Re: It happened tonight! well errr Yesterday Night!

[Guest guest]

i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can

do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue,

i think military law may be less user friendly.

dave

babystrang-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8771

> > Dave;

> >

> > Thanks but it was really more a function of frustration than

> greatness.

> >

> > I'm being compelled to attend by the military. Since the military

> has

> > almost total control of my life it's extremely frustrating knowing

> that

> > complaining about it is more likely to get me into a whole hell of a

> lot of

> > trouble than out of the cuckoo's nest.

> >

> > So I'm forced to bide my time. Never knowing how long I'll have to

> attend.

> >

> Hi, --

>

> There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy

> Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in

> the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated

> by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he

> sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case--

> though someone is bound to win it sooner or later).

>

> He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back

> in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of

> December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his

> case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him?

>

> Yadda Yadda Yadda,

> .

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Re: It happened tonight! well errr

Yesterday

> > Night!

> >

> > hecotr,

> > that was jsut about the greatest thing i have ever heard of being

said

> > in a meeting! i aplaud you standing up for yourself and your

beliefs.

> > No one in any meeting can take your right to express yourself away

> from

> > you. Bravo! if the " only requirement of membership " was really a

> > desire to stop drinking, then nothing you said should be offensive,

or

> > so you would think. are you being compelled to ateend these meetings

> by

> > the courts? if not, why are you going?

> > dave

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's a riot Ben!

I remember one meeting, where I was supposed to qualify on Step 2. Turn

my will and life over to the care of God as I understood Him. Well,

I've always been pathologically honest. Honest to the point that it can

do harm (to those who can't handle it of course), and I opened the

meeting with a long monologue of how AA is trying to spoon feed us an

external male Christian God on the sly, and how I didn't appreciate it.

This wasn't what people were expecting, but a few of them said to me

after the meeting that they appreciated my honesty.

Apple

> Well, some people might pick a lightbulb, but then they'd have a

higher

> power who's involved in innumerable jokes.

>

> I may have mentioned this before, but...

> My last few years of going to meetings, my 'unofficial' higher

power

> was a doorknob, thought I didn't exactly spell it out (I actually had

> and have no 'higher power', but I played along in my own way). But

there

> were one or two people who knew exactly what I was saying when I said

> things such as " Well, yes, of course my Higher Power is vitally

important

> to me. I couldn't have got to this meeting, or even walked into this

> church building without the help of my Higher Power. " I managed to

mostly

> keep a straight face, but the one guy who knew my true beliefs and

what I

> was really saying (and who was a bit heretical himself) was laughing

so

> hard he was about to fall out of his chair!

>

> See, sometimes we DID have fun in AA meetings. :-)

> -----

> http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

That's a riot Ben!

I remember one meeting, where I was supposed to qualify on Step 2. Turn

my will and life over to the care of God as I understood Him. Well,

I've always been pathologically honest. Honest to the point that it can

do harm (to those who can't handle it of course), and I opened the

meeting with a long monologue of how AA is trying to spoon feed us an

external male Christian God on the sly, and how I didn't appreciate it.

This wasn't what people were expecting, but a few of them said to me

after the meeting that they appreciated my honesty.

Apple

> Well, some people might pick a lightbulb, but then they'd have a

higher

> power who's involved in innumerable jokes.

>

> I may have mentioned this before, but...

> My last few years of going to meetings, my 'unofficial' higher

power

> was a doorknob, thought I didn't exactly spell it out (I actually had

> and have no 'higher power', but I played along in my own way). But

there

> were one or two people who knew exactly what I was saying when I said

> things such as " Well, yes, of course my Higher Power is vitally

important

> to me. I couldn't have got to this meeting, or even walked into this

> church building without the help of my Higher Power. " I managed to

mostly

> keep a straight face, but the one guy who knew my true beliefs and

what I

> was really saying (and who was a bit heretical himself) was laughing

so

> hard he was about to fall out of his chair!

>

> See, sometimes we DID have fun in AA meetings. :-)

> -----

> http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

That's a riot Ben!

I remember one meeting, where I was supposed to qualify on Step 2. Turn

my will and life over to the care of God as I understood Him. Well,

I've always been pathologically honest. Honest to the point that it can

do harm (to those who can't handle it of course), and I opened the

meeting with a long monologue of how AA is trying to spoon feed us an

external male Christian God on the sly, and how I didn't appreciate it.

This wasn't what people were expecting, but a few of them said to me

after the meeting that they appreciated my honesty.

Apple

> Well, some people might pick a lightbulb, but then they'd have a

higher

> power who's involved in innumerable jokes.

>

> I may have mentioned this before, but...

> My last few years of going to meetings, my 'unofficial' higher

power

> was a doorknob, thought I didn't exactly spell it out (I actually had

> and have no 'higher power', but I played along in my own way). But

there

> were one or two people who knew exactly what I was saying when I said

> things such as " Well, yes, of course my Higher Power is vitally

important

> to me. I couldn't have got to this meeting, or even walked into this

> church building without the help of my Higher Power. " I managed to

mostly

> keep a straight face, but the one guy who knew my true beliefs and

what I

> was really saying (and who was a bit heretical himself) was laughing

so

> hard he was about to fall out of his chair!

>

> See, sometimes we DID have fun in AA meetings. :-)

> -----

> http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his

freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the

growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon

after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his

spirit!

Apple

> Hi, --

>

> There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy

> Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in

> the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated

> by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he

> sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case--

> though someone is bound to win it sooner or later).

>

> He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back

> in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of

> December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his

> case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him?

>

> Yadda Yadda Yadda,

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his

freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the

growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon

after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his

spirit!

Apple

> Hi, --

>

> There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy

> Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in

> the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated

> by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he

> sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case--

> though someone is bound to win it sooner or later).

>

> He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back

> in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of

> December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his

> case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him?

>

> Yadda Yadda Yadda,

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his

freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the

growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon

after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his

spirit!

Apple

> Hi, --

>

> There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy

> Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in

> the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated

> by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he

> sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case--

> though someone is bound to win it sooner or later).

>

> He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back

> in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of

> December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his

> case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him?

>

> Yadda Yadda Yadda,

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I got a mail a while ago from a fellow in the navy, who told me that

the navy planted guys in AA so they could listen to the men's fifth

steps! (and use it against them) Can you imagine.

Apple

dmarcoo-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8772

> i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can

> do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue,

> i think military law may be less user friendly.

> dave

>

[Guest guest]

I got a mail a while ago from a fellow in the navy, who told me that

the navy planted guys in AA so they could listen to the men's fifth

steps! (and use it against them) Can you imagine.

Apple

dmarcoo-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8772

> i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can

> do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue,

> i think military law may be less user friendly.

> dave

>

[Guest guest]

I got a mail a while ago from a fellow in the navy, who told me that

the navy planted guys in AA so they could listen to the men's fifth

steps! (and use it against them) Can you imagine.

Apple

dmarcoo-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8772

> i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can

> do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue,

> i think military law may be less user friendly.

> dave

>

[Guest guest]

---

>Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his

>freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the

>growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon

>after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his

>spirit!

>Apple

-----------------------

Haven't heard from him in quite some time. I was very sad to learn from

him that apparently the Constitution does not apply much to those in military

service.

As I recall, Tommy, who is a religious Christian (and found AA to be

offensive in its facile brand of religiosity) became put off by what he

perceived as insensitive and disrespectful remarks about Xtianity by some

listmembers, and exited.

~Rita

-----------------------

>> Hi, --

>>

>> There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy

>> Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in

>> the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated

>> by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he

>> sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case--

>> though someone is bound to win it sooner or later).

>>

>> He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back

>> in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of

>> December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his

>> case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him?

>>

>> Yadda Yadda Yadda,

>> .

>>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Tommy Perkins stuff was around February and is easily founf in the

12-steps-and-politics list, as he seem sto have z-posted it there too.

Timmy was a good guy but he was coming from a position of strong Xtian

beliefs which made him object to mostly saying the Lord's Prayer, which

wouldnt really make sense to many judges I guess. Also, he didn't have

legal representation and was, from the depositions which he posted to

the list, just a tad over-the-top in my view expressing his arguments.

Someone coming from an agnostic/atheist position, with legal

representation to present the argument in the best light, might well be

more succesful.

Pete

babystrang-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8771

> > Dave;

> >

> > Thanks but it was really more a function of frustration than

> greatness.

> >

> > I'm being compelled to attend by the military. Since the military

> has

> > almost total control of my life it's extremely frustrating knowing

> that

> > complaining about it is more likely to get me into a whole hell of a

> lot of

> > trouble than out of the cuckoo's nest.

> >

> > So I'm forced to bide my time. Never knowing how long I'll have to

> attend.

> >

> Hi, --

>

> There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy

> Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in

> the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated

> by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he

> sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case--

> though someone is bound to win it sooner or later).

>

> He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back

> in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of

> December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his

> case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him?

>

> Yadda Yadda Yadda,

> .

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Re: It happened tonight! well errr

Yesterday

> > Night!

> >

> > hecotr,

> > that was jsut about the greatest thing i have ever heard of being

said

> > in a meeting! i aplaud you standing up for yourself and your

beliefs.

> > No one in any meeting can take your right to express yourself away

> from

> > you. Bravo! if the " only requirement of membership " was really a

> > desire to stop drinking, then nothing you said should be offensive,

or

> > so you would think. are you being compelled to ateend these meetings

> by

> > the courts? if not, why are you going?

> > dave

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , Rita, Apple, Pete et. al.,

Hope you are all doing well. I have a long post in the making about

the Second Circuit's limited victory and the situation in the military.

Hope no one minds if I let off a little steam here. For now let me

just requote Justice Scalia:

" Needless to say, no one should be compelled to do that "

Congratulations to the newly freed souls of New York, Connecticut, and

Vermont- Jews, Atheists, Christians, et. al.

Thanks,

Tommy

" railroad rita " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8781

>

> ---

>

>

>

> >Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his

> >freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the

> >growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list

soon

> >after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his

> >spirit!

>

> >Apple

>

> -----------------------

>

> Haven't heard from him in quite some time. I was very sad to

learn from him that apparently the Constitution does not apply much to

those in military service.

>

> As I recall, Tommy, who is a religious Christian (and found AA

to be offensive in its facile brand of religiosity) became put off by

what he perceived as insensitive and disrespectful remarks about

Xtianity by some listmembers, and exited.

>

> ~Rita

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi , Rita, Apple, Pete et. al.,

>

> Hope you are all doing well. I have a long post in the making about

> the Second Circuit's limited victory and the situation in the

military.

> Hope no one minds if I let off a little steam here.

Hi, Tommy!

It's good to see you back! I've been wondering what

had happened to you. Let off all the steam you want--

I'd be interested in hearing anything you might have

to add to this.

I'm swamped with school and have a craft fair I'm getting

ready for, so I don't get around to posting much as of late.

What have you been up to all these months?

Take care,

.

For now let me

> just requote Justice Scalia:

>

> " Needless to say, no one should be compelled to do that "

>

> Congratulations to the newly freed souls of New York, Connecticut, and

> Vermont- Jews, Atheists, Christians, et. al.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Tommy

>

> " railroad rita " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8781

> >

> > ---

> >

> >

> >

> > >Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his

> > >freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the

> > >growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list

> soon

> > >after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring

his

> > >spirit!

> >

> > >Apple

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Mainly I've been busy busy busy. I live in a land of extremes. The tourist

season is hustle-bustle--make the money while you can. We are now tapering

off into ghost town mode.

Awhile back I had some interesting exchanges on an egroup made up of lawyers

and medical professionals from the state of Washington.

Glad to hear you are doing well.

Thanks,

Tommy

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: Re: It happened tonight! well errr Yesterday

>Night!

>Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 23:36:49 -0800

>

> > Hi , Rita, Apple, Pete et. al.,

> >

> > Hope you are all doing well. I have a long post in the making about

> > the Second Circuit's limited victory and the situation in the

>military.

> > Hope no one minds if I let off a little steam here.

>

>Hi, Tommy!

>It's good to see you back! I've been wondering what

>had happened to you. Let off all the steam you want--

>I'd be interested in hearing anything you might have

>to add to this.

>

>I'm swamped with school and have a craft fair I'm getting

>ready for, so I don't get around to posting much as of late.

>What have you been up to all these months?

>

>Take care,

>.

>

>

>

>For now let me

> > just requote Justice Scalia:

> >

> > " Needless to say, no one should be compelled to do that "

> >

> > Congratulations to the newly freed souls of New York, Connecticut, and

> > Vermont- Jews, Atheists, Christians, et. al.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Tommy

> >

> > " railroad rita " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8781

> > >

> > > ---

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his

> > > >freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the

> > > >growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list

> > soon

> > > >after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring

>his

> > > >spirit!

> > >

> > > >Apple

> > >

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

>

______________________________________________________