Re: Fats & Cholesterol

February 7, 2008

On 2/6/08, chriskjezp <chriskresser@...> wrote:

>

> Dr. Erasmus quotes several peer reviewed studies in his summary of the

> issue. I'm not

> sure why the link didn't work, because that is indeed the address. You can

> find the article

> by going to his site, clicking on " articles " and then " Humans turn ALA to

> EPA/DHA " .

Thank you. My internet's been giving me problems so that's probably

why. I'll check it out later.

[snip]

> Here are some of their

> estimates (the

> first three estimates below were given to Udo by Sam Graci from discussions

> Sam said he

> had with Holub, Sears, and Schmidt):

>

> Dr. Bruce Holub (U. of Guelph): 10-15%;

> Dr. Barry Sears (The Zone Diet): up to 18%;

> Dr. Schmidt (Smart Fats): 10%;

> Dr. EA Emken et al3 (research): 17%;

> Dr. GC Burdge et al1,2 (research): 16%-men; 36%-women;

> Dr. SM Innis7 (research): infants convert;

> Dr. JT Brenna8 (research): all ages convert;

> VP Carnielli et al9; C Billeaud et al10 'prematures' convert;

Interesting. I'll have to check these out. The recent reviews and

textbook reviews I have seen claim more along the lines of 1-5%.

However, this is still besides the point. There is no evidence that I

know of that there is any specific benefit to the precursor fatty

acids that is not obtained from the long-chain versions, so there is

no reason we should want 80-90% precursor fatt acid and 10-20%

long-chain end product. It is just a waste of total PUFA intake the

way I see it. I think we should obtain the small amounts of the FAs

we need and all things equal minimize total PUFA intake.

[snip]

> The only reason this is relevant in my mind is regarding the debate on

> whether derivative

> supplementation is necessary/beneficial at all. Some (like UDO, and the

> people who make

> the YES Parent Essential Oil supplement that Dr. Cowan recommends) suggest

> not taking

> fish oils at all, and taking the n-3/n-6 fatty acids in the form of

> vegetable and seed oils.

> Others, like WAPF, are big on CLO and fish oils. Of course CLO has other

> benefits, in

> particular Vitamin A & D.

Right, and that is the main reason for taking CLO. Also, to get a

gram of DHA/EPA from CLO you need to take roughly a gram of PUFA (one

teaspoon CLO), whereas to get a gram from flax oil according to Udo's

estimates you need to take 3-10 grams or so. Why bother raising the

total PUFA intake?

Your question seems to me to be framed backwards. It is a greater

cost to have a higher PUFA intake, so the question is whether it is

necessary/beneficial to supplement with the precursor fatty acids at

all.

Chris

February 7, 2008

Hi Patty,

>.> At the very least, I would make some effort to consume shellfish,

> > especially oysters and clams, several times per month if you wish to

> > reduce animal products.

> I'm seriously allergic to shellfish (iodine) and play Russian

> roulette when I do eat them and have to make sure I have my inhaler

> handy.

I take back that recommendation then, but that is all the more reason

to eat decent quantities of animal products. (Shellfish are much

richer in animal-based nutrients, so they allow you to eat fewer

animal products.)

[snip]

> > Regarding the asthma, how are your vitamin A levels? Do you eat much

> > vitamin A (i.e. liver or cod liver oil)?

> I take CLO (3 caps 3x/day..NOW brand) Do I need more than that?

That gives you a little over 3,000 IU per day. I would consider

boosting it to see if it helps. I don't know if you need more because

I don't know how your vitamin A status is, but there are a number of

studies showing that vitamin A deficiency is associated with the

incidence of asthma and that the severity of vitamin A deficiency is

associated with the severity of asthma in children, so it may well be

true in adults also.

> > What do you do for exercise? Being healthy is more than what you eat.

> I try to exercise with a Gazelle (cross country ski-ing). It's the

> only thing I can remotely tolerate. I have had a hip replacement

> which is unstable, a knee replacement, back and neck surgery, a

> separated shoulder joint and have severe arthritis in my feet, so,

> until I can beat the pain, I can't do a lot of exercise, but I try.

I don't know what to recommend with these conditions, but if there is

any way you can do weight-bearing exercises of any sort that build

some muscle, it should help boost both your resting and active energy

consumption, which would be very helpful.

> I very much appreciate the suggestions. I don't understand why no

> fat from poultry because you get the fat if you eat it and I eat

> poultry almost exclusively. The knowledge in this group is amazing.

> Thanks again!

But my recommendation about what is good to eat is not based on what

you eat. I wouldn't eat poultry exclusively because it is

considerably less nutritious than red meat and is higher in PUFA. In

any case, I was addressing what to use for added fats and oils. If

you eat a piece of chicken *and* cook the rest of your meal in chicken

fat, you are going to get a lot more chicken fat than if you just eat

the piece of chicken. Poultry fat is pretty high in PUFA, so if you

are going to add a fat or oil to your diet, I would use one that is

lower in PUFA.

Chris

February 7, 2008

Odd question... If a chicken was fed a low PUFA diet, would it be low

PUFA for us to eat?

-Lana

> But my recommendation about what is good to eat is not based on what

> you eat. I wouldn't eat poultry exclusively because it is

> considerably less nutritious than red meat and is higher in PUFA. In

> any case, I was addressing what to use for added fats and oils. If

> you eat a piece of chicken *and* cook the rest of your meal in chicken

> fat, you are going to get a lot more chicken fat than if you just eat

> the piece of chicken. Poultry fat is pretty high in PUFA, so if you

> are going to add a fat or oil to your diet, I would use one that is

> lower in PUFA.

>

> Chris

February 7, 2008

--- Patty <mellowsong@...> wrote:

> I'm seriously allergic to shellfish (iodine) and play Russian

> roulette when I do eat them and have to make sure I have my inhaler

> handy.

My wife says she is allergic to " iodine " in shellfish also. But I

thought all allergies were to proteins, not minerals? And iodine is

an essential mineral that we all need. Is it perhaps a protein that

has iodine in it that causes these allergies?

February 7, 2008

Another odd question:

What about the fat in chicken bone broth? My chicken bone broth always has an

inch or more fat on the top and I always try to include that in my cup of broth

because I thought it was rich in vitamins A and D because it is from free-range

chickens.

Thanks,

Kathy

---- Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

>

> Odd question... If a chicken was fed a low PUFA diet, would it be low

> PUFA for us to eat?

>

> -Lana

>

> > But my recommendation about what is good to eat is not based on what

> > you eat. I wouldn't eat poultry exclusively because it is

> > considerably less nutritious than red meat and is higher in PUFA. In

> > any case, I was addressing what to use for added fats and oils. If

> > you eat a piece of chicken *and* cook the rest of your meal in chicken

> > fat, you are going to get a lot more chicken fat than if you just eat

> > the piece of chicken. Poultry fat is pretty high in PUFA, so if you

> > are going to add a fat or oil to your diet, I would use one that is

> > lower in PUFA.

> >

> > Chris

>

February 7, 2008

Your friend is a steaming pile of dietary dumbness. Do you want to

risk destroying your brain? Long-term veganism of several years

duration is a slow-acting way to destroy your brain. There's a reason

that the healthiest groups that Dr. Weston Price found were the ones

that ate the most meat and fish/shellfish. It's because that's the

basis of the ideal human diet. I can provide plenty of support for

this conclusion, as can Masterjohn and others. This board is

full of people who have tried veganism, found it lacking, and started

eating high-quality animal products, and starting getting better.

There have got to be at least a dozen or more people on this board who

fit that, including me.

mike

February 7, 2008

I may disagree with M. on this, but I think bone broth made from

free-range

chickens is one of the most nourishing and healing foods we can eat. In

addition to being

an age-old remedy, there is much modern research on its health benefits. Check

the

WAPF website for an article about bone broth that I believe appeared in the

journal a while

back. If you can't find it, let me know, and I can look it up for you.

It is, of course, essential to get your chickens entirely free-range and that is

difficult to do

in many areas. As you probably know, producers can label their chickens " free

range " even

if they never see the light of day. The requirement is that the chickens have

" access " to

the outdoors, which may be a small enclosed patio connected to the barn. This

is a far cry

from " free range " , but it's what qualifies.

K.

> >

> > Odd question... If a chicken was fed a low PUFA diet, would it be low

> > PUFA for us to eat?

> >

> > -Lana

> >

> > > But my recommendation about what is good to eat is not based on what

> > > you eat. I wouldn't eat poultry exclusively because it is

> > > considerably less nutritious than red meat and is higher in PUFA. In

> > > any case, I was addressing what to use for added fats and oils. If

> > > you eat a piece of chicken *and* cook the rest of your meal in chicken

> > > fat, you are going to get a lot more chicken fat than if you just eat

> > > the piece of chicken. Poultry fat is pretty high in PUFA, so if you

> > > are going to add a fat or oil to your diet, I would use one that is

> > > lower in PUFA.

> > >

> > > Chris

> >

February 7, 2008

,

> My wife says she is allergic to " iodine " in shellfish also. But I

> thought all allergies were to proteins, not minerals? And iodine is

> an essential mineral that we all need. Is it perhaps a protein that

> has iodine in it that causes these allergies?

Not all allergies are to proteins, but they are all to macromolecules.

Allergies can occur to virtually any macromolecule (proteins, fats,

carbohydrates, other large molecules), but they usually occur to

proteins.

However, iodine can iodinate certain proteins and cause them to change

their shape and act as allergens. So the allergy is not to iodine,

but if there is sufficient iodine to permit these changes then the

effect is similar to an iodine allergy.

Chris

February 7, 2008

Lana,

> Odd question... If a chicken was fed a low PUFA diet, would it be low

> PUFA for us to eat?

As far as I know, yes. However, the natural diet of a chicken is not

that low in PUFA I don't think, depending on what you are. Sally said

in the tropics they feed pigs coconut and their fat is very saturated

and low-PUFA. It would probably be the same with chickens.

Chris

February 7, 2008

Hi Kathy,

> What about the fat in chicken bone broth? My chicken bone broth always has

> an inch or more fat on the top and I always try to include that in my cup of

> broth because I thought it was rich in vitamins A and D because it is from

> free-range chickens.

You can use it if you want, I wouldn't. It has the extra disadvantage

of being considerably heated. I think it depends in part on your

economic costs, too. There are lots of other sources much richer in A

and the D is probably very minimal.

Chris

February 7, 2008

On 2/7/08, chriskjezp <chriskresser@...> wrote:

> I may disagree with M. on this, but I think bone broth made from

> free-range

> chickens is one of the most nourishing and healing foods we can eat.

You have no disagreement from me on that one, but bone broth is not

high-fat. The fat floats to the top and most people remove it. Even

people who wish to reuse the chicken fat usually remove it for

culinary reasons.

Chris

February 7, 2008

> However, this is still besides the point. There is no evidence that I

> know of that there is any specific benefit to the precursor fatty

> acids that is not obtained from the long-chain versions, so there is

> no reason we should want 80-90% precursor fatt acid and 10-20%

> long-chain end product. It is just a waste of total PUFA intake the

> way I see it. I think we should obtain the small amounts of the FAs

> we need and all things equal minimize total PUFA intake.

>

Well, the data seems to be contradictory here. I've seen a few studies

indicating that

excessive intake of derivatives, especially DHA, can be toxic and increase

oxidative stress

(Arnesen H N-3 fatty acids and revascularization procedures. Lipids. 2001;36

Suppl:S103-6. Review; Lord RS, Bralley JA. Polyunsaturated Fatty Acid-induced

Antioxidant Insuficiency. Integrative Medicine 1 (1): 38-44, 2002.)

I eat no processed foods and I don't eat in restaurants, nor do I eat nuts &

seeds, so my

intake of n-6 fatty acids is very, very low.

N-6 deficiency has been shown to cause many degenerative symptoms including: low

energy, dry skin, hair loss, kidney, liver and brain degeneration, attention

deficit disorder,

depression, poor wound healing, sterility, miscarriage, arthritis-like

conditions, heart beat

abnormalities that can lead to cardiac arrest and growth retardation in

children.

So, I think for someone in my situation (there are probably many of them on this

board,

that don't eat processed food or other dietary sources of n-6), a small amount

of nuts,

seeds and other dietary sources of n-6 is probably beneficial, not harmful - and

supplementation with a " parent " essential oil at a low/moderate dose is also

probably

helpful.

I agree that people on a more " standard " American diet should be restricting

their PUFA

intake, not increasing it.

K.

> [snip]

>

> > The only reason this is relevant in my mind is regarding the debate on

> > whether derivative

> > supplementation is necessary/beneficial at all. Some (like UDO, and the

> > people who make

> > the YES Parent Essential Oil supplement that Dr. Cowan recommends) suggest

> > not taking

> > fish oils at all, and taking the n-3/n-6 fatty acids in the form of

> > vegetable and seed oils.

> > Others, like WAPF, are big on CLO and fish oils. Of course CLO has other

> > benefits, in

> > particular Vitamin A & D.

>

> Right, and that is the main reason for taking CLO. Also, to get a

> gram of DHA/EPA from CLO you need to take roughly a gram of PUFA (one

> teaspoon CLO), whereas to get a gram from flax oil according to Udo's

> estimates you need to take 3-10 grams or so. Why bother raising the

> total PUFA intake?

>

> Your question seems to me to be framed backwards. It is a greater

> cost to have a higher PUFA intake, so the question is whether it is

> necessary/beneficial to supplement with the precursor fatty acids at

> all.

>

> Chris

>

February 7, 2008

I didn't realize TT was important. Is that available where I usually

order - Green Pastures? I get the gallon size for cost effectiveness.

What's the difference between TT and Green?

Thanks

On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Masterjohn wrote:

> If using TT coconut oil,

Parashis

artpages@...

portfolio pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

February 7, 2008

I eat 2 or 3 raw egg yolks a day for about 5 days a week! I depend on

it because I can't afford meat. What now? Also Butter?

On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:36 PM, Masterjohn wrote:

>> It should be pointed out that we do need a small percentage of our fat

>> intake to be from

>> healthy sources of PUFAs (Enig & Fallon and other researchers say

>> about 4%).

>> This can be

>> done by eating salmon, raw egg yolks, butter, CLO, etc. or it can

>> also be

>> taken in

>> supplement form using Udo's Oil or Yes Parent Essential Oils.

Parashis

artpages@...

portfolio pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

February 7, 2008

Ok, I did some checking and found some research from a Doctor and it said our

bodies get acid from just about everything, it tries to balance it but when it

gets really out of balance first the body will store the acid in Interstitial

fluid, the fluid that surrounds the cells and it will result in water retention

and congestion, then it begins to be stored in tissues, organs, glands- Acid

corrodes artery walls, liver produces excess cholesterol, to help the vessels

from being ruined, so cholesterol is what is keeping you alive, but as vessels

get smaller blood pressure goes up, and this is when they start giving drugs to

reduce it. Cholesterol is not cause of disease it is the symptom. Typically

with allopathic medicine they DX the symptoms rather than the cause. If the

cause of the acid build-up is not addressed the next step is cancer...._,_._,___

Katy Brezger

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9:13 AM

February 7, 2008

>

> Use freely -- butter, coconut oil, ruminant fats (e.g. lamb and beef

> fat), cocoa butter, macadamia nut oil.

>

> Use in moderation -- palm oil, olive oil, lard

>

> Avoid -- poultry fats, nut/seed/legume oils

i see that you say AVOID poultry fats. so, do you think we are better

off eating the skinless breast? i usually go in for dark meat with

skin, cooked in coconut oil. protein and fat in conjunction was the

presumed benefit, but is there something in poultry fat that i should

also be considering? thanks very much.

February 7, 2008

Sally Fallon definitely counsels against eating lean meats (like boneless

chicken breasts)

without their naturally occurring fats. Eating lean meat without fat can

deplete the body's

store of fat-soluble vitamins. I would stick with eating your dark meat chicken

with the

skin in coconut oil. Sounds delicious!

I don't believe that the fat in poultry should be avoided, and I don't think

M. is

saying that (although he can correct me if I'm mistaken). I believe he suggests

not using

poultry fat as an additional cooking fat.

I don't necessarily agree with that. WAPF recommends using goose & duck fat as

long as it

comes from free-range animals.

Here's some information on the lipid composition of various animal fats, from

the WAPF

site. Note that duck & goose fat are only 13% PUFA, and the proportion of

n-6:n-3

depends on what they've eaten. Sally does say that chicken fat is inferior to

duck & goose

fat, and that is probably due to its higher PUFA content and lower saturated fat

content.

Personally, when I make chicken broth I do not skim the fat off. Nor do I eat

skinless

chicken breasts (see above). If you are following the principles of the WAPF

diet, and

avoiding sources of oxidized PUFAs (fried, processed foods, etc.), then I do not

believe

that the amount of chicken fat you'll get by eating chicken or consuming broth

will do any

harm - on the contrary, it will likely do a lot of good.

K.

------

Chicken Fat is about 31% saturated, 49% monounsaturated (including moderate

amounts

of antimicrobial palmitoleic acid) and 20% polyunsaturated, most of which is

omega-6

linoleic acid, although the amount of omega-3 can be raised by feeding chickens

flax or

fish meal, or allowing them to range free and eat insects. Although widely used

for frying

in kosher kitchens, it is inferior to duck and goose fat, which were

traditionally preferred

to chicken fat in Jewish cooking.

Duck and Goose Fat are semisolid at room temperature, containing about 35%

saturated

fat, 52% monounsaturated fat (including small amounts of antimicrobial

palmitoleic acid)

and about 13% polyunsaturated fat. The proportion of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty

acids

depends on what the birds have eaten. Duck and goose fat are quite stable and

are highly

prized in Europe for frying potatoes.

>

> >

> > Use freely -- butter, coconut oil, ruminant fats (e.g. lamb and beef

> > fat), cocoa butter, macadamia nut oil.

> >

> > Use in moderation -- palm oil, olive oil, lard

> >

> > Avoid -- poultry fats, nut/seed/legume oils

>

> i see that you say AVOID poultry fats. so, do you think we are better

> off eating the skinless breast? i usually go in for dark meat with

> skin, cooked in coconut oil. protein and fat in conjunction was the

> presumed benefit, but is there something in poultry fat that i should

> also be considering? thanks very much.

>

February 7, 2008

> Well, the data seems to be contradictory here. I've seen a few studies

> indicating that

> excessive intake of derivatives, especially DHA, can be toxic and increase

> oxidative stress

> (Arnesen H N-3 fatty acids and revascularization procedures. Lipids. 2001;36

> Suppl:S103-6. Review; Lord RS, Bralley JA. Polyunsaturated Fatty

> Acid-induced

> Antioxidant Insuficiency. Integrative Medicine 1 (1): 38-44, 2002.)

Yes, but DHA and EPA appear to have some usefulness, whereas ALA does

not. They all increase oxidative stress -- if there is any

contradicting literature, it is probably due to what they are

comparing it against (i.e., are they comparing it to LA, which also

increases oxidative stress?) or what the concomitant antioxidants are

(i.e. are they feeding an oil with higher PUFA but also higher vitamin

E, etc?).

[snip]

> N-6 deficiency has been shown to cause many degenerative symptoms including:

> low

> energy, dry skin, hair loss, kidney, liver and brain degeneration, attention

> deficit disorder,

> depression, poor wound healing, sterility, miscarriage, arthritis-like

> conditions, heart beat

> abnormalities that can lead to cardiac arrest and growth retardation in

> children.

Right, and it is impossible to get n-6 deficiency on a whole foods

diet unless you have an enzyme defect and are consuming only LA rather

than preformed DGLA and AA from animal foods becuase the requirement

is so vastly lower than 4% of calories and is nearly unmeasurable if

you are eating liver.

> So, I think for someone in my situation (there are probably many of them on

> this board,

> that don't eat processed food or other dietary sources of n-6), a small

> amount of nuts,

> seeds and other dietary sources of n-6 is probably beneficial, not harmful -

> and

> supplementation with a " parent " essential oil at a low/moderate dose is also

> probably

> helpful.

I doubt it, since the requirement is far lower than what you would

need to get from an added oil, and is reduced by the types of foods

that people on this list tend to eat, like liver.

Chris

February 7, 2008

On 2/7/08, Parashis <artpages@...> wrote:

> I didn't realize TT was important. Is that available where I usually

> order - Green Pastures? I get the gallon size for cost effectiveness.

>

> What's the difference between TT and Green?

I didn't say it is important to use TT. I said if you do use TT, use

their gold-label product rather than green-label, because the latter

is made from dried coconut. All the other oils labeled " virgin " to my

knowledge are made from fresh coconut.

Chris

February 7, 2008

Katy,

> Ok, I did some checking and found some research from a Doctor and it said

> our bodies get acid from just about everything, it tries to balance it but

> when it gets really out of balance first the body will store the acid in

> Interstitial fluid, the fluid that surrounds the cells and it will result in

> water retention and congestion, then it begins to be stored in tissues,

> organs, glands- Acid corrodes artery walls, liver produces excess

> cholesterol, to help the vessels from being ruined, so cholesterol is what

> is keeping you alive, but as vessels get smaller blood pressure goes up, and

> this is when they start giving drugs to reduce it. Cholesterol is not cause

> of disease it is the symptom. Typically with allopathic medicine they DX

> the symptoms rather than the cause. If the cause of the acid build-up is

> not addressed the next step is cancer...._,_._,___

Accumulation of lipids in the arterial wall does not fix anything. It

worsens the disease process.

Chris

February 7, 2008

On 2/7/08, benyokohama <hungjury@...> wrote:

> i see that you say AVOID poultry fats. so, do you think we are better

> off eating the skinless breast? i usually go in for dark meat with

> skin, cooked in coconut oil. protein and fat in conjunction was the

> presumed benefit, but is there something in poultry fat that i should

> also be considering? thanks very much.

No, I think it is better to eat the skin, because it is rich in

collagen and other such goodies. I said to avoid using poultry fat as

an added fat or oil. In other words, if you are going to cook

something in some fat, or add some extra source of fat on top of

something else, use some low-PUFA fat instead of poultry fat.

Chris

February 7, 2008

Hi

> Here's some information on the lipid composition of various animal fats,

> from the WAPF

> site. Note that duck & goose fat are only 13% PUFA, and the proportion of

> n-6:n-3

> depends on what they've eaten. Sally does say that chicken fat is inferior

> to duck & goose

> fat, and that is probably due to its higher PUFA content and lower saturated

> fat content.

I guess I would put duck and goose fat in the " use with moderation "

category. If you use small amounts for certain dishes they go well

with, there can hardly be any harm, but if you are eating a high-fat

diet with a 13% PUFA fat as your main fat, you are going to go way

over the 4% of calories as PUFA that WAPF recommends, which I think is

a pretty generous allowance of PUFA.

Chris

February 7, 2008

> Yes, but DHA and EPA appear to have some usefulness, whereas ALA does

> not. They all increase oxidative stress -- if there is any

> contradicting literature, it is probably due to what they are

> comparing it against (i.e., are they comparing it to LA, which also

> increases oxidative stress?) or what the concomitant antioxidants are

> (i.e. are they feeding an oil with higher PUFA but also higher vitamin

> E, etc?).

That's a good distinction. I wasn't aware of the difference in comparison as a

factor.

> Right, and it is impossible to get n-6 deficiency on a whole foods

> diet unless you have an enzyme defect and are consuming only LA rather

> than preformed DGLA and AA from animal foods becuase the requirement

> is so vastly lower than 4% of calories and is nearly unmeasurable if

> you are eating liver.

would you mind pointing me towards the research that indicates the 4%

number is

too high? That would be very helpful.

> I doubt it, since the requirement is far lower than what you would

> need to get from an added oil, and is reduced by the types of foods

> that people on this list tend to eat, like liver.

Well, I suppose it depends on what people are eating. I can't tolerate organ

meats or red

meats at all. I also have trouble tolerating dark, leafy green vegetables

because of their

fiber content. (I have Crohn's disease, and my gut is very sensitive). Nor do

I eat nuts or

grains. Since these are the main dietary sources of PUFAs, I suspected I might

benefit

from a small dose of n-6:n-3 oil.

Thanks again for your responses. I'm enjoying the dialogue!

February 7, 2008

> would you mind pointing me towards the research that indicates the 4%

> number is

> too high? That would be very helpful.

You can look at the original Burr and Burr study from 1929 if you

want. The Journal of Biological Chemistry has their entire archives

free online and you should be able to find it through an

author/keyword search pretty quickly. For a more comprehensive

review, my Special Report will hopefully be out soon, though it keeps

getting delayed. Some of Ray Peat's writings are useful, though he

doesn't always provide enough detail to make his case to a skeptic in

my opinion.

> > I doubt it, since the requirement is far lower than what you would

> > need to get from an added oil, and is reduced by the types of foods

> > that people on this list tend to eat, like liver.

> Well, I suppose it depends on what people are eating. I can't tolerate

> organ meats or red

> meats at all. I also have trouble tolerating dark, leafy green vegetables

> because of their

> fiber content. (I have Crohn's disease, and my gut is very sensitive). Nor

> do I eat nuts or

> grains. Since these are the main dietary sources of PUFAs, I suspected I

> might benefit

> from a small dose of n-6:n-3 oil.

Good point regarding intolerances. What are you able to eat?

> Thanks again for your responses. I'm enjoying the dialogue!

You're welcome. Same here.

Chris

February 7, 2008

I am not getting this: >>>>wrote:Accumulation of lipids in the

arterial wall does not fix anything. It

worsens the disease process.

Chris<<<<<

from any of my medical sources, from Nutrition experts. For months now I've

been reading that Cholesterol is a response to weakened walls of blood vessels

and does indeed repair them by overlaying the weakened spots.