Re: Homosexuality in Primitives

[Guest guest]

--- Gene implode7@... wrote:

> Sorry - I strongly disagree. If I call a behavior abnormal,

> or deviant, or whatever ... it is a JUDGEMENT.

>

> Similarly - you are implying that it is deviant behavior. Pure and

> simple - this is not an academic question - it is a value judgement,

> and you are a bigot.

Gene,

Ironically, if you're utterly intolerant of another opinion, that

makes you a bigot as well!

big·ot [big-uht] – noun

a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or

opinion

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

But then, I guess we're all bigots about something. I can tolerate

just about any words, even if I disagree - unless they're supportive

of violence. So, I guess I'm a bigot against violence.

" Normal " is always relative to someone's definition, as is " deviant " ,

or " degenerative " .

I think of myself as " normal " , but my wife would probably tell you

otherwise

<degenerate deviate by someone's definition I'm sure>

[Guest guest]

Jane,

> you asked for some research on the possible effects of

> estrogen as a possible contributor to homosexuality.

Yes, and I see in this post you aren't interested in posting any.

> After the

> response I received from you for just suggesting that we allow

> research on this subject to be presented on the other board that this

> came up on, I wanted to stay out of this one, since it was going the

> same way with people attacking those who dare suggest we review the

> possibilities as " bigots " (I acknowledge that was not from you). Here

> goes anyway:

On both lists I have simply pointed out the fundamental logical flaws

and complete lack of evidence used to support the argument that

estrogen or dietary phytoestrogens may cause homosexuality. I'm not

interested in PC and haven't said a single thing indicating that

anyone should not be allowed to present any research.

> It is interesting that we can look into all other sorts of effects

> from the food and chemicals we consume in our lives, including weight

> (a proven prejudice that results in lack of employment, lower

> earnings, social scorn, name-calling, etc. for those that just appear

> to be out of the norm-and there is no way to " hide " it- size is the

> first thing anyone sees and many prejudice people create an opinion

> with out any background information, no matter what the cause, at

> first sight), and every other area of our Human existence, but this

> one.

The reason I do not object to people arguing that diet is connected to

obesity is because there are thousands of studies demonstrating this

link. The reason I object to people arguing that dietary

phytoestogens or high levels of estrogen can be linked to

homosexuality is because not one single person has provided one single

shred of evidence for either of these things. The only thing that has

been offered is the appeal to associations between estrogen,

femininity, femaleness and male sexuality that demonstrate a

fundamental physiological ignorance of hormones and a ridiculous

equivocation between femaleness and male homosexuality.

I'm sorry, but do most gay men have gynecomastia? I admit that I am

not regularly exposed to gay men but I have met some and I've seen a

few more on tv and I have never noticed gay men having breasts.

These are the symptoms that Dr. Lee lists as signs that men may

have elevated estrogen:

============

Hair loss

Headaches

Prostate enlargement

Breast enlargement

Irritability

Weight gain

Puffiniess/bloating

============

Do homosexuals tend to be bald, fat, irritable, and have voluptious

breasts and prostates? Are they puffy and bloated?

Klinefelter's syndrome is a genetic condition where a man has more

than one X chromosome. There are some case reports of some that are

homosexual and some that are heterosexual. Here is case report of a

heterosexual man with Klinefelter's:

=============

[Klinefelter's syndrome: diagnosis and treatment. Case

report.][Article in Italian]

i R.

ASL 4 - Prato, Ospedale Misericordia e Dolce, Prato.

Klinefelter's syndrome affects 1 in 500 men across all ethnic groups

but the diagnosis is often delayed because of substantial variations

in clinical presentation. A 26 year-old male came to observation for

chronic fatigue. His laboratory data and radiological examination were

negative. Examination showed eunuchoidal body habitus with sparse

facial hair, small and firm testes and no gynecomastia. The patient

had heterosexual orientation with regular sexual intercourses but

diminished libido. Serum gonadotropin concentrations were raised while

serum testosterone concentration was low-normal level. Serum PRL

concentration and thyroid function were normal. Seminal analysis

revealed azoospermia and peripheral lymphocyte karyotyping showed a

47,XXY karyotype, confirming diagnostic suspicion. Patient was given

testosterone enanthate 200 mg intramuscularly every 2 weeks. He noted

improvements in fatigue and libido and increase of muscle mass. Since

the true prevalence of Klinefelter's syndrome is very high, the

diagnosis of this disease should be considered in every men with

complaints related to hypogonadism (fatigue, weakness, gynecomastia,

infertility, erectile dysfunction, small testis and osteoporosis).

Testosterone replacement therapy should be started early to minimize

the physical and psychological effects of androgen deficiency. There

have been recent advances in the options for the treatment of

infertility in patients with Klinefelter's syndrome: however findings

that this syndrome may be transmitted by the new assisted reproductive

techniques is cause for concern.

============

Excesses of estrogen and deficiencies of testosterone seem to cause

fundamentally physically pathological conditions in men, rather than

fondness for pink or a desire for men.

Some of the people on the other list we discussed this on noted the

supposed association between homosexuality and promiscuity. How on

earth are homosexuals so promiscuous if they have these hormone

defects that almost invariably lead to decreased libido and impotence?

Thus, I simply plead that if you are going to argue that this

association is even remotely plausible, you need to address these

fundamental inconsistencies in the argument. Rather than protesting

that anyone who asks you to support your position with some evidence

is clamming down on your right to free speech out of political

correctness, just do some homework and find some evidence.

> These questions may not hold the answers at all, we may eliminate

> them as even the slightness contributors, but to discourage and even

> condemn those who are open-minded enough to even consider the

> possibilities only silences information in the same way corporations

> try to silence the effects of the chemicals they are eschewing into

> the environment.

Open-mindedness is not the acceptance of all ideas. It is the

willingness to give all ideas a chance. Someone who clings to an idea

without being able to support it in the face of contradicting evidence

is closed-minded, not open-minded.

>If the corporations can keep us from asking the

> questions, then there will be no reason to do the studies, and we

> will never have " one shred of evidence " for any of the harmful

> effects people dared to ask about.

I'm not sure what it is about the way I've been phrasing this very

important point that isn't getting through, but I'm hoping that maybe

if I give it it's own line and put some asterisks around it, it will

do the trick. If I could write it in color, I'd do so, but I can't.

***** There Are Three Hundred Sixty Four Studies Already Indexed For

PubMed On Homosexuality And Hormones. If There Is A Connection

Between Homosexuality And Estrogen You Will Find It There. **********

> About the research, have you read this book?

>

> The Estrogen Effect: How Chemical Pollution Is Threatening Our

> Survival (Paperback)

> by Deborah Cadbury

No, I have not read it.

> " Science journalist Cadbury, here expanding her Emmy-winning Horizon

> program " Assault on the Male, " presents evidence that the widespread

> use of synthetic chemicals has disrupted our and other animals'

> natural hormonal systems, in effect flooding them with megadoses of

> estrogenlike substances that " feminize " males and contribute to

> breast cancer and myriad other problems. "

" Feminize " is vague.

> -Reproductive Effects/Birth Defects

> -Cancer

> -Low sperm count/Sexual Dysfunction

> -Heart Disease

> -Cognitive Disorders

> *-Sex Reversal*

> -Premature puberty

> Some of these chemicals are used in plastics, food production and

> packaging, paints, pesticides, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals,

> detergents, wetting agents, furniture and carpets. Others are

> produced as byproducts of pulp and paper production, incineration,

> fuel combustion in vehicles, and animal production. There are a

> variety of naturally produced phytochemicals in foods including

> soybeans, legumes, flax, yams, and clover. Humans and animals also

> produce hormones naturally and by taking pharmaceuticals such as

> birth control bills and hormone replacement therapy, which can flow

> into sewage treatment and drinking water systems "

I see that nothing in this even hints at homosexuality. I don't know

what " sex reversal " means, but I know that environmental estrogens and

estrogens in products have been associated with gynecomastia in boys

and I know that most gay men do not seem to have gynecomastia. Do

they? Or do I just not know enough gay men?

> What animal effects have ED's been linked to? (3)

> 1) Abnormal thyroid function and appearance

> 2) Decreased fertility

> 3) Decreased hatching success

> 4) Demasculinization and feminization in males

> 5) Defeminization and masculinization in females

> 6) Decreased offspring survival

> 7) Altered immune system function

> 8) Altered behavior "

Again " masculinization " and " feminization " are vague. Most

stereotypical distinguishing traits of male homosexuals seem

accurately described as feminine but they hardly strike me as typical

traits of females. Most homosexual males do not seem to have enlarged

breasts or wide hips. I have no idea if lesbians tend to be

infertile. Do they?

> This is not new news. In high school, we fed estrogen to rosters and

> got them to act like hens, and visa-versa.

> (I suppose that would not be allowed today! – that was many years

> ago) Experiments like this have been going on for many, many

> years.

I'm sure you did, but all you are offering is the simplistic

assumption that homosexual men are men who are acting like women

rather than any scientific or logical argument.

> There are thousands of pages of more research.

Yes, and there are hundreds of papers that address homosexuality and

instead you have offered books and internet articles that have nothing

whatsoever to do with homosexuality. You pretend that there is no

research on hormones and sexuality and continue to equivocate (a

logical fallacy) sexual and morphological dysfunction or vague

allusions to femaleness with male homosexuality and the converse with

female homosexuality.

Wouldn't it be much simpler to examine the evidence that is actually

relevant to your position, rather than to keep equivocating?

>I am not trying to

> prove the effect and so do not wish to do a complete research on it,

The issue isn't completeness. You haven't done any research on it at all.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

--- Satina, Nila <dharmaworker@...> wrote:

> Hermaphrodites and transgendered and homosexual individuals are the

> physical manifestation of a stage of evolution toward what we truly

> are at the soul level...both male and female at the same time.

Satina,

Wouldn't you have to be bi-sexual to be both " male and female " at the

same time? Or perhaps non-sexual?

I have to agree though, that the creative force of this universe has

no sex, or perhaps paradoxically, all sex.

In my view, " mother " nature and " father " god are one and the same

In my view, you and I are also one and the same

Just at a different portal in space-time.

May the farce be with you ;-)

<the unenlightened one>

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

> --- Gene implode7@... wrote:

>> > Sorry - I strongly disagree. If I call a behavior abnormal,

>> > or deviant, or whatever ... it is a JUDGEMENT.

>> >

>> > Similarly - you are implying that it is deviant behavior. Pure and

>> > simple - this is not an academic question - it is a value judgement,

>> > and you are a bigot.

>

> ³Gene,

>

> Ironically, if you're utterly intolerant of another opinion, that

> makes you a bigot as well!

>

> big·ot [big-uht] – noun

> a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or

> opinion

> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot²

>

> Oh, I¹m cowed by someone who can quote the dictionary, and still get it wrong.

> Surely, one is not a bigot, for instance, if one is intolerant of, say, nazis,

> or people who believe that any particular group of people should be

> exterminated. The definition is rather poorly worded (just because you find it

> in some online dictionary doesn¹t mean that it¹s gospel, just like seeing

> something on TV doesn¹t make it truth). But I think that you misinterpret it ­

> I think that what it means is that a bigot is someone who is intolerant of ALL

> differing creeds, beliefs, or opinions. Obviously. Unless you don¹t think that

> mine in a counterexample, and you actually believe that someone who is

> intolerant of hatred should be considered a bigot.

>

> That¹s a rather strange usage, don¹t you think:

> ³I just will not tolerate any expressions of racism, homophobia, or

> anti-semitism here².

> ³Oh, stop being such a bigot².

>

> So, it¹s ironic that you call me a bigot based on a technical definition of a

> bigot that is a misreading, and certainly a misunderstanding of language and

> context.

>

> ³But then, I guess we're all bigots about something. I can tolerate

> just about any words, even if I disagree - unless they're supportive

> of violence. So, I guess I'm a bigot against violence.²

>

> And so, you don¹t think that, even if you interpreted the definition

> correctly, that it is better to be bigoted against bigotry, than to be bigoted

> against people based on race, creed, sexual orientation, sex? A rather strange

> leveling out of moral choices I think. Why are you even bothering with this?

>

> ³ " Normal " is always relative to someone's definition, as is " deviant " ,

> or " degenerative " .

>

> I think of myself as " normal " , but my wife would probably tell you

> otherwise ²

>

> Do you have any notion of how silly your post is? Words have meaning, and they

> have many meanings. There is an important context for these words in which

> terms like bigotry, and degenerate, and abnormal have a particular meaning,

> and in order to make your point (whatever it really is) you distort this.

>

> I think that you know what is meant, and you either think that intolerance of

> women, homosexuals, blacks, Martians, whomever, is a very bad thing or you

> don¹t. It appears that you don¹t.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> On both lists I have simply pointed out the fundamental logical flaws

> and complete lack of evidence used to support the argument that

> estrogen or dietary phytoestrogens may cause homosexuality. I'm not

> interested in PC and haven't said a single thing indicating that

> anyone should not be allowed to present any research.

Ummm - who has suggested anything like 'pc' here? I think, and it's really a

very simple position - that people who consider homosexuals to be

degenerates, and abnormal, are classic bigots, no different than people who

consider blacks, women, jews, whomever, to be inferior. What about this do

you disagree with?

[Guest guest]

Can we just be clear that you responded to " jane " , who is me, but the

post you replied to last was by someone named " Jan. "

Just so you and all are clear about who is writing what and who is

responding to whom.

I haven't been online all day. It's a day of commercial nationwide

forced love, after all. I've been busy receiving candygrams and

flowers from all my admirers.

Actually, I had housework to do, but I did eat some candy.

Just so we're clear, big Kahuna.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Jane,

> Can we just be clear that you responded to " jane " , who is me, but the

> post you replied to last was by someone named " Jan. "

Ack! My apologies to both of you. :-)

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

looks to be near my age range...from his

picture on the photos section.

Speaking of which i tried to get my picture on there

but it doesnt let me.

-Ishtar

> In a message dated 2/13/2007 11:31:44 PM Central Standard Time,

> chrismasterjohn@... writes:

>

>

> > In my seventy years of life I have not once stepped into a

laboratory.

> >

>

> Seventy! I'm surprised, there have been so many posts referring to

your

> 'young' age.

> C R

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 2/14/07, craicker@... <craicker@...> wrote:

> Seventy! I'm surprised, there have been so many posts referring to your

> 'young' age.

Actually I was just kidding. And I have been in a laboratory before too. ;-)

However, I work in front of a computer right now, not in a lab.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Gene

> > On both lists I have simply pointed out the fundamental logical flaws

> > and complete lack of evidence used to support the argument that

> > estrogen or dietary phytoestrogens may cause homosexuality. I'm not

> > interested in PC and haven't said a single thing indicating that

> > anyone should not be allowed to present any research.

> Ummm - who has suggested anything like 'pc' here? I think, and it's really a

> very simple position - that people who consider homosexuals to be

> degenerates, and abnormal, are classic bigots, no different than people who

> consider blacks, women, jews, whomever, to be inferior. What about this do

> you disagree with?

I wasn't criticizing your position to begin with. I got several

responses, however, to my entirely academic position on the subject

implying that *I* was being PC, and that's what I was addressing.

I agree that referring to homosexuality as unnatural (demonstrably

false) and degenerate (value judgment) is a heavily prejudiced way of

addressing the subject. However, I'm not sure your approach is

actually going to get through to anyone.

And, the fundamental question that is being asked, however poorly --

" what causes homosexuality " -- is something that I do not object to.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Ishtar,

> looks to be near my age range...from his

> picture on the photos section.

Oh, geez, I'm so sorry to have deceived you. I took those pictures 45

years ago!

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Lorie,

> I read

> once estrogen is what makes women docile.

Doesn't PMS tend to come in the days preceding ovulation? For give my

possible ignorance on this, but if so, this is when estrogen shoots

through the roof. Lee lists irritability as a symptom of high

estrogen for men. I read a study, however, that found that feeding

tofu to male apes apparently made them violent and submissive both --

I only read the abstract.

> So I am wondering if the influence of estrogen compounds on women increased

> this movement exponentially. I would appreciate anything you can find and

> print. I am just wondering what has caused such a highly increased shift in

> the last 40 or so years. I know women have always demanded more rights, and

> that has been going on back since the suffragetes, but they didn't want to

> lose thier feminity back then.

I think it depends what suffragists you're talking about. Many of the

feminists even in the 19th century were as extreme as any modern ones,

but in the suffrage movement they were tempered by the religious

feminists like Lucy Stone, who were probably part of the suffrage

movement's success, considering the religious nature of the society at

that time. In general it seems to me that whether the feminists were

religious or atheists was a better predictor of how they viewed the

notions of femininity of their time.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

On 2/14/07, Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> wrote:

> > I think that you know what is meant, and you either think that intolerance

> of

> > women, homosexuals, blacks, Martians, whomever, is a very bad thing or you

> > don¹t. It appears that you don¹t.

I don't have any problem with Martians at all. I just think they

belong on Mars. Earth is for Earthlings -- if it weren't, it wouldn't

be called " Earth. "

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ³I wasn't criticizing your position to begin with. I got several

> responses, however, to my entirely academic position on the subject

> implying that *I* was being PC, and that's what I was addressing.

>

> I agree that referring to homosexuality as unnatural (demonstrably

> false) and degenerate (value judgment) is a heavily prejudiced way of

> addressing the subject. However, I'm not sure your approach is

> actually going to get through to anyone.²

>

> Well, none of us is sure what exactly what will get through to someone who is

> dealing with deep seated bigotry and ignorance. However I am reasonably

> certain that expressing no disapproval of such views will not get through to

> them.

>

> ³And, the fundamental question that is being asked, however poorly --

> " what causes homosexuality " -- is something that I do not object to.²

>

> What causes heterosexuality?

[Guest guest]

> The reason I do not object to people arguing that diet is

> connected to obesity is because there are thousands of studies

> demonstrating this link. The reason I object to people arguing

> that dietary phytoestogens or high levels of estrogen can be

> linked to homosexuality is because not one single person has

> provided one single shred of evidence for either of these things.

> The only thing that has been offered is the appeal to associations

> between estrogen, femininity, femaleness and male sexuality that

> demonstrate a fundamental physiological ignorance of hormones and

> a ridiculous equivocation between femaleness and male

> homosexuality.

IMO, the whole notion of estrogen and feminizing being associated with

homosexuality clearly has its roots in an assumption that gay men are

stereotypical swishy queens. My observation, as a gay man who has

spent a fair amount of time around other gay men, is that gay men

cover a broad spectrum from very masculine to very feminine and that

those traits can vary from innate to affectation.

A couple months ago, the Internet broke out in hysterical laughter

when a Christian commentator on WorldNetDaily claimed that soy causes

homosexuality:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

I live in Fairfield, Iowa, which is the central hub of the

Transcendental Meditation movement in the US, and there are a lot of

vegetarians here. One of the early businesses to pop up after the TM

org bought the defunct Parson's College campus 30 years ago is

American Pride Tofu, and there are a lot of children here born to

parents who eat large quantities of unfermented soy and who raised

their children on a soy-heavy diet. I would think that if there were a

connection between soy and homosexuality, it would be glaringly

obvious in the meditating community's children. So far, I have never

been aware of any tendency for meditator boys to be gay.

[Guest guest]

Some may find it interesting that there is a condition called Kleinfelders

Syndrome. This is where a male has an extra x chromosome. xxy, instead of xy.

This is more common than you would think. 1 out of 700. The clinical findings

are very low levels of testosterone, higher levels of estrogen, infertility (no

sperm to malformed sperm-possibly some normal sperm), breast tissue in some,

decreased muscle gain, laziness and lethargy, social problems (because of

decreased cognitive development and language abilities - including reading,

writing and expression). Many are diagnosed as ADD, as they tend to not

understand and phrase out during instruction. Math doesn't appear to be as much

of a problem, which is interesting. Most are diagnosed when they try to have a

baby and can't.

Interestingly, the stats on these males do not show a higher rate of

homosexuality, even though as a group, one may think there would be. They

appear thinner than the norm, with social issues, but homosex. doesn't appear to

be one of them. A lot of them have gender concerns, because they look more

feminine, but it translates more into not having any type of sexual

relationship, because of all the above- including low self esteem.

The large majority consider themselves to be heterosexual, with possibly a

decreased sex drive. This is from data gathered in doctors offices and

compiled, as this is one of the first questions that is asked of the boys/men.

The treatment is giving testosterone for life, which puts the person's body

back into a more balanced state.

jafa

---------------------------------

Need Mail bonding?

Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

[Guest guest]

Interestingly though Bonobo apes which are our nearest relatives practice all

types of sexuality including homosexuality>>

" Our nearest relatives " , huh? Well...following that line of " reasoning " (or,

relevance)...then to find the HomoSexxed practiced in a human would signal a

..

..

[Guest guest]

On 2/15/07, jafa <jafasum@...> wrote:

> Some may find it interesting that there is a condition called Kleinfelders

> Syndrome.

Yes! This is exaclty what I was thinking when folks were talking

about Pottenger's cats. Malnutrition would be expected to result in

meotic errors and these kinds of genetic defects. Klinefelter's

causes the feminization of the male body and has higher rates among

violent criminals. The rates in prison populations are much higher

than the general population.

THIS sounds MUCH more like what people were saying Pottenger observed

than homosexuality.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>

> I don't believe homosexuals are physically malnourished but

> SPRITUALLY and MENTALLY malnourished.

I can understand how your belief in primitive tribal superstition

would lead to the belief that homosexuals are spiritually

malnourished, but what evidence do you have that homosexuals are

mentally malnourished? After all, some of humankind's greatest

thinkers and creative giants have been homosexuals.

[Guest guest]

On 2/15/07, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Doesn't PMS tend to come in the days preceding ovulation? For give my

> possible ignorance on this, but if so, this is when estrogen shoots

> through the roof. Lee lists irritability as a symptom of high

> estrogen for men. I read a study, however, that found that feeding

> tofu to male apes apparently made them violent and submissive both --

> I only read the abstract.

Actually, ovulation is due to a combination of two hormones, estrogen

and luteinizing hormone. It is, hoewever, not when PMS occurs. It's

Pre-Menstrual Syndrome, not Pre-Ovulation Syndrome.

PMS usually ocurrs in the two weeks prior to menstration or what would be

called the luteal phase in ovulatory cycles. The later half of the cycle is

ruled by a progesterone surge (which is what causes the thermal shift that

indicates ovulation).

See the Wiki definition: " While PMS is linked to the luteal

phase<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteal_phase>,

measurments of sex hormone <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_hormone> levels

are within normal levels. PMS tends to be more common among twins suggesting

the possibility of some genetic

component.[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMS#_note-ACOG> Current

thinking suspects that central-nervous-system neurotransmitter interactions

with sex hormones are

affected.[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMS#_note-ACOG>It is thought

to be linked to activity of

serotonin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin> (a neutrotransmitter) in

the brain. "

and also the Mayo Clinic definition of causes (

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/premenstrual-syndrome/DS00134/DSECTION=3).

(who incidentally doubts that this post will ever make it through b/c mine

never do, but nonetheless knows quite a bit too much about women's cycles,

unfortunately)

[Guest guest]

>>and you are a bigot>>

Well now, that's just hateful. Im hurt, deeply hurt.

Nah, just kidding.

But to be clear, the difference b/n you and me is I try *not* to be

hurtful; you do it intentionally.

It's okay to call me a bigot right out here like that, to slander me

in a way that's probably actionable, but I can't call homosexual

behavior, in general, deviant in a technical sense? Hmmm.

Fortunately, I have skin of steel.Heh.

Jane

[Guest guest]

,

The Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of the Living God. It says in

Romans 1:28, " And according as they did not like to retain God in their

knowledge(homosexuals), God gave them up to a reprobate mind. " Reprobate can be

defined as ' a mind void of moral discernment.' I'm not trying to be

controversial. Homosexuals are equal to fornicators, adulterers, ect. If someone

is doing that, they need to come to Christ. It's sexual sin. They need to come

to Christ. No matter how " intelligent " someone may be; they are not immune to

the flesh(sinful desires). I believe what Weston A. Price found was an

excellent discovery but I'm sure he didn't want his work to come between

people's spiritual needs. I know some of those missionaries in his day were

bringing processed foods to the primitives( and that was stupid) but I'm sure

those primitives will be thankful for all eternity for the prized Treasure that

the missionaries brought them, Christ.

Stanley <j_alexander_stanley@...> wrote:

>

> I don't believe homosexuals are physically malnourished but

> SPRITUALLY and MENTALLY malnourished.

I can understand how your belief in primitive tribal superstition

would lead to the belief that homosexuals are spiritually

malnourished, but what evidence do you have that homosexuals are

mentally malnourished? After all, some of humankind's greatest

thinkers and creative giants have been homosexuals.

---------------------------------

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate

in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.

[Guest guest]

I assume you are refering to Pottenger as the " bigot " ??

--- In , Gene Schwartz <implode7@...>

wrote:

>

>

> >

> > On both lists I have simply pointed out the fundamental logical

flaws

> > and complete lack of evidence used to support the argument that

> > estrogen or dietary phytoestrogens may cause homosexuality. I'm

not

> > interested in PC and haven't said a single thing indicating that

> > anyone should not be allowed to present any research.

>

> Ummm - who has suggested anything like 'pc' here? I think, and it's

really a

> very simple position - that people who consider homosexuals to be

> degenerates, and abnormal, are classic bigots, no different than

people who

> consider blacks, women, jews, whomever, to be inferior. What about

this do

> you disagree with?

>

[Guest guest]

If he, or anyone else, has those views, then yes. I haven't read him, so I can't

say.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " bellasol.organics " <bellasol.organics@...>

> I assume you are refering to Pottenger as the " bigot " ??

>

>

> >

> >

> > >

> > > On both lists I have simply pointed out the fundamental logical

> flaws

> > > and complete lack of evidence used to support the argument that

> > > estrogen or dietary phytoestrogens may cause homosexuality. I'm

> not

> > > interested in PC and haven't said a single thing indicating that

> > > anyone should not be allowed to present any research.

> >

> > Ummm - who has suggested anything like 'pc' here? I think, and it's

> really a

> > very simple position - that people who consider homosexuals to be

> > degenerates, and abnormal, are classic bigots, no different than

> people who

> > consider blacks, women, jews, whomever, to be inferior. What about

> this do

> > you disagree with?

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" actionable " ....that's hilarious.

I reread your previous post and I'm comfortable with what I wrote.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " Jane Rowland " <classicalwriter@...>

>

> >>and you are a bigot>>

>

> Well now, that's just hateful. Im hurt, deeply hurt.

>

> Nah, just kidding.

>

> But to be clear, the difference b/n you and me is I try *not* to be

> hurtful; you do it intentionally.

>

>

> It's okay to call me a bigot right out here like that, to slander me

> in a way that's probably actionable, but I can't call homosexual

> behavior, in general, deviant in a technical sense? Hmmm.

>

> Fortunately, I have skin of steel.Heh.

>

> Jane

>

>