Guest guest Posted September 9, 1999 Report Share Posted September 9, 1999 In a message dated 9/9/99 12:54:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alandross@... writes: > t can, and it has been. There are many scientifically sound long-term > studies that prove that it is beneficial to a statistically significant > degree. Again, I'm not denying that there may be studies backing other > programs, but there's no way that they have the long-term studies which are > considered essential in psychology and the study of addiction. Hmm. Could the answer to that one then be that AA is beneficial to those newly sober, but somehow retards individual growth in those who have gotten past the initial cravings and are working to improve their lives, as seems to be the logical progression of the steps? How can the very program that claims to create change and progress in its members reject those who have found a way other than AA to achieve the same ends?? The big book doesn't say anywhere I've seen that seeking any outside assistance is prohibited, as long as nobody mentions it inside the hallowed halls of AA ( - : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 1999 Report Share Posted September 10, 1999 >Hi there... I've decided on decals that are hard to peel off. They can >be placed in Big Books, other recovery books and on phone booths >outside of meetings. >Apple " hard to peel off " - apple, you continue to kill me. Man, that's funny. Yes! That will be super cool. Please give us a preview as to the text that will be on them. Oooo. I just thought of some recovery clubs that could use a little late-night " decorating " MMMMMmmmmwahahahahahahah... Oh I feel alive. Laterz, Alan Ro...er... I mean... from Nebraska...yeah, that's the ticket... ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 1999 Report Share Posted September 10, 1999 -----Original Message----- To: 12-step-freeegroups <12-step-freeegroups> >>How can AA really be tested? > >It can, and it has been. There are many scientifically sound long-term >studies that prove that it is beneficial to a statistically significant >degree. Again, I'm not denying that there may be studies backing other >programs, but there's no way that they have the long-term studies which are >considered essential in psychology and the study of addiction. > That's an interesting claim. As I recall, Vaillant's conclusion about the numerous studies of AA effectiveness, in The Natural History of Alcoholism Revisited, was that they were all methodologically unsound, inconclusive, or negative. Vaillant is an AA booster, so when he fails to find any supportive evidence for AA's effectiveness, I tend to believe him. -wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 1999 Report Share Posted October 3, 1999 > > > What's your favorite disease?!!(Rhetorical question). > My so-called " disease " was a little less selective. I had " if it's a drug and it's not PCP I'll do it in a New York nanosecond " disease! > > >At GA, It was the sports betters, and table game losers at the top and > >the slot video poker losers at the bottom. I always wondered how anyone could trust those video poker machines and video slot machines! They are computer generated and thus it seems to me that they could be rigged all the more easily. They could be pre-programmed to follow a distinct pattern of winning a little at the beginning to get the suckers primed up, and then steadily cleaning out their wallets as they continue to be used. ps: Forgive me, please, if this mail is loaded with HTML tags or any other weird formatting; I'm using a new version of Netscape and also have been starting to use my new Windows computer instead of the Mac because it's faster and has a better CPU (though I still prefer the Mac operating system to Windows by a mile.) I STILL have a " disease " - INTERNET ADDICTION! I think I'm not gonna bother trying to cure myself of it, though. (Smile) -DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 This was a great post. Seemed completely neutral and without bias. Then again, there is the opinion that having no bias is like being biased... but that's a different story... Anyway, it was cool. Look forward to more. >http://www.eGroups.com/list/12-step-free/?start=8837 > >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >From: Psoftinfo@... >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:51:39 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Subject: An Introductory Message >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >(WARNING: Long message!) > >I'm new to this email group, so let me give you some idea who I >am ... > >- I am an atheist. > Apple, What was the Ragge book - " AA: Cult or cure " ...? Or a different one? >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:49:08 -0700 >From: appledtp@... >In-Reply-To: >Subject: Re: Great book >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Yes, I read it. I read it just before I read Ragge's book. I found >the Gilliam book excellent, albeit a smidge politically correct. (I >give my site the same criticism though) Ultimately it was Ragge's >relentless and heartless critique which got me out of the rooms. No one >had been so merciless before Ragge. I'll always hold that book in very >high regard. >Apple > Alan http://www.webroads.net/isser ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 This was a great post. Seemed completely neutral and without bias. Then again, there is the opinion that having no bias is like being biased... but that's a different story... Anyway, it was cool. Look forward to more. >http://www.eGroups.com/list/12-step-free/?start=8837 > >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >From: Psoftinfo@... >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:51:39 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Subject: An Introductory Message >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >(WARNING: Long message!) > >I'm new to this email group, so let me give you some idea who I >am ... > >- I am an atheist. > Apple, What was the Ragge book - " AA: Cult or cure " ...? Or a different one? >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:49:08 -0700 >From: appledtp@... >In-Reply-To: >Subject: Re: Great book >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Yes, I read it. I read it just before I read Ragge's book. I found >the Gilliam book excellent, albeit a smidge politically correct. (I >give my site the same criticism though) Ultimately it was Ragge's >relentless and heartless critique which got me out of the rooms. No one >had been so merciless before Ragge. I'll always hold that book in very >high regard. >Apple > Alan http://www.webroads.net/isser ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 This was a great post. Seemed completely neutral and without bias. Then again, there is the opinion that having no bias is like being biased... but that's a different story... Anyway, it was cool. Look forward to more. >http://www.eGroups.com/list/12-step-free/?start=8837 > >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >From: Psoftinfo@... >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:51:39 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Subject: An Introductory Message >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >(WARNING: Long message!) > >I'm new to this email group, so let me give you some idea who I >am ... > >- I am an atheist. > Apple, What was the Ragge book - " AA: Cult or cure " ...? Or a different one? >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:49:08 -0700 >From: appledtp@... >In-Reply-To: >Subject: Re: Great book >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Yes, I read it. I read it just before I read Ragge's book. I found >the Gilliam book excellent, albeit a smidge politically correct. (I >give my site the same criticism though) Ultimately it was Ragge's >relentless and heartless critique which got me out of the rooms. No one >had been so merciless before Ragge. I'll always hold that book in very >high regard. >Apple > Alan http://www.webroads.net/isser ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 Well well, if it isnt Alan " AA is the best " Ross. Yeah, another AA apologist in our midst would perk you up wouldnt it? This list isnt supposed to be abt being " neutral and unbiased " abt AA. Just in case you had forgotten. " alan ross " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8839 > This was a great post. Seemed completely neutral and without bias. > > Then again, there is the opinion that having no bias is like being biased... > but that's a different story... > > Anyway, it was cool. Look forward to more. > > > >http://www.eGroups.com/list/12-step-free/?start=8837 > > > >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups > >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ > >From: Psoftinfo@... > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:51:39 EDT > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Subject: An Introductory Message > >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >(WARNING: Long message!) > > > >I'm new to this email group, so let me give you some idea who I > >am ... > > > >- I am an atheist. > > > > > Apple, > > What was the Ragge book - " AA: Cult or cure " ...? Or a different one? > > >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups > >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ > >Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:49:08 -0700 > >From: appledtp@... > >In-Reply-To: > >Subject: Re: Great book > >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: text/plain > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >Yes, I read it. I read it just before I read Ragge's book. I found > >the Gilliam book excellent, albeit a smidge politically correct. (I > >give my site the same criticism though) Ultimately it was Ragge's > >relentless and heartless critique which got me out of the rooms. No one > >had been so merciless before Ragge. I'll always hold that book in very > >high regard. > >Apple > > > > > Alan > http://www.webroads.net/isser > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 1999 Report Share Posted November 1, 1999 This seemed like pretty good reasoning. Probably if I really believed that AA does more bad than good in the world, like a lot of people in this list seem to, I might buy into the line of reasoning. But given that assumption, its pretty good. >Kind of >like saying I believe in racial equality but I hang with these white >supremists because they have some good things to say and besides they >are rather level headed about their bigotry. Participation is a form of >support so you in fact support AA and in that light I can understand >how this is not a place for you. Maybe you should really read the BB >and contemplate the world view it supports and the farther reaching >inplications and harm it can and does manifest in society rather than >relaxing in the AA pleasantville you seem to experience in your own >back yard. > > > I heard one interesting thing in a meeting this weekend. (I'm not sure if quoting something that I heard in a meeting here is like when someone quotes the bible at a meeting - where they think that people will take kindly to it, but people really don't like it) We were all talking about how much B.S. you hear in the rooms, probably like three people in a row shared about it. Then this one guy said that you hear probably more B.S. in a bar than you do in a meeting. I have to say that I'd agree with that. If I was hanging out in a bar, I'd probably have to B.S. about sports, which I don't care about AT ALL, like 90% of the time. So that sounded like pretty good reasoning. Keep coming back it works if you work it get a sponsor work the steps get a higher power do a 90-in-90 and then leap off the tallest building you can find. : ] Alan http://www.webroads.net/isser ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 1999 Report Share Posted November 8, 1999 The only way you could be getting these emails is if someone signed you up for the service. You need to stop making threats when you don't know what you're talking about. You are harrassing everyone on the list more than they are harrassing you. Maybe WE should ALL write to your ISP. Hmmmmm... this person just started coming onto our list and making random threats at people when they had absolutely no idea what was going on... Good luck in the future... Alan >what didnt you get my message yet hmmmm can you say good bye from >your ISP >thats what happens if they get responses that your pulling this crap >so if >i >were you I'd think twice about sending out mass e-mails, BETTER >CHECK TO >SEE >MY EMAIL IS OFF YOUR LIST IF NOT I WILL TELL YOUR ISP YOUR DOING >THIS! p.s. This person is probably a stepper, which is why she got so pissed off at getting the list - she should really " turn it over " ... hehe ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 Pete wrote: >Ironically, it is quite likely that methadone >would be useful for depressives who arent opiate dependent, but with >methadone maintenance programs struggling for survival for opiate >dependents, there is little chance of it ever being subscribed for >other ppl. I know of a fellow in Tennessee who was on the Methadone Patients List, which I am also a member of. He managed to find a doctor who prescribed methadone for depression and he is doing very well on it. Of course finding such a doctor is a very rare thing. Methadone has an unusual quality that other opiate drugs don't have: it can be used to maintain a person without that person either nodding off on it (assuming the dose is correct) ... people on methadone are more able to actually get up and do things than people on pain pills or heroin. Also, a stable dose tends to remain the same, without the user developing the tolerance that would cause him or her to have to always be increasing the dose of methadone to avoid withdrawals. It really seems to be designed for exactly the thing that it is used for: maintenance. (And I do maintain that the stuff saved my life from ODs and all the other horrors of heroin.) -DM demitria monde thraam transmits at: http://thraam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 Pete wrote: >Ironically, it is quite likely that methadone >would be useful for depressives who arent opiate dependent, but with >methadone maintenance programs struggling for survival for opiate >dependents, there is little chance of it ever being subscribed for >other ppl. I know of a fellow in Tennessee who was on the Methadone Patients List, which I am also a member of. He managed to find a doctor who prescribed methadone for depression and he is doing very well on it. Of course finding such a doctor is a very rare thing. Methadone has an unusual quality that other opiate drugs don't have: it can be used to maintain a person without that person either nodding off on it (assuming the dose is correct) ... people on methadone are more able to actually get up and do things than people on pain pills or heroin. Also, a stable dose tends to remain the same, without the user developing the tolerance that would cause him or her to have to always be increasing the dose of methadone to avoid withdrawals. It really seems to be designed for exactly the thing that it is used for: maintenance. (And I do maintain that the stuff saved my life from ODs and all the other horrors of heroin.) -DM demitria monde thraam transmits at: http://thraam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 Pete wrote: >Ironically, it is quite likely that methadone >would be useful for depressives who arent opiate dependent, but with >methadone maintenance programs struggling for survival for opiate >dependents, there is little chance of it ever being subscribed for >other ppl. I know of a fellow in Tennessee who was on the Methadone Patients List, which I am also a member of. He managed to find a doctor who prescribed methadone for depression and he is doing very well on it. Of course finding such a doctor is a very rare thing. Methadone has an unusual quality that other opiate drugs don't have: it can be used to maintain a person without that person either nodding off on it (assuming the dose is correct) ... people on methadone are more able to actually get up and do things than people on pain pills or heroin. Also, a stable dose tends to remain the same, without the user developing the tolerance that would cause him or her to have to always be increasing the dose of methadone to avoid withdrawals. It really seems to be designed for exactly the thing that it is used for: maintenance. (And I do maintain that the stuff saved my life from ODs and all the other horrors of heroin.) -DM demitria monde thraam transmits at: http://thraam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT THIS SHRINK WHO TRIED PUTTING ME ON ANTABUSE WAS INEPT AS HELL! Sheesh, all the crap that has alcohol in it, anti-persperants, mouthwash, etc etc. I was an inpatient in a psych ward when this bimbo wanted me to take Antabuse. I 'cheeked' the damn pill, spit it in the toilet and tore the 'script to shreds after I was released. ~Trixxi re: 12-step-free digest > Jim wrote: > > >I realize what I've contributed is a bit of a detour from the main > >subject matter, but I hope that maybe I've provided some info that will > >spare some other junky the misery I brought on myself. You'll suffer > >plenty in mandatory 12-Step indoctrination; no need to compound the > >pain by playing around with naltrexone unsupervised. > > > Hello Jim...I'm also an ex-heroin addict...the only other one on the list as far as I can tell (and > if I'm wrong, and there are other ex-junkies here, give a wave!) > > I went the methadone route, and never once could deal with the whole idea of taking Trexan > (Naltrexone). It seemed as though it would just make me feel terrible. What if I got in an > accident and needed painkillers?! I didn't trust its effect on my own natural endorphines > either...what was left of them, that is. > > In the end methadone ended up being my saving grace. I'm trying to get off it now, though, > because it made me fat. I guess it's worth losing my figure to save my life, though, and I > maintain that if it weren't for methadone I'd have died years ago. But it's been 8 years now > and it's time to move on. Of course all my college buddies-turned-step-nazis are pleased as > punch about that decision. They probably think it's their prayers for me that caused it. Uh > boy. > > Take care, > -DMT > > > > > demitria monde thraam > transmits at: > http://thraam.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer > equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer > games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! > http://clickhere./click/1142 > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > -- /ChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT THIS SHRINK WHO TRIED PUTTING ME ON ANTABUSE WAS INEPT AS HELL! Sheesh, all the crap that has alcohol in it, anti-persperants, mouthwash, etc etc. I was an inpatient in a psych ward when this bimbo wanted me to take Antabuse. I 'cheeked' the damn pill, spit it in the toilet and tore the 'script to shreds after I was released. ~Trixxi re: 12-step-free digest > Jim wrote: > > >I realize what I've contributed is a bit of a detour from the main > >subject matter, but I hope that maybe I've provided some info that will > >spare some other junky the misery I brought on myself. You'll suffer > >plenty in mandatory 12-Step indoctrination; no need to compound the > >pain by playing around with naltrexone unsupervised. > > > Hello Jim...I'm also an ex-heroin addict...the only other one on the list as far as I can tell (and > if I'm wrong, and there are other ex-junkies here, give a wave!) > > I went the methadone route, and never once could deal with the whole idea of taking Trexan > (Naltrexone). It seemed as though it would just make me feel terrible. What if I got in an > accident and needed painkillers?! I didn't trust its effect on my own natural endorphines > either...what was left of them, that is. > > In the end methadone ended up being my saving grace. I'm trying to get off it now, though, > because it made me fat. I guess it's worth losing my figure to save my life, though, and I > maintain that if it weren't for methadone I'd have died years ago. But it's been 8 years now > and it's time to move on. Of course all my college buddies-turned-step-nazis are pleased as > punch about that decision. They probably think it's their prayers for me that caused it. Uh > boy. > > Take care, > -DMT > > > > > demitria monde thraam > transmits at: > http://thraam.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer > equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer > games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! > http://clickhere./click/1142 > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > -- /ChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT THIS SHRINK WHO TRIED PUTTING ME ON ANTABUSE WAS INEPT AS HELL! Sheesh, all the crap that has alcohol in it, anti-persperants, mouthwash, etc etc. I was an inpatient in a psych ward when this bimbo wanted me to take Antabuse. I 'cheeked' the damn pill, spit it in the toilet and tore the 'script to shreds after I was released. ~Trixxi re: 12-step-free digest > Jim wrote: > > >I realize what I've contributed is a bit of a detour from the main > >subject matter, but I hope that maybe I've provided some info that will > >spare some other junky the misery I brought on myself. You'll suffer > >plenty in mandatory 12-Step indoctrination; no need to compound the > >pain by playing around with naltrexone unsupervised. > > > Hello Jim...I'm also an ex-heroin addict...the only other one on the list as far as I can tell (and > if I'm wrong, and there are other ex-junkies here, give a wave!) > > I went the methadone route, and never once could deal with the whole idea of taking Trexan > (Naltrexone). It seemed as though it would just make me feel terrible. What if I got in an > accident and needed painkillers?! I didn't trust its effect on my own natural endorphines > either...what was left of them, that is. > > In the end methadone ended up being my saving grace. I'm trying to get off it now, though, > because it made me fat. I guess it's worth losing my figure to save my life, though, and I > maintain that if it weren't for methadone I'd have died years ago. But it's been 8 years now > and it's time to move on. Of course all my college buddies-turned-step-nazis are pleased as > punch about that decision. They probably think it's their prayers for me that caused it. Uh > boy. > > Take care, > -DMT > > > > > demitria monde thraam > transmits at: > http://thraam.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer > equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer > games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! > http://clickhere./click/1142 > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > -- /ChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 Jim wrote: >I realize what I've contributed is a bit of a detour from the main >subject matter, but I hope that maybe I've provided some info that will >spare some other junky the misery I brought on myself. You'll suffer >plenty in mandatory 12-Step indoctrination; no need to compound the >pain by playing around with naltrexone unsupervised. Hello Jim...I'm also an ex-heroin addict...the only other one on the list as far as I can tell (and if I'm wrong, and there are other ex-junkies here, give a wave!) I went the methadone route, and never once could deal with the whole idea of taking Trexan (Naltrexone). It seemed as though it would just make me feel terrible. What if I got in an accident and needed painkillers?! I didn't trust its effect on my own natural endorphines either...what was left of them, that is. In the end methadone ended up being my saving grace. I'm trying to get off it now, though, because it made me fat. I guess it's worth losing my figure to save my life, though, and I maintain that if it weren't for methadone I'd have died years ago. But it's been 8 years now and it's time to move on. Of course all my college buddies-turned-step-nazis are pleased as punch about that decision. They probably think it's their prayers for me that caused it. Uh boy. Take care, -DMT demitria monde thraam transmits at: http://thraam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 1999 Report Share Posted November 23, 1999 Alan wrote: >Anyway, I'm probably closer to drinking now than I've ever been. I've >abstained for like four and a half years and I'm thinking that I might be >able to control my drinking. The big problem is the " might " . The risks, >right now, just don't make it seem worth it. So, I think I'll probably not. >Goddamn it though, it fucking sucks. I don't believe in anything the >program stands for except that. I don't want to use - today. I guess I >have to stop feeling guilty for agreeing with them on that fact. I just >feel like so not a part of them... I want to break away... but I'm not >ready... yet. Just because you feel unsure of your ability to control your use right now doesn't mean you are attached to the " Program " . I think as long as you don't go around spouting slogans and running on dogma you're all right. Hell, I think all of us have at least one or two bits and pieces that we wanted to take, and " leave the rest " . It's just that the " rest " seems to usually consist of about 96% of the whole deal. My own example: I actually think the Serenity Prayer makes some modicum of sense, if I take the " God, grant me the...blahblahblah " part out and substitute it with " May I find the strength within myself " . and the idea and practise of the 9th step makes sense (it essentially equates to " dealing with your karma " .) It just has to be taken out of the context of all the rest of the poppycock, all the tripe about powerlessness and addiction-is-a-disease and Higher Power and all that. -dmt demitria monde thraam transmits at: http://thraam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 1999 Report Share Posted November 23, 1999 Alan wrote: >Anyway, I'm probably closer to drinking now than I've ever been. I've >abstained for like four and a half years and I'm thinking that I might be >able to control my drinking. The big problem is the " might " . The risks, >right now, just don't make it seem worth it. So, I think I'll probably not. >Goddamn it though, it fucking sucks. I don't believe in anything the >program stands for except that. I don't want to use - today. I guess I >have to stop feeling guilty for agreeing with them on that fact. I just >feel like so not a part of them... I want to break away... but I'm not >ready... yet. Just because you feel unsure of your ability to control your use right now doesn't mean you are attached to the " Program " . I think as long as you don't go around spouting slogans and running on dogma you're all right. Hell, I think all of us have at least one or two bits and pieces that we wanted to take, and " leave the rest " . It's just that the " rest " seems to usually consist of about 96% of the whole deal. My own example: I actually think the Serenity Prayer makes some modicum of sense, if I take the " God, grant me the...blahblahblah " part out and substitute it with " May I find the strength within myself " . and the idea and practise of the 9th step makes sense (it essentially equates to " dealing with your karma " .) It just has to be taken out of the context of all the rest of the poppycock, all the tripe about powerlessness and addiction-is-a-disease and Higher Power and all that. -dmt demitria monde thraam transmits at: http://thraam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 1999 Report Share Posted November 23, 1999 Alan wrote: >Anyway, I'm probably closer to drinking now than I've ever been. I've >abstained for like four and a half years and I'm thinking that I might be >able to control my drinking. The big problem is the " might " . The risks, >right now, just don't make it seem worth it. So, I think I'll probably not. >Goddamn it though, it fucking sucks. I don't believe in anything the >program stands for except that. I don't want to use - today. I guess I >have to stop feeling guilty for agreeing with them on that fact. I just >feel like so not a part of them... I want to break away... but I'm not >ready... yet. Just because you feel unsure of your ability to control your use right now doesn't mean you are attached to the " Program " . I think as long as you don't go around spouting slogans and running on dogma you're all right. Hell, I think all of us have at least one or two bits and pieces that we wanted to take, and " leave the rest " . It's just that the " rest " seems to usually consist of about 96% of the whole deal. My own example: I actually think the Serenity Prayer makes some modicum of sense, if I take the " God, grant me the...blahblahblah " part out and substitute it with " May I find the strength within myself " . and the idea and practise of the 9th step makes sense (it essentially equates to " dealing with your karma " .) It just has to be taken out of the context of all the rest of the poppycock, all the tripe about powerlessness and addiction-is-a-disease and Higher Power and all that. -dmt demitria monde thraam transmits at: http://thraam.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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