Re: Smarter People More Susceptible to Heavy Metal Toxicity?

[Guest guest]

Heh.

Back in the days of DOS and WordPerfect, I was hired for a week-long

workshop at a major university in Texas, just to introduce their

staff to their new PCs and WordPerfect.

A faculty member who had known me here, and had sat in on my

introductory class in PCs and WordPerfect (which included faculty!)

had then moved to Texas, and I guess he talked them into hiring me

because no one better was around to do the job?!?

LOL

BTW, I want to know more about the differences between American, high-

gluten wheat and the wheat used in other countries. Got a link for

that?

I guess ours is GMO, while theirs probably isn't, right?

> I have noticed that. Basically I make a living based on the fact I

seem

> to have the capacity to talk to " lay people " . It gets really

weird .... I

> was flown out to one place at great expense to teach a class to

> some newbies. After the class was over, I met this guy in the NEXT

> CUBICLE who was basically very advanced, and a nice guy. I asked

> the manager why they didn't just get HIM to teach the newbies. " Oh "

> she said " we can't. He doesn't talk to people " .

>

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>BTW, I want to know more about the differences between American, high-

>gluten wheat and the wheat used in other countries. Got a link for

>that?

>

>I guess ours is GMO, while theirs probably isn't, right?

>

>

The differences began way before GMO. I don't have a link,

but basically in the Northern countries, it was discovered you

could grow wheat (which is basically a warm weather crop) in

the winter with a new breed, " hard winter wheat " . And said

wheat was also progressively bred for more and more " protein "

(read: gluten, it's the same thing). Hard winter wheat is now

highly valued, because it makes such fluffy bread.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>So whatever is causing the gut issues (gluten, heavy metal toxicity, and other

yet

>unknown factors) is certainly wreaking havoc on half a million years of human

evolution !

>

>-Pratick

Yeah, I predict in the next 20 years there will be some GREAT books written

about this. Actually it's almost as if by eating wheat, we've developed a new

species: Homo Apergus, a species that DOES socialize but on a totally

different wavelength, has it's own culture, own language, own interests.

Hang around a group of engineers for a bit and you get the idea. Techies

are DIFFERENT at a very fundamental level: they know it, their bosses know it.

But our entire way of life today is fueled by techies ... who invented this

keyboard, this Internet, these IC chips? Salespeople? Politicians? Religious

leaders?

Managers? I don't think so! GEEKS! Millions of them, each enthralled with

some bit of minutuia for hours upon hours.

In fact, it turns out that the concept of an " alphabet " is really difficult, so

difficult it was only invented a couple of times throughout history ... in

wheat eating countries mainly ...

This was so well described in " A Fire Upon the Deep " (written by an Aspie,

I'm sure).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

--- Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

> Yeah, I predict in the next 20 years there will be some GREAT books written

> about this. Actually it's almost as if by eating wheat, we've developed a new

> species: Homo Apergus, a species that DOES socialize but on a totally

> different wavelength, has it's own culture, own language, own interests.

That's quite likely, and the process started well before the modern high-gluten,

processed foods.

I am pretty sure Engels was an Aspie, and so was Hegel ( " father " of dialectics,

but not

dialectic materialism).

Karl Marx almost certainly was an Aspie - you've only got to read 1/4th of Das

Capital to

realise how his obesession with the *idea* of labour led him to define the

evolution and

progress of the entire human history in terms of the progress of labour.

He was a recluse as well, and not that different from Van Gogh when you think

about it.

The most brilliant icons of ancient history are the pyramids and other creations

by the

Egpytians - one of the first grain eaters.

I have not read NAPD, but I don't think that the " primitives " that WAP studied

were

highly intelligent to the extent of being able to create new concepts of

mathematics,

science and logic.

They were just a bunch of happy, healthy, laid back, satisfied lot

So what this means is that if anyone wants to be the next Newton, Einstein, etc.

load up

on that gluten, baby ;o)

-Pratick

__________________________________

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[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " "

> I'm presenting this information as questions, because I don't have a

> list of articles to present as support for my suspicions.

>

> What do you all think?

I think it is a fascinating theory.....love to see a study done, eh?

--s

[Guest guest]

Sure would!

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " "

>

> > I'm presenting this information as questions, because I don't have

a

> > list of articles to present as support for my suspicions.

> >

> > What do you all think?

>

> I think it is a fascinating theory.....love to see a study done, eh?

>

> --s

[Guest guest]

DH grew up as a wheat farmer. He just told me that the old breed

that farmers originally planted in the Great Plains was Turkey Red

Wheat. German Mennonite farmers brought it with them from

Turkey/Russia.

I did a search for that and found where you can buy it.

http://shop.store./lehimill/turredwheat5.html

Who knew?

>

> >BTW, I want to know more about the differences between American,

high-

> >gluten wheat and the wheat used in other countries. Got a link

for

> >that?

> >

> >I guess ours is GMO, while theirs probably isn't, right?

> >

> >

>

> The differences began way before GMO. I don't have a link,

> but basically in the Northern countries, it was discovered you

> could grow wheat (which is basically a warm weather crop) in

> the winter with a new breed, " hard winter wheat " . And said

> wheat was also progressively bred for more and more " protein "

> (read: gluten, it's the same thing). Hard winter wheat is now

> highly valued, because it makes such fluffy bread.

>

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Nice work if you can get it. ;-)

OTOH, if you want to be one of the elite, running things, being a big

fish in a small pond, sitting in the temple at the top of the

pyramid, then you'd better make sure you have plenty of animal

protein and fat-soluble vitamins in your diet, and minimize the

opioids.

The grain-eating geeks/aspies will be happy to deal with their small

piece of the puzzle, down below you. Just keep those Doritos coming.

> They were just a bunch of happy, healthy, laid back, satisfied

lot

>

> So what this means is that if anyone wants to be the next Newton,

Einstein, etc. load up

> on that gluten, baby ;o)

>

> -Pratick

[Guest guest]

>I have not read NAPD, but I don't think that the " primitives " that WAP studied

were

>highly intelligent to the extent of being able to create new concepts of

mathematics,

>science and logic.

>

>They were just a bunch of happy, healthy, laid back, satisfied lot

>

>So what this means is that if anyone wants to be the next Newton, Einstein,

etc. load up

>on that gluten, baby ;o)

>

>-Pratick

Exactly! The great technological revolutions all happened as soon as we

started eating wheat-grains, even though at that point they were low-gluten

wheat.

Diamond lived with some " primitives " and his take was that

they WERE extremely intelligent. But they weren't the tortured mono-thinker

geniuses like Hegel and Marx and Newton ... they would invent what was

useful and spend the rest of their time talking or making love or making war,

normal human occupations. It takes a decidedly abnormal brain to sit

and think about math for 8 hours at a stretch (reminds me of " A Beautiful Mind "

....).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

wrote:

>OTOH, if you want to be one of the elite, running things, being a big

>fish in a small pond, sitting in the temple at the top of the

>pyramid, then you'd better make sure you have plenty of animal

>protein and fat-soluble vitamins in your diet, and minimize the

>opioids.

THAT would imply smart people on top of the pyramid. Unfortunately

history doesn't show that they were *that* smart ... in Ireland,

for instance, the peasants grew the grain but were not allowed

to eat it. Peasants got potatoes, nobility got grain. What is interesting

about this is that we associate that thin " Prince " face with

the Nobles, but the " peasant face " is " wide, open .... " .

My grandad said about the same thing. Wheat (and cows) were for

rich folks. Of course the rich folks didn't really RUN things either:

a raft of servants actually kept things going. The folks on top

were often kind of crazy and helpless when it came right down

to it ... dressed by servants, fed by servants. So maybe it's the

reverse of the situation today, where us geeks sit at keyboards

scarfing Twinkies.

>The grain-eating geeks/aspies will be happy to deal with their small

>piece of the puzzle, down below you. Just keep those Doritos coming.

In the Warrior Diet, Ori notes that the Romans fed plenty of barley

to the slaves. The " man of the house " did not, supposedly, eat

barley during the day, because it was though that would make him

not as good a fighter if needed. But feeding barley to the slaves

kept them " content " .

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

I'm not necessarily saying that the smartest people were on top of

the pyramids, but probably the most ruthless. You know, with the

philosophy that goes something like this: " Get all you can. Can all

you get. Sit on the can and poison the rest. " ;-)

I have loaned out my copy of NT, but I'm thinking of one of the

sidebar pieces about the Mayans. In their earlier days, they were

of " normal " height, but in a later dynasty, the " peons " were short,

like the typical pygmie, while the nobles were tall. The nobles got

the complete protein, while the peons ate grain.

I spent a week in Belize City in 1981 or so, and spent a lot of time

walking around. One little girl who latched on to us told me that

her favorite food was beans and rice. I guess I had expected it

might be arroz con pollo or something else with meat. They're pretty

poor down there.

I was surprised to see that, in this former capital city, all the

buildings were weather-beaten and no longer painted. The only

building that had relatively fresh paint was the pink convent.

They did have Kentucky Fried Chicken, though. I was really surprised

the day I smelled it!

I've read articles in the recent past that said that Asians living

here, and eating more protein and milk like Americans typically do,

are growing taller than their forebears. Here on campus, I am seeing

that appears to be true.

> THAT would imply smart people on top of the pyramid. Unfortunately

> history doesn't show that they were *that* smart ... in Ireland,

> for instance, the peasants grew the grain but were not allowed

> to eat it. Peasants got potatoes, nobility got grain. What is

interesting

> about this is that we associate that thin " Prince " face with

> the Nobles, but the " peasant face " is " wide, open .... " .

Yeah. Which type do you want as a next door neighbor?

Of course, fashions vary over time. I read somewhere that some

Asians are choosing to use industrially processed vegetable oil these

days because they *want* their children to have narrow faces. It

makes them look more aristocratic. Supposed to improve their chances

in life.

[Guest guest]

>

>I'm not necessarily saying that the smartest people were on top of

>the pyramids, but probably the most ruthless. You know, with the

>philosophy that goes something like this: " Get all you can. Can all

>you get. Sit on the can and poison the rest. " ;-)

>

>I have loaned out my copy of NT, but I'm thinking of one of the

>sidebar pieces about the Mayans. In their earlier days, they were

>of " normal " height, but in a later dynasty, the " peons " were short,

>like the typical pygmie, while the nobles were tall. The nobles got

>the complete protein, while the peons ate grain.

That is a lot of the theory behind early grain production too. Before

we had grains, society was pretty " flat " ... one guy might be a better

hunter, but he couldn't store great amounts of meat. With grains

came cities, armies, and heirarchy. The priesthood and the kinghood (often

the same people) could rule, everyone else could serve.

As far as " smartness " goes though, when I think about it, those

early inventors (Da Vinci, Newton, Van Hoek) were from at least

upper middle class backgrounds, which allowed them to have the

wheat grains AND lots of free time to mess around with inventions.

>I spent a week in Belize City in 1981 or so, and spent a lot of time

>walking around. One little girl who latched on to us told me that

>her favorite food was beans and rice. I guess I had expected it

>might be arroz con pollo or something else with meat. They're pretty

>poor down there.

A lot of countries are so poor and crowded at this point that meat is

really a rarity. That's one of the downfalls of farming .... it allows such

high populations that soon grains are ALL you can eat.

>

>I've read articles in the recent past that said that Asians living

>here, and eating more protein and milk like Americans typically do,

>are growing taller than their forebears. Here on campus, I am seeing

>that appears to be true.

There seems to be some bearing of protein on intelligence too. I was at

a party where everyone worked at one programming project. In a room

of 30 or so guys, about 6 of them were over 6'5 " ! Not just tall, but

super-tall.

Even the Asians were taller than average Asians.

>

>Yeah. Which type do you want as a next door neighbor?

>

>Of course, fashions vary over time. I read somewhere that some

>Asians are choosing to use industrially processed vegetable oil these

>days because they *want* their children to have narrow faces. It

>makes them look more aristocratic. Supposed to improve their chances

>in life.

>

>

Sad part is, it probably DOES improve their chances in life. I wince now when I

see those narrow faces and teeny nostrils on models. I'm surprised the

Asians have it traced back to vegetable oils though. I've been figuring it

has to do with Vit. K. BTW my own kids have parents with narrow faces,

and they are getting these wide faces ... on tall bodies, because we do

eat a lot of protein.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> >I'm not necessarily saying that the smartest people were on top of

> >the pyramids, but probably the most ruthless. You know, with the

> >philosophy that goes something like this: " Get all you can. Can

all

> >you get. Sit on the can and poison the rest. " ;-)

> >

> >I have loaned out my copy of NT, but I'm thinking of one of the

> >sidebar pieces about the Mayans. In their earlier days, they were

> >of " normal " height, but in a later dynasty, the " peons " were

short,

> >like the typical pygmie, while the nobles were tall. The nobles

got

> >the complete protein, while the peons ate grain.

>

> That is a lot of the theory behind early grain production too.

Before

> we had grains, society was pretty " flat " ... one guy might be a

better

> hunter, but he couldn't store great amounts of meat. With grains

> came cities, armies, and heirarchy. The priesthood and the kinghood

(often

> the same people) could rule, everyone else could serve.

>

> As far as " smartness " goes though, when I think about it, those

> early inventors (Da Vinci, Newton, Van Hoek) were from at least

> upper middle class backgrounds, which allowed them to have the

> wheat grains AND lots of free time to mess around with inventions.

>

>

> >I spent a week in Belize City in 1981 or so, and spent a lot of

time

> >walking around. One little girl who latched on to us told me that

> >her favorite food was beans and rice. I guess I had expected it

> >might be arroz con pollo or something else with meat. They're

pretty

> >poor down there.

>

> A lot of countries are so poor and crowded at this point that meat

is

> really a rarity. That's one of the downfalls of farming .... it

allows such

> high populations that soon grains are ALL you can eat.

>

> >

> >I've read articles in the recent past that said that Asians living

> >here, and eating more protein and milk like Americans typically

do,

> >are growing taller than their forebears. Here on campus, I am

seeing

> >that appears to be true.

>

> There seems to be some bearing of protein on intelligence too. I

was at

> a party where everyone worked at one programming project. In a room

> of 30 or so guys, about 6 of them were over 6'5 " ! Not just tall,

but super-tall.

> Even the Asians were taller than average Asians.

>

> >

> >Yeah. Which type do you want as a next door neighbor?

> >

> >Of course, fashions vary over time. I read somewhere that some

> >Asians are choosing to use industrially processed vegetable oil

these

> >days because they *want* their children to have narrow faces. It

> >makes them look more aristocratic. Supposed to improve their

chances

> >in life.

> >

> >

>

> Sad part is, it probably DOES improve their chances in life. I

wince now when I

> see those narrow faces and teeny nostrils on models. I'm surprised

the

> Asians have it traced back to vegetable oils though. I've been

figuring it

> has to do with Vit. K. BTW my own kids have parents with narrow

faces,

> and they are getting these wide faces ... on tall bodies, because

we do

> eat a lot of protein.

>

>

> Heidi Jean

Hello:

May I throw in a question? I am afraid it may appear irrelevant or

too obvious, but anyway... Why are Eskimoes generally short in

stature despite their eating a lot of protein and fat?

[Guest guest]

> Hello:

>

> May I throw in a question? I am afraid it may appear irrelevant or

> too obvious, but anyway... Why are Eskimoes generally short in

> stature despite their eating a lot of protein and fat?

>

>

Good observation! Some say it's Mongolian ancestry before crossing over land

bridge. Others suggest, short stature, adaptation to cold. Wind is colder

higher up, less resistance and body.

I've thought myself with wheat and short stature of Hispanic women who

usually are 5 feet and below. Their native diet is corn not wheat. Asian

women, same with rice.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>Hello:

>

>May I throw in a question? I am afraid it may appear irrelevant or

>too obvious, but anyway... Why are Eskimoes generally short in

>stature despite their eating a lot of protein and fat?

>

>

Good question! The Paleo folks who followed the herds

were rather tall. I don't know about the Inuit though.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> >Why are Eskimoes generally short in

> >stature despite their eating a lot of protein and fat?

> >

It has to do with natural selection and the ability to quickly duck in and out

of the low entrances of igloos undetected during the long months of darkness

that winter brings to the north. ;-)

Bruce

[Guest guest]

Pratick-

>I have not read NAPD, but I don't think that the " primitives " that WAP

>studied were

>highly intelligent to the extent of being able to create new concepts of

>mathematics,

>science and logic.

>

>They were just a bunch of happy, healthy, laid back, satisfied lot

>

>So what this means is that if anyone wants to be the next Newton,

>Einstein, etc. load up

>on that gluten, baby ;o)

Actually, I've read that at least in some cases, anthropologists, upon

visiting healthy native tribes, are astounded by the intelligence of tribe

members. One issue I think you may be ignoring is that healthy

hunter-gatherers don't have any impetus to start solving mathematical and

engineering problems.

-

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>Exactly! The great technological revolutions all happened as soon as we

>started eating wheat-grains, even though at that point they were low-gluten

>wheat.

The wheat-grains, as you call them, came along with the advent of modern

agriculture, and modern agriculture brought a new degree of division of

labor, freeing up some people for the first time for pursuits like

engineering and philosophy.

> Diamond lived with some " primitives " and his take was that

>they WERE extremely intelligent. But they weren't the tortured mono-thinker

>geniuses like Hegel and Marx and Newton ..

Tortured mono-thinking... like Glutenation? <g>

-

[Guest guest]

:

>The wheat-grains, as you call them, came along with the advent of modern

>agriculture, and modern agriculture brought a new degree of division of

>labor, freeing up some people for the first time for pursuits like

>engineering and philosophy.

Right, and that happened with all the grains ... grains start civilization.

But not all civilizations spawned great engineers ... many of them reached

a plateau and stayed there. The Mayans had division of labor, but

never really got into writing, for instance. The Chinese developed

great art and some technology, then stopped.

But you get into the Renaissance and you see a lot of the impetus

being fueled by a handful of guys who are now considered

classic Aspies. Same thing happens today ... folks like Bill Gates

and Steve Jobs.

>> Diamond lived with some " primitives " and his take was that

>>they WERE extremely intelligent. But they weren't the tortured mono-thinker

>>geniuses like Hegel and Marx and Newton ..

>

>Tortured mono-thinking... like Glutenation? <g>

Exactly! If I weren't an Aspie I'd be out at the local bar shooting

pool right now, and there's no way I'd spend hours researching some

little tidbits of information on one subject (which is pretty

much what I do in my WORK life too). I'm not nearly as " tortured "

as I used to be though.

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> :

>

> >The wheat-grains, as you call them, came along with the advent of

modern

> >agriculture, and modern agriculture brought a new degree of

division of

> >labor, freeing up some people for the first time for pursuits like

> >engineering and philosophy.

>

> Right, and that happened with all the grains ... grains start

civilization.

> But not all civilizations spawned great engineers ... many of them

reached

> a plateau and stayed there. The Mayans had division of labor, but

> never really got into writing, for instance. The Chinese developed

> great art and some technology, then stopped.

Hello: I know I am getting into this debate right in the middle, I

don't know everything that has been said before, so I may not be

entitled to take part in it. But I couldn't help remaining silent

after this reference to the Chinese. My question is: why, assuming

that they did stop, did they stop? Was it because they somehow felt

self-contained? Was it because of Confuncianism? What in other words

prevented the Chinese from reaching on their own the same level of

sophisticated and costly technology as Westerners? Certainly it was

not lack of intelligence. What is intelligence after all?

Thanks for your attention.

>

> But you get into the Renaissance and you see a lot of the impetus

> being fueled by a handful of guys who are now considered

> classic Aspies. Same thing happens today ... folks like Bill Gates

> and Steve Jobs.

>

>

> >> Diamond lived with some " primitives " and his take was that

> >>they WERE extremely intelligent. But they weren't the tortured

mono-thinker

> >>geniuses like Hegel and Marx and Newton ..

> >

> >Tortured mono-thinking... like Glutenation? <g>

>

> Exactly! If I weren't an Aspie I'd be out at the local bar shooting

> pool right now, and there's no way I'd spend hours researching some

> little tidbits of information on one subject (which is pretty

> much what I do in my WORK life too). I'm not nearly as " tortured "

> as I used to be though.

>

> >

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Actually, I've read that at least in some cases, anthropologists, upon

> visiting healthy native tribes, are astounded by the intelligence of tribe

> members. One issue I think you may be ignoring is that healthy

> hunter-gatherers don't have any impetus to start solving mathematical and

> engineering problems.

>

>

> -

It seems, that when the purposes got beyond the necessities to daily life

and survival of food, shelter, clothing, water, heat, work to sustain and

adapt the culture's meme to members, environment and art (like the pyramids

and carved idols of Easter Island) that the margin for human errors leading

to internal destruction increased. If egalitarian societies required

anything more than what the small group or a few men, women or children

could do in a short amount of time or more than could be traded for, it

meant more from everything.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>Hello: I know I am getting into this debate right in the middle, I

>don't know everything that has been said before, so I may not be

>entitled to take part in it. But I couldn't help remaining silent

>after this reference to the Chinese. My question is: why, assuming

>that they did stop, did they stop? Was it because they somehow felt

>self-contained? Was it because of Confuncianism? What in other words

>prevented the Chinese from reaching on their own the same level of

>sophisticated and costly technology as Westerners? Certainly it was

>not lack of intelligence. What is intelligence after all?

>

>Thanks for your attention.

>

>

That's one of those big questions of history! I don't think there

is a definitive answer. My own theory, of course, has to do with

Asperger's ... Aspies have this drive to do things just " because " ...

like spend all day and night for weeks to solve some weird

math problem. They get obsessive beyond reason. But it's

a genetic thing, and they are generally NOT in good health

and have high rates of infertility (because of the gluten issue),

so they don't reproduce well.

So, I think that after 500-1000 years of wheat eating, the Aspie

gene gets wiped out, and society settles into a rut, no more

rapid technological innovation. Or, society learns how to handle

wheat in a way that doesn't make people so sick. Either way,

you get fewer Aspies AND you get a healthier population.

All of which is PURELY based on wild speculation on my part.

Also note that I *don't* think Asperger's is actually " intelligence "

in the broad sense. Aspies score higher on " intelligence " tests,

but they also *designed* the intelligence tests. If Tesla had

been " normal " he probably still would have been smart, but

he probably wouldn't have obsessively spent his life playing

with electricity.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>I have not read NAPD, but I don't think that the " primitives " that WAP

>>studied were

>>highly intelligent to the extent of being able to create new concepts of

>>mathematics,

>>science and logic.

>>

Pratick

Early Tool Makers Cast Off Rock Banger Image

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7248 & feedId=online-news_rss20

Here they find hominids 2.34 million years ago used what's now math, science

and logic for stone tool making.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>

>

>

>>Hello: I know I am getting into this debate right in the middle, I

>>don't know everything that has been said before, so I may not be

>>entitled to take part in it. But I couldn't help remaining silent

>>after this reference to the Chinese. My question is: why, assuming

>>that they did stop, did they stop? Was it because they somehow felt

>>self-contained? Was it because of Confuncianism? What in other words

>>prevented the Chinese from reaching on their own the same level of

>>sophisticated and costly technology as Westerners? Certainly it was

>>not lack of intelligence. What is intelligence after all?

>>

>>Thanks for your attention.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>That's one of those big questions of history! I don't think there

>is a definitive answer. My own theory, of course, has to do with

>Asperger's ... Aspies have this drive to do things just " because " ...

>like spend all day and night for weeks to solve some weird

>math problem. They get obsessive beyond reason. But it's

>a genetic thing, and they are generally NOT in good health

>and have high rates of infertility (because of the gluten issue),

>so they don't reproduce well.

>

>So, I think that after 500-1000 years of wheat eating, the Aspie

>gene gets wiped out, and society settles into a rut, no more

>rapid technological innovation. Or, society learns how to handle

>wheat in a way that doesn't make people so sick. Either way,

>you get fewer Aspies AND you get a healthier population.

>

>All of which is PURELY based on wild speculation on my part.

>

>Also note that I *don't* think Asperger's is actually " intelligence "

>in the broad sense. Aspies score higher on " intelligence " tests,

>but they also *designed* the intelligence tests. If Tesla had

>been " normal " he probably still would have been smart, but

>he probably wouldn't have obsessively spent his life playing

>with electricity.

>

>

>Heidi Jean

>

>

Interesting speculation. Might there be some ethnocentrism at work here

too? The Chinese were printing materials a millennium before we

westerners were, or some such advancement. Music in the orient is also

different. In India, the entire thing is so different than in the west,

obviously I am no musician and can give no justice. Also, the

psychology of east and west is different. From my yoga practice, citta

and manas are separate, whereas in the west it is only " mind. "

Thus, I would not think that it is such a general thing that can be

pinpointed within a culture - " intelligence. " _GG & S_, by Diamond

gets into some of this. And Heidi, I think you have some good ground to

go on, but to sweep the west into some aspie background, may be too far

gone. It may be that we discount the accomplishments of those with

differing cultures far more than we'd like to account for. And what has

civilization really given us beyond guns, germs and steel? I would say

forced socialization on a massive ever burgeoning scale. Maybe aspies

are the normal folk, those that handle mass population well are loony.

Deanna

" Do, or do not. There is no try. " ~ Yoda

[Guest guest]

>Thus, I would not think that it is such a general thing that can be

>pinpointed within a culture - " intelligence. " _GG & S_, by Diamond

>gets into some of this. And Heidi, I think you have some good ground to

>go on, but to sweep the west into some aspie background, may be too far

>gone. It may be that we discount the accomplishments of those with

>differing cultures far more than we'd like to account for. And what has

>civilization really given us beyond guns, germs and steel? I would say

>forced socialization on a massive ever burgeoning scale. Maybe aspies

>are the normal folk, those that handle mass population well are loony.

>

>Deanna

> " Do, or do not. There is no try. " ~ Yoda

I'm really NOT trying to discount the Asians. They seem far more

rational than the West has been! Like most Aspies, I like the way

I am far better than the way most " normal " people are, and in fact

most of the people I actually socialize with are " like me " .

I really don't know the answer, nor claim to. The best discussion

of the whole issue I've found has been in the realms of Sci Fi ...

well, most of the writers are Aspies! If you read it a lot, it's almost

like a discussion of the whole issue of Asperger's. The Rational

vs. The Social.

The Asians are a really interesting case. They live close, but

the " social norms " are often more like Aspies than like the average

Westerner. They've been " civilized " a whole lot longer, and that

seems to have changed their makeup. I don't have enough background

to speak with any authority, except that it fascinates me. I had a number

of close friends who were Asian (Korean, Chinese, Japanese) and

while I was never able to figure them out completely, I still remain

somewhat in awe.

As for " who is normal " ... I don't know either. In a Darwinian sense,

it doesn't matter .. I mean, the first birds weren't " normal " ... flying was

a really weird thing. Could be Aspies are the first of a new type of

human. Hyper growth of brain cells might not be a bad thing.

Deterioration of the gut and anxiety and infertility IS a bad thing

though ... the question is, is the brain cell issue separate from the

gut issue, or what? I don't know. My great-granddad was, according

to his son, one of the farmers who was always innovative and

trying new things. But he died early. His son was much the same,

didn't die early but was always depressed, as was his son, my Dad.

I spent most of my life depressed (but highly productive!) and now

I'm NOT depressed but more productive. I wonder how that lineage

would have progressed, minus the wheat. My own kids I can

experiment on. So far, they don't have wheat, but they still have

the hyper brain cells. No depression.

So we wait for the next generation ...

Heidi Jean