New to the group

[Guest guest]

We've done that as well. This is the first time anyone has made demands on this

child in his whole life. I can guarantee that his parents never make demands on

him. They say he doesn't behave this way at home. One says he does one thing and

the other says the opposite. I know from personal experience that children can

be 2 totally different kids in different settings. My son is high functioning

asperger syndrome with a rage disorder. The school had never seen the rages and

never had a problem. As soon as he came home, like a bomb, he exploded. His

psychiatrist said he feels safe and that is why he doesn't do it at school.

Well, one day the school got the full explosion. They called me to the school

and said what is going on with him. I said, now do you believe me? Needless to

say, his school started listening to what I was saying. By the way, he

graduates High School this month. I told them all that he would make it.I'm so

happy!!!!!!!!

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[Guest guest]

<<Also the child has to be trained what the pictures represent.>>

Exactly, we always run receptive ID trials with jamie using whatever pix are

going to be in the schedule to make sure she knows what they are before

incorporating them into a schedule or a communication device. Otherwise it's

just another " foreign " language.

Congratulations TM on your son's progress- you are certainly not new at any of

this! It is great that you are so dedicated to helping this child.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

This child gets constant positive praise for every little accomplishment. There

have been many times when I have said, 2 or 3 minutes of good work was getting

him his reward. He is given many sensory choices throughout the day. He gets his

pictures and chooses what he is working for, puts in on the strip with pictures

that show he is working for ? Then is shown the time to work picture, timer is

set, we work. If he is working well, or even if I sense that he isn't feeling up

to himself, I will cut his work time short. Working every minute is not

important to me. Pick your battles is. Some of it I believe can be let go and

isn't worth the fight. However, I like to at least get him to do a task. His

reward happens immediately upon completion of the given task. I set that with

the previous teacher. I said , you can not wait to reward or to discipline. He

can't do something today and get in trouble for it tomorrow.I have some upset

with me because he will hit and hit and I

ignore it because he will realize it isn't bothering me and will stop and do

the work. It does bother me but the more reaction he gets, the more he will do

the undesired acts. This school year is almost over. I intend to study

everything that is sent.Thanks again!!!!!!!

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[Guest guest]

Here is something funny. He comes in from the bus, opens his schedule and takes

everything off but Math and lunch. We always ask him if he is hungry when he

comes in and he will say no. Once in a while he shakes his head yes so we give

him something to eat. He points to math and work because lunch is right after

that and he loves lunchtime. He also knows how to clear the timer and will show

us that his time is done and smile really big. This is one smart child. The

parents have sent in some favorite toys of his for us to use.

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[Guest guest]

TM it sounds as if you're really doing everything you possibly can and more! I

know with jamie we had to work thru many many biomedical and physiological

problems before we could even get to the ABA stuff. It sounds as if he may need

a complete and thorough medical exam, and any untoward findings followed thru by

the parents. As you describe it it doesn't seem likely in this case. This must

be so very frustrating for someone who cares as much as you do and who is doing

all the right things. Unfortunately you have no control over what goes on at

home.God bless you for all the effort you are putting in on behalf of this

child.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

<< He points to math and work because lunch is right after that and he loves

lunchtime. He also knows how to clear the timer and will show us that his time

is done and smile really big>>

jamie used to do this when we set up a picture schedule of every therapist who

was coming each day. She'd sneak over and take off all the ones she didn't like

and leave her PCA (the one who makes her food and not work:) Then she hid them

behind the bureau. How old is this kiddo again?

Sherry

[Guest guest]

TM-Our kids are REALLY smart-sometimes we wonder about them!!! =) I know

for myself, I sometimes take a step back, and say ok-maybe it's me!

Liz-Mom to Tori 6 yr.

Re: new to the group

Here is something funny. He comes in from the bus, opens his schedule and

takes everything off but Math and lunch. We always ask him if he is hungry

when he comes in and he will say no. Once in a while he shakes his head yes

so we give him something to eat. He points to math and work because lunch is

right after that and he loves lunchtime. He also knows how to clear the

timer and will show us that his time is done and smile really big. This is

one smart child. The parents have sent in some favorite toys of his for us

to use.

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[Guest guest]

This child is 9.(and soooooo adorable)

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[Guest guest]

Re: new to the group

<< He points to math and work because lunch is right after that and he loves

lunchtime. He also knows how to clear the timer and will show us that his time

is done and smile really big>>

TM,

Just noticed this (lunch after math). Did not get my facts straight, sorry. He

does sound pretty smart, such a challenge investigating the function of the

behavior going on.

Irma

[Guest guest]

There is a difference between positive reininforcement and

rewarding. Do you tell him no and count say 1,2,3, and give him a

choice of a reward he can work for? When he starts this behavior

stop what he likes tell him no, start counting again, and then start

the reward again. Maybe its a musical toy,etc.My son did not respond

until the second day. I hope this helps. Cyndi

>

> Yes, we use picture schedules, visual and digital timer and

positive reinforcement. We use PECS. Everything he does has a

picture and he has a time to work picture and time to play.When he

is finished with the task he removes it and puts it in an envelope.

We do everything that we have been told to do by the OT, PT, and

everyone else involved. The hitting sometimes starts even before the

task has been started. The work he is presented with isn't too hard

for him. He likes to do the same work over and over. For example,

reading the same stories everytime he has the subject. We have new

stories and activities for him and before we even begin to read them

he will battle.When I have him I will get out something old and

something new. I will even let him choose what he wants to do. The

more I think about this I have more ideas as to what could be the

cause. I am now up to hundreds of ideas. I've thought, is it

something I have on, I don't wear perfume, could it be what he has

> on, or any number of different sensory issues. I've taken

detailed notes throughout the days. I'm frustrated, not at the

child, but at not knowing. This child can sign done, hungry, sick,

and other necessary signs.He can say no loud and clear. In the

morning I ask if he is hungry. He says no every time. If I ask

something that he does need he will shake his head yes. I'm reading

every post that comes through and every link. Someone has to figure

this child out and I won't give up.

>

> Thanks

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/6/2006 10:18:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

indyred2005@... writes:

Giving him more and more praise for doing good work, good walking,good

listening and so on will eventually get the point across that he does not need

to

do the negative behaviors for attention. ( I hope)

Have you tried a sensory diet? If you have tried everything that has been

suggested then it might be time to stop re-evaluate what has and hasn't

worked and then check into some other areas. Even when children seek attention

they are still trying to communicate. While we may think the work isn't too

hard, it could indeed be too hard but not in the way that we may typically

think. When someone is seeking attention there is always a reason behind the

behavior. Can you give examples of some of his daily tasks for the week and

what reinforcers you are using as well as what kind of rewards, I'm sure you

have already done this but as I seem to have missed some emails in-between it

would help to refresh my memory. :-)

The way the light hits the paper could be causing a problem, the angle of

his desk, the buzzing of over-head lights could be distracting there are so

many things that we ourselves tune out that maybe he isn't able to do. Do you

brush him regularly? Joint compression? Vibrating toys, pens etc.? Trisha

gets brushed every hour she has a ton of sensory items at school they

incorporate into her whole day.

My child uses what they call white noise to drown out sounds that are

unpleasant to her (unfortunately her white noise is driving me crazy!) lol

So many different things could be going on and one thing I know for sure,

even though our kids have many things in common, they also have many things

that are different and each child responds differently and it's a big mystery

trying to figure where each puzzle piece goes. :-)

Carol

Trishasmom

She isn't Typical, She's Trisha!

[Guest guest]

When he does a negative behavior, we show him the timer, tell him his time is

off, when he begins working we start the timer again. There isn't any constantly

saying NO! Stop! For example when he is working and he reaches out and hits or

scratches, I will say calmly, no hitting, stop the timer ask him if he wants

whatever it is, and he will work again. Basically, the more someone responds to

the behavior the worse it gets. I don't respond the way he expects. It might

happen a few more times but if he doesn't get a response he stops. He will even

hit my hand or arm, look right at me while he does this and when I don't respond

will look right at me and do it again. It's as if he is saying, hey aren't you

going to do anything about this.Then he stops. The behaviors don't happen when

he has his reward. It is getting better. For now, no work means no reward. We

had a teacher who would really get on to him and the more she did the worse he

was.

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[Guest guest]

We found the same with Tori. She was acting out to get attention, so if we

ignore the behavior she gets more intense..and when she realized it is not

working, she eventually stops. We do this when she acts out in school when

she hits or kicks someone. We turn our attention to the person she

hit/kicked and not to her.

Liz

Re: Re: new to the group

> When he does a negative behavior, we show him the timer, tell him his time

> is off, when he begins working we start the timer again. There isn't any

> constantly saying NO! Stop! For example when he is working and he reaches

> out and hits or scratches, I will say calmly, no hitting, stop the timer

> ask him if he wants whatever it is, and he will work again. Basically, the

> more someone responds to the behavior the worse it gets. I don't respond

> the way he expects. It might happen a few more times but if he doesn't get

> a response he stops. He will even hit my hand or arm, look right at me

> while he does this and when I don't respond will look right at me and do

> it again. It's as if he is saying, hey aren't you going to do anything

> about this.Then he stops. The behaviors don't happen when he has his

> reward. It is getting better. For now, no work means no reward. We had a

> teacher who would really get on to him and the more she did the worse he

> was.

>

> ---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I haven’t been following all the exchanges but this caught my eye this

morning. If it is a repeat sorry about that. I wondered if you use any

visuals for him to not hit? Hodgdon’s site HYPERLINK

" http://www.usevisualstrategies.com/pictures.html " http://www.usevisualst

rategies.com/pictures.html has some pictures using the red circle with

the line through it as an example. Maybe you could make a picture for

the no hitting or scratching with the red circle/line through it. Check

out the site and see if it is something you would want to use. Louise

Re: Re: new to the group

When he does a negative behavior, we show him the timer, tell him his

time is off, when he begins working we start the timer again. There

isn't any constantly saying NO! Stop! For example when he is working and

he reaches out and hits or scratches, I will say calmly, no hitting,

stop the timer ask him if he wants whatever it is, and he will work

again. Basically, the more someone responds to the behavior the worse it

gets. I don't respond the way he expects. It might happen a few more

times but if he doesn't get a response he stops. He will even hit my

hand or arm, look right at me while he does this and when I don't

respond will look right at me and do it again. It's as if he is saying,

hey aren't you going to do anything about this.Then he stops. The

behaviors don't happen when he has his reward. It is getting better. For

now, no work means no reward. We had a teacher who would really get on

to him and the more she did the worse he was.

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[Guest guest]

Yes, we use visuals for everything. Visuals for no hitting, scratching... don't

work. He is doing it for attention. I focus on the good behaviors and ignore the

negative. Giving him more and more praise for doing good work, good walking,good

listening and so on will eventually get the point across that he does not need

to do the negative behaviors for attention. ( I hope)

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[Guest guest]

Sounds ilek a good plan. What do you do when he does the negative

ones? Ignoring sounds like it might work since attention is his

game.

Have you tried a social story telling himw hat you'd like him to do

(rather than keying into what not to do)? I always find this helpful

with Andy to have stories that share how he can be successful.

Hang in there - this is a tiring and tough road you're on but it

sounds like you're doing good work!

Joan

>

> Yes, we use visuals for everything. Visuals for no hitting,

scratching... don't work. He is doing it for attention. I focus on

the good behaviors and ignore the negative. Giving him more and more

praise for doing good work, good walking,good listening and so on

will eventually get the point across that he does not need to do the

negative behaviors for attention. ( I hope)

>

> ---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I know that many different things could be causing the behavior.Lights,

temerature,smells, noise, certain clothing material, shoes and a number of other

things that don't bother us could cause the problem. I am keeping a log of

details from each day starting with what he has on when he comes to school to

what happened before the behavior and continuing this all day long every day. I

even write if someone different came into the room,why they came in, did they

have perfume on.

Since I am just the TA I am stuck as far as what I can and can not do. It

is up to the teacher and the other experts to decide what gets put in place and

when. Meanwhile, I am trying to figure him out on my own from my perspective as

a parent with a child on the spectrum.

Yes he has a sensory diet in place. Sensory goes all day long every day.

He gets brushed several times a day. He has several different sensory toys,

weighted blanket and vest, beanbag chair and many other items. His rewards are

musical toys. He loves them. He has other choices as well but prefers music.

I am doing what I can without stepping on anyone's toes. There is only so

much I can do. When I work with him, I tell him what he is to do and have him

pick a reward to work for. Everytime he gets something done whether right or

wrong I say good job, praise him, and he likes high 5's. I wanted to give him

some kind of small treat each time he got something done but I had heard my

superiors talking about that earlier this year and they were saying that was not

something they would do. So I didn't bother even mentioning to try it.

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

First of all, you not " just " his TA. YOu are his TA.

In the real world scheme of things you are his primary

support person during the times you are working with

him. What you do makes a huge difference in his day.

NEVER EVER think your role is the smallest. The truth

is, the impact of your work is the greatest b/c you

are there more than the others.

You are his most valuable ally.

True, however, that you have the least political

clout. Communicate as openly as you can.

As for treats for good work, is it that they won't

give hima reward of any kind or just not a food

reward? If food is the issue, ask them to ask Mom what

sorts of things he really really likes so you can come

up wtih a reward that is interesting to him that isn't

food. Andy works for his favorite items (new jump

ropes or measuring tapes) and new videos and time on

the swing.

REmember, you are a pivotal piece of that student's

Day! He will feed off your mood. ... All you can do is

your best.

Take care,

Joan

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

He has his favorite things that are being used as rewards. Mom sent them in at

the beginning of the year. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy this child tremendously

even on the bad days.When I do get the opportunity to work with him whether it

is during integration or in the room, I do believe I am helping him with his

difficulties. There are other children in the classroom but I somehow became

this childs favorite right away. It's almost time for Summer vacation and this

is the child I will miss terribly. All of the children are missed by me and I

can hardly wait for vacation to get over but there is always one child that

stands out.

What I was saying about being the TA is that teacher assistants don't have

clout period here. I do tell the teacher what I think, what I experienced or

what I feel might work in dealing with problems. She listens to me and is a good

teacher. We have to go through a process with everything though so I take my job

seriously and do my best given the information I have and the information I

receive from first hand experiences shared by parents and teachers.( you all)

Well, back to addressing envelopes for my sons graduation. Everyone who

told me he would never complete high school is getting one.

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