

>

> On second thought. What the hell I'm all for

> compromise to today. Lets list

> em all and include KMA for shits and giggles.

>

> Re: tell me what you think

>

> At 06:44 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Arroyo wrote:

> >I got a hoot out of seeing how many there were.

>

> I recall hearing that there were over 150 groups

> that had received

> permission from AA World Services to use/adapt the

> 12 steps foe whatever

> 'program' they were starting. This was maybe 10

> years ago, so the Loony

> List could have grown substantially. If you're

> trying to be comprehensive

> in this list, I'd say just give the most popular

> dozen or so groups.

> I think for shits and grins you should toss in

> the three-letter

> sequence " KMA " as in " kiss my ass " . :=)

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Doing everything you can to save for college? Are

> you sure?

> With Scholars Choice invest up to $150,000 per

> child. Tax deferred.

> From Salomon Barney

> http://click./1/531/1/_/4324/_/946579255

>

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> --

>

/VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

__________________________________________________

December 30, 1999

At 04:11 PM 12/30/99 -0800, Mike May wrote:

>Yes there is a group for sex addicts. SAA " original eh "

>I saw a site somewhere that lists all 150, I'll try and find it again for

you.

>Mike

>At 10:55 AM 12/30/1999 -0800, you wrote:

>>is there a group for sex addicts?

There's Sex Addicts Anonymous, and also SLAA, Sex and Love Addicts

Anonymous. There may be more " sex addiction " related 12-step groups,

but I recall reading about those two on the Fidonet Recovery echo,

eight or ten years ago. One (I don't remember which) is 'reasonable' in

comparison to most 12-step programs - another is openly Christ-based,

and their definition of " addictive sexual behavior " is anything other

than intercourse between a married couple. And yes, that means they

consider masturbation to be " addictive " for " sex addicts " .

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

December 30, 1999

Yes there is , it's called SLAA. (sex & love addicts

anonymous). The thing is that most people who have a serious sex

addiction aren't in SLAA, but in AA & NA waiting for the next newcomer

to arrive. You see, people only seek help for an addiction problem

when something BAD happens to them. (you don't see Gambling addicts who

are on winning streaks walk into Gamblers Anonymous!) As long as the

sex addict can meet his/her needs, it's not a problem (to them).

Apple

michael kraemer wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10864

> is there a group for sex addicts?

>

> >

December 30, 1999

Yes there is a group for sex addicts. SAA " original eh "

I saw a site somewhere that lists all 150, I'll try and find it again for you.

Mike

At 10:55 AM 12/30/1999 -0800, you wrote:

>is there a group for sex addicts?

>

>--- Arroyo wrote:

>>

>> Thanx

>>

>> The idea of KMA is funny but when I start to think

>> about the effectiveness

>> of the steps, from the stand point of someone who is

>> ignorant of 12 step

>> hell, wouldn't it be more effective to list all 150

>> (Current number) to

>> illustrate how ridiculous it all is.

>>

>> On second thought. What the hell I'm all for

>> compromise to today. Lets list

>> em all and include KMA for shits and giggles.

>>

>> Re: tell me what you think

>>

>> At 06:44 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Arroyo wrote:

>> >I got a hoot out of seeing how many there were.

>>

>> I recall hearing that there were over 150 groups

>> that had received

>> permission from AA World Services to use/adapt the

>> 12 steps foe whatever

>> 'program' they were starting. This was maybe 10

>> years ago, so the Loony

>> List could have grown substantially. If you're

>> trying to be comprehensive

>> in this list, I'd say just give the most popular

>> dozen or so groups.

>> I think for shits and grins you should toss in

>> the three-letter

>> sequence " KMA " as in " kiss my ass " . :=)

>>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Doing everything you can to save for college? Are

>> you sure?

>> With Scholars Choice invest up to $150,000 per

>> child. Tax deferred.

>> From Salomon Barney

>> http://click./1/531/1/_/4324/_/946579255

>>

>> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

>> --

>>

>/VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>>

>

>__________________________________________________

>

December 30, 1999

Hi everyone,

I didn't find the site with all 150 yet, bet here are a few I did find so

far.

Adult Children Anonymous/ACoA

Al-Anon/Alateen Home Page - Official Al-Anon Web Site

Al-Anon - Alateen - Unofficial site

Alcoholics Victorious (Christian)

A.R.T.S. Anonymous

Calix Society (Catholic)

Cancer Anonymous

Chemically Dependent Anonymous

Christians in Recovery

Christian Recovery Connection - Alcoholics Victorious

Co-Anon Family Groups

Christian Survivors of Sexual Abuse

Cocaine Anonymous

Co-Dependents Anonymous Home Page

Codependents of Sexual Addiction

Crystal Meth Anonymous

Debtors Anonymous

Dual Recovery Anonymous

Emotions Anonymous

Gamblers Anonymous

Incest Survivors

Jews in Recovery from Alcholism and Drug Abuse

Marijuana Anonymous

Moderation Management

Crystal Meth Anonymous

Nar-Anon Family Groups

Narcotics Anonymous

Nicotine Anonymous

Obsessive Compulsive Anonymous

Overeaters Anonymous

Overcomers Outreach (Christian)

Panic-Anxiety Home Page

Partners and Friends of Incest Survivors Anonymous

Recovering Couples Anonymous

Rape and Sexual Assault - Mailing Lists

Rational Recovery

Recovery, Inc.

Relationship Anonymous

S-Anon International Family Groups

Sexaholics Anonymous

Sex Addicts Anonymous

Sexual Compulsives Anonymous

Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous

Sexual Recovery Anonymous

Secular Organizations for Sobriety

S.M.A.R.T. Recovery

Suicide Awareness

Trauma Anonymous (PTSD)

United Methodists in Recovery

Women For Sobriety

Workaholics Anonymous

Youth for Environmental Sanity

HESHE anonymous

I tried to start procrastonators anonymous a few years back, but no one

showed. I also hear there is an Anonymous Anonymous, but they value

their ananymity so much that no one can find them.

Mike

At 04:34 PM 12/30/1999 -0500, you wrote:

>At 04:11 PM 12/30/99 -0800, Mike May wrote:

>>Yes there is a group for sex addicts. SAA " original eh "

>>I saw a site somewhere that lists all 150, I'll try and find it again for

>you.

>>Mike

>>At 10:55 AM 12/30/1999 -0800, you wrote:

>>>is there a group for sex addicts?

>

> There's Sex Addicts Anonymous, and also SLAA, Sex and Love Addicts

>Anonymous. There may be more " sex addiction " related 12-step groups,

>but I recall reading about those two on the Fidonet Recovery echo,

>eight or ten years ago. One (I don't remember which) is 'reasonable' in

>comparison to most 12-step programs - another is openly Christ-based,

>and their definition of " addictive sexual behavior " is anything other

>than intercourse between a married couple. And yes, that means they

>consider masturbation to be " addictive " for " sex addicts " .

>

>-----

>http://listen.to/benbradley

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>GET $100 IN COUPONS FOR TRYING GATOR!

>Grab the Gator! Free software does all the typing for you!

>Gator fills in forms and remembers passwords with NO TYPING at

>over 100,000 web sites!

>http://click./1/341/1/_/4324/_/946590334

>

>-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

>-- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

December 30, 1999

mike may wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10865

> Yes there is a group for sex addicts. SAA " original eh "

There's also SLAA (Sex & Love) and SA (Sexaholics). I think SA is for

flashers, peepers and their ilk.

December 31, 1999

mike may wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10865

> Yes there is a group for sex addicts. SAA " original eh "

>

> Mike

-------------------------

Our own Pete Watts has told us a lot about the two " sex addicts "

12-step groups. They actually use ludicrous terminology like " sexual

sobriety " and have rigidly defined (and very arbitrary) definitions of

" acceptable " sexuality.

~Rita

> At 10:55 AM 12/30/1999 -0800, you wrote:

> >is there a group for sex addicts?

> >

December 31, 1999

This appears to be a list of recovery groups in general, not

limited to 12-step. (Notice SMART, WFS, and some standard-Christian

groups are listed. Also, " Jews in Recovery " [JACS] is not a recovery

meeting program, it's mostly a website of Jewish apologists for AA --

" try to stay serene when others say Christian prayers such as the

" Lord's Prayer " and when they say things that might be considered

insensitive to Jews " --)

I don't remember where I saw the list of all the 12-step clone

groups, but I remember being particularly startled by Diabetics

Anonymous -- does confessing " moral defects " to a doorknob alleviate

diabetes? Do diabetics want to do this?? -- and Phobics Anonymous (How

would someone with agoraphobia get out to a meeting? and if they did,

wouldn't that be a sign they're no longer phobic?).

~Rita

---------------------------

mike may wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10868

> Hi everyone,

> I didn't find the site with all 150 yet, bet here are a few I did

find so

> far.

> Adult Children Anonymous/ACoA

> Al-Anon/Alateen Home Page - Official Al-Anon Web Site

> Al-Anon - Alateen - Unofficial site

> Alcoholics Victorious (Christian)

> A.R.T.S. Anonymous

> Calix Society (Catholic)

> Cancer Anonymous

> Chemically Dependent Anonymous

> Christians in Recovery

> Christian Recovery Connection - Alcoholics Victorious

> Co-Anon Family Groups

> Christian Survivors of Sexual Abuse

> Cocaine Anonymous

> Co-Dependents Anonymous Home Page

> Codependents of Sexual Addiction

> Crystal Meth Anonymous

> Debtors Anonymous

> Dual Recovery Anonymous

> Emotions Anonymous

> Gamblers Anonymous

> Incest Survivors

> Jews in Recovery from Alcholism and Drug Abuse

> Marijuana Anonymous

> Moderation Management

> Crystal Meth Anonymous

> Nar-Anon Family Groups

> Narcotics Anonymous

> Nicotine Anonymous

> Obsessive Compulsive Anonymous

> Overeaters Anonymous

> Overcomers Outreach (Christian)

> Panic-Anxiety Home Page

> Partners and Friends of Incest Survivors Anonymous

> Recovering Couples Anonymous

> Rape and Sexual Assault - Mailing Lists

> Rational Recovery

> Recovery, Inc.

> Relationship Anonymous

> S-Anon International Family Groups

> Sexaholics Anonymous

> Sex Addicts Anonymous

> Sexual Compulsives Anonymous

> Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous

> Sexual Recovery Anonymous

> Secular Organizations for Sobriety

> S.M.A.R.T. Recovery

> Suicide Awareness

> Trauma Anonymous (PTSD)

> United Methodists in Recovery

> Women For Sobriety

> Workaholics Anonymous

> Youth for Environmental Sanity

> HESHE anonymous

> I tried to start procrastonators anonymous a few years back, but no

one

> showed. I also hear there is an Anonymous Anonymous, but they value

> their ananymity so much that no one can find them.

> Mike

>

December 31, 1999

This appears to be a list of recovery groups in general, not

limited to 12-step. (Notice SMART, WFS, and some standard-Christian

groups are listed. Also, " Jews in Recovery " [JACS] is not a recovery

meeting program, it's mostly a website of Jewish apologists for AA --

" try to stay serene when others say Christian prayers such as the

" Lord's Prayer " and when they say things that might be considered

insensitive to Jews " --)

I don't remember where I saw the list of all the 12-step clone

groups, but I remember being particularly startled by Diabetics

Anonymous -- does confessing " moral defects " to a doorknob alleviate

diabetes? Do diabetics want to do this?? -- and Phobics Anonymous (How

would someone with agoraphobia get out to a meeting? and if they did,

wouldn't that be a sign they're no longer phobic?).

~Rita

---------------------------

mike may wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10868

> Hi everyone,

> I didn't find the site with all 150 yet, bet here are a few I did

find so

> far.

> Adult Children Anonymous/ACoA

> Al-Anon/Alateen Home Page - Official Al-Anon Web Site

> Al-Anon - Alateen - Unofficial site

> Alcoholics Victorious (Christian)

> A.R.T.S. Anonymous

> Calix Society (Catholic)

> Cancer Anonymous

> Chemically Dependent Anonymous

> Christians in Recovery

> Christian Recovery Connection - Alcoholics Victorious

> Co-Anon Family Groups

> Christian Survivors of Sexual Abuse

> Cocaine Anonymous

> Co-Dependents Anonymous Home Page

> Codependents of Sexual Addiction

> Crystal Meth Anonymous

> Debtors Anonymous

> Dual Recovery Anonymous

> Emotions Anonymous

> Gamblers Anonymous

> Incest Survivors

> Jews in Recovery from Alcholism and Drug Abuse

> Marijuana Anonymous

> Moderation Management

> Crystal Meth Anonymous

> Nar-Anon Family Groups

> Narcotics Anonymous

> Nicotine Anonymous

> Obsessive Compulsive Anonymous

> Overeaters Anonymous

> Overcomers Outreach (Christian)

> Panic-Anxiety Home Page

> Partners and Friends of Incest Survivors Anonymous

> Recovering Couples Anonymous

> Rape and Sexual Assault - Mailing Lists

> Rational Recovery

> Recovery, Inc.

> Relationship Anonymous

> S-Anon International Family Groups

> Sexaholics Anonymous

> Sex Addicts Anonymous

> Sexual Compulsives Anonymous

> Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous

> Sexual Recovery Anonymous

> Secular Organizations for Sobriety

> S.M.A.R.T. Recovery

> Suicide Awareness

> Trauma Anonymous (PTSD)

> United Methodists in Recovery

> Women For Sobriety

> Workaholics Anonymous

> Youth for Environmental Sanity

> HESHE anonymous

> I tried to start procrastonators anonymous a few years back, but no

one

> showed. I also hear there is an Anonymous Anonymous, but they value

> their ananymity so much that no one can find them.

> Mike

>

December 31, 1999

bet there is a lot of screwing around going on in that

group..old experienced males spot a new female member?

Fresh meat! (probably the reverse is true too,

experienced female predators, etc)...

--- Railroad Rita wrote:

> mike may wrote:

> original

>

article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10865

>

> > Yes there is a group for sex addicts. SAA

> " original eh "

> >

> > Mike

> -------------------------

>

> Our own Pete Watts has told us a lot about the

> two " sex addicts "

> 12-step groups. They actually use ludicrous

> terminology like " sexual

> sobriety " and have rigidly defined (and very

> arbitrary) definitions of

> " acceptable " sexuality.

>

> ~Rita

>

> > At 10:55 AM 12/30/1999 -0800, you wrote:

> > >is there a group for sex addicts?

> > >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Sneezing, wheezing, trouble breathing? If you have

> allergies or asthma, or

> want to breathe happier and healthier, we can help.

> Visit gazoontite.com

> for the products, information and services you need

> to breathe easier.

> http://click./1/396/1/_/4324/_/946643833

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> --

>

/vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

__________________________________________________

December 31, 1999

thanks I was curious...lets see what else could there

be?

soap operas anonymous

internet anonymous

Stern anonymous (for dealing with shame of

being a Stern fan..I struggle with this

sometimes)

Reading the national enquirer anonymous (could be

expanded to: reading trashy periodicals anonymous)

dirty car and messy room anonymous (shamefully I

revert to this behavior from time to time..think I

need a group for this)

NFL and NBA Anonymous (could expand to NCAA

anonymous...big addiction to basketball problem here

in Indiana)

Careless Drivers anonymous - recovery from the painful

process of forgetting to get your oil changed when

you're supposed to.

Parents of kids who run around and make a lot of noise

support group.

Men whose wives make them take out the Trash United

People who really don't give a shit who becomes

president anonymous

Men who occasionally sneak a peek at playboy at new

stands anonymous.

" Cherry Masters " gambling recovery group

Getting in touch with your inner sissy groups

Men who can't fix appliances...and the women who love

them family support groups.

etc. etc. etc.

--- appledtp@... wrote:

> Yes there is , it's called SLAA. (sex & love

> addicts

> anonymous). The thing is that most people who have a

> serious sex

> addiction aren't in SLAA, but in AA & NA waiting for

> the next newcomer

> to arrive. You see, people only seek help for an

> addiction problem

> when something BAD happens to them. (you don't see

> Gambling addicts who

> are on winning streaks walk into Gamblers

> Anonymous!) As long as the

> sex addict can meet his/her needs, it's not a

> problem (to them).

> Apple

>

> michael kraemer wrote:

> original

>

article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10864

> > is there a group for sex addicts?

> >

> > >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING

> FOR YOU!

> Gator fills in forms and remembers passwords with NO

> TYPING at over

> 100,000 web sites! Get $100 in coupons for trying

> Gator!

> http://click./1/340/1/_/4324/_/946597998

>

> -- Check out your group's private Chat room

> --

>

/ChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

__________________________________________________

December 31, 1999

The official wacky list is here:

http://www.bcrecovernet.org/belief/wacky_world.htm

Notice Jim K's Church of God anonymous leads the pack.

apple

> This appears to be a list of recovery groups in general, not

> limited to 12-step. (Notice SMART, WFS, and some standard-Christian

> groups are listed. Also, " Jews in Recovery " [JACS] is not a recovery

> meeting program, it's mostly a website of Jewish apologists for AA --

> " try to stay serene when others say Christian prayers such as the

> " Lord's Prayer " and when they say things that might be considered

> insensitive to Jews " --)

>

> I don't remember where I saw the list of all the 12-step clone

> groups, but I remember being particularly startled by Diabetics

> Anonymous -- does confessing " moral defects " to a doorknob alleviate

> diabetes? Do diabetics want to do this?? -- and Phobics Anonymous

(How

> would someone with agoraphobia get out to a meeting? and if they did,

> wouldn't that be a sign they're no longer phobic?).

>

> ~Rita

>

December 31, 1999

Yep. If I don't get a date in 2000 I'm going to join them too. Hey, if

you can't beat 'em....

Apple ;-)

michael kraemer wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10885

> bet there is a lot of screwing around going on in that

> group..old experienced males spot a new female member?

> Fresh meat! (probably the reverse is true too,

> experienced female predators, etc)...

>

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