Re: Fats & Cholesterol

[Guest guest]

On 1/15/08, repent_kog_is_near <repent_kog_is_near@...> wrote:

> yes, it is the green label coconut oil from tropicaltraditions...

> the hdl also went up.. upto 78.. ldl is near 260..

In one well controlled study I looked at, when coconut oil (probably

refined, but they don't say) is compared to safflower oil, it tends to

raise total cholesterol, but the effect is more pronounced in men. In

men, the effect is more pronounced in LDL and in women the effect is

more pronounced in HDL.

I a study done in rats, when coconut oil was compared with peanut oil,

it lowered total and LDL cholesterol and protected it from oxidation.

Freshly made coconut oil (like the gold-label oil) was much more

effective than coconut oil made from dried coconut meat (like the

green-label oil).

I don't think that total or LDL cholesterol *per se* is a major

concern, but there are two things that are of some concern: a) why he

had a sudden metabolic shift and whether that indicates something

negative and the fact that all this LDL circulating around is quite

vulnerable to oxidation and thus could cause a lot of problems.

There are two things he might want to try: First, he could wait it out

another three months or so and get retested and see if the adjustment

was a temporary one. Second, he could try switching to the gold-label

coconut oil, since this is much richer in the important polyphenols

that not only reduce cholesterol levels apparently but more

importantly protect LDL from oxidation.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Thanks

interesting studies...

Now, they also take couple of 'hard-boiled' eggs each day.. that

would not be the culprit, would it?.. basically, they put the egg to

sink in boiling water for 20 minutes, and then peel off the outer

shell, after it is cooled down..

reg the coconut oil, i will pass the info.. to get the brand with the

most polyphenols.. do you recommend any other foods/lifestyle that

may help him keep the LDL from oxidizing?

4 tablespoons a day of coco oil..(+cooking) do you think that is

overboard?

regarding the question of metabolic shift, is there any tests he can

do related to that (blood work etc), if anything is wrong.

Thanks again, Chris..

-Dan.

>

> > yes, it is the green label coconut oil from tropicaltraditions...

> > the hdl also went up.. upto 78.. ldl is near 260..

>

> In one well controlled study I looked at, when coconut oil (probably

> refined, but they don't say) is compared to safflower oil, it tends

to

> raise total cholesterol, but the effect is more pronounced in men.

In

> men, the effect is more pronounced in LDL and in women the effect is

> more pronounced in HDL.

>

> I a study done in rats, when coconut oil was compared with peanut

oil,

> it lowered total and LDL cholesterol and protected it from

oxidation.

> Freshly made coconut oil (like the gold-label oil) was much more

> effective than coconut oil made from dried coconut meat (like the

> green-label oil).

>

> I don't think that total or LDL cholesterol *per se* is a major

> concern, but there are two things that are of some concern: a) why

he

> had a sudden metabolic shift and whether that indicates something

> negative and the fact that all this LDL circulating around is

quite

> vulnerable to oxidation and thus could cause a lot of problems.

>

> There are two things he might want to try: First, he could wait it

out

> another three months or so and get retested and see if the

adjustment

> was a temporary one. Second, he could try switching to the gold-

label

> coconut oil, since this is much richer in the important polyphenols

> that not only reduce cholesterol levels apparently but more

> importantly protect LDL from oxidation.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

> I take raw eggs/coconut oil daily. My last blood test LDL 200(too

> high) HDL 90. My doctor wants me on cholesterol drugs. Do think I should

> cut down eggs or cocotnut oil avoid taking durgs? Thanks. Helen

I wouldn't rush to do either. Consider possible causes of the lipid

levels first:

-- Have they always been like this, or did they go up when you

introduced eggs and coconut oil? Does high cholesterol run in your

family?

-- Do you have other signs of inflammation? For example, skin

inflammation or periodontitis (gum inflammation)? Chroniic

infections?

-- How is your magnesium intake?

-- Do you have any thyroid problems? Is it possible you have

subclinical hypothyroidism?

Ordinarily, a high HDL is considered good in the mainstream. The fact

that your HDL is so high would be viewed as a protective factor that

reduces the risk of the high LDL. However, someone on another list

said they read that HDL this high is a sign of inflammation and liver

problems, though this person did not have a journal reference.

It is not the LDL per se that you have to worry about, but oxidized

and glycated LDL. Eggs either have no effect on cholesterol or they

increase the size and buoyancy of the LDL particle and load it up with

carotenoids, which is protective. Coconut oil is low in easily

oxidized polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and high in polyphenols

that are highly effective in preventing LDL oxidation. So you don't

want to rush to eliminate this either. But, if you are using the

green-label TT oil, you should switch to the gold-label because it is

higher in polyphenols. Most virgin CO as far as I know is made from

fresh meat rather than dried, which is what you want.

Before ever trying a statin, try supplementing with magnesium. I'm

not sure what the necessary dose is, but magnesium is an inhibitor of

HMG CoA Reductase just like statins are. Unlike statins, though, it

is also a cofactor for other enzymes that can increase cholesterol

synthesis or otherwise regulate it, so it is less likely to have side

effects because it provides the body with what it needs to regulate

cholesterol rather than inhibiting it regardless of whether the body

wants it inhibited.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hyporthyroid? What does it anything to do with cholesterol? My FT3 was

very low(below normal range), Doctor priscribed Armour 60 mg. to me. Do I have

hyporthyroid? My doctor did not use this term and just handed me script of

Armour and wants me to get back check blood in three month. By the way, I am

also suffering hives everyday. My doctor wants me to see allergist. Does hive

also relate to hyporthyroidism? Thanks. Helen

Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

Hi Helen,

> I take raw eggs/coconut oil daily. My last blood test LDL 200(too

> high) HDL 90. My doctor wants me on cholesterol drugs. Do think I should

> cut down eggs or cocotnut oil avoid taking durgs? Thanks. Helen

I wouldn't rush to do either. Consider possible causes of the lipid

levels first:

-- Have they always been like this, or did they go up when you

introduced eggs and coconut oil? Does high cholesterol run in your

family?

-- Do you have other signs of inflammation? For example, skin

inflammation or periodontitis (gum inflammation)? Chroniic

infections?

-- How is your magnesium intake?

-- Do you have any thyroid problems? Is it possible you have

subclinical hypothyroidism?

Ordinarily, a high HDL is considered good in the mainstream. The fact

that your HDL is so high would be viewed as a protective factor that

reduces the risk of the high LDL. However, someone on another list

said they read that HDL this high is a sign of inflammation and liver

problems, though this person did not have a journal reference.

It is not the LDL per se that you have to worry about, but oxidized

and glycated LDL. Eggs either have no effect on cholesterol or they

increase the size and buoyancy of the LDL particle and load it up with

carotenoids, which is protective. Coconut oil is low in easily

oxidized polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and high in polyphenols

that are highly effective in preventing LDL oxidation. So you don't

want to rush to eliminate this either. But, if you are using the

green-label TT oil, you should switch to the gold-label because it is

higher in polyphenols. Most virgin CO as far as I know is made from

fresh meat rather than dried, which is what you want.

Before ever trying a statin, try supplementing with magnesium. I'm

not sure what the necessary dose is, but magnesium is an inhibitor of

HMG CoA Reductase just like statins are. Unlike statins, though, it

is also a cofactor for other enzymes that can increase cholesterol

synthesis or otherwise regulate it, so it is less likely to have side

effects because it provides the body with what it needs to regulate

cholesterol rather than inhibiting it regardless of whether the body

wants it inhibited.

Chris

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

There is a lot more to the story of Cholesterol and possible physical problems

resulting, I suggest The Water cure by Dr. Batmanghelidj, for some help. Also

the egg lobby simply didn't have the funds available when our congress was

deciding on the causes of Cholesterol as did the Beef/pork lobbies, It would be

much better for your lipid levels to eat free-range eggs as they are extremely

high in Lecithin which is a very effective lipid control, not soy [with it's

testosterone killing phyto-estrogens] either, use the eggs. Beef, especially

feed lot beef is very bad for your blood lipid levels. Pork? Well this White

meat is nearly all fat.

Now fats are another thing altogether. Saturated fats and EFA's are good for

you. It's the trans-fats and polyunsaturated manufactured lards that are not

healthy, did you know our brains are mostly fat?

Do not just believe [or as is probably the case; dis-believe] me, go research

it for yourself. I do not prescribe to the Party-line [what the

big-business/government put out] because so little of it is fact, I look for the

truth.

Katy Brezger

http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/

Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be

so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup.

" If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they

take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who

live under tyranny. "

~ Jefferson~

Re: Fats & Cholesterol

Hi Helen,

> I take raw eggs/coconut oil daily. My last blood test LDL 200(too

> high) HDL 90. My doctor wants me on cholesterol drugs. Do think I should

> cut down eggs or cocotnut oil avoid taking durgs? Thanks. Helen

I wouldn't rush to do either. Consider possible causes of the lipid

levels first:

-- Have they always been like this, or did they go up when you

introduced eggs and coconut oil? Does high cholesterol run in your

family?

-- Do you have other signs of inflammation? For example, skin

inflammation or periodontitis (gum inflammation)? Chroniic

infections?

-- How is your magnesium intake?

-- Do you have any thyroid problems? Is it possible you have

subclinical hypothyroidism?

Ordinarily, a high HDL is considered good in the mainstream. The fact

that your HDL is so high would be viewed as a protective factor that

reduces the risk of the high LDL. However, someone on another list

said they read that HDL this high is a sign of inflammation and liver

problems, though this person did not have a journal reference.

It is not the LDL per se that you have to worry about, but oxidized

and glycated LDL. Eggs either have no effect on cholesterol or they

increase the size and buoyancy of the LDL particle and load it up with

carotenoids, which is protective. Coconut oil is low in easily

oxidized polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and high in polyphenols

that are highly effective in preventing LDL oxidation. So you don't

want to rush to eliminate this either. But, if you are using the

green-label TT oil, you should switch to the gold-label because it is

higher in polyphenols. Most virgin CO as far as I know is made from

fresh meat rather than dried, which is what you want.

Before ever trying a statin, try supplementing with magnesium. I'm

not sure what the necessary dose is, but magnesium is an inhibitor of

HMG CoA Reductase just like statins are. Unlike statins, though, it

is also a cofactor for other enzymes that can increase cholesterol

synthesis or otherwise regulate it, so it is less likely to have side

effects because it provides the body with what it needs to regulate

cholesterol rather than inhibiting it regardless of whether the body

wants it inhibited.

Chris

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5:39 PM

[Guest guest]

I have to jump in here on the hives. I'm mildly hypothryoid and have

suffered from itchy - extrememly itchy - legs for about three months.

It's not really hives, though I do get tiny red bumps all over my legs

when the itch is active.

Does this sound anything like what you have?

-- In , Helen Wang <dingyung49@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hyporthyroid? What does it anything to do with cholesterol?

My FT3 was very low(below normal range), Doctor priscribed Armour 60

mg. to me. Do I have hyporthyroid? My doctor did not use this term

and just handed me script of Armour and wants me to get back check

blood in three month. By the way, I am also suffering hives everyday.

My doctor wants me to see allergist. Does hive also relate to

hyporthyroidism? Thanks. Helen

[Guest guest]

No, Mine is always in stripe shapes, red/itchy. It comes and disappears like

ghost in 5-10 mins, anytime/any places on my body. It happend sometimes after

eating/drinking, sometimes I did not eat/drink any,it just appeared out of

woods. Yesterday I went to ear doctor because my ear so itchy. She said I did

not have ear infection and more or less like hive/allergy symptoms and she

handed me samples of new drug XYZAL. I took 5 mg. last night. My hives gone in

10 mins. and I slept well and had difficult to get up in the morning to work.

threehearts0o0 <threehearts0o0@...> wrote: I have to jump in here

on the hives. I'm mildly hypothryoid and have

suffered from itchy - extrememly itchy - legs for about three months.

It's not really hives, though I do get tiny red bumps all over my legs

when the itch is active.

Does this sound anything like what you have?

-- In , Helen Wang <dingyung49@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hyporthyroid? What does it anything to do with cholesterol?

My FT3 was very low(below normal range), Doctor priscribed Armour 60

mg. to me. Do I have hyporthyroid? My doctor did not use this term

and just handed me script of Armour and wants me to get back check

blood in three month. By the way, I am also suffering hives everyday.

My doctor wants me to see allergist. Does hive also relate to

hyporthyroidism? Thanks. Helen

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Before ever trying a statin, try supplementing with magnesium. I'm

> not sure what the necessary dose is, but magnesium is an inhibitor

> of HMG CoA Reductase just like statins are. Unlike statins, though,

> it is also a cofactor for other enzymes that can increase

> cholesterol synthesis or otherwise regulate it, so it is less likely

> to have side effects because it provides the body with what it needs

> to regulate cholesterol rather than inhibiting it regardless of

> whether the body wants it inhibited.

To get extra magnesium by diet, daily consumption of peanuts has been

shown to raise serum magnesium levels:

http://www.peanut-institute.org/040703_PR.html

However, be sure to get organic peanuts grown in a dry climate, as

peanuts grown in wet climates are often contaminated with aflatoxin,

which is highly carcinogenic. Also, non-organic peanuts are grown

with lots of pesticides. Don't over-do the peanuts though, because

they are fairly high in omega-6 oil and too much is not good. You can

buy organic peanut butter like Maranatha and Arrowhead Mills that

comes from New Mexico peanuts, grown in a dry environment and you can

pour off the high omega-6 oil that collects at the top of the jar to

reduce the omega-6 dosage.

Almonds and brazil nuts are even higher in magnesium by weight,

although to optimize the magnesium availability, it may be necessary

to soak them (I'm not sure how much this affects the bio-availability

of magnesium).

Swiss chard and spinach are fairly high in magnesium, but I'm not sure

how bio-available it is.

Among animal foods, oysters are one of the highest in magnesium by

weight, but they are considerably lower than the vegetable sources

listed above. Sardines, with bones, are also relatively high. The

bio-availability may be significantly higher in animal foods, but I

haven't seen any data.

[Guest guest]

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> To get extra magnesium by diet, daily consumption of peanuts has

> been shown to raise serum magnesium levels:

> http://www.peanut-institute.org/040703_PR.html

Oh - how could I forget - for magnesium, one of the highest food

sources by weight is cocoa powder, with about 499 mg per 100 grams. I

like to blend raw organic unsweetened cocoa powder with raw milk, raw

cream, and raw eggs for a great morning smoothie

However, on a per calorie basis, swiss chard and spinach have higher

magnesium than cocoa powder but not much else.

[Guest guest]

On 1/16/08, webriter <webriter@...> wrote:

> are another thing altogether. Saturated fats and EFA's are good

> for you. It's the trans-fats and polyunsaturated manufactured lards that are

> not healthy, did you know our brains are mostly fat?

EFAs and polyunsaturated fats are the same thing.

Chris

[Guest guest]

oops I really blew that it should have read trans fats or hydrolyzed vegetable

oils.

Katy Brezger

http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/

Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be

so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup.

" If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they

take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who

live under tyranny. "

~ Jefferson~

Re: Fats & Cholesterol

On 1/16/08, webriter <webriter@...> wrote:

> are another thing altogether. Saturated fats and EFA's are good

> for you. It's the trans-fats and polyunsaturated manufactured lards that are

> not healthy, did you know our brains are mostly fat?

EFAs and polyunsaturated fats are the same thing.

Chris

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5:39 PM

[Guest guest]

On 1/16/08, webriter <webriter@...> wrote:

> oops I really blew that it should have read trans fats or hydrolyzed

> vegetable oils.

I would avoid all vegetable oils altogether.

Chris

[Guest guest]

I do, I only use coconut oil.

Katy Brezger

http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/

Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be

so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup.

" If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they

take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who

live under tyranny. "

~ Jefferson~

Re: Fats & Cholesterol

On 1/16/08, webriter <webriter@...> wrote:

> oops I really blew that it should have read trans fats or hydrolyzed

> vegetable oils.

I would avoid all vegetable oils altogether.

Chris

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5:39 PM

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> I would avoid all vegetable oils altogether.

Even palm oil and palm kernel oil? And of course coconut oil is also

technically a vegetable oil. Am I correct in assuming you're just

talking about conventional " vegetable " oils as they're usually

marketed -- i.e. corn oil, safflower oil, peanut oil, etc. etc. etc.

-- and not the highly saturated tropical oils which come from the

vegetable kingdom...?

-

[Guest guest]

,

> > I would avoid all vegetable oils altogether.

> Even palm oil and palm kernel oil?

No I guess I think of those as fruit oils or " tropical oils. " I guess

it's just terminology, but I meant the seed/bean oils.

> And of course coconut oil is also

> technically a vegetable oil. Am I correct in assuming you're just

> talking about conventional " vegetable " oils as they're usually

> marketed -- i.e. corn oil, safflower oil, peanut oil, etc. etc. etc.

> -- and not the highly saturated tropical oils which come from the

> vegetable kingdom...?

Yeah the PUFA ones.

Chris

[Guest guest]

If you really want to be technical, it's a fruit oil.

-jennifer

On Jan 16, 2008, at 6:53 PM, Idol wrote:

> Chris-

>

>> I would avoid all vegetable oils altogether.

>

> Even palm oil and palm kernel oil? And of course coconut oil is also

> technically a vegetable oil. Am I correct in assuming you're just

> talking about conventional " vegetable " oils as they're usually

> marketed -- i.e. corn oil, safflower oil, peanut oil, etc. etc. etc.

> -- and not the highly saturated tropical oils which come from the

> vegetable kingdom...?

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

> > Yeah I would eat peanut butter because you like it and for not much

> > other reason.

> yes, I do like peanut butter and therefore, I think that's a

> good reason to eat it. The copious vitamins and minerals are just a

> bonus

Well it is certainly better than something that doesn't have vitamins

and minerals, but from the range of whole foods it's not something I'd

select out as a health food, mostly because of the PUFA.

> BTW, peanut oil is almost half MUFA, not PUFA.

But the issue is not the proportion of PUFA in the peanut butter; it's

the proportion of PUFA in your total diet.

> The omega-6 PUFA is

> about one third and separates to the top of the organic peanut butter

> jar and that is what is poured off (or so I have read). The remainder

> of fat is saturated:

>

http://stay-healthy-enjoy-life.blogspot.com/2007/10/selecting-fats-and-oils-for-\

health.html

Where is the reference for pouring off?

> Peanut butter has vitamin E and resveratrol, which I'm guessing should

> help to keep the MUFA from oxidizing.

Right but you can get both of these from other sources without all the

PUFA. All unrefined oils contain antioxidants.

[snip]

> 188 calories

> 2.6g sfa

> 7.9g mufa

> 4.7g pufa (poured off)

Again I would like to see a reference that you are removing the PUFA

when you pour it off, and just how much you are removing.

If you follow the WAPF guidelines to stay within 4% of calories as

PUFA, that gives someone consuming 2000 calorie per day an allotment

of 8.8 grams of PUFA. Two tablespoons of peanut butter can fit within

that allotment, but if one is consuming eggs, olive oil, etc, it can

make it pretty tight.

For example, three eggs have 2.1 g PUFA. Three glasses of milk have

1.5 gram PUFA. Two tablespoons of butter have 0.8 g PUFA. A teaspoon

of cod liver oil has 2 g PUFA. These are relatively basic foods that

most WAPF folks eat, and if you add 2 tbsp of peanut butter (assuming

it has all 4.7 g PUFA), you're already over the top.

Interestingly, nutritiondata lists whole milk yogurt as having less

than half the PUFA that whole milk has, despite the same amount of

total fat. I wonder if that's because their samples used different

milks with different amounts of PUFA, or because the fermentation

reduces the PUFA.

Now, if you are right that you pour off a good portion of the PUFA,

that changes things, but I'd like to see a reliable reference for

that.

Chris

[Guest guest]

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> But the issue is not the proportion of PUFA in the peanut butter;

> it's the proportion of PUFA in your total diet.

yes, that's why I previously said it's not good to eat too many

peanuts (and that applies to real nuts as well).

> Where is the reference for pouring off?

IIRC, I saw a reference to pouring off the liquid oil on Mercola's web

site a couple of years ago. I don't think it had any references that

confirmed how much PUFA is removed by so doing.

> If you follow the WAPF guidelines to stay within 4% of calories as

> PUFA, that gives someone consuming 2000 calorie per day an allotment

> of 8.8 grams of PUFA. Two tablespoons of peanut butter can fit

> within that allotment, but if one is consuming eggs, olive oil, etc,

> it can make it pretty tight.

If you're eating plain peanuts, or real nuts, it is very easy to get

too much PUFA. I think that's one of the advantages of nut butters -

if you can pour off the PUFA. My guess is that since PUFA is

generally a liquid at room temperature, that most of the PUFA in the

peanut butter is removed by pouring off the liquid oil that rises to

the top. I doubt that all of it is removed and it is possible that

some of the liquid oil is MUFA, which can also be liquid at room

temperature. But I agree, it would be interesting to know about how

much PUFA is removed. I don't have time to check right now. I'll

check later, though I'm not optimistic on finding anything reliable.

> Interestingly, nutritiondata lists whole milk yogurt as having less

> than half the PUFA that whole milk has, despite the same amount of

> total fat. I wonder if that's because their samples used different

> milks with different amounts of PUFA, or because the fermentation

> reduces the PUFA.

My guess would be that it's from differing amounts in the original

milk. But, if not, that would be a big plus for fermented milk.

> Now, if you are right that you pour off a good portion of the PUFA,

> that changes things, but I'd like to see a reliable reference for

> that.

Me too

[Guest guest]

What would gum inflammation say about one's cholesterol ?

Thanks

-Dan.

>

> Hi Helen,

>

> > I take raw eggs/coconut oil daily. My last blood test LDL

200(too

> > high) HDL 90. My doctor wants me on cholesterol drugs. Do

think I should

> > cut down eggs or cocotnut oil avoid taking durgs? Thanks. Helen

>

> I wouldn't rush to do either. Consider possible causes of the lipid

> levels first:

>

> -- Have they always been like this, or did they go up when you

> introduced eggs and coconut oil? Does high cholesterol run in your

> family?

> -- Do you have other signs of inflammation? For example, skin

> inflammation or periodontitis (gum inflammation)? Chroniic

> infections?

> -- How is your magnesium intake?

> -- Do you have any thyroid problems? Is it possible you have

> subclinical hypothyroidism?

>

> Ordinarily, a high HDL is considered good in the mainstream. The

fact

> that your HDL is so high would be viewed as a protective factor that

> reduces the risk of the high LDL. However, someone on another list

> said they read that HDL this high is a sign of inflammation and

liver

> problems, though this person did not have a journal reference.

>

> It is not the LDL per se that you have to worry about, but oxidized

> and glycated LDL. Eggs either have no effect on cholesterol or they

> increase the size and buoyancy of the LDL particle and load it up

with

> carotenoids, which is protective. Coconut oil is low in easily

> oxidized polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and high in polyphenols

> that are highly effective in preventing LDL oxidation. So you don't

> want to rush to eliminate this either. But, if you are using the

> green-label TT oil, you should switch to the gold-label because it

is

> higher in polyphenols. Most virgin CO as far as I know is made from

> fresh meat rather than dried, which is what you want.

>

> Before ever trying a statin, try supplementing with magnesium. I'm

> not sure what the necessary dose is, but magnesium is an inhibitor

of

> HMG CoA Reductase just like statins are. Unlike statins, though, it

> is also a cofactor for other enzymes that can increase cholesterol

> synthesis or otherwise regulate it, so it is less likely to have

side

> effects because it provides the body with what it needs to regulate

> cholesterol rather than inhibiting it regardless of whether the body

> wants it inhibited.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Dan,

> I do not recognize this (apob)..

>

> Can you see if this is a part of the results of the VAP Test? (which I

> have recommended him to take)...

>

> http://www.atherotech.com/content/files/pdfs/vap_report_sample.pdf

It's the sixth measurement from the top. ApoB-100 is the protein that

weaves together the LDL particle, as well as IDL and VLDL.

I'm not sure what the significance of that is, but it might be a rough

measure of particle size (I think there is one ApoB-100 protein per

particle, so more of it would mean more smaller particles and less of

it would mean fewer larger particles).

In my opinion, the most valuable measurements on there are probably

the LDL size and the lp(a). You want a pattern a for the first one

and a low lp(a) measurement.

Lp(a) appears to be a general indicator of the level of oxidized

phospholipids. It correlates with risk but it's probably the oxidized

phospholipids and not the lp(a) that is dangerous.

LDL size is an indicator of the vulnerability of the LDL to oxidation

and accumulation. The smaller, denser type (pattern is more

vulnerable to oxidation and accumulation and the larger, more buoyant

type (pattern A) is resistant to oxidation and accumulation.

I don't know off the top of my head any way to boost particle size

except by eating eggs.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 1/17/08, repent_kog_is_near <repent_kog_is_near@...> wrote:

> What would gum inflammation say about one's cholesterol ?

Well first of all it's a good predictor of heart disease risk. But,

regarding cholesterol, inflammatory compounds upregulate HMG CoA

reductase, which is the enzyme that statins inhibit, and inhibit

squalene synthase. This causes an increase in cholesterol production,

but a five-fold greater increase in mevalonate production.

You can see from my flow chart that mevalonate can be used for both

the production of cholesterol and the activation of Rho:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Rho-Activation.html

By simultaneously stimulating HMG CoA reductase and inhibiting

squalene synthase, inflammatory chemicals are very likely causing a

big increase in Rho activation. This causes a stress response wherein

actin stress fibers are formed and the cell's structure is rearranged

to increase the capacity for compaction and tensile strength.

For some as yet unknown reason, Rho activation causes a massive

inhibition of nictric oxide synthase, the enzyme that makes nitric

oxide. Nitric oxide not only prevents LDL from oxidizing, but, more

importantly, prevents atherosclerosis and heart disease at virtually

every step along the way, as described in the above link.

So, if you have high cholesterol *and* gum inflammation (or other

signs of systemic inflammation), that probably suggests that the high

cholesterol is secondary to the inflammation and that your bigger

problem is the activation of Rho and inhibition of nitric oxide,

something that doesn't show up on the tests. So what you really want

to do is address the gum inflammation.

Chris

[Guest guest]

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> So I think the main effect of pouring off would be to reduce the total

> fat. And that would be good, because you'd be reducing the total PUFA

> you're consuming too -- you'd basically be making a low-fat (or

> lower-fat) peanut butter. I doubt you're *selectively* removing PUFA,

> but you're certainly removing some of it. How much, I'm not sure. I

> bet the rest of the peanut butter is still pretty fatty.

I haven't been able to find any reliable references that show

how much omega-6 PUFA is in the oil that rises to the top of organic

peanut butter. However, wouldn't triglycerides with two or three

PUFAs be slightly less dense, and therefore more buoyant that

triglycerides with one or no PUFAs. I also noticed that the oil that

I poured off of a peanut butter jar recently was about 10-15% of the

volume of the jar. It just so happens that omega-6 is about 15% by

weight for peanut butter. This could just be coincidence. But, maybe

identifying the temperature at which the oil solidifies could shed

some light on it's constituency? Next time I'll pour the oil into a

cup and put it in the fridge to see if it solidifies, and if not, then

into the freezer.

[Guest guest]

Chris

This friend of mind has been struggling/battling Ulcer(stomach)/H-

pylori the last several months. It is better now. But could this

inflmmation of the stomach have the same effect on the Rho activation

as the gum inflammation case you gave.

Thanks

-Dan.

>

> > What would gum inflammation say about one's cholesterol ?

>

> Well first of all it's a good predictor of heart disease risk. But,

> regarding cholesterol, inflammatory compounds upregulate HMG CoA

> reductase, which is the enzyme that statins inhibit, and inhibit

> squalene synthase. This causes an increase in cholesterol

production,

> but a five-fold greater increase in mevalonate production.

>

> You can see from my flow chart that mevalonate can be used for both

> the production of cholesterol and the activation of Rho:

>

> http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Rho-Activation.html

>

> By simultaneously stimulating HMG CoA reductase and inhibiting

> squalene synthase, inflammatory chemicals are very likely causing a

> big increase in Rho activation. This causes a stress response

wherein

> actin stress fibers are formed and the cell's structure is

rearranged

> to increase the capacity for compaction and tensile strength.

>

> For some as yet unknown reason, Rho activation causes a massive

> inhibition of nictric oxide synthase, the enzyme that makes nitric

> oxide. Nitric oxide not only prevents LDL from oxidizing, but, more

> importantly, prevents atherosclerosis and heart disease at virtually

> every step along the way, as described in the above link.

>

> So, if you have high cholesterol *and* gum inflammation (or other

> signs of systemic inflammation), that probably suggests that the

high

> cholesterol is secondary to the inflammation and that your bigger

> problem is the activation of Rho and inhibition of nitric oxide,

> something that doesn't show up on the tests. So what you really

want

> to do is address the gum inflammation.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hi &

I recommended the VAP test for my friend. So he did find the apob.

It was found at 136 mg/dl. (recommended to be less than 109).

Is apob a very key number in the Cholesterol number game?

His other numbers were found as

LDL-C 200 (Lp(a)-9, IDL-16, Real LDL- 175)

HDL-C 61 (HDL2 - 15, HDL3- 46)

VLD-C 16

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Total 277

Triglycerides Direct 62

Remnant LPS(IDL + VLDL3) 26

VLDL-3 (Small Remnant) 10

CHOL/HDL Ratio 4.54

To double check the results, he also took a blood work with the

doctor (it does not have the breakdown as in the above). The numbers

for that are

LDL-C 181

HDL-C 79

VLD-C 10

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Total 270

Triglycerides 48

VLDL-3 (Small Remnant) 10

CHOL/HDL Ratio 3.42

Thanks for any input

-Dan.

>

> Dan,

>

> > I do not recognize this (apob)..

> >

> > Can you see if this is a part of the results of the VAP Test?

(which I

> > have recommended him to take)...

> >

> > http://www.atherotech.com/content/files/pdfs/vap_report_sample.pdf

>

> It's the sixth measurement from the top. ApoB-100 is the protein

that

> weaves together the LDL particle, as well as IDL and VLDL.

>

> I'm not sure what the significance of that is, but it might be a

rough

> measure of particle size (I think there is one ApoB-100 protein per

> particle, so more of it would mean more smaller particles and less

of

> it would mean fewer larger particles).

>

> In my opinion, the most valuable measurements on there are probably

> the LDL size and the lp(a). You want a pattern a for the first one

> and a low lp(a) measurement.

>

> Lp(a) appears to be a general indicator of the level of oxidized

> phospholipids. It correlates with risk but it's probably the

oxidized

> phospholipids and not the lp(a) that is dangerous.

>

> LDL size is an indicator of the vulnerability of the LDL to

oxidation

> and accumulation. The smaller, denser type (pattern is more

> vulnerable to oxidation and accumulation and the larger, more

buoyant

> type (pattern A) is resistant to oxidation and accumulation.

>

> I don't know off the top of my head any way to boost particle size

> except by eating eggs.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

> In addition, the theory that oxidized LDL causes atherosclerosis is also

> incomplete and not

> entirely supported by the data. Some studies have indicated an association

> between high

> levels of oxidized LDL and a significantly increased risk of heart attack,

> regardless of total

> LDL levels. (Holvoet P, et al. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol.

> 2003;32:1444-1448; Holvoet

> P, et al. Diabetes. 20004;53:1068-1073)

Yes, the total amount of oxidized LDL-associated phospholipids is a

huge predictor of risk, about eight times greater than LDL.

> Yet the Heart Protection Study (5 years, 10,000 patients) demonstrated " no

> evidence of

> any benefit from antioxidant vitamins " , which would be expected if

> oxidization of LDL was

> the cause of CHD (Kmietowicz, Z. Statins are the new aspirin, Oxford

> researchers say. BMJ

> 2001;323:1145)

Were the antioxidants effective at reducing LDL oxidation? The study

would not be meaningful to the theory at all otherwise.

> If the endothelium had receptors for oxidized LDL, then oxidized LDL would

> be absorbed

> through all artery walls everywhere and we would not see discreet plaques

> forming - just

> general thickening of the artery wall. This is not the case.

The issue is not what receptors the endothelium expresses, but what

receptors the macrophages that embed themselves in the endothelium

express. They take up oxidized LDL and glycated LDL at a rapid rate

through scavenger receptors but do not take up non-oxidized LDL. The

uptake of oxidized LDL by macrophages generates all kinds of

inflammatory cascades characteristic of atherosclerosis.

> The fact that plaques form in discreet locations lends credence to the

> " response to injury "

> hypothesis, which is becoming more widely accepted and is very well

> supported by the

> data. This theory suggests that it is an injury to the epithelial wall

> (lining of the artery)

> that causes plaques to form and promotes heart attacks.

This was one of the first theories investigated and was set back by a

number of early findings, such as that directly inducing injuries to

the vessel walls did not produce atherosclerosis in the absence of

hyperlipidemia, but aggravated atherosclerosis in its presence.

> Proven risk factors

> for such an

> injury include: nutrient deficiencies, poor glycemic control (insulin

> resistance), cigarette

> smoking, homocysteine, nitric oxide depletion, high iron levels, microbial

> infection,

> dietary trans fatty acids, high PUFA intake, and excessive refined

> carbohydrate intake

> (which promotes poor glycemic control).

Oxidized LDL causes nitric oxide depletion; poor glycemic control

causes LDL glycation; high PUFA intake causes LDL oxidation. So these

risk factors are not actually teasing out the response-to-injury

hypothesis from the oxidized lipid hypothesis, but instead are showing

the convergence of both hypotheses.

> It is still of course wise to avoid foods and other factors that promote

> oxidization, since

> free radicals have many proven ill effects on the body. In spite of the

> commonly held

> belief, saturated fats are much better for heart health than PUFAs. I could

> show you reams

> of data on that (actually, if you're interested you can download my

> presentation at

> http://chriskresser.com/research/cholesterol_class.pdf), but based on your

> presence here

> I'm guessing you already know that.

I certainly agree with that -- which is consistent with the oxidized

LDL hypothesis as well, since PUFAs are the first target of oxidation

in the LDL particle.

Chris