Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

[Guest guest]

My " guarantee " regarding what? Mold?

Is your " guarantee " express, implied, extended...?

S.C.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I don't disagree with anything you said .... except about

> testing

> > my own work. Of course there are fine IEPs that write fine

> > protocols. But they are expensive and almost never found on

every

> > day jobs. We all know this because in general, insurance will

not

> > pay for fine IEPs to write custom protocols and then update the

> > protocol as the walls are opened for every day jobs. So what is

a

> > remediator to do?

> > >

> > > About testing ...

> > >

> > > As a remediator I do my own post-remdiation testing for

quality

> > control purposes. If there is an IEP and they do their own

> > additional testing fine. Then there are two sets of test

results.

> If

> > there is no IEP and no one else to take tests, I take tests to

> know

> > if more cleaning is needed and to protect myself from liability.

> If

> > you don't do post remediation testing and lets say there is

> another

> > water problem and mold growth and the house or office is

> contaminated

> > 6 months later ... how can you show that you did not actually

> leave

> > the house contaminated.

> > >

> > > I recommend that all mold remediators do their own baseline

(pre-

> > remediation) testing also so they can determine what background

> level

> > of mold is present as this affects how the job will be quoted.

How

> > much cleaning must be done? If Stachy is present you may need

more

> > cleaning. If the house is " dirty " you may not be able to clear

the

> > house unless the carpet is replaced and then you need to put

that

> in

> > your proposal.

> > >

> > > At least in our state the insurance providers do not want to

pay

> > for testing. They rarely pay. As remediators we just absorb this

> > cost as part of doing business. We do many $2K mold jobs (1-2

> sheets

> > of drywall) expecially for real estate transactions. These

include

> > remediation and drywall and baseboard build back and then white

> > primer paint. If we have to do 4 or 6 samples which can cost us

> $100-

> > $150 approximately that is a cost of doing business. No one is

> going

> > to pay for a decent IEP on any job this size or even somewhat

> > bigger.

> > >

> > > When we provide a certificate for our work we state that we

did

> not

> > leave the work area or surrounding area contaminated with mold

as

> a

> > result of the remediation. We can't do that without testing.

> > >

> > > Rosen, Ph.D.

> > > www.Mold-Free. org

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

> > >

> > > All:

> > > The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen

> > many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with

> the

> > building at hand, and every section ends with something

> like " ....and

> > if you find anything different after you start, use your best

> > professional judgment. "

> > > On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify

> > the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections

> > that end with " ...and if you find anything different after you

> start,

> > use your best professional judgment. " Often times much is left

to

> > judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job

every

> > day.

> > > As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out

> > of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in

his

> > contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign

> that,

> > he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the

> entire

> > house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss.

> > > S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at

> > the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up

to

> > the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember,

> > though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means

> that

> > it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR.

> > Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of

> > interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact

> > becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the

> window.

> > If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a

> third

> > party, paid for by the property owner.

> > > The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely

> > seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue.

> Dr.

> > Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio

> can

> > be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are

> not

> > idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing.

> > > There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I

> > have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we

> talked

> > about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional

and

> > courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular

> thread

> > has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one

> will

> > delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I

> > encourage the moderator to hurry its demise.

> > >

> > > Cole, CR

> > > Sentry Construction Company, Inc.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > ____________ __

> > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started.

> > > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/

mail>

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd.

> yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%

0a>

> > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

> <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/

> collections/ 265%0d%0a>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> ____________ ___

> > Don't pick lemons.

> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

> > http://autos. yahoo.com/ new_cars. html

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

> Looking for earth-friendly autos?

> Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

>

[Guest guest]

,

Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a

Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without

exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical

charges?

I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide

are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable

prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will provide in

a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and requested by

the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is different, so it's

difficult to generalize with a great deal of accuracy.

If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is

commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered.

I do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect

instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of the

percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding areas

in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a minimum,

inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing, ventilation,

systems, etc., and then write a report that is commensurate for the

project, and the goals of the client, as well.

I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building

and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample

collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report, less

if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve the

purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others, results

of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab analyses, if

any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained, and general

recommendations for corrective actions. Once the assessment is

done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired to perform to

begin with, I'm done.

That's the first logical break point.

IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further

with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if a

respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very

detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to solicit

bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and site visit

with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to receive and

evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make recommendations

pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates.

I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this

progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as

another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general.

Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of all,

is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire project,

and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have taken my

report, containing a more detailed description of the necessary scope

of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it, and given it to

contractors to get prices, and the contractors have then brought in their

own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any fools, nor am I

obligated for what I charge for a very complete and professional

assessment to give the farm away.

Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You

know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants

who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such

ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment

report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's

STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the

professional services associated with them, as separate items, along

with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're all

supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal??

So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed, and

more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's

drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've

come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will

sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP.

Cheers, over & out,

Chuck Reaney

,

Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all

materially responsible parties with substantive data and

interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized

direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not

doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business.

[Guest guest]

Partick,

Well put. I could not agree more. Let me explain the market here. Most mold samples are taken by home inspectors. They send their samples to Pro-Lab. Pro-Lab is set up to actually make the determination as to whether there is an elevation or not. The sample does not even write a report. They submit the Pro-Lab report. IEP's need to compete on price with that. As a result quality here can be pretty low unless you have some special skills that allow you to stay away from this down and dirty business.

In my earlier email to you I mentioned that the insurance companies are now using hired gun contractors to value engineer mold remediation protocols. I failed to state that it is a sad state of affairs where this is often needed because of the high level of fraud in our state. The high level of fraud is why there is the proposed mold licensing law to both protect consumers and keep the prices in line by having only legitimate (licensed) practitioners do the work.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol?> > All:> The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with the building at hand, and every section ends with something like "....and if you find anything different after you start, use your best professional judgment."> On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections that end with "...and if you find anything different after you start, use your best professional judgment." Often times much is left to judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job every day.> As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in his contract with the insuror. When

told that they could not sign that, he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the entire house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss.> S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up to the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember, though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means that it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR. Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the window. If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a third party, paid for by the property owner.> The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. Dr.

Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio can be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are not idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing.> There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we talked about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional and courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular thread has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one will delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I encourage the moderator to hurry its demise.> > Cole, CR> Sentry Construction Company, Inc.> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _____________ __> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for

Mobile . Get started.> http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail> >

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a> (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a>

TV dinner still cooling?Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

In FLA, if you are a contractor, you are required by law to provide a 1 year warranty on all work.

You said you provide a warranty on mold? What is your warranty?

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: When do you follow a IEP's

Protocol?> > > > > > All:> > > The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen > > many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with > the > > building at hand, and every section ends with something > like "....and > > if you find anything different after you start, use your best > > professional judgment."> > > On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify > > the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections > > that end with "...and if you find anything different after you > start, > > use your best professional judgment." Often times much is left to > > judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job every > > day.> > > As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out > > of TN that had an

indemnification & hold harmless agreement in his > > contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign > that, > > he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the > entire > > house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss.> > > S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at > > the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up to > > the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember, > > though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means > that > > it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR. > > Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of > > interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact > > becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the > window. > > If post

remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a > third > > party, paid for by the property owner.> > > The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely > > seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. > Dr. > > Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio > can > > be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are > not > > idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing.> > > There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I > > have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we > talked > > about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional and > > courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular > thread > > has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one

> will > > delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I > > encourage the moderator to hurry its demise.> > > > > > Cole, CR> > > Sentry Construction Company, Inc.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> > ____________ __> > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started.> > > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. > yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a> > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ > collections/ 265%0d%0a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> ____________ ___> > Don't pick lemons.> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.> > http://autos. yahoo.com/ new_cars. html> >> > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _____________ ___> Looking for earth-friendly autos? >

Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.> http://autos. yahoo.com/ green_center/>

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

You bring up some very

interesting points that are valuable considerations. In fact, I too do not test

all jobs where I can rely upon common sense to provide direction to the remediation

contractor. I do this when I

recognize my own personal liability is low and I an agreement or understanding with

my customer why I am not testing.

When I can offer common

sense approaches to remediation without testing, I write this approach as a “bias”

in my scope of work to the building owner and contractor, so there is no

confusion about my directions.

I also state in the

agreement, when I do not have pre-remediation statistical data that helps

direct the remediation phase, taking post-remediation sample may be subjective

without the pre-remediation data.

Thanks for your valuable

comments,

From:

iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck Reaney

Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007

10:15 PM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Re: When

do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

,

Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a

Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without

exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical

charges?

I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide

are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable

prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will

provide in

a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and requested by

the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is different, so it's

difficult to generalize with a great deal of accuracy.

If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is

commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered.

I do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect

instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of the

percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding areas

in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a minimum,

inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing, ventilation,

systems, etc., and then write a report that is commensurate for the

project, and the goals of the client, as well.

I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building

and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample

collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report, less

if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve the

purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others, results

of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab analyses, if

any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained, and general

recommendations for corrective actions. Once the assessment is

done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired to perform to

begin with, I'm done.

That's the first logical break point.

IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further

with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if a

respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very

detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to solicit

bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and site visit

with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to receive and

evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make recommendations

pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates.

I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this

progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as

another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general.

Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of all,

is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire project,

and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have taken my

report, containing a more detailed description of the necessary scope

of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it, and given it to

contractors to get prices, and the contractors have then brought in their

own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any fools, nor am I

obligated for what I charge for a very complete and professional

assessment to give the farm away.

Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You

know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants

who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such

ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment

report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's

STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the

professional services associated with them, as separate items, along

with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're all

supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal??

So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed, and

more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's

drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've

come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will

sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP.

Cheers, over & out,

Chuck Reaney

,

Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all

materially responsible parties with substantive data and

interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized

direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not

doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business.

[Guest guest]

,

Some, not all home

inspectors in southern California

unknowingly increase my workload. Many of them rely on labs that provide data

and tables of analysis that are not easily understood or

the data from 3 tape-lift samples are coming back all Stachybotrys 4+. The labs

provide tables as a service for the home inspector because they are not

qualified or knowledgeable to interpret the raw data. Based on a few samples,

(air or surface) many home inspectors are making assumptions they cannot

support, such as - the building has a major mold problem.

Often for the building

owner, home inspectors and labs are providing poor interpretation judgment about

the data as to what it means to an affected area. However, the poor homeowner

who is has their building in escrow is now faced with a major decision, and

wants to throw money at the problem to make it go away so escrow can close.

The homeowner looks to

the home inspector for advice and some inspectors bring in their buddy to make

the mold problem go away.

The labs are using tables

and charts as a means of helping home inspectors understand extremely limited

data that was sometimes poorly collected. The end

result is the labs make money and so do the home inspector. What the data truly

means to a homeowner who is looking at their home inspection report with lab

tables in my opinion is a poor use of science.

Moffett

From:

iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen

Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007

4:42 AM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Re: When

do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

Partick,

Well put. I could not agree more. Let me explain the market

here. Most mold samples are taken by home inspectors. They

send their samples to Pro-Lab. Pro-Lab is set up to actually make the

determination as to whether there is an elevation or not. The sample does

not even write a report. They submit the Pro-Lab report. IEP's need

to compete on price with that. As a result quality here can be pretty low

unless you have some special skills that allow you to stay away from this down

and dirty business.

In my earlier email to you I mentioned that the insurance companies are

now using hired gun contractors to value engineer mold remediation protocols. I

failed to state that it is a sad state of affairs where this is often needed because of the high level

of fraud in our state. The high level of fraud is why there is the

proposed mold licensing law to both protect consumers and keep the prices in

line by having only legitimate (licensed) practitioners do the work.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

>

> All:

> The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen

many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with the

building at hand, and every section ends with something like " ....and

if you find anything different after you start, use your best

professional judgment. "

> On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify

the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections

that end with " ...and if you find anything different after you start,

use your best professional judgment. " Often times much is left to

judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job every

day.

> As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out

of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in his

contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign that,

he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the entire

house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss.

> S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at

the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up to

the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember,

though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means that

it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR.

Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of

interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact

becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the window.

If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a third

party, paid for by the property owner.

> The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely

seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. Dr.

Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio can

be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are not

idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing.

> There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I

have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we talked

about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional and

courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular thread

has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one will

delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I

encourage the moderator to hurry its demise.

>

> Cole, CR

> Sentry Construction Company, Inc.

>

>

>

>

>

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

____________ __

> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile

.. Get started.

> http://mobile. yahoo.com/

mail <http://mobile.

yahoo.com/ mail>

>

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/

collections/ 265%0d%0a>

(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/

collections/ 265%0d%0a>

TV dinner still

cooling?

Check

out " Tonight's Picks " on Yahoo! TV.

Expecting? Get great news right away with email

Auto-Check.

Try the Yahoo!

Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for your valuable and gracious response. I realized this

morning that my post (late last night) was unduly harsh toward you, in

particular, although I certainly didn't set out to do that.

The frustration (and a degree of anger, I admit), that I expressed was

directed toward the previous post of Dr. , where he essentially

made an accusation that I was " ripping off " my clients by not packaging

everything that I CAN provide in a " Happy Meal " package, and that I

was somehow obligated to do that.

I openly resent (in case nobody noticed) busting my ass to do the best

possible job for my clients, only to have someone like Dr.

misconstrue and twist around my comments to serve his purposes of

reinforcing his self-image of being the all-in-one omnipotent contractor

and iep.

I pride myself in providing an excellent value in the balance between

the cost and services I provide, as well as on my thoroughness and

attention to detail. Factually, I probably undercharge for most of the

work I perform, because I'm a perfectionist, but that should remain my

problem, and not have to be paid for by the client.

While I fully acknowledge that there are whores, charlatans, pirates,

the inept and unqualified working either and both sides of the

contractor/consultant fence, I cannot remain quiet when someone like

Dr. is aggressively " professionally profiling " consultants in

general, and judging us all as being the same as the worst of the

worst of those that he has had contact and experience with. That is

HIS problem. And there are many fine, honest, ethical, dedicated,

competent contractors AND consultants as well.

My rants are not directed toward ANY of those, but only toward those

that are the problems; hence my pressure for the industry

organizations to act. Enough of that for now, though.

Again, , thank you for your graciousness in your understanding

and reply, and I apologize if there was misplaced aggression toward

you.

(Ok, that's my apology for 2007, and it was deserved.)

Next?

Regards,

Chuck Reaney

Chuck,

You bring up some very interesting points that are valuable

considerations. In fact, I too do not test all jobs where I can rely

upon common sense to provide direction to the remediation contractor.

I do this when I recognize my own personal liability is low and I an

agreement or understanding with my customer why I am not testing.

When

I can offer common sense approaches to remediation without testing, I

write this approach as a " bias " in my scope of work to the building

owner and contractor, so there is no confusion about my directions. I

also state in the agreement, when I do not have pre-remediation

statistical data that helps direct the remediation phase, taking

post-remediation sample may be subjective without the pre-

remediation

data. Thanks for your valuable comments,

_____

From: iequality

[mailto:iequality ] On

Behalf Of Chuck Reaney Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:15 PM

To:

iequality Subject: RE: Re: When do you

follow a IEP's Protocol?

,

Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a

Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without

exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical

charges?

I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide

are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable

prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will

provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and

requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is

different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of

accuracy.

If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is

commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I

do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect

instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of

the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding

areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a

minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing,

ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is

commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well.

I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building

and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample

collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report,

less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve

the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others,

results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab

analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained,

and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the

assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired

to perform to begin with, I'm done.

That's the first logical break point.

IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further

with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if

a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very

detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to

solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and

site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to

receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make

recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award

candidates.

I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this

progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as

another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general.

Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of

all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire

project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have

taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the

necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it,

and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have

then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any

fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and

professional assessment to give the farm away.

Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You

know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants

who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such

ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment

report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's

STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the

professional services associated with them, as separate items, along

with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're

all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal??

So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed,

and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's

drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've

come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will

sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP.

Cheers, over & out,

Chuck Reaney

,

Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all

materially responsible parties with substantive data and

interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized

direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not

doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business.

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I too am trying my best to do the right thing. Taking my own samples when I do consulting work only makes sense to me. When I get criticized that being super careful and taking my own samples (at my own expense) is somehow bad ... I get a little defensive and snippy.

Sorry about that.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

RE: Re: When do youfollow a IEP's Protocol?,Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as aConsultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, withoutexception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analyticalcharges?I hope I'm misunderstanding. The

consulting services that I provideare of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonableprices. But I have "break points" in the services, which I willprovide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired andrequested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job isdifferent, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal ofaccuracy. If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. Ido not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collectinstrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just ofthe percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surroundingareas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at aminimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing,ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that iscommensurate for the project, and the

goals of the client, as well.I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger buildingand/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve samplecollection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report,less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will servethe purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others,results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of labanalyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained,and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once theassessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hiredto perform to begin with, I'm done.That's the first logical break point.IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed furtherwith the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, ifa respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a verydetailed

specification which includes a detailed scope of work, tosolicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting andsite visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, toreceive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and makerecommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates.I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described thisprogression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it asanother opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general.Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first ofall, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entireproject, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who havetaken my report, containing a more detailed description of thenecessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it,and given it to contractors to get prices, and the

contractors havethen brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise anyfools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete andprofessional assessment to give the farm away.Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultantswho don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that suchignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessmentreport, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it'sSTANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and theprofessional services associated with them, as separate items, alongwith the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they'reall supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal??So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed,and more, but they're not all packaged and available

at a Mac 'sdrive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they'vecome to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who willsell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP.Cheers, over & out,Chuck Reaney,Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide allmaterially responsible parties with substantive data andinterpretation, scope of work remediation including personalizeddirection (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is notdoing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business.

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Providing warranty on your work is much different than providing a

warranty for mold. I am not a contractor, I am a consultant. I did

not say that I provided any kind of mold guarantee, nor would I -

it's mold. Maybe you should read my post again...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don't disagree with anything you said .... except about

> > testing

> > > my own work. Of course there are fine IEPs that write fine

> > > protocols. But they are expensive and almost never found on

> every

> > > day jobs. We all know this because in general, insurance will

> not

> > > pay for fine IEPs to write custom protocols and then update

the

> > > protocol as the walls are opened for every day jobs. So what

is

> a

> > > remediator to do?

> > > >

> > > > About testing ...

> > > >

> > > > As a remediator I do my own post-remdiation testing for

> quality

> > > control purposes. If there is an IEP and they do their own

> > > additional testing fine. Then there are two sets of test

> results.

> > If

> > > there is no IEP and no one else to take tests, I take tests to

> > know

> > > if more cleaning is needed and to protect myself from

liability.

> > If

> > > you don't do post remediation testing and lets say there is

> > another

> > > water problem and mold growth and the house or office is

> > contaminated

> > > 6 months later ... how can you show that you did not actually

> > leave

> > > the house contaminated.

> > > >

> > > > I recommend that all mold remediators do their own baseline

> (pre-

> > > remediation) testing also so they can determine what

background

> > level

> > > of mold is present as this affects how the job will be quoted.

> How

> > > much cleaning must be done? If Stachy is present you may need

> more

> > > cleaning. If the house is " dirty " you may not be able to clear

> the

> > > house unless the carpet is replaced and then you need to put

> that

> > in

> > > your proposal.

> > > >

> > > > At least in our state the insurance providers do not want to

> pay

> > > for testing. They rarely pay. As remediators we just absorb

this

> > > cost as part of doing business. We do many $2K mold jobs (1-2

> > sheets

> > > of drywall) expecially for real estate transactions. These

> include

> > > remediation and drywall and baseboard build back and then

white

> > > primer paint. If we have to do 4 or 6 samples which can cost

us

> > $100-

> > > $150 approximately that is a cost of doing business. No one is

> > going

> > > to pay for a decent IEP on any job this size or even somewhat

> > > bigger.

> > > >

> > > > When we provide a certificate for our work we state that we

> did

> > not

> > > leave the work area or surrounding area contaminated with mold

> as

> > a

> > > result of the remediation. We can't do that without testing.

> > > >

> > > > Rosen, Ph.D.

> > > > www.Mold-Free. org

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

> > > >

> > > > All:

> > > > The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen

> > > many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do

with

> > the

> > > building at hand, and every section ends with something

> > like " ....and

> > > if you find anything different after you start, use your best

> > > professional judgment. "

> > > > On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and

quantify

> > > the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have

sections

> > > that end with " ...and if you find anything different after you

> > start,

> > > use your best professional judgment. " Often times much is left

> to

> > > judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job

> every

> > > day.

> > > > As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP

out

> > > of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in

> his

> > > contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign

> > that,

> > > he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the

> > entire

> > > house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss.

> > > > S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard

at

> > > the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often

up

> to

> > > the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember,

> > > though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary

means

> > that

> > > it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed.

DR.

> > > Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of

> > > interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that

fact

> > > becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the

> > window.

> > > If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by

a

> > third

> > > party, paid for by the property owner.

> > > > The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely

> > > seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an

issue.

> > Dr.

> > > Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same

ratio

> > can

> > > be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors

are

> > not

> > > idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing.

> > > > There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I

> > > have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we

> > talked

> > > about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional

> and

> > > courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular

> > thread

> > > has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for

one

> > will

> > > delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I

> > > encourage the moderator to hurry its demise.

> > > >

> > > > Cole, CR

> > > > Sentry Construction Company, Inc.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________

_

> > > ____________ __

> > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started.

> > > > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/

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> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love

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> > >

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> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > ____________ ___

> > > Don't pick lemons.

> > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

> > > http://autos. yahoo.com/ new_cars. html

> > >

> >

> >

> >

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> >

> >

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> ____________ ___

> > Looking for earth-friendly autos?

> > Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

> > http://autos. yahoo.com/ green_center/

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

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[Guest guest]

Providing warranty on your work is much different than providing a

warranty for mold. I am not a contractor, I am a consultant. I did

not say that I provided any kind of mold guarantee, nor would I -

it's mold. Maybe you should read my post again...

I provide a guarantee for mold. I guarantee that if the moisture isn't controlled, the mold will grow back.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

You’re the man!!!!! I agree with

your comments to . Dr. Rosen has raised my red flags higher than I have

raised them in the past. There is no way (in my opinion) that Dr. Rosen’s

interest in solely in the client’s pocketbook (unless it is flowing in

his direction). I believe there may be a larger factor in the direction of self

interest. Time will play out and we may be seeing Dr. Rosen’s popularity

rise but not in the areas he may be hoping. I hope for his sake it doesn’t

happen but the course he is on, as many before have traveled and flown the flag

of client, I feel it may end up a dead end road after a lot of hard work. I

believe this is one of the reasons Fl made the law concerning remediation.

Hey those who get it, get it. Those who don’t,

don’t. Lets let it play out [they (or he) is not going to listen anyway]..When

one of us is needed to testify, so be it.

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck Reaney

Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007

1:07 PM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Re: When

do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

,

Thank you for your valuable and gracious response. I realized this

morning that my post (late last night) was unduly harsh toward you, in

particular, although I certainly didn't set out to do that.

The frustration (and a degree of anger, I admit), that I expressed was

directed toward the previous post of Dr. , where he essentially

made an accusation that I was " ripping off " my clients by not

packaging

everything that I CAN provide in a " Happy Meal " package, and that I

was somehow obligated to do that.

I openly resent (in case nobody noticed) busting my ass to do the best

possible job for my clients, only to have someone like Dr.

misconstrue and twist around my comments to serve his purposes of

reinforcing his self-image of being the all-in-one omnipotent contractor

and iep.

I pride myself in providing an excellent value in the balance between

the cost and services I provide, as well as on my thoroughness and

attention to detail. Factually, I probably undercharge for most of the

work I perform, because I'm a perfectionist, but that should remain my

problem, and not have to be paid for by the client.

While I fully acknowledge that there are whores, charlatans, pirates,

the inept and unqualified working either and both sides of the

contractor/consultant fence, I cannot remain quiet when someone like

Dr. is aggressively " professionally profiling " consultants in

general, and judging us all as being the same as the worst of the

worst of those that he has had contact and experience with. That is

HIS problem. And there are many fine, honest, ethical, dedicated,

competent contractors AND consultants as well.

My rants are not directed toward ANY of those, but only toward those

that are the problems; hence my pressure for the industry

organizations to act. Enough of that for now, though.

Again, , thank you for your graciousness in your understanding

and reply, and I apologize if there was misplaced aggression toward

you.

(Ok, that's my apology for 2007, and it was deserved.)

Next?

Regards,

Chuck Reaney

Chuck,

You bring up some very interesting points that are valuable

considerations. In fact, I too do not test all jobs where I can rely

upon common sense to provide direction to the remediation contractor.

I do this when I recognize my own personal liability is low and I an

agreement or understanding with my customer why I am not testing.

When

I can offer common sense approaches to remediation without testing, I

write this approach as a " bias " in my scope of work to the building

owner and contractor, so there is no confusion about my directions. I

also state in the agreement, when I do not have pre-remediation

statistical data that helps direct the remediation phase, taking

post-remediation sample may be subjective without the pre-

remediation

data. Thanks for your valuable comments,

_____

From: iequality

[mailto:iequality ]

On

Behalf Of Chuck Reaney Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:15 PM

To:

iequality

Subject: RE: Re: When do you

follow a IEP's Protocol?

,

Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a

Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without

exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical

charges?

I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide

are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable

prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will

provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and

requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is

different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of

accuracy.

If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is

commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I

do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect

instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of

the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding

areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a

minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing,

ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is

commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well.

I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building

and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample

collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report,

less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve

the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others,

results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab

analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained,

and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the

assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired

to perform to begin with, I'm done.

That's the first logical break point.

IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further

with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if

a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very

detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to

solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and

site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to

receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make

recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award

candidates.

I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this

progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as

another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general.

Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of

all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire

project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have

taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the

necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it,

and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have

then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any

fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and

professional assessment to give the farm away.

Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You

know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants

who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such

ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment

report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's

STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the

professional services associated with them, as separate items, along

with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're

all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal??

So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed,

and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's

drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've

come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will

sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP.

Cheers, over & out,

Chuck Reaney

,

Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all

materially responsible parties with substantive data and

interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized

direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not

doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business.

[Guest guest]

,

What else do you add in for free? You do

the remediation (including fine cleaning), sampling, scope, protocol, and

specifications. I do not believe there is enough money to do all of this within

the limits you speak of.

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen

Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007

2:31 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Re: When

do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

Chuck,

I too am trying my best to do the right thing. Taking my own

samples when I do consulting work only makes sense to me. When I get

criticized that being super careful and taking my own samples (at my own

expense) is somehow bad ... I get a little defensive and snippy.

Sorry about that.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

RE: Re: When do you

follow a IEP's Protocol?

,

Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a

Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without

exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical

charges?

I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide

are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable

prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will

provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and

requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is

different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of

accuracy.

If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is

commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I

do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect

instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of

the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding

areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a

minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing,

ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is

commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well.

I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building

and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample

collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report,

less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve

the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others,

results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab

analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained,

and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the

assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired

to perform to begin with, I'm done.

That's the first logical break point.

IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further

with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if

a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very

detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to

solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and

site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to

receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make

recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award

candidates.

I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this

progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as

another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general.

Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of

all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire

project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have

taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the

necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it,

and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have

then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any

fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and

professional assessment to give the farm away.

Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You

know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants

who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such

ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment

report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's

STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the

professional services associated with them, as separate items, along

with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're

all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal??

So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed,

and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's

drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've

come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will

sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP.

Cheers, over & out,

Chuck Reaney

,

Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all

materially responsible parties with substantive data and

interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized

direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not

doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business.

Don't get soaked. Take a

quick peak at the forecast

with theYahoo!

Search weather shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I like that Steve. That is about the

extent of any guarantee. Besides, I would like to see how some on this list

would defend their work if and when the mold is uncontrolled. Besides

controlled could be an undefined concept (for how long and under what

conditions). Source removal is the only practice I choose to utilize. That is

my control.

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of AirwaysEnv@...

Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007

8:09 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Re: When

do you follow a IEP's Protocol?

In a message dated 2/7/2007 8:05:38 PM

Eastern Standard Time, schampioncommspeed (DOT) net writes:

Providing warranty on

your work is much different than providing a

warranty for mold. I am not a contractor, I am a consultant. I did

not say that I provided any kind of mold guarantee, nor would I -

it's mold. Maybe you should read my post again...

I provide a guarantee for mold. I guarantee

that if the moisture isn't controlled, the mold will grow back.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

:

Oh so well said!

I didn’t realize just how rampant this mold issue is with residential real estate transactions until this past year. To express once project of mine, I am retained by an attorney representing the real estate agent and broker. A buyer is making a $100K claim that mold is in his home and is being forced to sell it because his spouse cannot live in a “mold contaminated” home. His claim is based on a home inspection that took 3 tape lifts and based on this, the home inspector stated that there is mold in the walls, ceilings, attic, floors, etc. During an inspection of the home when myself and about 15 other people walked through it, the home looked squeaking clean, dry, etc. I was in great condition. Mediation was yesterday and additional mold tests were to be provided by the buyer, none were. Don’t yet know where this project is going, but the 3-tape life wonder really buggered up this real estate transaction and triggered a lawsuit.

,

Some, not all home inspectors in southern California unknowingly increase my workload. Many of them rely on labs that provide data and tables of analysis that are not easily understood or the data from 3 tape-lift samples are coming back all Stachybotrys 4+. The labs provide tables as a service for the home inspector because they are not qualified or knowledgeable to interpret the raw data. Based on a few samples, (air or surface) many home inspectors are making assumptions they cannot support, such as - the building has a major mold problem.

Often for the building owner, home inspectors and labs are providing poor interpretation judgment about the data as to what it means to an affected area. However, the poor homeowner who is has their building in escrow is now faced with a major decision, and wants to throw money at the problem to make it go away so escrow can close.

The homeowner looks to the home inspector for advice and some inspectors bring in their buddy to make the mold problem go away.

The labs are using tables and charts as a means of helping home inspectors understand extremely limited data that was sometimes poorly collected. The end result is the labs make money and so do the home inspector. What the data truly means to a homeowner who is looking at their home inspection report with lab tables in my opinion is a poor use of science.

Moffett