Re: Autism Boards

[Guest guest]

First

off

I am not a loose cannon. I dont know why you say that.

I am a respected businessman. My software is innovative. I deal with facts

all the time. I am only going by what is the norm.

Joe Mele

>

>

> >

> > Well

> >

> > I am sure the NTs are paid.

>

> WRONG. The only paid people are hired staff. For example, nobody

> on the ASA national board is paid except the executive director, Lee

> Grossman. That is a fact, Joe but that is the difference we have. I

> deal with facts. You are a loose cannon and that is also a FACT.

>

>

> >

> > If this is true then autism boards are the exception.

>

> They are an exception.

>

> >

> > But you cannot deny that being a member of board implies support

> for an

> > organization.

> >

> I never did but it doesn't mean 100% support of everything the

> organization does either.

>

> Jerry Newport

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Joe Mele wrote:

> First

> off

> I am not a loose cannon. I dont know why you say that.

It's just a well-known phrase that everyone understands.

Image-wise, it makes more sense than " loose pea-shooter " .

;-)

>

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Well

> > >

> > > I am sure the NTs are paid.

> >

> > WRONG. The only paid people are hired staff. For example, nobody

> > on the ASA national board is paid except the executive director, Lee

> > Grossman. That is a fact, Joe but that is the difference we have. I

> > deal with facts. You are a loose cannon and that is also a FACT.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > If this is true then autism boards are the exception.

> >

> > They are an exception.

> >

> > >

> > > But you cannot deny that being a member of board implies support

> > for an

> > > organization.

> > >

> > I never did but it doesn't mean 100% support of everything the

> > organization does either.

> >

> > Jerry Newport

[Guest guest]

>

> First

> off

>

> I am not a loose cannon. I dont know why you say that.

>

> I am a respected businessman. My software is innovative. I deal

with facts

> all the time. I am only going by what is the norm.

>

> Joe Mele

>

Joe,

I say that because it fits. You are in such a hurry to trash my

friend, Steve Shore, that you assume you know stuff you don't. If you

had bothered to talk to anyone who is actually on the board of ASA,

CAN, GRASP etc, you would have not said what you did.

That is how loose cannons operate. They are so hot to shoot off

that they fire away at targets they don't even know exist for sure.

Jerry Newport

[Guest guest]

First off

Unlocking autism is so bad anyone who associates themselves with it should

be ashamed of themselves.

I have my facts right about unlocking autism and GRASP and CAN. In fact I

have spoken with someone on a board. I just cant say who.

I met stephen shore. he is a nice guy. But this about preventing a cure and

he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy.He needs to resign from

unlocking autism.

Joe

>

>

> >

> > First

> > off

> >

> > I am not a loose cannon. I dont know why you say that.

> >

> > I am a respected businessman. My software is innovative. I deal

> with facts

> > all the time. I am only going by what is the norm.

> >

> > Joe Mele

> >

>

> Joe,

>

> I say that because it fits. You are in such a hurry to trash my

> friend, Steve Shore, that you assume you know stuff you don't. If you

> had bothered to talk to anyone who is actually on the board of ASA,

> CAN, GRASP etc, you would have not said what you did.

>

> That is how loose cannons operate. They are so hot to shoot off

> that they fire away at targets they don't even know exist for sure.

>

> Jerry Newport

>

>

>

--

FSA Associate Member

London Number

+44 (0)20 8090 4340.

Toll Free US 1-

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www.melesystems.com

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forums.youseful.net

[Guest guest]

>

> First off

>

> Unlocking autism is so bad anyone who associates themselves with

it should

> be ashamed of themselves.

>

> I have my facts right about unlocking autism and GRASP and CAN. In

fact I

> have spoken with someone on a board. I just cant say who.

>

> I met stephen shore. he is a nice guy. But this about preventing a

cure and

> he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy.He needs to resign

from

> unlocking autism.

>

> Joe

Joe, then the GRASP board has changed since I was briefly on it.

J was the only paid person and he was the founder and

executive director. CAN, I don't know about. ASA, I know for sure

that nobody on the board is paid except for Lee Grossman. If

IS getting money from Unlocking Autism, it is news to me.

Unless you can prove it, I find your assertion hard to believe.

Jerry Newport

[Guest guest]

I am not making an assertion that shore is being paid.

I guess he isnt.

>

>

> >

> > First off

> >

> > Unlocking autism is so bad anyone who associates themselves with

> it should

> > be ashamed of themselves.

> >

> > I have my facts right about unlocking autism and GRASP and CAN. In

> fact I

> > have spoken with someone on a board. I just cant say who.

> >

> > I met stephen shore. he is a nice guy. But this about preventing a

> cure and

> > he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy.He needs to resign

> from

> > unlocking autism.

> >

> > Joe

>

> Joe, then the GRASP board has changed since I was briefly on it.

> J was the only paid person and he was the founder and

> executive director. CAN, I don't know about. ASA, I know for sure

> that nobody on the board is paid except for Lee Grossman. If

> IS getting money from Unlocking Autism, it is news to me.

>

> Unless you can prove it, I find your assertion hard to believe.

>

> Jerry Newport

>

>

>

>

--

FSA Associate Member

London Number

+44 (0)20 8090 4340.

Toll Free US 1-

www.fmplugin.net

www.melesystems.com

www.youseful.com

forums.youseful.net

[Guest guest]

--- " Joe Mele " wrote:

>

> But this about preventing a cure and

> he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy. He needs to resign

> from unlocking autism.

That presumes the group is monolithic and single purpose. If

there is a reasonable possibility of changing the " curebie "

direction of a group, then it may make sense to be on the board

and advocate for non-cure positions.

Also, consider that there are different aspects to " cure " , many

of which are acceptable to most of us here. Examples would be

training for adaptation strategies and socialization techniques.

This doesn't support the basic " curebie " approach; instead

indicates that " treatment " does not necessarily suggest an

attempt to " cure autism " .

Perhaps one could say that the above are not aspects of " cure " ,

but that is a matter of definition. The relevant aspect is that

organizations which address autism issues from a treatment

standpoint aren't necessarily locked into a " curebie " approach.

More importantly to us, I think we would want these parent

support groups to convey a message concerning treatments which

are not an attempt at a " cure " .

- s

[Guest guest]

I know, CURE is the word you use when discussing Cancer, or HIV. Stop treating

Autism like it's a tumor or growth it's not contagious you don't need to cure

it. I can't stand when that term is used in the same sentence with the Spectrum,

it makes me sick.

To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse@...: joemele@...: Wed,

16 Aug 2006 16:13:09 -0400Subject: Re: Re: Autism Boards

First offUnlocking autism is so bad anyone who associates themselves with it

shouldbe ashamed of themselves.I have my facts right about unlocking autism and

GRASP and CAN. In fact Ihave spoken with someone on a board. I just cant say

who.I met stephen shore. he is a nice guy. But this about preventing a cure

andhe is supporting and collabrating with the enemy.He needs to resign

fromunlocking autism.JoeOn 8/16/06, Gerald Newport

wrote:>> > >> > First> > off> >> > I am not a

loose cannon. I dont know why you say that.> >> > I am a respected businessman.

My software is innovative. I deal> with facts> > all the time. I am only going

by what is the norm.> >> > Joe Mele> >>> Joe,>> I say that because it fits. You

are in such a hurry to trash my> friend, Steve Shore, that you assume you know

stuff you don't. If you> had bothered to talk to anyone who is actually on the

board of ASA,> CAN, GRASP etc, you would have not said what you did.>> That is

how loose cannons operate. They are so hot to shoot off> that they fire away at

targets they don't even know exist for sure.>> Jerry Newport>> >-- FSA Associate

MemberLondon Number+44 (0)20 8090 4340.Toll Free US

1-www.fmplugin.netwww.melesystems.comwww.youseful.comforums.yousef\

ul.net

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > First off

> > >

> > > Unlocking autism is so bad anyone who associates themselves with

> > it should

> > > be ashamed of themselves.

> > >

> > > I have my facts right about unlocking autism and GRASP and CAN.

In

> > fact I

> > > have spoken with someone on a board. I just cant say who.

> > >

> > > I met stephen shore. he is a nice guy. But this about

preventing a

> > cure and

> > > he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy.He needs to

resign

> > from

> > > unlocking autism.

> > >

> > > Joe

> >

> > Joe, then the GRASP board has changed since I was briefly on it.

> > J was the only paid person and he was the founder and

> > executive director. CAN, I don't know about. ASA, I know for sure

> > that nobody on the board is paid except for Lee Grossman. If

> > IS getting money from Unlocking Autism, it is news to me.

> >

> > Unless you can prove it, I find your assertion hard to believe.

> >

> > Jerry Newport

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> FSA Associate Member

> London Number

> +44 (0)20 8090 4340.

> Toll Free US 1-

> www.fmplugin.net

> www.melesystems.com

> www.youseful.com

> forums.youseful.net

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess you are right. I was thinking about history.

Back in nazi germany the notion of awareness of the jewish problem menat

many different things as does awareness of the autism problem today,

And of the " final solution " aka the cure meant many different things too.

Some merely wanted to banish all jews from europe, others want to humanely

steriliaze all jews. Of course they did not have access to todays technology

for prenatal test. because lets face if they could bear the children of

aryans and not jews that would have been acceptable.

Another group wanted to just kill them humanely of course.

Well, I wonder which group will win the second time around

>

> --- " Joe Mele " wrote:

> >

> > But this about preventing a cure and

> > he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy. He needs to resign

> > from unlocking autism.

>

> That presumes the group is monolithic and single purpose. If

> there is a reasonable possibility of changing the " curebie "

> direction of a group, then it may make sense to be on the board

> and advocate for non-cure positions.

>

> Also, consider that there are different aspects to " cure " , many

> of which are acceptable to most of us here. Examples would be

> training for adaptation strategies and socialization techniques.

> This doesn't support the basic " curebie " approach; instead

> indicates that " treatment " does not necessarily suggest an

> attempt to " cure autism " .

>

> Perhaps one could say that the above are not aspects of " cure " ,

> but that is a matter of definition. The relevant aspect is that

> organizations which address autism issues from a treatment

> standpoint aren't necessarily locked into a " curebie " approach.

>

> More importantly to us, I think we would want these parent

> support groups to convey a message concerning treatments which

> are not an attempt at a " cure " .

>

> - s

>

> Messages in this topic

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[Guest guest]

Joe, it is a huge stretch to compare seeking a cure for autism

with the Holocaust. I am not Jewish but I think the Holocaust was of

such a special magnitude of evil that it deserves to stand alone. Of

course, there were nine million victims of that event who weren't

Jewish too including many developmentally disabled persons.

True, there are some with an agenda of extermination of our

future peers by abortion helped by genetic knowledge. Fortunately,

that task is proving a lot more complicated than they hope.

To most parents I have met and professionals too, a " cure " means

that their child will be able to grow up able to work, live

independently, have friends, partners etc of his choice and make most

of his own decisions. I see nothing wrong with that. I would want

othing less than for my autistic child if I had one than I would want

for a normal child.

As a matter of fact, I am step-dad to two sons who both were never

diagnosed yet have some of their mom's stuff going on. With 's

help, they may as well be considered " cured " though the reality is

that they just learned to cope with that stuff and even make it work

for them at times.

Jerry Newport aka The Whale

> > >

> > > But this about preventing a cure and

> > > he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy. He needs to resign

> > > from unlocking autism.

> >

> > That presumes the group is monolithic and single purpose. If

> > there is a reasonable possibility of changing the " curebie "

> > direction of a group, then it may make sense to be on the board

> > and advocate for non-cure positions.

> >

> > Also, consider that there are different aspects to " cure " , many

> > of which are acceptable to most of us here. Examples would be

> > training for adaptation strategies and socialization techniques.

> > This doesn't support the basic " curebie " approach; instead

> > indicates that " treatment " does not necessarily suggest an

> > attempt to " cure autism " .

> >

> > Perhaps one could say that the above are not aspects of " cure " ,

> > but that is a matter of definition. The relevant aspect is that

> > organizations which address autism issues from a treatment

> > standpoint aren't necessarily locked into a " curebie " approach.

> >

> > More importantly to us, I think we would want these parent

> > support groups to convey a message concerning treatments which

> > are not an attempt at a " cure " .

> >

> > - s

> >

> > Messages in this topic

> >

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[Guest guest]

Jerry

When you see practically whole families being autistic, and cure will

eliminate them how is that not genocide???

Also Yea that is what people want from a cure but it is extremely naive to

think a cure will result in any thing but a prenatal test.

(not that you implied it one way or the other)

Look at the cure movement for downs. Prenatal test - no more cure movement

Just going by the precedent

>

>

> Joe, it is a huge stretch to compare seeking a cure for autism

> with the Holocaust. I am not Jewish but I think the Holocaust was of

> such a special magnitude of evil that it deserves to stand alone. Of

> course, there were nine million victims of that event who weren't

> Jewish too including many developmentally disabled persons.

>

> True, there are some with an agenda of extermination of our

> future peers by abortion helped by genetic knowledge. Fortunately,

> that task is proving a lot more complicated than they hope.

>

> To most parents I have met and professionals too, a " cure " means

> that their child will be able to grow up able to work, live

> independently, have friends, partners etc of his choice and make most

> of his own decisions. I see nothing wrong with that. I would want

> othing less than for my autistic child if I had one than I would want

> for a normal child.

>

> As a matter of fact, I am step-dad to two sons who both were never

> diagnosed yet have some of their mom's stuff going on. With 's

> help, they may as well be considered " cured " though the reality is

> that they just learned to cope with that stuff and even make it work

> for them at times.

>

> Jerry Newport aka The Whale

>

>

> -

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- " Joe Mele " wrote:

>

> But this about preventing a cure and

> he is supporting and collabrating with the enemy. He needs to resign

> from unlocking autism.

" Bulls$*#! " <http://www.pbase.com/ercphilip/image/22024217>

I have heard this before and regardless of the message I can't

take it seriously (sorry) but I can't regard it with anymore than what

is stated above...

I never could buy into an us/them mentality. It weakens the strength

of the statement for me when " enemy " is said. Seems like war that way,

and I am not for that.

kimberly

[Guest guest]

> >

> >

> > Joe, it is a huge stretch to compare seeking a cure for autism

> > with the Holocaust. I am not Jewish but I think the Holocaust was

of

> > such a special magnitude of evil that it deserves to stand alone.

Of

> > course, there were nine million victims of that event who weren't

> > Jewish too including many developmentally disabled persons.

> >

> > True, there are some with an agenda of extermination of our

> > future peers by abortion helped by genetic knowledge. Fortunately,

> > that task is proving a lot more complicated than they hope.

> >

> > To most parents I have met and professionals too, a " cure " means

> > that their child will be able to grow up able to work, live

> > independently, have friends, partners etc of his choice and make

most

> > of his own decisions. I see nothing wrong with that. I would want

> > othing less than for my autistic child if I had one than I would

want

> > for a normal child.

> >

> > As a matter of fact, I am step-dad to two sons who both were never

> > diagnosed yet have some of their mom's stuff going on. With 's

> > help, they may as well be considered " cured " though the reality is

> > that they just learned to cope with that stuff and even make it

work

> > for them at times.

> >

> > Jerry Newport aka The Whale

> >

> >

> > -

> > .

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

curing autism people want there children and familys

to be normal not get rid of them. my life would have

been better if i did not have autism i would have

friends,a job,home, a family , and not on ssi/ssa

i would have had all that but thats the way god made

me and when my mom and dad wish there was a cure for

autism so that i could have all that.and for me i have

not like my life with no friends,job,no money to buy

what i want go where i want i can only do with what i

have and i am not happy i have never known what it's

like to love,or have been loved it dosent work for me

and i wish it did thats why thy want a cure.just like

cancer cure it and friend and family will not die.cure

aids and people and children will live,cure muscular

dystrophy and children live.cure rare syndromes and

let all people live.but the will never find the cure

because there is to much money to be made looking for

the cure and if thy cured all of the people in the

world this country will go broke.there is so much

money spent on wheelchair.diapers.schools foundation

like asa.cancer research.aids.mda.that all those

people that work on finding a cure will not have a job

so thy will never find it and if thy do we will never

know about it.....tom-g

--- Gerald Newport wrote:

>

> > >

> > >

> > > Joe, it is a huge stretch to compare seeking a

> cure for autism

> > > with the Holocaust. I am not Jewish but I think

> the Holocaust was

> of

> > > such a special magnitude of evil that it

> deserves to stand alone.

> Of

> > > course, there were nine million victims of that

> event who weren't

> > > Jewish too including many developmentally

> disabled persons.

> > >

> > > True, there are some with an agenda of

> extermination of our

> > > future peers by abortion helped by genetic

> knowledge. Fortunately,

> > > that task is proving a lot more complicated than

> they hope.

> > >

> > > To most parents I have met and professionals

> too, a " cure " means

> > > that their child will be able to grow up able to

> work, live

> > > independently, have friends, partners etc of his

> choice and make

> most

> > > of his own decisions. I see nothing wrong with

> that. I would want

> > > othing less than for my autistic child if I had

> one than I would

> want

> > > for a normal child.

> > >

> > > As a matter of fact, I am step-dad to two sons

> who both were never

> > > diagnosed yet have some of their mom's stuff

> going on. With 's

> > > help, they may as well be considered " cured "

> though the reality is

> > > that they just learned to cope with that stuff

> and even make it

> work

> > > for them at times.

> > >

> > > Jerry Newport aka The Whale

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are many people with autism that have those things though. Has it

occured to you that it may be because of society's prejudices and because of

a lack of the right kinds of educational strategies that you don't posess

them? After all, autism can not be the sole or primary cause, given the

significant number of autistics that do have jobs, homes, families and so

on. Besides, being normal isn't always good. Many people have been able to

do very positive things because, not in spite, of their autistic

neurologies. Give it some thought.

>

> curing autism people want there children and familys

> to be normal not get rid of them. my life would have

> been better if i did not have autism i would have

> friends,a job,home, a family , and not on ssi/ssa

>

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[Guest guest]

Re: Tom's writing: It might be a bit difficult to read but I would

rather you do that and say what you think vs. trying to

write " correctly. " I seem to be able to understand most of it, I just

have to slow down a bit. Some people on the autism spectrum can't

write in a more grammatical fashion, some people can barely add and

subtract (like me) and so forth.

Re: the topic of the thread:

There is no guarantee that if you are cured you would have friends, a

home, job, family, etc. It also depends on what other skills you would

have if you were cured, where you live, what country you are in,

whether or not there's a war going on and you are in it, what

socioeconomic class you were born into, whether or not your job has

moved overseas, whether or not you marry someone who is a big credit

card debtor (just had to throw that one in!) and many other factors. I

think it would be easier in *some* respects to be " normal " but you

also might lose some of what you are that makes you a unique

individual. You would also have to assume that you would not have or

get one of teh many other diseases or conditions that life seems to

throw at people whether they want them or not.

It looks to me from reading the " cure " sites that the big focus is on

finding THE CURE. I have a friend who worked for a short time for a

pharmaceutical company and there really were people who did NOT want

to find cures as it would put them out of business.

Some of the drugs, especially neuroleptics, can cause huge problems.

Look up TARDIVE DYSKINESIA before you take any of them.

[Guest guest]

I just watched this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1089592181553286420 & hl=en

That's Dr. Meryl Lipton (UC ) talking about Social Emotional

Learning, which she believes will be able (once the theory and

associated practices are fully developed) to " intervene to change the

neuronal network " of autistic brains. Cure by (re)development rather

than cure by elimination.

Her talk was filmed in 2004, and I don't know where the " social

emotional learning " work has gone since then. In the video, she

compares it with the 20th century work done on dyslexia. Once

dyslexia was understood, she says, methods were developed whereby

dyslexics can be taught reading skills in a way that changes their

neuronal network. The 21st century, she hopes, will be the time when

analogous methods will be developed for teaching autistics the

" social emotional " skills (and the biological/neurological bases for

those skills) we lack.

I'm not advocating on her behalf, just reporting on some of what I heard.

Jane

[Guest guest]

I think you might have misunderstood my thoughts the

people i know that have autistic children wish the

where normal because of all the headache thy have gone

trough with schools.doctor.and people in the

comminty.my friend jen loves her son but never has a

brake it's a 24 hour job with no day's off.

i on the other hand have had my share of shools.jobs.i

had a wife and a child but just did not get the part

of knowing what was going on around me

that if i had a better turn out i might still have a

job or my wife i have my child my mom take care of me

and him full time and she all ways say's that she

never getts a brake.that what i am talking about i

like if i was normal she would be free " but i am not

and she is with me all the time making sure know one

take or misuses me.i have friend and thy are all

developmental,or have a handicaped.i have never had a

normal friend i have never gone to a party or any

where with out my family or disabled friends.don't get

this wrong i like my disabled friends and that i am

very good at special olympics.but have never been give

the chance to hang out on a normal team for sports i

get teased i have a tracheostomy for breathing.wear

diapers from birth from a genetic disorder have

muscular dystrophy.and asperger's i just wanted to

know what it feels like to have a day that no one

stares at you or makes fun of the way you act.or ask

you whats wrong every day i am tired of telling people

my store every day thank tom-g..

--- " Ari N. " wrote:

> There are many people with autism that have those

> things though. Has it

> occured to you that it may be because of society's

> prejudices and because of

> a lack of the right kinds of educational strategies

> that you don't posess

> them? After all, autism can not be the sole or

> primary cause, given the

> significant number of autistics that do have jobs,

> homes, families and so

> on. Besides, being normal isn't always good. Many

> people have been able to

> do very positive things because, not in spite, of

> their autistic

> neurologies. Give it some thought.

>

>

> On 8/19/06, Marilyn Graner

> wrote:

> >

> > curing autism people want there children and

> familys

> > to be normal not get rid of them. my life would

> have

> > been better if i did not have autism i would have

> > friends,a job,home, a family , and not on ssi/ssa

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

Well, I can certainly agree with you about oen thing, Tom. No one should

have to justify themselves to everyone they meet.

Someday though, if we advocate for a different world, *you* and other

currently existing autistics will have a better life. I find that far better

than advocating

for autistics not to be born in the future. Just my opinion on the matter. I

recognize the pain and the suffering that goes on out there, but much of

that is a function

of other things and of society. We need to address the root causes and

create a world that is accessible to all neurologies.

>

> I think you might have misunderstood my thoughts the

> people i know that have autistic children wish the

> where normal because of all the headache thy have gone

> trough with schools.doctor.and people in the

> comminty.my friend jen loves her son but never has a

> brake it's a 24 hour job with no day's off.

> i on the other hand have had my share of shools.jobs.i

> had a wife and a child but just did not get the part

> of knowing what was going on around me

> that if i had a better turn out i might still have a

> job or my wife i have my child my mom take care of me

> and him full time and she all ways say's that she

> never getts a brake.that what i am talking about i

> like if i was normal she would be free " but i am not

> and she is with me all the time making sure know one

> take or misuses me.i have friend and thy are all

> developmental,or have a handicaped.i have never had a

> normal friend i have never gone to a party or any

> where with out my family or disabled friends.don't get

> this wrong i like my disabled friends and that i am

> very good at special olympics.but have never been give

> the chance to hang out on a normal team for sports i

> get teased i have a tracheostomy for breathing.wear

> diapers from birth from a genetic disorder have

> muscular dystrophy.and asperger's i just wanted to

> know what it feels like to have a day that no one

> stares at you or makes fun of the way you act.or ask

> you whats wrong every day i am tired of telling people

> my store every day thank tom-g..

>

>

> --- " Ari N. " <Aneeman@... <Aneeman%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > There are many people with autism that have those

> > things though. Has it

> > occured to you that it may be because of society's

> > prejudices and because of

> > a lack of the right kinds of educational strategies

> > that you don't posess

> > them? After all, autism can not be the sole or

> > primary cause, given the

> > significant number of autistics that do have jobs,

> > homes, families and so

> > on. Besides, being normal isn't always good. Many

> > people have been able to

> > do very positive things because, not in spite, of

> > their autistic

> > neurologies. Give it some thought.

> >

> >

> > On 8/19/06, Marilyn Graner

> > <tmt.family@... <tmt.family%40sbcglobal.net>> wrote:

> > >

> > > curing autism people want there children and

> > familys

> > > to be normal not get rid of them. my life would

> > have

> > > been better if i did not have autism i would have

> > > friends,a job,home, a family , and not on ssi/ssa

> > >

> >

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[Guest guest]

have a nice night and thanks for reading my mom has to

help my spell almost every thing i wright a bout the

med i take for epilepsy rilly wipes my mind clean of

thoughts, and spelling is one that is bad take care

tom-g

--- " Ari N. " wrote:

> Well, I can certainly agree with you about oen

> thing, Tom. No one should

> have to justify themselves to everyone they meet.

> Someday though, if we advocate for a different

> world, *you* and other

> currently existing autistics will have a better

> life. I find that far better

> than advocating

> for autistics not to be born in the future. Just my

> opinion on the matter. I

> recognize the pain and the suffering that goes on

> out there, but much of

> that is a function

> of other things and of society. We need to address

> the root causes and

> create a world that is accessible to all

> neurologies.

>

>

> On 8/20/06, Marilyn Graner

> wrote:

> >

> > I think you might have misunderstood my

> thoughts the

> > people i know that have autistic children wish the

> > where normal because of all the headache thy have

> gone

> > trough with schools.doctor.and people in the

> > comminty.my friend jen loves her son but never has

> a

> > brake it's a 24 hour job with no day's off.

> > i on the other hand have had my share of

> shools.jobs.i

> > had a wife and a child but just did not get the

> part

> > of knowing what was going on around me

> > that if i had a better turn out i might still have

> a

> > job or my wife i have my child my mom take care of

> me

> > and him full time and she all ways say's that she

> > never getts a brake.that what i am talking about i

> > like if i was normal she would be free " but i am

> not

> > and she is with me all the time making sure know

> one

> > take or misuses me.i have friend and thy are all

> > developmental,or have a handicaped.i have never

> had a

> > normal friend i have never gone to a party or any

> > where with out my family or disabled friends.don't

> get

> > this wrong i like my disabled friends and that i

> am

> > very good at special olympics.but have never been

> give

> > the chance to hang out on a normal team for sports

> i

> > get teased i have a tracheostomy for

> breathing.wear

> > diapers from birth from a genetic disorder have

> > muscular dystrophy.and asperger's i just wanted to

> > know what it feels like to have a day that no one

> > stares at you or makes fun of the way you act.or

> ask

> > you whats wrong every day i am tired of telling

> people

> > my store every day thank tom-g..

> >

> >

> > --- " Ari N. " <Aneeman@...

> <Aneeman%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> >

> > > There are many people with autism that have

> those

> > > things though. Has it

> > > occured to you that it may be because of

> society's

> > > prejudices and because of

> > > a lack of the right kinds of educational

> strategies

> > > that you don't posess

> > > them? After all, autism can not be the sole or

> > > primary cause, given the

> > > significant number of autistics that do have

> jobs,

> > > homes, families and so

> > > on. Besides, being normal isn't always good.

> Many

> > > people have been able to

> > > do very positive things because, not in spite,

> of

> > > their autistic

> > > neurologies. Give it some thought.

> > >

> > >

> > > On 8/19/06, Marilyn Graner

> > > <tmt.family@...

> <tmt.family%40sbcglobal.net>> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > curing autism people want there children and

> > > familys

> > > > to be normal not get rid of them. my life

> would

> > > have

> > > > been better if i did not have autism i would

> have

> > > > friends,a job,home, a family , and not on

> ssi/ssa

> > > >

> > >

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> >

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=== message truncated ===

[Guest guest]

> I guess you are right. I was thinking about history.

>

> Back in nazi germany ...

> And of the " final solution " aka the cure meant many different things too.

>

> Well, I wonder which group will win the second time around

I don't see this as a relevant analogy for " curebie " issues,

other than in the broad sense of variations. Variations can be

found in most political or social positions, such as mainstream

political parties.

AFAIK, nobody is talking about genocide of autistics, so the

form of genocide is not relevant here. The closest one can come

is the possible ability to perform tests and abortion; however

there are no indications that this is being done. For one

thing, despite press reports, there is no marker gene for

autism.

The " curebie " approach can be termed a form of oppression.

While genocide and other Nazi activities are oppression, the

opposite is not true (oppression isn't genocide). It may be

that " curebie " parents wish to replace the autistic with a

" normal " child, but last I checked this wasn't being done at

death camps.

So the often quoted " First they came for the Jews... " doesn't

apply here.

Instead a comparison would be with a fictitious Nazi state which

determined to make their victims less distinguishable. Again,

we're talking about oppression rather than genocide.

Put another way, if I am opposing (or for that matter favouring)

smoking in public, my position may be anywhere from supporting

mandatory non-smoking sections in public places to banning sale

of recreational tobacco products. Regardless, taking one

position does not make me a Nazi or even like a Nazi in a

general sense. (The term " antismoking Nazi " may apply, but that

use of the term is not relevant to the above issues.)

- s

[Guest guest]

..I usually stay quiet, but I really have to say this. I think the danger lay

in this...

Doesn't the real scary thing be that if people have the choice

to say, ''Oh I took that test and found out I am carrying a baby who will

grow to term

and be autistic? Horrid! Then I will abort the baby. Its my choice.''

Isn't it better then, to choose life, WITH the struggles, Tom, to choose

acceptance for

oneself, to --- dare I say ---be happy with being autistic, despite the

challenges, even

though it presents a series of hurdles for those affected?

Because the alternative, the so-called cure, (see paragraph 2,) is alarming.

K

[Guest guest]

Stan's Computer wrote:

> Joe Mele wrote:

> > I guess you are right. I was thinking about history.

> > Back in nazi germany ... And of the " final solution "

> > aka the cure meant many different things too.

> > Well, I wonder which group will win the second time around

> I don't see this as a relevant analogy for " curebie " issues,

> other than in the broad sense of variations. Variations can be

> found in most political or social positions, such as mainstream

> political parties.

Thanks Stan, for contributing your voice of rationality. Whenever

people pull out the " n " (igger) word or the " N " (azi) word, they

are only appealing to emotionality, and the baser emotions at that.

We can't afford to put ourselves automatically " in the wrong " by

stooping to such methods, and letting go of logic and reason,

rationality and common sense.

Clay

> AFAIK, nobody is talking about genocide of autistics, so the

> form of genocide is not relevant here. The closest one can come

> is the possible ability to perform tests and abortion; however

> there are no indications that this is being done. For one

> thing, despite press reports, there is no marker gene for

> autism.

>

> The " curebie " approach can be termed a form of oppression.

> While genocide and other Nazi activities are oppression, the

> opposite is not true (oppression isn't genocide). It may be

> that " curebie " parents wish to replace the autistic with a

> " normal " child, but last I checked this wasn't being done at

> death camps.

>

> So the often quoted " First they came for the Jews... " doesn't

> apply here.

>

> Instead a comparison would be with a fictitious Nazi state which

> determined to make their victims less distinguishable. Again,

> we're talking about oppression rather than genocide.

>

> Put another way, if I am opposing (or for that matter favouring)

> smoking in public, my position may be anywhere from supporting

> mandatory non-smoking sections in public places to banning sale

> of recreational tobacco products. Regardless, taking one

> position does not make me a Nazi or even like a Nazi in a

> general sense. (The term " antismoking Nazi " may apply, but that

> use of the term is not relevant to the above issues.)

>

> - s

>

[Guest guest]

i cant speak for others but i can say that if thats

what a parent want's to do is there choice not mine

but you must also look at that child will need care

it's hole life and hoo pay's for it the goverment and

the family for life if the child is high functioning

fine. but profound that will cost so much money to

care for this person, and is it fair to put that child

through all the pain and suffering it might have.i am

lucky to beware i am now but there are others out

there that are worse then me and how do thy feel " thats

the ????.

abortion not wright but if thy can find a way to test

for autism and say that the child with be high

functioning fine but if the test say low then i would

ask my self do i rilly wanted a child that will suffer

it's hole life i would say no to that,It's like down

syndrome thy have a test for that but the ? is will

this child be abale to live a normal life and thy can

not answer this at this time so that is a big ?? i

cant answer tom-g

--- KayeT wrote:

> .I usually stay quiet, but I really have to say

> this. I think the danger lay

> in this...

>

> Doesn't the real scary thing be that if people have

> the choice

> to say, ''Oh I took that test and found out I am

> carrying a baby who will

> grow to term

> and be autistic? Horrid! Then I will abort the baby.

> Its my choice.''

>

> Isn't it better then, to choose life, WITH the

> struggles, Tom, to choose

> acceptance for

> oneself, to --- dare I say ---be happy with being

> autistic, despite the

> challenges, even

> though it presents a series of hurdles for those

> affected?

>

> Because the alternative, the so-called cure, (see

> paragraph 2,) is alarming.

>

> K

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>