Re: TKR

[Guest guest]

I am doing research in this area for myself as well. One thing that I read on

this forum is

to ask how many TKR's your doctor has done? The more the better is the general

rule.

This would hold true for the PT but not as much. The technolgy as been around

for

several years but the knee joint is one of the most complictated (mechanically

speaking)

mechanizims in the body. So new designs are alway becoming available. I have

not found

if there is one or two places in the world were research is being done. I will

be attending a

conferance next month locally and will ask these question and others.

Here is an interesting link I found. It shows you what is involved with a TKR

http://edheads.org/activities/knee/

Don

>

> I'm new to your list and have a few questions regarding TKR. After my

> fourth arthroscope two weeks ago (the first was in 1971)my orthopedist

> said it is time for a TKR. I am a female, slim, small boned and

> relatively active in my early 50s with a husband,teenage son at home

> and an elderly mother in a nursing facility. I work part time at a

> medical facility in the insurance department. I'd like to hear what

> the group has to say about the pros and cons regarding the surgery,

> what questions to ask the surgeon and what factors to consider when

> making a final determination if this is the right move for me.

>

> I have tried medications, anti-inflamatories, cortisone and synvisc.

>

> Any wisdom you can share will be appreciated.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I had TKR in Nov, 2004. My best advice to seek out multiple

opinions. The hospitals that specialize in joint replacements will

also have a program that you must attend along with your caregiver.

This gives you the opportunity to see the replacement parts and ask

questions of the doctors and nurses. It's ususally a group setting

with others that are also preparing for joint replacement. I also

had 3 athroscopies, multiple cortisone shots and Synvisc injections.

Vioxx was my saving grace for 5 years. I was 45 years old and lead

an active life until the year before my surgery. You will know

when you are ready. If it's affecting your quality of life you will

know it's time to have it done. I would ask questions regarding the

type of replacement part you would be getting, what would be your

maximun range of motion after surgery, what is the expected life

span of the replacement and do your research on the doctor. Each

state maintains a database of their licsensed doctors and if they

had any negative action brought against them. I'm glad I had it

done as I have been able to return to my active lifestyle.

>

> I'm new to your list and have a few questions regarding TKR. After

my

> fourth arthroscope two weeks ago (the first was in 1971)my

orthopedist

> said it is time for a TKR. I am a female, slim, small boned and

> relatively active in my early 50s with a husband,teenage son at

home

> and an elderly mother in a nursing facility. I work part time at a

> medical facility in the insurance department. I'd like to hear

what

> the group has to say about the pros and cons regarding the

surgery,

> what questions to ask the surgeon and what factors to consider

when

> making a final determination if this is the right move for me.

>

> I have tried medications, anti-inflamatories, cortisone and

synvisc.

>

> Any wisdom you can share will be appreciated.

>

[Guest guest]

dear elftales, Do you have intolerable pain radiating or not to your legs/stiffness if you are getting really incapacitated and the quality of your life is getting affected then you must go for surgery Modern technology coupled with a good surgeon and good post operative care will really help you recover fast do have all the necessary tests done including bone densitometry test Explore all options for treatment ,incl different geographical ones Choose the best ,ask for approx life of surgery that is prosthesis too check for allergies i had surgery THR and later TKR in bangalore via medbangalore regards best wisheselftales <elftales@...> wrote: I'm new to your list and have a few questions

regarding TKR. After my fourth arthroscope two weeks ago (the first was in 1971)my orthopedist said it is time for a TKR. I am a female, slim, small boned and relatively active in my early 50s with a husband,teenage son at home and an elderly mother in a nursing facility. I work part time at a medical facility in the insurance department. I'd like to hear what the group has to say about the pros and cons regarding the surgery, what questions to ask the surgeon and what factors to consider when making a final determination if this is the right move for me.I have tried medications, anti-inflamatories, cortisone and synvisc.Any wisdom you can share will be appreciated.

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[Guest guest]

June,

Hi, my name is Val, am 51, and had a tkr in 2004. I didn't have any

choice in the matter. The arthrosis had destroyed my knee so bad it

was bone to bone. My opinion is that as long as one can walk without

the aid of anything to not have the surgery.

But if you decide to get it done, please be prepared by changing

your house around so it won't be dangerous for you while you

recuperate. Finding a physio therapist that you are comfortable with

and going as much as you possibly can.

To this date I am not independent and still trying to be. I have had

setbacks.

Good luck!

> I'm new to your list and have a few questions regarding TKR.

After my

> fourth arthroscope two weeks ago (the first was in 1971)my

orthopedist

> said it is time for a TKR. I am a female, slim, small boned and

> relatively active in my early 50s with a husband,teenage son at

home

> and an elderly mother in a nursing facility. I work part time at a

> medical facility in the insurance department. I'd like to hear

what

> the group has to say about the pros and cons regarding the

surgery,

> what questions to ask the surgeon and what factors to consider

when

> making a final determination if this is the right move for me.

>

> I have tried medications, anti-inflamatories, cortisone and

synvisc.

>

> Any wisdom you can share will be appreciated.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi I don't know you, but am very glad that you have found some meds that work. Having the mind free of dark thoughts should help you cope with the rest of your pain. I'll send prayers your way. Coquitlam, BC Canada <susan71353@...> wrote: Hi There,I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long spell of depression since

my total knee replacement August 31, 2004. Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or bend it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin. Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical changed my

anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which has worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd love to hear from you. from Michigan

Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new .

[Guest guest]

I am so very sorry to read of your misfortune with your leg.

That has to be a night mare and then to be so depressed. I have had

two tkrs and both were very successful. I have also dealt with severe

depression and to have the two together is almost more than I can

fathom. Yours is the worst case scenario I have ever heard of. I am

assuming that you have gotten second opinions. I can't understand how

all of this could have gone wrong. what was the competency of your os?

I was having a " down " day myself but after reading your scenario I

decided I had better shape up. I hope you find some positive answers

without having to go to the point of having your leg amputated.

On Oct 27, 2006, at 9:12 AM, wrote:

> Hi There,

>

> I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long

> spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31, 2004.

> Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or bend

> it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been

> walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

> subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come

> hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will

> deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar

> tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after

> this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed

> with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the

> knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything

> is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even

> being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin.

> Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical

> changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which has

> worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide

> and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my

> family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for

> me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if

> that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-

> to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd

> love to hear from you.

>

> from Michigan

>

>

" Relying on God has to begin every day as if nothing had yet been done. "

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you very much for your prayers. The Cymbalta is most of what

helps me now to get through the days since they are so full of pain.

On a different note, my middle daughter moved from Windsor to Coombs,

British Columbia the first of July, I miss her so much. She lives

there with her husband (they aren't doing that well with the

marriage) and their 15 month old daughter (my beautiful little

granddaughter) . She is my 3rd grandchild. They live in the

same house as his mother and step-dad live in, bad situation all

around.

Thanks for yours prayers again, I appreciate them.

> Hi There,

>

> I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long

> spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31,

2004.

> Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or

bend

> it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been

> walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

> subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come

> hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will

> deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar

> tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue

after

> this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed

> with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the

> knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything

> is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even

> being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin.

> Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical

> changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which

has

> worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide

> and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my

> family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference

for

> me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now,

if

> that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-

> to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd

> love to hear from you.

>

> from Michigan

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new

Mail.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

You didn't sign your message with your name but thank you for writing

to me. I have had four opinions that is why I had mentioned I have

exhausted all avenues except for the nerve specialist. We did

research into my OS and he had already scoped my knee once because I

had a torn medial meniscus. Then I fell about six months before my

surgery in a restaurant and smashed the living you know what out of

the knee, that is why I had to make up my mind to have the surgery a

couple years earlier then planned. My OS (whom I won't speak to

anymore because he washed his hands of me because he said there was

nothing else he could do for me) said that my knee was worse then

what the x-rays showed. He did two manipulations after the original

TKR and they helped for a little bit but the scar tissue built back

up to quickly and he was totally against writing out a script for a

CPM Machine for at home for me. I think it would really have helped

me. It helped my girlfriend and after four weeks, she was walking

perfectly.

Anyways, I refuse to feel sorry for myself and if it comes down to an

amputation after this final nerve specialist's opinion (if he can't

do anything or it doesn't help), then I'm going ahead with the

amputation.

Thanks for writing to me.

in Michigan

>

> > Hi There,

> >

> > I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long

> > spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31,

2004.

> > Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or

bend

> > it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been

> > walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

> > subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come

> > hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor

will

> > deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar

> > tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue

after

> > this and my only option (which I have thought through and

discussed

> > with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above

the

> > knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but

anything

> > is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day

even

> > being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin.

> > Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical

> > changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta

which has

> > worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide

> > and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my

> > family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference

for

> > me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while

now, if

> > that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum

up-

> > to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response,

I'd

> > love to hear from you.

> >

> > from Michigan

> >

> >

> " Relying on God has to begin every day as if nothing had yet been

done. "

>

[Guest guest]

Oh my. I swear by the cpm machine. I came out of surgery both times

with one and had it for three weeks at home. I really believe it kept

my knee limber to the point that it didn't allow the adhesions to set

in. I can't imagine a OS just throwing up his hands and saying you

have to live with it. If it were me (and i hate to say this) I think I

would be finding a good lawyer. Your OS has done permanent damage to

you and that is unforgivable in my thinking. I wonder if a

manipulation again and the use of a CPM machine would be of benefit to

you. I had my leg in the machine all night and it didn't bother me one

bit. In fact it felt good and I know it kept my leg from getting

stiff. I know I had a good recovery on both legs but I had a good

doctor and good therapy and good results. Yours went drastically wrong

somewhere and to have your leg amputated is a very drastic measure. I

would exhaust all avenues before going that far. I hope you can find

some peace with this and results. I feel just terrible for you.

Elaine

On Oct 27, 2006, at 12:31 PM, wrote:

> Hello,

>

> You didn't sign your message with your name but thank you for writing

> to me. I have had four opinions that is why I had mentioned I have

> exhausted all avenues except for the nerve specialist. We did

> research into my OS and he had already scoped my knee once because I

> had a torn medial meniscus. Then I fell about six months before my

> surgery in a restaurant and smashed the living you know what out of

> the knee, that is why I had to make up my mind to have the surgery a

> couple years earlier then planned. My OS (whom I won't speak to

> anymore because he washed his hands of me because he said there was

> nothing else he could do for me) said that my knee was worse then

> what the x-rays showed. He did two manipulations after the original

> TKR and they helped for a little bit but the scar tissue built back

> up to quickly and he was totally against writing out a script for a

> CPM Machine for at home for me. I think it would really have helped

> me. It helped my girlfriend and after four weeks, she was walking

> perfectly.

>

> Anyways, I refuse to feel sorry for myself and if it comes down to an

> amputation after this final nerve specialist's opinion (if he can't

> do anything or it doesn't help), then I'm going ahead with the

> amputation.

>

> Thanks for writing to me.

>

> in Michigan

>

>

> >

> > > Hi There,

> > >

> > > I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long

> > > spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31,

> 2004.

> > > Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or

> bend

> > > it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been

> > > walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

> > > subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come

> > > hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor

> will

> > > deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar

> > > tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue

> after

> > > this and my only option (which I have thought through and

> discussed

> > > with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above

> the

> > > knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but

> anything

> > > is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day

> even

> > > being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin.

> > > Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical

> > > changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta

> which has

> > > worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide

> > > and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my

> > > family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference

> for

> > > me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while

> now, if

> > > that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum

> up-

> > > to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response,

> I'd

> > > love to hear from you.

> > >

> > > from Michigan

> > >

> > >

> > " Relying on God has to begin every day as if nothing had yet been

> done. "

> >

>

>

I am too blessed to be stressed

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

I did have a CPM machine in the hospital, had two manipulations but

with no CPM machine at home after that. Last October 27th, one year

ago, had some if not most of the scar tissue cut away by my 3rd

opinion doctor and had a CPM machine at home but it didn't help, the

scar tissue built back up to quickly. Went to see a U of M OS

Specialist in Ann Arbor, MI where they are supposed to have the

cutting edge of technology and had a cat scan done, all component

parts are correct and that is where I'm at now, going to see a Nerve

Specialist to hopefully deaden the nerves in the knee to be able to

work through the scar tissue without pain. If this doesn't work, I

will then have my leg amputated above the knee. I just can't stand

the pain anymore and refuse to live with it the rest of my life. I'm

only 53 years young.

Thanks for writing Elaine.

> > >

> > > > Hi There,

> > > >

> > > > I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a

long

> > > > spell of depression since my total knee replacement August

31,

> > 2004.

> > > > Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my

knee or

> > bend

> > > > it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have

been

> > > > walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

> > > > subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will

come

> > > > hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor

> > will

> > > > deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the

scar

> > > > tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all

avenue

> > after

> > > > this and my only option (which I have thought through and

> > discussed

> > > > with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated

above

> > the

> > > > knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but

> > anything

> > > > is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day

> > even

> > > > being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and

Neurontin.

> > > > Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care

physical

> > > > changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta

> > which has

> > > > worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was

suicide

> > > > and treated my husband so badly along with other members of

my

> > > > family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big

difference

> > for

> > > > me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while

> > now, if

> > > > that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this

forum

> > up-

> > > > to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a

response,

> > I'd

> > > > love to hear from you.

> > > >

> > > > from Michigan

> > > >

> > > >

> > > " Relying on God has to begin every day as if nothing had yet

been

> > done. "

> > >

> >

> >

> I am too blessed to be stressed

>

[Guest guest]

I know you are not seeking pitty but I feel so sorry for you. i

know how bad the constant pain is and can't imagine going through all

you have been through and still have pain that they say you may have

forever. OUCH and double OUCH.I hope you get some positive solution

besides amputation. That is so drastic.

On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:03 PM, wrote:

> Elaine,

>

> I did have a CPM machine in the hospital, had two manipulations but

> with no CPM machine at home after that. Last October 27th, one year

> ago, had some if not most of the scar tissue cut away by my 3rd

> opinion doctor and had a CPM machine at home but it didn't help, the

> scar tissue built back up to quickly. Went to see a U of M OS

> Specialist in Ann Arbor, MI where they are supposed to have the

> cutting edge of technology and had a cat scan done, all component

> parts are correct and that is where I'm at now, going to see a Nerve

> Specialist to hopefully deaden the nerves in the knee to be able to

> work through the scar tissue without pain. If this doesn't work, I

> will then have my leg amputated above the knee. I just can't stand

> the pain anymore and refuse to live with it the rest of my life. I'm

> only 53 years young.

>

> Thanks for writing Elaine.

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > Hi There,

> > > > >

> > > > > I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a

> long

> > > > > spell of depression since my total knee replacement August

> 31,

> > > 2004.

> > > > > Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my

> knee or

> > > bend

> > > > > it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have

> been

> > > > > walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

> > > > > subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will

> come

> > > > > hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor

> > > will

> > > > > deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the

> scar

> > > > > tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all

> avenue

> > > after

> > > > > this and my only option (which I have thought through and

> > > discussed

> > > > > with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated

> above

> > > the

> > > > > knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but

> > > anything

> > > > > is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day

> > > even

> > > > > being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and

> Neurontin.

> > > > > Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care

> physical

> > > > > changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta

> > > which has

> > > > > worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was

> suicide

> > > > > and treated my husband so badly along with other members of

> my

> > > > > family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big

> difference

> > > for

> > > > > me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while

> > > now, if

> > > > > that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this

> forum

> > > up-

> > > > > to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a

> response,

> > > I'd

> > > > > love to hear from you.

> > > > >

> > > > > from Michigan

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > " Relying on God has to begin every day as if nothing had yet

> been

> > > done. "

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > I am too blessed to be stressed

> >

>

>

The cross is the only ladder high enough to touch Heaven's threshold.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Elaine, you are sweet. Life is to short to feel sorry for

ones self and I don't. I can't waste precious time sueing the stupid

OS either even though I probably could and would win, don't have time

for it. I just want to go on with my life. Thanks for writing.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi There,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through

a

> > long

> > > > > > spell of depression since my total knee replacement

August

> > 31,

> > > > 2004.

> > > > > > Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my

> > knee or

> > > > bend

> > > > > > it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I

have

> > been

> > > > > > walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had

three

> > > > > > subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope

will

> > come

> > > > > > hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this

doctor

> > > > will

> > > > > > deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through

the

> > scar

> > > > > > tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all

> > avenue

> > > > after

> > > > > > this and my only option (which I have thought through and

> > > > discussed

> > > > > > with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated

> > above

> > > > the

> > > > > > knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain

but

> > > > anything

> > > > > > is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of

every day

> > > > even

> > > > > > being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and

> > Neurontin.

> > > > > > Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care

> > physical

> > > > > > changed my anti-depressant medication in August to

Cymbalta

> > > > which has

> > > > > > worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was

> > suicide

> > > > > > and treated my husband so badly along with other members

of

> > my

> > > > > > family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big

> > difference

> > > > for

> > > > > > me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great

while

> > > > now, if

> > > > > > that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on

this

> > forum

> > > > up-

> > > > > > to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a

> > response,

> > > > I'd

> > > > > > love to hear from you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > from Michigan

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > " Relying on God has to begin every day as if nothing had

yet

> > been

> > > > done. "

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > I am too blessed to be stressed

> > >

> >

> >

> The cross is the only ladder high enough to touch Heaven's

threshold.

>

[Guest guest]

Life is short but You have to think of long term medical problems with

this leg. You want be sure you have enough money to cover what ever

you will have to do in the future related to this botched up job that

your insurance might decide not to cover. I don't like the idea of

suing any one but i also don't want to get in a position that I am

handicapped because my insurance won't cover necessary treatment due to

the fault of the OS

On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:43 PM, wrote:

> Thanks Elaine, you are sweet. Life is to short to feel sorry for

> ones self and I don't. I can't waste precious time sueing the stupid

> OS either even though I probably could and would win, don't have time

> for it. I just want to go on with my life. Thanks for writing.

>

>

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi There,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through

> a

> > > long

> > > > > > > spell of depression since my total knee replacement

> August

> > > 31,

> > > > > 2004.

> > > > > > > Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my

> > > knee or

> > > > > bend

> > > > > > > it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I

> have

> > > been

> > > > > > > walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had

> three

> > > > > > > subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope

> will

> > > come

> > > > > > > hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this

> doctor

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through

> the

> > > scar

> > > > > > > tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all

> > > avenue

> > > > > after

> > > > > > > this and my only option (which I have thought through and

> > > > > discussed

> > > > > > > with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated

> > > above

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain

> but

> > > > > anything

> > > > > > > is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of

> every day

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and

> > > Neurontin.

> > > > > > > Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care

> > > physical

> > > > > > > changed my anti-depressant medication in August to

> Cymbalta

> > > > > which has

> > > > > > > worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was

> > > suicide

> > > > > > > and treated my husband so badly along with other members

> of

> > > my

> > > > > > > family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big

> > > difference

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great

> while

> > > > > now, if

> > > > > > > that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on

> this

> > > forum

> > > > > up-

> > > > > > > to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a

> > > response,

> > > > > I'd

> > > > > > > love to hear from you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > from Michigan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > " Relying on God has to begin every day as if nothing had

> yet

> > > been

> > > > > done. "

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > I am too blessed to be stressed

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > The cross is the only ladder high enough to touch Heaven's

> threshold.

> >

>

>

" If God brings you to it He will bring you through it. "

[Guest guest]

-- I'm horrified at what you've had to go through. Please tell us what the subsequent surgeries did, and was it the same OS? Are you currently seeing the original OS who did the first surgery? If so, I think you should take a black marker & cover his name up in your phone book & find someone else. Sometimes, in a smallish town, or if doctors belong to the same organization, they won't contradict each other, so watch out for that.

DON'T GET YOUR LEG AMPUTATED!!!! There has to be a solution that will save your knee. Would it be possible for you to see someone at one of the big name hospitals, just for a consultation? Where, more or less, do you live?

I'm glad you got a better anti-depressant. I'm so sorry you've felt so bad for so long. Keep in touch with us. I'm sure we can help you get through this.

Ann S.

Hi There,I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31, 2004. Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or bend it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin. Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which has worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd love to hear from you. from Michigan

[Guest guest]

Ann I sure agree with you about not having her leg amputated. I

think her going to a major hospital for a consultation would be very

wise. What bout a teaching hospital. I would persue this farther

before even thinking of having my leg amputated.

On Oct 27, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Ann wrote:

>  

>> -- I'm horrified at what you've had to go through.  Please tell

>> us what the subsequent surgeries did, and was it the same OS?   Are

>> you currently seeing the original OS who did the first surgery?  If

>> so, I think you should take a black marker & cover his name up in

>> your phone book & find someone else.  Sometimes, in a smallish town,

>> or if doctors belong to the same organization, they won't contradict

>> each other, so watch out for that.

>>  

>> DON'T GET YOUR LEG AMPUTATED!!!!  There has to be a solution that

>> will save your knee.  Would it be possible for you to see someone at

>> one of the big name hospitals, just for a consultation?  Where, more

>> or less, do you live?

>>  

>> I'm glad you got a better anti-depressant.  I'm so sorry you've felt

>> so bad for so long.  Keep in touch with us.  I'm sure we can help you

>> get through this.

>>  

>> Ann S.

>>

>>

>> Hi There,

>>

>> I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long

>> spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31, 2004.

>> Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or bend

>> it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been

>> walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

>> subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come

>> hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will

>> deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar

>> tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after

>> this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed

>> with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the

>> knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything

>> is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even

>> being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin.

>> Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical

>> changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which has

>> worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide

>> and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my

>> family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for

>> me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if

>> that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-

>> to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd

>> love to hear from you.

>>

>> from Michigan

>>

>

" the church is not suppose to be a country club for the saints, but

rather a hospital for the sinner. "

[Guest guest]



One thought about teaching hospitals. I used to have one as my HMO provider (UC , CA). It was so huge nobody gave a damn about patients. They were mainly concerned about teaching their interns. I had to make sure when I had my lateral release that the actual OS was going to do the work. He said "Of course! I always do my own work!" But who knows how it would have gone if I hadn't specifically said I wanted it to be him. After all, the interns have to learn on someone. Also, it was so big I had to wait months for appts, they had a huge turnover in non-med staff, they lied to me to keep me from seeing a doctor they were in the process of getting rid of (even though he was very good [he had operated on my son years earlier] -- he probably had objected to their cutting staff too many times). Also my dermatologist, who was the best in town, left them because of their administrative policies.

Maybe an OS who is the team doc for a major sports team. I had one of those once. I figured he had to know what he was doing. He took me on as a patient even though I was a middle-aged woman & not a 6'7" 20-y.o. male basketball player. Treated me the same (until he had a stroke, then he was Mr. Hyde).

Ann S.

Re: TKR

Ann I sure agree with you about not having her leg amputated. I think her going to a major hospital for a consultation would be very wise. What bout a teaching hospital. I would persue this farther before even thinking of having my leg amputated.On Oct 27, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Ann wrote:

-- I'm horrified at what you've had to go through. Please tell us what the subsequent surgeries did, and was it the same OS? Are you currently seeing the original OS who did the first surgery? If so, I think you should take a black marker & cover his name up in your phone book & find someone else. Sometimes, in a smallish town, or if doctors belong to the same organization, they won't contradict each other, so watch out for that. DON'T GET YOUR LEG AMPUTATED!!!! There has to be a solution that will save your knee. Would it be possible for you to see someone at one of the big name hospitals, just for a consultation? Where, more or less, do you live? I'm glad you got a better anti-depressant. I'm so sorry you've felt so bad for so long. Keep in touch with us. I'm sure we can help you get through this. Ann S.Hi There,I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31, 2004. Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or bend it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin. Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which has worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd love to hear from you. from Michigan "the church is not suppose to be a country club for the saints, but rather a hospital for the sinner. "

[Guest guest]

It is hard to know. I know friends who have had well know sports team

doctors do their tkr's and they have had more trouble than i did.

sometimes I think the sports drs are so used to working on the tough

guys who are in great shape that they don't know how to treat us

regular people. My dr. does lots of them and came highly recommended.

I guess I worded my thought wrong about a teaching hospital. i am

really thinking of a renowned OS in tkr's possibly at one of the major

hospitals?

On Oct 27, 2006, at 8:03 PM, Ann wrote:

> One thought about teaching hospitals.  I used to have one as my HMO

> provider (UC , CA).  It was so huge nobody gave a damn about

> patients.  They were mainly concerned about teaching their interns.  I

> had to make sure when I had my lateral release that the actual OS was

> going to do the work.  He said " Of course!  I always do my own work! "  

> But who knows how it would have gone if I hadn't specifically said I

> wanted it to be him.  After all, the interns have to learn on

> someone.  Also, it was so big I had to wait months for appts, they had

> a huge turnover in non-med staff, they lied to me to keep me from

> seeing a doctor they were in the process of getting rid of (even

> though he was very good [he had operated on my son years earlier] --

> he probably had objected to their cutting staff too many times).  Also

> my dermatologist, who was the best in town, left them because of their

> administrative policies.

>  

> Maybe an OS who is the team doc for a major sports team.  I had one of

> those once.  I figured he had  to know what he was doing.  He took me

> on as a patient even though I was a middle-aged woman & not a 6'7 "

> 20-y.o. male basketball player.  Treated me the same (until he had a

> stroke, then he was Mr. Hyde).

>  

> Ann S.

>> Re: TKR

>>

>> Ann I sure agree with you about not having her leg amputated. I

>> think her going to a major hospital for a consultation would be very

>> wise. What bout a teaching hospital. I would persue this farther

>> before even thinking of having my leg amputated.

>> On Oct 27, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Ann wrote:

>>

>>>  

>>>> -- I'm horrified at what you've had to go through.  Please

>>>> tell us what the subsequent surgeries did, and was it the same

>>>> OS?   Are you currently seeing the original OS who did the first

>>>> surgery?  If so, I think you should take a black marker & cover his

>>>> name up in your phone book & find someone else.  Sometimes, in a

>>>> smallish town, or if doctors belong to the same organization, they

>>>> won't contradict each other, so watch out for that.

>>>>  

>>>> DON'T GET YOUR LEG AMPUTATED!!!!  There has to be a solution that

>>>> will save your knee.  Would it be possible for you to see someone

>>>> at one of the big name hospitals, just for a consultation?  Where,

>>>> more or less, do you live?

>>>>  

>>>> I'm glad you got a better anti-depressant.  I'm so sorry you've

>>>> felt so bad for so long.  Keep in touch with us.  I'm sure we can

>>>> help you get through this.

>>>>  

>>>> Ann S.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Hi There,

>>>>

>>>> I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long

>>>> spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31, 2004.

>>>> Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or

>>>> bend

>>>> it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been

>>>> walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three

>>>> subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come

>>>> hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will

>>>> deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar

>>>> tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after

>>>> this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed

>>>> with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the

>>>> knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything

>>>> is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even

>>>> being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin.

>>>> Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical

>>>> changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which

>>>> has

>>>> worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide

>>>> and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my

>>>> family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for

>>>> me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if

>>>> that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-

>>>> to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd

>>>> love to hear from you.

>>>>

>>>> from Michigan

>>>>

>>>

>> " the church is not suppose to be a country club for the saints, but

>> rather a hospital for the sinner. "

>>

>>

>

" If God brings you to it He will bring you through it. "

[Guest guest]

Horrified as well. Do not get your leg amputated. There

has to be help. Unbelievable!!

Sherry

Re: TKR

-- I'm horrified at what you've had to go through. Please tell us what the subsequent surgeries did, and was it the same OS? Are you currently seeing the original OS who did the first surgery? If so, I think you should take a black marker & cover his name up in your phone book & find someone else. Sometimes, in a smallish town, or if doctors belong to the same organization, they won't contradict each other, so watch out for that.

DON'T GET YOUR LEG AMPUTATED!!!! There has to be a solution that will save your knee. Would it be possible for you to see someone at one of the big name hospitals, just for a consultation? Where, more or less, do you live?

I'm glad you got a better anti-depressant. I'm so sorry you've felt so bad for so long. Keep in touch with us. I'm sure we can help you get through this.

Ann S.

Hi There,I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31, 2004. Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or bend it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin. Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which has worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd love to hear from you. from Michigan

[Guest guest]



the problem is our American system has become to socialized like

Canada and has gone down hill from there. Medicine was much

better when doctors made house calls and had PRIVATE PRACTICES.

There were NO HMO's. Now doctors have a slew of people just to

do paperwork and things in the medical profession have gone to hell

in a handcart. When the #1 cause of death in the US are medical

mistakes you know there is a huge problem. It never used to be

this way. The US was #1 in health care. Pretty much like our

public school system.

Sherry

Re: TKR

Ann I sure agree with you about not having her leg amputated. I think her going to a major hospital for a consultation would be very wise. What bout a teaching hospital. I would persue this farther before even thinking of having my leg amputated.On Oct 27, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Ann wrote:

-- I'm horrified at what you've had to go through. Please tell us what the subsequent surgeries did, and was it the same OS? Are you currently seeing the original OS who did the first surgery? If so, I think you should take a black marker & cover his name up in your phone book & find someone else. Sometimes, in a smallish town, or if doctors belong to the same organization, they won't contradict each other, so watch out for that. DON'T GET YOUR LEG AMPUTATED!!!! There has to be a solution that will save your knee. Would it be possible for you to see someone at one of the big name hospitals, just for a consultation? Where, more or less, do you live? I'm glad you got a better anti-depressant. I'm so sorry you've felt so bad for so long. Keep in touch with us. I'm sure we can help you get through this. Ann S.Hi There,I haven't written in a very long time. Have gone through a long spell of depression since my total knee replacement August 31, 2004. Since that time, have not been able to straighten out my knee or bend it. My knee is locked in a very painful position and I have been walking with a cane ever since my surgery. I have had three subsequent surgeries with no good results. My last hope will come hopefully soon with a nerve specialist. Hopefully this doctor will deaden the nerves in my knee to where I can work through the scar tissue to be able to move my knee. I have exhausted all avenue after this and my only option (which I have thought through and discussed with my husband and doctors) is to have my leg amputated above the knee. I know that I would still be facing phantom pain but anything is better then pain every minute, of every hour, of every day even being on pain meds. I'm on high doses of Percocet and Neurontin. Hopefully I won't have to go this route. My primary care physical changed my anti-depressant medication in August to Cymbalta which has worked wonders for me. Every day all I could think of was suicide and treated my husband so badly along with other members of my family, friends, and doctors. Cymbalta has made a big difference for me. I don't think of suicide but every once in a great while now, if that. I just wanted to get some people who know me on this forum up-to-date on what was going on with me. If anyone has a response, I'd love to hear from you. from Michigan"the church is not suppose to be a country club for the saints, but rather a hospital for the sinner. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherry,

I saw that you said the #1 cause of death in the US is medical mistakes.

Can you tell me if you have evidence for this? Research? Numbers?

I would love to be able to provide evidence of this in some work I am doing.

Aussie Margaret

RTHR 1990 revised 2004

Re: TKR

the problem is our American system has become to socialized like

Canada and has gone down hill from there. Medicine was much

better when doctors made house calls and had PRIVATE PRACTICES.

There were NO HMO's. Now doctors have a slew of people just to

do paperwork and things in the medical profession have gone to hell

in a handcart. When the #1 cause of death in the US are medical

mistakes you know there is a huge problem. It never used to be

this way. The US was #1 in health care. Pretty much like our

public school system.

Sherry

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

American medicine has become the opposite of socialized. It's become for-profit. This causes the Big Businesses that own them to slash everything they can, including treatments, to make big profits for their investors and obscene salaries, bonuses, and retirements for their execs. They invented the HMO model. It was that that stopped house calls. And the insurance companies discovered that they could make a lot more profit by denying services, keeping office visits to 15 min (how ridiculous is that?), reducing access to expensive tests that could save lives, like MRIs. And a lot of doctors for some incomprehensible reason bought into it (I don't mean they chose it -- they didn't have a choice, but they Believed). If the AMA had risen up and roared loud enough in 1991 when it all started, they could have prevented it, but they didn't. The only reason I can think of is that doctors thought they were gods back then and maybe assumed that they couldn't be hurt by the change. Now they get paid less & punished (in some clinics) for Rx'ing MRIs or referrals. When I had my horrible back pain for 2 years back in '94-'96, I asked my doc to refer me to an orthopedist so he could evaluate my spine (I'd had an acute injury of indeterminate cause that resulted in my whole body being in pain) and she said "Oh, you don't need an orthopedist" because she had a small practice and any money paid to a specialist would have to come out of her pocket. That's why there are fewer independent doctors nowadays. And wait till you get on Medicare. Good luck finding a doc if you're a new patient. Our "socialized" medicine doesn't pay them enough. 80% of docs here in Olympia won't take new Medicare patients. And I found out that the medi-gap your insurance may offer doesn't pay the doc the difference between what Medicare pays and what your insurance would normally pay (with you paying 20% of that, of course) -- the doc gets no more than what Medicare pays (which is only 80% of what they say the cost should be). The difference is that you don't have to cough up the Medicare 20% -- your medigap covers that. So having medigap won't get you a doc if that doc doesn't take new Medicare patients. "New" means you've never seen that particular doc before. So if you come down with kidney failure & need a nephrologist, forget it if you're on Medicare. Make sure you contract all your diseases before you hit 65.

Ann S.

Re: TKRthe problem is our American system has become to socialized likeCanada and has gone down hill from there. Medicine was muchbetter when doctors made house calls and had PRIVATE PRACTICES.There were NO HMO's. Now doctors have a slew of people just todo paperwork and things in the medical profession have gone to hellin a handcart. When the #1 cause of death in the US are medicalmistakes you know there is a huge problem. It never used to bethis way. The US was #1 in health care. Pretty much like ourpublic school system.SherrySend instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

I know Canadians where coming down to the US in

droves a few years ago because they had to wait

months for treatment and MRI's up there now I

think that has changed. I know about the medigap

stuff yes. I'm only just 62 yesterday. I'll make sure

I get supplemental insurance. My husband is 66 and

never signed up for Medicare, the guy is never sick.

I told him he is nuts. Our neighbor signed up for

some supplemental insurance and her latest hospital

bill was all paid between Medicare and the supplemental.

At the rate I'm going, I'll probably be cremains by the

time I reach 65 anyhow.

Socialized means anything the government is involved

in which of coarse Medicare and Medicaid are. Give me

privatized anytime with the exception of utilities which

are now being sold to overseas companies which can

raise rate as high as they want. thankfully we have our

own well. God help any government official who tries to

put a meter on it.

Sherry

Sherry

Re: TKRthe problem is our American system has become to socialized likeCanada and has gone down hill from there. Medicine was muchbetter when doctors made house calls and had PRIVATE PRACTICES.There were NO HMO's. Now doctors have a slew of people just todo paperwork and things in the medical profession have gone to hellin a handcart. When the #1 cause of death in the US are medicalmistakes you know there is a huge problem. It never used to bethis way. The US was #1 in health care. Pretty much like ourpublic school system.SherrySend instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

I have read this and also heard it on the news half a

dozen times. You can probably find it on the net.

If I have time I'll send it along. I'm sure I sent it once

already awhile back either to this or the other knee

list. What is your addy so I don't clutter up the list

with repeat stuff?

Sherry

Re: TKRthe problem is our American system has become to socialized likeCanada and has gone down hill from there. Medicine was muchbetter when doctors made house calls and had PRIVATE PRACTICES.There were NO HMO's. Now doctors have a slew of people just todo paperwork and things in the medical profession have gone to hellin a handcart. When the #1 cause of death in the US are medicalmistakes you know there is a huge problem. It never used to bethis way. The US was #1 in health care. Pretty much like ourpublic school system.SherrySend instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

S.A.M.--

The healthcare sysytem in the US is anything but socialized. It has become a purely private business, with all the corner-cutting and minimum service provision and maximum charge that the insurance companies can get away with.

If you want someone to blame for this, blame, in order of importance: 1) the Republican Party, which defeated the Clinton healthcare bill (and felt very proud of itself for doing so, btw); 2) the insurance companies that lobbied to kill the healthcare bill, and; 3) the AMA, which supported the insurance companies.

Healthcare has gone to Hell in a breadbasket in the US, to the point where I'm very happy that my healthcare is socialized. To explain what that means, very simply: I pay a premium, which is a certain percentage of my income, for a "basic package" of services, defined by the Ministry of Health, and uniform throughout the healthcare sector, which is actually operated by about half-a dozen "sick funds"... private companies that provide services in accordance with the Ministry of Health requirements, and under its auspices.

Anyone wanting additional insurance pays for the extras, either as they happen, or in a monthly premium to cover certain possibilities. My sick fund had the levels of additions, each with more treatments covered than the previous level.

For two THRs, I paid absolutely nothing. This includes: all preliminary lab tests, imaging requirements, etc., stay in hospital, surgery, anesthesiologist, PT in the hospital, transportation home after surgery in a private ambulance, 6 weeks of home visit PT and 6 weeks of outpatient PT at my local sick fund clinic, and all follow-up blood tests and imaging. The only thing I paid for were the 10 days of anticoagulants after release from the hospital and the bandages I covered the surgical incision with for 2 weeks (and the health fund paid 75% of the meds, 50% of the dressings).

After my first surgery, I found out that THRs and TKRs are included in the "basic package". In other words, necessary surgery is available to all, no matter what their financial situation. Granted, there are sometimes waiting lists, depending on the particular hospital you choose, and you may not necessarily be able to choose your surgeon (working in the medical device industry, I had enough connections to be able to choose), but the services are available to all, and affordable to all.

That's what socialized medicine is supposed to be about... (and the doctors don't complain, either).

It could be germane to note that part of the high cost in health care is the "lawsuit mania"... the company I worked for stopped exporting devices to the US because the legal costs for fighting frivolous lawsuits was too high to make it worthwhile. Manufacturer's journals have noted that a large number of European manufacturers have done the same, including chemical supply companies, such as du Pont (France), who are the sole suppliers for certain raw materials that go into artificial heart valves. Suing everyone down to the janitor who cleaned the OR and the company that pumped the crude petroleum used to make the plastic of a medical device are counter-productive, and will, in the long run, guarantee that a) there will be a mass exodus overseas for treatments that become unavailable in the US due to lack of devices or materials to manufacture them, and a black market of such devices and materials in the US, driving their cost up even more.

The only people who get rich off these lawsuits are the lawyers, the people who actually suffered a loss get peanuts (if the decision is in their favor at all).

Greywolf - RTHR-2003; LTHR-2004

mdavison@...

From: Joint Replacement [mailto:Joint Replacement ] On Behalf Of Ann Sent: 29 October, 2006 1:38 AMJoint Replacement Subject: Re: TKR

American medicine has become the opposite of socialized. It's become for-profit. This causes the Big Businesses that own them to slash everything they can, including treatments, to make big profits for their investors and obscene salaries, bonuses, and retirements for their execs. They invented the HMO model. It was that that stopped house calls. And the insurance companies discovered that they could make a lot more profit by denying services, keeping office visits to 15 min (how ridiculous is that?), reducing access to expensive tests that could save lives, like MRIs. And a lot of doctors for some incomprehensible reason bought into it (I don't mean they chose it -- they didn't have a choice, but they Believed). If the AMA had risen up and roared loud enough in 1991 when it all started, they could have prevented it, but they didn't. The only reason I can think of is that doctors thought they were gods back then and maybe assumed that they couldn't be hurt by the change. Now they get paid less & punished (in some clinics) for Rx'ing MRIs or referrals. When I had my horrible back pain for 2 years back in '94-'96, I asked my doc to refer me to an orthopedist so he could evaluate my spine (I'd had an acute injury of indeterminate cause that resulted in my whole body being in pain) and she said "Oh, you don't need an orthopedist" because she had a small practice and any money paid to a specialist would have to come out of her pocket. That's why there are fewer independent doctors nowadays. And wait till you get on Medicare. Good luck finding a doc if you're a new patient. Our "socialized" medicine doesn't pay them enough. 80% of docs here in Olympia won't take new Medicare patients. And I found out that the medi-gap your insurance may offer doesn't pay the doc the difference between what Medicare pays and what your insurance would normally pay (with you paying 20% of that, of course) -- the doc gets no more than what Medicare pays (which is only 80% of what they say the cost should be). The difference is that you don't have to cough up the Medicare 20% -- your medigap covers that. So having medigap won't get you a doc if that doc doesn't take new Medicare patients. "New" means you've never seen that particular doc before. So if you come down with kidney failure & need a nephrologist, forget it if you're on Medicare. Make sure you contract all your diseases before you hit 65.

Ann S.

Re: TKRthe problem is our American system has become to socialized likeCanada and has gone down hill from there. Medicine was muchbetter when doctors made house calls and had PRIVATE PRACTICES.There were NO HMO's. Now doctors have a slew of people just todo paperwork and things in the medical profession have gone to hellin a handcart. When the #1 cause of death in the US are medicalmistakes you know there is a huge problem. It never used to bethis way. The US was #1 in health care. Pretty much like ourpublic school system.Sherry

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[Guest guest]

Sherry--

Why can't you believe that it doesn't? First of all, there is no "suing mania" here... so healthcare providers' insurance rates are far lower than the ones in the US (this is a major item in the cost accounting of US healthcare providers).

Few people carry only the "basic package"... many take out the additions, and pay for them at a realistic rate. The fact that few people use the additional coverage to the maximum makes up part of the difference. The budget of the Ministry of Health makes up any shortfall, which has not been much in recent years.

The "sick funds" providing the actual care have streamlined themselves for service efficiency over the years, and provide realistic treatment on the basis of need, and not cost. MRIs, which I see on this board frequently, are normally not prescribed for joint replacements... x-rays are generally sufficient for diagnosing.

Instead of believing the horror stories of the lobbyists, take a look at places where the socialzed medicine systems actually work... and if you feel you must, you can always "go private"... that option is not taken away from you.

BTW, do you believe that your insurance premium covers all your costs, once you actually need more than run-of-the-mill doctor's visits? Let me assure you that it doesn't.

Greywolf - RTHR-2003; LTHR-2004

mdavison@...

From: Joint Replacement [mailto:Joint Replacement ] On Behalf Of S.A.M.Sent: 29 October, 2006 10:46 AMJoint Replacement Subject: Re: TKR

,

Where does the money come from to pay all the peoples

medical expense? You cannot possibly believe that

the portion people pay actually covers the cost.

Sherry

Re: TKRthe problem is our American system has become to socialized likeCanada and has gone down hill from there. Medicine was muchbetter when doctors made house calls and had PRIVATE PRACTICES.There were NO HMO's. Now doctors have a slew of people just todo paperwork and things in the medical profession have gone to hellin a handcart. When the #1 cause of death in the US are medicalmistakes you know there is a huge problem. It never used to bethis way. The US was #1 in health care. Pretty much like ourpublic school system.Sherry

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