Re: Tale of 12 step woe

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I beleive Father is being confused with Father Ritter of Covenent

House, a Roman Catholic run system of homeless shelters based in NYC. The

last I heard, they were thring to send him to India to work with children.

Fortunately, India declined.

[Guest guest]

I remember one vid we had that started with several dervishes rotating

slowly while murmuring something to themselves. After abt 3 mins

someone called out:

" What the fuck has this got to do with heroin? "

Pete

butterbean-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9703

> OH GAWD! Those " Father " videos are the MOST boring of ALL TIME!

> Second place winner of 12-step-boredom videos are with some dude

affiliated

> with Hazelton....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Re: Tale of 12 step woe

>

>

> > The trouble with doing all that stuff (movies, lectures, etc.) on an

> outpatient basis is that people realize very quickly that they are

paying

> $95-$150 an hour for something they could rent (if they wanted) for

$5.

> Also they get very bored. I think that kind of treatment has people

begging

> to be allowed to go to AA meetings instead.

> > ---

> > Kayleigh

> >

> > Zz

> > zZ

> > |\ z _,,,---,,_

> > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> > '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > >-----Original Message-----

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>Thanks Apple. I've become more and more convinced that repeat

trips to

> > >>rehab are counterproductive. Everyday I go to work I walk by a

Alcohol

> &

> > >>Drug treatment center. I'll see a group of patients outside

smoking

> while

> > >>laughing nervously and avoiding eye contact. Occasionally I've

had the

> > >>desire to walk up and ask them, " is this working? Or is it a

complete

> > >waste

> > >>of time? " I wonder what they'd say.

> > >

> > >Heck, even I can answer that one for you. They'd say something

like:

> > > Thanks to this Wonderful Program, my Counselor Joe H., the

Steps, and

> my

> > >Higher Power (who I discovered last week), I have a real sense of

hope

> for

> > >the first time. I don't know if it's 'working', but I do know that

I am

> > >being given all the tools I need to make it work when I leave

here. The

> rest

> > >is up to me, and if it doesn't work that only means that I didn't

Truly

> > >Surrender and Work the Program.

> > >

> > >And why would any adult with an IQ over 63 babble such mush in

public?

> Well,

> > >the reason is that when he went in the front door, probably under

duress

> or

> > >drunk or both, the Staff did their best to get him to sign a form

> permitting

> > >them to freely contact as many outside parties (family, employer,

> > >professional association, union, parole officer, lawyer...) as

possible,

> and

> > >then when he came out of the haze he quickly learned that if he

didn't

> spout

> > >the obeisances, his Compliance Failure would be reflected in

Progress

> > >Reports to all and sundry, and furthermore he would surely Drink

and Die

> in

> > >complete disgrace and hideous physical agony.

> > >

> > >And after 30 days of saying things like this in sessions, formal

and

> > >informal, with your Peers (all of which, should it not toe the

line,

> comes

> > >up in Group the next day) you go out almost believing it for a

couple of

> > >days.

> > >

> > >Ah, the memories... I will never forget sitting in a circle with

my Peers

> > >one sunny Saturday morning in Spofford Hall when, after the usual

moment

> of

> > >profoundly silent meditation, the StepGoblin, in his sepulchral

voice,

> > >chanted the words that opened the Group: " Who Isn't Changing? " Fear

> clutched

> > >every heart, as each of us scrambled to figure out exactly who it

was

> that

> > >Wasn't Changing, and why it Wasn't Me, before it became our turn to

> Share.

> > >Many Changes were Shared, and they were all profound, especially

> considering

> > >that they had happened within the past month. Turned out it was

X.

> who

> > >Wasn't Changing. His sin was basic: he wouldn't emote properly

when he

> > >admitted that he had the Disease of Alcoholism. He had even said

once, in

> a

> > >careless moment, that he thought he just drank too much because of

some

> > >problems he had. The consequence? " is a Dead Man. " We gulped.

Some

> of

> > >us tried to help out , pointing to instances in which he had

made

> some

> > >effort to work the First Step. Each potential ally was skillfully

shot

> down

> > >by the StepGoblin, until the entire circle was in agreement that

> Wasn't

> > >Changing and hence was a Dead Man. Including .

> > >

> > >Questions for meditation:

> > > (1) Who, at least before the Dead Man Group, had been the

sanest

> person

> > >in the circle?

> > > (2) What coping skills were we learning here, to help us get

on with

> our

> > >lives after Treatment?

> > > (3) Does this sound like good therapy for depression?

> > >

> > >>In my opinion rehab is an exercise in

> > >>helplessness.

> > >

> > >Bingo. Also an exercise in charging hospital rates for presenting

movies,

> > >lectures, and rap sessions to a bunch of unfortunates who are in

various

> > >kinds of deep doo-doo, and who will probably not succeed in

exposing the

> > >scam before the next quarterly earnings report comes out.

> > >

> > >> For 30 days you have others telling you how to live your

life. You

> > >>aren't allowed to think for yourself. Then you are released to

the

> outside

> > >>world. Has anything changed? Have you learned any new coping

skills.

> I

> > >>doubt it seriously.

> > >

> > >Me too ;-) I went through a couple of Grade A 30-day StepPrograms

way

> back

> > >when. I can remember times when people graduated with All the

(Simple

> > >Spiritual) Tools to Stay Sober One-day-at-a-time-forever, and

phoned

> their

> > >friends back in Treatment the very same day, drunk and in tearful

> anguish,

> > >explaining that not only did they forget to Work the Program, but

It's

> > >Different Out There! And it was a tradition that on the way out,

> everybody

> > >put their names and phone numbers ( " Get Phone Numbers! " ) in each

other's

> Big

> > >Books, which meant that on top of all the other benefits of your

$x000

> > >learning experience, you were entitled to a series of phone calls

from

> drunk

> > >people over a period of 3 months. Then there's always Aftercare,

where

> you

> > >go for 2 hours a week for a while to find out who, if anybody,

hasn't

> > >Slipped yet.

> > >

> > >You're right, it's 30 days in Fairyland. Would it not make sense,

if you

> are

> > >going to cure people by providing them with movies, lectures, and

rap

> > >sessions, to at least do it on an outpatient basis for 1/20 of the

cost,

> and

> > >let them go about their lives in their own communities so they try

out

> their

> > >new coping skills as they learn them? Yes it would. It's even been

done.

> One

> > >drawback is that it's harder to brainwash people if you don't

isolate

> them.

> > >

> > >> I strongly believe that medication can really help an

addict. As

> > >long

> > >>as the addict abstains. At least in the short term, psychiatric

drugs

> can

> > >>help a person recognize patterns and see the big picture. I

think a lot

> of

> > >>addicts have such a hard time stopping because they have " trained

there

> > >>brains " to use alcohol and drugs. Their brain chemistry has

changed.

> And

> > >>the 12 steps cannot change a person's brain chemistry.

> > >

> > >Could be. And if you try to just deal with the " addiction " and

ignore

> real

> > >problems (some of which can be helped by psychiatric drugs), then

the

> > >addictive drug, and perhaps the addict life-style, may seem more

like a

> > >solution than a problem.

> > >

> > >> Medication can help break through all that. Very quickly.

I think

> > >>most addicts should go on it, at least for a while, until they

can get a

> > >>hold of themselves.

> > >

> > >Don't know about " most " , but certainly some. I did for a year, and

I

> believe

> > >it helped.

> > >

> > >-- wally

> > >

> > >> I know for me, my life has never been the same since I

started to

> > >>taking antidepressants. I have a lot more self control now. And

I

> don't

> > >>deliberately try to defeat myself like I did before. I don't

have this

> > >dark

> > >>desire to derail myself as much as before. And my life isn't

constant

> > >>chaos.

> > >> The good thing is, even when I stop taking the meds I am

still

> > >>different than before. It does become harder to control my self

> > >destructive

> > >>impulses. But I still can do it.

> > >>Matt

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> > >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.

> > >http://clickhere./click/1702

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> > >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

> >

[Guest guest]

Really !

The poor man was just powerless over his genetic disease of sex

addiction!

Surely you must have known that!

" wendy rose " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9706

> Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and got

> *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

>

> If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was defrocked.

>

> I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with this

> story.

>

>

>

> " apple " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9705

> > Is this for real?

> > apple

> >

> > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9

704

> > > Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > >

> > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> involved

> > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Really !

The poor man was just powerless over his genetic disease of sex

addiction!

Surely you must have known that!

" wendy rose " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9706

> Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and got

> *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

>

> If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was defrocked.

>

> I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with this

> story.

>

>

>

> " apple " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9705

> > Is this for real?

> > apple

> >

> > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9

704

> > > Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > >

> > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> involved

> > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just looked at that " Father " website and all of the 'God talk' sure

sounds religious and x-tian to me. These people don't make a 'tree' or a

'stone' their higher power. They are just another damn x-tian 12-steps to

damnation deal, I think.

~Trixxi

Re: Tale of 12 step woe

>

> Really !

>

> The poor man was just powerless over his genetic disease of sex

> addiction!

>

> Surely you must have known that!

>

>

> " wendy rose " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9706

> > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and got

> > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

> >

> > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was defrocked.

> >

> > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with this

> > story.

> >

> >

> >

> > " apple " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9705

> > > Is this for real?

> > > apple

> > >

> > > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9

> 704

> > > > Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > > >

> > > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> > involved

> > > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> your own personal message and graphics) FREE at

> iPrint.com. Pay just $3.20 for shipping to U.S. addresses.

> http://clickhere./click/1801

>

>

> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

> -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just looked at that " Father " website and all of the 'God talk' sure

sounds religious and x-tian to me. These people don't make a 'tree' or a

'stone' their higher power. They are just another damn x-tian 12-steps to

damnation deal, I think.

~Trixxi

Re: Tale of 12 step woe

>

> Really !

>

> The poor man was just powerless over his genetic disease of sex

> addiction!

>

> Surely you must have known that!

>

>

> " wendy rose " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9706

> > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and got

> > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

> >

> > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was defrocked.

> >

> > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with this

> > story.

> >

> >

> >

> > " apple " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9705

> > > Is this for real?

> > > apple

> > >

> > > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9

> 704

> > > > Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > > >

> > > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> > involved

> > > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> FREE Post-it® Notes! Get 10 4 " x3 " note pads (with

> your own personal message and graphics) FREE at

> iPrint.com. Pay just $3.20 for shipping to U.S. addresses.

> http://clickhere./click/1801

>

>

> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

> -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it's a safe place.

" Everybody, back to your corners. DOWN. "

Apple

" suzy " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9716

> I am kind of new here and am a little taken back by this exchange. If

> I ask if a rumour is true about some 12 step wonder am I going to get

> blasted? I thought this was a safe place for those of us who feel

> betrayed and hurt by AA. This exchange makes me feel uncomfortable,

> just like all of us I have had enough abuse, I don't need to go

looking

> for more. So is this a safe friendly place or what?

[Guest guest]

Yes, it's a safe place.

" Everybody, back to your corners. DOWN. "

Apple

" suzy " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9716

> I am kind of new here and am a little taken back by this exchange. If

> I ask if a rumour is true about some 12 step wonder am I going to get

> blasted? I thought this was a safe place for those of us who feel

> betrayed and hurt by AA. This exchange makes me feel uncomfortable,

> just like all of us I have had enough abuse, I don't need to go

looking

> for more. So is this a safe friendly place or what?

[Guest guest]

I've always rather liked that word " defrocked " , but I think they should try

it on some of the good women in Al-Anon... Those floral dresses are a bit

much when you've seen eight or nine of them one after another.

JB

[Guest guest]

I've always rather liked that word " defrocked " , but I think they should try

it on some of the good women in Al-Anon... Those floral dresses are a bit

much when you've seen eight or nine of them one after another.

JB

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

> And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up to

>$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless

>dollars on " lap dances. "

Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs?

--wally

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

> And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up to

>$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless

>dollars on " lap dances. "

Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs?

--wally

[Guest guest]

I doubt that Father has suffered any harm as a result of these posts,

hence they are unlikely to be actionable. You've made your point -- and now

please cool it.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

> Your posts speak for themselves. You made totally

>unsubstantiated,unproven,allegations and innuendos. Your posts are reckless

>and quite possibly actionable for defamation and slander.

> Artie

>

>In a message dated 11/23/99 6:59:47 AM Central Standard Time,

>wrose2@... writes:

>

>>

>> And why don't you read my posts more carefully before YOU make

>> accusations?

>>

>> uncarti-@... wrote:

>> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9708

>> > In a message dated 11/23/99 6:28:56 AM Central Standard Time,

>> > wrose2@... writes:

>> >

>> > >

>> > > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and got

>> > > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

>> > >

>> > > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was defrocked.

>> > >

>> > > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with this

>> > > story.

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > You have this all wrong. See http://fathermartinsashley

>> .com/

>> >

>> > You really need to check your facts before villifying someone!

>> > Artie

>>

>>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer

>equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer

>games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay!

>http://clickhere./click/1142

>

>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!

>-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[Guest guest]

I doubt that Father has suffered any harm as a result of these posts,

hence they are unlikely to be actionable. You've made your point -- and now

please cool it.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

> Your posts speak for themselves. You made totally

>unsubstantiated,unproven,allegations and innuendos. Your posts are reckless

>and quite possibly actionable for defamation and slander.

> Artie

>

>In a message dated 11/23/99 6:59:47 AM Central Standard Time,

>wrose2@... writes:

>

>>

>> And why don't you read my posts more carefully before YOU make

>> accusations?

>>

>> uncarti-@... wrote:

>> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9708

>> > In a message dated 11/23/99 6:28:56 AM Central Standard Time,

>> > wrose2@... writes:

>> >

>> > >

>> > > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and got

>> > > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

>> > >

>> > > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was defrocked.

>> > >

>> > > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with this

>> > > story.

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > You have this all wrong. See http://fathermartinsashley

>> .com/

>> >

>> > You really need to check your facts before villifying someone!

>> > Artie

>>

>>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer

>equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer

>games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay!

>http://clickhere./click/1142

>

>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!

>-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[Guest guest]

I guess that all depends (on the poker part). A few years ago I went casino

crazy and lost at least $10,000 in one year playing blackjack.

As far as " lapdances " , I don't see anything wrong with that.

~Trixxi

Re: Tale of 12 step woe

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

>

> > And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up

to

> >$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless

> >dollars on " lap dances. "

>

> Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs?

>

> --wally

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

> -- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess that all depends (on the poker part). A few years ago I went casino

crazy and lost at least $10,000 in one year playing blackjack.

As far as " lapdances " , I don't see anything wrong with that.

~Trixxi

Re: Tale of 12 step woe

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

>

> > And many AA members have sober poker parties where they can lose up

to

> >$50 a night. And lots of AA men go to strip clubs and blow countless

> >dollars on " lap dances. "

>

> Is there something wrong with poker or strip clubs?

>

> --wally

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

> -- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, he's got his own web page and a certified 12-step preachy " God " based

treatment center, so it looks like he's doing pretty good. Oh yeah-he writes

books now too.

~Trixxi

Re: Tale of 12 step woe

> I doubt that Father has suffered any harm as a result of these

posts, hence they are unlikely to be actionable. You've made your point --

and now please cool it.

> ---

> Kayleigh

>

> Zz

> zZ

> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>

>

>

>

> > Your posts speak for themselves. You made totally

> >unsubstantiated,unproven,allegations and innuendos. Your posts are

reckless

> >and quite possibly actionable for defamation and slander.

> > Artie

> >

> >In a message dated 11/23/99 6:59:47 AM Central Standard Time,

> >wrose2@... writes:

> >

> >>

> >> And why don't you read my posts more carefully before YOU make

> >> accusations?

> >>

> >> uncarti-@... wrote:

> >> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9708

> >> > In a message dated 11/23/99 6:28:56 AM Central Standard Time,

> >> > wrose2@... writes:

> >> >

> >> > >

> >> > > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and

got

> >> > > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

> >> > >

> >> > > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was

defrocked.

> >> > >

> >> > > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with

this

> >> > > story.

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > You have this all wrong. See

http://fathermartinsashley

> >> .com/

> >> >

> >> > You really need to check your facts before villifying someone!

> >> > Artie

> >>

> >>

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer

> >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer

> >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay!

> >http://clickhere./click/1142

> >

> >-- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

> -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, he's got his own web page and a certified 12-step preachy " God " based

treatment center, so it looks like he's doing pretty good. Oh yeah-he writes

books now too.

~Trixxi

Re: Tale of 12 step woe

> I doubt that Father has suffered any harm as a result of these

posts, hence they are unlikely to be actionable. You've made your point --

and now please cool it.

> ---

> Kayleigh

>

> Zz

> zZ

> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>

>

>

>

> > Your posts speak for themselves. You made totally

> >unsubstantiated,unproven,allegations and innuendos. Your posts are

reckless

> >and quite possibly actionable for defamation and slander.

> > Artie

> >

> >In a message dated 11/23/99 6:59:47 AM Central Standard Time,

> >wrose2@... writes:

> >

> >>

> >> And why don't you read my posts more carefully before YOU make

> >> accusations?

> >>

> >> uncarti-@... wrote:

> >> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9708

> >> > In a message dated 11/23/99 6:28:56 AM Central Standard Time,

> >> > wrose2@... writes:

> >> >

> >> > >

> >> > > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and

got

> >> > > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

> >> > >

> >> > > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was

defrocked.

> >> > >

> >> > > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with

this

> >> > > story.

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > You have this all wrong. See

http://fathermartinsashley

> >> .com/

> >> >

> >> > You really need to check your facts before villifying someone!

> >> > Artie

> >>

> >>

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer

> >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer

> >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay!

> >http://clickhere./click/1142

> >

> >-- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

> -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , Thanks for helping to point this out. While I may not agree

with Father 's 12-step philosophy, I have found him to be a very nice

man who has helped a lot of people. He doesn't deserve to be the target of

false accusations and rumors by folks that obviously don't have a clue.

In a message dated 11/23/99 11:20:53 PM Central Standard Time, UUSEAN@...

writes:

> Hi everyone,

> I beleive Father is being confused with Father Ritter of

Covenent

>

> House, a Roman Catholic run system of homeless shelters based in NYC.

The

> last I heard, they were thring to send him to India to work with children.

> Fortunately, India declined.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , Thanks for helping to point this out. While I may not agree

with Father 's 12-step philosophy, I have found him to be a very nice

man who has helped a lot of people. He doesn't deserve to be the target of

false accusations and rumors by folks that obviously don't have a clue.

In a message dated 11/23/99 11:20:53 PM Central Standard Time, UUSEAN@...

writes:

> Hi everyone,

> I beleive Father is being confused with Father Ritter of

Covenent

>

> House, a Roman Catholic run system of homeless shelters based in NYC.

The

> last I heard, they were thring to send him to India to work with children.

> Fortunately, India declined.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/23/99 7:37:08 PM Central Standard Time,

awatt04@... writes:

<< I remember one vid we had that started with several dervishes rotating

slowly while murmuring something to themselves. After abt 3 mins

someone called out:

" What the fuck has this got to do with heroin? " >>

ROFL!!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/23/99 7:46:53 PM Central Standard Time,

butterbeana@... writes:

<< Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > > >

> > > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> > involved

> > > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > > > >>

Why did this cause such a ruckus? " Seems " he dropped out of sight after

" becoming involved... " doesn't even make a definite statement, just implies

possibility; hardly lawsuit material. I've seen far pricklier, meatier

statements about public figures on cartoons on Fox network. This isn't

communist China, and Father thankfully is no emperor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/23/99 7:46:53 PM Central Standard Time,

butterbeana@... writes:

<< Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > > >

> > > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> > involved

> > > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > > > >>

Why did this cause such a ruckus? " Seems " he dropped out of sight after

" becoming involved... " doesn't even make a definite statement, just implies

possibility; hardly lawsuit material. I've seen far pricklier, meatier

statements about public figures on cartoons on Fox network. This isn't

communist China, and Father thankfully is no emperor.

[Guest guest]

Oh Pete, I'm sorry.

It slipped my mind temporarily!

....here...let me slip that old Al-Anon tape back in....

ahhhh.....okay....

Oh, the ignorance...aahhhh..the blisss.....the Opiate of the People...

" cool briton " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9733

>

> Really !

>

> The poor man was just powerless over his genetic disease of sex

> addiction!

>

> Surely you must have known that!

>

>

> " wendy rose " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9706

> > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and got

> > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

> >

> > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was defrocked.

> >

> > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with this

> > story.

> >

> >

> >

> > " apple " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9

705

> > > Is this for real?

> > > apple

> > >

> > > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start

=9

> 704

> > > > Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > > >

> > > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> > involved

> > > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The Catholic church is very powerful and takes care of its' own.

KnowhutImean?

butterbean-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9734

> I just looked at that " Father " website and all of the 'God

talk' sure

> sounds religious and x-tian to me. These people don't make a 'tree'

or a

> 'stone' their higher power. They are just another damn x-tian

12-steps to

> damnation deal, I think.

> ~Trixxi

> Re: Tale of 12 step woe

>

>

> >

> > Really !

> >

> > The poor man was just powerless over his genetic disease of sex

> > addiction!

> >

> > Surely you must have known that!

> >

> >

> > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9

706

> > > Apple, I am pretty sure he was coaching a boy's hockey team and

got

> > > *ahem* " involved " . I remember " murmurings " about it.

> > >

> > > If I have my facts straight, he is from Michigan and was

defrocked.

> > >

> > > I can't confirm this, but maybe someone else can help out with

this

> > > story.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " apple " wrote:

> > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start

=9705

> > > > Is this for real?

> > > > apple

> > > >

> > > > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?sta

rt=9

> > 704

> > > > > Father ? Oh Man, does that ring a bell!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Seems he dropped out of sight in the late 80s after becoming

> > > involved

> > > > > in a scandal involving young boys...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >