Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Ken, The heart does not actually " skip. " However, it does feel like it. What you are feeling is an ectopic beat (premature contraction). It will either originate in the atria or ventricles thus: PAC=Premature Atrial Contraction and PVC=Premature Ventricular Contraction. Many people refer to these as " skipped beats. " Cardiologist: He or she deals with the aspects of the heart minus the electrical system. An EP (Electrophysiologist) specializes in the electrical system of the heart. Dwight isell_discoverytoys wrote:I have been lurking for a while and often hear about ectopic beats. When you get that feeling of something not being right for a moment are we talking about skipped beats or extra beats. Or are the two uniquely different. Second Q.. in the U.S. what is the difference betweem an EP and Cardio. Thanks, Ken Dwight Broeman dbroeman@... --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 thanks for the response.. Where would you find an EP.. Would they be listed under physicians.. Are the actually MD's? Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats Ken, The heart does not actually " skip. " However, it does feel like it. What you are feeling is an ectopic beat (premature contraction). It will either originate in the atria or ventricles thus: PAC=Premature Atrial Contraction and PVC=Premature Ventricular Contraction. Many people refer to these as " skipped beats. " Cardiologist: He or she deals with the aspects of the heart minus the electrical system. An EP (Electrophysiologist) specializes in the electrical system of the heart. Dwight isell_discoverytoys wrote:I have been lurking for a while and often hear about ectopic beats. When you get that feeling of something not being right for a moment are we talking about skipped beats or extra beats. Or are the two uniquely different. Second Q.. in the U.S. what is the difference betweem an EP and Cardio. Thanks, Ken Dwight Broeman dbroeman@... --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 on Thu, 18 Jul 2002 at 23:13:23, ken schwartz wrote : >Where would you find an EP.. Go to http://www.naspe.org and find their " Find an EP " link - not just the USA. Best of health to all, Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Hi Vicky, How are you keeping!!! I hope all has settled down now. On Naspe I cjould not find out French Friends john > Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats > > on Thu, 18 Jul 2002 at 23:13:23, ken schwartz > wrote : > >Where would you find an EP.. > > Go to http://www.naspe.org and find their " Find an EP " link - not just > the USA. > > Best of health to all, > Vicky > > > Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport > FAQ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm > For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af > Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, > send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help > > Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 on Fri, 19 Jul 2002 at 09:51:00, Codling, wrote : >Hi Vicky, > >How are you keeping!!! Not bad, - without wanting to tempt fate, I think the ectopics are settling. Fingers crossed and " hurry up and wait " (as usual!). Still on the Flecainide - it looks to me like the advice you had to come off the pills slowly over several months is very sensible perhaps especially if you have had a bad time before an ablation. (by then I was in AF 24/24 if off drugs, ~12/24 if on Dofetilide). Another week or two should see if a pattern is developing. Best of health to all, Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 > I have been lurking for a while and often hear about ectopic beats. > When you get that feeling of something not being right for a moment > are we talking about skipped beats or extra beats. Or are the two > uniquely different. Hi, Ken, I've had 30 day monitors a couple of times, the type that when you notice something you push a button and it saves a recording of the previous 30 seconds and the next thirty seconds, and then you play it over the phone to an 800 number. It is actually saving an EKG, and you hear it play back. So you get pretty expert on listening to what it sounds like, whether there are pauses or beat beat beat-beat-beat beat etc. When I found when I get that not quite right feeling is that it could turn out to be a variety of things - one extra beat or a few extra beats, various little artifacts. Nothing on my recordings ever turned out to be worrying to my cardiologist, except once I went into PVCs for 2-3 days instead of the more usual mostly PACs with a few PVCs thrown in. She had me take a stress echo test after that to check for artery blockages, of which there are none, so she said " no sweat. " I was expecting that since I had been taking a med, Cipro, which can cause PVCs as a side effect. When you have an extra beat and are feeling your pulse, you will feel it as a pause. That's because the extra beat is so close to the previous normal beat that you can't tell then from one beat. Then there is a pause until the next normal beat. So what should be beat..beat..beat is really beatbeat....beat but feels like beat........beat Don't take that spacing too literally, I'm just trying to get the idea across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 All There is an excellent book by Camm and Waktarie called Atrial Fibrillation. In this book I am a liitle bit famious as it my ECG that they used. My only claim to fame. There is a secion that in a lot of cases Ectopics precede the onset of AF. One in AF and Quote AF behest AF in other words when you get inot this cycle your heart will not normally come out of this unles interuppted by a Cadioversion or a Drug. This is why when you have a Cadioversion it may work for a while then along come an ectopic and bang your in AF again. What causes or trigger the ectopis is a whole new ball game but the Work that is being done in France is to stop these Ectopics thus stoppin gAF. I hope this all make sense. C I > Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats > > > > I have been lurking for a while and often hear about ectopic beats. > > When you get that feeling of something not being right for a moment > > are we talking about skipped beats or extra beats. Or are the two > > uniquely different. > > > Hi, Ken, > > I've had 30 day monitors a couple of times, the type that when you > notice something you push a button and it saves a recording of the > previous 30 seconds and the next thirty seconds, and then you play it > over the phone to an 800 number. It is actually saving an EKG, and > you hear it play back. > > So you get pretty expert on listening to what it sounds like, whether > there are pauses or beat beat beat-beat-beat beat etc. > > When I found when I get that not quite right feeling is that it could > turn out to be a variety of things - one extra beat or a few extra > beats, various little artifacts. > > Nothing on my recordings ever turned out to be worrying to my > cardiologist, except once I went into PVCs for 2-3 days instead of > the more usual mostly PACs with a few PVCs thrown in. She had me > take a stress echo test after that to check for artery blockages, of > which there are none, so she said " no sweat. " I was expecting that > since I had been taking a med, Cipro, which can cause PVCs as a side > effect. > > When you have an extra beat and are feeling your pulse, you will feel > it as a pause. That's because the extra beat is so close to the > previous normal beat that you can't tell then from one beat. Then > there is a pause until the next normal beat. So what should be > beat..beat..beat is really > beatbeat....beat > but feels like > beat........beat > > Don't take that spacing too literally, I'm just trying to get the > idea across. > > > > > > > > Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport > FAQ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm > For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af > Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, > send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help > > Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Ken, Most good cardiology groups have an EP on staff. Do some research. Look at the major hospitals in your area. I can help you if you are in the Los Angeless area. Yes, the are M.D.'s. The are cardiologists that specialize in the electrical system. Dwight ken schwartz wrote:thanks for the response.. Where would you find an EP.. Would they be listed under physicians.. Are the actually MD's? Dwight Broeman dbroeman@... --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Vicky, My EP served as President of this society. This is a good site. Thanks. Dwight Vicky wrote:on Thu, 18 Jul 2002 at 23:13:23, ken schwartz wrote : >Where would you find an EP.. Go to http://www.naspe.org and find their " Find an EP " link - not just the USA. Best of health to all, Vicky Dwight Broeman dbroeman@... --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats > > Ken, > The heart does not actually " skip. " However, it does feel like it. What you are feeling is an ectopic beat (premature contraction). It will either originate in the atria or ventricles thus: PAC=Premature Atrial Contraction and PVC=Premature Ventricular Contraction. Many people refer to these as " skipped beats. " So what is the technical term for extra beats? I get missed beats which must be ectopics, as you can't feel them in the pulse, but I also get extra beats which you can feel in the pulse. Sometimes they have a regular rhythm like three together then a long pause, then three together and a long pause. Thanks Fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Fran wrote <<So what is the technical term for extra beats?>> ectopics I think it's a very general term - ectopic means 'out of place' and I think, as far as the heart is concerned, this can mean location or time. << I get missed beats which must be ectopics, as you can't feel them in the pulse,>> Many people get long pauses between beats (or missed beats) and to add the confusion these can sometimes occur because of an ectopic beat firing the heart early and sometimes just happen because the SA node forgot to fire. (and it gets worse because in some folks the top bit fires but you don't feel a pulse because the bottom bit doesn't fire due to some form of AV block) << but I also get extra beats, which you can feel in the pulse. Sometimes they have a regular rhythm like three together then a long pause, then three together and a long pause.>> All of my AFs start with a run of ectopics and they involve long pauses. Figuring out whether a long pause comes first or an ectopic comes first, I believe, is very important in deciding the best course of action. In my case it is still not clear and without wearing a holter monitor for a several months I think it will remain a mystery. -- D (33, Leeds, UK) Paroxysmal AF for 24 hours every 16 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats > All of my AFs start with a run of ectopics and they involve long pauses. > Figuring out whether a long pause comes first or an ectopic comes first, I > believe, is very important in deciding the best course of action. In my case > it is still not clear and without wearing a holter monitor for a several > months I think it will remain a mystery. > > > -- > D (33, Leeds, UK) > Paroxysmal AF for 24 hours every 16 days Thanks for your response. The funny thing is that these extra beats and ectopics are no longer preceeding a run of AF as I have been so clear for a long time. They just are, and are very annoying. Mostly because I can't understand why. I've lived for so long now with a funny heart beat that I should just learn to ignore it. But as I have got shot of the AF, I want to get shot of these too. Maybe this is where pulmonary ablation would come in. Does anyone know the reason why this works, or at least the theory behind it? I couldn't do anything without understanding the implications fully. Fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 <<Maybe this is where pulmonary ablation would come in. Does anyone know the reason why this works, or at least the theory behind it? I couldn't do anything without understanding the implications fully.>> In many people the ectopic beats originate in the pulmonary veins - hence the ablation there. I don't know enough about it to say after an ablation whether they still happen and propagation is prevented because of the scar or whether the rogue cells are also ablated? As to the reason why they happen there, it's still anybodies guess. They're a long way from the SA node and on a peculiar boundary where cardiac cells turn into vein walls - both of these things probably contribute - but this is just my guess rather than anything I've read. -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 > The funny thing is that these extra beats and > ectopics are no longer preceeding a run of AF as I have been so clear for a > long time. They just are, and are very annoying. Mostly because I can't > understand why. I've lived for so long now with a funny heart beat that I > should just learn to ignore it. But as I have got shot of the AF, I want to > get shot of these too. > > Maybe this is where pulmonary ablation would come in. Does anyone know the > reason why this works, or at least the theory behind it? Fran, this is something I've thought about also, as mostly I have multiple ectopics a minute vs. afib. In theory, a pulmonary ablation should fix this by isolating the pulmonary veins which are usually where the foci are that start the ectopics which in turn can lead to afib. I asked my cardio about this and she agrees that it should work. However, I'm not pursuing this for awhile as I still have hopes that losing weight, on which I am making no progress, may improve things, since one thing that sets ectopics off for me is carrying heavy stuff. Also, waiting gives the ep folk a chance to continue to improve the operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Fran, They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. Dwight Frances Ross wrote: Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats > > Ken, > The heart does not actually " skip. " However, it does feel like it. What you are feeling is an ectopic beat (premature contraction). It will either originate in the atria or ventricles thus: PAC=Premature Atrial Contraction and PVC=Premature Ventricular Contraction. Many people refer to these as " skipped beats. " So what is the technical term for extra beats? I get missed beats which must be ectopics, as you can't feel them in the pulse, but I also get extra beats which you can feel in the pulse. Sometimes they have a regular rhythm like three together then a long pause, then three together and a long pause. Thanks Fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 > > Fran, > They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. > Dwight I would hope that all the testing in the past would have seen if they were from the ventricles. But as i have had periods when I have conked out and convulsed with near death experiences in the dead of night, it does remain a worry with me. I was waiting to see the cardio again who was going to look at recent holter recordings, but that was cancelled in June as I still have not had the monitor. Hmph. NHS. But it may also be due to the fact they are sending me to Glasgow to see a neurologist who has facilities to do tests on the ANS. I have had to postpone that as I got a letter yesterday saying to be there on the 29th July, which just can't be done due to school holidays, kids etc. So they are sending me one for later the next month. Thanks. Fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 Yes the thought of pulmonary ablation is quite frightening. You just don't know if it will work, will go wrong, will leave you with another problem or just cure it. If only there was something solid to base the reason on why it can work. It is not something I will ever do lightly. But I will keep abreast of what is going on. Good luck with loosing weight. Weight is definately not a factor with me now, although my AF did get much worse for a while when I was pregnant (10 years ago) and ballooned up to 13 stone. Take care Fran Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats > > Fran, this is something I've thought about also, as mostly I have > multiple ectopics a minute vs. afib. In theory, a pulmonary ablation > should fix this by isolating the pulmonary veins which are usually > where the foci are that start the ectopics which in turn can lead to > afib. > > I asked my cardio about this and she agrees that it should work. > However, I'm not pursuing this for awhile as I still have hopes that > losing weight, on which I am making no progress, may improve things, > since one thing that sets ectopics off for me is carrying heavy stuff. > > Also, waiting gives the ep folk a chance to continue to improve the > operation. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 Cheers That gives me some info to search further on. FRan Re: Extra Beats or are they Skipped Beats > <<Maybe this is where pulmonary ablation would come in. Does anyone know the > reason why this works, or at least the theory behind it? I couldn't do > anything without understanding the implications fully.>> > > In many people the ectopic beats originate in the pulmonary veins - hence > the ablation there. > > I don't know enough about it to say after an ablation whether they still > happen > and propagation is prevented because of the scar or whether the rogue cells > are > also ablated? > > As to the reason why they happen there, it's still anybodies guess. > They're a long way from the SA node and on a peculiar boundary where cardiac > cells turn into vein walls - both of these things probably contribute - but > this is just my guess rather than anything I've read. > > -- > D > > > > > Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport > FAQ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm > For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af > Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, > send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help > > Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 > > Fran, > They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. > Dwight Dwight and Fran, My cardio does not get too worked up about short runs of PVCs - when on a monitor I have caught several episodes a day of 3 to 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 > > Fran, > They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. > Dwight Dwight and Fran, My cardio does not get too worked up about short runs of PVCs - when on a monitor I have caught several episodes a day of 3 to 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 > > Fran, > They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. > Dwight Dwight and Fran, My cardio does not get too worked up about short runs of PVCs - when on a monitor I have caught several episodes a day of 3 to 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 > > As to the reason why they happen there, it's still anybodies guess. > > They're a long way from the SA node and on a peculiar boundary where > cardiac > > cells turn into vein walls - both of these things probably contribute - > but > > this is just my guess rather than anything I've read. I dimly recall reading recently that the type of heart cells that produce electrical impulses associated with beating can extend somewhat into the pulmonary veins. As I recall, breaks in that type of tissue are thought to cause errant signals that can trigger extra beats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 Trudy, A run of 3 or more PVC's is considered V-Tach. This is o.k. in a healthy heart. Or, it is o.k. if your doctor feels that it is o.k. In an unhealthy heart, doctors might become more concerned. What none of us want is sustained V-Tach. Let's stick with the tachycardias originating in the atria! I had 5 beats of PVC's (V-Tach) after a treadmill. Due to my MVP, they did an EP study on me to assess my risk. They were not able to induce the arrhythmia therefore no ICD. Dwight trudyjhagain wrote: > > Fran, > They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. > Dwight Dwight and Fran, My cardio does not get too worked up about short runs of PVCs - when on a monitor I have caught several episodes a day of 3 to 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 Fran, In my opinion, if you are on the verge of passing out and having near death experiences, you should be treated more aggressively. An EP study may be in order depending on the origination of these arrhythmias. Dwight Frances Ross wrote: > > Fran, > They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. > Dwight I would hope that all the testing in the past would have seen if they were from the ventricles. But as i have had periods when I have conked out and convulsed with near death experiences in the dead of night, it does remain a worry with me. I was waiting to see the cardio again who was going to look at recent holter recordings, but that was cancelled in June as I still have not had the monitor. Hmph. NHS. But it may also be due to the fact they are sending me to Glasgow to see a neurologist who has facilities to do tests on the ANS. I have had to postpone that as I got a letter yesterday saying to be there on the 29th July, which just can't be done due to school holidays, kids etc. So they are sending me one for later the next month. Thanks. Fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 Fran, In my opinion, if you are on the verge of passing out and having near death experiences, you should be treated more aggressively. An EP study may be in order depending on the origination of these arrhythmias. Dwight Frances Ross wrote: > > Fran, > They are either originating from the ventricles or the atria. They would be PVC's, or PAC's respectively. If they are coming in runs, then you are talking about tachycardia. You want to make sure that these runs are not originating from the ventricles. Atrial tachycardia can be atrial flutter, SVT etc. > Dwight I would hope that all the testing in the past would have seen if they were from the ventricles. But as i have had periods when I have conked out and convulsed with near death experiences in the dead of night, it does remain a worry with me. I was waiting to see the cardio again who was going to look at recent holter recordings, but that was cancelled in June as I still have not had the monitor. Hmph. NHS. But it may also be due to the fact they are sending me to Glasgow to see a neurologist who has facilities to do tests on the ANS. I have had to postpone that as I got a letter yesterday saying to be there on the 29th July, which just can't be done due to school holidays, kids etc. So they are sending me one for later the next month. Thanks. Fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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