Re: Split White or Black - informal poll

[Guest guest]

I remember in my late teens I learned a few ways to get my nada to stop from her

raging. When she was starting in on one of her raging episodes, I would either

apologize (even if I knew I wasn't wrong, at least it would shut her up), or

else I would agree with what she was saying. That always made her shut up.

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: drlingirl@...: Wed, 31 Oct

2007 21:54:09 +0000Subject: Re: Split White or Black -

informal poll

Kyla,My sister stands up to our nada daily, and has had to be mean to her at

times.......she has to do this to live so close by, and it works for her. She

still is needy and loves nada...yada, yada, yada. Where I was and I am the wimp.

No more though ;0)I agree with a post'r who said it was better to be black than

white....it is so much easier to let go....drlingirl> > >> > > It seems that a KO's experience of the BP

parent is a lot > > different > > > depending on whether you were mostly split

white or black or > > > somewhere in between. I am curious where most of us on

this > board > > > stand (mostly white, mostly black or shift back and forth)

and > > what > > > you think of it.> > > > > > I've been consistently split

black by nada my whole life. I > have > > one > > > memory where, for some

unknown reason, I was briefly split > white. > > It > > > was weird. > > > > > >

I was in my mid-20s and pursuing a career in law and politics. > > > Casting had

begun for the Gone with the Wind prequel or sequel. > > Nada > > > was convinced

that I would make the perfect Scarlett O'Hara. I > > can > > > safely tell you

that this is not the case - I had no acting > > > experience (or desire to

pursue that career) nor do I look like > > > Scarlett aside from having dark

hair. (Besides my natural > > > disposition is that of the cranky, black haired

girl, not a > > charming > > > southern belle . During our telephone

conversation, Nada just > > kept > > > going on and on in the weirdest voice

about how perfect I would > be > > > for the role and insisting that I try out

for the part. > > > > > > As a split black, I can tell you what you probably

already know -> > > it > > > hurts to feel like your own mother hates you (aside

from brief > > > delusions that you're Scarlett O'Hara). But, it also seems like

> > it's > > > easier to detach from nada - split whites seem to have more > >

problems > > > with enmeshment which was never an issue for me. > > > > > >

What's your story? What are your thoughts?> > >> >>

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[Guest guest]

,

Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm a technical writer, but I

also keep a blog in my spare time. I've been kind of lax about my blog

lately--old fears of inadequacy creeping back. Thank you so much for

appreciating my writing. It helps to remind me that I ought to keep at it.

qwerty

>

> Qwerty,I just have to tell you that I've bookmarked this post of

> yours-it's one of the most brilliant summations of being a KO that I

> have read anywhere.No kidding,I sat here and applauded you after I

> read it.You must be a writer-do you write elsewhere,aside from on

> here? You express your ideas with rare talent and accuracy.I don't

> think your rubber band ball metaphor is silly at all-I think it's

> very apt.It's actually a perfect image,rubber bands that stretch and

> can break if enough force is applied and yet in a rubber band

> ball,there are so many of them,like you said,binding our

> movements.Great metaphor! Bravo for hitting the bull's eye in

> practically every sentence of your post-it really is brilliantly done-

> wow!!!!

[Guest guest]

>

Hey MD,

I feel the same way sometimes. Sometimes I need to grieve, sometimes

I feel like I'm done grieving. It changes, I dunno.

Do you like hot chocolate? I find myself wanting to make some and

invite you over so we can tell our stories. I've never been able to

cry before with someone else who really understood ... anyway, I

sure know what you mean.

- April

> Hi April

>

> Under the circumstances, I think the rebel route was the best one

to

> take in terms of protecting myself. Sometimes it just makes me

sad

> that I had to choose that route. Why couldn't I have had a loving

> mother and not be forced into this terrible choice?

>

> I know there's nothing I can do about it and I've accepted my

fate.

> Sometimes I worry about myself that I put on too much of a brave

face.

> It's good to feel the sadness to a certain degree instead of just

being

> numb, angry or shut down.

>

> Cheers MD

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

I like the way you came " stamping your boots " through this post. LOL

I hope I didn't invalidate anyone's experience with my opinion about

whether any nadas actually hate their kids.

I see my nada as so limited and confused that she can't comprehend

that other people are real people too. She hates them, she loves,

them, she hates them ... what's for dinner? Lies, physical

brutality, soul-crushing statements and " rules " to make your split-

black daughter follow ... and family photos, gifts under the tree,

smiles when grandma comes over. What's the difference in her limited

mind?

The only way I can really understand it is to see her as

developmentally unable to give and receive love (or hate). That's

just my experience though. This illness is too horrid to generalize,

and I hope I didn't offend by anything I said.

- April

> > >

> > > Hi Recovering Non-BP

> > >

> > > I had this sense, while reading your post, of fada feeding you

to

> > the

> > > lion so he wouldn't get eaten. Sorry if that is too harsh.

It

> > just

> > > seems like he was trying to protect himself under the guise of

> > > the " son should love his mother " bs.

> > >

> > > What struck me about your post is that your impulse was

entirely

> > > normal - a child should want and seek love and approval from

its

> > > mother. You shouldn't feel bad for desiring that - it's not

your

> > > fault that nada wasn't able to perform her end of the deal.

> > >

> > > I took the rebel route from an early age - it has its

drawbacks.

> > My

> > > natural reaction seemed to be " eff you nada " if you aren't

going

> > to

> > > love me. But in large part that was just an act. Of course I

> > wanted

> > > her love and approval and still sought it (and, of course,

didn't

> > > receive it) well into adulthood when I knew better.

> > >

> > > Also, how " normal " is it to pretend to accept the fact that

your

> > > mother hates you and just move on? Per my other posts, I'm

> > dealing

> > > with this now that nada had a heart attack. I feel like I've

> > already

> > > grieved her as if she has died, if she actually dies now what

> does

> > it

> > > matter. But, how healthy is my emotional deadness? It feels

> > better

> > > than being vulnerable to her nastiness, but it still doesn't

feel

> > > good.

> > >

> > > Final thought - having a nada is like living with a super

> powerful

> > > nuclear reactor emitting toxic rays. Our exposure to the rays

> > > depends on the family situation. My dad didn't shield me from

> her

> > > but he didn't use me as a shield from her either. And, my

three

> > > brothers absorbed a lot of the toxicity as well. In some

sense I

> > > was " lucky " that my exposure was mitigated by these factors.

> > >

> > > It sounds like you got a full blast of toxic BP radiation your

> > whole

> > > life. I'm so sorry that you were treated this way and am

sending

> > you

> > > a big electronic hug. Good for you for surviving this and

> > learning

> > > to cope with it in a positive manner.

> > >

> > > MD

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi April

Yeah, it does make a huge difference, even just " talking " though the

board, to relate to people who have been there. I've had a lot of

generous friends, including DH, who have listened to me vent endlessly

over the years. I appreciate their patience, but to some extent they

can never really " get it " because they haven't lived it.

Or they pity me or look at me with horror when I tell them how she's

treated me, which makes me feel weird.

Clinking my hot chocolate mug right back at ya!

MD

[Guest guest]

Hey April.Just speaking for myself-you didn't offend me at all.Not at

all! Nor did I feel invalidated by your opinion-that's what's great

about this board,how everyone else's opinions help us to see our own

opinions with a bit more clarity.I do struggle,still,with questions

of " She hates me/she hates me not " ...I'm still trying to sort it all

out,there are so many levels to this,at least to my mind .

I really enjoyed reading your post-the paragraph you wrote about

seeing your nada as 'so limited and confused that she can't

comprehend that other people are real people too " is very good.You've

basically described the emotional state of a very young child.I also

see my nada as " developmentally unable to give or receive love " -I

think she's frozen at the " individuation " stage,ages about 2-4 and

that she never progressed through it to the next developmental

stage.She doesn't know where she lets off and others begin! In a

small child,this can be endearing but in an adult it's very

disconcerting.

I appreciate your input about a nada also not knowing how to give or

receive " hate " .I think I see where you're coming from.Little children

lack the life experience to truly hate the way an adult can,although

they might scream and shout, " I hate you! " ,they have no conception of

the potential damaging impact or meaning of such a statement.It's

just hard for me to reconcile the idea that my nada is

developmentally " frozen " at a primitive stage with the fact that she

is physically an adult.

I guess as an non-BPD,it's impossible for me to really get inside

her head.I can't imagine lacking self control to the extent of

saying/doing some of the terrible things she's said and done to me,I

just can't even fathom her motivation for doing so.

But " what's the difference in her limited mind " is a very perceptive

point of view.Thank you for sharing that-it's something I need to

consider more carefully...

-

> > > >

> > > > Hi Recovering Non-BP

> > > >

> > > > I had this sense, while reading your post, of fada feeding

you

> to

> > > the

> > > > lion so he wouldn't get eaten. Sorry if that is too harsh.

> It

> > > just

> > > > seems like he was trying to protect himself under the guise

of

> > > > the " son should love his mother " bs.

> > > >

> > > > What struck me about your post is that your impulse was

> entirely

> > > > normal - a child should want and seek love and approval from

> its

> > > > mother. You shouldn't feel bad for desiring that - it's not

> your

> > > > fault that nada wasn't able to perform her end of the deal.

> > > >

> > > > I took the rebel route from an early age - it has its

> drawbacks.

> > > My

> > > > natural reaction seemed to be " eff you nada " if you aren't

> going

> > > to

> > > > love me. But in large part that was just an act. Of course

I

> > > wanted

> > > > her love and approval and still sought it (and, of course,

> didn't

> > > > receive it) well into adulthood when I knew better.

> > > >

> > > > Also, how " normal " is it to pretend to accept the fact that

> your

> > > > mother hates you and just move on? Per my other posts, I'm

> > > dealing

> > > > with this now that nada had a heart attack. I feel like I've

> > > already

> > > > grieved her as if she has died, if she actually dies now what

> > does

> > > it

> > > > matter. But, how healthy is my emotional deadness? It feels

> > > better

> > > > than being vulnerable to her nastiness, but it still doesn't

> feel

> > > > good.

> > > >

> > > > Final thought - having a nada is like living with a super

> > powerful

> > > > nuclear reactor emitting toxic rays. Our exposure to the

rays

> > > > depends on the family situation. My dad didn't shield me

from

> > her

> > > > but he didn't use me as a shield from her either. And, my

> three

> > > > brothers absorbed a lot of the toxicity as well. In some

> sense I

> > > > was " lucky " that my exposure was mitigated by these factors.

> > > >

> > > > It sounds like you got a full blast of toxic BP radiation

your

> > > whole

> > > > life. I'm so sorry that you were treated this way and am

> sending

> > > you

> > > > a big electronic hug. Good for you for surviving this and

> > > learning

> > > > to cope with it in a positive manner.

> > > >

> > > > MD

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just remember,Qwerty,it's only the good writers who suffer from fears

of inadequacy...the bad ones all think they're incredible...no,they

KNOW that they are and so they rarely edit or polish their

thoughts.The world is full of bad writers who never agonize-the only

ones who have ever written anything worthwhile are the ones who

doubted themselves so much they almost didn't write at all...Please

do keep at it.I've been a voracious reader since I was a kid and I'm

telling you sincerely that you have that quality good writers

have:accuracy.It sounds so simple but it's actually very rare.It's

something a writer either has or they don't.You have IT!

- (who after reading " Lady With Lapdog " has had a hopeless

crush on Anton Chekhov since she was thirteen ...)

> >

> > Qwerty,I just have to tell you that I've bookmarked this post of

> > yours-it's one of the most brilliant summations of being a KO

that I

> > have read anywhere.No kidding,I sat here and applauded you after

I

> > read it.You must be a writer-do you write elsewhere,aside from on

> > here? You express your ideas with rare talent and accuracy.I

don't

> > think your rubber band ball metaphor is silly at all-I think it's

> > very apt.It's actually a perfect image,rubber bands that stretch

and

> > can break if enough force is applied and yet in a rubber band

> > ball,there are so many of them,like you said,binding our

> > movements.Great metaphor! Bravo for hitting the bull's eye in

> > practically every sentence of your post-it really is brilliantly

done-

> > wow!!!!

>