Guest guest Posted August 30, 1999 Report Share Posted August 30, 1999 >Hey people, > >I just subscribed after being referred by a friend who shares my >inability, despite years of trying, to accept the 12-step ideology. Sounds like a good friend. ; ) Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 1999 Report Share Posted August 30, 1999 >Hey people, > >I just subscribed after being referred by a friend who shares my >inability, despite years of trying, to accept the 12-step ideology. Sounds like a good friend. ; ) Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 >Hi Fred: >Welcome to the list. Some people are taking vacations so the list >isn't too active right now, but please don't be discouraged. Maybe >they'll come out of the woodwork. I don't know. I think the last list was probably the best so far. God, that pseudo-dream sequence about the flying aadeprogramming.com advirtisement over the AA convention was sooooo freakin' funny. Goddamn... anyway... I think I like the flyer idea the best - in terms of cost and practicality. Apple - please explain what you have exactly? Are they templates on computer, or what? I can definitely see acquiring a washie meeting list and distributing fake flyers - for the entertainment/socially productive value of it. Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 >Hi Fred: >Welcome to the list. Some people are taking vacations so the list >isn't too active right now, but please don't be discouraged. Maybe >they'll come out of the woodwork. I don't know. I think the last list was probably the best so far. God, that pseudo-dream sequence about the flying aadeprogramming.com advirtisement over the AA convention was sooooo freakin' funny. Goddamn... anyway... I think I like the flyer idea the best - in terms of cost and practicality. Apple - please explain what you have exactly? Are they templates on computer, or what? I can definitely see acquiring a washie meeting list and distributing fake flyers - for the entertainment/socially productive value of it. Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 >Hi Fred: >Welcome to the list. Some people are taking vacations so the list >isn't too active right now, but please don't be discouraged. Maybe >they'll come out of the woodwork. I don't know. I think the last list was probably the best so far. God, that pseudo-dream sequence about the flying aadeprogramming.com advirtisement over the AA convention was sooooo freakin' funny. Goddamn... anyway... I think I like the flyer idea the best - in terms of cost and practicality. Apple - please explain what you have exactly? Are they templates on computer, or what? I can definitely see acquiring a washie meeting list and distributing fake flyers - for the entertainment/socially productive value of it. Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 ....oh sign me up to chip in for the banner behind the plane and the flyers. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 ....oh sign me up to chip in for the banner behind the plane and the flyers. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 ....oh sign me up to chip in for the banner behind the plane and the flyers. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 Yes, I have a template. I really like the idea of fake pamphlets. Of course, when printing, setting the job up on the press is the expensive part, then choosing 10,000 vs. 1000 copies is insignificant in price difference. I need a really honest printer who can keep his mouth shut. Last thing I need is a damn stepper at the press calling the GSO or something. I'm totally enamored by the idea, and would like to take them to conferences etc. Apple > >Hi Fred: > >Welcome to the list. Some people are taking vacations so the list > >isn't too active right now, but please don't be discouraged. Maybe > >they'll come out of the woodwork. > > I don't know. I think the last list was probably the best so far. God, > that pseudo-dream sequence about the flying aadeprogramming.com > advirtisement over the AA convention was sooooo freakin' funny. Goddamn... > anyway... > > I think I like the flyer idea the best - in terms of cost and practicality. > Apple - please explain what you have exactly? Are they templates on > computer, or what? > > I can definitely see acquiring a washie meeting list and distributing fake > flyers - for the entertainment/socially productive value of it. > > > Alan > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 Yes, I have a template. I really like the idea of fake pamphlets. Of course, when printing, setting the job up on the press is the expensive part, then choosing 10,000 vs. 1000 copies is insignificant in price difference. I need a really honest printer who can keep his mouth shut. Last thing I need is a damn stepper at the press calling the GSO or something. I'm totally enamored by the idea, and would like to take them to conferences etc. Apple > >Hi Fred: > >Welcome to the list. Some people are taking vacations so the list > >isn't too active right now, but please don't be discouraged. Maybe > >they'll come out of the woodwork. > > I don't know. I think the last list was probably the best so far. God, > that pseudo-dream sequence about the flying aadeprogramming.com > advirtisement over the AA convention was sooooo freakin' funny. Goddamn... > anyway... > > I think I like the flyer idea the best - in terms of cost and practicality. > Apple - please explain what you have exactly? Are they templates on > computer, or what? > > I can definitely see acquiring a washie meeting list and distributing fake > flyers - for the entertainment/socially productive value of it. > > > Alan > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 1999 Report Share Posted September 1, 1999 Yes, I have a template. I really like the idea of fake pamphlets. Of course, when printing, setting the job up on the press is the expensive part, then choosing 10,000 vs. 1000 copies is insignificant in price difference. I need a really honest printer who can keep his mouth shut. Last thing I need is a damn stepper at the press calling the GSO or something. I'm totally enamored by the idea, and would like to take them to conferences etc. Apple > >Hi Fred: > >Welcome to the list. Some people are taking vacations so the list > >isn't too active right now, but please don't be discouraged. Maybe > >they'll come out of the woodwork. > > I don't know. I think the last list was probably the best so far. God, > that pseudo-dream sequence about the flying aadeprogramming.com > advirtisement over the AA convention was sooooo freakin' funny. Goddamn... > anyway... > > I think I like the flyer idea the best - in terms of cost and practicality. > Apple - please explain what you have exactly? Are they templates on > computer, or what? > > I can definitely see acquiring a washie meeting list and distributing fake > flyers - for the entertainment/socially productive value of it. > > > Alan > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 >Hi list: >I've been wondering something... I think the deprogramming site is >really useful for women especially, and addresses many problems which >women face in AA (AA's effect on abuse issues, gender issues, >predator >problem). Despite this, I seem to get a lot more mail from men. I >wonder why this is? >Apple Hmmm... could be a dangerous question to reply to, but... First, there's definitely more men that become substance abusers, in general. That's verified in psychological and criminological studies(Can't get in trouble for that one). Also, I like your " more men on the internet " theory. Those two together seem like they would explain the phenomenon. Other (more dangerous) theories: - Women seem to be more easily brainwashed by the program. Like, they get into religion more and they are more likely to buy into the whole subserviance to a higher power thing (very dangerous - I think I might get hanged for that one). Not saying that its a biological thing. Just that society deems those attributes more appropriate for women. - Women seem to be less rebelious, in general. Its more of a guy thing to be into rebelling from things. Although I know of plenty of women who do rebell, I still think it more likely for men to do. I think I'll stop there. I think I've given a little too much ammo for the feminists to use against me. Anyway. I have a question of my own - I've heard people on the list saying that the evidence out there points to the program not being as good as other forms of treatment. I was a psychology major with a focus in substance abuse (both personal and through research) - and as far as I understand it, the overwhelming evidence points to the program as the tested, successful method of choice. Most of that research is pretty strong, simply because the program has been around for long enough for long term research to be valid. Although there are more recent isolated studies, it would be a hard case to make that there is a " large " body of scientific evidence concluding that the program is not the best form of treatment... if anyone knows otherwise, please advise... That is, pointing to the one study that Trimpy did does not suffice... By the way, I'm not trying to defend the program, per se. Just trying to be intellectually honest about the whole thing... I think its still a valid position for a " Free-thinker " to take that the program is the proven " best " method out there for the average person, but that the program still SUCKS!!! Whew... anyway... Laterz, Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 > By the way, I'm not trying to defend the program, per se. Just trying to be intellectually honest about the whole thing... I think its still a valid position for a " Free-thinker " to take that the program is the proven " best " method out there for the average person, but that the program still SUCKS!!!> Speaking for myself: I don't want you to apologize for telling what you know to be the truth. I carry some fairytales near and dear to my heart, but I don't want to pretend they are the truth. They are more to comfort me when things are tough--not a lifelong place to live. I have my own experience, which was, I believe, that no intervention would have been better for me than being pushed into 12-step treatment. I know my experience is not generalize-able. There's a conflict: AA can be effective, AA can be harmful. The more we learn, the better the chances that people can get what is effective and be spared what is harmful. Judith ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 > By the way, I'm not trying to defend the program, per se. Just trying to be intellectually honest about the whole thing... I think its still a valid position for a " Free-thinker " to take that the program is the proven " best " method out there for the average person, but that the program still SUCKS!!!> Speaking for myself: I don't want you to apologize for telling what you know to be the truth. I carry some fairytales near and dear to my heart, but I don't want to pretend they are the truth. They are more to comfort me when things are tough--not a lifelong place to live. I have my own experience, which was, I believe, that no intervention would have been better for me than being pushed into 12-step treatment. I know my experience is not generalize-able. There's a conflict: AA can be effective, AA can be harmful. The more we learn, the better the chances that people can get what is effective and be spared what is harmful. Judith ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 Don't worry Alan, I'm not going to nail you to the wall as a male chauvinist pig or anything. Know why, cause you're right. One of the books I read during my deprogramming is called " Women Under The Influence " published by AFF, a foundation that studies the dangers of cults and thought-reform organizations. The book deals with women's succeptibility to fall for thought-reform groups, and the roots of that succeptibility which is found in their socialization. Women have more experience being the " lower power " , and it is a more natural fit to meld into a group like AA because of it. It's NOT a healthy fit, but it is a more familiar one. I think women tend to feel more internalized rage/anger than men do, and you're right, they rebel less. Why? Well, life is a different experience for women all around. I can even think of a few cases in the past when I really let a guy have it for being a jerk, and the response was " you're so cute when you're angry " followed by a nose tweak. That's the response to my dead-serious anger! Can any of you guys imagine someone doing that to you? Makes me want to buy a gun. There's always a touch of residual fear in our daily lives, and that's why we develop the skill of not " upseting " people, meanwhile internalizing our pain. Women are usually smaller and less strong/fast than our male counterparts and violence against women is an everyday part of mainstream entertainment. Watch her scream... watch her bleed .... cool! The slut deserved it. and so on. All of these things affect how much we rebel! But I do think that we have a better intuition (gut instinct) than men do, which warns us of dangers. When we drink the women's intuition doesn't work too well. But don't call all women complacent.... Underneath this seemingly harmless fruity exterior, I'm a relentless rebel run riot. Apple > > Hmmm... could be a dangerous question to reply to, but... > > First, there's definitely more men that become substance abusers, in > general. That's verified in psychological and criminological studies(Can't > get in trouble for that one). > > Also, I like your " more men on the internet " theory. > > Those two together seem like they would explain the phenomenon. Other (more > dangerous) theories: > > - Women seem to be more easily brainwashed by the program. Like, they get > into religion more and they are more likely to buy into the whole > subserviance to a higher power thing (very dangerous - I think I might get > hanged for that one). Not saying that its a biological thing. Just that > society deems those attributes more appropriate for women. > > - Women seem to be less rebelious, in general. Its more of a guy thing to > be into rebelling from things. Although I know of plenty of women who do > rebell, I still think it more likely for men to do. > > I think I'll stop there. I think I've given a little too much ammo for the > feminists to use against me. > > Anyway. I have a question of my own - I've heard people on the list saying > that the evidence out there points to the program not being as good as other > forms of treatment. I was a psychology major with a focus in substance > abuse (both personal and through research) - and as far as I understand it, > the overwhelming evidence points to the program as the tested, successful > method of choice. Most of that research is pretty strong, simply because > the program has been around for long enough for long term research to be > valid. Although there are more recent isolated studies, it would be a hard > case to make that there is a " large " body of scientific evidence concluding > that the program is not the best form of treatment... if anyone knows > otherwise, please advise... > > That is, pointing to the one study that Trimpy did does not suffice... > > By the way, I'm not trying to defend the program, per se. Just trying to be > intellectually honest about the whole thing... I think its still a valid > position for a " Free-thinker " to take that the program is the proven " best " > method out there for the average person, but that the program still SUCKS!!! > > Whew... anyway... > > Laterz, > > Alan > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 Don't worry Alan, I'm not going to nail you to the wall as a male chauvinist pig or anything. Know why, cause you're right. One of the books I read during my deprogramming is called " Women Under The Influence " published by AFF, a foundation that studies the dangers of cults and thought-reform organizations. The book deals with women's succeptibility to fall for thought-reform groups, and the roots of that succeptibility which is found in their socialization. Women have more experience being the " lower power " , and it is a more natural fit to meld into a group like AA because of it. It's NOT a healthy fit, but it is a more familiar one. I think women tend to feel more internalized rage/anger than men do, and you're right, they rebel less. Why? Well, life is a different experience for women all around. I can even think of a few cases in the past when I really let a guy have it for being a jerk, and the response was " you're so cute when you're angry " followed by a nose tweak. That's the response to my dead-serious anger! Can any of you guys imagine someone doing that to you? Makes me want to buy a gun. There's always a touch of residual fear in our daily lives, and that's why we develop the skill of not " upseting " people, meanwhile internalizing our pain. Women are usually smaller and less strong/fast than our male counterparts and violence against women is an everyday part of mainstream entertainment. Watch her scream... watch her bleed .... cool! The slut deserved it. and so on. All of these things affect how much we rebel! But I do think that we have a better intuition (gut instinct) than men do, which warns us of dangers. When we drink the women's intuition doesn't work too well. But don't call all women complacent.... Underneath this seemingly harmless fruity exterior, I'm a relentless rebel run riot. Apple > > Hmmm... could be a dangerous question to reply to, but... > > First, there's definitely more men that become substance abusers, in > general. That's verified in psychological and criminological studies(Can't > get in trouble for that one). > > Also, I like your " more men on the internet " theory. > > Those two together seem like they would explain the phenomenon. Other (more > dangerous) theories: > > - Women seem to be more easily brainwashed by the program. Like, they get > into religion more and they are more likely to buy into the whole > subserviance to a higher power thing (very dangerous - I think I might get > hanged for that one). Not saying that its a biological thing. Just that > society deems those attributes more appropriate for women. > > - Women seem to be less rebelious, in general. Its more of a guy thing to > be into rebelling from things. Although I know of plenty of women who do > rebell, I still think it more likely for men to do. > > I think I'll stop there. I think I've given a little too much ammo for the > feminists to use against me. > > Anyway. I have a question of my own - I've heard people on the list saying > that the evidence out there points to the program not being as good as other > forms of treatment. I was a psychology major with a focus in substance > abuse (both personal and through research) - and as far as I understand it, > the overwhelming evidence points to the program as the tested, successful > method of choice. Most of that research is pretty strong, simply because > the program has been around for long enough for long term research to be > valid. Although there are more recent isolated studies, it would be a hard > case to make that there is a " large " body of scientific evidence concluding > that the program is not the best form of treatment... if anyone knows > otherwise, please advise... > > That is, pointing to the one study that Trimpy did does not suffice... > > By the way, I'm not trying to defend the program, per se. Just trying to be > intellectually honest about the whole thing... I think its still a valid > position for a " Free-thinker " to take that the program is the proven " best " > method out there for the average person, but that the program still SUCKS!!! > > Whew... anyway... > > Laterz, > > Alan > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 Hey Apple: Did you receive the information about the studies done regarding psychological profiles of those that submit " hook line and sinker' to steppism. I just want to comfirm my theory on this issue and would like to know what others have to say that have studied those personality types. Since I have been going to these meetings and observing behaviors in those groups of people, I have noticed some common pathological anti social and general mix of psychiatric disorders. I am particularly interested in grandios dillusional thinking that exists in thinking processes of the icon steppists wana be cult gurus. These are the dangerous ones! Re: 12-step-free digest > Don't worry Alan, I'm not going to nail you to the wall as a male > chauvinist pig or anything. Know why, cause you're right. One of the > books I read during my deprogramming is called " Women Under The > Influence " published by AFF, a foundation that studies the dangers of > cults and thought-reform organizations. The book deals with women's > succeptibility to fall for thought-reform groups, and the roots of that > succeptibility which is found in their socialization. > Women have more experience being the " lower power " , and it is a more > natural fit to meld into a group like AA because of it. It's NOT a > healthy fit, but it is a more familiar one. > I think women tend to feel more internalized rage/anger than men do, > and you're right, they rebel less. Why? Well, life is a different > experience for women all around. I can even think of a few cases in the > past when I really let a guy have it for being a jerk, and the response > was " you're so cute when you're angry " followed by a nose tweak. That's > the response to my dead-serious anger! Can any of you guys imagine > someone doing that to you? Makes me want to buy a gun. > > There's always a touch of residual fear in our daily lives, and that's > why we develop the skill of not " upseting " people, meanwhile > internalizing our pain. Women are usually smaller and less strong/fast > than our male counterparts and violence against women is an everyday > part of mainstream entertainment. Watch her scream... watch her bleed > ... cool! The slut deserved it. and so on. > > All of these things affect how much we rebel! > > But I do think that we have a better intuition (gut instinct) than men > do, which warns us of dangers. When we drink the women's intuition > doesn't work too well. > > But don't call all women complacent.... Underneath this seemingly > harmless fruity exterior, I'm a relentless rebel run riot. > Apple > > > > > Hmmm... could be a dangerous question to reply to, but... > > > > First, there's definitely more men that become substance abusers, in > > general. That's verified in psychological and criminological > studies(Can't > > get in trouble for that one). > > > > Also, I like your " more men on the internet " theory. > > > > Those two together seem like they would explain the phenomenon. > Other (more > > dangerous) theories: > > > > - Women seem to be more easily brainwashed by the program. Like, > they get > > into religion more and they are more likely to buy into the whole > > subserviance to a higher power thing (very dangerous - I think I > might get > > hanged for that one). Not saying that its a biological thing. Just > that > > society deems those attributes more appropriate for women. > > > > - Women seem to be less rebelious, in general. Its more of a guy > thing to > > be into rebelling from things. Although I know of plenty of women > who do > > rebell, I still think it more likely for men to do. > > > > I think I'll stop there. I think I've given a little too much ammo > for the > > feminists to use against me. > > > > Anyway. I have a question of my own - I've heard people on the list > saying > > that the evidence out there points to the program not being as good > as other > > forms of treatment. I was a psychology major with a focus in > substance > > abuse (both personal and through research) - and as far as I > understand it, > > the overwhelming evidence points to the program as the tested, > successful > > method of choice. Most of that research is pretty strong, simply > because > > the program has been around for long enough for long term research to > be > > valid. Although there are more recent isolated studies, it would be > a hard > > case to make that there is a " large " body of scientific evidence > concluding > > that the program is not the best form of treatment... if anyone knows > > otherwise, please advise... > > > > That is, pointing to the one study that Trimpy did does not suffice... > > > > By the way, I'm not trying to defend the program, per se. Just > trying to be > > intellectually honest about the whole thing... I think its still a > valid > > position for a " Free-thinker " to take that the program is the proven > " best " > > method out there for the average person, but that the program still > SUCKS!!! > > > > Whew... anyway... > > > > Laterz, > > > > Alan > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online. > Start with up to 150 Points for joining! > http://clickhere./click/805 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 Hey Apple: Did you receive the information about the studies done regarding psychological profiles of those that submit " hook line and sinker' to steppism. I just want to comfirm my theory on this issue and would like to know what others have to say that have studied those personality types. Since I have been going to these meetings and observing behaviors in those groups of people, I have noticed some common pathological anti social and general mix of psychiatric disorders. I am particularly interested in grandios dillusional thinking that exists in thinking processes of the icon steppists wana be cult gurus. These are the dangerous ones! Re: 12-step-free digest > Don't worry Alan, I'm not going to nail you to the wall as a male > chauvinist pig or anything. Know why, cause you're right. One of the > books I read during my deprogramming is called " Women Under The > Influence " published by AFF, a foundation that studies the dangers of > cults and thought-reform organizations. The book deals with women's > succeptibility to fall for thought-reform groups, and the roots of that > succeptibility which is found in their socialization. > Women have more experience being the " lower power " , and it is a more > natural fit to meld into a group like AA because of it. It's NOT a > healthy fit, but it is a more familiar one. > I think women tend to feel more internalized rage/anger than men do, > and you're right, they rebel less. Why? Well, life is a different > experience for women all around. I can even think of a few cases in the > past when I really let a guy have it for being a jerk, and the response > was " you're so cute when you're angry " followed by a nose tweak. That's > the response to my dead-serious anger! Can any of you guys imagine > someone doing that to you? Makes me want to buy a gun. > > There's always a touch of residual fear in our daily lives, and that's > why we develop the skill of not " upseting " people, meanwhile > internalizing our pain. Women are usually smaller and less strong/fast > than our male counterparts and violence against women is an everyday > part of mainstream entertainment. Watch her scream... watch her bleed > ... cool! The slut deserved it. and so on. > > All of these things affect how much we rebel! > > But I do think that we have a better intuition (gut instinct) than men > do, which warns us of dangers. When we drink the women's intuition > doesn't work too well. > > But don't call all women complacent.... Underneath this seemingly > harmless fruity exterior, I'm a relentless rebel run riot. > Apple > > > > > Hmmm... could be a dangerous question to reply to, but... > > > > First, there's definitely more men that become substance abusers, in > > general. That's verified in psychological and criminological > studies(Can't > > get in trouble for that one). > > > > Also, I like your " more men on the internet " theory. > > > > Those two together seem like they would explain the phenomenon. > Other (more > > dangerous) theories: > > > > - Women seem to be more easily brainwashed by the program. Like, > they get > > into religion more and they are more likely to buy into the whole > > subserviance to a higher power thing (very dangerous - I think I > might get > > hanged for that one). Not saying that its a biological thing. Just > that > > society deems those attributes more appropriate for women. > > > > - Women seem to be less rebelious, in general. Its more of a guy > thing to > > be into rebelling from things. Although I know of plenty of women > who do > > rebell, I still think it more likely for men to do. > > > > I think I'll stop there. I think I've given a little too much ammo > for the > > feminists to use against me. > > > > Anyway. I have a question of my own - I've heard people on the list > saying > > that the evidence out there points to the program not being as good > as other > > forms of treatment. I was a psychology major with a focus in > substance > > abuse (both personal and through research) - and as far as I > understand it, > > the overwhelming evidence points to the program as the tested, > successful > > method of choice. Most of that research is pretty strong, simply > because > > the program has been around for long enough for long term research to > be > > valid. Although there are more recent isolated studies, it would be > a hard > > case to make that there is a " large " body of scientific evidence > concluding > > that the program is not the best form of treatment... if anyone knows > > otherwise, please advise... > > > > That is, pointing to the one study that Trimpy did does not suffice... > > > > By the way, I'm not trying to defend the program, per se. Just > trying to be > > intellectually honest about the whole thing... I think its still a > valid > > position for a " Free-thinker " to take that the program is the proven > " best " > > method out there for the average person, but that the program still > SUCKS!!! > > > > Whew... anyway... > > > > Laterz, > > > > Alan > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online. > Start with up to 150 Points for joining! > http://clickhere./click/805 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 Yes, I did get it in the mail, but it's a bound book that I can't photocopy. It groups the AA members into 3 predominant categories: 1) The depressive 2) The narcissist (personality disorder) 3) The borderline (personality disorder) Each type responds to different aspects of the program. The first batch responds well to the spirituality, the second to structure and the third to the community (I think) I'm tired now, but will check on it later... Might be worth it to check out the latter two personality disorders on the net. Apple > Hey Apple: > > Did you receive the information about the studies done regarding > psychological profiles of those that submit " hook line and sinker' to > steppism. I just want to comfirm my theory on this issue and would like to > know what others have to say that have studied those personality types. > Since I have been going to these meetings and observing behaviors in those > groups of people, I have noticed some common pathological anti social and > general mix of psychiatric disorders. I am particularly interested in > grandios dillusional thinking that exists in thinking processes of the icon > steppists wana be cult gurus. These are the dangerous ones! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 Yes, I did get it in the mail, but it's a bound book that I can't photocopy. It groups the AA members into 3 predominant categories: 1) The depressive 2) The narcissist (personality disorder) 3) The borderline (personality disorder) Each type responds to different aspects of the program. The first batch responds well to the spirituality, the second to structure and the third to the community (I think) I'm tired now, but will check on it later... Might be worth it to check out the latter two personality disorders on the net. Apple > Hey Apple: > > Did you receive the information about the studies done regarding > psychological profiles of those that submit " hook line and sinker' to > steppism. I just want to comfirm my theory on this issue and would like to > know what others have to say that have studied those personality types. > Since I have been going to these meetings and observing behaviors in those > groups of people, I have noticed some common pathological anti social and > general mix of psychiatric disorders. I am particularly interested in > grandios dillusional thinking that exists in thinking processes of the icon > steppists wana be cult gurus. These are the dangerous ones! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 1999 Report Share Posted September 5, 1999 Apple, So if you have the templates of the tri-folds on your computer, what would prevent you from redoing them, then distributing them to interested parties (on the list) and they could print them out on their own computers and/or pay someone to do it. Like, what format are they in on your computer? Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 1999 Report Share Posted September 5, 1999 Apple, So if you have the templates of the tri-folds on your computer, what would prevent you from redoing them, then distributing them to interested parties (on the list) and they could print them out on their own computers and/or pay someone to do it. Like, what format are they in on your computer? Alan ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 1999 Report Share Posted September 5, 1999 They are in Quark X-press for Mac. You mean the brochures right... The kind of template I have is for the standard grey brochure with the diagonal color block with white text over color. Apple > Apple, > > So if you have the templates of the tri-folds on your computer, what would > prevent you from redoing them, then distributing them to interested parties > (on the list) and they could print them out on their own computers and/or > pay someone to do it. Like, what format are they in on your computer? > > > Alan > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 1999 Report Share Posted September 5, 1999 They are in Quark X-press for Mac. You mean the brochures right... The kind of template I have is for the standard grey brochure with the diagonal color block with white text over color. Apple > Apple, > > So if you have the templates of the tri-folds on your computer, what would > prevent you from redoing them, then distributing them to interested parties > (on the list) and they could print them out on their own computers and/or > pay someone to do it. Like, what format are they in on your computer? > > > Alan > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 1999 Report Share Posted September 9, 1999 In a message dated 9/9/99 12:54:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alandross@... writes: > t can, and it has been. There are many scientifically sound long-term > studies that prove that it is beneficial to a statistically significant > degree. Again, I'm not denying that there may be studies backing other > programs, but there's no way that they have the long-term studies which are > considered essential in psychology and the study of addiction. Hmm. Could the answer to that one then be that AA is beneficial to those newly sober, but somehow retards individual growth in those who have gotten past the initial cravings and are working to improve their lives, as seems to be the logical progression of the steps? How can the very program that claims to create change and progress in its members reject those who have found a way other than AA to achieve the same ends?? The big book doesn't say anywhere I've seen that seeking any outside assistance is prohibited, as long as nobody mentions it inside the hallowed halls of AA ( - : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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