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Sounds like a fine idea to me!

> > > >

> > > > Treatment is a good thing... " CURE " has such negative connotations

> > > > that I find it totally and outrageously demeaning and

> condescedning.

> > >

> >

>

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That could be much more difficult than you think, and I'm speaking as

one who has had to fight alone for ages, especially against " experts " .

> >

> > Good thing I don't let them taint me and fight against them being

> > allowed to taint others, then.

>

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When people talk of fixing someone's genes mutations, that reminds me

a bit too much of Nazi Germany, Hitler & Mengele and ethnic cleansing.

I am all for enhancing gifts, but I am not for taking away the very

thing(s) that might bring those gifts in the first place. And that's

not what cure means just to me - it's what cure means to many people.

I also was giving my own point of view, not speaking for others,

although others have an alarming tendency at times to speak for me, at

me, and around me rather than to me. :-)

> >

> > Pro-cure means abolishing the " curse " that " kidnaps " children and

> > holds families " hostage. " Anti-cure is not anti-treatment - treat my

> > symptoms, but by no means rob me of my gifts.

>

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That's the ultimate goal, isn't it?

>

>

> In a message dated 2/3/08 7:06:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> bubbetta@... writes:

>

> Let's figure out a way to all be on the same side so we can all put our

> energy into helping the kids instead of fighting one another.

>

>

> i am so glad that we are asking what words mean instead of yelling.

i think

> this is some wonderful progress and will help us 'to be on the same

side'

> doing all we can for our kids :)

> eric abbys dad

>

>

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL

Music.

>

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

> 48)

>

>

>

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Thank you - I just wish these words weren't even necessary...

>

>

> In a message dated 2/3/08 2:50:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> sharisajoy@... writes:

>

> Pro-cure means abolishing the " curse " that " kidnaps " children and

> holds families " hostage. " Anti-cure is not anti-treatment - treat my

> symptoms, but by no means rob me of my gifts.

>

>

>

> excellent use of words.

> Abby's dad

>

>

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL

Music.

>

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

> 48)

>

>

>

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Thank you - I just wish these words weren't even necessary...

>

>

> In a message dated 2/3/08 2:50:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> sharisajoy@... writes:

>

> Pro-cure means abolishing the " curse " that " kidnaps " children and

> holds families " hostage. " Anti-cure is not anti-treatment - treat my

> symptoms, but by no means rob me of my gifts.

>

>

>

> excellent use of words.

> Abby's dad

>

>

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL

Music.

>

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

> 48)

>

>

>

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As one whose picture has been painted and tainted with the

brushstrokes of prejudice and discrimination, I can only agree.

>

>

> In a message dated 2/3/08 11:18:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> fightingautism@... writes:

>

> Some researchers in

> the autism community have had a horribly untrue picture painted about

> them, just as people with autism often get horribly untrue pictures

> painted about them.

>

>

> this is truly difficult.

> eric abbys dad

>

>

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL

Music.

>

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

> 48)

>

>

>

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As one whose picture has been painted and tainted with the

brushstrokes of prejudice and discrimination, I can only agree.

>

>

> In a message dated 2/3/08 11:18:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> fightingautism@... writes:

>

> Some researchers in

> the autism community have had a horribly untrue picture painted about

> them, just as people with autism often get horribly untrue pictures

> painted about them.

>

>

> this is truly difficult.

> eric abbys dad

>

>

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL

Music.

>

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

> 48)

>

>

>

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Sondra,

Although that's sadly true, we must never stop trying to co-exist

peacefully with other people rather than trying to destroy the planet

we all share.

>

> there is not ever going to be a way to express teh multiple views on

> autism because it varies as much as the religions of this world, as the

> cultures of this world and so there is never going to be of a complete

> accepatance of others views just as there will never be of one religion

> or belief system for the entire world because people will be to cling

> to their own belief system no matter what the words or terminology is

> to be.

> Sondra

>

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Sondra,

Although that's sadly true, we must never stop trying to co-exist

peacefully with other people rather than trying to destroy the planet

we all share.

>

> there is not ever going to be a way to express teh multiple views on

> autism because it varies as much as the religions of this world, as the

> cultures of this world and so there is never going to be of a complete

> accepatance of others views just as there will never be of one religion

> or belief system for the entire world because people will be to cling

> to their own belief system no matter what the words or terminology is

> to be.

> Sondra

>

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I am certain some will view this as heresy, and some will not, but I can not

help but ask that people consider something.

Many people tell me, it must be very difficult to have an autistic child. She

is very lucky to have you as a father. WRONG! I know that every day is a

struggle for her, but in reality, I am the one who is lucky to have her. She

has a perception about life that I don't even begin to understand. She has an

intellect that never ceases trying to learn. At an age when most girls begin to

become click oriented, she will take the time to teach me how to be a kid again.

Although she can be very violent, she can be equally compasionate.

Treat the symptoms, of course, but let's fully understand what we are dealing

with before we try to genetically abolish it. You can only understand the

sunshine because it also rains.

Sharisa Joy Kochmeister wrote:

I support researchers who seek to treat people's symptoms as symptoms

of something. I don't support those who want to cleanse the race of

people with autism... as for my own stance, it is my stance and mine

alone - if people agree with me, fine; if not, also fine... but I will

still speak out as someone who values freedom of speech even more

after I spent almost 12 years with no way to communicate.

> >

> > Let's figure out a way to all be on the same side so we can all

put our

> > energy into helping the kids instead of fighting one another. The

more

> > I read the words of the anti-cure " camps " , the more I sense that a

large

> > proportion of both sides actually AGREE, except that the " camps " are

> > using radically different terminology, and it's the terminology that

> > needs to be updated and agreed upon.

>

---------------------------------

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My father who has always felt the same way you do and I applaud you

and tell you that you're lucky to have each other!

Sharisa Joy

> > >

> > > Let's figure out a way to all be on the same side so we can all

> put our

> > > energy into helping the kids instead of fighting one another. The

> more

> > > I read the words of the anti-cure " camps " , the more I sense that a

> large

> > > proportion of both sides actually AGREE, except that the " camps " are

> > > using radically different terminology, and it's the terminology that

> > > needs to be updated and agreed upon.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.

Try it now.

>

>

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I to agree we must not stop trying but was saying that this is of the

norms there is of too many voices and too many views and perceptions

for it to ever become really unified as a one view or one voice or

perceptions.

Some insist that ALL autism is vaccine realted.

Then some will say ALL autism is environmental

Then some say lets CURE them ALL

And some say dont CURE ME

And some see it as a curese from God

And some see it as a blessing from God

Some say autism = retardation

Some see those on spectrum as little geniuses

Some insiste teh diet is of the only way

Others dispute it

Some say ABA is the only way

Others say NO RDI is?

Some say no Biromedical interventions are

Some say Autism does not exist it is of just a catch all for everyone

who is different

Some say those with aspergers or HFA are not of autism but just

acting rude and spoiled

Some say those with real autism are non verbal creatures who do not

interact, relate and self stim in isolates states of being

So you see how complex it is of to get a unified voice when there is

of too much ideas out there to change... and no matter the voice many

will not let go of their own to expand the learning of their own

beings to see others points of view.

But if we stay silent we do not allow a differnet perspective to be

explored, if we stay silent we do not build our own ideas and

thinking to expand it, if we stay silent we subcomb to the full

beliefs of others so in true Sharisa we cant stay silent this is of

true///

Sondra

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I to wanted to add the sunshine and rain.... Her in the USA we

take for granted the snow.... some see it as a disaster, some enjoy

it and love to do sports and or play in it, some love the beauty that

the snow can bring but regardless each winter many of the states know

it will snow to some extent......

But those who never ever get snow like Cuba only can imagine snow...

the one author of a book titled Waiting for Snow in Havanna tells of

hims life as a cuban and then later as an exiled boy to america. he

comes to say that the most oppressed countries and poor contries are

those who have no snow.... because snow means seasons which means

crops and foods of variety and it means prosperity to hae of the

wealth of food always available ....

So in autism those who never get to experience it never know what it

is of truely like.... they can only imagine of it.... But if the

family is of healthy they will be prosporous in diversity and

understand of hte unique beauty that autism can bring for their

families. But some days just like old snow it needs to be cleaned up

and it gets sloshy and dirty and does not hold the beauty again until

the next snow fall. that is because autism or not NO one person ever

holds perfection and reflects only positive emotions, healthy

thinking, compassions and such.... because some days they do reflect

like old snow.... but because we have experienced the beauty of the

new snow we can anticipate those days with fair expectations.

Just my rambling this day.

Sondra

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Thank you Sondra. I never meant to indicate that no days had their bad sides,

i.e. the waiting to see who your child bit or kicked today. How many times she

was physically hauled out of class to an isolation room, and how many times I

get hit or kicked when she melts down. What I do mean to say is I will take it

all for the privilage of having my daughter. She is the single greatest moment

in my life.

sondra wrote: I to wanted to add the

sunshine and rain.... Her in the USA we

take for granted the snow.... some see it as a disaster, some enjoy

it and love to do sports and or play in it, some love the beauty that

the snow can bring but regardless each winter many of the states know

it will snow to some extent......

But those who never ever get snow like Cuba only can imagine snow...

the one author of a book titled Waiting for Snow in Havanna tells of

hims life as a cuban and then later as an exiled boy to america. he

comes to say that the most oppressed countries and poor contries are

those who have no snow.... because snow means seasons which means

crops and foods of variety and it means prosperity to hae of the

wealth of food always available ....

So in autism those who never get to experience it never know what it

is of truely like.... they can only imagine of it.... But if the

family is of healthy they will be prosporous in diversity and

understand of hte unique beauty that autism can bring for their

families. But some days just like old snow it needs to be cleaned up

and it gets sloshy and dirty and does not hold the beauty again until

the next snow fall. that is because autism or not NO one person ever

holds perfection and reflects only positive emotions, healthy

thinking, compassions and such.... because some days they do reflect

like old snow.... but because we have experienced the beauty of the

new snow we can anticipate those days with fair expectations.

Just my rambling this day.

Sondra

---------------------------------

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Well said. But we can work to build an evironment that supports

families and individuals with ASRD -- realize that most all of them are

hurting, encourages parents/educators/society to work hard for their

kids, educates folks on all the different ways to deal with the

difficulties they face and supports them in making their own choices,

and helps provide safety nets and other supports for people who need

them. I think this board does many of those things. It won't fix

everyone's difficulties but it's a good place to start.

-- Cassie

sondra wrote:

> I to agree we must not stop trying but was saying that this is of the

> norms there is of too many voices and too many views and perceptions

> for it to ever become really unified as a one view or one voice or

> perceptions.

>

> Some insist that ALL autism is vaccine realted.

>

> Then some will say ALL autism is environmental

>

> Then some say lets CURE them ALL

>

> And some say dont CURE ME

>

> And some see it as a curese from God

>

> And some see it as a blessing from God

>

> Some say autism = retardation

>

> Some see those on spectrum as little geniuses

>

> Some insiste teh diet is of the only way

>

> Others dispute it

>

> Some say ABA is the only way

>

> Others say NO RDI is?

>

> Some say no Biromedical interventions are

>

> Some say Autism does not exist it is of just a catch all for everyone

> who is different

>

> Some say those with aspergers or HFA are not of autism but just

> acting rude and spoiled

>

> Some say those with real autism are non verbal creatures who do not

> interact, relate and self stim in isolates states of being

>

> So you see how complex it is of to get a unified voice when there is

> of too much ideas out there to change... and no matter the voice many

> will not let go of their own to expand the learning of their own

> beings to see others points of view.

>

> But if we stay silent we do not allow a differnet perspective to be

> explored, if we stay silent we do not build our own ideas and

> thinking to expand it, if we stay silent we subcomb to the full

> beliefs of others so in true Sharisa we cant stay silent this is of

> true///

> Sondra

>

>

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Sondra -- you really have a gift for words.

-- Cassie

sondra wrote:

> I to wanted to add the sunshine and rain.... Her in the USA we

> take for granted the snow.... some see it as a disaster, some enjoy

> it and love to do sports and or play in it, some love the beauty that

> the snow can bring but regardless each winter many of the states know

> it will snow to some extent......

>

> But those who never ever get snow like Cuba only can imagine snow...

> the one author of a book titled Waiting for Snow in Havanna tells of

> hims life as a cuban and then later as an exiled boy to america. he

> comes to say that the most oppressed countries and poor contries are

> those who have no snow.... because snow means seasons which means

> crops and foods of variety and it means prosperity to hae of the

> wealth of food always available ....

>

> So in autism those who never get to experience it never know what it

> is of truely like.... they can only imagine of it.... But if the

> family is of healthy they will be prosporous in diversity and

> understand of hte unique beauty that autism can bring for their

> families. But some days just like old snow it needs to be cleaned up

> and it gets sloshy and dirty and does not hold the beauty again until

> the next snow fall. that is because autism or not NO one person ever

> holds perfection and reflects only positive emotions, healthy

> thinking, compassions and such.... because some days they do reflect

> like old snow.... but because we have experienced the beauty of the

> new snow we can anticipate those days with fair expectations.

>

> Just my rambling this day.

>

> Sondra

>

>

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In a message dated 2/3/2008 6:41:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,

bubbetta@... writes:

A good beginning would be some common terminology that we can agree on,

and a new " CAMP " of us from both the old " camps " , where we both begin to

use this new common terminology, lingo, language all over the place, on

list serves, in books, at conferences, and we talk in ways that promote

more unity than fighting and division.

My one cent worth, Penny

sounds good. i want to be in this new camp.

sign me up!

Crabtail

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

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What Sharisa said. Preach on =)

Kassiane

--- Sharisa Joy Kochmeister

wrote:

> Pro-cure means abolishing the " curse " that " kidnaps "

> children and

> holds families " hostage. " Anti-cure is not

> anti-treatment - treat my

> symptoms, but by no means rob me of my gifts.

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Treatment is a good thing... " CURE " has such

> negative connotations

> > > that I find it totally and outrageously

> demeaning and condescedning.

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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crab tail yes you can be to share of it. I to be of to add am of much

a heart for the cuban exiles and my heart is of much compassions to

them. it is of one of my most strongest interests, besides autism. I to

have around 40-50 books on Cuba and trying to make a strong library of

the subject.

Sondra

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Thanks Kassi, they just can't seem to keep my mind shut!

> > > >

> > > > Treatment is a good thing... " CURE " has such

> > negative connotations

> > > > that I find it totally and outrageously

> > demeaning and condescedning.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

>

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sharisa this is of good that they cant shut up our minds... they can

our mouths but not our thinkings. I to remember much years in

restraints and not having any real interactions and was much isolated

and was of not able to speak so had a long time of being of mute....

and yet inside of me had of that thinking because within me my words

and thinking still danced within me.

Sondra

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WHEN I BEGAN RESEARCHING TREATMENT AND INTERVENTIONS, THE WORDS THAT

LEAPT AT ME WERE " CURE " AND " RECOVER " . I began to use those words, too.

They made sense to me. Then, somewhere not too far into my journey down

this pathway, I met folks like Kassiane and Sondra, and I began to read

books by authors with autism, and I began to listen, try to hear their

perspective, even as some of them so harshly criticized me for trying to

help my child. What I hear, though, as I listen, and as I have

opportunities to ask questions, and to clarify with them for MEANING, is

that there is a HUGE HUGE amount of AGREEMENT between the two " camps " ,

the BIG GLARING DIFFERENCE is the terminology we used.

When a parent has a child that is newly diagnosed, they're going to find

the same words that I found: cure and recover.

I give Kassi credit for making me see how my language could be making my

daughter feel " less than " . Kathie Snow reminded me that she's fine just

the way she is. And yet, I want her to feel better, to remove or reduce

obstacles and to help her learn to do that for herself, and to give her

experience communicating with reciprocity and not merely manding and

getting needs met.

I think that is what most parents want.

A good beginning would be some common terminology that we can agree on,

and a new " CAMP " of us from both the old " camps " , where we both begin to

use this new common terminology, lingo, language all over the place, on

list serves, in books, at conferences, and we talk in ways that promote

more unity than fighting and division.

My one cent worth, Penny

>

> there is not ever going to be a way to express teh multiple views on

> autism because it varies as much as the religions of this world, as

the

> cultures of this world and so there is never going to be of a complete

> accepatance of others views just as there will never be of one

religion

> or belief system for the entire world because people will be to cling

> to their own belief system no matter what the words or terminology is

> to be.

> Sondra

>

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Penny I to wish the same. I to wish we can get of the mind set to be

of to change but it is of a slow process.

Sondra

In Autism_in_Girls , " penelope_fam "

wrote:

>

> WHEN I BEGAN RESEARCHING TREATMENT AND INTERVENTIONS, THE WORDS THAT

> LEAPT AT ME WERE " CURE " AND " RECOVER " . I began to use those words,

too.

>

> They made sense to me. Then, somewhere not too far into my journey

down

> this pathway, I met folks like Kassiane and Sondra, and I began to

read

> books by authors with autism, and I began to listen, try to hear

their

> perspective, even as some of them so harshly criticized me for

trying to

> help my child. What I hear, though, as I listen, and as I have

> opportunities to ask questions, and to clarify with them for

MEANING, is

> that there is a HUGE HUGE amount of AGREEMENT between the

two " camps " ,

> the BIG GLARING DIFFERENCE is the terminology we used.

>

> When a parent has a child that is newly diagnosed, they're going to

find

> the same words that I found: cure and recover.

>

> I give Kassi credit for making me see how my language could be

making my

> daughter feel " less than " . Kathie Snow reminded me that she's fine

just

> the way she is. And yet, I want her to feel better, to remove or

reduce

> obstacles and to help her learn to do that for herself, and to give

her

> experience communicating with reciprocity and not merely manding and

> getting needs met.

>

> I think that is what most parents want.

>

> A good beginning would be some common terminology that we can agree

on,

> and a new " CAMP " of us from both the old " camps " , where we both

begin to

> use this new common terminology, lingo, language all over the

place, on

> list serves, in books, at conferences, and we talk in ways that

promote

> more unity than fighting and division.

>

> My one cent worth, Penny

>

> >

> > there is not ever going to be a way to express teh multiple views

on

> > autism because it varies as much as the religions of this world,

as

> the

> > cultures of this world and so there is never going to be of a

complete

> > accepatance of others views just as there will never be of one

> religion

> > or belief system for the entire world because people will be to

cling

> > to their own belief system no matter what the words or

terminology is

> > to be.

> > Sondra

> >

>

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Worth at least 2 cents, Penny! Or Tuppence!

..

> >

> > there is not ever going to be a way to express teh multiple views on

> > autism because it varies as much as the religions of this world, as

> the

> > cultures of this world and so there is never going to be of a complete

> > accepatance of others views just as there will never be of one

> religion

> > or belief system for the entire world because people will be to cling

> > to their own belief system no matter what the words or terminology is

> > to be.

> > Sondra

> >

>

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