Guest guest Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 My " guarantee " regarding what? Mold? Is your " guarantee " express, implied, extended...? S.C. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't disagree with anything you said .... except about > testing > > my own work. Of course there are fine IEPs that write fine > > protocols. But they are expensive and almost never found on every > > day jobs. We all know this because in general, insurance will not > > pay for fine IEPs to write custom protocols and then update the > > protocol as the walls are opened for every day jobs. So what is a > > remediator to do? > > > > > > About testing ... > > > > > > As a remediator I do my own post-remdiation testing for quality > > control purposes. If there is an IEP and they do their own > > additional testing fine. Then there are two sets of test results. > If > > there is no IEP and no one else to take tests, I take tests to > know > > if more cleaning is needed and to protect myself from liability. > If > > you don't do post remediation testing and lets say there is > another > > water problem and mold growth and the house or office is > contaminated > > 6 months later ... how can you show that you did not actually > leave > > the house contaminated. > > > > > > I recommend that all mold remediators do their own baseline (pre- > > remediation) testing also so they can determine what background > level > > of mold is present as this affects how the job will be quoted. How > > much cleaning must be done? If Stachy is present you may need more > > cleaning. If the house is " dirty " you may not be able to clear the > > house unless the carpet is replaced and then you need to put that > in > > your proposal. > > > > > > At least in our state the insurance providers do not want to pay > > for testing. They rarely pay. As remediators we just absorb this > > cost as part of doing business. We do many $2K mold jobs (1-2 > sheets > > of drywall) expecially for real estate transactions. These include > > remediation and drywall and baseboard build back and then white > > primer paint. If we have to do 4 or 6 samples which can cost us > $100- > > $150 approximately that is a cost of doing business. No one is > going > > to pay for a decent IEP on any job this size or even somewhat > > bigger. > > > > > > When we provide a certificate for our work we state that we did > not > > leave the work area or surrounding area contaminated with mold as > a > > result of the remediation. We can't do that without testing. > > > > > > Rosen, Ph.D. > > > www.Mold-Free. org > > > > > > > > > Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? > > > > > > All: > > > The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen > > many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with > the > > building at hand, and every section ends with something > like " ....and > > if you find anything different after you start, use your best > > professional judgment. " > > > On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify > > the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections > > that end with " ...and if you find anything different after you > start, > > use your best professional judgment. " Often times much is left to > > judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job every > > day. > > > As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out > > of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in his > > contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign > that, > > he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the > entire > > house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss. > > > S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at > > the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up to > > the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember, > > though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means > that > > it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR. > > Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of > > interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact > > becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the > window. > > If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a > third > > party, paid for by the property owner. > > > The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely > > seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. > Dr. > > Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio > can > > be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are > not > > idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing. > > > There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I > > have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we > talked > > about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional and > > courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular > thread > > has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one > will > > delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I > > encourage the moderator to hurry its demise. > > > > > > Cole, CR > > > Sentry Construction Company, Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ __ > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started. > > > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. > yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d% 0a> > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ > collections/ 265%0d%0a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > ____________ ___ > > Don't pick lemons. > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > http://autos. yahoo.com/ new_cars. html > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _______________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 , Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical charges? I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of accuracy. If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing, ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well. I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report, less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others, results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained, and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired to perform to begin with, I'm done. That's the first logical break point. IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates. I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general. Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it, and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and professional assessment to give the farm away. Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the professional services associated with them, as separate items, along with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal?? So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed, and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP. Cheers, over & out, Chuck Reaney , Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all materially responsible parties with substantive data and interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Partick, Well put. I could not agree more. Let me explain the market here. Most mold samples are taken by home inspectors. They send their samples to Pro-Lab. Pro-Lab is set up to actually make the determination as to whether there is an elevation or not. The sample does not even write a report. They submit the Pro-Lab report. IEP's need to compete on price with that. As a result quality here can be pretty low unless you have some special skills that allow you to stay away from this down and dirty business. In my earlier email to you I mentioned that the insurance companies are now using hired gun contractors to value engineer mold remediation protocols. I failed to state that it is a sad state of affairs where this is often needed because of the high level of fraud in our state. The high level of fraud is why there is the proposed mold licensing law to both protect consumers and keep the prices in line by having only legitimate (licensed) practitioners do the work. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol?> > All:> The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with the building at hand, and every section ends with something like "....and if you find anything different after you start, use your best professional judgment."> On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections that end with "...and if you find anything different after you start, use your best professional judgment." Often times much is left to judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job every day.> As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in his contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign that, he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the entire house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss.> S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up to the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember, though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means that it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR. Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the window. If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a third party, paid for by the property owner.> The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. Dr. Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio can be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are not idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing.> There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we talked about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional and courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular thread has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one will delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I encourage the moderator to hurry its demise.> > Cole, CR> Sentry Construction Company, Inc.> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _____________ __> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started.> http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail> > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a> (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a> TV dinner still cooling?Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 In FLA, if you are a contractor, you are required by law to provide a 1 year warranty on all work. You said you provide a warranty on mold? What is your warranty? Rosen www.Mold-Books.com Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol?> > > > > > All:> > > The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen > > many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with > the > > building at hand, and every section ends with something > like "....and > > if you find anything different after you start, use your best > > professional judgment."> > > On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify > > the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections > > that end with "...and if you find anything different after you > start, > > use your best professional judgment." Often times much is left to > > judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job every > > day.> > > As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out > > of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in his > > contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign > that, > > he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the > entire > > house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss.> > > S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at > > the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up to > > the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember, > > though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means > that > > it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR. > > Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of > > interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact > > becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the > window. > > If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a > third > > party, paid for by the property owner.> > > The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely > > seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. > Dr. > > Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio > can > > be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are > not > > idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing.> > > There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I > > have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we > talked > > about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional and > > courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular > thread > > has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one > will > > delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I > > encourage the moderator to hurry its demise.> > > > > > Cole, CR> > > Sentry Construction Company, Inc.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> > ____________ __> > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started.> > > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. > yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a> > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ > collections/ 265%0d%0a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> ____________ ___> > Don't pick lemons.> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.> > http://autos. yahoo.com/ new_cars. html> >> > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _____________ ___> Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.> http://autos. yahoo.com/ green_center/> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Chuck, You bring up some very interesting points that are valuable considerations. In fact, I too do not test all jobs where I can rely upon common sense to provide direction to the remediation contractor. I do this when I recognize my own personal liability is low and I an agreement or understanding with my customer why I am not testing. When I can offer common sense approaches to remediation without testing, I write this approach as a “bias” in my scope of work to the building owner and contractor, so there is no confusion about my directions. I also state in the agreement, when I do not have pre-remediation statistical data that helps direct the remediation phase, taking post-remediation sample may be subjective without the pre-remediation data. Thanks for your valuable comments, From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck Reaney Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:15 PM To: iequality Subject: RE: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? , Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical charges? I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of accuracy. If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing, ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well. I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report, less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others, results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained, and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired to perform to begin with, I'm done. That's the first logical break point. IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates. I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general. Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it, and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and professional assessment to give the farm away. Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the professional services associated with them, as separate items, along with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal?? So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed, and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP. Cheers, over & out, Chuck Reaney , Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all materially responsible parties with substantive data and interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business. 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Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 , Some, not all home inspectors in southern California unknowingly increase my workload. Many of them rely on labs that provide data and tables of analysis that are not easily understood or the data from 3 tape-lift samples are coming back all Stachybotrys 4+. The labs provide tables as a service for the home inspector because they are not qualified or knowledgeable to interpret the raw data. Based on a few samples, (air or surface) many home inspectors are making assumptions they cannot support, such as - the building has a major mold problem. Often for the building owner, home inspectors and labs are providing poor interpretation judgment about the data as to what it means to an affected area. However, the poor homeowner who is has their building in escrow is now faced with a major decision, and wants to throw money at the problem to make it go away so escrow can close. The homeowner looks to the home inspector for advice and some inspectors bring in their buddy to make the mold problem go away. The labs are using tables and charts as a means of helping home inspectors understand extremely limited data that was sometimes poorly collected. The end result is the labs make money and so do the home inspector. What the data truly means to a homeowner who is looking at their home inspection report with lab tables in my opinion is a poor use of science. Moffett From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 4:42 AM To: iequality Subject: Re: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? Partick, Well put. I could not agree more. Let me explain the market here. Most mold samples are taken by home inspectors. They send their samples to Pro-Lab. Pro-Lab is set up to actually make the determination as to whether there is an elevation or not. The sample does not even write a report. They submit the Pro-Lab report. IEP's need to compete on price with that. As a result quality here can be pretty low unless you have some special skills that allow you to stay away from this down and dirty business. In my earlier email to you I mentioned that the insurance companies are now using hired gun contractors to value engineer mold remediation protocols. I failed to state that it is a sad state of affairs where this is often needed because of the high level of fraud in our state. The high level of fraud is why there is the proposed mold licensing law to both protect consumers and keep the prices in line by having only legitimate (licensed) practitioners do the work. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? > > All: > The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with the building at hand, and every section ends with something like " ....and if you find anything different after you start, use your best professional judgment. " > On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections that end with " ...and if you find anything different after you start, use your best professional judgment. " Often times much is left to judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job every day. > As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in his contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign that, he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the entire house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss. > S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up to the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember, though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means that it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR. Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the window. If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a third party, paid for by the property owner. > The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. Dr. Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio can be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are not idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing. > There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we talked about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional and courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular thread has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one will delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I encourage the moderator to hurry its demise. > > Cole, CR > Sentry Construction Company, Inc. > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ ____________ __ > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile .. Get started. > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail> > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a> (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d%0a> TV dinner still cooling? Check out " Tonight's Picks " on Yahoo! TV. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 , Thank you for your valuable and gracious response. I realized this morning that my post (late last night) was unduly harsh toward you, in particular, although I certainly didn't set out to do that. The frustration (and a degree of anger, I admit), that I expressed was directed toward the previous post of Dr. , where he essentially made an accusation that I was " ripping off " my clients by not packaging everything that I CAN provide in a " Happy Meal " package, and that I was somehow obligated to do that. I openly resent (in case nobody noticed) busting my ass to do the best possible job for my clients, only to have someone like Dr. misconstrue and twist around my comments to serve his purposes of reinforcing his self-image of being the all-in-one omnipotent contractor and iep. I pride myself in providing an excellent value in the balance between the cost and services I provide, as well as on my thoroughness and attention to detail. Factually, I probably undercharge for most of the work I perform, because I'm a perfectionist, but that should remain my problem, and not have to be paid for by the client. While I fully acknowledge that there are whores, charlatans, pirates, the inept and unqualified working either and both sides of the contractor/consultant fence, I cannot remain quiet when someone like Dr. is aggressively " professionally profiling " consultants in general, and judging us all as being the same as the worst of the worst of those that he has had contact and experience with. That is HIS problem. And there are many fine, honest, ethical, dedicated, competent contractors AND consultants as well. My rants are not directed toward ANY of those, but only toward those that are the problems; hence my pressure for the industry organizations to act. Enough of that for now, though. Again, , thank you for your graciousness in your understanding and reply, and I apologize if there was misplaced aggression toward you. (Ok, that's my apology for 2007, and it was deserved.) Next? Regards, Chuck Reaney Chuck, You bring up some very interesting points that are valuable considerations. In fact, I too do not test all jobs where I can rely upon common sense to provide direction to the remediation contractor. I do this when I recognize my own personal liability is low and I an agreement or understanding with my customer why I am not testing. When I can offer common sense approaches to remediation without testing, I write this approach as a " bias " in my scope of work to the building owner and contractor, so there is no confusion about my directions. I also state in the agreement, when I do not have pre-remediation statistical data that helps direct the remediation phase, taking post-remediation sample may be subjective without the pre- remediation data. Thanks for your valuable comments, _____ From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck Reaney Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:15 PM To: iequality Subject: RE: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? , Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical charges? I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of accuracy. If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing, ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well. I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report, less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others, results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained, and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired to perform to begin with, I'm done. That's the first logical break point. IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates. I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general. Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it, and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and professional assessment to give the farm away. Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the professional services associated with them, as separate items, along with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal?? So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed, and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP. Cheers, over & out, Chuck Reaney , Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all materially responsible parties with substantive data and interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Chuck, I too am trying my best to do the right thing. Taking my own samples when I do consulting work only makes sense to me. When I get criticized that being super careful and taking my own samples (at my own expense) is somehow bad ... I get a little defensive and snippy. Sorry about that. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com RE: Re: When do youfollow a IEP's Protocol?,Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as aConsultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, withoutexception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analyticalcharges?I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provideare of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonableprices. But I have "break points" in the services, which I willprovide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired andrequested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job isdifferent, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal ofaccuracy. If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. Ido not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collectinstrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just ofthe percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surroundingareas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at aminimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing,ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that iscommensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well.I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger buildingand/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve samplecollection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report,less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will servethe purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others,results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of labanalyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained,and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once theassessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hiredto perform to begin with, I'm done.That's the first logical break point.IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed furtherwith the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, ifa respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a verydetailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, tosolicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting andsite visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, toreceive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and makerecommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates.I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described thisprogression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it asanother opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general.Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first ofall, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entireproject, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who havetaken my report, containing a more detailed description of thenecessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it,and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors havethen brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise anyfools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete andprofessional assessment to give the farm away.Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultantswho don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that suchignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessmentreport, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it'sSTANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and theprofessional services associated with them, as separate items, alongwith the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they'reall supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal??So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed,and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 'sdrive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they'vecome to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who willsell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP.Cheers, over & out,Chuck Reaney,Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide allmaterially responsible parties with substantive data andinterpretation, scope of work remediation including personalizeddirection (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is notdoing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Providing warranty on your work is much different than providing a warranty for mold. I am not a contractor, I am a consultant. I did not say that I provided any kind of mold guarantee, nor would I - it's mold. Maybe you should read my post again... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't disagree with anything you said .... except about > > testing > > > my own work. Of course there are fine IEPs that write fine > > > protocols. But they are expensive and almost never found on > every > > > day jobs. We all know this because in general, insurance will > not > > > pay for fine IEPs to write custom protocols and then update the > > > protocol as the walls are opened for every day jobs. So what is > a > > > remediator to do? > > > > > > > > About testing ... > > > > > > > > As a remediator I do my own post-remdiation testing for > quality > > > control purposes. If there is an IEP and they do their own > > > additional testing fine. Then there are two sets of test > results. > > If > > > there is no IEP and no one else to take tests, I take tests to > > know > > > if more cleaning is needed and to protect myself from liability. > > If > > > you don't do post remediation testing and lets say there is > > another > > > water problem and mold growth and the house or office is > > contaminated > > > 6 months later ... how can you show that you did not actually > > leave > > > the house contaminated. > > > > > > > > I recommend that all mold remediators do their own baseline > (pre- > > > remediation) testing also so they can determine what background > > level > > > of mold is present as this affects how the job will be quoted. > How > > > much cleaning must be done? If Stachy is present you may need > more > > > cleaning. If the house is " dirty " you may not be able to clear > the > > > house unless the carpet is replaced and then you need to put > that > > in > > > your proposal. > > > > > > > > At least in our state the insurance providers do not want to > pay > > > for testing. They rarely pay. As remediators we just absorb this > > > cost as part of doing business. We do many $2K mold jobs (1-2 > > sheets > > > of drywall) expecially for real estate transactions. These > include > > > remediation and drywall and baseboard build back and then white > > > primer paint. If we have to do 4 or 6 samples which can cost us > > $100- > > > $150 approximately that is a cost of doing business. No one is > > going > > > to pay for a decent IEP on any job this size or even somewhat > > > bigger. > > > > > > > > When we provide a certificate for our work we state that we > did > > not > > > leave the work area or surrounding area contaminated with mold > as > > a > > > result of the remediation. We can't do that without testing. > > > > > > > > Rosen, Ph.D. > > > > www.Mold-Free. org > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? > > > > > > > > All: > > > > The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. I have seen > > > many IEP protocols that are boiler plate, have little to do with > > the > > > building at hand, and every section ends with something > > like " ....and > > > if you find anything different after you start, use your best > > > professional judgment. " > > > > On the other hand I have seen many that instruct and quantify > > > the work to be done, often wall by wall. They also have sections > > > that end with " ...and if you find anything different after you > > start, > > > use your best professional judgment. " Often times much is left > to > > > judgment of the remediator, because he is the one on the job > every > > > day. > > > > As for a guarantee for protocols, good luck. I saw one IEP out > > > of TN that had an indemnification & hold harmless agreement in > his > > > contract with the insuror. When told that they could not sign > > that, > > > he took it out and then turned in a protocol to tear out the > > entire > > > house, effectively creating an unnecessary total loss. > > > > S520, flawed as you might think that it is, is the standard at > > > the moment. Dr. Rosen is correct in stating that it is often up > to > > > the remediator to determine if an IEP is necessary. Remember, > > > though, that just because you SAY an IEP is not necessary means > > that > > > it is true. A reasonable standard of care must be followed. DR. > > > Rosen, stop testing your own work. It is a direct conflict of > > > interest according to S520 and all common sense. Once that fact > > > becomes known in a conflict all your credibility is out the > > window. > > > If post remediation testing is indicated it should be done by a > > third > > > party, paid for by the property owner. > > > > The general tone of this thread is way wrong. I have rarely > > > seen such a continued lack of respect on both sides of an issue. > > Dr. > > > Rosen, not all IEP's are idiots. I predict about the same ratio > > can > > > be found in contractors. As for you IEP's, most contractors are > > not > > > idiots, just hard working guys trying to do the right thing. > > > > There is too much bluster & bullying on this board lately. I > > > have been a part of it since it started, way back when all we > > talked > > > about was candle soot. Please keep your comments professional > and > > > courteous. If you disagree, be nice about it. This particular > > thread > > > has sunk to a new low of name calling & disrespect, & I for one > > will > > > delete the posts on this thread until it is dead and gone. I > > > encourage the moderator to hurry its demise. > > > > > > > > Cole, CR > > > > Sentry Construction Company, Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > > ____________ __ > > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started. > > > > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ > mail> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love <http://us.rd. > > yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265%0d% > 0a> > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http:/tv. yahoo.com/ > > collections/ 265%0d%0a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > ____________ ___ > > > Don't pick lemons. > > > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > http://autos. yahoo.com/ new_cars. html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > ____________ ___ > > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > > Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > > http://autos. yahoo.com/ green_center/ > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _______________ > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Providing warranty on your work is much different than providing a warranty for mold. I am not a contractor, I am a consultant. I did not say that I provided any kind of mold guarantee, nor would I - it's mold. Maybe you should read my post again... I provide a guarantee for mold. I guarantee that if the moisture isn't controlled, the mold will grow back. Steve Temes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Chuck, You’re the man!!!!! I agree with your comments to . Dr. Rosen has raised my red flags higher than I have raised them in the past. There is no way (in my opinion) that Dr. Rosen’s interest in solely in the client’s pocketbook (unless it is flowing in his direction). I believe there may be a larger factor in the direction of self interest. Time will play out and we may be seeing Dr. Rosen’s popularity rise but not in the areas he may be hoping. I hope for his sake it doesn’t happen but the course he is on, as many before have traveled and flown the flag of client, I feel it may end up a dead end road after a lot of hard work. I believe this is one of the reasons Fl made the law concerning remediation. Hey those who get it, get it. Those who don’t, don’t. Lets let it play out [they (or he) is not going to listen anyway]..When one of us is needed to testify, so be it. Bob/Ma. From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck Reaney Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 1:07 PM To: iequality Subject: RE: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? , Thank you for your valuable and gracious response. I realized this morning that my post (late last night) was unduly harsh toward you, in particular, although I certainly didn't set out to do that. The frustration (and a degree of anger, I admit), that I expressed was directed toward the previous post of Dr. , where he essentially made an accusation that I was " ripping off " my clients by not packaging everything that I CAN provide in a " Happy Meal " package, and that I was somehow obligated to do that. I openly resent (in case nobody noticed) busting my ass to do the best possible job for my clients, only to have someone like Dr. misconstrue and twist around my comments to serve his purposes of reinforcing his self-image of being the all-in-one omnipotent contractor and iep. I pride myself in providing an excellent value in the balance between the cost and services I provide, as well as on my thoroughness and attention to detail. Factually, I probably undercharge for most of the work I perform, because I'm a perfectionist, but that should remain my problem, and not have to be paid for by the client. While I fully acknowledge that there are whores, charlatans, pirates, the inept and unqualified working either and both sides of the contractor/consultant fence, I cannot remain quiet when someone like Dr. is aggressively " professionally profiling " consultants in general, and judging us all as being the same as the worst of the worst of those that he has had contact and experience with. That is HIS problem. And there are many fine, honest, ethical, dedicated, competent contractors AND consultants as well. My rants are not directed toward ANY of those, but only toward those that are the problems; hence my pressure for the industry organizations to act. Enough of that for now, though. Again, , thank you for your graciousness in your understanding and reply, and I apologize if there was misplaced aggression toward you. (Ok, that's my apology for 2007, and it was deserved.) Next? Regards, Chuck Reaney Chuck, You bring up some very interesting points that are valuable considerations. In fact, I too do not test all jobs where I can rely upon common sense to provide direction to the remediation contractor. I do this when I recognize my own personal liability is low and I an agreement or understanding with my customer why I am not testing. When I can offer common sense approaches to remediation without testing, I write this approach as a " bias " in my scope of work to the building owner and contractor, so there is no confusion about my directions. I also state in the agreement, when I do not have pre-remediation statistical data that helps direct the remediation phase, taking post-remediation sample may be subjective without the pre- remediation data. Thanks for your valuable comments, _____ From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck Reaney Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:15 PM To: iequality Subject: RE: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? , Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical charges? I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of accuracy. If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing, ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well. I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report, less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others, results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained, and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired to perform to begin with, I'm done. That's the first logical break point. IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates. I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general. Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it, and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and professional assessment to give the farm away. Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the professional services associated with them, as separate items, along with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal?? So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed, and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP. Cheers, over & out, Chuck Reaney , Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all materially responsible parties with substantive data and interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 , What else do you add in for free? You do the remediation (including fine cleaning), sampling, scope, protocol, and specifications. I do not believe there is enough money to do all of this within the limits you speak of. Bob/Ma. From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:31 PM To: iequality Subject: Re: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? Chuck, I too am trying my best to do the right thing. Taking my own samples when I do consulting work only makes sense to me. When I get criticized that being super careful and taking my own samples (at my own expense) is somehow bad ... I get a little defensive and snippy. Sorry about that. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com RE: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? , Are you saying that for ALL assessments I perform I should, as a Consultant provide ALL of the services that you listed, without exception, and for one lump sum price, excluding any analytical charges? I hope I'm misunderstanding. The consulting services that I provide are of a caliber that are second to none. And I do so at reasonable prices. But I have " break points " in the services, which I will provide in a logical progression, as necessary, and as desired and requested by the client for nearly every job. Of course, every job is different, so it's difficult to generalize with a great deal of accuracy. If a client wants an assessment, I do an assessment that is commensurate with the level of the problem expressed or discovered. I do not take unnecessary samples. I photo document, collect instrumental data, perform a detailed visual inspection, not just of the percieved problem area(s), but of a good part of the surrounding areas in larger buildings including the floors above and below at a minimum, inspect and assess building HVAC, plumbing, roofing, ventilation, systems, etc., and then write a report that is commensurate for the project, and the goals of the client, as well. I charge for time. Meaning that I charge more for a larger building and/or AOC than smaller, more for projects that involve sample collection, evaluation & interpretation and a comprehensive report, less if there are no samples necessary, and a letter report will serve the purpose. Reports contain sections that include, among others, results of the inspection including instrumental data, results of lab analyses, if any, interpretation and evaluation of all data gained, and general recommendations for corrective actions. Once the assessment is done, and the report issued, which is what I was hired to perform to begin with, I'm done. That's the first logical break point. IF there is the a need, and the client WANTS me to proceed further with the project, I will do so for additional fees. The next stage, if a respectable amount of remediation is required, is to write a very detailed specification which includes a detailed scope of work, to solicit bids from qualified contractors, conduct a pre-bid meeting and site visit with invited contractors, and if the client so desires, to receive and evaluate the bids on behalf of the client and make recommendations pertaining to the bids and potential award candidates. I pause here in my explaination, because when I briefly described this progression of events before, in another post, Dr. used it as another opportunity to take his usual swipe at consultants in general. Now the REASONs that I put that break point in where I do, first of all, is because I was hired to perform an assessment, not an entire project, and; secondly, because I've had clients in the past who have taken my report, containing a more detailed description of the necessary scope of work (but still NOT a spec), and they've copied it, and given it to contractors to get prices, and the contractors have then brought in their own consultant. Hey, my mother didn't raise any fools, nor am I obligated for what I charge for a very complete and professional assessment to give the farm away. Also, an assessment report is NOT a spec & scope of work. You know, for all the whining that's been going on here about consultants who don't know anything about contracting, etc., I'm apalled that such ignorance exists regarding the difference between an assessment report, a project specification and scope of work. On my planet, it's STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICE to treat those documents and the professional services associated with them, as separate items, along with the bid process, etc. Where did the idea come from that they're all supposed to be in a box for one price like a frigging Happy Meal?? So, yes, , I DO make available all of the services you listed, and more, but they're not all packaged and available at a Mac 's drive thru window on the dollar menu. If someone wants that, they've come to the wrong place, but sadly, there are IEPs out there who will sell you just that. Which is why I'm NOT an IEP. Cheers, over & out, Chuck Reaney , Any professional who takes mold samples and does not provide all materially responsible parties with substantive data and interpretation, scope of work remediation including personalized direction (as necessary) throughout the remediation project, is not doing our industry any favors, and they should leave the business. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Steve, I like that Steve. That is about the extent of any guarantee. Besides, I would like to see how some on this list would defend their work if and when the mold is uncontrolled. Besides controlled could be an undefined concept (for how long and under what conditions). Source removal is the only practice I choose to utilize. That is my control. Bob/Ma. From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of AirwaysEnv@... Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:09 PM To: iequality Subject: Re: Re: When do you follow a IEP's Protocol? In a message dated 2/7/2007 8:05:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, schampioncommspeed (DOT) net writes: Providing warranty on your work is much different than providing a warranty for mold. I am not a contractor, I am a consultant. I did not say that I provided any kind of mold guarantee, nor would I - it's mold. Maybe you should read my post again... I provide a guarantee for mold. I guarantee that if the moisture isn't controlled, the mold will grow back. Steve Temes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 : Oh so well said! I didn’t realize just how rampant this mold issue is with residential real estate transactions until this past year. To express once project of mine, I am retained by an attorney representing the real estate agent and broker. A buyer is making a $100K claim that mold is in his home and is being forced to sell it because his spouse cannot live in a “mold contaminated” home. His claim is based on a home inspection that took 3 tape lifts and based on this, the home inspector stated that there is mold in the walls, ceilings, attic, floors, etc. During an inspection of the home when myself and about 15 other people walked through it, the home looked squeaking clean, dry, etc. I was in great condition. Mediation was yesterday and additional mold tests were to be provided by the buyer, none were. Don’t yet know where this project is going, but the 3-tape life wonder really buggered up this real estate transaction and triggered a lawsuit. , Some, not all home inspectors in southern California unknowingly increase my workload. Many of them rely on labs that provide data and tables of analysis that are not easily understood or the data from 3 tape-lift samples are coming back all Stachybotrys 4+. The labs provide tables as a service for the home inspector because they are not qualified or knowledgeable to interpret the raw data. Based on a few samples, (air or surface) many home inspectors are making assumptions they cannot support, such as - the building has a major mold problem. Often for the building owner, home inspectors and labs are providing poor interpretation judgment about the data as to what it means to an affected area. However, the poor homeowner who is has their building in escrow is now faced with a major decision, and wants to throw money at the problem to make it go away so escrow can close. The homeowner looks to the home inspector for advice and some inspectors bring in their buddy to make the mold problem go away. The labs are using tables and charts as a means of helping home inspectors understand extremely limited data that was sometimes poorly collected. The end result is the labs make money and so do the home inspector. What the data truly means to a homeowner who is looking at their home inspection report with lab tables in my opinion is a poor use of science. Moffett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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