Re: Asperger's and Politics

[Guest guest]

Ari,

I suppose the answer lies in

getting famous over anything at all...then explode how autism helped get us

there...

or just going through each day...exposing yourself...

or both...

we do both...we get famous here by walking into every corner of our earth

and being ourselves...

getting known by all is my goal...

they will see first and foremost that we the autist can

be first to say hello...

being the best at their game may solve our problems...

I don't believe in hiding the children of autism...

so I take them out and prove...

with our quirks we are composed...and more prideful than most...more

sensitive than the rest...more of everything that whitewashes us away...into

oblivion...especially us over 40....

so here's a toast to any of us who can fight to the finish

a claim to our entitlement...

a stake at the ultimate goal...

lest we wither and crawl up and die...

I believe in autism...I believe in me...

Lou

aspergersliberty wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm a new member (first time posting) and I was just

reading through the archives and found the " I'm a Curbie " thread

fascinating (for both content and spelling reasons ). I am a

strong advocate of neurodiversity and against those that would

promote neurological conformity for the human race, but I wonder

sometimes if we fail to make our position as known as possible.

What do most people think of when they think Autism, in any form? A

disability, to be cured by modern medical science. Unfortunately, we

haven't been as effective as we would like in getting our message

out. That's a large part of the reason why the " curebies " - NAAR,

Autism Speaks, CAN, DAN, etc. - have such influence and recognition,

whereas we're an eclectic bunch of internet communities, at best,

and a dangerous fringe movement, at worst, at least in the eyes of

the world (when they see us at all). Perhaps its a matter of time

until we gain greater recognition. Perhaps this is just the slow

historical progression that will lead humanity to a more tolerant

world. But then again, I think that many of us forget how time

sensitive our work really is. There is a multi-billion dollar effort

to " Defeat " and " Cure " Autism, in all of its forms, and its backed

by large segments of public opinion and a very significant

Congressional caucus. Will humanity become more tolerant before a

cure is achieved? Somehow, I doubt it.

So I just wanted to get the general opinion of the group on how we

can improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the movement.

Obviously, there have been great strides in the last few years, but

we haven't been keeping up with the " Cure Now " Lobby, not by a long

shot. It's interesting to note, but its standard practice for

newspapers to get a quote from both sides of any issue of

controversy when doing a story. Now, if a journalist is doing a

story on " Curing Autism " , or the launch of a new " Autism Advocacy "

organization, or any of those other things, does it even occur to

them, ninety nine times out of a hundred, to solicit an opinion from

the neurodiversity movement? Absolutely not.

How can we change that? On top of that, how can we work to build a

more widespread autistic identity, so that people can be proud to

realize that they are Asperger's autistics and be willing to

vehemently advocate for our cause. Where's that unity going to come

from and how are we going to use it?

I have quite a few opinions myself, as I'm sure you can guess, but

I'd like to hear some of the responses here first and then talk a

bit about what I think.

-Ari N.

[Guest guest]

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY:

DON'T SEND ME AWAY

DON'T SENT ME AWAY

I'VE SOMETHING TO SAY

I'VE SEEN YOUR WAYS

OBLIDGE TO THEM...

NOW ITS YOUR TURN TO TURN

TO ME...

I'VE SOMETHING TO SAY...

SOMETHING TO GIVE...

IT HAS AUTISM ROCKS

AND AUTISM FORGOES...

IT HAS FORCES BENEATH...

FORCES ABOVE...

IT HAS FOLKS HAND IN HAND...

BEIEVING IN ONE LAND...

WE ARE EVERY WHERE...

THE WORLD HAS ALREADY

SEEN US...

WE ARE INVINCIBLE...

I THINK WE ARE THE FUTURE

OF THIS WORLD...JUST

A LITTLE TOO HIDDEN...

LET'S BREAK AND

BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOVING YOU ALL FOR WHO YOU ARE...MARY LOU

Labdon wrote:

Ari,

I suppose the answer lies in

getting famous over anything at all...then explode how autism helped get us

there...

or just going through each day...exposing yourself...

or both...

we do both...we get famous here by walking into every corner of our earth

and being ourselves...

getting known by all is my goal...

they will see first and foremost that we the autist can

be first to say hello...

being the best at their game may solve our problems...

I don't believe in hiding the children of autism...

so I take them out and prove...

with our quirks we are composed...and more prideful than most...more

sensitive than the rest...more of everything that whitewashes us away...into

oblivion...especially us over 40....

so here's a toast to any of us who can fight to the finish

a claim to our entitlement...

a stake at the ultimate goal...

lest we wither and crawl up and die...

I believe in autism...I believe in me...

Lou

aspergersliberty wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm a new member (first time posting) and I was just

reading through the archives and found the " I'm a Curbie " thread

fascinating (for both content and spelling reasons ). I am a

strong advocate of neurodiversity and against those that would

promote neurological conformity for the human race, but I wonder

sometimes if we fail to make our position as known as possible.

What do most people think of when they think Autism, in any form? A

disability, to be cured by modern medical science. Unfortunately, we

haven't been as effective as we would like in getting our message

out. That's a large part of the reason why the " curebies " - NAAR,

Autism Speaks, CAN, DAN, etc. - have such influence and recognition,

whereas we're an eclectic bunch of internet communities, at best,

and a dangerous fringe movement, at worst, at least in the eyes of

the world (when they see us at all). Perhaps its a matter of time

until we gain greater recognition. Perhaps this is just the slow

historical progression that will lead humanity to a more tolerant

world. But then again, I think that many of us forget how time

sensitive our work really is. There is a multi-billion dollar effort

to " Defeat " and " Cure " Autism, in all of its forms, and its backed

by large segments of public opinion and a very significant

Congressional caucus. Will humanity become more tolerant before a

cure is achieved? Somehow, I doubt it.

So I just wanted to get the general opinion of the group on how we

can improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the movement.

Obviously, there have been great strides in the last few years, but

we haven't been keeping up with the " Cure Now " Lobby, not by a long

shot. It's interesting to note, but its standard practice for

newspapers to get a quote from both sides of any issue of

controversy when doing a story. Now, if a journalist is doing a

story on " Curing Autism " , or the launch of a new " Autism Advocacy "

organization, or any of those other things, does it even occur to

them, ninety nine times out of a hundred, to solicit an opinion from

the neurodiversity movement? Absolutely not.

How can we change that? On top of that, how can we work to build a

more widespread autistic identity, so that people can be proud to

realize that they are Asperger's autistics and be willing to

vehemently advocate for our cause. Where's that unity going to come

from and how are we going to use it?

I have quite a few opinions myself, as I'm sure you can guess, but

I'd like to hear some of the responses here first and then talk a

bit about what I think.

-Ari N.

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

>So I just wanted to get the general opinion of the group on how we

>can improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the movement.

>Obviously, there have been great strides in the last few years, but

>we haven't been keeping up with the " Cure Now " Lobby, not by a long

>shot.

I don't think we can " keep up " with those CAN and DAN! lobbies. They

have so much money.

There was a series on Autism in the New York Times a couple of years

ago. It included a report on Autreat (by Amy Harmon, if I am

remembering her name correctly).

So far, our " movement " has been mainly online, at Autreat/Autscape,

and in a few publicized court battles ( Dawson's advocacy in

Canada, and a few isolated civil-rights cases in the U.S.). What's

going on onlne is effective for those who are online. Especially

neurodiversity.com and the couple of newish blogs.

Bringing about a society-wide change in consciousness is not a short-term goal!

Jane

[Guest guest]

I don't disagree with you. At this point, we can't match them, and

it certainly is a long term goal. My question is: How do we get

ourselves to a point where we can start combating these groups

effectively, and are we doing everything we possibly can right now?

I've seen Ms. Harmon's articles. She's written three related to

neurodiversity, all very positive. But one press clipping does not a

movement make. What can we do to make this more than an occasional

novelty in people's minds? What can we do to put an end to

discrimination on the basis of neurology on the same level in

people's minds as an end to discrimination on the basis race,

religion, gender or, at least for many, sexual orientation? We will

know the movement has begun to infiltrate the mainstream when we see

neurotypicals with no obvious material interest in neurological

diversity (as in, those who are not parents, siblings, spouses, etc.

of autistics) get involved, for no other reason other than seeing

the inherent justice in our cause. God knows there are enough

habitual crusaders for social justice of all sorts. It would be good

to tap into the energy, resources and enthusiasm of those groups for

our own cause.

Actually, the gay rights movement provides a valuable model. Whether

or not one is in support, against or apathetic towards that

movements goals, people are aware of it. It's on the agenda and so,

at some level, people are forced to think about it and the press,

the media and even policymakers are forced to be aware of the

opinions on all sides in relation to this.

The internet has been a valuable tool. Autreat/Autscape has been a

wonderful start. But how can we shift things to bring us even

further onto the public consciousness? I think building a more

unified and efficient movement is a part of that.

Ari

> >So I just wanted to get the general opinion of the group on how we

> >can improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the movement.

> >Obviously, there have been great strides in the last few years,

but

> >we haven't been keeping up with the " Cure Now " Lobby, not by a

long

> >shot.

>

> I don't think we can " keep up " with those CAN and DAN! lobbies.

They

> have so much money.

>

> There was a series on Autism in the New York Times a couple of

years

> ago. It included a report on Autreat (by Amy Harmon, if I am

> remembering her name correctly).

>

> So far, our " movement " has been mainly online, at

Autreat/Autscape,

> and in a few publicized court battles ( Dawson's advocacy

in

> Canada, and a few isolated civil-rights cases in the U.S.). What's

> going on onlne is effective for those who are online. Especially

> neurodiversity.com and the couple of newish blogs.

>

> Bringing about a society-wide change in consciousness is not a

short-term goal!

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

>The internet has been a valuable tool. Autreat/Autscape has been a

>wonderful start. But how can we shift things to bring us even

>further onto the public consciousness? I think building a more

>unified and efficient movement is a part of that.

Phil Schwarz has been arguing for years that we are too few to do it

on our own. Therefore, we need allies. Dependable allies who share

our (non-curebie, autism-positive) POV. He's been working hard on

developing a plan for recruiting allies and training them in how to

do real autism-advocacy.

His presentation at Autreat this year should be interesting. There

may be co-presenters, people who have been effective in groups like

PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) that mobilize allies

to broaden public/social acceptance and to support changes in law and

custom.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Obviously you have a dream...

like Luther King

or of many other sufferers...

I think TV, I think books, I think movies....

so this could be our avenue...I think we have to get

it out...but first to have just one to break in the ice...

Then we could follow...

So far I know of Donna who has written a book...on her autism...

but she charged me money to email her...

I know of Temple Grandin but I don't consider her accessible...

I think we need someone to be pretty defiant in heart and fun loving

in the same breath...

We must choose a leader and get them the attention they need...

possibly through Fox news or Oprah...

I think our path is long past due a righteous place...

after all, how much can we suppress our beauty...

What is so wrong with us that we cannot make a splash in this life

before we die?

Come on,

Need fuel...

Jane Meyerding wrote:

Ari wrote:

>The internet has been a valuable tool. Autreat/Autscape has been a

>wonderful start. But how can we shift things to bring us even

>further onto the public consciousness? I think building a more

>unified and efficient movement is a part of that.

Phil Schwarz has been arguing for years that we are too few to do it

on our own. Therefore, we need allies. Dependable allies who share

our (non-curebie, autism-positive) POV. He's been working hard on

developing a plan for recruiting allies and training them in how to

do real autism-advocacy.

His presentation at Autreat this year should be interesting. There

may be co-presenters, people who have been effective in groups like

PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) that mobilize allies

to broaden public/social acceptance and to support changes in law and

custom.

Jane

[Guest guest]

> >The internet has been a valuable tool. Autreat/Autscape has been a

> >wonderful start. But how can we shift things to bring us even

> >further onto the public consciousness? I think building a more

> >unified and efficient movement is a part of that.

>

> Phil Schwarz has been arguing for years that we are too few to do it

> on our own. Therefore, we need allies. Dependable allies who share

> our (non-curebie, autism-positive) POV. He's been working hard on

> developing a plan for recruiting allies and training them in how to

> do real autism-advocacy.

>

I think we have the numbers but there is a shortage of us with

advocacy skills. There is also a chronic problem of leadership baggage

on top of most of our organizations, which lack the structure

necessary to attract any significant funding. Other than GRASP and I

assume AANE, most of our organizations don't have tax exempt status

for example.

Jerry Newport

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> We must choose a leader and get them the attention they need...

> possibly through Fox news or Oprah...

Pardon me, but Yuk! I am not looking for a " leader. " And the

Fox/Oprah type media distort everything they touch.

Jane

[Guest guest]

While it would definitely be good to see a more visible (in the eyes

of the world, not in our community, where things are relatively good

on that front) leadership, I definitely agree that the talk show

circuit is definitely NOT the direction we should go in. That's just

playing even further into the whole " novelty " idea, and as the recent

Dr. Phil fiasco showed, tends to distort our ideas more than it

promotes them. The bottomline is we need to figure out a way to move

more towards a respectable, mainstream position in public life, so we

can advocate our ideals with the greatest level of effectiveness.

In a similar vein, I definitely agree with Jerry's point about the

need for more effective advocacy skills. Structure, public relations,

funding, legal status...all of these are important issues that we need

to start improving our position on, so we can move from a mostly

internet-only movement to a broader one. In some of the speaking work

I've done with my state's Department of Education, we've worked with

teenagers on how to improve self-advocacy skills to make them better

able to help themselves. It might be useful to start considering

working with the teens in our community to build strong advocates for

our cause in the future. Neurodiversity enthusiastic teens grow up to

be neurodiversity enthusiastic adults, and they can work for our cause

with all the considerable success those of our community are capable

of (Just think of all the notable people who were probably autistics

throughout history!). Autreat is a great model for that sort of thing,

and I hope to talk about those sorts of issues and the means we can

use to accomplish them there, if my presentation proposal is approved.

-Ari N.

> > We must choose a leader and get them the attention they need...

> > possibly through Fox news or Oprah...

>

> Pardon me, but Yuk! I am not looking for a " leader. " And the

> Fox/Oprah type media distort everything they touch.

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

> Other than GRASP and I

> assume AANE, most of our organizations don't have tax exempt status

> for example.

And then there are the problems in the political positions of the

organizations themselves.

I know someone, for instance, who was told by a high-up person in

GRASP that he should not attend GRASP meetings because he didn't

speak, stimmed a lot, and was very straightforward. (He told me he'd

hate to think what they'd do when confronted with me, if that was

their reaction to *him*. :-P)

(You once asked about the tax-exempt status of autistics.org, by the

way. We're not, because we're not anything that could really feasibly

become a formal organization, and we don't really have " members " ,

we're just a few people running a website as best we can.)

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

> How can we change that? On top of that, how can we work to build a

> more widespread autistic identity, so that people can be proud to

> realize that they are Asperger's autistics and be willing to vehe-

> mently advocate for our cause. Where's that unity going to come from

> and how are we going to use it?

I'd say we're open to some new answers to those questions.

> I have quite a few opinions myself, as I'm sure you can guess, but

> I'd like to hear some of the responses here first and then talk a

> bit about what I think.

> -Ari N.

When I first read this (yesterday), I wondered, " Who the heck Are

you? " Then, today, reading your latest post, I remembered you were

the one who wrote the excellent article on neurodiversity.com about

the Aspie character on " Boston Legal " . Well done, and welcome.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Clay

[Guest guest]

So my ideas aren't so kosher...what are yours???

Jane Meyerding wrote:

wrote:

> We must choose a leader and get them the attention they need...

> possibly through Fox news or Oprah...

Pardon me, but Yuk! I am not looking for a " leader. " And the

Fox/Oprah type media distort everything they touch.

Jane

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>So my ideas aren't so kosher...what are yours???

I've never been an initiator. But I generally go for the bottom-up

rather than the top-down model. Phil Schwarz is working on how

autistics might be able to adapt the model of groups like PFLAG

(Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) to provide a framework in

which " allies " of autistics would be able to help us change the way

society perceives us. So far, I think individual autistics (,

, etc.) are reaching and changing individual non-autistics, and

a very few non-autistics (e.g., Kathleen) are working on their own.

(Plus, even fewer clinicians/scientists are working with/publishing

about studies where autism is not a sickness.) What we need to do is

" grow " that kind of thing, encouraging those who can speak and be

heard to do so. Not all can speak (or " speak " ) and not all those who

can speak (or " speak " ) will be " heard " (listened to) for one reason

or another. So it is especially important that those who will be

heard start feeling able to speak. Not on Fox/Oprah, but in their

local schools, at church/synagogue/mosque, at the grocery store, in

the police station, at work, etc. Speaking up for acceptance for

*all* autistics, not just for those who can " act normal. "

Jane

[Guest guest]

That is another unfortunate difficulty. I know of another (or

perhaps the same?) person who was kicked out of GRASP by a very high

ranking official for protesting some of the more offensive

statements made by FAAAS (Families of Adults Afflicted with

Asperger's Syndrome) and ASPar, both of which advance ideas very

hostile to autistics who wish to have families. If we're fighting

for equality and the ability to be who we are, it doesn't serve our

interests to see those of our own number acting as puppets of the

neurotypical world.

I believe a true autistic advocacy movement, one whose intention is

one of achieving equality on the same basis of other legitimate and

accepted minority groups, can not merely parrot and mimic

neurotypical behaviors and culture. We need to continue with the

admirable work so many organizations in our community have done in

building our own institutions, our own culture and our own

practices. As the neurodiversity.com article that I wrote and Clay

mentioned makes very clear, I'm in no way a supporter totally

rejecting mainstream society. To do so would not serve our purposes.

But we need to look towards Autistic and Aspergian alternatives to

where neurotypical society and culture becomes oppressive, illogical

and counterproductive.

As you're very active with autistics.org, I'd be curious to know

what you think about the development of this rising

Autistic/Aspergian culture and how individual autistics can help

facilitate that.

> I'd say we're open to some new answers to those questions.

.....

> When I first read this (yesterday), I wondered, " Who the heck Are

> you? " Then, today, reading your latest post, I remembered you

were

> the one who wrote the excellent article on neurodiversity.com about

> the Aspie character on " Boston Legal " . Well done, and welcome.

> I'll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Guest guest]

> That is another unfortunate difficulty. I know of another (or

> perhaps the same?) person who was kicked out of GRASP ...

<snip>

Definitely not the same person then. The person I know, was never in

GRASP -- it was just made very clear that this person should not

bother attending their meetings.

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

> The alternatives to that terminology, I've noted, tends to vary -

> autistic, Asperger's autistic, Aspergian, Asperger's/HFA. I guess

> part of the problem lies in the desire by many to distingush be-

> tween types of autistics (high functioning or low functioning,

> HFA or Asperger's, etc.) It might be worth pondering the social

> and political ramifications of word choice in this respect - both

> internally for our community and externally for our advocacy

> efforts. Words do, after all, shape thought, as the political

> world tends to show. What do you think about all that?

As a (self-proclaimed) English savant, I don't like the word

" Aspergian " , while I DO like the term " Aspie " , but that doesn't

imply any political connotations. Asperger's Syndrome was my Dx,

but I don't hold myself in any way superior to anyone on the

spectrum. I may have been luckier than many, in that I have always

been able to work, but I'm a " straight-up " Aspie in that I have

suffered all the teasing, bullying, ostracism, and *misunderstand-

ings* it's possible to have in my nearly 60 years.

I don't have a problem saying that I'm autistic. I know it's true,

but when I say that to NTs, they think I'm overstating the case,

perhaps looking for some special consideration, or trying to get

attention. (The latter was said about me by one of my sisters to

the rest of my family.) I just don't fit their (mis)conception of

what autism is like. It's like I have to redefine and explain it

to everyone I try to tell about it. Sometimes I can " get through " ,

but sometimes not. Often, people are slow to accept a redefinition

of something they think they already know.

Internally, mostly we just leave off the labels, such as high or low

functioning. There's just too many variables to pigeon-hole people

into one group or another.

Clay

http://www.mogulmarketing.com/clay/chipsy.htm

[Guest guest]

I enjoyed your email. i also viewed your poems, and pictures, very very nice, we

have 5 cats, and i feed the squirrels, and the birds, and rabbits too. i am at

duxb04@... My daughter is high functioning autistic

Clay wrote: Ari wrote:

> The alternatives to that terminology, I've noted, tends to vary -

> autistic, Asperger's autistic, Aspergian, Asperger's/HFA. I guess

> part of the problem lies in the desire by many to distingush be-

> tween types of autistics (high functioning or low functioning,

> HFA or Asperger's, etc.) It might be worth pondering the social

> and political ramifications of word choice in this respect - both

> internally for our community and externally for our advocacy

> efforts. Words do, after all, shape thought, as the political

> world tends to show. What do you think about all that?

As a (self-proclaimed) English savant, I don't like the word

" Aspergian " , while I DO like the term " Aspie " , but that doesn't

imply any political connotations. Asperger's Syndrome was my Dx,

but I don't hold myself in any way superior to anyone on the

spectrum. I may have been luckier than many, in that I have always

been able to work, but I'm a " straight-up " Aspie in that I have

suffered all the teasing, bullying, ostracism, and *misunderstand-

ings* it's possible to have in my nearly 60 years.

I don't have a problem saying that I'm autistic. I know it's true,

but when I say that to NTs, they think I'm overstating the case,

perhaps looking for some special consideration, or trying to get

attention. (The latter was said about me by one of my sisters to

the rest of my family.) I just don't fit their (mis)conception of

what autism is like. It's like I have to redefine and explain it

to everyone I try to tell about it. Sometimes I can " get through " ,

but sometimes not. Often, people are slow to accept a redefinition

of something they think they already know.

Internally, mostly we just leave off the labels, such as high or low

functioning. There's just too many variables to pigeon-hole people

into one group or another.

Clay

http://www.mogulmarketing.com/clay/chipsy.htm

[Guest guest]

Rosemary Duxbury

>I enjoyed your email. i also viewed your poems, and pictures, very

>very nice, we have 5 cats, and i feed the squirrels, and the birds,

>and rabbits too. i am at duxb04@... My daughter is high

>functioning autistic

I like your name. Sounds like someone in a children's story.

I used to take peanuts along to give to squirrels on campus in the

winter, but we haven't had enough winter to make them need my

contribution to their diet.

Jane

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>> I know someone, for instance, who was told by a high-up person in

GRASP that he should not attend GRASP meetings because he didn't

speak, stimmed a lot, and was very straightforward. (He told me he'd

hate to think what they'd do when confronted with me, if that was

their reaction to *him*. :-P) <<

I recently took over running the Manhattan GRASP group. (We meet

twice a month, and my second meeting is tonight.) I'm working on

some issues, and I'll write more about that later. (My home computer

is dead, and I only have internet access at work now.)

Please email me privately ( or anyone else with information)

about the particulars of this person's (or anyone else's) exclusion

from a GRASP meeting.

As I am now " they " in Manhattan, I can assure you it won't happen

there. If you show up, , I'll throw a party.

- Debra

[Guest guest]

Do you know of any groups that are less technical...

I just can't grasp this group...though I try...

I failed, alas...

Please offer any solutions...as to another group...with two teens autistic it

is difficult for me to surf around...

Just looking for a home...

thanks a million,

debra_bettis wrote:

wrote:

>> I know someone, for instance, who was told by a high-up person in

GRASP that he should not attend GRASP meetings because he didn't

speak, stimmed a lot, and was very straightforward. (He told me he'd

hate to think what they'd do when confronted with me, if that was

their reaction to *him*. :-P) <<

I recently took over running the Manhattan GRASP group. (We meet

twice a month, and my second meeting is tonight.) I'm working on

some issues, and I'll write more about that later. (My home computer

is dead, and I only have internet access at work now.)

Please email me privately ( or anyone else with information)

about the particulars of this person's (or anyone else's) exclusion

from a GRASP meeting.

As I am now " they " in Manhattan, I can assure you it won't happen

there. If you show up, , I'll throw a party.

- Debra

[Guest guest]

I don't know what you mean by " less technical, " exactly, but I can

probably guess.

This group tends to be for people with Aspergers and people with Autism,

or whatever terminology I'm supposed to use. When we're talking to each

other, about what we've most all experienced, well, we just say anything

that seems appropriate, and it probably is, because everybody knows where

everybody else is talking about, mostly.

What you're looking for is probably one of those groups for Parents Of.

I'm sure there are a large number of Parents Of groups. Since I've

dropped almost all of my Aspie groups, I don't have any to recommend. And

I'd hesitate to recommend groups who might be thinking like those folks

who " deprogram " folks in cults that claim to be Christian, who feel that

Aspergers and Autism is like demonic posession and needs to be driven out

as sinful.

So I don't know where to point you to, but I do wish you the best in your

search.

It may be that this group -is- what you're looking for, or should be

looking for, but it's too hard. No magic formulas here, no best-selling

books, just people who have been dealing with the same stuff, sometimes

for decades. And the only answers here are to deal with the same stuff

for decades.

OTOH, how you get from kids like yours to adults like us is a damn good

question, and I'm not sure here is the right place to look for the answer.

So again, I wish you the best in your search.

May I suggest you go ahead and subscribe to as many of the Yahoo autism-

related groups as you can, all at once, have your mail client filter them

into different folders, read a few dozen or a few hundred messages, and

unsubscribe your way through all the groups that seem useless to your

search.

I suspect it's the only way, because different groups end up with

different perspectives, often thoroughly different from what you might

expect from their webpages, and because as different individuals move in

and out of those groups, their natures can change substantially. If

you're not sure what I mean by that, think about the parable of the

National Rifle Association, which used to be about hunting.

Conversely, it may be that you're learning that what your children are

facing and becoming may be " too technical " for you, and you might be

looking forward to a paradigm shift in your perceptions of your children

and their lives and how they'll change. I, however, have no children, and

when tempted to offer advice in raising children, I should just shut the

hell up. (He said, laughingly) ;-)

It was 16 Feb 2006, when Labdon commented:

> Do you know of any groups that are less technical...

> I just can't grasp this group...though I try...

> I failed, alas...

> Please offer any solutions...as to another group...with two teens

> autistic it is difficult for me to surf around... Just looking for a

> home... thanks a million,

>

> debra_bettis wrote:

> wrote:

> >> I know someone, for instance, who was told by a high-up person in

> GRASP that he should not attend GRASP meetings because he didn't

> speak, stimmed a lot, and was very straightforward. (He told me he'd hate

> to think what they'd do when confronted with me, if that was their reaction

> to *him*. :-P) <<

>

>

> I recently took over running the Manhattan GRASP group. (We meet

> twice a month, and my second meeting is tonight.) I'm working on

> some issues, and I'll write more about that later. (My home computer is

> dead, and I only have internet access at work now.)

>

> Please email me privately ( or anyone else with information)

> about the particulars of this person's (or anyone else's) exclusion

> from a GRASP meeting.

>

> As I am now " they " in Manhattan, I can assure you it won't happen

> there. If you show up, , I'll throw a party.

>

> - Debra

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>What you're looking for is probably one of those groups for Parents Of.

>I'm sure there are a large number of Parents Of groups. Since I've

>dropped almost all of my Aspie groups, I don't have any to recommend.

ANI-L is not a Parents Of group, but it has parents-of in it. You

() can find out more by reading this page:

http://ani.autistics.org/ani-l.html As you will see, there is a way

for parents to post about parenting questions and get responses from

experienced parents (and also from autistics). All you have to do,

once you are a member of the list, is begin the subject line of each

post with PA: (followed by the topic of your post).

Jane

[Guest guest]

> I guess part of the problem lies in the desire by

> many to distingush between types of autistics (high functioning or

> low functioning, HFA or Asperger's, etc.) It might be worth

> pondering the social and political ramifications of word choice in

> this respect - both internally for our community and externally for

> our advocacy efforts. Words do, after all, shape thought, as the

> political world tends to show. What do you think about all that?

One of the things I work for as a self-advocate and parent is to bring

about the day when *all* of us on the spectrum can be referred to

simply as autistic, without it causing devaluation or cognitive

dissonance.

-- Phil

[Guest guest]

>

>

> One of the things I work for as a self-advocate and parent is to bring

> about the day when *all* of us on the spectrum can be referred to

> simply as autistic, without it causing devaluation ...

At meetings (e.g., Autreat), particular manifestations of autism were apparent.

e.g., one could recognize specific Asperger's traits. Nevertheless, it was

apparent that there was no clear dividing line in either functionality of the

person or in the nature of autism.

So the reality is very much in agreement with what you suggest.

- s

[Guest guest]

Stan wrote:

>At meetings (e.g., Autreat), particular manifestations of autism

>were apparent. e.g., one could recognize specific Asperger's

>traits. Nevertheless, it was apparent that there was no clear

>dividing line in either functionality of the person or in the nature

>of autism.

Just curious: What do you consider to be " specific Asperger's traits " ?

Jane