Re: A Fall From Dominance (My Little Theory for the Cause of PSSD)

[Guest guest]

I hope I didn't trivialize the difficulty of beating depression. It's certainly

not an easy thing

to do. It took me years, and I'm sure many people here have even tougher cases

than I did.

With that said, I think a lot of people here were put on SSRIs for relatively

minor

depression. In many cases I do think that Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and some

simple

lifestyle changes may be the key to beating it.

My depression had a number of causes:

1) I was naturally very ambitious, but I was stupid about it and set myself up

for failure too

often by biting off more than I could swallow. The goals themselves weren't

unrealitstic,

but I needed to learn to take things step-by-step instead of expecting instant

success and

glory. Failure made me depressed and apathetic. Apathy kept me depressed.

2) My extreme anxiety made me depressed and my depression made me anxious. I had

to

break the cycle.

3) I was so depressed and anxious that I neglected taking care of myself. A good

diet,

exercise and stable social relationships are necessary but not necessarily

sufficient for

mental health.

4) I beat the anxiety by exposing myself to anxiety producing situations during

times

when I was best suited to have success in those situations. For example, I would

only go to

parties when I was unusually well rested, funny and anxiety-free (usually after

a hard

workout). This way the ratio of 'good party experiences' to 'bad party

experiences' rose

and I my anticipatory anxiety started to dissipate, and allow me to have good

experiences

at parties more and more often. The same technique worked for public speaking

and all

other uncomfortable situations. Of course it was a lot of work just to get to

this point.

Before this, every experience, no matter how mundane, was anxiety provoking.

Most people can get over their anxiety issues if they systematically identify

what behaviors

and thought patterns are causing their problems and then work slowly to change

them. It

takes a long time for us to rewire our brains in this manner, but I'm convinced

that it can

usually be done.

> > > >

> > > > I posted most of this in a different thread, but I've expanded the

> > idea a bit.

> > > >

> > > > THE CAUSE:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Whether we know it or not, we're all jostling for social

> > dominance. Our desire to

> > " keep

> > > > up with the 's " , aquire job promotions and date the prettiest

> > girls are behavioral

> > > > relics of our caveman instincts to aquire dominance. In our

> > caveman ancestors an

> > > increase

> > > > in social dominance led to an increase in social power and mating

> > opportunities. This

> > > > increased biological fitness led to a perpetuation of these

> > dominance persuing traits.

> > > >

> > > > 2) This dominance persuing behavior isn't unique to humans. Most

> > social animals

> > have a

> > > > similar structure. Personally I believe that our dominance system

> > is more complex, in

> > > that

> > > > it is divided into domains. An individual may have an accepted

> > level of dominance

> > within

> > > a

> > > > particular group for a particular domain, but a different position

> > in another domain in

> > > the

> > > > same group. So a person might have a high dominance level on the

> > baseball field or

> > the

> > > > kitchen, but less in the bar or at work.

> > > >

> > > > 3) The presence of a high level of serotonin in a specific part of

> > our brains (I

> > > > forget which) has been shown by some experiments to mediate

> > dominance pursuing

> > > > behavior in primates. If dominance is achieved, the serotonin

> > levels remain elevated.

> > If

> > > the

> > > > individual fails to achieve dominance, the levels will lower until

> > another promising

> > > > opportunity arises.

> > > >

> > > > 4) In some primates, once a domint individual loses dominance, the

> > individuals tend

> > to

> > > > never again resume dominance seeking behavior, and seem to

> > experience major

> > > > personality and affect changes. This may be an adaptive response

> > caused by a change

> > in

> > > > gene expression. The dethroned individual's best bet for survival

> > is to lay low, and

> > avoid

> > > > angering the individual or coalition that dethroned him. These

> > gene expression

> > changes

> > > > may induce dramatic changes to their sexual behavior, preventing

> > them from being

> > > > attacked or killed. In hamsters, at least, these changes can even

> > lead to a reduction in

> > > > testicle size.

> > > >

> > > > We took drugs that greatly increased the levels of serotonin in

> > our brains for a

> > > prolonged

> > > > period of time. The exposure to serotonin at such high levels and

> > for so long, may

> > have

> > > > convinced at least part of our brains that we had become a

> > dominant individual of our

> > > > group. Perhaps, upon discontinuation, this part of our brains

> > behaved as if we were

> > > > usurped from a dominant position, to that of a submissive

> > individual, and changed

> > the

> > > > expression of our genes to reflect that. Maybe it made us like the

> > dethroned chimp or

> > > > hamster, and we act as such (particularly in regard to our sexual

> > pursuits).

> > > >

> > > > STRATEGIES FOR PSSD REVERSAL:

> > > >

> > > > If my theory is correct, the logical solution is to naturally

> > raise our levels of social

> > > > dominance. With luck, this should undo the gene expression

> > changes. This process

> > may

> > > > be temporarily mimicked by the use of drugs, but I suspect that a

> > natural approach

> > will

> > > be

> > > > safer and more sustainable.

> > > >

> > > > Since human dominance appears to be split into domains, it seems

> > reasonable to start

> > > by

> > > > trying to improve on just one or a few domains. No one can be

> > great at everything.

> > > Some

> > > > suggestions for dominance raising activities include:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Volunteering

> > > > 2) Joining an academic or sporting group or team

> > > > 3) Becoming an expert in an area of academic interest.

> > > > 4) Weight-lifting, running

> > > > 5) Dressing well; smelling good

> > > >

> > > > The more socially oriented an activity, the most likely it is to

> > be successful. The

> > results

> > > > won't come directly from gaining skills in an area, but from the

> > brain's sensing of the

> > > > recognition of others that you are good at what you do.

> > > >

> > > > Others won't be likely to grant an increases in position if you

> > are depressed or

> > anxious. I

> > > > know it's easier said than done, but it's important to rid as much

> > depression and

> > anxiety

> > > > from your life as possible. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is

> > probably the way to go

> > here,

> > > > although I had great success in changing my patterns of

> > maladaptive thinking and

> > > > behaviors without the help of a therapist. I'm sure there must be

> > CB self-help books

> > out

> > > > there. I took a lot of psych classes in college, so I just used a

> > mix of common sense

> > and

> > > > the stuff I learned in class. In short:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Get enough sleep

> > > > 2) Eat right

> > > > 3) Identify self-defeating attitudes and thought patterns and

> > change them

> > > > 4) Dress well. This will raise your self esteem

> > > > 5) Accomplish as much as you can. Succeed as much as possible

> > every day.

> > > > 6) Have plans for the future that are both ambitious and

> > attainable. They should

> > > > complement your existing talents and skill sets.

> > > >

> > > > These things were the key for me to overcome my severe anxiety and

> > depression.

> > They

> > > > probably won't work for everbody, but my guess is that they are a

> > good start. Do what

> > > > works for you.

> > > >

> > > > I am more or less recovered now. I believe these are the changes

> > that I made to reach

> > > this

> > > > point. I really hope this helps some people.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You don't come across as naive and you raise some good points. I'll expand on my

idea.

Hopefully this will clarify things a little.

The presence of serotonin is just one factor influencing dominance seeking

behavior.

Testosterone is also a factor. I'm no expert on the lit, but I have seen studies

that suggest

that it's the ratios of these two chemicals that mediate dominance seeking

behavior. High

testosterone males with low serotonin tend to be violence-prone, for example.

My point is that just one dominance mediating factor, serotonin, was influenced

directly by

these drugs. This doesn't mean that SSRI users are just like dominant

individuals, either

chemically or behaviorally. I'm sure a whole constellation of changes occur in

the mind of

a newly dominant individual that don't occur when someone is treated with SSRIs.

For

example, users of SSRIs experience very different social feedback compared to

people with

naturally dominant people with high levels of serotonin. Their testosterone and

other

neurotransmitter levels are probably different from a 'natural dom' as well.

Likewise the SSRIs load other portions of the brain with serotonin, which may be

counter-

productive to dominance seeking behavior. The brain has the luxory of secreting

it's

chemicals with spacial specificity. SSRIs just carpet bomb the brain.

What I suspect the SSRIs did is fool an important sexual system of our brains

into thinking

that we have fallen from dominance, even though we weren't necessarily truly

dominant to

begin with. So taking more SSRIs probably isn't the answer. They may convince

that one

system of our brain of our dominance, but they are likely to cause sexual

problems of

their own while we are taking them. They just selectively throw one system out

of wack in

regards to dominance. We want to put it back on track. I think that gaining some

degree of

natural dominance is a good strategy toward this end.

Looking back, it does seem strange that I posit different causes for the sexual

dysfunction

experienced while on SSRIs versus that which occurs after discontinuing them. It

is worth

noting that several members of this forum only experienced sexual problems after

they

discontinues SSRIs and not before. My theory works very neatly for this group.

The solution to this weirdness might come from another of my sudo-theories. I've

long

noticed that when I feel on top of the world, confident and powerful I can last

a very long

time in bed. When I'm down, and not feelings so socially adept, I can't last

very long at all.

I know this doesn't exactly constitute data, but it would make sense from an

evolutionary

standpoint for subordinate individuals to finish quickly. They don't get as many

opportunities for mating, so if they get interrupted, they may lose an important

chance to

impregnate. They could also get in trouble for messing with someone elses harem,

and

finishing quickly ameliorates this risk. Dominant males would be expected to

last longer

because doing so demonstrates their superior social position to the female. He's

under

control, he's not worries about being found out, and he's confident that he'll

have

numerous other opportunities to mate, so if he doesn't finish it's no big deal.

Now notice how Serotonin levels are high in dominant individuals as well as

individuals

taking SSRIs and how both can last a very long time in bed (theoretically anyway

for the

dom males). I think the sexual numbness from SSRIs is caused by the serotonin,

which

lowers the sensitivity of our genitals as if we were dominant. What it doesn't

do, is make

us truly dominant. Whatever chemicals that need to be changed to keep sex

pleasurable

even though we have lost sensitivity, aren't adjusted and we are often left with

less

interest in sex while on the drug. I do think the root of this phenomenon is

different from

PSSD, which I think is caused by our body accepting post-dom status.

Ok, that's enough speculation for now...

> Also, are there any 'dominant' users of this forum who suffer PSSD

> regardless of social status?

I'd love to know the answer to this question too!

>

> This thread makes for interesting reading. I've noticed since quitting

> my Prozac 4 years back, my anger levels are very low and I feel very

> meek and 'mellow' as a person. I'm finding the 'man urge', the urge to

> compete or win, is very hard to conjure up because the need doesn't

> seem to be there. I've been thinking over the last few months that if I

> had some anger, some desire to win, maybe my libido would return in

> some form (it's HEAVILY reduced and is driving me nuts!!!) I mean, I

> DO 'win' quite a lot but I don't even care! I put it down to 'turning

> mature' over the years, but realise I've become overly-benign and

> devoid of pasion. I'm definitely a good guy, but I feel weak, like

> Austin Powers losing his mojo.

>

> What I'm wondering is: if you have developed PSSD after quitting meds

> and the theory about heightened serotonin creating feelings of

> dominance, would re-taking meds and the serotonin boost it creates

> reverse PSSD? And, if so, how come many people who go back on meds

> still suffer sexual problems?

>

> Sorry if I come across as naive, here.

>

> Also, are there any 'dominant' users of this forum who suffer PSSD

> regardless of social status?

>

[Guest guest]

Very good points biologic,biologic1981 wrote: You don't come across as naive and you raise some good points. I'll expand on my idea. Hopefully this will clarify things a little. The presence of serotonin is just one factor influencing dominance seeking behavior. Testosterone is also a factor. I'm no expert on the lit, but I have seen studies that suggest that it's the ratios of these two chemicals that mediate dominance seeking behavior. High testosterone males with low serotonin

tend to be violence-prone, for example. My point is that just one dominance mediating factor, serotonin, was influenced directly by these drugs. This doesn't mean that SSRI users are just like dominant individuals, either chemically or behaviorally. I'm sure a whole constellation of changes occur in the mind of a newly dominant individual that don't occur when someone is treated with SSRIs. For example, users of SSRIs experience very different social feedback compared to people with naturally dominant people with high levels of serotonin. Their testosterone and other neurotransmitter levels are probably different from a 'natural dom' as well. Likewise the SSRIs load other portions of the brain with serotonin, which may be counter- productive to dominance seeking behavior. The brain has the luxory of secreting it's chemicals with spacial specificity. SSRIs just carpet bomb the brain. What I suspect the SSRIs

did is fool an important sexual system of our brains into thinking that we have fallen from dominance, even though we weren't necessarily truly dominant to begin with. So taking more SSRIs probably isn't the answer. They may convince that one system of our brain of our dominance, but they are likely to cause sexual problems of their own while we are taking them. They just selectively throw one system out of wack in regards to dominance. We want to put it back on track. I think that gaining some degree of natural dominance is a good strategy toward this end. Looking back, it does seem strange that I posit different causes for the sexual dysfunction experienced while on SSRIs versus that which occurs after discontinuing them. It is worth noting that several members of this forum only experienced sexual problems after they discontinues SSRIs and not before. My theory works very neatly for this group. The

solution to this weirdness might come from another of my sudo-theories. I've long noticed that when I feel on top of the world, confident and powerful I can last a very long time in bed. When I'm down, and not feelings so socially adept, I can't last very long at all. I know this doesn't exactly constitute data, but it would make sense from an evolutionary standpoint for subordinate individuals to finish quickly. They don't get as many opportunities for mating, so if they get interrupted, they may lose an important chance to impregnate. They could also get in trouble for messing with someone elses harem, and finishing quickly ameliorates this risk. Dominant males would be expected to last longer because doing so demonstrates their superior social position to the female. He's under control, he's not worries about being found out, and he's confident that he'll have numerous other opportunities to mate, so if he doesn't

finish it's no big deal. Now notice how Serotonin levels are high in dominant individuals as well as individuals taking SSRIs and how both can last a very long time in bed (theoretically anyway for the dom males). I think the sexual numbness from SSRIs is caused by the serotonin, which lowers the sensitivity of our genitals as if we were dominant. What it doesn't do, is make us truly dominant. Whatever chemicals that need to be changed to keep sex pleasurable even though we have lost sensitivity, aren't adjusted and we are often left with less interest in sex while on the drug. I do think the root of this phenomenon is different from PSSD, which I think is caused by our body accepting post-dom status. Ok, that's enough speculation for now... > Also, are there any 'dominant' users of this forum who suffer PSSD > regardless of social status? I'd love to know the answer to this question too!

> > This thread makes for interesting reading. I've noticed since quitting > my Prozac 4 years back, my anger levels are very low and I feel very > meek and 'mellow' as a person. I'm finding the 'man urge', the urge to > compete or win, is very hard to conjure up because the need doesn't > seem to be there. I've been thinking over the last few months that if I > had some anger, some desire to win, maybe my libido would return in > some form (it's HEAVILY reduced and is driving me nuts!!!) I mean, I > DO 'win' quite a lot but I don't even care! I put it down to 'turning > mature' over the years, but realise I've become overly-benign and > devoid of pasion. I'm definitely a good guy, but I feel weak, like > Austin Powers losing his

mojo. > > What I'm wondering is: if you have developed PSSD after quitting meds > and the theory about heightened serotonin creating feelings of > dominance, would re-taking meds and the serotonin boost it creates > reverse PSSD? And, if so, how come many people who go back on meds > still suffer sexual problems? > > Sorry if I come across as naive, here. > > Also, are there any 'dominant' users of this forum who suffer PSSD > regardless of social status? >

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out

new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Guest guest]

I`m not going to rap about it but I really dont see what this theory

has to do with PSSD.The positive social behaviour youve outlined as

strategies for PSSD reversal may help certain people come to terms

with issues of self esteem or depression but they have no real

significance to reversing PSSD.

1) Volunteering - In the last 11 years that I`ve had PSSD ive

volunteered for more projects/causes than I could possibly

recall.None of which have ever reversed my Prozac induced impotence.

2)Joining an academic or sporting group or team - In the past 11

years I have joined many teams .I`ve played 5 - aside soccer for

charity tornaments many times.I`ve joined a number of different

classes and studied different subjects.I`ve been active in enjoying

and teaching in sports/martial arts.

3)Becoming an expert in an area of academic interest - Now a lot

of people have taken SSRI`s and supposedly recovered and they dont

all have degrees.I know a few people who have degrees who have had

sexual dysfunction caused by SSRI`s for years after discontinuing.

4) Weight-lifting, running - In the last 11 years ive done some

weight lifting and a lot of running.It has made no impact on my

Prozac - induced impotence.

5)Dressing well; smelling good - it was at the point of reading this

that I couldnt believe what I was reading.I have not been advised

that I dont properly dress and have not yet been informed by any

member of my family or friends that I stink.Had I done so I would

have considered this to be a matter not related to post SSRI sexual

dysfunction but dress-sense and hygiene.

There is very little thats actually understood about the function

of Serotonin in the body.You only have to look on our files and read

about the Serotonin Myth to see that.

We`ve got Prozac to treat `depressed` ;

adults,teenagers,infants,peadophiles,dogs -whats next, aliens?

Despite the fact that not one single biological cause has been found

for any form of mental illness youve managed to come up with the

PSSD recovery check list!

If I want to read a comic I `ll pick up the DSM.

[Guest guest]

Overall I think biologic is a breath of fresh air to the group for

his " outside the box " thinking. A lot of people here seem to either

be waiting for some miracle cure, or have accepted their fate and

choose to spend their time bitching about it (or rapping about it)

rather than seek out ways to get better.

I don't agree with all of what biologic says either, but I think the

gist of it is you can improve if you simply change your mindset and

eliminate bad habits. I began going down this road several months

ago and have seen some obvious improvement. Am I cured? Not by a

long shot. But I believe the foundation is in place to get to the

next level. I couldn't say that a year ago.

It's very easy to get stuck in the circle of negativity and self-

doubt. Breaking this cycle could be the first step towards recovery.

Luther

>

>

> I`m not going to rap about it but I really dont see what this

theory

> has to do with PSSD.The positive social behaviour youve outlined

as

> strategies for PSSD reversal may help certain people come to terms

> with issues of self esteem or depression but they have no real

> significance to reversing PSSD.

>

>

> 1) Volunteering - In the last 11 years that I`ve had PSSD ive

> volunteered for more projects/causes than I could possibly

> recall.None of which have ever reversed my Prozac induced

impotence.

>

> 2)Joining an academic or sporting group or team - In the past 11

> years I have joined many teams .I`ve played 5 - aside soccer for

> charity tornaments many times.I`ve joined a number of different

> classes and studied different subjects.I`ve been active in

enjoying

> and teaching in sports/martial arts.

>

> 3)Becoming an expert in an area of academic interest - Now a

lot

> of people have taken SSRI`s and supposedly recovered and they

dont

> all have degrees.I know a few people who have degrees who have had

> sexual dysfunction caused by SSRI`s for years after discontinuing.

>

> 4) Weight-lifting, running - In the last 11 years ive done some

> weight lifting and a lot of running.It has made no impact on my

> Prozac - induced impotence.

>

> 5)Dressing well; smelling good - it was at the point of reading

this

> that I couldnt believe what I was reading.I have not been advised

> that I dont properly dress and have not yet been informed by any

> member of my family or friends that I stink.Had I done so I would

> have considered this to be a matter not related to post SSRI

sexual

> dysfunction but dress-sense and hygiene.

>

> There is very little thats actually understood about the

function

> of Serotonin in the body.You only have to look on our files and

read

> about the Serotonin Myth to see that.

>

> We`ve got Prozac to treat `depressed` ;

> adults,teenagers,infants,peadophiles,dogs -whats next, aliens?

> Despite the fact that not one single biological cause has been

found

> for any form of mental illness youve managed to come up with the

> PSSD recovery check list!

>

> If I want to read a comic I `ll pick up the DSM.

>

[Guest guest]

My post wasnt designed to pick a fight.I have no axe to grind against

you or anyone.I`m glad that you have made some recovery and if anyone

else benefits from the advice then good.

If your post had said " strategies for reversal of depression " I would

not have expressed any difference of opinion which is why I said that

I believe they may help with self -esteem or depression.

The " strategies for PSSD reversal " that you listed I felt was akin to

the kind of misdiagnosing that our doctors have done telling us that

our sexual dysfunction is psychologically caused.

I thought that they were a bit bizarre and that for people who dont

have PSSD or are learning about it that this was misleading

information.That is why I posted.

[Guest guest]

I have an update for those who are interested. The PSSD is a problem for me

again. My

girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was mutual). I operate my own

graphics business/

freelance thing, and have been working some crazy hours, and not taking care of

myself the

way I should. Because I work at home I have had very little social interaction

lately. Basically

I've been doing the opposite of everything I was doing that I believe was

helping me recover.

Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I realize just how much progress I had

made. I visited

a 'friend' in Chicago and we messed around and it was just like the bad old

days. I had very

little sensitivity and couldn't get it up much at all, which hadn't been a

problem for months. It

really sucked because I wasn't any damn good either. It's funny how much of sex

is

instinctual. When my instincts are cooperating I feel like a sex god; when

they're not I kinda

suck...

I have a couple big projects to finish up, and then I think I can resume my

previously lucrative

social life once again. Once that happens I'm confident I will be fine again,

but for now I've

sort of hit a low point. On the plus side I've been exploding with some

intellectually grand

ideas, something that's always been more important to me than anything else

including sex.

If nothing else, this is a useful experiment. When I get better again I can

narrow down just

what it is that made me recover so dramatically last time.

[Guest guest]

I think this pretty much clarifies that PSSD is not so much an issue

of going away with time. It is more about finding what brings your

brain back to normal functioning. For whatever reason, Biologic was

able to bring his brain back to somewhat normal functioning for

awhile. It seems that he was able to do this with an attitude

adjustment which somehow changed the level of chemicals in his

brain. What's cool is that he was able to do it naturally somehow.

I have had momentary times when this has happened to me but never for

a couple weeks or months like Biologic.

Let's be realistic though. Drugs brought us into this, so drugs are

going to take us out of this. Which drugs are best right now? Most

successful treatments are Adderall and Welbutrin, though Welbutrin

didn't help me all that much and Aderall is showing me some

improvements, guess I should be happy about that though.

Now which drugs are really likely to help? Bremelanotide or

Melanotide II. One or the other. These drugs have been proven to

give men spontaneous erections and horniness all throughout the day.

Even the men whom Viagra didn't work for. They're tough to get right

now, you have to inject yourself, and they're hella expensive, but if

you really really want to cure yourself and you have the money, go

for it. Why waste your time any longer.

>

> I have an update for those who are interested. The PSSD is a

problem for me again. My

> girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was mutual). I operate

my own graphics business/

> freelance thing, and have been working some crazy hours, and not

taking care of myself the

> way I should. Because I work at home I have had very little social

interaction lately. Basically

> I've been doing the opposite of everything I was doing that I

believe was helping me recover.

>

> Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I realize just how much

progress I had made. I visited

> a 'friend' in Chicago and we messed around and it was just like the

bad old days. I had very

> little sensitivity and couldn't get it up much at all, which hadn't

been a problem for months. It

> really sucked because I wasn't any damn good either. It's funny how

much of sex is

> instinctual. When my instincts are cooperating I feel like a sex

god; when they're not I kinda

> suck...

>

> I have a couple big projects to finish up, and then I think I can

resume my previously lucrative

> social life once again. Once that happens I'm confident I will be

fine again, but for now I've

> sort of hit a low point. On the plus side I've been exploding with

some intellectually grand

> ideas, something that's always been more important to me than

anything else including sex.

>

> If nothing else, this is a useful experiment. When I get better

again I can narrow down just

> what it is that made me recover so dramatically last time.

>

[Guest guest]

As I've been getting a grip on things, I'm getting

better again. I really let things get out of hand

before. My libido and everything was actually quite

resilient. My body and mind took a lot before I went

down hill again. Even if my theory is BS, something

positive is going on here.

I would also like to reiterate that I think that the

changes I made to my environment and habits is what

has helped with my PSSD. My attitude improved as a

result, but I don't think it is the cause of my

improvement.

--- brianbeezly wrote:

> I think this pretty much clarifies that PSSD is not

> so much an issue

> of going away with time. It is more about finding

> what brings your

> brain back to normal functioning. For whatever

> reason, Biologic was

> able to bring his brain back to somewhat normal

> functioning for

> awhile. It seems that he was able to do this with

> an attitude

> adjustment which somehow changed the level of

> chemicals in his

> brain. What's cool is that he was able to do it

> naturally somehow.

> I have had momentary times when this has happened to

> me but never for

> a couple weeks or months like Biologic.

>

> Let's be realistic though. Drugs brought us into

> this, so drugs are

> going to take us out of this. Which drugs are best

> right now? Most

> successful treatments are Adderall and Welbutrin,

> though Welbutrin

> didn't help me all that much and Aderall is showing

> me some

> improvements, guess I should be happy about that

> though.

>

> Now which drugs are really likely to help?

> Bremelanotide or

> Melanotide II. One or the other. These drugs have

> been proven to

> give men spontaneous erections and horniness all

> throughout the day.

> Even the men whom Viagra didn't work for. They're

> tough to get right

> now, you have to inject yourself, and they're hella

> expensive, but if

> you really really want to cure yourself and you have

> the money, go

> for it. Why waste your time any longer.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I have an update for those who are interested. The

> PSSD is a

> problem for me again. My

> > girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was

> mutual). I operate

> my own graphics business/

> > freelance thing, and have been working some crazy

> hours, and not

> taking care of myself the

> > way I should. Because I work at home I have had

> very little social

> interaction lately. Basically

> > I've been doing the opposite of everything I was

> doing that I

> believe was helping me recover.

> >

> > Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I realize

> just how much

> progress I had made. I visited

> > a 'friend' in Chicago and we messed around and it

> was just like the

> bad old days. I had very

> > little sensitivity and couldn't get it up much at

> all, which hadn't

> been a problem for months. It

> > really sucked because I wasn't any damn good

> either. It's funny how

> much of sex is

> > instinctual. When my instincts are cooperating I

> feel like a sex

> god; when they're not I kinda

> > suck...

> >

> > I have a couple big projects to finish up, and

> then I think I can

> resume my previously lucrative

> > social life once again. Once that happens I'm

> confident I will be

> fine again, but for now I've

> > sort of hit a low point. On the plus side I've

> been exploding with

> some intellectually grand

> > ideas, something that's always been more important

> to me than

> anything else including sex.

> >

> > If nothing else, this is a useful experiment. When

> I get better

> again I can narrow down just

> > what it is that made me recover so dramatically

> last time.

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, or suggest changes in life/attitude can't have a huge effect on how you feel, but I don't see how you KNOW for a fact that it is these changes that resulted in you getting better in regards to your PSSD. I mean, isn't the most logical assumption that enough time passed? I realize that not just your sex life has improved, but your emotions as well, but time can do that too. I'm just wondering if there is any real specific reason you feel like it was your lifestyle changes that did it for 100% sure, when we all know so little about this condition, and also when time itslef tends to be the primary factor in recovery (for those who get better enough to be considered recovering.) Because honestly, if my PSSD just started getting better, I would feel like I had a whole new outlook on life too. Look I'm not in anyway denying that something great is happening for you, it's just that your

description of how things have improved for you sounds exactly like how things go for the people who just start getting better after enough time. Saetre wrote: As I've been getting a grip on things, I'm gettingbetter again. I really let things get out of handbefore. My libido and everything was actually quiteresilient. My body and mind took a lot before I wentdown hill again. Even if my theory is BS, somethingpositive is going on here.I would also like to

reiterate that I think that thechanges I made to my environment and habits is whathas helped with my PSSD. My attitude improved as aresult, but I don't think it is the cause of myimprovement.--- brianbeezly <brianbeezly> wrote:> I think this pretty much clarifies that PSSD is not> so much an issue > of going away with time. It is more about finding> what brings your > brain back to normal functioning. For whatever> reason, Biologic was > able to bring his brain back to somewhat normal> functioning for > awhile. It seems that he was able to do this with> an attitude > adjustment which somehow changed the level of> chemicals in his > brain. What's cool is that he was able to do it> naturally somehow.> I have had momentary times when this has happened to> me but never for

> a couple weeks or months like Biologic.> > Let's be realistic though. Drugs brought us into> this, so drugs are > going to take us out of this. Which drugs are best> right now? Most > successful treatments are Adderall and Welbutrin,> though Welbutrin > didn't help me all that much and Aderall is showing> me some > improvements, guess I should be happy about that> though. > > Now which drugs are really likely to help? > Bremelanotide or > Melanotide II. One or the other. These drugs have> been proven to > give men spontaneous erections and horniness all> throughout the day. > Even the men whom Viagra didn't work for. They're> tough to get right > now, you have to inject yourself, and they're hella> expensive, but if > you really really want to cure yourself and you have> the money, go > for

it. Why waste your time any longer. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > I have an update for those who are interested. The> PSSD is a > problem for me again. My > > girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was> mutual). I operate > my own graphics business/> > freelance thing, and have been working some crazy> hours, and not > taking care of myself the > > way I should. Because I work at home I have had> very little social > interaction lately. Basically > > I've been doing the opposite of everything I was> doing that I > believe was helping me recover.> > > > Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I realize>

just how much > progress I had made. I visited > > a 'friend' in Chicago and we messed around and it> was just like the > bad old days. I had very > > little sensitivity and couldn't get it up much at> all, which hadn't > been a problem for months. It > > really sucked because I wasn't any damn good> either. It's funny how > much of sex is > > instinctual. When my instincts are cooperating I> feel like a sex > god; when they're not I kinda > > suck...> > > > I have a couple big projects to finish up, and> then I think I can > resume my previously lucrative > > social life once again. Once that happens I'm> confident I will be > fine again, but for now I've > > sort of hit a low point. On the plus side I've> been exploding with > some intellectually grand > > ideas,

something that's always been more important> to me than > anything else including sex.> > > > If nothing else, this is a useful experiment. When> I get better > again I can narrow down just > > what it is that made me recover so dramatically> last time.> >> > > __________________________________________________________Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html

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[Guest guest]

Well, I can't say I know anything for a fact, but here is my evidence.

My anxiety and depression were definitely caused by those factors mentioned in

my first

post. Even now, if I go a couple days without accomplishment, or without getting

enough

sleep, or let myself get dehydrated, I will get depressed and anxious. It was

all about

learning about and correcting the little things in my environment that led to my

problems.

The recovery from PSSD took longer, but it is strongly correlated with

1) Being anxiety and depression free.

2) Mastering my social surroundings.

When I got depressed and I wasn't taking care of myself, my PSSD came back with

a

vengence. Now that I'm stress and anxiety free again, I'm recovering again.

I am less sure about the second factor because my level of social immersion

hasn't had

much variability, so it's harder to hypothesize about causality. However, the

initial recovery

sharply recovery correlates with two things.

1) Meeting my (then) awesome ex-girlfriend.

2) Mastering my social surroundings. (I quickly became the hub of a large group

of friends

after I moved to my current city)

I acquiesce that meeting my exgirlfriend may be the only factor of importance

here. The

second factor supported my earlier theory, and I am still very open to the

possibility that it

may play a role. One interesting thing I've noticed is how much more sexual I am

when

with my group (of which I'm probably the most confident and charismatic). Twice

now at

our parties I've felt so much like a normal male, that I couldn't help but

seduce someone

(once before I started dating my girlfriend and once after we broke up. I don't

cheat.). I felt

similarly normal last weekend, but struck out that time (DAMN!). Being similarly

drunk

alone with a girl at the bar or at my apartment didn't turn me on all that much

even when I

was more-or-less of recovered***, until we started taking each others clothes

off (then

things were good). Or maybe I just have an exhibitionist streak in me, and it

has nothing

to do with feeling in control socially. Who knows.

***Except for a short period right before I broke up with my girlfriend I was

always horny

and having sexual fantasies, as intense as during the pre-paxil days.

> > >

> > > I have an update for those who are interested. The

> > PSSD is a

> > problem for me again. My

> > > girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was

> > mutual). I operate

> > my own graphics business/

> > > freelance thing, and have been working some crazy

> > hours, and not

> > taking care of myself the

> > > way I should. Because I work at home I have had

> > very little social

> > interaction lately. Basically

> > > I've been doing the opposite of everything I was

> > doing that I

> > believe was helping me recover.

> > >

> > > Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I realize

> > just how much

> > progress I had made. I visited

> > > a 'friend' in Chicago and we messed around and it

> > was just like the

> > bad old days. I had very

> > > little sensitivity and couldn't get it up much at

> > all, which hadn't

> > been a problem for months. It

> > > really sucked because I wasn't any damn good

> > either. It's funny how

> > much of sex is

> > > instinctual. When my instincts are cooperating I

> > feel like a sex

> > god; when they're not I kinda

> > > suck...

> > >

> > > I have a couple big projects to finish up, and

> > then I think I can

> > resume my previously lucrative

> > > social life once again. Once that happens I'm

> > confident I will be

> > fine again, but for now I've

> > > sort of hit a low point. On the plus side I've

> > been exploding with

> > some intellectually grand

> > > ideas, something that's always been more important

> > to me than

> > anything else including sex.

> > >

> > > If nothing else, this is a useful experiment. When

> > I get better

> > again I can narrow down just

> > > what it is that made me recover so dramatically

> > last time.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

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>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

The excitement of meeting a new person and starting a

relationship does boost endorphins and dopamine--the

usual lack of dopamine or dopamine receptors in us

contributes to our PSSD...too bad the new exciting

relationship bathes the brain with these great

chemicals only temporarily, because my PSSD was gone

for awhile in the beginning of my current relationship

as well.

--- biologic1981 wrote:

> Well, I can't say I know anything for a fact, but

> here is my evidence.

>

> My anxiety and depression were definitely caused by

> those factors mentioned in my first

> post. Even now, if I go a couple days without

> accomplishment, or without getting enough

> sleep, or let myself get dehydrated, I will get

> depressed and anxious. It was all about

> learning about and correcting the little things in

> my environment that led to my problems.

>

> The recovery from PSSD took longer, but it is

> strongly correlated with

>

> 1) Being anxiety and depression free.

> 2) Mastering my social surroundings.

>

> When I got depressed and I wasn't taking care of

> myself, my PSSD came back with a

> vengence. Now that I'm stress and anxiety free

> again, I'm recovering again.

>

> I am less sure about the second factor because my

> level of social immersion hasn't had

> much variability, so it's harder to hypothesize

> about causality. However, the initial recovery

> sharply recovery correlates with two things.

>

> 1) Meeting my (then) awesome ex-girlfriend.

> 2) Mastering my social surroundings. (I quickly

> became the hub of a large group of friends

> after I moved to my current city)

>

> I acquiesce that meeting my exgirlfriend may be the

> only factor of importance here. The

> second factor supported my earlier theory, and I am

> still very open to the possibility that it

> may play a role. One interesting thing I've noticed

> is how much more sexual I am when

> with my group (of which I'm probably the most

> confident and charismatic). Twice now at

> our parties I've felt so much like a normal male,

> that I couldn't help but seduce someone

> (once before I started dating my girlfriend and once

> after we broke up. I don't cheat.). I felt

> similarly normal last weekend, but struck out that

> time (DAMN!). Being similarly drunk

> alone with a girl at the bar or at my apartment

> didn't turn me on all that much even when I

> was more-or-less of recovered***, until we started

> taking each others clothes off (then

> things were good). Or maybe I just have an

> exhibitionist streak in me, and it has nothing

> to do with feeling in control socially. Who knows.

>

> ***Except for a short period right before I broke up

> with my girlfriend I was always horny

> and having sexual fantasies, as intense as during

> the pre-paxil days.

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > I have an update for those who are interested.

> The

> > > PSSD is a

> > > problem for me again. My

> > > > girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was

> > > mutual). I operate

> > > my own graphics business/

> > > > freelance thing, and have been working some

> crazy

> > > hours, and not

> > > taking care of myself the

> > > > way I should. Because I work at home I have

> had

> > > very little social

> > > interaction lately. Basically

> > > > I've been doing the opposite of everything I

> was

> > > doing that I

> > > believe was helping me recover.

> > > >

> > > > Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I

> realize

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

this is very true When i met my fiance i thought i was healing from pssd. Now it has returned. The orgasms werent really back to normal but the erections and libido were. Now there is a decline. i still think it is linked to measuring that person up to women in our fantasies we obtained from pornography as a child or adult.lisa hallford wrote: The excitement of meeting a new person and starting arelationship does boost endorphins and dopamine--theusual lack of dopamine or dopamine receptors in

uscontributes to our PSSD...too bad the new excitingrelationship bathes the brain with these greatchemicals only temporarily, because my PSSD was gonefor awhile in the beginning of my current relationshipas well. --- biologic1981 <biologic1981> wrote:> Well, I can't say I know anything for a fact, but> here is my evidence. > > My anxiety and depression were definitely caused by> those factors mentioned in my first > post. Even now, if I go a couple days without> accomplishment, or without getting enough > sleep, or let myself get dehydrated, I will get> depressed and anxious. It was all about > learning about and correcting the little things in> my environment that led to my problems.> > The recovery from PSSD took longer, but it is> strongly correlated with> > 1)

Being anxiety and depression free.> 2) Mastering my social surroundings.> > When I got depressed and I wasn't taking care of> myself, my PSSD came back with a > vengence. Now that I'm stress and anxiety free> again, I'm recovering again.> > I am less sure about the second factor because my> level of social immersion hasn't had > much variability, so it's harder to hypothesize> about causality. However, the initial recovery > sharply recovery correlates with two things. > > 1) Meeting my (then) awesome ex-girlfriend.> 2) Mastering my social surroundings. (I quickly> became the hub of a large group of friends > after I moved to my current city)> > I acquiesce that meeting my exgirlfriend may be the> only factor of importance here. The > second factor supported my earlier theory, and I am> still very open to the possibility

that it > may play a role. One interesting thing I've noticed> is how much more sexual I am when > with my group (of which I'm probably the most> confident and charismatic). Twice now at > our parties I've felt so much like a normal male,> that I couldn't help but seduce someone > (once before I started dating my girlfriend and once> after we broke up. I don't cheat.). I felt > similarly normal last weekend, but struck out that> time (DAMN!). Being similarly drunk > alone with a girl at the bar or at my apartment> didn't turn me on all that much even when I > was more-or-less of recovered***, until we started> taking each others clothes off (then > things were good). Or maybe I just have an> exhibitionist streak in me, and it has nothing > to do with feeling in control socially. Who knows.> > ***Except for a short period right

before I broke up> with my girlfriend I was always horny > and having sexual fantasies, as intense as during> the pre-paxil days.> > > > > > >> > > > I have an update for those who are interested.> The> > > PSSD is a > > > problem for me again. My > > > > girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was> > > mutual). I operate > > > my own graphics business/> > > > freelance thing, and have been working some> crazy> > > hours, and not > > > taking care of myself the > > > > way I should. Because I work at home I have> had> > > very little social > > > interaction lately. Basically > > > > I've been doing the opposite of everything I> was> > > doing that I > > > believe was helping me recover.>

> > > > > > > Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I> realize> === message truncated ===__________________________________________________________Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecastwith the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

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[Guest guest]

Ok I agree with the part about being anxiety and depression free. Those

are a must to keep your mind calm and your emotions balanced. But using

other people or things outside of yourself to cure yourself, it sounds

like you are setting yourself up for failure, because you have no

control over them. You are placing yourself in their hands. I can see

this idea helping out with confidence or boosting morale, but not curing

anything.

Shay

biologic1981 wrote:

>

> Well, I can't say I know anything for a fact, but here is my evidence.

>

> My anxiety and depression were definitely caused by those factors

> mentioned in my first

> post. Even now, if I go a couple days without accomplishment, or

> without getting enough

> sleep, or let myself get dehydrated, I will get depressed and anxious.

> It was all about

> learning about and correcting the little things in my environment that

> led to my problems.

>

> The recovery from PSSD took longer, but it is strongly correlated with

>

> 1) Being anxiety and depression free.

> 2) Mastering my social surroundings.

>

> When I got depressed and I wasn't taking care of myself, my PSSD came

> back with a

> vengence. Now that I'm stress and anxiety free again, I'm recovering

> again.

>

> I am less sure about the second factor because my level of social

> immersion hasn't had

> much variability, so it's harder to hypothesize about causality.

> However, the initial recovery

> sharply recovery correlates with two things.

>

> 1) Meeting my (then) awesome ex-girlfriend.

> 2) Mastering my social surroundings. (I quickly became the hub of a

> large group of friends

> after I moved to my current city)

>

> I acquiesce that meeting my exgirlfriend may be the only factor of

> importance here. The

> second factor supported my earlier theory, and I am still very open to

> the possibility that it

> may play a role. One interesting thing I've noticed is how much more

> sexual I am when

> with my group (of which I'm probably the most confident and

> charismatic). Twice now at

> our parties I've felt so much like a normal male, that I couldn't help

> but seduce someone

> (once before I started dating my girlfriend and once after we broke

> up. I don't cheat.). I felt

> similarly normal last weekend, but struck out that time (DAMN!). Being

> similarly drunk

> alone with a girl at the bar or at my apartment didn't turn me on all

> that much even when I

> was more-or-less of recovered***, until we started taking each others

> clothes off (then

> things were good). Or maybe I just have an exhibitionist streak in me,

> and it has nothing

> to do with feeling in control socially. Who knows.

>

> ***Except for a short period right before I broke up with my

> girlfriend I was always horny

> and having sexual fantasies, as intense as during the pre-paxil days.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > I have an update for those who are interested. The

> > > PSSD is a

> > > problem for me again. My

> > > > girlfriend and I broke it off recently (it was

> > > mutual). I operate

> > > my own graphics business/

> > > > freelance thing, and have been working some crazy

> > > hours, and not

> > > taking care of myself the

> > > > way I should. Because I work at home I have had

> > > very little social

> > > interaction lately. Basically

> > > > I've been doing the opposite of everything I was

> > > doing that I

> > > believe was helping me recover.

> > > >

> > > > Now that the PSSD is a problem again, I realize

> > > just how much

> > > progress I had made. I visited

> > > > a 'friend' in Chicago and we messed around and it

> > > was just like the

> > > bad old days. I had very

> > > > little sensitivity and couldn't get it up much at

> > > all, which hadn't

> > > been a problem for months. It

> > > > really sucked because I wasn't any damn good

> > > either. It's funny how

> > > much of sex is

> > > > instinctual. When my instincts are cooperating I

> > > feel like a sex

> > > god; when they're not I kinda

> > > > suck...

> > > >

> > > > I have a couple big projects to finish up, and

> > > then I think I can

> > > resume my previously lucrative

> > > > social life once again. Once that happens I'm

> > > confident I will be

> > > fine again, but for now I've

> > > > sort of hit a low point. On the plus side I've

> > > been exploding with

> > > some intellectually grand

> > > > ideas, something that's always been more important

> > > to me than

> > > anything else including sex.

> > > >

> > > > If nothing else, this is a useful experiment. When

> > > I get better

> > > again I can narrow down just

> > > > what it is that made me recover so dramatically

> > > last time.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

> > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

> > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html

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> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

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> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

My roommate left out a National Geographic from February 2006 with the

cover story of love. I read it and found some interesting connections

with your stories. It says that dopamine levels are raised in people who

are in love, but after a couple years the passion dies down and is

replaced with oxy-something, a chemical that causes people to stay

bonded together. Could be a clue as to why you recovered with your

girlfriend there for a while.

Shay

biologic1981 wrote:

>

> I hooked up with my exgirlfriend last night. I can definitely say that

> I have still not reached

> the high point of my previous recovery, but I'm getting there. I can

> perform great, but it's

> not as pleasurable as it has been. Still great though. Things have

> settle down with work

> and I've been taking care of myself and having fun. It shows.

>

>

> >

> > I posted most of this in a different thread, but I've expanded the

> idea a bit.

> >

> > THE CAUSE:

> >

> > 1) Whether we know it or not, we're all jostling for social

> dominance. Our desire to " keep

> > up with the 's " , aquire job promotions and date the prettiest

> girls are behavioral

> > relics of our caveman instincts to aquire dominance. In our caveman

> ancestors an

> increase

> > in social dominance led to an increase in social power and mating

> opportunities. This

> > increased biological fitness led to a perpetuation of these

> dominance persuing traits.

> >

> > 2) This dominance persuing behavior isn't unique to humans. Most

> social animals have a

> > similar structure. Personally I believe that our dominance system is

> more complex, in

> that

> > it is divided into domains. An individual may have an accepted level

> of dominance within

> a

> > particular group for a particular domain, but a different position

> in another domain in

> the

> > same group. So a person might have a high dominance level on the

> baseball field or the

> > kitchen, but less in the bar or at work.

> >

> > 3) The presence of a high level of serotonin in a specific part of

> our brains (I

> > forget which) has been shown by some experiments to mediate

> dominance pursuing

> > behavior in primates. If dominance is achieved, the serotonin levels

> remain elevated. If

> the

> > individual fails to achieve dominance, the levels will lower until

> another promising

> > opportunity arises.

> >

> > 4) In some primates, once a domint individual loses dominance, the

> individuals tend to

> > never again resume dominance seeking behavior, and seem to

> experience major

> > personality and affect changes. This may be an adaptive response

> caused by a change in

> > gene expression. The dethroned individual's best bet for survival is

> to lay low, and avoid

> > angering the individual or coalition that dethroned him. These gene

> expression changes

> > may induce dramatic changes to their sexual behavior, preventing

> them from being

> > attacked or killed. In hamsters, at least, these changes can even

> lead to a reduction in

> > testicle size.

> >

> > We took drugs that greatly increased the levels of serotonin in our

> brains for a

> prolonged

> > period of time. The exposure to serotonin at such high levels and

> for so long, may have

> > convinced at least part of our brains that we had become a dominant

> individual of our

> > group. Perhaps, upon discontinuation, this part of our brains

> behaved as if we were

> > usurped from a dominant position, to that of a submissive

> individual, and changed the

> > expression of our genes to reflect that. Maybe it made us like the

> dethroned chimp or

> > hamster, and we act as such (particularly in regard to our sexual

> pursuits).

> >

> > STRATEGIES FOR PSSD REVERSAL:

> >

> > If my theory is correct, the logical solution is to naturally raise

> our levels of social

> > dominance. With luck, this should undo the gene expression changes.

> This process may

> > be temporarily mimicked by the use of drugs, but I suspect that a

> natural approach will

> be

> > safer and more sustainable.

> >

> > Since human dominance appears to be split into domains, it seems

> reasonable to start

> by

> > trying to improve on just one or a few domains. No one can be great

> at everything.

> Some

> > suggestions for dominance raising activities include:

> >

> > 1) Volunteering

> > 2) Joining an academic or sporting group or team

> > 3) Becoming an expert in an area of academic interest.

> > 4) Weight-lifting, running

> > 5) Dressing well; smelling good

> >

> > The more socially oriented an activity, the most likely it is to be

> successful. The results

> > won't come directly from gaining skills in an area, but from the

> brain's sensing of the

> > recognition of others that you are good at what you do.

> >

> > Others won't be likely to grant an increases in position if you are

> depressed or anxious. I

> > know it's easier said than done, but it's important to rid as much

> depression and anxiety

> > from your life as possible. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is probably

> the way to go here,

> > although I had great success in changing my patterns of maladaptive

> thinking and

> > behaviors without the help of a therapist. I'm sure there must be CB

> self-help books out

> > there. I took a lot of psych classes in college, so I just used a

> mix of common sense and

> > the stuff I learned in class. In short:

> >

> > 1) Get enough sleep

> > 2) Eat right

> > 3) Identify self-defeating attitudes and thought patterns and change

> them

> > 4) Dress well. This will raise your self esteem

> > 5) Accomplish as much as you can. Succeed as much as possible every day.

> > 6) Have plans for the future that are both ambitious and attainable.

> They should

> > complement your existing talents and skill sets.

> >

> > These things were the key for me to overcome my severe anxiety and

> depression. They

> > probably won't work for everbody, but my guess is that they are a

> good start. Do what

> > works for you.

> >

> > I am more or less recovered now. I believe these are the changes

> that I made to reach

> this

> > point. I really hope this helps some people.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, its been many months and the guy hasn't returned, so maybe he is

cured.

I know for a FACT that I didn't experience the bulk of pssd till I

lost my first verbal battle off of meds. This one incident has caused

me lots of grief.

I was also wondering if the dominance roles in rats had changed. If

there is a connection there, than there might be a connection here.

[Guest guest]

Very interesting. It has been shown scientifically that a single social defeat can induce long-term gene expression changes in rats:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSearch=16360122 & ordinalpos=8 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

There are many more studies besides this one.

I wouldn't have thought that such a thing could cause sexual dysfunction, but your brain could have been in a "primed" state from the withdrawal from the SSRIs and the social defeat pushed you over the edge.

The good news is that these changes should be reversible if you can find the right social or neurochamical stimuli. That might have been how biologic recovered.

Vornan>> Well, its been many months and the guy hasn't returned, so maybe he is> cured.> > I know for a FACT that I didn't experience the bulk of pssd till I> lost my first verbal battle off of meds. This one incident has caused> me lots of grief.> > I was also wondering if the dominance roles in rats had changed. If> there is a connection there, than there might be a connection here.>

[Guest guest]

I have always thought that severe stress can cause those changes.---

In SSRIsex , " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

wrote:

>

>

> Very interesting. It has been shown scientifically that a single

social

> defeat can induce long-term gene expression changes in rats:

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?

Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & Te\

>

rmToSearch=16360122 & ordinalpos=8 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pu

bm\

> ed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?

Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & T\

>

ermToSearch=16360122 & ordinalpos=8 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.P

ub\

> med_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>

>

> There are many more studies besides this one.

>

> I wouldn't have thought that such a thing could cause sexual

> dysfunction, but your brain could have been in a " primed " state

from the

> withdrawal from the SSRIs and the social defeat pushed you over the

> edge.

>

> The good news is that these changes should be reversible if you can

find

> the right social or neurochamical stimuli. That might have been how

> biologic recovered.

>

> Vornan

>

> >

> > Well, its been many months and the guy hasn't returned, so maybe

he is

> > cured.

> >

> > I know for a FACT that I didn't experience the bulk of pssd till I

> > lost my first verbal battle off of meds. This one incident has

caused

> > me lots of grief.

> >

> > I was also wondering if the dominance roles in rats had changed.

If

> > there is a connection there, than there might be a connection

here.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is a huge discovery.

I could get crazy with this shit and talk about a social defeat

affecting your development during puberty, etc, but hopefully that

didn't happen.

What do you suggest?

I'm gonna research specific ways to reverse

[Guest guest]

Maybe a contributing factor but if social defeat caused it i would've had no libido at all from 13-16. On 9/30/07, <

@...> wrote:

This is a huge discovery.

I could get crazy with this shit and talk about a social defeat

affecting your development during puberty, etc, but hopefully that

didn't happen.

What do you suggest?

I'm gonna research specific ways to reverse

[Guest guest]

I don't think social change or status has anything to do with PSSD.

I was on the bottom of the social ladder and had a super high labido

prior to taking Prozac. In fact, one of the things that Prozac did

was raise me high on the social ladder in school because I lost my

inhibitions and talked to anyone and everyone. However, it destroyed

my labido completely. Even today I have far more friends and

acquaintances when compared to my pre psych med days.

> >

> > This is a huge discovery.

> >

> > I could get crazy with this shit and talk about a social defeat

> > affecting your development during puberty, etc, but hopefully that

> > didn't happen.

> >

> > What do you suggest?

> >

> > I'm gonna research specific ways to reverse

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I couldn't help but laugh when I read that. I think everyone's been

through that phase at some point in their life, especially while a teenager.

I've thought a lot about things I could have done that might have

contributed to my condition, and while some may have contributed, none

stand out as much as the antidepressants. I mean, the effects were

noticeable the day after I started, so....

Shay

mike Lynch wrote:

>

> Maybe a contributing factor but if social defeat caused it i would've

> had no libido at all from 13-16.

>

> On 9/30/07, ** < @...

> > wrote:

>

> This is a huge discovery.

>

> I could get crazy with this shit and talk about a social defeat

> affecting your development during puberty, etc, but hopefully that

> didn't happen.

>

> What do you suggest?

>

> I'm gonna research specific ways to reverse

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Now that I look back, I was numb the day I quit. I think I'm just ruined.

[Guest guest]

I dont believe that my social situation has anything to do with my

PSSD.For example ,I was originally prescribed the SSRI because of mild

anxiety I had when giving oral presentations as a teenage student.

I have since overcome that in quite a marked and dramatic way but

this , along with the various social `battles` of the last 11 years

have had zero affect on my PSSD whether `won` or `lost`.

Also,nothing traumatic ,humiliating or difficult to deal with happenend

whilst on or after taking the SSRI, even if any social defeat were able

to contribute to any lasting side effects, which I dont really believe

in.

I think that the cases where people have PSSD from SSRI treatment for

conditions other than mental illness and werent on them for very long

leave less room for social theories.

[Guest guest]

100% 'correct' observation!

> > >

> > > This is a huge discovery.

> > >

> > > I could get crazy with this shit and talk about a social defeat

> > > affecting your development during puberty, etc, but hopefully

that

> > > didn't happen.

> > >

> > > What do you suggest?

> > >

> > > I'm gonna research specific ways to reverse

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>