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Re: CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

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Guest guest
Posted

Diane

A couple of comments about your United Healthcare issues:

1. An organization is the most logical way to fight United Healthcare.

2. Any time an HMO/Insurer dramatically infringes on a patient's right to

healthcare, it can land on the front page of the local newspaper or the

opening story of a newscast.

3. If you are able to identify patients that receive substandard care, if

you are able to find a media outlet that can report it, it makes for a good

story.

4. There are relatively new insurance plans with Health Savings Accounts

associated with them that take coverage out of the insurance industry's hands

and places it back in the consumer's hands. Unfortunately, people who

purchase insurance coverage are not demanding this coverage. As a healthcare

provider, you could learn about these types of policies and recommend them to

the

people that buy policies. I know, I've had a policy similar to this for the

past 8-10 years.

5. A lot of providers don't care about what United Healthcare does because

they are not a major player in their backyard. If they are a major player in

your area, then you will need to band together with other therapists through

your state organization and possibly tie your efforts in with other state

chapters of healthcare providers (i.e., AMA, ASHA, AOTA) then go public with

your issues.

Everyone needs to be getting involved with these fights because there seem

to be more and more of them with each passing month. They range from these

types of issues to ones like insurance companies setting Medical Review policies

that are opposed to what other insurers are doing because they know not all

providers are willing to fight for their money.

Just a couple of thoughts on a Thursday Night.

Jim Hall, CPA <///><

General Manager

Rehab Management Services, LLC

Cedar Rapids, IA

319/447-5625

Guest guest
Posted

Hi, Diane -

Thanks for pointing up this important issue.

Someone once noted for me that insurance companies are actually financial

institutions, rather than health care institutions. Their function is to

spend less than they take in, and then divide the leftovers among the

owners. Perhaps that explains their actions.

Dick Hillyer, PT

Cape Coral, FL

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona Republic, dated

today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians in Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be

Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are planning to RATE

physicians by the amount of money they save the insurance companies. If the

physician is successful in keeping costs down, then Aetna and UHC

will 'reward' the physicians and the patients by reducing the co-pay amount

for the patient and recommending that physician to the patient. Quality of

patient care is not an issue, just the $$$$.

We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as well. And we as

patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected because physicians will

be extremely frugal in choosing possibly life saving tests, medications, and

procedures for us, as patients, so that they can earn their 'reward'.

According to the article, physicians are not happy about this at all, nor

should they be.

Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put themselves in the

driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger side to blindly go

where the insurance companies dictated. Then they pushed us out of the car,

and ever since, we have been trying to run outside of the car, trying to

catch up with them. Now with this, they are running us over! When will

this insanity end? What is next!!

We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious that too

little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific and they are doing

their best but there has to be more that we can do to get back into that

car.

If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy providers will

be as well. It is obvious that we all will have no other choice but to cut

our costs, whether it be through less trained personnel, eliminating the

purchase of more up-to-date equipment, eliminating certain modalities and

procedures for out patients, etc.

It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare providers need to

band together in huge numbers to fight this organized crime that will bury

us all, providers and patients alike.

Diane

Valley Rehabilitation

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

> 5. A lot of providers don't care about what United Healthcare

does because

> they are not a major player in their backyard. If they are a

major player in

> your area, then you will need to band together with other

therapists through

> your state organization and possibly tie your efforts in with

other state

> chapters of healthcare providers

Jim (and Dick)

Thanks so much for the insight, and thanks to the original poster

for making us aware of this issue. United might not, today, be a

big player in your area. I happen to be in a position to watch

their growth in the mid-Atlantic region and presume their intention

is to continue to purchase small to mid-sized hMo providers. The

strategy is simple... buy them out, convert them into the United

policies. Rip up the old fee schedules and create newer, more

insurance company friendly ones. I presume that their growth

initiatives are not limited to just our region, as United exists in

some form in many parts of the states.

While the outcome of this bears watching, I bet that the insurance

industry lawyers have already checked out whether they can get away

with it, with the costs (outrage by the insursed, anger by

providers, cost of prospective lawsuits) versus the benefits (not

having to cough up as much to providers) studied.

- Simonetti, PT

land

where MAMSI has been bought out by United

Guest guest
Posted

> 5. A lot of providers don't care about what United Healthcare

does because

> they are not a major player in their backyard. If they are a

major player in

> your area, then you will need to band together with other

therapists through

> your state organization and possibly tie your efforts in with

other state

> chapters of healthcare providers

Jim (and Dick)

Thanks so much for the insight, and thanks to the original poster

for making us aware of this issue. United might not, today, be a

big player in your area. I happen to be in a position to watch

their growth in the mid-Atlantic region and presume their intention

is to continue to purchase small to mid-sized hMo providers. The

strategy is simple... buy them out, convert them into the United

policies. Rip up the old fee schedules and create newer, more

insurance company friendly ones. I presume that their growth

initiatives are not limited to just our region, as United exists in

some form in many parts of the states.

While the outcome of this bears watching, I bet that the insurance

industry lawyers have already checked out whether they can get away

with it, with the costs (outrage by the insursed, anger by

providers, cost of prospective lawsuits) versus the benefits (not

having to cough up as much to providers) studied.

- Simonetti, PT

land

where MAMSI has been bought out by United

Guest guest
Posted

Thanks for all of your responses. United is big here in Texas too. We are

providers on their national network (through PTP) but the local network is

served by a lot of HEALTHSOUTH clinics. I think that association and the topic

of their behavior written here may very well be a blessing in disguise. Keep

the faith and the good fight!! Doug

Doug Sparks

Advanced Physical Therapy Concepts / APTC

www.aptc.biz<http://www.aptc.biz/>

doug@...

Re: CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

> 5. A lot of providers don't care about what United Healthcare

does because

> they are not a major player in their backyard. If they are a

major player in

> your area, then you will need to band together with other

therapists through

> your state organization and possibly tie your efforts in with

other state

> chapters of healthcare providers

Jim (and Dick)

Thanks so much for the insight, and thanks to the original poster

for making us aware of this issue. United might not, today, be a

big player in your area. I happen to be in a position to watch

their growth in the mid-Atlantic region and presume their intention

is to continue to purchase small to mid-sized hMo providers. The

strategy is simple... buy them out, convert them into the United

policies. Rip up the old fee schedules and create newer, more

insurance company friendly ones. I presume that their growth

initiatives are not limited to just our region, as United exists in

some form in many parts of the states.

While the outcome of this bears watching, I bet that the insurance

industry lawyers have already checked out whether they can get away

with it, with the costs (outrage by the insursed, anger by

providers, cost of prospective lawsuits) versus the benefits (not

having to cough up as much to providers) studied.

- Simonetti, PT

land

where MAMSI has been bought out by United

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com<http://www.inhomerehab.com/>.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join and

participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Thanks for all of your responses. United is big here in Texas too. We are

providers on their national network (through PTP) but the local network is

served by a lot of HEALTHSOUTH clinics. I think that association and the topic

of their behavior written here may very well be a blessing in disguise. Keep

the faith and the good fight!! Doug

Doug Sparks

Advanced Physical Therapy Concepts / APTC

www.aptc.biz<http://www.aptc.biz/>

doug@...

Re: CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

> 5. A lot of providers don't care about what United Healthcare

does because

> they are not a major player in their backyard. If they are a

major player in

> your area, then you will need to band together with other

therapists through

> your state organization and possibly tie your efforts in with

other state

> chapters of healthcare providers

Jim (and Dick)

Thanks so much for the insight, and thanks to the original poster

for making us aware of this issue. United might not, today, be a

big player in your area. I happen to be in a position to watch

their growth in the mid-Atlantic region and presume their intention

is to continue to purchase small to mid-sized hMo providers. The

strategy is simple... buy them out, convert them into the United

policies. Rip up the old fee schedules and create newer, more

insurance company friendly ones. I presume that their growth

initiatives are not limited to just our region, as United exists in

some form in many parts of the states.

While the outcome of this bears watching, I bet that the insurance

industry lawyers have already checked out whether they can get away

with it, with the costs (outrage by the insursed, anger by

providers, cost of prospective lawsuits) versus the benefits (not

having to cough up as much to providers) studied.

- Simonetti, PT

land

where MAMSI has been bought out by United

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com<http://www.inhomerehab.com/>.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join and

participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Thanks for all of your responses. United is big here in Texas too. We are

providers on their national network (through PTP) but the local network is

served by a lot of HEALTHSOUTH clinics. I think that association and the topic

of their behavior written here may very well be a blessing in disguise. Keep

the faith and the good fight!! Doug

Doug Sparks

Advanced Physical Therapy Concepts / APTC

www.aptc.biz<http://www.aptc.biz/>

doug@...

Re: CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

> 5. A lot of providers don't care about what United Healthcare

does because

> they are not a major player in their backyard. If they are a

major player in

> your area, then you will need to band together with other

therapists through

> your state organization and possibly tie your efforts in with

other state

> chapters of healthcare providers

Jim (and Dick)

Thanks so much for the insight, and thanks to the original poster

for making us aware of this issue. United might not, today, be a

big player in your area. I happen to be in a position to watch

their growth in the mid-Atlantic region and presume their intention

is to continue to purchase small to mid-sized hMo providers. The

strategy is simple... buy them out, convert them into the United

policies. Rip up the old fee schedules and create newer, more

insurance company friendly ones. I presume that their growth

initiatives are not limited to just our region, as United exists in

some form in many parts of the states.

While the outcome of this bears watching, I bet that the insurance

industry lawyers have already checked out whether they can get away

with it, with the costs (outrage by the insursed, anger by

providers, cost of prospective lawsuits) versus the benefits (not

having to cough up as much to providers) studied.

- Simonetti, PT

land

where MAMSI has been bought out by United

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com<http://www.inhomerehab.com/>.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join and

participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Dick,

You summed it all up. I too have heard that and it is at the expense of us

all.

Those men and women sit behind their mahogany desks, in their big leather

chairs and dictate our precious health care needs and we sit across from

them with our hands and feet bound together with duct tape on our mouths.

I want to know what can we do to make a significant and permanent change.

Diane

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 18:58:22 -0400, Dick Hillyer wrote

> Hi, Diane -

>

> Thanks for pointing up this important issue.

>

> Someone once noted for me that insurance companies are actually financial

> institutions, rather than health care institutions. Their function

> is to spend less than they take in, and then divide the leftovers

> among the owners. Perhaps that explains their actions.

>

> Dick Hillyer, PT

> Cape Coral, FL

>

> CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

>

> Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians in

> Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

>

> According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are planning

> to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the insurance

> companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the patients by

> reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an issue,

> just the $$$$.

>

> We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as well.

> And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as patients,

> so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

>

> Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put themselves

> in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger side to

> blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they pushed

> us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is next!!

>

> We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific and

> they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can do to

> get back into that car.

>

> If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have no

> other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> patients, etc.

>

> It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare providers

> need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized crime

> that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

>

> Diane

> Valley Rehabilitation

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

I recently purchased a healthcare policy and the reality kept coming home.

You get what you pay for (or less than you pay for since they want to make a

profit). I was surprised that the rates vary so much between companies and

between policies within the sign up group you are paired with. I can only

imagine that some of the cost difference is in those small print details

that affect therapy, co-pay rules, etc. Hope I don't find problems, my

frugal side chose the cheaper policy.

Steve Passmore

Healthy Recruiting Tools

spass@...

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

>

> Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians in

> Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

>

> According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are planning

> to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the insurance

> companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the patients by

> reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an issue,

> just the $$$$.

>

> We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as well.

> And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as patients,

> so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

>

> Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put themselves

> in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger side to

> blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they pushed

> us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is next!!

>

> We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific and

> they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can do to

> get back into that car.

>

> If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have no

> other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> patients, etc.

>

> It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare providers

> need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized crime

> that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

>

> Diane

> Valley Rehabilitation

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Regarding Diane's comment:

" Those men and women sit behind their mahogany desks, in their big leather

chairs and dictate our precious health care needs and we sit across from

them with . "

Again folks, if you are content with solutions achieved by battling every

new injustice, you are indeed long-suffering. As you can see by this latest

mess, there is no end to the creativity third parties employ to save money.

And it must also be said, to be fair and honest, that providers here and

there have also been known to display equally nefarious creativity in the

quest for dollars, by ripping off those awful third party payers. Clearly

there is no way for goodness to prevail in a system so loaded with special

interests.

It seems beyond argument that neither third parties, nor second-parties

(i.e. providers), should be making any patient's healthcare decisions.

Whether merely a disreputable new wrinkle in insurance coverage, or forced

compliance with an expensive and inferior government-sponsored drug plan

(which, unsurprisingly, is welcomed by drug companies and drug retailers)

patients are having their rights wiped out.

Please worry less about whether it's providers or insurers that should have

more " duct tape on [their] mouths " and concern yourselves instead with the

rights of patients. Support full and meaningful change for PATIENTS. Support

Healthcare Savings Accounts.

Dave Milano, PT, Director of Rehab Services

Laurel Health System

32-36 Central Ave.

Wellsboro, PA 16901

dmilano@...

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

>

> Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians in

> Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

>

> According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are planning

> to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the insurance

> companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the patients by

> reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an issue,

> just the $$$$.

>

> We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as well.

> And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as patients,

> so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

>

> Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put themselves

> in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger side to

> blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they pushed

> us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is next!!

>

> We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific and

> they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can do to

> get back into that car.

>

> If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have no

> other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> patients, etc.

>

> It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare providers

> need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized crime

> that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

>

> Diane

> Valley Rehabilitation

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Regarding Diane's comment:

" Those men and women sit behind their mahogany desks, in their big leather

chairs and dictate our precious health care needs and we sit across from

them with . "

Again folks, if you are content with solutions achieved by battling every

new injustice, you are indeed long-suffering. As you can see by this latest

mess, there is no end to the creativity third parties employ to save money.

And it must also be said, to be fair and honest, that providers here and

there have also been known to display equally nefarious creativity in the

quest for dollars, by ripping off those awful third party payers. Clearly

there is no way for goodness to prevail in a system so loaded with special

interests.

It seems beyond argument that neither third parties, nor second-parties

(i.e. providers), should be making any patient's healthcare decisions.

Whether merely a disreputable new wrinkle in insurance coverage, or forced

compliance with an expensive and inferior government-sponsored drug plan

(which, unsurprisingly, is welcomed by drug companies and drug retailers)

patients are having their rights wiped out.

Please worry less about whether it's providers or insurers that should have

more " duct tape on [their] mouths " and concern yourselves instead with the

rights of patients. Support full and meaningful change for PATIENTS. Support

Healthcare Savings Accounts.

Dave Milano, PT, Director of Rehab Services

Laurel Health System

32-36 Central Ave.

Wellsboro, PA 16901

dmilano@...

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

>

> Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians in

> Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

>

> According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are planning

> to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the insurance

> companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the patients by

> reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an issue,

> just the $$$$.

>

> We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as well.

> And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as patients,

> so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

>

> Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put themselves

> in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger side to

> blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they pushed

> us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is next!!

>

> We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific and

> they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can do to

> get back into that car.

>

> If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have no

> other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> patients, etc.

>

> It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare providers

> need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized crime

> that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

>

> Diane

> Valley Rehabilitation

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Regarding Diane's comment:

" Those men and women sit behind their mahogany desks, in their big leather

chairs and dictate our precious health care needs and we sit across from

them with . "

Again folks, if you are content with solutions achieved by battling every

new injustice, you are indeed long-suffering. As you can see by this latest

mess, there is no end to the creativity third parties employ to save money.

And it must also be said, to be fair and honest, that providers here and

there have also been known to display equally nefarious creativity in the

quest for dollars, by ripping off those awful third party payers. Clearly

there is no way for goodness to prevail in a system so loaded with special

interests.

It seems beyond argument that neither third parties, nor second-parties

(i.e. providers), should be making any patient's healthcare decisions.

Whether merely a disreputable new wrinkle in insurance coverage, or forced

compliance with an expensive and inferior government-sponsored drug plan

(which, unsurprisingly, is welcomed by drug companies and drug retailers)

patients are having their rights wiped out.

Please worry less about whether it's providers or insurers that should have

more " duct tape on [their] mouths " and concern yourselves instead with the

rights of patients. Support full and meaningful change for PATIENTS. Support

Healthcare Savings Accounts.

Dave Milano, PT, Director of Rehab Services

Laurel Health System

32-36 Central Ave.

Wellsboro, PA 16901

dmilano@...

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

>

> Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians in

> Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

>

> According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are planning

> to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the insurance

> companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the patients by

> reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an issue,

> just the $$$$.

>

> We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as well.

> And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as patients,

> so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

>

> Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put themselves

> in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger side to

> blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they pushed

> us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is next!!

>

> We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific and

> they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can do to

> get back into that car.

>

> If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have no

> other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> patients, etc.

>

> It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare providers

> need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized crime

> that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

>

> Diane

> Valley Rehabilitation

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Diane, Dick, et al -

I understand your concerns, but I think we also need to be careful not

to take on a victim mentality. Having met with payers who are actively

looking for ways to control costs as well as maintain choice for their

members, we need to realize that tiered networks, pay for performance

and other models to reimburse providers are coming down the line.

We, as providers, also need to realize we are part of the problem. I

firmly believe we can manage utilization or live with the consequences

of having it managed for us. More than once I have heard payers express

their impression that physical therapists tend to " treat to the benefit "

rather than what is appropriate for the patient's condition. Payers are

going to provide incentives for patients to seek care with providers who

demonstrate that they work to control costs.

Therapeutic Associates has published clinical practice guidelines with

ranges of visits that many payers have used to review utilization data.

We had a BCBS carrier in one state use our guidelines as the basis for

their benefit structure. I was amazed when we had angry providers (both

MDs and PTs) call our office and complain - " Everybody knows it takes at

least 25 visits to treat adhesive capsulitis! " Our outcome system stats

(CareConnections Outcomes / TAOS) show that nationally patients with

this condition achieve a 53% functional improvement, 64% reduction in

pain and report a perceived overall improvement of 75% in an average of

11.4 visits. When we spoke with the payer and other providers involved

in the process, the complainers were the same providers that that the

payer was targeting to contain.

Of course insurance companies are financial institutions (and some are

easier to work with than others), so we can either help them find better

solutions in partnership or simply blame them and ignore our own

" issues " . We have an opportunity to work with payers to make sure that

quality includes more than just financial data - it should include

clinical outcomes, patient satisfaction and other information. As long

as we can come up with well rounded measurements of who the best

providers are, I have no problem with reimbursement structures that

benefit the best of the best.

Respectfully,

Todd Gifford, PT

Therapeutic Associates

www.therapeuticassociates.com

www.careconnections.com

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

>

> Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians in

> Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

>

> According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are planning

> to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the insurance

> companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the patients by

> reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an issue,

> just the $$$$.

>

> We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as well.

> And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as patients,

> so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

>

> Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put themselves

> in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger side to

> blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they pushed

> us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is

next!!

>

> We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific and

> they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can do to

> get back into that car.

>

> If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have no

> other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> patients, etc.

>

> It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare providers

> need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized crime

> that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

>

> Diane

> Valley Rehabilitation

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Just a couple of thoughts ...

The following quote is the first two paragraphs of the article that Diane

referenced:

" Arizona patients can soon learn what their insurers

think of their doctors' quality and ability to control

costs.

Two of the state's largest health insurers are rolling

out programs that will rate physicians. And it could

mean patients will get cheaper co-payments if they

choose doctors who get high marks for both quality of

care and cost efficiency. "

Please notice that the word quality comes before the

word cost in each of the sentences that raise the

issues. It isn't too far fetched to believe that the

folks at the insurance companies are smart enough to

figure out that high quality care is often the most

effective. Personally, I believe this to be true in

the aggregate if not each individual case. No, I have

never worked for an insurer, nor do I plan to.

An easy example to illustrate my point might be the

orthopedic surgeon with an extremely low infection

rate. His/her patients will not require the long term

antibiotic use or increased length of stay that

patients of a physician with a higher infection rate

have. Also, I have heard advertisements from PT owned

clinics in my area touting fewer overall visits = fewer

total $ of copay = better outcome for their patients.

I often wonder if those patients are better sooner

because of some great Pt or if they are merely

discharged a little sooner than they would be from the

competition. Of course, the most important perspective

is the patients and we should all focus on what the

individual patient values in our service, not just cost

or length of treatment.

My two cents.

Trumbull

Director of Rehabilitation Services

BroMenn Regional Medical Center

phone:

fax:

Guest guest
Posted

Todd,

I am concerned when we start letting insurance companies dictate how

much improvement is enough, you state 53% functional improvemet in

11.4 visits, does this mean that is all that should be allowed?

shouldn't our goal as rehab providers be to return our patients to

100% functional improvement if that is a reasonable expectation. I

thought this was the reason " The Guide to PT Practice " was written

in the first place. The second problem I have is with lumping

people by diagnosis. Who gets to make that diagnosis? What about

complicating issues like the patient diagnosed with " adhesive

capsulitis " by the primary care provider in a 5 min exam who really

has cervical issues and not a frozen shoulder at all. I agree that

PT's need to be responsible and treat to the benefit of the patient

and not " to the maximum allowable insurance payout " but I think this

needs to be left in the hands of the PT, not the insurance company.

We need to do a better job of policing ourselves. Thanks for your

input.

E. s, PT, DPT, OCS

s Orthopedic & Spine Rehabilitation, Inc.

Bonita Springs, Fla

> Diane, Dick, et al -

>

> I understand your concerns, but I think we also need to be careful

not

> to take on a victim mentality. Having met with payers who are

actively

> looking for ways to control costs as well as maintain choice for

their

> members, we need to realize that tiered networks, pay for

performance

> and other models to reimburse providers are coming down the line.

>

> We, as providers, also need to realize we are part of the

problem. I

> firmly believe we can manage utilization or live with the

consequences

> of having it managed for us. More than once I have heard payers

express

> their impression that physical therapists tend to " treat to the

benefit "

> rather than what is appropriate for the patient's condition.

Payers are

> going to provide incentives for patients to seek care with

providers who

> demonstrate that they work to control costs.

>

> Therapeutic Associates has published clinical practice guidelines

with

> ranges of visits that many payers have used to review utilization

data.

> We had a BCBS carrier in one state use our guidelines as the basis

for

> their benefit structure. I was amazed when we had angry providers

(both

> MDs and PTs) call our office and complain - " Everybody knows it

takes at

> least 25 visits to treat adhesive capsulitis! " Our outcome system

stats

> (CareConnections Outcomes / TAOS) show that nationally patients

with

> this condition achieve a 53% functional improvement, 64% reduction

in

> pain and report a perceived overall improvement of 75% in an

average of

> 11.4 visits. When we spoke with the payer and other providers

involved

> in the process, the complainers were the same providers that that

the

> payer was targeting to contain.

>

> Of course insurance companies are financial institutions (and some

are

> easier to work with than others), so we can either help them find

better

> solutions in partnership or simply blame them and ignore our own

> " issues " . We have an opportunity to work with payers to make sure

that

> quality includes more than just financial data - it should include

> clinical outcomes, patient satisfaction and other information. As

long

> as we can come up with well rounded measurements of who the best

> providers are, I have no problem with reimbursement structures that

> benefit the best of the best.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Todd Gifford, PT

> Therapeutic Associates

> www.therapeuticassociates.com

> www.careconnections.com

>

>

>

>

> CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

> >

> > Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> > Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians

in

> > Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

> >

> > According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are

planning

> > to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the

insurance

> > companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> > then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the

patients by

> > reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> > physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an

issue,

> > just the $$$$.

> >

> > We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as

well.

> > And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> > because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> > life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as

patients,

> > so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> > physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

> >

> > Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put

themselves

> > in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger

side to

> > blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they

pushed

> > us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> > outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> > they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is

> next!!

> >

> > We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> > that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific

and

> > they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can

do to

> > get back into that car.

> >

> > If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> > providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have

no

> > other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> > trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> > equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> > patients, etc.

> >

> > It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare

providers

> > need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized

crime

> > that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

> >

> > Diane

> > Valley Rehabilitation

> >

> > Looking to start your own Practice?

> > Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional

association.

> > Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Disjounted thoughts on the issue:

1. MSA/ HSA plans sound very good but involve a level of user-

understanding that is complicated for many. Judging by the response

(or the media's take on it) to the medicare prescription plan, the

public may not be ready for such complexity.

2. I was a bit wrong. I got a letter Thursday from MAMSI/ United

saying that the fee schedule and credentialing process will not change.

3. If we purchase for ourselves or choose for our emplyees BAD health

care plans, I believe we are feeding the enemy.

Simonetti, PT, DPT

Chestertown, MD

Guest guest
Posted

Disjounted thoughts on the issue:

1. MSA/ HSA plans sound very good but involve a level of user-

understanding that is complicated for many. Judging by the response

(or the media's take on it) to the medicare prescription plan, the

public may not be ready for such complexity.

2. I was a bit wrong. I got a letter Thursday from MAMSI/ United

saying that the fee schedule and credentialing process will not change.

3. If we purchase for ourselves or choose for our emplyees BAD health

care plans, I believe we are feeding the enemy.

Simonetti, PT, DPT

Chestertown, MD

Guest guest
Posted

Disjounted thoughts on the issue:

1. MSA/ HSA plans sound very good but involve a level of user-

understanding that is complicated for many. Judging by the response

(or the media's take on it) to the medicare prescription plan, the

public may not be ready for such complexity.

2. I was a bit wrong. I got a letter Thursday from MAMSI/ United

saying that the fee schedule and credentialing process will not change.

3. If we purchase for ourselves or choose for our emplyees BAD health

care plans, I believe we are feeding the enemy.

Simonetti, PT, DPT

Chestertown, MD

Guest guest
Posted

& -

Thanks for your comments. Please understand the statistics that I

provided are the averages from over 4800 cases with this diagnosis over

the past 12 months. As with any statistical average, there were

patients that had better functional improvement (as reported by the tool

used) and there were patients that had less improvement. There were

patients that had more visits and those that had less. This is simply

my opinion, but I think anytime the discussion of utilization comes up,

most providers immediately think of their experience of a case that fits

outside the norm.

100% functional improvement is the desired goal for all patients;

however, in reality most outpatient ortho patients will see significant

functional gains early in treatment and then have diminishing gains (per

visit) at a certain point. I do not think most health plans (work comp

payers are a little different) have a problem paying for care up to the

point where the patient starts to plateau, but at that point where gains

become less per dollar spent they would like to encourage discharge.

This is where we need to become better case managers.

I think a lot of providers (PTs and others) are in denial that we are

being profiled by insurance carriers. At this point the payers equate

quality to lower utilization and lower cost - that is the information

they readily have available. If you look at the models being created

for pay for performance or tiered networks, the insurance companies are

not necessarily looking at clinical outcomes but looking at the

characteristics of providers that have good " outcomes " (look at

www.bridgestoexcellence.com). Until they can better define quality,

insurance companies will be rewarding providers that are simply

collecting outcomes, using EMR (electronic medical record) systems,

following established guidelines or protocols, etc. The money spent on

PT in the overall health care system is relatively small, so our

services will probably not be an early target for many of these changes.

Lastly, I would like to go back the original subject line of this

discussion - " CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE " . This is implied

as a negative situation. Is a reduction of additional out of pocket

expense (this is on top of their premiums) for the patient a bad thing?

We are all consumers of health care also. Insurance companies are

responding to our desire to have provider choice, but also trying to

control the rise in premiums. By having tiered co-pay plans, they are

reacting to what the market wants - choice with incentives to control

costs.

Sincerely,

Todd Gifford, PT

Therapeutic Associates

www.therapeuticassociates.com

www.careconnections.com

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

> >

> > Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> > Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians

in

> > Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

> >

> > According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are

planning

> > to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the

insurance

> > companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> > then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the

patients by

> > reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> > physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an

issue,

> > just the $$$$.

> >

> > We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as

well.

> > And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> > because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> > life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as

patients,

> > so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> > physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

> >

> > Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put

themselves

> > in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger

side to

> > blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they

pushed

> > us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> > outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> > they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is

> next!!

> >

> > We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> > that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific

and

> > they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can

do to

> > get back into that car.

> >

> > If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> > providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have

no

> > other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> > trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> > equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> > patients, etc.

> >

> > It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare

providers

> > need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized

crime

> > that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

> >

> > Diane

> > Valley Rehabilitation

> >

> > Looking to start your own Practice?

> > Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional

association.

> > Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

& -

Thanks for your comments. Please understand the statistics that I

provided are the averages from over 4800 cases with this diagnosis over

the past 12 months. As with any statistical average, there were

patients that had better functional improvement (as reported by the tool

used) and there were patients that had less improvement. There were

patients that had more visits and those that had less. This is simply

my opinion, but I think anytime the discussion of utilization comes up,

most providers immediately think of their experience of a case that fits

outside the norm.

100% functional improvement is the desired goal for all patients;

however, in reality most outpatient ortho patients will see significant

functional gains early in treatment and then have diminishing gains (per

visit) at a certain point. I do not think most health plans (work comp

payers are a little different) have a problem paying for care up to the

point where the patient starts to plateau, but at that point where gains

become less per dollar spent they would like to encourage discharge.

This is where we need to become better case managers.

I think a lot of providers (PTs and others) are in denial that we are

being profiled by insurance carriers. At this point the payers equate

quality to lower utilization and lower cost - that is the information

they readily have available. If you look at the models being created

for pay for performance or tiered networks, the insurance companies are

not necessarily looking at clinical outcomes but looking at the

characteristics of providers that have good " outcomes " (look at

www.bridgestoexcellence.com). Until they can better define quality,

insurance companies will be rewarding providers that are simply

collecting outcomes, using EMR (electronic medical record) systems,

following established guidelines or protocols, etc. The money spent on

PT in the overall health care system is relatively small, so our

services will probably not be an early target for many of these changes.

Lastly, I would like to go back the original subject line of this

discussion - " CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE " . This is implied

as a negative situation. Is a reduction of additional out of pocket

expense (this is on top of their premiums) for the patient a bad thing?

We are all consumers of health care also. Insurance companies are

responding to our desire to have provider choice, but also trying to

control the rise in premiums. By having tiered co-pay plans, they are

reacting to what the market wants - choice with incentives to control

costs.

Sincerely,

Todd Gifford, PT

Therapeutic Associates

www.therapeuticassociates.com

www.careconnections.com

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

> >

> > Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> > Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians

in

> > Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

> >

> > According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are

planning

> > to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the

insurance

> > companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> > then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the

patients by

> > reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> > physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an

issue,

> > just the $$$$.

> >

> > We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as

well.

> > And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> > because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> > life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as

patients,

> > so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> > physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

> >

> > Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put

themselves

> > in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger

side to

> > blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they

pushed

> > us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> > outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> > they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is

> next!!

> >

> > We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> > that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific

and

> > they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can

do to

> > get back into that car.

> >

> > If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> > providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have

no

> > other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> > trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> > equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> > patients, etc.

> >

> > It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare

providers

> > need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized

crime

> > that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

> >

> > Diane

> > Valley Rehabilitation

> >

> > Looking to start your own Practice?

> > Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional

association.

> > Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

& -

Thanks for your comments. Please understand the statistics that I

provided are the averages from over 4800 cases with this diagnosis over

the past 12 months. As with any statistical average, there were

patients that had better functional improvement (as reported by the tool

used) and there were patients that had less improvement. There were

patients that had more visits and those that had less. This is simply

my opinion, but I think anytime the discussion of utilization comes up,

most providers immediately think of their experience of a case that fits

outside the norm.

100% functional improvement is the desired goal for all patients;

however, in reality most outpatient ortho patients will see significant

functional gains early in treatment and then have diminishing gains (per

visit) at a certain point. I do not think most health plans (work comp

payers are a little different) have a problem paying for care up to the

point where the patient starts to plateau, but at that point where gains

become less per dollar spent they would like to encourage discharge.

This is where we need to become better case managers.

I think a lot of providers (PTs and others) are in denial that we are

being profiled by insurance carriers. At this point the payers equate

quality to lower utilization and lower cost - that is the information

they readily have available. If you look at the models being created

for pay for performance or tiered networks, the insurance companies are

not necessarily looking at clinical outcomes but looking at the

characteristics of providers that have good " outcomes " (look at

www.bridgestoexcellence.com). Until they can better define quality,

insurance companies will be rewarding providers that are simply

collecting outcomes, using EMR (electronic medical record) systems,

following established guidelines or protocols, etc. The money spent on

PT in the overall health care system is relatively small, so our

services will probably not be an early target for many of these changes.

Lastly, I would like to go back the original subject line of this

discussion - " CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE " . This is implied

as a negative situation. Is a reduction of additional out of pocket

expense (this is on top of their premiums) for the patient a bad thing?

We are all consumers of health care also. Insurance companies are

responding to our desire to have provider choice, but also trying to

control the rise in premiums. By having tiered co-pay plans, they are

reacting to what the market wants - choice with incentives to control

costs.

Sincerely,

Todd Gifford, PT

Therapeutic Associates

www.therapeuticassociates.com

www.careconnections.com

CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

> >

> > Did anyone read the article on the front page of the Arizona

> > Republic, dated today, August 4th.. " Insurers Ranking Physicians

in

> > Valley " (Co-Pay Could Be Tied to Choice of Caregiver).

> >

> > According to the article, Aetna and United Healthcare are

planning

> > to RATE physicians by the amount of money they save the

insurance

> > companies. If the physician is successful in keeping costs down,

> > then Aetna and UHC will 'reward' the physicians and the

patients by

> > reducing the co-pay amount for the patient and recommending that

> > physician to the patient. Quality of patient care is not an

issue,

> > just the $$$$.

> >

> > We as healthcare providers will soon be affected by this as

well.

> > And we as patients ourselves, will most definitely be affected

> > because physicians will be extremely frugal in choosing possibly

> > life saving tests, medications, and procedures for us, as

patients,

> > so that they can earn their 'reward'. According to the article,

> > physicians are not happy about this at all, nor should they be.

> >

> > Once Insurance companies took over as they have and put

themselves

> > in the driver's seat, providers were pushed to the passenger

side to

> > blindly go where the insurance companies dictated. Then they

pushed

> > us out of the car, and ever since, we have been trying to run

> > outside of the car, trying to catch up with them. Now with this,

> > they are running us over! When will this insanity end? What is

> next!!

> >

> > We belong to the APTA and we voice our opinion but it is obvious

> > that too little is being done too late. The APTA is terrific

and

> > they are doing their best but there has to be more that we can

do to

> > get back into that car.

> >

> > If physicins are forced to meet these demands, we as therapy

> > providers will be as well. It is obvious that we all will have

no

> > other choice but to cut our costs, whether it be through less

> > trained personnel, eliminating the purchase of more up-to-date

> > equipment, eliminating certain modalities and procedures for out

> > patients, etc.

> >

> > It seems that physicians and all other types of healthcare

providers

> > need to band together in huge numbers to fight this organized

crime

> > that will bury us all, providers and patients alike.

> >

> > Diane

> > Valley Rehabilitation

> >

> > Looking to start your own Practice?

> > Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional

association.

> > Join and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

Dave;

Interesting points about Insurance status quo being more complicated. In my

case, for the original $200 premium, I had absolutely no coverage every year

until my medical expenses reached $4,800 out of pocket. Interestingly, in

the 8-10 years I have had the coverage, I have never exceeded the $3,600 that

had been set aside in the MSA. That's not to say I never will, I just never

have. When I do go see a provider of my choice, they bill the insurance

company first. This insurance company applies any network discounts involved

and I get the benefit of the write downs. Eventually, I have to write a check

for the bill, but I know how much the provider costs and if price is ever a

concern for me, I can shop the healthcare.

I am always amazed to hear providers talk about their charge master and

their concern that it might scare consumers away. Very few patients ever know

what you charge or care about it. They trust their insurance company to tell

them if the prices are fair or not. When I shop for a healthcare provider, my

first question isn't how much they cost, it's do they know what they are

doing and will I get good healthcare from them.

Just my 2c on a Monday evening,

Jim <///><

Guest guest
Posted

and others,

Just a quick note to say that there is absolutely nothing complex about HSAs

in concept, in fact their simplicity is one of their high points. They only

become complex when regulators get hold of them, as they have already (note

Jim's description of his HSA).

Also it must be said that the existing third-party systems are anything but

simple---they are truly the very definition of complexity. First and

foremost on the list of confused are patients, who are satisfied in the mess

only because providers intervene for them to alleviate confusion, acting

essentially as buffers between the insurance company and the insured. Of

course then the provider becomes the victim as third-parties invent new

wrinkles. It is astounding to me that providers are as quiet as they are

about this. Are we providers not, as succinctly put it, " feeding the

enemy " when we act to soften the difficulties created by insurance

companies? (Medicare is at the top of that particular list, in my opinion.)

I am convinced that current systems, disconnecting as they do the user from

the payer, and as a result getting ever more expensive, will eventually

cause their own collapse (the new Medicare " D " drug plan may be the very

straw that breaks the camel's back). At that point there will be no choice

but to take a hard and honest look at what we have wrought. Then, perhaps,

true HSAs will be given a fighting chance. It is surely a shame that we

cannot give them a chance BEFORE healthcare insurance (government and

otherwise) succeeds in trouncing our economy.

Dave Milano, PT, Director of Rehab Services

Laurel Health System

32-36 Central Ave.

Wellsboro, PA 16901

dmilano@...

Re: CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

Disjounted thoughts on the issue:

1. MSA/ HSA plans sound very good but involve a level of user-

understanding that is complicated for many. Judging by the response

(or the media's take on it) to the medicare prescription plan, the

public may not be ready for such complexity.

2. I was a bit wrong. I got a letter Thursday from MAMSI/ United

saying that the fee schedule and credentialing process will not change.

3. If we purchase for ourselves or choose for our emplyees BAD health

care plans, I believe we are feeding the enemy.

Simonetti, PT, DPT

Chestertown, MD

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

and others,

Just a quick note to say that there is absolutely nothing complex about HSAs

in concept, in fact their simplicity is one of their high points. They only

become complex when regulators get hold of them, as they have already (note

Jim's description of his HSA).

Also it must be said that the existing third-party systems are anything but

simple---they are truly the very definition of complexity. First and

foremost on the list of confused are patients, who are satisfied in the mess

only because providers intervene for them to alleviate confusion, acting

essentially as buffers between the insurance company and the insured. Of

course then the provider becomes the victim as third-parties invent new

wrinkles. It is astounding to me that providers are as quiet as they are

about this. Are we providers not, as succinctly put it, " feeding the

enemy " when we act to soften the difficulties created by insurance

companies? (Medicare is at the top of that particular list, in my opinion.)

I am convinced that current systems, disconnecting as they do the user from

the payer, and as a result getting ever more expensive, will eventually

cause their own collapse (the new Medicare " D " drug plan may be the very

straw that breaks the camel's back). At that point there will be no choice

but to take a hard and honest look at what we have wrought. Then, perhaps,

true HSAs will be given a fighting chance. It is surely a shame that we

cannot give them a chance BEFORE healthcare insurance (government and

otherwise) succeeds in trouncing our economy.

Dave Milano, PT, Director of Rehab Services

Laurel Health System

32-36 Central Ave.

Wellsboro, PA 16901

dmilano@...

Re: CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

Disjounted thoughts on the issue:

1. MSA/ HSA plans sound very good but involve a level of user-

understanding that is complicated for many. Judging by the response

(or the media's take on it) to the medicare prescription plan, the

public may not be ready for such complexity.

2. I was a bit wrong. I got a letter Thursday from MAMSI/ United

saying that the fee schedule and credentialing process will not change.

3. If we purchase for ourselves or choose for our emplyees BAD health

care plans, I believe we are feeding the enemy.

Simonetti, PT, DPT

Chestertown, MD

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

Guest guest
Posted

and others,

Just a quick note to say that there is absolutely nothing complex about HSAs

in concept, in fact their simplicity is one of their high points. They only

become complex when regulators get hold of them, as they have already (note

Jim's description of his HSA).

Also it must be said that the existing third-party systems are anything but

simple---they are truly the very definition of complexity. First and

foremost on the list of confused are patients, who are satisfied in the mess

only because providers intervene for them to alleviate confusion, acting

essentially as buffers between the insurance company and the insured. Of

course then the provider becomes the victim as third-parties invent new

wrinkles. It is astounding to me that providers are as quiet as they are

about this. Are we providers not, as succinctly put it, " feeding the

enemy " when we act to soften the difficulties created by insurance

companies? (Medicare is at the top of that particular list, in my opinion.)

I am convinced that current systems, disconnecting as they do the user from

the payer, and as a result getting ever more expensive, will eventually

cause their own collapse (the new Medicare " D " drug plan may be the very

straw that breaks the camel's back). At that point there will be no choice

but to take a hard and honest look at what we have wrought. Then, perhaps,

true HSAs will be given a fighting chance. It is surely a shame that we

cannot give them a chance BEFORE healthcare insurance (government and

otherwise) succeeds in trouncing our economy.

Dave Milano, PT, Director of Rehab Services

Laurel Health System

32-36 Central Ave.

Wellsboro, PA 16901

dmilano@...

Re: CO-PAY REDUCTION DICTATED BY INSURANCE

Disjounted thoughts on the issue:

1. MSA/ HSA plans sound very good but involve a level of user-

understanding that is complicated for many. Judging by the response

(or the media's take on it) to the medicare prescription plan, the

public may not be ready for such complexity.

2. I was a bit wrong. I got a letter Thursday from MAMSI/ United

saying that the fee schedule and credentialing process will not change.

3. If we purchase for ourselves or choose for our emplyees BAD health

care plans, I believe we are feeding the enemy.

Simonetti, PT, DPT

Chestertown, MD

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

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