Re: pardon?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 7:52:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< There will be a DSM V sooner or later,

and perhaps they will say PTSD is treatable. I think it's kind of

funny when they actually determine that a particular disorder no longer

exists. Does that mean a person with that DX is suddenly well? >>

Let me tell you...I have lived with PTSD for the last 17 years of my life.

It is AWFUL and I would rather be in a wheel chair than suffer from this

'thing.'

My therapist has told me that symptoms can be minumized and triggers can be

acknowledged/recognized, but there is no cure. Seems like what is written

above would be from a person who doesn't suffer from PTSD or any other mental

illness/disorder because most folks who know anything about PTSD understand

that there is no 'cure.' I have had people tell me in the past " Oh, you

just need to exercise " or " Oh, you need a vacation " or " Oh, you need a

boyfriend. " That kind of mentality.......I think that nobody can understand

PTSD unless they themselves suffer from it, or live with a fellow sufferer of

this disorder. My alcoholism and drug addiction were symptoms, as were the

five suicide attempts while intoxicated.

BTW, I am on xanax, effexor, trazedone and imitrex (for migraines). I see

therapist either once a week, or once every two weeks.

Luanne

[Guest guest]

Wally,

Well put. I know people that have gotten to that point and just cut back.

My brother is one of them, and my fiance is another-except my fiance doesn't

drink at all anymore because of a medical condition (damaged liver in 'Nam).

I have read your posts Luanne, and I think my PTSD is pretty bad-not like

's, but why try to compare? Each of us has our own perception of any

given situation. If it's painful enough-like I've heard say (and I've

said myself) -I'll do something about it. My personal pain is really hard

to try to gauge against others'-so I just try to deal with it and be strong

and keep going...especially on the days where it really sucks and I feel

really small.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: <12-step-freeegroups>

>Subject: Re: pardon?

>Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:07:02 -0400

>

>Hi Luanne,

>

>Honestly, I just don't see why it should be impossible for people to have

>problems, and then overcome them.

>

>Consider this scenario:

>

>A guy has a beer after work one day, finds that it relaxes him and makes

>him

>feel good. Soon he has a beer after work every day. Time goes on, and he

>gradually ups the amount. At first there are no consequences at all. A few

>years later he is drinking, say, 8 or 14 or whatever beers every night.

>

>One day he " wakes up " and says, " Holy cow, 14 beers a night just ain't

>MODERATE! This has got to stop! "

>

>So he decides then and there to cut back to 2 beers on weeknights,

>reserving

>the option to go out and get blitzed once in a while on a Saturday night.

>

>What would you say? Is this story simply impossible, or did he never have a

>problem in the first place, or what?

>

>Best,

>wally

>

> Re: pardon?

>

>

> >In a message dated 7/26/99 2:46:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> >pachy2@... writes:

> >

> ><< However, if some folks can drink moderately, why shouldn't they if

> > that's their choice. More power to them.

> > >>

> >

> >

> >How about this thought: If they can drink MODERATELY, they never had a

> >problem to start with???

> >

> >Best,

> >Luanne

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req.

>Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99

>at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

wrote:

Also abstinence is all or nothing thinking and I need to be careful that all or nothing, doesn't slip into the rest of my thinking. This requires a balancing act that is not always easy.

I'm relatively new to Smart but, in the 3 months that I've been learning about my dependency on

alcohol,smoke and crack I have been discovering what has been driving me to " use " . I've found that certain beliefs lead me to a point where I could no longer cope with life's realities. At which point, I would feel the need to escape.

I have chosen to moderate my drinking and weed/hash smoking but don't go near the crack pipe.

I rarely smoke....couple tokes since joining Smart. When I am deciding whether or not to drink, I look very closely at why I want to. If I find that if I am feeling stressed, or overwhelmed, or any emotion that challenges my

ability to cope I decide not to drink.

There are times that I notice that I'm not thinking very clearly. During these times I don't make a decision to drink. This approach doesn't leave many opportunities to imbibe, however, I can still have a few when I'm out fishing for example.

I am aware that " all or nothing thinking " is something that I have trouble with. I think moderation is a very complicated avenue to take but it makes life a little nicer for me. Perhaps someday I will not use any " mind altering " drugs. For now though, the occasional drink has much to offer. I have found that I gain valuable insight from this dabbling. Being new to abstainance, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Moderation

works well for me, total abstainance doesn't.

I have been trying to get control of my self for approximately 6-7 yrs. I attended AA / CA / NA as well as three short rehab programs and one intensive 5 month non 12step program. I have too much trouble negotiating " all or nothing thinking " in one part of my life and not in the rest. The XA all or nothing approach

didn't work for me.

Allan

[Guest guest]

Hi Luanne;

AA taught us that moderation management was impossible

because we had the disease alcoholism. They told us all attempts

at this had failed, they lied.

My story is different than most on the group as I never attained any

length of sobriety in AA, though I tried for 30 years. I have a

condition called PTSD, a personality disorder, caused by trauma. I

told folks in AA I was drinking to stop the pain, they told me that

was a bullshit excuse. I bought into their thinking and stayed

drunk for most of thirty years. I did not however know the cause of

the pain, only that it was extreme and alcohol would stop it. In

1990, I learned what was wrong, this PTSD, I haven't drank since.

It will be 9 years in October. Oh after a few months of therapy, the

pfysical pain from the PTSD, left and has not returned. The same

was true of the urge to drink until at about 16 months sober I went

back to AA. I only stayed 8 months, but nearly all the bad old crap

returned. My attitudes went to hell, the urge to drink came back, it

was a total disaster.

A short time after I got out of AA for the last time, the urge to drink

left and has never came back.

I agree with a couple of things from AA. First, honesty makes life

easier because I don't bring unnecessary stress down on myself if I

remain honest. That same honesty requires I look at my opinions

and beliefs to see if the are valid and go along with the way I live.

Putting sobriety as my number one priority at this point in my life is

no longer valid and hasn't been for some time now. I'm a lifer when

it comes to sobriety and it now is a habit, one that would require a

conscous effort on my part to break. I would have to get in the car

and go get it, or to a bar. Neither of those is likely. It is no longer

necessary for me to put effort into not drinking. So other things get

the front burners now.

For the first year I worked a week at a time, by two years it had

stretched to a month. Now I don't think much about it other than

how many years it has been.

I do however believe that the risk of my taking a drink, far

outweighs any possible reward. I am an extremist in that regard

and don't ask others to join me in that belief. I'm reasonably

comfortable in my rut so to speak. I won't take a risk unless the

payoff is greater than the risk. If I buy 5 lotto tickets, I will probably

lose five dollars, but the possibility of winning millions is also there.

The possibility of turning my life upside down, is too great a risk for

me, compared to the glow from a drink or two. Others see things

from another viewpoint.

Actually in our society, moderation is more acceptable than my

extremism. I do work in keeping that all or nothing viewpoint

confined to my use of alcohol and not let it manage my thoughts

on other subjects or other people.

[Guest guest]

Hi Luanne;

Hear you loud and clear on the lack of concentration. I still forget

where I put things and go absolutely bonkers trying to find them.

The concentration and attention span got better by leaps and

bounds for me. I can now read tech books etc and comprehend

fully what it's all about. My therapy has been finished formally for

nearly seven years now.

Keep at it and the prescriptions that help and hang around, we

won't always piss you off.

PTSD IS treatable

[Guest guest]

Hi Luanne;

Hear you loud and clear on the lack of concentration. I still forget

where I put things and go absolutely bonkers trying to find them.

The concentration and attention span got better by leaps and

bounds for me. I can now read tech books etc and comprehend

fully what it's all about. My therapy has been finished formally for

nearly seven years now.

Keep at it and the prescriptions that help and hang around, we

won't always piss you off.

PTSD IS treatable

[Guest guest]

Hi Luanne;

Hear you loud and clear on the lack of concentration. I still forget

where I put things and go absolutely bonkers trying to find them.

The concentration and attention span got better by leaps and

bounds for me. I can now read tech books etc and comprehend

fully what it's all about. My therapy has been finished formally for

nearly seven years now.

Keep at it and the prescriptions that help and hang around, we

won't always piss you off.

PTSD IS treatable

[Guest guest]

DSM IV is not the Bible. The characteristics of various disorders are

determined by committee, and the info regarding treatment and cures is

always bound to be out-of-date. There will be a DSM V sooner or later,

and perhaps they will say PTSD is treatable. I think it's kind of

funny when they actually determine that a particular disorder no longer

exists. Does that mean a person with that DX is suddenly well?

May I ask you, and Luanne, what kind of psychotherapy your

treatment consist(s)(ed) of, and Luanne, what meds you are taking?

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6340

> In a message dated 7/26/99 6:30:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> pachy2@... writes:

>

> << PTSD IS treatable >>

>

>

> I seem to be getting worse than better. Perhaps because mine went

untreated

> for so long. Therapist says mine is severe and according to DSM IV,

there is

> no cure.

>

> Best,

> Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 11:13:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

wgt@... writes:

<< Honestly, I just don't see why it should be impossible for people to have

problems, and then overcome them.

>>

Wait a minute....are we talking about overcoming PTSD or alcoholism? I

OVERCAME alcoholism - I don't drink anymore - PERIOD.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 11:35:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

wrose2@... writes:

<< My personal pain is really hard

to try to gauge against others'-so I just try to deal with it and be strong

and keep going...especially on the days where it really sucks and I feel

really small. >>

I think that anybody who suffers from PTSD, anxiety, panic, depression, or

any other mental illness is in a LOT of pain and it sucks. There really is

no comparison. I have my hands full just taking care of LUANNE let alone

anybody else.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 1:26:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

wgt@... writes:

<< Incidentally I quit drinking too, period, about six years ago. Even then I

thought that I *probably* could drink moderately, if I really worked at it,

but that the possible consequences of failing were too serious for me to

take the risk. As for what anybody else can do, or chooses to do, that is

their business. >>

Whew....thought I joined the wrong list for a minute!! <g> I feel exactly as

you do Wally, the possible consequences of failing, not to mention, I cannot

tell you the times I woke up in a hospital after a blackout...the list goes

on and on. That is why I don't even want to consider 'moderatation

drinking.'

For those who can do it, or have the guts to try it - my hat goes off to ya!!

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 2:46:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<<

I know it's not a day at the beach, Luanne, and I am sorry I came off

as apparently dismissing your suffering. I certainly did not mean to,

because I see what my husband goes through. >>

Oh, I didn't understand that your husband was a fellow sufferer!! I am sure

that you see first hand what he goes through. Some days are better than

others, that's for sure! I think between my meds, my therapy, and my gym

time helps me the very most. In fact, I am heading for the gym right now.

Lots of anxiety, and I know that the gym will kill that off. Funny....years

ago, I would drink a 12-pack of Lite to kill of the old anxiety! <g>

Best to you and your husband,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

Hi Luanne,

Honestly, I just don't see why it should be impossible for people to have

problems, and then overcome them.

Consider this scenario:

A guy has a beer after work one day, finds that it relaxes him and makes him

feel good. Soon he has a beer after work every day. Time goes on, and he

gradually ups the amount. At first there are no consequences at all. A few

years later he is drinking, say, 8 or 14 or whatever beers every night.

One day he " wakes up " and says, " Holy cow, 14 beers a night just ain't

MODERATE! This has got to stop! "

So he decides then and there to cut back to 2 beers on weeknights, reserving

the option to go out and get blitzed once in a while on a Saturday night.

What would you say? Is this story simply impossible, or did he never have a

problem in the first place, or what?

Best,

wally

Re: pardon?

>In a message dated 7/26/99 2:46:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>pachy2@... writes:

>

><< However, if some folks can drink moderately, why shouldn't they if

> that's their choice. More power to them.

> >>

>

>

>How about this thought: If they can drink MODERATELY, they never had a

>problem to start with???

>

>Best,

>Luanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 3:55:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dlhunt@...

writes:

<< Luanne, my misguided friend, THAT is black and white thinking.

Peace, >>

Okay....I see what you are saying, but black/white, blue/green - I don't want

to try moderation. I am too scared. Ended up in hospital wards too times

before and don't want to risk it again.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

Re: pardon?

>In a message dated 7/26/99 11:13:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>wgt@... writes:

>

><< Honestly, I just don't see why it should be impossible for people to

have

> problems, and then overcome them.

> >>

>

>

>Wait a minute....are we talking about overcoming PTSD or alcoholism? I

>OVERCAME alcoholism - I don't drink anymore - PERIOD.

>

>Best,

>Luanne

>

Hi Luanne,

We were talking about your statement:

>How about this thought: If they can drink MODERATELY, they never had a

>problem to start with???

I quoted it in my post.

Incidentally I quit drinking too, period, about six years ago. Even then I

thought that I *probably* could drink moderately, if I really worked at it,

but that the possible consequences of failing were too serious for me to

take the risk. As for what anybody else can do, or chooses to do, that is

their business.

Best regards,

wally

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your answer. I am not trying to be flippant. I really

think that psychology progresses all the time, so that things that were

thought to be uncurable are now able to be helped.

The reason I asked, and I should have said so earlier, is that my

husband has some symptoms of PTSD, and a psychiatrist has verified that

he has a mild form. I am not sure she was right, I think it may be

more severe than she thought. But I am interested in what has helped

people, so that if he is ever receptive to the idea, I can suggest some

alternatives for him.

I know it's not a day at the beach, Luanne, and I am sorry I came off

as apparently dismissing your suffering. I certainly did not mean to,

because I see what my husband goes through. I think you are better off

than he is because you are seeking help, and he has apparently decided

that there is no help for how he feels.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6345

> In a message dated 7/26/99 7:52:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> kayleighs@... writes:

>

> << There will be a DSM V sooner or later,

> and perhaps they will say PTSD is treatable. I think it's kind of

> funny when they actually determine that a particular disorder no

longer

> exists. Does that mean a person with that DX is suddenly well? >>

>

>

> Let me tell you...I have lived with PTSD for the last 17 years of my

life.

> It is AWFUL and I would rather be in a wheel chair than suffer from

this

> 'thing.'

>

> My therapist has told me that symptoms can be minumized and triggers

can be

> acknowledged/recognized, but there is no cure. Seems like what is

written

> above would be from a person who doesn't suffer from PTSD or any

other mental

> illness/disorder because most folks who know anything about PTSD

understand

> that there is no 'cure.' I have had people tell me in the past " Oh,

you

> just need to exercise " or " Oh, you need a vacation " or " Oh, you need

a

> boyfriend. " That kind of mentality.......I think that nobody can

understand

> PTSD unless they themselves suffer from it, or live with a fellow

sufferer of

> this disorder. My alcoholism and drug addiction were symptoms, as

were the

> five suicide attempts while intoxicated.

>

> BTW, I am on xanax, effexor, trazedone and imitrex (for migraines).

I see

> therapist either once a week, or once every two weeks.

>

> Luanne

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I found your post very hopeful. I think that I said before that it

really hepls to hear 12 step free success stories to counter years of AA

programming. Yours is certainly one of them.

Thanks,

sean

[Guest guest]

LuanneP@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 7/26/99 2:46:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> pachy2@... writes:

>

> << However, if some folks can drink moderately, why shouldn't they if

> that's their choice. More power to them.

> >>

>

> How about this thought: If they can drink MODERATELY, they never had a

> problem to start with???

>

> Best,

> Luanne

>

Luanne, my misguided friend, THAT is black and white thinking.

Peace,

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Was the salesman clueless?

> Productopia has the answers.

> http://clickhere./click/555

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 8:49:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kayleighs@... writes:

<< Some other time I'll write a post about my husband, though it feels

kind of like a betrayal to me, but I really am interested in 's and

your comments. >>

If your hubby is ever interested, I have a support list for those diagnosed

with PTSD.

If anyone else is interested, please email me privately and I'll give you

instructions on how to join. Funny.....half of that list are in recovery

from something too.

Best,

Luanne

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your good wishes, Luanne, and same to you.

Please realize no one on this group wants you to drink. We all only

want to see everyone who subscribes be able to exercise choice. That

just means getting over the AA conditioning. It doesn't mean drinking.

Some other time I'll write a post about my husband, though it feels

kind of like a betrayal to me, but I really am interested in 's and

your comments.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6362

> In a message dated 7/26/99 2:46:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> kayleighs@... writes:

>

> <<

> I know it's not a day at the beach, Luanne, and I am sorry I came off

> as apparently dismissing your suffering. I certainly did not mean

to,

> because I see what my husband goes through. >>

>

>

> Oh, I didn't understand that your husband was a fellow sufferer!! I

am sure

> that you see first hand what he goes through. Some days are better

than

> others, that's for sure! I think between my meds, my therapy, and my

gym

> time helps me the very most. In fact, I am heading for the gym right

now.

> Lots of anxiety, and I know that the gym will kill that off.

Funny....years

> ago, I would drink a 12-pack of Lite to kill of the old

anxiety! <g>

>

> Best to you and your husband,

> Luanne

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your good wishes, Luanne, and same to you.

Please realize no one on this group wants you to drink. We all only

want to see everyone who subscribes be able to exercise choice. That

just means getting over the AA conditioning. It doesn't mean drinking.

Some other time I'll write a post about my husband, though it feels

kind of like a betrayal to me, but I really am interested in 's and

your comments.

wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=6362

> In a message dated 7/26/99 2:46:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> kayleighs@... writes:

>

> <<

> I know it's not a day at the beach, Luanne, and I am sorry I came off

> as apparently dismissing your suffering. I certainly did not mean

to,

> because I see what my husband goes through. >>

>

>

> Oh, I didn't understand that your husband was a fellow sufferer!! I

am sure

> that you see first hand what he goes through. Some days are better

than

> others, that's for sure! I think between my meds, my therapy, and my

gym

> time helps me the very most. In fact, I am heading for the gym right

now.

> Lots of anxiety, and I know that the gym will kill that off.

Funny....years

> ago, I would drink a 12-pack of Lite to kill of the old

anxiety! <g>

>

> Best to you and your husband,

> Luanne

[Guest guest]

Luanne,

Wally's reference is plural, yes. It is possible to overcome and /or deal

with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

>From: LuanneP@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: pardon?

>Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:22:38 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/26/99 11:13:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>wgt@... writes:

>

><< Honestly, I just don't see why it should be impossible for people to

>have

> problems, and then overcome them.

> >>

>

>

>Wait a minute....are we talking about overcoming PTSD or alcoholism? I

>OVERCAME alcoholism - I don't drink anymore - PERIOD.

>

>Best,

>Luanne

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

>http://clickhere./click/552

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

_______________________________________________________________

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Luanne,

Wally's reference is plural, yes. It is possible to overcome and /or deal

with several problems-even PTSD AND ALCOHOLISM AND ANOREXIA-I have.

>From: LuanneP@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: pardon?

>Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:22:38 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/26/99 11:13:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>wgt@... writes:

>

><< Honestly, I just don't see why it should be impossible for people to

>have

> problems, and then overcome them.

> >>

>

>

>Wait a minute....are we talking about overcoming PTSD or alcoholism? I

>OVERCAME alcoholism - I don't drink anymore - PERIOD.

>

>Best,

>Luanne

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

>http://clickhere./click/552

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

_______________________________________________________________

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Luanne:

I got rid of a lot of my " side effects " of PTSD by facing my perpetrator in

a court of law. I am not nearly so afraid of the dark-the panic attacks are

negligible. Sometimes the depression is very heavy to me, but I put one

foot in front of the other and continue with whatever I can do to get

through. I was molested when I was three and I am 44 now. It is very

difficult to deal with the though process and that's what I'm working on. I

still have anxiety, but for the most part, I can live with it and with

therapy-it comes even easier.

So in the last 18 years for me, I have gotten the anorexia very comfortably

in hand, quit drinking in '82, quit smoking over 3 years ago and dealt with

the demons of my childhood-which was stolen from me. Plus a lot of other

incidental things. I'm an ongoing project!

It isn't right or fair what happened-but if you can LIVE with it-it makes

you stronger then average, right? I like to think that.

Hang in there!

>From: LuanneP@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: pardon?

>Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:24:27 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/26/99 11:35:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>wrose2@... writes:

>

><< My personal pain is really hard

> to try to gauge against others'-so I just try to deal with it and be

>strong

> and keep going...especially on the days where it really sucks and I feel

> really small. >>

>

>

>I think that anybody who suffers from PTSD, anxiety, panic, depression, or

>any other mental illness is in a LOT of pain and it sucks. There really is

>no comparison. I have my hands full just taking care of LUANNE let alone

>anybody else.

>

>Best,

>Luanne

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req.

>Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99

>at checkout. http://clickhere./click/463

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

_______________________________________________________________

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Luanne:

I got rid of a lot of my " side effects " of PTSD by facing my perpetrator in

a court of law. I am not nearly so afraid of the dark-the panic attacks are

negligible. Sometimes the depression is very heavy to me, but I put one

foot in front of the other and continue with whatever I can do to get

through. I was molested when I was three and I am 44 now. It is very

difficult to deal with the though process and that's what I'm working on. I

still have anxiety, but for the most part, I can live with it and with

therapy-it comes even easier.

So in the last 18 years for me, I have gotten the anorexia very comfortably

in hand, quit drinking in '82, quit smoking over 3 years ago and dealt with

the demons of my childhood-which was stolen from me. Plus a lot of other

incidental things. I'm an ongoing project!

It isn't right or fair what happened-but if you can LIVE with it-it makes

you stronger then average, right? I like to think that.

Hang in there!

>From: LuanneP@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: pardon?

>Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:24:27 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/26/99 11:35:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>wrose2@... writes:

>

><< My personal pain is really hard

> to try to gauge against others'-so I just try to deal with it and be

>strong

> and keep going...especially on the days where it really sucks and I feel

> really small. >>

>

>

>I think that anybody who suffers from PTSD, anxiety, panic, depression, or

>any other mental illness is in a LOT of pain and it sucks. There really is

>no comparison. I have my hands full just taking care of LUANNE let alone

>anybody else.

>

>Best,

>Luanne

>

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