Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 What a great term " garbage can " ! It caused me to have a lightbulb moment -- that my nada and dishrag dad can indeed use me as their garbage can. To their eternal frustration, I've now made it clear I'm not here for that. -Kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Good morning Kyla: I love the way you put that, finding my new voice! That is exactly what I need to do! Boy, I think I need to hire you as my therapist Thanks again, Karla Re: my 9 yr old Good job! I would love to share what we talked about in my last group session that you might benefit from at this point: So many of us who were taught not to speak up -- thereby making us afraid to speak up in life -- need to learn to both speak up AND to let the chips fall without having a fit of nerves. I spoke up the other day during a spirited discussion in my book club. I was shaking inside -- I was strongly disagreeing with someone (something new for me!). Later, when we were all getting up to go home, that little voice inside me told me to apologize for getting everyone all riled up! For the first time, I IGNORED THAT VOICE. It was the old voice from my childhood that told me I wasn't entitled to an opinion or to speak my mind. My therapist told me we can rewrite or re-record over that voice with a NEW voice. You're finding your new voice. You have spoken your mind. GOOD!! You have taken steps to stop emotional blackmail of your child. GOOD!! Take a deep breath and steel yourself not to be afraid of what comes next. You don't have to hold the world up anymore and you have NOTHING to apologize for or be ashamed of. So tell the old fear to take a hike!! Let the chips fall. They're not ALL yours to pick up! Hang in there and tell yourself you're sick of being afraid of your mother's reactions to things. -Kyla ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 the thing about the garbage can is so weird, too. For all the unloading my mother did on me she has never reciprocated. It's bizarre. I can remember being about 8 years old and sitting up one night with her listening to her cry and go on about my father and how unhappy she was and all that, trying to comfort her, and then the very next day sitting at the kitchen table and apparently something happened (I can't remember exactly what, maybe my father and I had a disagreement) and she looks at me and glares and clenches her jaw and starts talking about my relationship with him and says 'you have hurt him SO MUCH', in a really hateful voice. It was bizarre, I remember being completely devastated by the 'switch' she made; first he was the villian, then the very next day, I, at all of 8 years old, was the villian. I wonder what that makes her...I wonder if it qualifies her for bpd. I really don't know where to 'place' her in terms of her behavior...I know I can't diagnose but her mental glitches are sometimes weirder than my father's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 <<I know I can't diagnose but her mental glitches are > sometimes weirder than my father's.>> BINGO! It constantly amazes me how these people ALWAYS find each other. In my parents' case, my mother is the BPD, and she's primarily a helpless waif. My dad was in need of a " damsel in distress " to make himself feel important and needed. Perfect match. They're both VERY caught up in a sick system -- and I'm the outsider. -Kyla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 OMG!! for all of you who read my posts yesterday regarding my mom and my 9yr old daughter, and the email i sent my mom, well, the lashing out has started. I am at work and 2 of my aunts have already left me a message, I refused to return their calls, so my husband called my father to find out what is going on. Well, she has been crying uncontrollably and is telling them its like I spit in her face! My hands are shaking and I started crying at work! I can't believe this. Re: my 9 yr old <<I know I can't diagnose but her mental glitches are > sometimes weirder than my father's.>> BINGO! It constantly amazes me how these people ALWAYS find each other. In my parents' case, my mother is the BPD, and she's primarily a helpless waif. My dad was in need of a " damsel in distress " to make himself feel important and needed. Perfect match. They're both VERY caught up in a sick system -- and I'm the outsider. -Kyla > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I had a friend with a somewhat similar situation whom I've let go of. She married and had a child, and once she had that kid, all I ever heard from her was complaining that she was a terrible mother, a terrible housekeeper, a terrible wife. She would say she never had enough time to do anything right or give enough. We went to the mall one time when her baby was a few months old. The baby was with Grandma, which should make everyone happy. But the whole time she talked about how guilty she felt. I suggested that she was allowed some time to herself and could maybe commit herself to 2 hours a week of guilt-free time, and she pooh-poohed that. (I think she was feeling like how could *I* know anything, cause *I* don't have kids.) Finally I said, " let's go home " because I was so sick of hearing it. Then she had less and less time for me for years, and she later admitted that she chose to spend her time with couples so she would not feel bad about being away from her husband. When I *would* talk to her on the phone, besides her going on about being a horrible person, she would never just talk on the phone. She had to be cleaning, multi-tasking, talking to her husband about housework. Okay, I'm rambling now, but my point is that it is very difficult to be in a healthy relationship with someone who is exhibiting unhealthy behaviors when you are getting better. My friend could not stop beating herself up, and the last thing I was going to do was demand more time from her, when she felt terrible about not seeing her family enough. So I checked out. Other than that (smile), she really was a very kind person and giving friend. Her mother, BTW, always reminded me of my own. I think she has her own nada to contend with. Her mother insisted that her first grandchild *couldn't* be HALF the dad's biologically. The child was *mostly* her daughter's. Very bizarre. > > <<To this day, I've lost a high school friend a year (on average) > due to my own growth and intolerance of histronic behavior....It > took a lot of healing for me to realize I couldn't 'fix' people and > that my perpetual instincts to do so were implanted there by nada.>> > > Oh, how I can relate! > > I am waking up to the fact that I will settle for scraps from > friendships -- and I'm sick of it and starting to change it. > > Case in point: Last labor day, I FINALLY got my " best " friend of 20 > years to come stay with us at our Lakehouse. I had been inviting > her since we bought it 18 months earlier. (That in itself was a bit > of a red flag that I ignored.) > > She, her husband and their kids (who match up with my kids really > well -- they all have a great time together) showed up and she > immediately starts on her " exit story " ......Long story short, they > stayed 24 hours, and I was left standing there as they pulled out of > the driveway thinking " What the hell was that? " > > My friend has such anxiety that she has developed Obsessive- > Compulsive Personality Disorder. She's addicted to order and > tasking. She fits all but one of the diagnostic criteria. > > She's cancelled 2 other things we had planned to do together -- and > after the last cancellation, she said in an apologetic e-mail " My > mom is always telling me 'friendship is a luxury'. She didn't even > realize what a hurtful thing that is to say. > > She's so caught up in tasking, etc. and she has lots of friends, old > and new, but I've noticed that these friendships are conducted at > HER direction, and interactions are ALWAYS at her house, so she can > fold laundry or work on household projects while you follow her > around like a puppy. > > After 25 years of close friendship, I decided I was sick of being > treated that way. As she was packing to leave the lake last Labor > Day, I summoned the courage to state my feelings. I said " I had no > idea you guys were only going to stay 24 hours -- I'm disappointed > you're leaving. " You know what my " best friend " said? She shrugged > her shoulders and changed the subject by saying " Look at that boat > over there! " > > She's in so deep with this disorder, I truly don't think anything > would have been gained by some big announcement that I was leaving > the friendship. I just politely declined her 2 invitations to come > have coffee and catch up (at HER HOUSE, of course), and I could tell > she felt guilty at how she left the lake. But, I was polite in my > declines, claimed thanks, but I couldn't make it and let it go. > > She's stopped inviting me over and we've both gone on with our > lives. I think on some level, she KNOWS that she's being a terrible > friend, but any spotlight on her behavior would threaten her tasking > and obsessing about control, and she's not ABOUT to figure out how > to give that up -- such is its grip on her. > > -Kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 (((((((((((((((Karla)))))))))))))))) Wow, she didn't waste anytime. Sorry that you are going through this. Stay strong. > > OMG!! for all of you who read my posts yesterday regarding my mom and my 9yr old daughter, and the email i sent my mom, well, the lashing out has started. I am at work and 2 of my aunts have already left me a message, I refused to return their calls, so my husband called my father to find out what is going on. Well, she has been crying uncontrollably and is telling them its like I spit in her face! > > My hands are shaking and I started crying at work! I can't believe this. > > > > Re: my 9 yr old > > > <<I know I can't diagnose but her mental glitches are > > sometimes weirder than my father's.>> > > BINGO! It constantly amazes me how these people ALWAYS find each > other. In my parents' case, my mother is the BPD, and she's primarily > a helpless waif. My dad was in need of a " damsel in distress " to make > himself feel important and needed. Perfect match. They're both VERY > caught up in a sick system -- and I'm the outsider. > > -Kyla > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I think you did the right thing for you and your family. That was a big step for you, and not an easy one--good job. I know it must be frustrating and annoying that she has already sent your extended family after you. I'm sure you will find lots of advice on this issue just by searching through the recent posts and archives, or by reading one of the myriad books we have all come to love and depend on. Hang in there, and just remember that it isn't your job (or your husband's, or your father's, or your aunts', for that matter) to manage your mother's feelings. That's her job. I know she's not well equipped for it at this point, so what you might say to her or those who try to make you feel guilty by telling you " she feels like you spit in her face " is this: " Wow, Mom, I can see that you're very upset. If you are unhappy with the way your relationships are going, you might consider talking to a professional about it. " And leave it at that. My mom used a different expression when she started realizing I was going to stand up for myself and stop giving her her way all the time: " , I feel like you just kicked me in the stomach. " One of the BPs quoted in SWOE said something similar. [Hmm, on a tangent, as I type that, I realize that at one point in time I actually DID kick her in the stomach...IN UTERO...] I'm sure it does feel hurtful to them when we come out and tell them we disapprove of their behavior--it's the black/white thinking--but essentially that kind of comment is manipulative. My mother--like yours--was trying to make me feel like I had done something wrong. I hadn't. Neither have you; in fact, I think you have done something very right. Hang in there. I think not answering calls from extended family is a fine idea right now. Do what you like, but realize that if they are calling you now, it is not because they want to hear your point of view but because they are enmeshed in your mother's games. Hugs to you and your family, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Weather the storm, dear. Weather the storm. Notice how she's contacted everybody but YOU directly. That tells you she's building her army because deep down she knows you have a point. Oh, and all the CRYING she's doing? Perfect opportunity for you to remain calm (good idea to NOT call the aunts back -- you aren't doing this by committee!!) and suggest, very empathetically, " I think mom may need some professional help -- she seems to be crying all the time. " If I were in your shoes, I'd remain calm and detached and slightly puzzled by why all these people are interested in you merely making sure your daughter isn't upset by your mother's crying. Practice your " puzzled " look -- as if you don't know why they would object to what you're doing?!! Stay with it -- ride it out......Ignore the noise and clatter she's drumming up. Remember to breathe. Get on with your day and your life. -Kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Yep -- that's definitely another " scraps " situation. -Kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 The thread about letting go of friends really hit a chord with me. I have a friend who had twins about 10 months ago. When she was pregnant, she had the typicl twin pregnancy complications (bed rest, etc.), but all in all, it wasn't a horrible pregnancy. I helped her a lot at the end...cleaning closets, the house, everything. I hosted her baby shower. She was in the hospital a week after having the twins and I visited twice during that week and then a number of times when she was off on maternity leave. I took them meals a couple of times. Mind you, I have a 12 year old and a 9 year old...so my own life isn't unbusy! I helped out with what I could, but when the babies were about 4 months old and she was still complaining incestantly about how hard things were, I backed off. Yes...she was working full time too...but her Mom is her daycare provider. The babies don't even have to leave her house (and in 10 months they have gone on very few visits anywhere!). My first thought had been to help more. But then I realized I had spent an entire Saturday afternoon listening to her complain. Sunday I would have to do all my own chores that didn't get done and then I'd be off to work on Monday morning. We still kept in touch, but she and her husband only came over one time in that first nine months and for only a little while (she only packed 2 bottles...one for each twin...so we know she wasn't planning on staying long!). Anyhow...we took gifts over for the twins for Christmas just after the new year. She was very cold and seemed angry during most of the visit. I went on-line to the twin website where I knew she sometimes posted and found this really long post about how her husbands family and her friends had been such a big disappointment and play very little role in her life now. I was really hurt. I e-mailed her my feelings and now she isn't speaking with me. At first I felt really bad...rethought what I should have said in the e-mail, etc. But now I feel like if I can't actually share my true feelings with a friend, then what kind of friendship is it anyway? It's a shame though. I would love to be able to spend time with her and her husband and the babies, but friendship is a two way street that travels in both directions. Live and learn I guess! > > I had a friend with a somewhat similar situation whom I've let go of. > She married and had a child, and once she had that kid, all I ever > heard from her was complaining that she was a terrible mother, a > terrible housekeeper, a terrible wife. She would say she never had > enough time to do anything right or give enough. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Karla- Hang in there! I am so sorry this is happening to you...you certainly don't deserve it. It does really suck when other people interject and fan the flames. I always try to remember that anyone who would buy into my NADAs version of reality is either 1) Clueless or 2) Dealing with the situation in a totally dysfunctional manner or BOTH! I have an Aunt who is a counselor who has never said to me that my NADAs emotional blackmail is inappropriate. My NADA spent well over a year telling lies about me behind my back. I can only imagine the stories she's told. It hurts on so many levels. But again, anyone who would buy into your NADAs line of crap needs some help in their own right. You behaved like an adult. You drew your boundaries. They had a temper tantrum when they were told they couldn't do exactly what they wanted. The whole bunch of them can have a time out! You deserve much, much better! JJFAN > > OMG!! for all of you who read my posts yesterday regarding my mom and my 9yr old daughter, and the email i sent my mom, well, the lashing out has started. I am at work and 2 of my aunts have already left me a message, I refused to return their calls, so my husband called my father to find out what is going on. Well, she has been crying uncontrollably and is telling them its like I spit in her face! > > My hands are shaking and I started crying at work! I can't believe this. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Ouch. I can see where that would hurt to find out, after all that effort and help, that she really only wants to gripe and be a victim. No attitude of gratitude. And you did a lot for her! And your story gave me some further insight into my lost friendship of 25 years -- she had twins, too! She always uses " being busy " as the reason why I never heard from her. And I was helping her all the time, too. It hurts to lose a friendship -- but I guess it would have been worse for us to have continued a false friendship. -Kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 You said it, JJFAN! I completely agree. You have to leave those opinions on the table, ignored. -kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 JJFan and VegDeanna, I can also identify with letting go of friends. Good topic!! Really got me to thinking. I recently had to bury a friendship. The only time we got along was when I catered to her; she had a migraine and needed a ride to the ER for her migraine cocktail, she needed help cleaning her house, she needed to borrow some money, she wanted to go to a conference and promised to pay me out of her stipend when we got back (never did), her teenage kids needed advice, she needed a shoulder to cry on when she and her husband were fighting, she needed a place to have birthday parties for her kids and my house had more space and seating than hers, etc. Anyway, as long as I was catering to her, I was the best friend in the whole world. I thought we were close and I treated her like I treat my sister. I figured she'd be there for me when I needed a friend and our friendship would someday be mutual. But she never would pick up the phone to call me to find out how I was, she never followed up when she knew I was having troubles, she conveniently developed migraines or got sick every time events were planned for my boys, she never showed up at drama productions that were important to my teenage son, she forgot my kids birthdays, she was rude to my husband. The final straw was when she blew up at my husband for planning a surprize birthday party for me. She was mad that he didn't consult her because the night he planned it for, she couldn't make it. She yelled at him and then stopped speaking to me altogether. Incredibly strained when you attend church together every Sunday, sing in a small choir (less than 15 people, we were the only two altos) right next to each other. Seriously, I'd try to talk with her and she'd literally ignore me and physically turn her back to me. I realize now that I fell into a friendship that mimicked my relationship with nada!! All the more reason to let this toxic relationship die. (Has anyone read the book " Why is it Always About You " by Sandy Hotchkiss?) You know, it's amazing. Reading everyone's experiences and thoughts has truly brought about a change in me recently. Thinking about my life and why I do the things I do, why I put up with things that most people wouldn't, why I act the way I do,...and finally, whether or not I have the power to change any given situation and exactly where I fit in to making a change. Nada programmed me to be a pleaser. It was easier to deny my emotions to keep the peace. She taught me to stuff my feelings and think that I have to be everyone's problem- solver at the expense of my own time, sanity, health and relationships because that's the pattern she instilled in me. I truly took on the weight of the world. Everyone needed to be happy and it was my job to see to it. Well I'm ready to stop choosing negative relationships and to let go of that inflated sense of perfectionistic responsibility. I don't want to be drawn to people that evoke all my old negative coping patterns just because that's what's eerily comfortable to me. I, too, want to be able to have my friends take my opinion into consideration just as I do theirs. I totally agree with the two way street, I want to pick friends that respect me for me, not for what I can give them or do for them. But that also requires work, thought and boundaries on my part and not being so approval-hungry that I lay out all my cards and open myself up to the wrong type of friendships. Just some thoughts,....thanks for listening. Kindest regards, Mercy > > > > I had a friend with a somewhat similar situation whom I've let go of. > > She married and had a child, and once she had that kid, all I ever > > heard from her was complaining that she was a terrible mother, a > > terrible housekeeper, a terrible wife. She would say she never had > > enough time to do anything right or give enough. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 I'm sorry you are having to deal with that. I can relate. It seems to me that folks like this live for situations like this...especially if someone put something in writing that they can pass around and say, 'look, look how they are treating me'. Sigh... I was thinking about your post earlier at work because I know how it feels to be put in that position of the villian, my theory has always been that because there were actual villians in my mother's childhood (and probably my fathers) that they never processed the stuff around it, so they are perpetually trying to put themselves in the victim role so they can get the sympathy and validation they never got as a child. It's really sad to me when people turn around and make their children the villian, that is such...there just aren't any words. I am new to this board and to the bpd stuff so I don't know all the lingo yet, but one thing that has helped me over the years is the Karpman Drama Triangle, where the three points are victim, rescuer, persecutor. People who live on the victim corner of the triangle, as a way of life, only relate to others as either rescuers or perpetrators, and if you aren't willing to do the rescuing then guess what, there is only one corner left on the triangle, lol. I think what reading and posting here has given me is the knowledge that this is a mental health disorder and that people are conditioned to behave this way because of things that have nothing to do with me...because for years I had all this knowledge, about things like the drama triangle, and I would actually point it out to my family and try to enlighten them, to no avail, needless to say. Now I am seeing that because their destructiveness doesn't hurt them in a way that matters to them, they have no motivation to change and the only thing I can do is protect myself, or at least try. One thing that hit me as I was thinking about this this morning is that for all their posturing like I am the 'villain' in my family, and have 'hurt' them, the truth is that I didn't reject my family. It was them that rejected me. They don't even have any concept of what they missed, of the person that I really am inside, because they are too busy trying to make me into one of those stand- up cardboard cutouts that they can project onto and work through their issues with. The human being that I really am is lost to them. I feel like I have come close to being lost to myself, by giving them the 'panic' reaction that they want when they play drama triangle games. Sorry this is such a long response. I can really relate to the feelings and the emotional reaction that you are describing because I've been there. I want to learn how to keep reacting emotionally when I'm put on the 'persecutor corner' so to speak, by my family. I just want to stay calm. I don't want to give them that anymore. I want them to keep their sickness to themselves, to brush it off when it 'gets on' me. I think you are going a very honorable thing in trying to protect your child. It's your duty as a parent. Anyone worthy of being in your life should understand that. If they don't understand why you can't allow someone dump their adult emotions all over your nine-year old then, well, that is their problem. > > OMG!! for all of you who read my posts yesterday regarding my mom and my 9yr old daughter, and the email i sent my mom, well, the lashing out has started. I am at work and 2 of my aunts have already left me a message, I refused to return their calls, so my husband called my father to find out what is going on. Well, she has been crying uncontrollably and is telling them its like I spit in her face! > > My hands are shaking and I started crying at work! I can't believe this. > > > > Re: my 9 yr old > > > <<I know I can't diagnose but her mental glitches are > > sometimes weirder than my father's.>> > > BINGO! It constantly amazes me how these people ALWAYS find each > other. In my parents' case, my mother is the BPD, and she's primarily > a helpless waif. My dad was in need of a " damsel in distress " to make > himself feel important and needed. Perfect match. They're both VERY > caught up in a sick system -- and I'm the outsider. > > -Kyla > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _______________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php? category=shopping > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Another thing I was thinking of, like what other people have said, is you can say " yes, and she was doing that to my child, and my child is not mature enough to be exposed to that kind of behavior in an adult " . If she is throwing a fit like this then that should be enough to validate your reasons for not wanting your 9 year old exposed to it. > > Well, she > has been crying uncontrollably and is telling them its like I spit > in her face! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Mayalisa, I must say, this was an absolutely elegant and poignant post! You seem to have gotten your mind around BPD, its effects on KOs, persectuor/ rescuer/ victim relationships, developing coping skills etc. so quickly!! The tone of this e-mail is different from your first few, I'm quite impressed with how quickly you seem to be unraveling and understanding your years of abuse and trauma. I can relate to the feeling that they need us to be cardboard cutouts, they never try to know us for what/ who we are--our identity formation is shakier (and maybe later?) in its emergence than as is the case with other children who've received consistency, security, unconditional love and support from their parents throughout their lives because they use us up (like a bar of soap, as people on here have said) until we're old enough to realize we CAN and SHOULD live for ourselves, not them! I liked the bit where you said you'd like to keep the emotional spatter from 'getting' on you! What a funny and apt image. It can be hard to resign ourselves to the idea that we will never be able to explain to them what is so clear to us, I gave up on trying to be honest with my nada years ago. Whenvever I try to talk about my feelings, she is very dismissive, it's futile. She's only going to understand her Oz-colored view of reality and there is nothing I can ever say that will reach her. mayalisa728 wrote: I'm sorry you are having to deal with that. I can relate. It seems to me that folks like this live for situations like this...especially if someone put something in writing that they can pass around and say, 'look, look how they are treating me'. Sigh... I was thinking about your post earlier at work because I know how it feels to be put in that position of the villian, my theory has always been that because there were actual villians in my mother's childhood (and probably my fathers) that they never processed the stuff around it, so they are perpetually trying to put themselves in the victim role so they can get the sympathy and validation they never got as a child. It's really sad to me when people turn around and make their children the villian, that is such...there just aren't any words. I am new to this board and to the bpd stuff so I don't know all the lingo yet, but one thing that has helped me over the years is the Karpman Drama Triangle, where the three points are victim, rescuer, persecutor. People who live on the victim corner of the triangle, as a way of life, only relate to others as either rescuers or perpetrators, and if you aren't willing to do the rescuing then guess what, there is only one corner left on the triangle, lol. I think what reading and posting here has given me is the knowledge that this is a mental health disorder and that people are conditioned to behave this way because of things that have nothing to do with me...because for years I had all this knowledge, about things like the drama triangle, and I would actually point it out to my family and try to enlighten them, to no avail, needless to say. Now I am seeing that because their destructiveness doesn't hurt them in a way that matters to them, they have no motivation to change and the only thing I can do is protect myself, or at least try. One thing that hit me as I was thinking about this this morning is that for all their posturing like I am the 'villain' in my family, and have 'hurt' them, the truth is that I didn't reject my family. It was them that rejected me. They don't even have any concept of what they missed, of the person that I really am inside, because they are too busy trying to make me into one of those stand- up cardboard cutouts that they can project onto and work through their issues with. The human being that I really am is lost to them. I feel like I have come close to being lost to myself, by giving them the 'panic' reaction that they want when they play drama triangle games. Sorry this is such a long response. I can really relate to the feelings and the emotional reaction that you are describing because I've been there. I want to learn how to keep reacting emotionally when I'm put on the 'persecutor corner' so to speak, by my family. I just want to stay calm. I don't want to give them that anymore. I want them to keep their sickness to themselves, to brush it off when it 'gets on' me. I think you are going a very honorable thing in trying to protect your child. It's your duty as a parent. Anyone worthy of being in your life should understand that. If they don't understand why you can't allow someone dump their adult emotions all over your nine-year old then, well, that is their problem. > > OMG!! for all of you who read my posts yesterday regarding my mom and my 9yr old daughter, and the email i sent my mom, well, the lashing out has started. I am at work and 2 of my aunts have already left me a message, I refused to return their calls, so my husband called my father to find out what is going on. Well, she has been crying uncontrollably and is telling them its like I spit in her face! > > My hands are shaking and I started crying at work! I can't believe this. > > > > Re: my 9 yr old > > > <<I know I can't diagnose but her mental glitches are > > sometimes weirder than my father's.>> > > BINGO! It constantly amazes me how these people ALWAYS find each > other. In my parents' case, my mother is the BPD, and she's primarily > a helpless waif. My dad was in need of a " damsel in distress " to make > himself feel important and needed. Perfect match. They're both VERY > caught up in a sick system -- and I'm the outsider. > > -Kyla > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ _______________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php? category=shopping > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Very good point! Makes you want to say " Hey, who exactly is the 9 year old here? " -Kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 <<Nada programmed me to be a pleaser. It was easier to deny my emotions to keep the peace. She taught me to stuff my feelings and think that I have to be everyone's problem-solver at the expense of my own time, sanity, health and relationships because that's the pattern she instilled in me. I truly took on the weight of the world. Everyone needed to be happy and it was my job to see to it. Well I'm ready to stop choosing negative relationships and to let go of that inflated sense of perfectionistic responsibility. I don't want to be drawn to people that evoke all my old negative coping patterns just because that's what's eerily comfortable to me. I, too, want to be able to have my friends take my opinion into consideration just as I do theirs. I totally agree with the two way street, I want to pick friends that respect me for me, not for what I can give them or do for them. But that also requires work, thought and boundaries on my part and not being so approval-hungry that I lay out all my cards and open myself up to the wrong type of friendships.>> Brilliant summation! It really explains why we cater to friendships that don't give back! It's like we've been trained to be emotional zombies to avoid asking ourselves " What the hell am I doing this for? " We really need to get back in touch with our inner feelings and reactions, instead of being so quick to bury them. I haven't read " Why is it always about you? " by Sandy Hotchkiss, but I've always wanted to. I think my obsessive-compulsive personality disorder friend was able to see helping me if it involved tasks -- and, honestly, in our past days, she would come over and help me move furniture (although it was always her idea!), and help me prepare for the occasional party, etc. But, after the Labor Day fiasco, I realized that just giving me her time was all I wanted from her -- if she could just stop and look at that as a " friendship task " , maybe she could be comfortable doing it. But, alas, she has such an anxiety attack when she's away from her home and the comfort of getting things done, she just can't stand it. Despite our friendship of 25 years, she just couldn't give me her time. -Kyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 > > Mayalisa, > > I must say, this was an absolutely elegant and poignant post! You seem to have gotten your mind around BPD, its effects on KOs, persectuor/ rescuer/ victim relationships, developing coping skills etc. so quickly!! The tone of this e-mail is different from your first few, I'm quite impressed with how quickly you seem to be unraveling and understanding your years of abuse and trauma. .... > It can be hard to resign ourselves to the idea that we will never be able to explain to them what is so clear to us, I gave up on trying to be honest with my nada years ago. Whenvever I try to talk about my feelings, she is very dismissive, it's futile. She's only going to understand her Oz-colored view of reality and there is nothing I can ever say that will reach her. > Thanks very much. I feel like this is a piece of the puzzle that I have been missing for a while. I've been twelves-step oriented since I got into recovery in '92 but this feels different. I was always taught to bring it back to me and look at my behavior and I think after all this time it's okay for me to say, you know, this isn't 'me'; this is someone else's mental illness, and like a friend of mine once said, 'naming isn't blaming'. I really don't feel like I have a much of a grasp on this stuff yet, I just know when I read it I keep having those 'light-bulb' moments. Every thing seems to fit. The drama triangle is something I've known about for years...I just feel stupid now when I look back at how many times I've explained something like this to my family and yet their behaviors don't change. It really helped me to read somewhere on the bpd central site that those behaviors *are* normal, for a child, someone whose development has been arrested. I sought help because my coping mechanisms got to painful for me. I guess theirs don't hurt them as bad, no matter how badly they may hurt me. I need to get the 'eggshell's book' as soon as I have some extra cash, and learn the lingo because everything I've learned here seems so relevant. Every day I have an 'aha' moment; tonight relatives came over and I was trying to talk to one of them and my dad kept interrupting me and directing the conversation back to himself...it's pretty clear that he doesn't want any of the extended family to get to know me or like me. He is actually a very talented artist; he can paint incredible portraits, and the lady was there to pick up a portrait of her son he had done. And he just turned on the charm, just like everyone says bpd's do publicly. Yet he was doing that 'gatekeeper' behavior, tonight, and I realize he does that alot. As does my sister, I guess it's where she learned it from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 The gift of time. That's it. The one thing that nada can't give me. That's what's become invaluable in my adult 'chosen' relationships. Time. I'm so sorry your friend has become lost in OCD behavior. I truly feel for you, Kyla. Hugs, Mercy > > <<Nada programmed me to be a pleaser. It was easier to deny my > emotions to keep the peace. She taught me to stuff my feelings and > think that I have to be everyone's problem-solver at the expense of > my own time, sanity, health and relationships because that's the > pattern she instilled in me. I truly took on the weight of the > world. Everyone needed to be happy and it was my job to see to it. > Well I'm ready to stop choosing negative relationships and to let go > of that inflated sense of perfectionistic responsibility. I don't > want to be drawn to people that evoke all my old negative coping > patterns just because that's what's eerily comfortable to me. I, > too, want to be able to have my friends take my opinion into > consideration just as I do theirs. I totally agree with the two way > street, I want to pick friends that respect me for me, not for what > I can give them or do for them. But that also requires work, thought > and boundaries on my part and not being so approval-hungry that I > lay out all my cards and open myself up to the wrong type of > friendships.>> > > Brilliant summation! It really explains why we cater to friendships > that don't give back! It's like we've been trained to be emotional > zombies to avoid asking ourselves " What the hell am I doing this > for? " We really need to get back in touch with our inner feelings > and reactions, instead of being so quick to bury them. > > I haven't read " Why is it always about you? " by Sandy Hotchkiss, but > I've always wanted to. > > I think my obsessive-compulsive personality disorder friend was able > to see helping me if it involved tasks -- and, honestly, in our past > days, she would come over and help me move furniture (although it > was always her idea!), and help me prepare for the occasional party, > etc. > > But, after the Labor Day fiasco, I realized that just giving me her > time was all I wanted from her -- if she could just stop and look at > that as a " friendship task " , maybe she could be comfortable doing > it. But, alas, she has such an anxiety attack when she's away from > her home and the comfort of getting things done, she just can't > stand it. Despite our friendship of 25 years, she just couldn't > give me her time. > > -Kyla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I want to thank all of you who responded to my post. I had a 3 day weekend and stayed off the computer and emails! My husband was great, he kep me occupied all weekend and we did fun things to keep my mind off what happened on Friday. I know I need to learn to be stronger and keep my ground in what I believe is correct in order to protect myself and my family. I have come to the conclusion that this may mean me having to keep a distance from all of them, at least for now. I am tired of being weak and scared! I am so glad I found this post and thankful for all of you. You all have such great advice for all of us. It really does help! Mayalisa, I love your example of the triangle. That really helped to understand what my mom is doing, and Kyla, you hit it right on , who is acting like a 9 year old? (ha-ha) Have a great day all of you, Karla Re: my 9 yr old > > > <<I know I can't diagnose but her mental glitches are > > sometimes weirder than my father's.>> > > BINGO! It constantly amazes me how these people ALWAYS find each > other. In my parents' case, my mother is the BPD, and she's primarily > a helpless waif. My dad was in need of a " damsel in distress " to make > himself feel important and needed. Perfect match. They're both VERY > caught up in a sick system -- and I'm the outsider. > > -Kyla > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ ____________ ___ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php? category=shopping > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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