Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue, i think military law may be less user friendly. dave babystrang-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8771 > > Dave; > > > > Thanks but it was really more a function of frustration than > greatness. > > > > I'm being compelled to attend by the military. Since the military > has > > almost total control of my life it's extremely frustrating knowing > that > > complaining about it is more likely to get me into a whole hell of a > lot of > > trouble than out of the cuckoo's nest. > > > > So I'm forced to bide my time. Never knowing how long I'll have to > attend. > > > Hi, -- > > There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy > Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in > the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated > by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he > sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case-- > though someone is bound to win it sooner or later). > > He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back > in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of > December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his > case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him? > > Yadda Yadda Yadda, > . > > > > > > > > > > Re: It happened tonight! well errr Yesterday > > Night! > > > > hecotr, > > that was jsut about the greatest thing i have ever heard of being said > > in a meeting! i aplaud you standing up for yourself and your beliefs. > > No one in any meeting can take your right to express yourself away > from > > you. Bravo! if the " only requirement of membership " was really a > > desire to stop drinking, then nothing you said should be offensive, or > > so you would think. are you being compelled to ateend these meetings > by > > the courts? if not, why are you going? > > dave > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 That's a riot Ben! I remember one meeting, where I was supposed to qualify on Step 2. Turn my will and life over to the care of God as I understood Him. Well, I've always been pathologically honest. Honest to the point that it can do harm (to those who can't handle it of course), and I opened the meeting with a long monologue of how AA is trying to spoon feed us an external male Christian God on the sly, and how I didn't appreciate it. This wasn't what people were expecting, but a few of them said to me after the meeting that they appreciated my honesty. Apple > Well, some people might pick a lightbulb, but then they'd have a higher > power who's involved in innumerable jokes. > > I may have mentioned this before, but... > My last few years of going to meetings, my 'unofficial' higher power > was a doorknob, thought I didn't exactly spell it out (I actually had > and have no 'higher power', but I played along in my own way). But there > were one or two people who knew exactly what I was saying when I said > things such as " Well, yes, of course my Higher Power is vitally important > to me. I couldn't have got to this meeting, or even walked into this > church building without the help of my Higher Power. " I managed to mostly > keep a straight face, but the one guy who knew my true beliefs and what I > was really saying (and who was a bit heretical himself) was laughing so > hard he was about to fall out of his chair! > > See, sometimes we DID have fun in AA meetings. :-) > ----- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 That's a riot Ben! I remember one meeting, where I was supposed to qualify on Step 2. Turn my will and life over to the care of God as I understood Him. Well, I've always been pathologically honest. Honest to the point that it can do harm (to those who can't handle it of course), and I opened the meeting with a long monologue of how AA is trying to spoon feed us an external male Christian God on the sly, and how I didn't appreciate it. This wasn't what people were expecting, but a few of them said to me after the meeting that they appreciated my honesty. Apple > Well, some people might pick a lightbulb, but then they'd have a higher > power who's involved in innumerable jokes. > > I may have mentioned this before, but... > My last few years of going to meetings, my 'unofficial' higher power > was a doorknob, thought I didn't exactly spell it out (I actually had > and have no 'higher power', but I played along in my own way). But there > were one or two people who knew exactly what I was saying when I said > things such as " Well, yes, of course my Higher Power is vitally important > to me. I couldn't have got to this meeting, or even walked into this > church building without the help of my Higher Power. " I managed to mostly > keep a straight face, but the one guy who knew my true beliefs and what I > was really saying (and who was a bit heretical himself) was laughing so > hard he was about to fall out of his chair! > > See, sometimes we DID have fun in AA meetings. :-) > ----- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 That's a riot Ben! I remember one meeting, where I was supposed to qualify on Step 2. Turn my will and life over to the care of God as I understood Him. Well, I've always been pathologically honest. Honest to the point that it can do harm (to those who can't handle it of course), and I opened the meeting with a long monologue of how AA is trying to spoon feed us an external male Christian God on the sly, and how I didn't appreciate it. This wasn't what people were expecting, but a few of them said to me after the meeting that they appreciated my honesty. Apple > Well, some people might pick a lightbulb, but then they'd have a higher > power who's involved in innumerable jokes. > > I may have mentioned this before, but... > My last few years of going to meetings, my 'unofficial' higher power > was a doorknob, thought I didn't exactly spell it out (I actually had > and have no 'higher power', but I played along in my own way). But there > were one or two people who knew exactly what I was saying when I said > things such as " Well, yes, of course my Higher Power is vitally important > to me. I couldn't have got to this meeting, or even walked into this > church building without the help of my Higher Power. " I managed to mostly > keep a straight face, but the one guy who knew my true beliefs and what I > was really saying (and who was a bit heretical himself) was laughing so > hard he was about to fall out of his chair! > > See, sometimes we DID have fun in AA meetings. :-) > ----- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his spirit! Apple > Hi, -- > > There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy > Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in > the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated > by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he > sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case-- > though someone is bound to win it sooner or later). > > He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back > in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of > December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his > case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him? > > Yadda Yadda Yadda, > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his spirit! Apple > Hi, -- > > There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy > Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in > the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated > by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he > sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case-- > though someone is bound to win it sooner or later). > > He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back > in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of > December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his > case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him? > > Yadda Yadda Yadda, > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his spirit! Apple > Hi, -- > > There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy > Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in > the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated > by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he > sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case-- > though someone is bound to win it sooner or later). > > He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back > in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of > December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his > case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him? > > Yadda Yadda Yadda, > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 I got a mail a while ago from a fellow in the navy, who told me that the navy planted guys in AA so they could listen to the men's fifth steps! (and use it against them) Can you imagine. Apple dmarcoo-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8772 > i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can > do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue, > i think military law may be less user friendly. > dave > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 I got a mail a while ago from a fellow in the navy, who told me that the navy planted guys in AA so they could listen to the men's fifth steps! (and use it against them) Can you imagine. Apple dmarcoo-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8772 > i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can > do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue, > i think military law may be less user friendly. > dave > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 I got a mail a while ago from a fellow in the navy, who told me that the navy planted guys in AA so they could listen to the men's fifth steps! (and use it against them) Can you imagine. Apple dmarcoo-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8772 > i think he osted in march. if you go web site for this egroup you can > do a search of his postings by name. also this being a military issue, > i think military law may be less user friendly. > dave > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 --- >Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his >freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the >growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon >after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his >spirit! >Apple ----------------------- Haven't heard from him in quite some time. I was very sad to learn from him that apparently the Constitution does not apply much to those in military service. As I recall, Tommy, who is a religious Christian (and found AA to be offensive in its facile brand of religiosity) became put off by what he perceived as insensitive and disrespectful remarks about Xtianity by some listmembers, and exited. ~Rita ----------------------- >> Hi, -- >> >> There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy >> Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in >> the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated >> by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he >> sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case-- >> though someone is bound to win it sooner or later). >> >> He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back >> in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of >> December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his >> case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him? >> >> Yadda Yadda Yadda, >> . >> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Hi , Tommy Perkins stuff was around February and is easily founf in the 12-steps-and-politics list, as he seem sto have z-posted it there too. Timmy was a good guy but he was coming from a position of strong Xtian beliefs which made him object to mostly saying the Lord's Prayer, which wouldnt really make sense to many judges I guess. Also, he didn't have legal representation and was, from the depositions which he posted to the list, just a tad over-the-top in my view expressing his arguments. Someone coming from an agnostic/atheist position, with legal representation to present the argument in the best light, might well be more succesful. Pete babystrang-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8771 > > Dave; > > > > Thanks but it was really more a function of frustration than > greatness. > > > > I'm being compelled to attend by the military. Since the military > has > > almost total control of my life it's extremely frustrating knowing > that > > complaining about it is more likely to get me into a whole hell of a > lot of > > trouble than out of the cuckoo's nest. > > > > So I'm forced to bide my time. Never knowing how long I'll have to > attend. > > > Hi, -- > > There was a fellow posting here awhile back, named Tommy > Perkins. He was in the Coast Guard, as I recall, stationed in > the Carolinas, and was discharged for not attending AA, as mandated > by the Coast Guard. I may be a little off on the details, but he > sued on grounds of religious freedom (but, alas, lost his case-- > though someone is bound to win it sooner or later). > > He posted a number of documents regarding his case to this group back > in <furrows brow in thought> December? I think it was the middle of > December of last year. Dunno if you might be interested in his > case--BTW, has anyone else heard from him? > > Yadda Yadda Yadda, > . > > > > > > > > > > Re: It happened tonight! well errr Yesterday > > Night! > > > > hecotr, > > that was jsut about the greatest thing i have ever heard of being said > > in a meeting! i aplaud you standing up for yourself and your beliefs. > > No one in any meeting can take your right to express yourself away > from > > you. Bravo! if the " only requirement of membership " was really a > > desire to stop drinking, then nothing you said should be offensive, or > > so you would think. are you being compelled to ateend these meetings > by > > the courts? if not, why are you going? > > dave > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 1999 Report Share Posted November 20, 1999 Hi , Rita, Apple, Pete et. al., Hope you are all doing well. I have a long post in the making about the Second Circuit's limited victory and the situation in the military. Hope no one minds if I let off a little steam here. For now let me just requote Justice Scalia: " Needless to say, no one should be compelled to do that " Congratulations to the newly freed souls of New York, Connecticut, and Vermont- Jews, Atheists, Christians, et. al. Thanks, Tommy " railroad rita " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8781 > > --- > > > > >Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his > >freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the > >growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list soon > >after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his > >spirit! > > >Apple > > ----------------------- > > Haven't heard from him in quite some time. I was very sad to learn from him that apparently the Constitution does not apply much to those in military service. > > As I recall, Tommy, who is a religious Christian (and found AA to be offensive in its facile brand of religiosity) became put off by what he perceived as insensitive and disrespectful remarks about Xtianity by some listmembers, and exited. > > ~Rita > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 1999 Report Share Posted November 20, 1999 > Hi , Rita, Apple, Pete et. al., > > Hope you are all doing well. I have a long post in the making about > the Second Circuit's limited victory and the situation in the military. > Hope no one minds if I let off a little steam here. Hi, Tommy! It's good to see you back! I've been wondering what had happened to you. Let off all the steam you want-- I'd be interested in hearing anything you might have to add to this. I'm swamped with school and have a craft fair I'm getting ready for, so I don't get around to posting much as of late. What have you been up to all these months? Take care, . For now let me > just requote Justice Scalia: > > " Needless to say, no one should be compelled to do that " > > Congratulations to the newly freed souls of New York, Connecticut, and > Vermont- Jews, Atheists, Christians, et. al. > > Thanks, > > Tommy > > " railroad rita " wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8781 > > > > --- > > > > > > > > >Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his > > >freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the > > >growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list > soon > > >after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring his > > >spirit! > > > > >Apple > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 1999 Report Share Posted November 22, 1999 Hi , Mainly I've been busy busy busy. I live in a land of extremes. The tourist season is hustle-bustle--make the money while you can. We are now tapering off into ghost town mode. Awhile back I had some interesting exchanges on an egroup made up of lawyers and medical professionals from the state of Washington. Glad to hear you are doing well. Thanks, Tommy > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: It happened tonight! well errr Yesterday >Night! >Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 23:36:49 -0800 > > > Hi , Rita, Apple, Pete et. al., > > > > Hope you are all doing well. I have a long post in the making about > > the Second Circuit's limited victory and the situation in the >military. > > Hope no one minds if I let off a little steam here. > >Hi, Tommy! >It's good to see you back! I've been wondering what >had happened to you. Let off all the steam you want-- >I'd be interested in hearing anything you might have >to add to this. > >I'm swamped with school and have a craft fair I'm getting >ready for, so I don't get around to posting much as of late. >What have you been up to all these months? > >Take care, >. > > > >For now let me > > just requote Justice Scalia: > > > > " Needless to say, no one should be compelled to do that " > > > > Congratulations to the newly freed souls of New York, Connecticut, and > > Vermont- Jews, Atheists, Christians, et. al. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tommy > > > > " railroad rita " wrote: > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8781 > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rita might know. Tommy was a brave soul, and he fought hard for his > > > >freedom. I'm rather surprised that he didn't win, considering the > > > >growing number of cases where people HAVE won... He left the list > > soon > > > >after his case folded. But I remember him, and remember admiring >his > > > >spirit! > > > > > > >Apple > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! >http://clickhere./click/1142 > >-- Talk to your group with your own voice! >-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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