Re: panic disorder/depression

[Guest guest]

oh my goodness, deanna! how terribly invalidating! i can't even

imagine how you processed that as a twelve year old. and what a witch

for mocking you in regards to a trauma you endured. i guess that was

her way of acknowledging it. awful.

it's funny that that's not your worst memory.

i hope your healing,

christine.

> > she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> > attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> > (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> > reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> > work? " )

>

>

> That is such a terrible memory. It reminded me of this:

>

> As some of you may remember my story, I was chased through the desert

> by a pedophile when I was 12. He didn't catch me, but I told my

> mother after I ran home, and she just told me to set the table. She

> was not at all concerned.

>

> Years later we were watching Oprah or something similar and someone

> was talking about being molested, and she turned to me and said, in a

> very dramatic and almost mocking way, " That never happened to YOU, did

> it? " It's difficult to explain how that moment made me feel both

> violated and mocked.

>

> It was not my worst memory, just one of those " whuuuuuhhhh???? " moments.

>

> -Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

ha ! you said " it's funny that that's not your worst memory. "

yeah, it is funny. I'm in a funny, strange, why is she so messed up I

can't wrap my head around it mood tonight!

I was expecting we would call the police, and as I got closer to the

house, I was going over what he was wearing in my head. When she

seemed unaffected, I was initially just confused. And at points I

thought, " Maybe that didn't really happen? " I'm sure many of you know

what I mean.

I think it was years before that actually made me mad. I don't know

if her question was her way of acknowledging that or not. I've always

thought if I brought it up to her, she would not even remember it.

But the really cool thing was I read some other woman's post in the

archives from a couple years back who had the same story as me. It

was AMAZING. Only she got chased through the woods by TWO men. Said

her nada barely looked up from the TV when she came in and told her

what happened.

I've told this story to several people over the years, and the only

thing anyone could come up with is " she must have thought you were

spinning a tale. " I NEVER told tales, so who knows?

Even my shrink can't " explain " it to me.

Thanks for the post.

-Deanna

> > > she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> > > attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my

response.

> > > (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> > > reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> > > work? " )

> >

> >

> > That is such a terrible memory. It reminded me of this:

> >

> > As some of you may remember my story, I was chased through the desert

> > by a pedophile when I was 12. He didn't catch me, but I told my

> > mother after I ran home, and she just told me to set the table. She

> > was not at all concerned.

> >

> > Years later we were watching Oprah or something similar and someone

> > was talking about being molested, and she turned to me and said, in a

> > very dramatic and almost mocking way, " That never happened to YOU, did

> > it? " It's difficult to explain how that moment made me feel both

> > violated and mocked.

> >

> > It was not my worst memory, just one of those " whuuuuuhhhh???? "

moments.

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh ,

I’m so sorry and I can say that I was raised completely opposite- but to the

extreme. I ran around like a dirty headed little orphan; I’ve caught fleas

climbing trees in nothing but a lg. t shirt and undies; pajamas on the citi

bus in Milw. WI.; (Milwaukee is not such a nice place; at least the south

side) and then when I turned 13 I was accused of having sex when I didn’t

even have it on my mind. That’s a bad one; but since she had her first

child at 15- of course I’m doing the same thing; right? But I was isolated

from my brothers and sister. And by the time I was 12, I already had 3 or 4

nieces and nephews. When they visited I used to get yelled at for “taking

away her grandchildren from her”. She threw a fit when I put makeup on my

nieces; and couldn’t understand why it wasn’t any fun for them to sit there

with grandma and her greasy oatmeal with no sugar! & She didn’t allow

cartoons on the TV.

As far as my own children, I’ve caught myself being overly paranoid; but

that’s mainly because there are THREE houses down the block with addresses

on the WI state pedophile list (public access)…And, I’m sure my working as a

correctional officer for 51/2 years has something to do with it also;

because I’ve worked with those rapers and molesters face to face. But, I

have gotten better; I allow for the boys to go to the park and around the

block #1: only if they tell one of us adults- me, dad, or Amie (20yrs); and

#2- only if both boys stick together- no ditching the other or wandering

elsewhere; and #3- they have to check in every 20 minutes; and cannot go

outside if I’m the only one home and in the shower. I’m afraid if something

happens I won’t be on standby; but in addition to being a correctional

officer, I buried my first son when he was only 7 mos. Old; never got to

take him home from the hospital; and the day I had to stay in the hospital

for the labor I didn’t know I had- I saw a freak accident occur with this

little boy who was hit by a motorcycle going about 40. I heard his dad tell

him to stay away from the street before the dad went into the same pharmacy

as I did. I didn’t hear a crash, or hear sirens, but when we got out the

little boy was pinned under a motorcycle with his bicycle torn up in the

middle of the street; and I remembered the father’s face and voice; my

husband at the time put his hand over my face and we walked to the car. 4

days after I had my son Curtis premature @ 26+ wks. He was in the pediatric

intensive care; and the room next to us was the same little boy; but he had

massive water on the brain; and around 14 days later I was there to see this

boy move for the first time and called the nurses; although I didn’t talk to

the father much; I prayed for the little boy; he was around 10. I don’t

know what happened to him; I want to say he got better. But I’ve seen what

can happen; and everyone thinks “it only happens to everyone else”; which is

why I get pissed when I hear of kids being killed; riding their three speed

mongoose bikes down hi way roads.

But what you went through was too extreme; and after I grew up awhile I

wondered whether my mother had a life insurance policy out on me; all the

times I could have gotten really hurt from some of the freaks that hung

around my ghetto neighborhood at the time. I had this homeless person put

his hand over my mouth and pull me by my neck to the back of my hallway

door; I don’t know how I got away from him. I only remember he stunk so bad

and his hands were dirty greasy; with a long red beard.

Maybe God hooked you up with your mother; and us with all our mothers; to

learn “what not to be as a parent”.

My mother isolated me from my bros and sis although they would come over and

visit; and when I got older my sis. Told me that they all made a pact to

“check up” on me; to see whether mother was taking care of me or not; she

had me when she was 43; for the same stupid reason that someone else

mentioned; was it Bernadette? “To have someone to really love me”…my sister

said she was pulling that stuff too when Marsha (my sis) started dating.

But, if it weren’t for my grandmother, my sis and my daughter I probably

wouldn’t be alive today.

Sorry for getting off track; but no she isolated me from my siblings out of

jealousy. Same with my sibling’s kids. And, she threw a fit during her

60th birthday when my nieces, nephews and I went for a walk during her party

to go smoke cigarettes; although two of us were 24 yrs. Old. We only wanted

to catch up on lost time without being monitored by the magpie.

Thanks for your responses ; I wish we all could meet each other.

Everyone’s so cool! I’m going through so much sh*t right now; the planets

must be banging heads or something. But you folks who I’ve never really met

show more care and concern than my own husband has shown me for the last

week- after his fricking BP fits he’s thrown for the last 2 weeks. It’s

either chaos or he seems serene yet wants nothing to do with me; but he’s

smart about it…he managed to get me in the sack twice this last weekend- so

he figures the hell with her; I don’t need sex for the next two months now;

I can look at her like she’s crap; throw some more fits and be nice to her

for 1 & 1/2 days tops before I’ll get her in the sack again; probably thinking

it beats rosie and the five sisters! I think I want to start checking the

online dating scene; just to see what it’s like. I’m ready to get the hell

out of here; take my kids and limit his custody. I’ve been unhappy 8yrs out

of 10 now. It took this long also to prove on paper that it hasn’t been me

that’s BPD- only co dependent; which I’ve already admitted. So does that

count?? Lol

Thank you so much ; take care! Big hugs to you and everyone!

Vickitoria…(as I believe Vi is actually a Vicky?...I hope she didn’t need to

use initials because of my name! ) I’ll just add my two : Vicki + toria!

How’s that?

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of christine

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:37 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

vicki - your finger comment was funny! well, i can quite honestly say

that indeed, my nada was afraid of everything and kept me in the house

or on the concrete patio of our apartment most of my childhood. i can

honestly say that i never had play dates, don't have any memories of

being taken to parks (expcept one time with my grandpa) and have

absolutely no memories of playtime with nada. my childood memories

were of me alone, playing alone because nada beat it in her own head

that i would be raped/kidnapped/murdered. essentially, i was kept in a

box. i've suffered a lot of social anxiety because of it. i am pretty

terrified in social settings but i'm learning to adjust. thank god for

everyone here, my husband and my therapist.

the legal/financial matters are the only ways nada knows to get a

response from me. every 5-6 months, i'll get some request from her to

send my personal info for some legal bullshit that never makes any

sense. anyway, i've wised up to her trying to pry back in, much thanks

to this board.

thank you vicki for letting me share...

here's to our healing!

love,

christine.

-- In WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com, " " wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> I think I messed up the last note and sent it to Bernadette. Sorry

about

> that! What do you mean by " legal and financial matters " ? and also

did she

> try to use the " rape, kill, kidnap " stuff to scare you; or to make

you come

> in before dark; or what?? Because I know my mother used to say that my

> " grandma was watching every move I made " -trying to keep me in line or

> something- so I bet my grandma had a good laugh watching me light postal

> boxes on fire- but more than likely pretty angry that I wasn't better

> occupied…but your nada sounds like a real " mommie dearest " …I repeat

what I

> said about the webcam.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of christine

> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:02 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

>

>

> hey vicki - well, yeah! of course it's loopy! i had an encounter with

> a psychic as well when i was in my teens...the only thing she could

> tell me about my nada was that we would NEVER get along in this

> lifetime. when i hit my twenties, i thought i could remedy that but

> failed. it was then that i lost hope in any sort of relationship with

> her (n/c for 2 1/2 years! well, minus the times she's tried to

> penetrate my world with " legal/financial " matters). i guess the

> psychic was right, in both your case and my case.

>

> it sounds like you had a nada that rejected you quite a bit which is

> awful. but i love how us KO's manage to pull it together and find

> solace in the bizarre and dark comedy of it all. some of the stuff

> nada pulled on me, well, you just can't make that shit up!

> my nada was a hybrid of the hermit/witch so she didn't abandon me so

> much as yours. she was so paranoid that i was going to get killed or

> raped or kidnapped. she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> work? " )

>

> -and you wonder why i have panic disorder!

>

> love,

> christine.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again-

I got

> > > a good

> > > > laugh out of myself;

> > > >

> > > > Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked

as a

> > > stripper

> > > > twice in my life; at one point for

> > > >

> > > > 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

> > > all the

> > > > while I try to figure out my mother; I try

> > > >

> > > > To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone

wants to

> > > hear

> > > > something really freaky- I can tell them about

> > > >

> > > > What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this

> life; and

> > > > lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

> > > >

> > > > Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from

> > not a

> > > > church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vicki

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> > <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vi said,

> > > >

> > > > " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

> > randomly

> > > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even

when I'm

> > > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

> > > >

> > > > Everything you stated within your entire message is what I

feel; and

> > > have

> > > > for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

> > > felt this

> > > > tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

> > > mother was

> > > > worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

> > > knowing I

> > > > came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

> > created a

> > > > curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

> > > that she

> > > > aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

> > so that

> > > > day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over

and over

> > > again;

> > > > and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days

before she

> > > died;

> > > > because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

> > > way just

> > > > to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

> > > more than

> > > > it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

> > > more than

> > > > to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

> > > people; which

> > > > probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

> > apparently a

> > > > desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> > > > conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

> > > >

> > > > If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and

tell her

> > > to take

> > > > care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Vicki

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> > <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> > > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > > >

> > > > Hey ,

> > > >

> > > > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> > > >

> > > > I do have

> > > > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to

> be ok

> > > > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > > > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in

> reality, I

> > > > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More

> accurately,

> > > > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> > > >

> > > > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my

responsibility to

> > > > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > > > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my

purpose in

> > > > this world.

> > > >

> > > > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

> randomly

> > > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even

when I'm

> > > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> > > >

> > > > Love,

> > > > Vi

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

, I'm sorry I didn't get to this message earlier; so please- the

message I just sent with all my babble; sounding self centered after just

reading this now;

" Years later we were watching Oprah or something similar and someone

was talking about being molested, and she turned to me and said, in a

very dramatic and almost mocking way, " That never happened to YOU, did

it? " It's difficult to explain how that moment made me feel both

violated and mocked. "

Please don't think that I'm heartless or something- I think that woman was a

terrible bitch for saying/acting like that to you at that age; or any age

for that matter. She didn't call the cops or anything when you told her

what happened? That beats my mother's insults any day. I've made a vow to

myself to NEVER hold back from another or any rude ass person ever again;

just because they're OLD. That's no excuse; if anything they should have

even MORE class and courtesy when people are older. But for her to need an

Oprah show years later to ask you- What did you say to her then? Oh right-

she forgot! How simple is that?? Tell her she's never going to die; she's

going to rot away! Ask her what she's going to say when she meets her maker

one day! Never mind- she'll just find another insult for you probably. Tell

her that all of your friends know about her! Me anyway. I know the other

women on this board would vouch for you; and could probably write some

pretty impressive letters to " all of the NBPD parents out there " .

I didn't know about this until just opening this now; so please don't be

shocked with my other message- again, I had a lot in there about me. I'm

going to try to tone it down quite a bit folks! I'm here for you girls too;

not just for myself!

Vickitoria

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of vegdeanna

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:51 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> work? " )

That is such a terrible memory. It reminded me of this:

As some of you may remember my story, I was chased through the desert

by a pedophile when I was 12. He didn't catch me, but I told my

mother after I ran home, and she just told me to set the table. She

was not at all concerned.

Years later we were watching Oprah or something similar and someone

was talking about being molested, and she turned to me and said, in a

very dramatic and almost mocking way, " That never happened to YOU, did

it? " It's difficult to explain how that moment made me feel both

violated and mocked.

It was not my worst memory, just one of those " whuuuuuhhhh???? " moments.

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

" acknowledged i end up feeling guilty???? " - , that's because you and

I, and probably anyone that was abused by NBPD parents; husbands etc. are

taught that your hurts don't hurt; you do not deserve to share your

feelings; and nothing can be worse than what the NBPD support system had to

go through in the past, during the current; or will have to in the future!

They will hurt you; then punish you for even mentioning it; much less

oppose it! And, when you rub whatever it was that they did in their face

real good; to the point that there's no way they cannot understand what you

went through because of it- then they deny it. " I never said, or did that;

I WOULD NEVER do something like that; You need to get your head checked; you

need a hobby; I think there's something really wrong with you; and don't

forget the immediate- Wait till everyone in the family, the grocery store;

my friends and all of your friends find out what a big selfish little bit*ch

you are; wait until I never let you see your dad again; we'll see how you

feel about me the next time you're afraid of the dark; etc " .Then there's

always going to be a three day- " Oh, look what you've put me through; I

think I'm having another heart attack- and won't you hate yourself when I'm

dead!! "

I guess I'm really pissed about that one.

When my (X) husband and I were told we would have to take our son off the

respirator and wait for him to die in our arms; my mother said to me-

infront of my sister- " Don't let it get to you so bad; you can have more

children " - and by the way, that ring you're wearing is your grandma's - she

was a Valsvik- you're married now; you're a Bowers; you don't need to wear

that ring anymore; give it to me! " -all within two or three sentences she

spit all of this out- I just about wanted to break her jaw inside the

hospital.

I have to say that I don't care about what these BPD parents went through

when they were hurt in the past; there's no reason to repeat the abuse; if

it hurt- you just don't repeat that hurt to someone you're supposed to love!

That's it! You know what? These BPD people would do the world a huge favor

if they'd just all call one world wide day to pick their suicide of choice;

but to all do it on the same day! Too bad they'd all deny they had the BPD-

and they'd all still be alive; with their victims killing themselves. But

one thing us victims have learned is that suicide would only validate our

abuser's words that " we were the ones who were crazy all along " ! We just

have to outlive them; with much success; and show them what a normal life is

supposed to look like.

What do you think?

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of christine

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:50 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

vi - is it me or is it hard to accept apologies for abuse? i don't

mean that in a weird way, i mean that my initial reaction to them is

" oh, it wasn't that bad " . i know that i was abused, severely in my

adolescence to be particular. but i feel that any time it gets

acknowledged i end up feeling guilty????

thank you for your empathy, though. the little girl i was at seven did

not, indeed, need to hear those types of things and be ridiculed for

my response.

love,

christine.

>

> she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> > attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> > (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> > reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> > work? " )

>

>

> That's f-ing sick. An attack in itself. The best way to protect a

> child from abuse is with age-appropriate knowledge and reasonable

> confidence building. But somehow I suspect " protecting you " wasn't at

> the top of her priority list. Else, why would she attack you like that

> herself?

>

> I am so sorry you had to go through that abuse.

>

> Love,

> Vi

>

[Guest guest]

,

At this point, I DON'T accept apologies for abuse. I don't know if

it's due to me getting older, and feeling time begin to move faster,

and I don't want to waste my life on people like that; or if it's

because I've had abuse from so many DIFFERENT people and situations,

that I have just had it up to my eyeballs. My tolerance is at zero.

And it really is--I've cut loose a handful of peole just this past

school year who didn;t know how to act, and made like they wanted to

drag me into their petty meannesses. No way.

So, apologies for abuse? I don't wait around for them, and I'm not

sure I care anymore whether they're sincere or not. Arguing, fighting,

unpleasantness...these happen. Abuse shouldn't, and it stands out from

normal misbehavior. Nowadays I'm outta there before I even miss an

apology; but if one came, I think I'd just be embarrassed for the

person. After all, I just scratched their name off my list of people

to acknowledge the existence of--how embarrassing for them.

Vi

> >

> > she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> > > attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my

response.

> > > (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> > > reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> > > work? " )

> >

> >

> > That's f-ing sick. An attack in itself. The best way to protect a

> > child from abuse is with age-appropriate knowledge and reasonable

> > confidence building. But somehow I suspect " protecting you " wasn't at

> > the top of her priority list. Else, why would she attack you like that

> > herself?

> >

> > I am so sorry you had to go through that abuse.

> >

> > Love,

> > Vi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

It may be difficult to explain, but I know exactly how you felt.

It's hard to get across to outsiders how one thing our nadas did could

have been carefully calculated to produce two or more utterly

conflicting negative emotions, like intimidation and mockery, or fear

and anger, or humiliation and revulsion. People think that if you felt

more than one conflicting emotion, that you couldn't have been

" right " about what you felt. Well, guess again!

When the books say " masters of manipulation " , they mean like

manipulation as an art form, with our nadas as Renaissance masters.

Love,

Vi

The " Whaaah? " moment--another BPD original.

> > she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> > attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> > (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> > reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> > work? " )

>

>

> That is such a terrible memory. It reminded me of this:

>

> As some of you may remember my story, I was chased through the desert

> by a pedophile when I was 12. He didn't catch me, but I told my

> mother after I ran home, and she just told me to set the table. She

> was not at all concerned.

>

> Years later we were watching Oprah or something similar and someone

> was talking about being molested, and she turned to me and said, in a

> very dramatic and almost mocking way, " That never happened to YOU, did

> it? " It's difficult to explain how that moment made me feel both

> violated and mocked.

>

> It was not my worst memory, just one of those " whuuuuuhhhh???? " moments.

>

> -Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Hello!

Both big problems for me. I'm always rattling, constant upset

stomach, periods of tenseness in my back that has gotten so bad

lately I can barely clear the blind-spot in my car. And my shoulder

blades are beginning to make hearing difficult, being that they are

always locked up the side of head. I startle really hard a loud

noises, my hands shake a lot. Enough that people sometimes notice

and ask me about it. Embarrassing. Fear of dealing with/trusting

people (though that might be due in part to the fact that I'm a

third generation Vegas native). Xanax makes me cry because I can't

believe that I am capable of feeling like a normal, relaxed person,

if even just for a few hours. I like to sleep. A LOT. I worry

constantly. Panic Attacks and Depression run in my mother's side of

the family very heavily and growing up with a BPstepm didn't help my

odds at fighting the genetic disposition AT ALL. I'm strongly

considering therapy, but want to find one that understands

Borderline and can help a KO. None in my state unfortunately.

Though I have to say, finding the WOE book and jumping on this board

has helped tremendously.

Hello from a newbie.

>

> how many of us suffer from these two being KO's? i just want to

know

> if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

> strategies that relate to either or both.

>

> i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

> hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

> " childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

> witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

> incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've had

> severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc

(these

> are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it

started

> when i was about 5 or so.

> funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

>

> anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is to

just

> " go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

> allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

> that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite figured

out

> yet.

>

> here's to our collective healing....

>

> much love,

> christine.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello!

A psychic told me that my BPstep was/is my best, most close friend

on the other side and I am supposed to be helping her overcome her

problem.

Great. I've got her for eternity.

Whoopee.

-

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " "

wrote:

>

> Hi Deanna, , Lynn , Becky and all:

>

> I'm sorry I haven't been able to post any messages for the last 2-

3 days;

> I've been going through some rough times w/ the BP husband &

school- So I

> let it go~ and lived in my garden; and in the sun.Being inside the

house

> with him proved to be self sabotaging.

>

>

>

> Anyway, I went to a psychic whom I had never met before; she held

her

> appointments inside her house. She's shake my hand; lead me to her

> downstairs; and she would go back upstairs where I had entered;

sit in her

> kitchen( I suppose) and write about the vibes she picked up and

from what

> she said, she'd write according to what her spirit guide told

her. When she

> came walking down the stairs to tell me her findings, she took her

glasses

> away from her face and said, " Alive or dead, I'm really pissed off

at YOUR

> MOTHER (with that type of tone) And I've never even met the

woman.and don't

> ever want to " . I said,

> " Oh yeah? " ..She said that " Ever since you were about 2 years old

she

> realized that you did not need her- and ever since then, she has

been

> jealous of you; and has isolated you from your family and has

worked hard to

> ensure you had no friends unless they were able to serve HER! "

>

>

>

> I said, " Oh really? " (not wanting to tell her too much about my

life).She

> said, that for each lifetime we go through there is always a

different life

> we live.in what we might call our " dream world " .and she said that

my mother

> and I, including my two brothers and one sister she

mentioned.related to

> each other for different purposes in that world.and that I was a

fairy and

> she was a magician queen that thrived off a negative black entity;

and I was

> her enslaved " servant " that finally went against her.she went into

some wild

> stuff..

>

>

>

> But anyway, she told me about the Mother/daughter relationship;

and how I

> was psychic but allowed for my emotions to rule my life; and how I

need to

> get over the painful enslavement of my mother the queen- because

in this

> other life that went on in accordance to what we live now; except

in a

> different time zone.I had dismantled her throne; and she was

intimidated by

> me because she constantly had envisioned me doing this to her.

>

>

>

> I told the psychic she was very " right on " and although I couldn't

picture

> myself as a fairy; the " real life stuff " I believed.She also told

me much

> about my husband and a few other things.

>

>

>

> But I remember back as far as 2-3 yrs. Old when she left me in

the house

> alone; I was raised as a " tavern baby " so I didn't learn to " walk " -

I

> learned to " climb " .especially on top of the refridegerator behind

the bar

> where my crib was stationed. Upstairs, in the apartment above the

bar is

> where we lived.and one time she left me alone to do whatever.

>

> I remember I was really hungry and I was not strong enough to open

the

> fridge; and went to the cupboards. I remember trying to get to

the can

> opener while sitting on top of the countertop- which didn't work;

I couldn't

> reach down and pull the silverware drawer open. So I climbed on

top of the

> fridge; because I saw a bag of onions. Also on top of the fridge

was knife

> block and a lightbulb I discovered as it rolled off the fridge and

shattered

> on the ground. But it didn't scare me after I noticed my mother

didn't come

> running from the noise. my mouth was watering for that onion- so I

pulled

> out a knife from the block which I still remember being so heavy.

I held

> the onion and tried to cut it with the knife. Ofcourse the onion

slid out

> of my hand and I cut the tip of my finger off. I remember crying

over my

> finger that was hanging and gushing; and my mother just in time

opening the

> door coming back home saying, " Oh Vicki, mama shouldn't have left

you for so

> long! Why were you up there anyway? " I told her I was hungry. I

don't

> remember anything since then.

>

>

>

> This was the first memory that flashed in my mind going home from

the

> psychic- as she told me that my mother knew that from my age of 2

or 3 that

> I didn't need her; I was independent and self sufficient. And, I

have also

> cut myself many times along the way. But after she died, for some

reason,

> not taking up the opportunity to tell her exactly what she did to

me my

> entire life with her; I felt helpless. Simple things seemed

complicated. I

> don't know how long it lasted; my husband said at least a month.

But boy;

> if I had the opportunity now again; I would let her have it. At

least my

> sister did.

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks for letting me tell my story. I went through all the posts

and saved

> the ones I'd like to respond to; so I might be bringing up some

older

> subjects; but I am concerned for Lynn and hope she is okay; it

seems she's

> got just as loving of a spouse as I have.and that's pretty sad. So

Lynn if

> you around, please honk!

>

>

>

> Take Care All; and thank you for all the kind words and

encouragement!

>

>

>

> Vicki

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of vegdeanna

> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:45 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

>

>

> Vicki, I would love to hear it and NO you are not butting in. This

is

> everyone's conversation!

>

> -Deanna

>

>

> >

> > Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I

got

> a good

> > laugh out of myself;

> >

> > Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked

as a

> stripper

> > twice in my life; at one point for

> >

> > 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

> all the

> > while I try to figure out my mother; I try

> >

> > To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants

to

> hear

> > something really freaky- I can tell them about

> >

> > What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this

life; and

> > lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

> >

> > Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming

from not a

> > church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

> >

> >

> >

> > Vicki

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

> >

> >

> >

> > Vi said,

> >

> > " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when

I'm

> > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

> >

> > Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel;

and

> have

> > for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

> felt this

> > tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

> mother was

> > worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

> knowing I

> > came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

created a

> > curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

> that she

> > aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

so that

> > day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and

over

> again;

> > and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before

she

> died;

> > because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

> way just

> > to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

> more than

> > it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

> more than

> > to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

> people; which

> > probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

apparently a

> > desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> > conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

> >

> > If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell

her

> to take

> > care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Vicki

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> >

> > Hey ,

> >

> > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> >

> > I do have

> > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to

be ok

> > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my

mind,

> > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in

reality, I

> > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More

accurately,

> > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> >

> > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my

responsibility to

> > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my

purpose in

> > this world.

> >

> > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when

I'm

> > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> >

> > Love,

> > Vi

> >

> >