Re:He's Back In Jail

[Guest guest]

You actually thought like my daughter?? It is hard to believe.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

Where can I get the workbook? And would Alanon be beneficial to me or is it

only for families of alcoholics?

Jean

[Guest guest]

It is truly amazing how people cannot accept things in thier lies, the man in

jail is thei one responsible for the reason he is there. The rest of them

should punished for encouraging him to continue breaking the law.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

I have found with , as long as she is getting attention from someone,

she'll like them. As long as they don't find fault with her or anything she

does, she's o k with them. And, they have so much in common now. I just had

her husband, his mother's son and sister's brother put back in jail. They

must

be having the time of their lives comiserating about what a B____ I am.

I think they'll all get a lot of miles out of this!

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

The BPD illness of your daughter cannot maintain many relationships at one time.

That is why they stay isolated and isolate thier partners. Remember when she

was pregnant she couldnt stand to be away from you long enough for you to go to

the bathroom. There is only room for one person at a time. it is all that

stuff jumpled up in their head and remember it is like peices of many puzzles

floating around in there and they dont ever see the whole picture, only the

black or the white, so when one person is white the rest are filed away in the

black filing cabinet, they cant deal with that at the same time. When not

dealing with the primary white they can take things in and out of the filing

cabinet. But only one at a time. In my opinion when they have taken too many

things out of the filing cabinet without filing something back they loose

balance and rage.

Bottom line is that you are angry, and you are going to have to stop obsessing

over the anger. The best way to do that is to really get some of the books

recomended and start reading. And start using the SWOE workbook to make your

life better. Or you are gonnad drive yourself mad trying to make sense of it.

It doesnt make any sense. And to your daughter when you are angry at her while

she has you pulled out of the black and into the white she will not and cannot

comprehend that she has done anything to make you angry. She is very sick,

and you cannot help her. You can only help you!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

You ask how would my daughter suddenly know how to have a healthy

relstionship with her kids when BPs don't know howw to have healthy

relationships period.

My question is why does she act appropriately as a mother with her kids

(outwardly loving, plays board games with them, bathes them daily, etc) when

there

is no guy in her life and then AS SOON as one of these bums moves in

everything goes to hell?

I don't care whether she REALLY loves them or not as long as she makes it so

THEY feel that they are loved by her. As long as she fulfills their needs, I

really don't give a d--- what she really feels.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I concur with Kelley.

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Jean

The BPD illness of your daughter cannot maintain many relationships at one

time. That is why they stay isolated and isolate thier partners. Remember

when she was pregnant she couldnt stand to be away from you long enough for

you to go to the bathroom. There is only room for one person at a time. it

is all that stuff jumpled up in their head and remember it is like peices of

many puzzles floating around in there and they dont ever see the whole

picture, only the black or the white, so when one person is white the rest

are filed away in the black filing cabinet, they cant deal with that at the

same time. When not dealing with the primary white they can take things in

and out of the filing cabinet. But only one at a time. In my opinion when

they have taken too many things out of the filing cabinet without filing

something back they loose balance and rage.

Bottom line is that you are angry, and you are going to have to stop

obsessing over the anger. The best way to do that is to really get some of

the books recomended and start reading. And start using the SWOE workbook

to make your life better. Or you are gonnad drive yourself mad trying to

make sense of it. It doesnt make any sense. And to your daughter when you

are angry at her while she has you pulled out of the black and into the

white she will not and cannot comprehend that she has done anything to make

you angry. She is very sick, and you cannot help her. You can only

help you!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

You ask how would my daughter suddenly know how to have a healthy

relstionship with her kids when BPs don't know howw to have healthy

relationships period.

My question is why does she act appropriately as a mother with her kids

(outwardly loving, plays board games with them, bathes them daily, etc)

when there

is no guy in her life and then AS SOON as one of these bums moves in

everything goes to hell?

I don't care whether she REALLY loves them or not as long as she makes it

so

THEY feel that they are loved by her. As long as she fulfills their

needs, I

really don't give a d--- what she really feels.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Oh my husband has not stopped the craziness he goes in and out of crazymaking

fugues. Some of the crazy stopped when I called the police for the last time,

and they asked him to leave and suggested he stay gone for a few days, and

handed me a peice of paper with numbers to call to get protective orders. I

did. He was gone three days then calling to tell me how it was gonna be if he

came back. In the end I only allowed him back if he agreed to therapy, joint

and individual. I also have a contract with him that mostly is ignored. In the

three weeks he was gone I spent all day every day online at several groups

online. I spent the time between reading and posting reading books, I Hate You

Don't Leave Me, Stop Walking on Eggshells, and started working on the workbook.

I took that three weeks to get myself back. I have not stopped since then.

He also did some reading and admitting of problems, we got a therapist but he

continues to not go .....he refused to see a psychiatrist for meds, but agreed

if i found something natural he would take that. With the help of our therapist

and some online information and my library of herb books, we came up with

something that works for him WHEN he takes it REGULARLY! he still needs to go

to therapy. And he still regularly switches and blasts me, however I dont get

hurt by it anymore I just walk away and let him be. To be honest at this stage

things are worse than they were before, only difference is I dont buy it, I dont

own it, I dont deal with it at all, I just walk away, and he cant stand that!

the other difference is he apologizes. We are at a stage now where I said just

last week, apologies are no longer enough. There is also the fact that his sons

mother is crazier than he is. we suspect BPD in her as well. Problems are

coming up in his 6 year old son that are definitely markers for things to come.

Oh yeah the sunday school teacher says he is soooo sweet what a wonderful child,

but she doesnt see what happens when he loses a game or doesnt get his way,

things like trying to choke the neighbor kid to death. so seeing himself in his

son has helped some too, but we have a tremendously long way to go still.

Read read read, the more you read and re-read sooner or later light bulbs start

to go off. And always remember, You didnt cause this, you cant fix it, you can

only help yourself. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them

drink!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

How did your husband all of a sudden stop the crazyness? And will my

daughter hold a grudge because I had dirt bag arrested? Do they hold grudges

in

general?

Jean

[Guest guest]

It took many readings of I Hate You and SWOE to finally udnerstand that. Many

refer to BPD's as thinking in black and white, when the light bulb went off it

was there is no AND. It is an either or thing. No middle ground at all. AND

would infer they were mixed which would be normal, OR means one or the other

which made more sense to me. I liked the file cabinet analogy because it

reminded me of my computer. If i put something in one file, and dont tell the

computer where it is it will not find it for me

Kelley

Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

" ,,,,In my opinion when they have taken too many things out of the

filing cabinet without filing something back they loose balance and

rage. "

It's a great analogy. I agree with your opinion and the seeing in

Black & White. It' makes so much sense.

Jean

I hope everything's going well. Take care of yourself, look after

you!!!! It took me a while to realise that I had to start looking

after me. It's true that when you're a mother, you're so used

to 'looking after' everyone else, you forget yourself. NOW is the

time YOU have to look after YOU!!!!

Hugs to all those who need them.

Send questions & concerns to WTOParentsOfBPs-owner . " Stop

Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL

(). For the table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

,

i am so glad you are here. It helps me when i say something that makes sense to

you of all people! Helps keep me on the right path with my BPH!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

If she cannot deal with more than one person at a time, then why not just

give me the boys and they'll be out of her hair. And she can have the

dirt bag

and her loser husband whom she will not be able to support much longer and

she'll have the baby, isn't that already more than she can handle?

Jean

PS You're right about only one person at a time. When she is with him she

doesn't want to leave him at all. She doesn't want to work unless he can

go

too, that's why last summer she pretended to work at real estate by having

HIM

with the dirty long hair pass out flyers ( " Thinking of Selling Your

Home? " ) with

her. Now wouldn't anyone want him even on their doorstep !!!??? And, I

asked her if she was going to be going back to waitressing a few

days/week. She

told me absolutely not. That's because she would have to be away from

him.

So, she's not planning on working!

[Guest guest]

Oh, yes, very much so! That is why I feel such a great degree of compassion

for her.

Here on the forum, I hear so many frustrated parents (and I've certainly

been one of them) who state time after time they don't understand the

behaviors and feelings. I do understand the feelings of anger, outrage and

depression that accompany trying to deal with a bp kid.

But, I feel so very sorry for these kids (and adults) who struggle with this

truly debilitating disease. Their actions reflect their view of life, and

their constant struggle to try to find meaning and value for their lives.

So, while I have compassion for the bp parent's (after all, I am one, too),

I feel great sadness when I hear of the antics of the kids (adults), because

I know the depth of feelings that motivate those antics.

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

You actually thought like my daughter?? It is hard to believe.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

My BPH blames me for everything. But as time went by he needed me more in his

life than out I guess so he forgives or found a way to accept what happened.

When in rage mode though it still comes up, in fact that is my first key to get

the hell out of his way when he says go ahead call the police....I know he is

going to be spouting deranged things and leave him to deal with it.

It may be a reality to her for now that you are to blame. Later it will just

surface randomly as she pulls bad things out of the file cabinet, wont make any

sense, another time it might be that you grounded her once as a child.....there

is not reasoning which bad thing comes up and out. I often get accused of

things that son's mother did. As in he goes off the wall about me drinking,

mind you three drinks and i am funny and pass out, so I could never get to the

state she gets into .....at these times i tell him i think he has me confused

with someone else....or if it is the police thing I tell him keep it up and that

is what will happen!

Dont worry about the grudge right now, because withoug help she will find a

grudge to turn you black when she needs to. If it helps you at all in my

opinion my BPH turns ugly to me and projects all his own bad things at me, he is

actually mirroring my good things. In other words the person raged against the

most it probably the one the BPD actually thinks makes the most sense, but

remember if you make sense and are right then they are wrong and they CANNOT be

wrong. That is a flaw, they cannot accept that they have problems. I mean

something as trivial as a pimple is a major medical issue for someone with BPD.

Everything is more intense! Take spilled milk, you might say damn why am i so

clumsy, but your daughter would go off the deep end over spilled milk.

Literally. Making it more like the refrigerator literally m elted all over the

kitchen

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

I appreciate your sharing your husband's situation with me. Was he ever as

crazy as my daughter? And do they hold grudges when they feel they have been

wronged like my turning in her dirt bag?

Jean

[Guest guest]

jean

I order most of my books from Amazon online but I found my work book at Books a

Million. Alanon might be a good step to start with, as it does cover the

codependence and enabling that we do. There is also NAMI, there may be a group

local to you and they deal with mental illness. You might also find a co

dependent anon or soemthing similar. Just do a web search for NAMI and they

will direct you to your area.

Also just search on BPD online and start reading. Other avenues to search are

emotional abuse.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

Where can I get the workbook? And would Alanon be beneficial to me or is it

only for families of alcoholics?

Jean

[Guest guest]

One book you might be interested in, beside the Stop Walking on Eggshells

one (and its accompanying workbook) is A Bright Red Scream. This deals a

lot with interviews of bp people and how they think and view the world.

But, it is also rather specific to self-mutilators. It is very intense, so

if you're not ready for that, you should mark it down somewhere as an

" I-can-read-this-when-I'm-stronger " type book.

katie

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

jean

I order most of my books from Amazon online but I found my work book at

Books a Million. Alanon might be a good step to start with, as it does

cover the codependence and enabling that we do. There is also NAMI, there

may be a group local to you and they deal with mental illness. You might

also find a co dependent anon or soemthing similar. Just do a web search

for NAMI and they will direct you to your area.

Also just search on BPD online and start reading. Other avenues to search

are emotional abuse.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

Where can I get the workbook? And would Alanon be beneficial to me or is

it

only for families of alcoholics?

Jean

[Guest guest]

,

Most of the problems I incurred on other groups, other than here or the

WTOSTaying was that lack of empathy and understanding the problems. So much

anger and hatefullness that I knew that was not the answer. So I have learned

and learned as much as I can, and now see things thins differently. I know I

cannot begin to comprehend the confusion and emptiness in my BPH, however I do

have a glimmer of what it could be, I also know I couldnt deal with it in my own

head. I think if I had all that going on in my head I would be one of the ones

who cut and or try suicide. I am thankful that I stopped looking only at my own

hurt from the situation and can now most of the time take myself out side of the

equation. Does that make sense? To do this I think of the neighbors three year

old. She shakes her head no when she means yes. If I deal with my BPH on that

level it is much easier to understand.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

If she cannot deal with more than one person at a time, then why not

just

give me the boys and they'll be out of her hair. And she can have the

dirt bag

and her loser husband whom she will not be able to support much longer

and

she'll have the baby, isn't that already more than she can handle?

Jean

PS You're right about only one person at a time. When she is with him

she

doesn't want to leave him at all. She doesn't want to work unless he

can

go

too, that's why last summer she pretended to work at real estate by

having

HIM

with the dirty long hair pass out flyers ( " Thinking of Selling Your

Home? " ) with

her. Now wouldn't anyone want him even on their doorstep !!!??? And, I

asked her if she was going to be going back to waitressing a few

days/week. She

told me absolutely not. That's because she would have to be away from

him.

So, she's not planning on working!

[Guest guest]

Got everyone's suggestions for reading and locating a NAMI affiliates here.

Thank you.

Now if Angelina Joli is BP, I'll bet the tabloids will never fimf her

marrying and supporting a convict !!!!

Jean

[Guest guest]

Absolutely. Real love takes work and commitment.

Meredith

Remember, love isn't always a feeling. I love my husband, but I

don't always have the emotion of love, but the commitment, which I

believe that true love is, is there.

[Guest guest]

jean

start with Stop Walking on Eggshells and the workbook that goes with it. It is

the most informative all the way around to start with and we Nons call it our

bible. It is also one of the few that addresses how a NON can help.

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

I know that throughout this month period that I have been posting, many of

you have mentioned various books. I am ready to learn. Could, would someone

give me a list of books, workbooks, groups I could join, etc. Thanks in

advance.

Jean

[Guest guest]

that is the hardest part for a NON to get past, because it does feel personal.

I still get caught up in it sometimes but usually when I am needing support for

me! My BPH really does make it seem personal. But now that I stopped

questioning what i did wrong and realize I didnt do anything wrong I can look at

him and see the difference. I can say who or what are you angry about. He

still claims he is not angry most of the time but you can almost see the steam

coming out of his ears

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

If she cannot deal with more than one person at a time, then why not

just

give me the boys and they'll be out of her hair. And she can have the

dirt bag

and her loser husband whom she will not be able to support much longer

and

she'll have the baby, isn't that already more than she can handle?

Jean

PS You're right about only one person at a time. When she is with him

she

doesn't want to leave him at all. She doesn't want to work unless he

can

go

too, that's why last summer she pretended to work at real estate by

having

HIM

with the dirty long hair pass out flyers ( " Thinking of Selling Your

Home? " ) with

her. Now wouldn't anyone want him even on their doorstep !!!??? And,

I

asked her if she was going to be going back to waitressing a few

days/week. She

told me absolutely not. That's because she would have to be away from

him.

So, she's not planning on working!

[Guest guest]

Kelley--

Back when my husband and I were dating, I was still coming out of the whole

bp thing. I would get mad about something, and he'd take it personal. To be

honest, it took BOTH of us a while to figure out where the anger was coming

from, and what it was pointing towards.

But, once we were able to discover the source of the anger, it diffused the

anger, and we were able to work through the situation and get past it. I

must confess however, that often times, the source of the anger was buried

and we had to work HARD to figure things out.

I do firmly believe that my husband's dedication and love commitment to me

were HUGELY instrumental in my recovery.

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

that is the hardest part for a NON to get past, because it does feel

personal. I still get caught up in it sometimes but usually when I am

needing support for me! My BPH really does make it seem personal. But now

that I stopped questioning what i did wrong and realize I didnt do anything

wrong I can look at him and see the difference. I can say who or what are

you angry about. He still claims he is not angry most of the time but you

can almost see the steam coming out of his ears

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Kelley

If she cannot deal with more than one person at a time, then why not

just

give me the boys and they'll be out of her hair. And she can have

the

dirt bag

and her loser husband whom she will not be able to support much

longer

and

she'll have the baby, isn't that already more than she can handle?

Jean

PS You're right about only one person at a time. When she is with

him

she

doesn't want to leave him at all. She doesn't want to work unless

he

can

go

too, that's why last summer she pretended to work at real estate by

having

HIM

with the dirty long hair pass out flyers ( " Thinking of Selling Your

Home? " ) with

her. Now wouldn't anyone want him even on their doorstep !!!???

And,

I

asked her if she was going to be going back to waitressing a few

days/week. She

told me absolutely not. That's because she would have to be away

from

him.

So, she's not planning on working!

[Guest guest]

Has anything ever been said about Kidman having any psych problems.

My son says he always thought there was something not right with her. Being in

the acting/theater field is probably a good hiding place for people with

problems. Who would know if they have fluid identies---it would seem normal.

Jean

[Guest guest]

If she's really BP and also dissociates ( " forgets " ), then it's unlikely she

holds grudges. I agree with that all that anger uses up a lot of energy,

so there's not enough left to hold a grudge.

Meredith

-----

And do they hold grudges when they feel they have

been

wronged like my turning in her dirt bag?

Jean

[Guest guest]

,

I think your message here, especially the first paragraph, speaks to

the very essence of the purpose of this group.

As we all know we cannot change our bp loved one, we need to take a

look at ourselves and address our anger, guilt and other issues

which make US feel crazy.

We are all responsible for our own feelings and I truly believe, as

you do, that the empowerment we feel when we succcessully deal with

our feelings is a great stride toward health.

Carolyn

> Kelley--

>

> I agree. When the family of a bp member can let go of the hate

and the

> bitterness associated with a loved one with bp, they have stepped

on a road

> towards personal empowerment and health.

>

> Bp-ism IS something that takes work to understand. Because the

thinking is

> so black and white, and because of the huge, huge hole inside,

their actions

> are frequently misunderstood and much maligned.

>

> Of course, this IS understandable, because very few people, I've

come to

> believe, truly understand the depth of fear and chaos inside of a

bp's heart

> (and yes, I do believe they have a heart). Their actions appear

to have no

> logical reasoning behind them, yet, to the bp, it is obvious they

have NO

> CHOICE but to act (or react) in this fashion.

>

> But, no matter what is going on in the head of your bp loved one,

in order

> to be helpful to THEM in the long run, we must FIRST (as

the " sane " ones)

> attend to our own mental health, and make sure we're strong and

doing good

> things for ourselves. That is paramount.

>

> Taking yourself out of the equation definitely makes a lot of

sense. One of

> the things I hear a lot on the forum is parents taking the actions

of their

> bp kids towards them, personally.

>

> I think this is too bad, because, off the cuff, I can't think of a

time when

> that is really true. I guess it is because the bp's behavior is

so wild and

> APPEARS to be so pointed and personal that it is perceived by the

> unfortunate person on the receiving end as personal.

>

> Yet, I well remember the rages of my past. The motivation for my

rages and

> actions was NEVER really directed at the person I was speaking

with or

> dealing with. I raged because I felt rage inside, and had a

desperate need

> to express that feeling and be understood.

>

> But, of course, for those of us without bp, the rages definitely

feel

> pointed at us!!!

>

> I believe, that to truly understand bp-ism, the parent or loved

one MUST

> understand the underlying thinking of the bp, what motivates them.

> Otherwise, it will continually be a tug-of-war, and the loved one

will find

> themselves on the " losing " end time and time again.

>

> When a measure of understanding is the realization a bp's actions

are NOT

> personal, and the family member can step back, regroup, regain

strength, and

> let go of the bitterness and anger that I hear so often.

>

>

>

> ,

> Most of the problems I incurred on other groups, other than here

or the

> WTOSTaying was that lack of empathy and understanding the

problems. So much

> anger and hatefullness that I knew that was not the answer. So I

have

> learned and learned as much as I can, and now see things thins

differently.

> I know I cannot begin to comprehend the confusion and emptiness in

my BPH,

> however I do have a glimmer of what it could be, I also know I

couldnt deal

> with it in my own head. I think if I had all that going on in my

head I

> would be one of the ones who cut and or try suicide. I am

thankful that I

> stopped looking only at my own hurt from the situation and can now

most of

> the time take myself out side of the equation. Does that make

sense? To do

> this I think of the neighbors three year old. She shakes her head

no when

> she means yes. If I deal with my BPH on that level it is much

easier to

> understand.

> Hugs

> Kelley

> Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

>

>

> Kelley

>

> If she cannot deal with more than one person at a time, then

why not

> just

> give me the boys and they'll be out of her hair. And she

can have the

> dirt bag

> and her loser husband whom she will not be able to support

much longer

> and

>

> she'll have the baby, isn't that already more than she can

handle?

>

> Jean

>

> PS You're right about only one person at a time. When she

is with him

> she

>

> doesn't want to leave him at all. She doesn't want to work

unless he

> can

> go

> too, that's why last summer she pretended to work at real

estate by

> having

> HIM

> with the dirty long hair pass out flyers ( " Thinking of

Selling Your

> Home? " ) with

> her. Now wouldn't anyone want him even on their

doorstep !!!??? And,

> I

>

> asked her if she was going to be going back to waitressing a

few

> days/week. She

> told me absolutely not. That's because she would have to be

away from

> him.

> So, she's not planning on working!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carolyn--

For some reason, the last couple days, a poem by Frost has lingered

in my consciousness.

It is called, " The Road Not Taken, " and can speak, I think, to those of us

working very hard to find health and deal with our bp loved ones.

The last stanza says:

Somewhere ages and ages hence:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

It seems that when we deal with mental health issues, that we must look to

the road " less traveled by " the folks who don't struggle with a loved one

having a mental illness.

And, I truly believe, as we dare to step outside the box of our friends'

understandings, and our own thinkings of how things SHOULD be (but aren't),

that daring to take the road less traveled by, we will, too, find " that has

made all the difference. "

Re:He's Back In Jail

,

I think your message here, especially the first paragraph, speaks to

the very essence of the purpose of this group.

As we all know we cannot change our bp loved one, we need to take a

look at ourselves and address our anger, guilt and other issues

which make US feel crazy.

We are all responsible for our own feelings and I truly believe, as

you do, that the empowerment we feel when we succcessully deal with

our feelings is a great stride toward health.

Carolyn

> Kelley--

>

> I agree. When the family of a bp member can let go of the hate

and the

> bitterness associated with a loved one with bp, they have stepped

on a road

> towards personal empowerment and health.

>

> Bp-ism IS something that takes work to understand. Because the

thinking is

> so black and white, and because of the huge, huge hole inside,

their actions

> are frequently misunderstood and much maligned.

>

> Of course, this IS understandable, because very few people, I've

come to

> believe, truly understand the depth of fear and chaos inside of a

bp's heart

> (and yes, I do believe they have a heart). Their actions appear

to have no

> logical reasoning behind them, yet, to the bp, it is obvious they

have NO

> CHOICE but to act (or react) in this fashion.

>

> But, no matter what is going on in the head of your bp loved one,

in order

> to be helpful to THEM in the long run, we must FIRST (as

the " sane " ones)

> attend to our own mental health, and make sure we're strong and

doing good

> things for ourselves. That is paramount.

>

> Taking yourself out of the equation definitely makes a lot of

sense. One of

> the things I hear a lot on the forum is parents taking the actions

of their

> bp kids towards them, personally.

>

> I think this is too bad, because, off the cuff, I can't think of a

time when

> that is really true. I guess it is because the bp's behavior is

so wild and

> APPEARS to be so pointed and personal that it is perceived by the

> unfortunate person on the receiving end as personal.

>

> Yet, I well remember the rages of my past. The motivation for my

rages and

> actions was NEVER really directed at the person I was speaking

with or

> dealing with. I raged because I felt rage inside, and had a

desperate need

> to express that feeling and be understood.

>

> But, of course, for those of us without bp, the rages definitely

feel

> pointed at us!!!

>

> I believe, that to truly understand bp-ism, the parent or loved

one MUST

> understand the underlying thinking of the bp, what motivates them.

> Otherwise, it will continually be a tug-of-war, and the loved one

will find

> themselves on the " losing " end time and time again.

>

> When a measure of understanding is the realization a bp's actions

are NOT

> personal, and the family member can step back, regroup, regain

strength, and

> let go of the bitterness and anger that I hear so often.

>

>

>

> ,

> Most of the problems I incurred on other groups, other than here

or the

> WTOSTaying was that lack of empathy and understanding the

problems. So much

> anger and hatefullness that I knew that was not the answer. So I

have

> learned and learned as much as I can, and now see things thins

differently.

> I know I cannot begin to comprehend the confusion and emptiness in

my BPH,

> however I do have a glimmer of what it could be, I also know I

couldnt deal

> with it in my own head. I think if I had all that going on in my

head I

> would be one of the ones who cut and or try suicide. I am

thankful that I

> stopped looking only at my own hurt from the situation and can now

most of

> the time take myself out side of the equation. Does that make

sense? To do

> this I think of the neighbors three year old. She shakes her head

no when

> she means yes. If I deal with my BPH on that level it is much

easier to

> understand.

> Hugs

> Kelley

> Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

>

>

> Kelley

>

> If she cannot deal with more than one person at a time, then

why not

> just

> give me the boys and they'll be out of her hair. And she

can have the

> dirt bag

> and her loser husband whom she will not be able to support

much longer

> and

>

> she'll have the baby, isn't that already more than she can

handle?

>

> Jean

>

> PS You're right about only one person at a time. When she

is with him

> she

>

> doesn't want to leave him at all. She doesn't want to work

unless he

> can

> go

> too, that's why last summer she pretended to work at real

estate by

> having

> HIM

> with the dirty long hair pass out flyers ( " Thinking of

Selling Your

> Home? " ) with

> her. Now wouldn't anyone want him even on their

doorstep !!!??? And,

> I

>

> asked her if she was going to be going back to waitressing a

few

> days/week. She

> told me absolutely not. That's because she would have to be

away from

> him.

> So, she's not planning on working!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

heheeh she is too wealthy for that! but she was married to Billi Bob Thornton

who does not have the nicest of reputations with women!

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Got everyone's suggestions for reading and locating a NAMI affiliates here.

Thank you.

Now if Angelina Joli is BP, I'll bet the tabloids will never fimf her

marrying and supporting a convict !!!!

Jean

[Guest guest]

Who can keep up with all those Hollywood types?!

katie

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Has anything ever been said about Kidman having any psych problems.

My son says he always thought there was something not right with her. Being

in

the acting/theater field is probably a good hiding place for people with

problems. Who would know if they have fluid identies---it would seem

normal.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I find this sort of talk offensive. Virtually no one acts normally in abnormal

environments. Hollywood celebrities are ordinary people set adrift in crazy

circumstances. I doubt many people could handle themselves well.

I also think that when we discuss mentally ill artists in derogatory terms we

fail to appreciate that their brain chemistry made it possible for this art to

exist. WPeople with mental illness may be difficult to live with, but without

their differences, we would have little to enjoy.

Meredith