Re: pardon?

[Guest guest]

Luanne;

Please re-read the passage again.

It says:

It is possible to overcome and/or deal with PTSD. Please slow down.

Possible is not definite and " and/ or " means " either " " or " .

I never said I was cured. I said basically that I could deal with it.

My first memory of being alive, by the way was being forced to perform oral

sex at the age of 3.

>From: LuanneP@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: pardon?

>Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:20:13 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>wrose2@... writes:

>

><< It is possible to overcome and /or deal

> with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

> >>

>

>

>You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon general

>and

>publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and have

>been

>told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE -

>PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet Center and

>notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit from

>this

>knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals, put up

>a

>web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

>

>As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can be

>identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

>

>Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape. Maybe

>you

>should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

>

>Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell me

>that

>you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

>

>Luanne

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

>NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

>http://clickhere./click/606

>

>

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> - Simplifying group communications

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_______________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Luanne;

Please re-read the passage again.

It says:

It is possible to overcome and/or deal with PTSD. Please slow down.

Possible is not definite and " and/ or " means " either " " or " .

I never said I was cured. I said basically that I could deal with it.

My first memory of being alive, by the way was being forced to perform oral

sex at the age of 3.

>From: LuanneP@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: pardon?

>Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:20:13 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>wrose2@... writes:

>

><< It is possible to overcome and /or deal

> with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

> >>

>

>

>You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon general

>and

>publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and have

>been

>told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE -

>PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet Center and

>notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit from

>this

>knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals, put up

>a

>web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

>

>As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can be

>identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

>

>Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape. Maybe

>you

>should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

>

>Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell me

>that

>you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

>

>Luanne

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

>NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

>http://clickhere./click/606

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

_______________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

As regards drinking or not after AA, it's an individual choice. I know

there are people who should remain abstinent. Irregardless of any recovery

program, some are very susceptible to problem and abusive drinking. If one

knows deep down they will abuse alcohol and that they should not drink, then

the hell with what anyone else thinks. Good for them and it is one less

drunk on the road, one less hungover employee, one less spouse or partner

exposed to the rages that often come with drinking. This attitude of " I'm

free to do whatever I want, so long as it doesn't hurt someone " can be a BS

statement sometimes. Do we really know when we decide to take an action

that it will not hurt or affect negatively anyone else?

I am for a variety of recovery methods for problem drinkers. My opinion is

that most destructive habits for many people can only be brought under

control with support from others in the same situation for a period of time

but with the message that eventually the group matures to become big boys

and girls and gets on with their lives, less one socially painful habit. I

say this because, despite what we all may think of AA, etc., abusive

drinking is the catalyst (sp?) for a lot of misery in western society. Who

can argue that violent abuse to children and spouses, death of loved ones

from drunk drivers, fights and violent arguments, and other things (for

instance, an environmental disaster from an oil spill up in Alaska 10 years

ago), had alcoholic drinking as the trigger?

So let's not pooh-pooh those who chose to be abstinent after AA. If and

when I ever have a drink, if it starts turning into the style I had before I

stopped drinking altogether, you can bet I'm gonna go abstinent again!

Jan

Re: pardon?

>In a message dated 7/25/99 9:40:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

>saes@... writes:

>

><< Just because that's true for you doesn't mean that it's true for

>everybody. >>

>

>

>I agree. Most of the ex-drunks that I know though, could not go back to

>moderate drinking. Like me, too many of 'em 'tried' many times to drink

>moderately, only to fail.

>

>Best,

>luanne

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

>http://clickhere./click/552

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< It is possible to overcome and /or deal

with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

>>

You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon general and

publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and have been

told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE -

PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet Center and

notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit from this

knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals, put up a

web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can be

identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape. Maybe you

should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell me that

you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< It is possible to overcome and /or deal

with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

>>

You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon general and

publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and have been

told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE -

PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet Center and

notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit from this

knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals, put up a

web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can be

identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape. Maybe you

should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell me that

you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

Luanne

[Guest guest]

I wish you well, Luanne. I'm not about to question your pain as I don't

think I've been that close to big time trauma (but maybe I have - I'll go

into it later). I used to think the women married to abusive husbands could

change things by acting differently; now I see from my marriage to a cruel,

self-centered man that that's not the way to look at it. I can get cynical

and then somehow find myself in a situation and have to change my way of

looking at things.

I'm taking a good look at my past now because every man I've been married to

or had an intimate relationship with has been the self-centered, problem

drinker type and held me at arms length it seemed. I had a best friend in

junior and senior high school and then she took me completely by surprise by

trying to sexually molest me. She got in touch with me some months back,

we are in our 40's now and wanted to resume our friendship. Turns out she

is just as pushy as she was in school. Calling almost every day 10-15

times (I have caller ID and just let the phone ring). It's scary to me that

she is so obsessed, even now.

The man who lived next door to my family when I grew up exposed himself to

me a few times and I learned later he did to my younger sister and also my

mother.

I went out on a date with a guy from high school when I was 19, went to a

party, he mickeyed up my drink and I started hallucinating then lost all

memory till I woke up in the wee hours in a bed naked and with one of the

other guys at the party. That's how I lost my virginity. To this day I

have no idea if it was just him or all the guys took a turn.

So I may be a member of this PTSD thing - all I know is I haven't been able

to form a decent loving relationship with any man I've been involved with,

have lived a sluttish kind of life for a spell after my first marriage (to a

drunk) broke up and had a problem with alcoholic drinking. Sometimes I find

myself coming across as big and brave when deep inside, people scare me.

That's enough for now. I didn't intend to lay things out so bluntly but

this group is safe for me.

Jan

Re: pardon?

>In a message dated 7/26/99 7:52:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>kayleighs@... writes:

>

><< There will be a DSM V sooner or later,

> and perhaps they will say PTSD is treatable. I think it's kind of

> funny when they actually determine that a particular disorder no longer

> exists. Does that mean a person with that DX is suddenly well? >>

>

>

>Let me tell you...I have lived with PTSD for the last 17 years of my life.

>It is AWFUL and I would rather be in a wheel chair than suffer from this

>'thing.'

>

>My therapist has told me that symptoms can be minumized and triggers can be

>acknowledged/recognized, but there is no cure. Seems like what is written

>above would be from a person who doesn't suffer from PTSD or any other

mental

>illness/disorder because most folks who know anything about PTSD understand

>that there is no 'cure.' I have had people tell me in the past " Oh, you

>just need to exercise " or " Oh, you need a vacation " or " Oh, you need a

>boyfriend. " That kind of mentality.......I think that nobody can

understand

>PTSD unless they themselves suffer from it, or live with a fellow sufferer

of

>this disorder. My alcoholism and drug addiction were symptoms, as were the

>five suicide attempts while intoxicated.

>

>BTW, I am on xanax, effexor, trazedone and imitrex (for migraines). I see

>therapist either once a week, or once every two weeks.

>

>Luanne

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

>http://clickhere./click/552

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 10:16:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< t is possible to overcome and/or deal with PTSD >>

This statement is incorrect. If you feel that it is true, as I said, please

inform the whole medical community. There is no known cure for PTSD.

'Dealing with' - yes, I suppose that can happen although I do not believe it

will make my life any less fucked up than it is now. I know that I will

always have triggers and symptoms.

I have been on several mailing lists for folks who suffer from PTSD. If you

joined and said that you 'overcame' PTSD, you would have been laughed right

off the lists, especially by the Combat Vets.

Incidentally, the gang-rape was only a small part of my trauma. I don't go

into gory details about everything that has happened to me on mailing lists.

Perhaps you would had a mild case of PTSD, I do not know. I do know that

there is no known 'cure' as it is a personality disorder caused by trauma.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 10:16:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< t is possible to overcome and/or deal with PTSD >>

This statement is incorrect. If you feel that it is true, as I said, please

inform the whole medical community. There is no known cure for PTSD.

'Dealing with' - yes, I suppose that can happen although I do not believe it

will make my life any less fucked up than it is now. I know that I will

always have triggers and symptoms.

I have been on several mailing lists for folks who suffer from PTSD. If you

joined and said that you 'overcame' PTSD, you would have been laughed right

off the lists, especially by the Combat Vets.

Incidentally, the gang-rape was only a small part of my trauma. I don't go

into gory details about everything that has happened to me on mailing lists.

Perhaps you would had a mild case of PTSD, I do not know. I do know that

there is no known 'cure' as it is a personality disorder caused by trauma.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 6:16:19 AM Central Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< It isn't right or fair what happened-but if you can LIVE with it-it makes

you stronger then average, right? I like to think that.

>>

,

You are so very right with this statement. All of us have suffered from some

form of PTSD, The how's or why's just don't matter.

But if one can face what TRULY happened, and realize it wasn't YOUR fault

that you were a victim of terrible experiences.

One can learn to keep living and looking for the good up ahead.

I come to this posting to SHARE pain and anger, and sometimes

HAPPY Things!!!! (what a concept from where I have been)

Not Degrade, or judge, shame or blame...If I want to do that, perhaps I had

better go back to the Hells, I mean, Halls of AA.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 6:16:19 AM Central Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< It isn't right or fair what happened-but if you can LIVE with it-it makes

you stronger then average, right? I like to think that.

>>

,

You are so very right with this statement. All of us have suffered from some

form of PTSD, The how's or why's just don't matter.

But if one can face what TRULY happened, and realize it wasn't YOUR fault

that you were a victim of terrible experiences.

One can learn to keep living and looking for the good up ahead.

I come to this posting to SHARE pain and anger, and sometimes

HAPPY Things!!!! (what a concept from where I have been)

Not Degrade, or judge, shame or blame...If I want to do that, perhaps I had

better go back to the Hells, I mean, Halls of AA.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups

From: LuanneP@...

Date sent: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:20:13 EDT

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: pardon?

> In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> wrose2@... writes:

>

> << It is possible to overcome and /or deal

> with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

> >>

>

>

> You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon general and

> publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and have been

> told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE -

> PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet Center and

> notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit from this

> knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals, put up a

> web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

>

> As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can be

> identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

>

> Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape. Maybe you

> should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

>

> Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell me that

> you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

>

> Luanne

Hello Luanne;

The things you're saying remind me of most every AA speaker I've

heard.

If someone gets well, it's because they weren't as bad as you, or

didn't have it as rough. Everything MUST be the black and white

AA way. Unfortunately you're listening to a second PTSD survivor.

Sure I still have some of the subtle effects, the sudden not wanting

to do anything and the flu like symptoms and feeling like my head

is full of cotton. However, I can read a novel at one sitting if it's

interesting. I work in a technical field(Electronics)

Jumping out and calling folks liars won't make your PTSD any

better or probably any worse, but if and I did have full blown

PTSD and are now better, it really doesn't effect our recovery if you

believe we're just nutcases.

Probably some folks get better, others don't because it's

impossible. Let me tell you a story, and I'm told tis true.

Henry Ford hired young men of promise right out of high school,

not after they went to college. When asked why he didn't wait for

them to be college educated he replied " Well college teaches

engineering and engineers know that some things are impossible,

my bright high school kids don't know it's impossible, so they go

ahead and do it! "

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

> http://clickhere./click/606

>

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups

From: LuanneP@...

Date sent: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:20:13 EDT

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: pardon?

> In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> wrose2@... writes:

>

> << It is possible to overcome and /or deal

> with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

> >>

>

>

> You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon general and

> publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and have been

> told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE -

> PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet Center and

> notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit from this

> knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals, put up a

> web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

>

> As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can be

> identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

>

> Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape. Maybe you

> should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

>

> Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell me that

> you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

>

> Luanne

Hello Luanne;

The things you're saying remind me of most every AA speaker I've

heard.

If someone gets well, it's because they weren't as bad as you, or

didn't have it as rough. Everything MUST be the black and white

AA way. Unfortunately you're listening to a second PTSD survivor.

Sure I still have some of the subtle effects, the sudden not wanting

to do anything and the flu like symptoms and feeling like my head

is full of cotton. However, I can read a novel at one sitting if it's

interesting. I work in a technical field(Electronics)

Jumping out and calling folks liars won't make your PTSD any

better or probably any worse, but if and I did have full blown

PTSD and are now better, it really doesn't effect our recovery if you

believe we're just nutcases.

Probably some folks get better, others don't because it's

impossible. Let me tell you a story, and I'm told tis true.

Henry Ford hired young men of promise right out of high school,

not after they went to college. When asked why he didn't wait for

them to be college educated he replied " Well college teaches

engineering and engineers know that some things are impossible,

my bright high school kids don't know it's impossible, so they go

ahead and do it! "

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

> http://clickhere./click/606

>

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Didn't Henry also insist that the certain engine that came to be in his

Model T (or the first automobile or whatever) be made and his engineers said

it can't be done and he said I don't care, it can be and they tried over and

over and kept saying it couldn't be done and he continued to say it could be

and finally they accomplished what they said couldn't be done.

Whew, let me catch my breath!

Jan

Re: pardon?

>

>> In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>> wrose2@... writes:

>>

>> << It is possible to overcome and /or deal

>> with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

>> >>

>>

>>

>> You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon general

and

>> publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and have

been

>> told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE -

>> PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet Center

and

>> notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit from

this

>> knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals, put

up a

>> web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

>>

>> As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can be

>> identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

>>

>> Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape. Maybe

you

>> should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

>>

>> Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell me

that

>> you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

>>

>> Luanne

>

>Hello Luanne;

>

>The things you're saying remind me of most every AA speaker I've

>heard.

>

>If someone gets well, it's because they weren't as bad as you, or

>didn't have it as rough. Everything MUST be the black and white

>AA way. Unfortunately you're listening to a second PTSD survivor.

>Sure I still have some of the subtle effects, the sudden not wanting

>to do anything and the flu like symptoms and feeling like my head

>is full of cotton. However, I can read a novel at one sitting if it's

>interesting. I work in a technical field(Electronics)

>

>Jumping out and calling folks liars won't make your PTSD any

>better or probably any worse, but if and I did have full blown

>PTSD and are now better, it really doesn't effect our recovery if you

>believe we're just nutcases.

>

>Probably some folks get better, others don't because it's

>impossible. Let me tell you a story, and I'm told tis true.

>

>Henry Ford hired young men of promise right out of high school,

>not after they went to college. When asked why he didn't wait for

>them to be college educated he replied " Well college teaches

>engineering and engineers know that some things are impossible,

>my bright high school kids don't know it's impossible, so they go

>ahead and do it! "

>

>

>

>

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,

>> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today!

>> http://clickhere./click/606

>>

>>

>> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

>> - Simplifying group communications

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99

>at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

kayleighs@... writes:

> Isn't Britain a constitutional monarchy? Aren't there

> Rules About This Stuff?

Unlike the United States, the British constitution is not a single written

document which enumerates the rights of its citizens. Rather, it is the

accumulation of centuries of common law. So the simple answer to your

question would be no, there are no hard and fast rules about that sort of

thing.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

> I do know that

> there is no known 'cure' as it is a personality disorder caused by trauma.

HI Luanne,

I think you are making the mistake of confusing curability

with treatability. Curable means total relief of symptoms,

whereas treatability merely means some relief is possible.

I note that bnoth you and refer to PTSD as a

personality disorder. The DSM IV dx of PTSD is not a

personality disorder. However, I do think that actual

personality disordes are themselves a kind of PTSD best

referred to as Compound PTSD (CPTSD) to distinguish it from

the more 'regular' variety - the latter may often occur in

adulthood and be one off events (like car crashes,

adult assaults, sexual or otherwise) and produce less

pervasive (if not less severe) symptoms than CPTSD

personality disorders resulting from child abuse,

especially protracted intrafamilial abuse.

Unfortunately, the incurability=untreatability idea has

resulted in ppl with pd's being denied treratment in the UK

- I am one of them. In addition, the UK is on the point of

passing a law that would allow pd sufferers to be

incarcerated as dangerous EVEN IF THEY HAVE COMMITTED NO

CRIME.

If I stop posting suddenly, maybe it will have been passed.

A Concerned Pete

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 7:15:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< Why on earth would pd's >>

Please, what is a pd?

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 7:15:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< Why on earth would pd's >>

Please, what is a pd?

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 7:15:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< Why on earth would pd's >>

Please, what is a pd?

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 7:03:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< 've talked to the VA about my husband and they've said people can

achieve significant relief.

>>

This can be true. Meds, exercise, and therapy all help, but I still have

days where I cannot do a darned thing.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 7:03:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< 've talked to the VA about my husband and they've said people can

achieve significant relief.

>>

This can be true. Meds, exercise, and therapy all help, but I still have

days where I cannot do a darned thing.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/99 7:03:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< 've talked to the VA about my husband and they've said people can

achieve significant relief.

>>

This can be true. Meds, exercise, and therapy all help, but I still have

days where I cannot do a darned thing.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the offer, but I doubt he'll ever be interested. He's had

some really unfortunate experiences with counselors of various kinds,

and doesn't welcome support from anyone outside the family. He also

denies that there's anything wrong, despite his dx.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6387

> In a message dated 7/26/99 8:49:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> kayleighs@... writes:

>

> << Some other time I'll write a post about my husband, though it feels

> kind of like a betrayal to me, but I really am interested in 's

and

> your comments. >>

>

>

> If your hubby is ever interested, I have a support list for those

diagnosed

> with PTSD.

>

> If anyone else is interested, please email me privately and I'll give

you

> instructions on how to join. Funny.....half of that list are in

recovery

> from something too.

>

> Best,

> Luanne

[Guest guest]

I've talked to the VA about my husband and they've said people can

achieve significant relief.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6400

> In a message dated 7/27/99 4:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> wrose2@... writes:

>

> << It is possible to overcome and /or deal

> with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

> >>

>

>

> You overcame PTSD???? You had better call and notify the surgeon

general and

> publicise this feat because I've been living with it for years, and

have been

> told by many, many professionals and have READ that there is NO CURE

-

> PERIOD!!! In fact, you had better make a trip to your local Vet

Center and

> notify everybody there because Vets across the country can benefit

from this

> knowledge that you just provided me with here. Visit Vet Hospitals,

put up a

> web page, LET THIS BE KNOWN WORLDWIDE!!

>

> As far as I have been told and I know PERSONALLY, only triggers can

be

> identified and symptoms minumized with meds and treatment.

>

> Ahhhh, but perhaps you have never been the victim of a gang rape.

Maybe you

> should be so that we can find out THEN if there is a cure for PTSD!!!

>

> Also, tell us more about you 'cure' for alcoholism. You mean to tell

me that

> you can drink like a 'Normie' now too??????

>

> Luanne

[Guest guest]

How on earth can they pass a law like that? In the US it would be

called a " status " crime, for which one cannot be punished. This

principle obviously recognizes that there can't be punishment unless

there is a crime. (It arose from laws that did punish addicts and

alcoholics.)

Why on earth would pd's be singled out? Aside from antisocials, what

is wrong with being histrionic, or narcissistic, except for the

discomfort you cause your colleagues and loved ones? This may be

extreme, but doesn't merit punishment, especially if treatment is not

available. Moreover, the person afflicted probably suffers more than

anyone around him/her.

Who would make the dx? There are lots of extreme differences in dx of

the same person among equally qualified professionals. What would

happen if something was no longer classified as a pd? Sort of -- " Oh,

sorry, yes, we ruined your family and life and career, too bad. You

can go now. " Isn't Britain a constitutional monarchy? Aren't there

Rules About This Stuff?

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6427

>

>

>

> > I do know that

> > there is no known 'cure' as it is a personality disorder caused by

trauma.

>

> HI Luanne,

>

> I think you are making the mistake of confusing curability

> with treatability. Curable means total relief of symptoms,

> whereas treatability merely means some relief is possible.

> I note that bnoth you and refer to PTSD as a

> personality disorder. The DSM IV dx of PTSD is not a

> personality disorder. However, I do think that actual

> personality disordes are themselves a kind of PTSD best

> referred to as Compound PTSD (CPTSD) to distinguish it from

> the more 'regular' variety - the latter may often occur in

> adulthood and be one off events (like car crashes,

> adult assaults, sexual or otherwise) and produce less

> pervasive (if not less severe) symptoms than CPTSD

> personality disorders resulting from child abuse,

> especially protracted intrafamilial abuse.

>

> Unfortunately, the incurability=untreatability idea has

> resulted in ppl with pd's being denied treratment in the UK

> - I am one of them. In addition, the UK is on the point of

> passing a law that would allow pd sufferers to be

> incarcerated as dangerous EVEN IF THEY HAVE COMMITTED NO

> CRIME.

>

> If I stop posting suddenly, maybe it will have been passed.

>

> A Concerned Pete

>

[Guest guest]

Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups

From: saes@...

Date sent: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:28:26 EDT

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Subject: Re: pardon?

> kayleighs@... writes:

>

> > Isn't Britain a constitutional monarchy? Aren't there

> > Rules About This Stuff?

>

> Unlike the United States, the British constitution is not a single written

> document which enumerates the rights of its citizens. Rather, it is the

> accumulation of centuries of common law. So the simple answer to your

> question would be no, there are no hard and fast rules about that sort of

> thing.

>

> Regards,

>

Hi ;

That's the very reason The US, does have a written constitution and

previously The Articles of Confederation, limiting the power of the

Federeal Government and later State Governments.

Some US States, notably Mass, and land do still use The

English Common Law. Most other states like Iowa recognize only

Statutory Law, no common law, which creates a mess in some

Interstate Compacts.

The one exception is with a Jury. A jury still has all its' Common

Law Power, though they are never told this in Jury Instruction.

A jury has the power to nullify the law if they believe it unfairly

applied. By that I mean they have the power to find Not Guilty

when the crime was comitted in front of fifty credible witnesses.

No one has the power to hold a jury accountable for their findings,

probably the only absolute power that exists in The US.

I have almost zero knowlege of actual English Common Law. The

only case I've read was an 1898 House of Commons named In Re

The Matter of Danny McNaughton, which was the basis for US

Insanity Laws, in relation to Criminal Conduct.

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