Guest guest Posted November 24, 1999 Report Share Posted November 24, 1999 Heeeheeeheeee!! I like the word too... I also like the term " bodice-ripper " , in re to trashy romance novels! W. " joe b. " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9737 > I've always rather liked that word " defrocked " , but I think they should try > it on some of the good women in Al-Anon... Those floral dresses are a bit > much when you've seen eight or nine of them one after another. > > JB > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 1999 Report Share Posted November 24, 1999 I know my comments were innocuous. However, I do not believe the respondent was attacking based on the words, but of the inference, and took it personally. Perhaps this person has a deeper affiliation with the Catholic religion or a strong loyalty to AA, was abused by a priest or some other traumatic experience-negative OR positive. They obviously felt personally attacked in some way and felt they needed to defend a cause or belief. I have worked as a book editor and in the field of law for many years and I know how often the English language can be misinterpreted or otherwise skewed. E., you read my words accurately and they did not incite you, except to question another's interpretation. I just happened to push a button with a reader. W. eudaimon8413311-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9757 > In a message dated 11/23/99 7:46:53 PM Central Standard Time, > butterbeana@... writes: > > << Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!! > > > > > > > > > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming > > > involved > > > > > in a scandal involving young boys... > > > > > >> > > Why did this cause such a ruckus? " Seems " he dropped out of sight after > " becoming involved... " doesn't even make a definite statement, just implies > possibility; hardly lawsuit material. I've seen far pricklier, meatier > statements about public figures on cartoons on Fox network. This isn't > communist China, and Father thankfully is no emperor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 1999 Report Share Posted November 24, 1999 Does high stakes poker and stip clubs add to personal contentment or simply add to the emptiness? In my opinion, going to strip clubs and gambling are just one big downer after the temporary high. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: Tale of 12 step woe >Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:43:33 -0500 > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up >to > >$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless > >dollars on " lap dances. " > >Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs? > >--wally > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! >-- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 Well, Matt - You might find this a bit odd, being I am female, but I love to go to strip joints (if they aren't scuzzy). I think the human body is beautiful - male and female - so if I want to look at someone who I think is nice looking in the " buff " what is so wrong with that? I am a naturist/nudist. I have been to nudist resorts that are very classy and nice. I think people in the USA are too 'anal' about the human body and the acceptance of how a person looks without clothes. Trust me, I have a very EXTENSIVE wardrobe of clothing that I usually wear only to special events. I am a BIG TIME fan of the B-52's and I ALWAYS deck to the nines in B-52's fashion. I have a place that makes CUSTOM ORDERED clothing which I purchase to go to my B-52 events and also other places like a hi-energy dance club. But when push comes to shove, my AB FAB favorite way of living is sans clothing. I think the reason for the " we must wear clothes " deal can be tracked back to the European people that first settled in the USA. They were Puritans, and wanted to escape the (obvious) domination of their home countrie's rule. I believe this mode of thought still exists today. And, damnit, who ever made up this foolishness about men being OK without a shirt on but women can't???? I go out in the summer and " fry " because " society " regulates that women can't expose their breasts. EXCUSE ME and HELLO...???? That sounds SOOO damn much like the stupidity of x-tian groups and 12 step groups. Damn, it's 90 degrees and I'm hot. Why in the hell should I remain horribly uncomfortable when men can whip off their shirts and that isn't a concern??? I am NOT male bashing - I am mearly stating my thoughts about this. Because I am a naturist/nudist, I have to pay alot of money to be this way if I want to participate in nudity with other people. I only wear clothing because a) it's cold b)I do it when I go to a concert or nightclub and c) because if I walked down the street where I live naked, I would end up in jail. What a crock of b.s. *sigh* ~Trixxi Re: Tale of 12 step woe > >Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:43:33 -0500 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up > >to > > >$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless > > >dollars on " lap dances. " > > > >Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs? > > > >--wally > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! > >-- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on > more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news, > reviews and prices! http://clickhere./click/1611 > > > > > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 : Thanks for being honest. I wasted a lot of $ at those clubs. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 : Thanks for being honest. I wasted a lot of $ at those clubs. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 : Thanks for being honest. I wasted a lot of $ at those clubs. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 wgt@... writes: > Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my > recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- more > orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your religion > or something. Having moonlighted as a dancer in one to pay the bills when I was young and stupid, I'd have to agree that going to them is fine, so long as you realise that the *only* thing any woman in those places cares about is getting as much of your money as she possibly can (in spite of anything she says to the contrary). Backstage, most of the conversations revolved around how stupid and gullible the customers are, to keep throwing away so much of their money for so little. I was appalled by the degree of cynicism and cruelty I heard. But if your idea of a good time is being ripped off and ridiculed behind your back, it's a free country. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 wgt@... writes: > Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my > recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- more > orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your religion > or something. Having moonlighted as a dancer in one to pay the bills when I was young and stupid, I'd have to agree that going to them is fine, so long as you realise that the *only* thing any woman in those places cares about is getting as much of your money as she possibly can (in spite of anything she says to the contrary). Backstage, most of the conversations revolved around how stupid and gullible the customers are, to keep throwing away so much of their money for so little. I was appalled by the degree of cynicism and cruelty I heard. But if your idea of a good time is being ripped off and ridiculed behind your back, it's a free country. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 wgt@... writes: > Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my > recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- more > orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your religion > or something. Having moonlighted as a dancer in one to pay the bills when I was young and stupid, I'd have to agree that going to them is fine, so long as you realise that the *only* thing any woman in those places cares about is getting as much of your money as she possibly can (in spite of anything she says to the contrary). Backstage, most of the conversations revolved around how stupid and gullible the customers are, to keep throwing away so much of their money for so little. I was appalled by the degree of cynicism and cruelty I heard. But if your idea of a good time is being ripped off and ridiculed behind your back, it's a free country. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 I have found that fun and sociability add quite a bit to personal contentment :-) Unless there's more going on than you describe (like is it every night?) ... The poker game where you can lose no more than $50 is a social game. $50 is the cost of a cheap date (dinner or concert tickets, but not both) and when you play poker you could even come out ahead. The average cost is zero. Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- more orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your religion or something. And at least it keeps them away from an AA meeting, which can't be bad :-) --wally Re: Tale of 12 step woe >>Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:43:33 -0500 >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >> >> >> > And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up >>to >> >$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless >> >dollars on " lap dances. " >> >>Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs? >> >>--wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 1999 Report Share Posted November 25, 1999 I have found that fun and sociability add quite a bit to personal contentment :-) Unless there's more going on than you describe (like is it every night?) ... The poker game where you can lose no more than $50 is a social game. $50 is the cost of a cheap date (dinner or concert tickets, but not both) and when you play poker you could even come out ahead. The average cost is zero. Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- more orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your religion or something. And at least it keeps them away from an AA meeting, which can't be bad :-) --wally Re: Tale of 12 step woe >>Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:43:33 -0500 >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >> >> >> > And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up >>to >> >$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless >> >dollars on " lap dances. " >> >>Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs? >> >>--wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 1999 Report Share Posted November 26, 1999 Hi , You make an excellent point. For many years I was connected with the management of several strip joints. In those days they weren't called " gentlemans clubs " . I would hang out in them, drinking for free of course and watch the customers get taken off. I have to admit that I got a kick out of seeing how gullible these guys were. In a message dated 11/25/99 10:35:27 PM Central Standard Time, saes@... writes: > Having moonlighted as a dancer in one to pay the bills when I was young and > stupid, I'd have to agree that going to them is fine, so long as you realise > > that the *only* thing any woman in those places cares about is getting as > much of your money as she possibly can (in spite of anything she says to the > > contrary). Backstage, most of the conversations revolved around how stupid > and gullible the customers are, to keep throwing away so much of their money > > for so little. I was appalled by the degree of cynicism and cruelty I heard. > > But if your idea of a good time is being ripped off and ridiculed behind > your back, it's a free country. > > Regards, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 1999 Report Share Posted November 26, 1999 Imagine my relief -- I more than half expected to get a defensive reaction when I decided to break down and vent on this issue. Thanks, guys. Regards, mrreindeer@... writes: > : Thanks for being honest. I wasted a lot of $ at those clubs. UncArtie@... writes: > Hi , You make an excellent point. For many years I was connected with > the management of several strip joints. In those days they weren't called > " gentlemans clubs " . I would hang out in them, drinking for free of course > and watch the customers get taken off. > I have to admit that I got a kick out of seeing how gullible these guys > were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 1999 Report Share Posted November 27, 1999 Getting back to my original point, I do believe that going to strip clubs and playing poker makes you feel empty at the end of the night. Not fulfilled. Strip clubs are an exercise in frustration. You get to stare at a bunch of beautiful, naked women you can't take home. And poker is usually a dead end experience too. Most the time you go home broke or in debt. Even if you win odds are you lost some too. There's nothing wrong with either thing. But I just don't think they are healthy uses of a person's time. Matt >From: saes@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Tale of 12 step woe >Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:15:37 EST > >wgt@... writes: > > > Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my > > recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- >more > > orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your >religion > > or something. > >Having moonlighted as a dancer in one to pay the bills when I was young and >stupid, I'd have to agree that going to them is fine, so long as you >realise >that the *only* thing any woman in those places cares about is getting as >much of your money as she possibly can (in spite of anything she says to >the >contrary). Backstage, most of the conversations revolved around how stupid >and gullible the customers are, to keep throwing away so much of their >money >for so little. I was appalled by the degree of cynicism and cruelty I >heard. > But if your idea of a good time is being ripped off and ridiculed behind >your back, it's a free country. > >Regards, > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >et the most popular downloads on the Web. They¹re new! >They¹re hot! They’re FREE! Utilities, drivers, games. >It’s all here. http://clickhere./click/1610 > > > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 1999 Report Share Posted November 27, 1999 Getting back to my original point, I do believe that going to strip clubs and playing poker makes you feel empty at the end of the night. Not fulfilled. Strip clubs are an exercise in frustration. You get to stare at a bunch of beautiful, naked women you can't take home. And poker is usually a dead end experience too. Most the time you go home broke or in debt. Even if you win odds are you lost some too. There's nothing wrong with either thing. But I just don't think they are healthy uses of a person's time. Matt >From: saes@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Tale of 12 step woe >Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:15:37 EST > >wgt@... writes: > > > Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my > > recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- >more > > orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your >religion > > or something. > >Having moonlighted as a dancer in one to pay the bills when I was young and >stupid, I'd have to agree that going to them is fine, so long as you >realise >that the *only* thing any woman in those places cares about is getting as >much of your money as she possibly can (in spite of anything she says to >the >contrary). Backstage, most of the conversations revolved around how stupid >and gullible the customers are, to keep throwing away so much of their >money >for so little. I was appalled by the degree of cynicism and cruelty I >heard. > But if your idea of a good time is being ripped off and ridiculed behind >your back, it's a free country. > >Regards, > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >et the most popular downloads on the Web. They¹re new! >They¹re hot! They’re FREE! Utilities, drivers, games. >It’s all here. http://clickhere./click/1610 > > > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 1999 Report Share Posted November 27, 1999 Getting back to my original point, I do believe that going to strip clubs and playing poker makes you feel empty at the end of the night. Not fulfilled. Strip clubs are an exercise in frustration. You get to stare at a bunch of beautiful, naked women you can't take home. And poker is usually a dead end experience too. Most the time you go home broke or in debt. Even if you win odds are you lost some too. There's nothing wrong with either thing. But I just don't think they are healthy uses of a person's time. Matt >From: saes@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Tale of 12 step woe >Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:15:37 EST > >wgt@... writes: > > > Have never been to a strip club sober, so the memories are hazy, but my > > recollection is that they are pretty " well-regulated " in most cases -- >more > > orderly than many barrooms. Innocent fun, unless it's against your >religion > > or something. > >Having moonlighted as a dancer in one to pay the bills when I was young and >stupid, I'd have to agree that going to them is fine, so long as you >realise >that the *only* thing any woman in those places cares about is getting as >much of your money as she possibly can (in spite of anything she says to >the >contrary). Backstage, most of the conversations revolved around how stupid >and gullible the customers are, to keep throwing away so much of their >money >for so little. I was appalled by the degree of cynicism and cruelty I >heard. > But if your idea of a good time is being ripped off and ridiculed behind >your back, it's a free country. > >Regards, > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >et the most popular downloads on the Web. They¹re new! >They¹re hot! They’re FREE! Utilities, drivers, games. >It’s all here. http://clickhere./click/1610 > > > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 1999 Report Share Posted November 28, 1999 Hi Matt, Let's consider poker specifically. You've made some amazingly general negative statements about a game that millions of people have been playing for 150 years ago. For instance, if " most of the time you go home broke or in debt, " as you say, poker would be bankrupting at least a billion Americans every year. You'd think I would have read about this somewhere Just to take one particular poker player: the mathematician von Neumann. Von Neumann made a lot of significant contributions to science and mathematics. He invented the basic architecture of the digital computer: the machine I am using to write this message, and probably the one you are using to read it, still adheres to the von Neumann paradigm. Another little invention of his (among many) was mathematical game theory, which is the foundation for a great deal (maybe most?) of modern economics, and has also found innumerable applications in psychology and other sciences. One of his main inspirations for game theory was poker, which he played quite frequently. In fact, one of his mathematical papers deals specifically with poker. Are you seriously suggesting that an evening of poker always left von Neumann with a feeling of emptiness, and that he should have found a " healthier " way to spend his time? --wally -----Original Message----- >Getting back to my original point, I do believe that going to strip clubs >and playing poker makes you feel empty at the end of the night. Not >fulfilled. Strip clubs are an exercise in frustration. You get to stare at >a bunch of beautiful, naked women you can't take home. And poker is usually >a dead end experience too. Most the time you go home broke or in debt. Even >if you win odds are you lost some too. >There's nothing wrong with either thing. But I just don't think they are >healthy uses of a person's time. >Matt > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 1999 Report Share Posted November 29, 1999 I didn't say poker was bad. I liked that movie " Rounders. " But I do think playing poker like any thing " risky " involves a rush, a high. The thrill of betting on the game. The unpredictability. All I'm saying is the letdown can be a bummer. Even if you win money the letdown can be brutal. Gambling of any kind involves a temporary high. That's why people do it. I mean even old ladies in nursing homes. And sure, I indulge in poker occasionally. But I don't obsess about it nor plan my nights around it. And that's what a lot of AA people I met do. They look forward to high stakes poker. And they play with such an intensity you'd think their life was hanging on the outcome. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: Tale of 12 step woe >Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:26:21 -0500 > >Hi Matt, > >Let's consider poker specifically. You've made some amazingly general >negative statements about a game that millions of people have been playing >for 150 years ago. For instance, if " most of the time you go home broke or >in debt, " as you say, poker would be bankrupting at least a billion >Americans every year. You'd think I would have read about this somewhere > >Just to take one particular poker player: the mathematician von >Neumann. Von Neumann made a lot of significant contributions to science and >mathematics. He invented the basic architecture of the digital computer: >the >machine I am using to write this message, and probably the one you are >using >to read it, still adheres to the von Neumann paradigm. Another little >invention of his (among many) was mathematical game theory, which is the >foundation for a great deal (maybe most?) of modern economics, and has also >found innumerable applications in psychology and other sciences. One of his >main inspirations for game theory was poker, which he played quite >frequently. In fact, one of his mathematical papers deals specifically with >poker. > >Are you seriously suggesting that an evening of poker always left von >Neumann with a feeling of emptiness, and that he should have found a > " healthier " way to spend his time? > >--wally > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >Getting back to my original point, I do believe that going to strip clubs > >and playing poker makes you feel empty at the end of the night. Not > >fulfilled. Strip clubs are an exercise in frustration. You get to stare >at > >a bunch of beautiful, naked women you can't take home. And poker is >usually > >a dead end experience too. Most the time you go home broke or in debt. >Even > >if you win odds are you lost some too. > >There's nothing wrong with either thing. But I just don't think they are > >healthy uses of a person's time. > >Matt > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Easy as one, two, FREE! FREE shipping, Gift Wrap and >ShimmerRing with any prurchase at iBeauty.com We have >over 500 brands of frangrances, treatment, cosmetics. >http://clickhere./click/1790 > >-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! >-- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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