Re: healthy bodyfat for men

[Guest guest]

>> Well, they are ok, if you take care of your rotator

>> cuffs, but I basically don't do them anymore. For one

>> thing, I mostly do Olympic Lifting and bench presses

>> cause problems for people doing the Snatch.

>

> I think the point is a) it's fun and it gives you " a chest. "

Yes I can see it as sport and as way to shape your chest, which is why

I still do them moderately :-)

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:21 PM, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> Yes I can see it as sport and as way to shape your chest, which is why

> I still do them moderately :-)

>

>

Ah...just so I don't get the same response I got on BP for using

" boiling " in a less than literal way, what I mean by sport is not

competing, but sport as in " fun " :-)

[Guest guest]

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Masterjohn

<chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

>> Judging by his picture it looks like he could use a few bench presses :-)

>

> I can't tell because he's lifting his arms up. I think I have a

> half-decent chest, and had a decent one a couple years ago, but it

> pretty much disappears if I stretch my arms up.

You could be right about his chest, but from other pictures I have

seen it seems fairly small, but then his pictures are never really

clear.

>> To be honest with you, Ori looks weird to me. While nicely muscled, I

>> don't think I have ever seen a clear straight shot of him, and his

>> skin looks like it might be bad.

>

> Yeah, a lot of his pics are dark. He seems to slouch forward too,

> which makes it even more difficult to get a good look at him. But

> he's clearly very cut, and I was just commenting about his abs.

Okay

> I guess the question is, why can't you bulk up on WD but can bulk up

> on every-other-day fasting you describe below? Does that pose a

> danger to mass gains?

I don't know about the every other day fasting but Leangains certainly

believes you can bulk up on his 16 hour fast plan. Judging by his

picture it looks like its true. I don't plan on trying either one so I

will never personally know.

>> The WD tradition really is a communal meal

>> among warriors, but by myself, at least for me, it sucks, to put it

>> mildly.

>

> Hmm. I think it would be harder to do in a social context because

> you'd have to convince everyone else to do it. I'd much rather cook

> with someone I'm in love with, but not being in love with anyone I'll

> settle for cooking by myself, which I kind of like. And it's good

> practice :-)

When I said married/family I took being in love as a given :-)

>> 2. It meant meal times were basically the end of my night. Big huge

>> meal, ready to do nothing but vegetate, watch a movie, surf the net,

>> etc. Not good unless I started eating at 9:00 pm or beyond (which I

>> did a lot).

>

> Wow, you go to bed late. My problem was it wasn't convenient enough

> to start eating early enough. I'd rather go to bed 10-11:00, and I'd

> rather go 2.5-3 hours between my meal and bed time, especially a large

> meal like that.

Right, it wasn't convenient to begin eating early, like 5:00 pm to do

it the way he suggested, at least during the week. So I often ate late

and usually had two hours between my meal and bedtime around midnight.

>> 3. It was way too much food in terms of the perception of others, and

>> that does play a role in my life. Kind of like a priest rolling around

>> in Jaguar that he bought with his side Internet business. Nothing

>> inherently wrong with it but he is creating battles and perceptions he

>> is not going to win.

>

> I got invited to dinner to a friend's house when I was on the WD and I

> think I ate most of his meat whereas he was expecting lots of

> leftovers. He made references to it for a while, me eating all his

> meat on that crazy WD. lol.

LOL!

>

>> 4. I gradually began to eat less and less anyway.

>>

>> 5. It is a disaster if you don't consistently exercise.

>

> What sort of disaster?

Weight gain

>> Finally I was more interested in the every other day fasting he

>> alludes to in the book because I wanted to mimic how Orthodox Monks

>> fast, which is MonWedFr (although Monks are on the 16 hour plan as

>> mentioned below).

>

> Liquid fasting 16 hours on non-fast days? Are you sure? Does it vary

> from monastery to monastery?

Although I'm sure the practice varies, it would be 16 hours on

MonWedFri. I'm sure you know this but Mondays is a fast day for Monks

and they never eat meat on any day.

> Well the every-other-day plan is similar to the rodent studies that

> have been done, but in those, they ate almost twice as much on the

> eating days.

>

> Now can people bulk up on this diet, eating half as much food? Sounds

> unlikely to me.

I don't know and I'm not aware of anyone trying to do that.

>> " My take on IF shortens the fasting period down to 16 hours - in my

>> opinion, an ideal compromise between getting the best out of the

>> fasting, without the negatives that may follow with a longer fast.

>> This leaves eight hours as your eating window, in which myself and

>> most of my clients, eat three meals, leaving room for proper pre - and

>> post workout nutrition. I should note that I cycle calorie intake

>> depending on where the current priority lies (fat loss, recomposition

>> or lean mass gain). However, regardless of goals, the absolute

>> majority of the day's calorie intake is to be ingested in the post

>> workout window. In my experience, this may have a nutrient

>> partitioning effect which makes it possible to gain, or maintain,

>> muscle even on a weekly calorie deficit, or when dieting to very low

>> bodyfat levels.

>

> Interesting. But aren't there benefits to exercising on an empty

> stomach, that you referred to? I see the benefit to bulking up by

> having some protein before the workout -- maybe some type of

> pre-digested pure protein supplement, or some fat-free fermented dairy

> or something to supply the aminos? On the other hand, I usually do

> three hours after eating for my " empty stomach " workout, and glycogen

> might not be replete at 16 hours, even though it is supposedly mostly

> liver glycogen that gets used up during fasting whereas muscle

> glycogen is used up during physical activity.

Well /Leangains does have a pre-workout meal which he describes

in the link I posted, but he is trying to bulk up while keeping most

of the benefits of IF.

>> So two days a week water or lemon water for at least 24 hours, and the

>> rest of the week eat and drink to my hearts content. It is very

>> freeing. I haven't had to change a thing. Now I am just aware there

>> are body composition benefits (among others) as well.

>

> So what are the composition benefits? Are you lower in bodyfat?

Yes

> Is

> it as easy to gain mass if you are interested in that?

As easy? That probably varies from individual to individual. But I

seem to be able to gain muscle while following such a routine.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

> Now this guy is flexing his abs and sucking in his gut, right?

Or its that residual muscle tension that Connie was talking about :-)

There are other pictures at his blog that show him walking on the

beach. But they are at a distance and not very clear. In one he looks

cut (where he is walking with his wife) and the other he looks

smoother in the ab area.

> If so,

> his abs are about 30% better than mine. I'd like to see a picture of

> someone with this with really nice abs who is completely relaxed and

> letting their gut hang loose, and breathing healthily through their

> lower abdomen. Does anyone have a flat stomach when they are not

> contracting their abs or sucking them in? If I stand up very straight

> with my shoulders back, mine is almost flat if I'm not inhaling, or

> not doing so correctly, but my lower abs still come out at an angle a

> little bit.

Maybe TB, she seems pretty lean. Has she posted her pics over on the

Chapter site yet?

Not me, but now that I'm playing basketball again I expect that to

eventually be the case. And a lot of the guys I play with have

stomachs that are absolutely flat without any sucking in. It is one

reason they love to play skins versus shirts...oooh the vanity of it

all :-)))

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

>> Well, being a bodybuilding guru and all, he thought his physique style

>> was pretty hot and wild.

>

> Yeah, but he looks like a bodybuilder instead of a person.

That is because he **was** a bodybuilder.

> Do you

> train to look like that?

Based on my posts here over the years you should already know the

answer to that :-)

I posted his pic in response to 's post just to give everyone a

glimpse of what he looked it. His muscle isolation techniques were

very effective.

> If I were to look equivalently muscular, I

> would want my lats half the size and my lower abs equally developed as

> my upper abs, so that they come out to the same point, depth-wise.

It has been a long time since I read his book (originally published in

the 1980's), but IIRC Vince thought wide lats and a very well

developed chest was something very aesthetic and part of " unleashing

the wild physique " without having to pay attention to every bodypart

in minute detail.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

--- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> I posted his pic in response to 's post just

> to give everyone a

> glimpse of what he looked it. His muscle isolation

> techniques were

> very effective.

I agree with all that has been said, regarding Vince

Gironda. He was wrong about squats. He also was not

into " big " but more into symmetry. Quite frankly

that's not my cup of tea. I like to be strong, not

just look strong. Different strokes for different

folks.

That said, the man was WAY ahead of his time in many

ways. He advocated raw milk, criticised the high

carbohydrate diet as it was becoming popular,

criticized those who were freaking out about

cholesterol (he recognized tricglycerides were the

real culprit), etc. etc.

All this and more in the 1950s and 1960s.

-

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

-WB Yeats

[Guest guest]

>> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/high-fat-diet-no-cardio-washboard-abs/

>

> Now this guy is flexing his abs and sucking in his gut, right? If so,

> his abs are about 30% better than mine.

The claims to be at 8% bodyfat. If he is he probably doesn't need to

suck in his gut.

It also looks to me like he has what I call PUFA-skin, i.e. based on

the appearance of his skin it would appear that too many of his

calories are coming from PUFA's, even though he eats a high fat diet.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

>> Butt and back huh? All hail the snatch <g>

>

> Yeah, pretty much.

While I don't have any challenges in the butt area, the first thing I

notice whenever I start doing snatches regularly is the dense

muscularity I develop in my back. I don't immediately get bigger but I

do get much harder and leaner.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

> I don't do kettlebells when I'm doing a gym workout. I alternate

> rather than overlap. So I'll be doing gym till I plateau probably,

> then kettlebell for a few weeks, and so on. Chinups and dips seem

> like opposites to me, whereas rows seem like the opposite of the

> benchpress.

I personally don't do dips. I just included them because you mentioned

them as an exercise you do. I like kettlebells on my " off " days as a

nice way of active recovery.

>> With rubber bumpers on a platform? IMO, too hard to learn any other

>> way. And once you get beyond the light weights, you need to be able to

>> drop them if you value your shoulders. Also, I don't think you can

>> really acquire the proper technique without a trainer.

>

> Not sure what rubber bumpers are.

Rubber weights used for Olympic lifting. All the plates are the same

size as the 45Ib plates even though they come in various weights. You

can drop these from the top of the snatch or the clean and jerk

without much noise and without damage to the platform or floor.

> I felt like I had it down pretty

> well though. I don't remember whether I asked for a trainer's help or

> not. Seemed like an extension of clean and jerks with the kettlebell.

Okay, but if you ever get into them I wouldn't try going heavy until I

had a few sessions with a good instructor, i.e. someone who is

actively involved in the lifts.

>> So why would I add an exercise I don't like to offset an exercise that

>> I think is functionally useless (although it can create some nice

>> aesthetically pleasing lines for both men and women)? :-)

>

> Because it can create some nice aesthetically pleasing lines for both

> men and women. :-)

LOL!

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

,

> The claims to be at 8% bodyfat. If he is he probably doesn't need to

> suck in his gut.

I don't understand why abdominal fat has anything to do with the need

to suck in his gut. I would be interested in other opinions on this.

But as far as I can tell, I have very little fat on my abdomen.

Essentially, I have no pinchable fat, and only enough fat to hide my

ab definition 30-50% more than his is hidden. If I completely relax

my abdomen, I still have some visible ab definition, BUT I do not feel

like my gut is flat. I feel like if I stand up straight and pull my

shoulders back, it is 80% but not completely flat if I am exhaled, but

when I inhale, if I inhale abdominally which is the correct way to

breath, my gut looks about as far from flat as it can get.

So, to some extent, I think having a flat stomach is about breathing

wrong through the chest instead of through the bottom of the abdomen.

But I also think it must be much more about stomach size and maybe

intestinal gas or something more than it is about abdominal fat. I

mean, it should be clear by the look of a gut whether the lack of

flatness is occurring on one side of the abdominal muscle or the

other. If I can pinch the lack of flatness as a piece of flab in

front of my abdominal muscle, then yeah I definitely need to lose

abdominal fat. But if my muscle is basically coming out to my skin

and and my gut isn't flat, whatever is making it not flat must be

behind the muscle.

Right?

> It also looks to me like he has what I call PUFA-skin, i.e. based on

> the appearance of his skin it would appear that too many of his

> calories are coming from PUFA's, even though he eats a high fat diet.

What about his skin appearance indicates this? The only things I

notice are a) he looks like he got a recent sunburn and he has some

wrinkles on his abs that look like he recently lost some abdominal fat

and still has the skin from it.

I don't think it's a case of " even though. " If you eat a high-fat

diet, you're more likely to overdo the PUFAs. For example, if you ate

a diet that was 60% lard you'd be getting way too much PUFA, but if

you ate a diet that was 10% lard and 10% butter you'd be fine.

Chris

[Guest guest]

--- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> I personally don't do dips. I just included them

> because you mentioned

> them as an exercise you do. I like kettlebells on my

> " off " days as a

> nice way of active recovery.

>

Kettlebells are good, except when used too often for

high-reps, IMHO. I think it is no coincidence that

Pavel Tsatsouline who touts kettlebells has bum elbows

nowadays.

However, there are some great kettlebell exercises.

Swings just fry my hamstrings. Speaking of ab

exercises, now Turkish Get-ups is a killer exercise.

Have you ever done those?

-

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

-WB Yeats

[Guest guest]

,

> Rubber weights used for Olympic lifting. All the plates are the same

> size as the 45Ib plates even though they come in various weights. You

> can drop these from the top of the snatch or the clean and jerk

> without much noise and without damage to the platform or floor.

>

>

Didn't watch the video yet, but I think that's what they have at this

gym because the plates feel like rubber. I suppose that would explain

the subtle nasty smell that seems to emanate from the weight racks.

>> I felt like I had it down pretty

>> well though. I don't remember whether I asked for a trainer's help or

>> not. Seemed like an extension of clean and jerks with the kettlebell.

> Okay, but if you ever get into them I wouldn't try going heavy until I

> had a few sessions with a good instructor, i.e. someone who is

> actively involved in the lifts.

Ok. I don't think I was going very heavy, certainly not anywhere near

as heavy as squat or deadlift.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Pavel recommends low reps and is not taken seriously any longer by the serious

kettlebell community. I don't think that you're correct about high rep

kettlebell exercises.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Seay <entheogens@...>

>

> --- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

> > I personally don't do dips. I just included them

> > because you mentioned

> > them as an exercise you do. I like kettlebells on my

> > " off " days as a

> > nice way of active recovery.

> >

>

>

> Kettlebells are good, except when used too often for

> high-reps, IMHO. I think it is no coincidence that

> Pavel Tsatsouline who touts kettlebells has bum elbows

> nowadays.

>

> However, there are some great kettlebell exercises.

> Swings just fry my hamstrings. Speaking of ab

> exercises, now Turkish Get-ups is a killer exercise.

> Have you ever done those?

>

> -

>

> Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

> Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

> The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

> The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

> The best lack all conviction, while the worst

> Are full of passionate intensity.

>

> -WB Yeats

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I don't understand why abdominal fat has anything to do with the need

> to suck in his gut. I would be interested in other opinions on this.

> But as far as I can tell, I have very little fat on my abdomen.

> Essentially, I have no pinchable fat, and only enough fat to hide my

> ab definition 30-50% more than his is hidden. If I completely relax

> my abdomen, I still have some visible ab definition, BUT I do not feel

> like my gut is flat. I feel like if I stand up straight and pull my

> shoulders back, it is 80% but not completely flat if I am exhaled, but

> when I inhale, if I inhale abdominally which is the correct way to

> breath, my gut looks about as far from flat as it can get.

> So, to some extent, I think having a flat stomach is about breathing

> wrong through the chest instead of through the bottom of the abdomen.

> But I also think it must be much more about stomach size and maybe

> intestinal gas or something more than it is about abdominal fat.

Then I misunderstood what you originally said. Maybe you need a high

enema or colonic? :-)

>> It also looks to me like he has what I call PUFA-skin, i.e. based on

>> the appearance of his skin it would appear that too many of his

>> calories are coming from PUFA's, even though he eats a high fat diet.

>

> What about his skin appearance indicates this? The only things I

> notice are a) he looks like he got a recent sunburn and he has some

> wrinkles on his abs that look like he recently lost some abdominal fat

> and still has the skin from it.

His skin looks scaly, wrinkled and dry (not smooth and well nourished)

like many high PUFA eaters I know who otherwise have a pretty good

diet. It seems to be exacerbated with lots of sun and high PUFA's.

> I don't think it's a case of " even though. " If you eat a high-fat

> diet, you're more likely to overdo the PUFAs. For example, if you ate

> a diet that was 60% lard you'd be getting way too much PUFA, but if

> you ate a diet that was 10% lard and 10% butter you'd be fine.

I think you are overanalyzing this. I generally assume, correctly or

incorrectly, when health oriented people say they are on a high fat

diet they mean high saturated fat, since general mainstream health

dogmas runs toward low-fat or moderate " good " fats. I looked at his

diet pages after suspecting such was not the case with him from

looking at his skin and it appears he is eating to many PUFA's.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

,

> Speaking of ab

> exercises, now Turkish Get-ups is a killer exercise.

> Have you ever done those?

No, but I'm willing to try anything once :-)

Care to post about them?

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

>>

>

> Didn't watch the video yet,

You only need to see the first few seconds as a lifter drops the

plates to the floor directly from overhead.

> but I think that's what they have at this

> gym because the plates feel like rubber. I suppose that would explain

> the subtle nasty smell that seems to emanate from the weight racks.

I would be very surprised if this is what you have at your gym. A lot

of gyms will have a few floating around but outside of really hardcore

gyms I have never seem them in abundance or as the main plate. Are all

the plates in the gym the same size (diameter). If not they are not

Olympic rubber bumpers.

>>> I felt like I had it down pretty

>>> well though. I don't remember whether I asked for a trainer's help or

>>> not. Seemed like an extension of clean and jerks with the kettlebell.

>

>> Okay, but if you ever get into them I wouldn't try going heavy until I

>> had a few sessions with a good instructor, i.e. someone who is

>> actively involved in the lifts.

>

> Ok. I don't think I was going very heavy, certainly not anywhere near

> as heavy as squat or deadlift.

If you did you would put a lot of undue stress on your shoulders

trying to lower the weights without dropping them.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

Gene,

> Pavel recommends low reps and is not taken seriously any longer by the

> serious kettlebell community.

Out of curiosity, why?

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

Well, for one, he called himself a 'master of sport' in his promotional

literature, and he isn't one. Most of his top people defected for that and other

reasons, and the current top kettlebell trainer in the U.S. is a former world

champion named valery federenko. He has achieved much better results with

american GS'ers than Pavel ever did.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: <slethnobotanist@...>

> Gene,

>

> > Pavel recommends low reps and is not taken seriously any longer by the

> > serious kettlebell community.

>

> Out of curiosity, why?

>

>

> --

> I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

> be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

> Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

> feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

> gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

> simulated otherwise.

>

> -Anonymous

[Guest guest]

So what do you all consider " too much " PUFA?

>

> ,

>

> > The claims to be at 8% bodyfat. If he is he probably doesn't need

to

> > suck in his gut.

>

> I don't understand why abdominal fat has anything to do with the

need

> to suck in his gut. I would be interested in other opinions on

this.

> But as far as I can tell, I have very little fat on my abdomen.

> Essentially, I have no pinchable fat, and only enough fat to hide my

> ab definition 30-50% more than his is hidden. If I completely relax

> my abdomen, I still have some visible ab definition, BUT I do not

feel

> like my gut is flat. I feel like if I stand up straight and pull my

> shoulders back, it is 80% but not completely flat if I am exhaled,

but

> when I inhale, if I inhale abdominally which is the correct way to

> breath, my gut looks about as far from flat as it can get.

>

> So, to some extent, I think having a flat stomach is about breathing

> wrong through the chest instead of through the bottom of the

abdomen.

> But I also think it must be much more about stomach size and maybe

> intestinal gas or something more than it is about abdominal fat. I

> mean, it should be clear by the look of a gut whether the lack of

> flatness is occurring on one side of the abdominal muscle or the

> other. If I can pinch the lack of flatness as a piece of flab in

> front of my abdominal muscle, then yeah I definitely need to lose

> abdominal fat. But if my muscle is basically coming out to my skin

> and and my gut isn't flat, whatever is making it not flat must be

> behind the muscle.

>

> Right?

>

> > It also looks to me like he has what I call PUFA-skin, i.e. based

on

> > the appearance of his skin it would appear that too many of his

> > calories are coming from PUFA's, even though he eats a high fat

diet.

>

> What about his skin appearance indicates this? The only things I

> notice are a) he looks like he got a recent sunburn and he has

some

> wrinkles on his abs that look like he recently lost some abdominal

fat

> and still has the skin from it.

>

> I don't think it's a case of " even though. " If you eat a high-fat

> diet, you're more likely to overdo the PUFAs. For example, if you

ate

> a diet that was 60% lard you'd be getting way too much PUFA, but if

> you ate a diet that was 10% lard and 10% butter you'd be fine.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>it should be clear by the look of a gut whether the lack of

>flatness is occurring on one side of the abdominal muscle or the

>other. If I can pinch the lack of flatness as a piece of flab in

>front of my abdominal muscle, then yeah I definitely need to lose

>abdominal fat. But if my muscle is basically coming out to my skin

>and and my gut isn't flat, whatever is making it not flat must be

>behind the muscle.

Actually, even people who appear perfect can have intra-abdominal fat-

under the muscle, on top of and around the organs. Many consider this

fat to be more detrimental or dangerous than abdominal fat one can see.

Remember the fat bodies under the muscle when you dissected a frog in

junior high?

Desh

[Guest guest]

--- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

now Turkish Get-ups is a killer

> exercise.

> > Have you ever done those?

>

> No, but I'm willing to try anything once :-)

>

> Care to post about them?

Here is a youtube demonstration of them. You may

think they are easy, but try them. I guarantee you

will be panting out a lung after you do a few of them

-

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

-WB Yeats

[Guest guest]

Sorry, here's the youtube link for the Turkish

Get-Ups:

-

--- Seay <entheogens@...> wrote:

>

> --- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

> now Turkish Get-ups is a killer

> > exercise.

> > > Have you ever done those?

> >

> > No, but I'm willing to try anything once :-)

> >

> > Care to post about them?

>

> Here is a youtube demonstration of them. You may

> think they are easy, but try them. I guarantee you

> will be panting out a lung after you do a few of

> them

>

>

> -

>

>

> Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

> Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

> The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

> The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

> The best lack all conviction, while the worst

> Are full of passionate intensity.

>

> -WB Yeats

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

writes:

>> It also looks to me like he has what I call PUFA-skin.... <<

How can you tell on that little picture and resolution?

Could it be just his age?

What does PUFA-skin look like to you? What does SAT-skin look like in contrast?

BtC

[Guest guest]

De,

> Actually, even people who appear perfect can have intra-abdominal fat-

> under the muscle, on top of and around the organs. Many consider this

> fat to be more detrimental or dangerous than abdominal fat one can see.

> Remember the fat bodies under the muscle when you dissected a frog in

> junior high?

Thanks! Maybe I have some of that too lose.

All I remember from high school is stabbing a perch in the eye with my probe.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

> You only need to see the first few seconds as a lifter drops the

> plates to the floor directly from overhead.

Wow, I'm watching now. That's scary as hell and wouldn't do anything

like it withotu a trainer! I don't see how some of them aren't

killing their wrists when they have them bent all the way backwards,

and I really wouldn't be weary about the whole throwing a bent leg

backwards thing some of them are doing.

>> but I think that's what they have at this

>> gym because the plates feel like rubber. I suppose that would explain

>> the subtle nasty smell that seems to emanate from the weight racks.

> I would be very surprised if this is what you have at your gym. A lot

> of gyms will have a few floating around but outside of really hardcore

> gyms I have never seem them in abundance or as the main plate. Are all

> the plates in the gym the same size (diameter). If not they are not

> Olympic rubber bumpers.

Oh then we don't have that. They are all different sizes, but some of

them seem larger in D than the regular ones, though it's been a while

since I've been in a gym. There is definitely something softer about

these though. Maybe they are rubber-plated or something.

Chris