Re: panic disorder/depression

[Guest guest]

Hi , and thanks for putting this out there...I've

definitely suffered from both of these. I did have panic attacks

even as a child, and probably suffered from depression in my

teens/early twenties. The most bizarre aspect of this was that my

mother was delighted - this made me " like her " , as she suffered from

both. She would play her ultra-smothering nurturing role and go on

about how genetics were responsible for this. This as well as the

fact that any doctors I consulted never even mentioned the

possibility of therapy - probably because my mother would have

killed them - really made me think i was stuck with these problems.

Can I just interject on a related note: My mother called two nights

ago and spoke with my husband. She is very excited because my

heavily pregnant sister is apparently very fat and miserable - so

miserable that my motehr is going to fly out to her and " save her "

and bring her back. This is a long-standing fantasy of my mother's,

to save her children and bring them home where they belong. But the

two of them are so similar, I can't imagine either of them even

being functional enough to get to the hospital when my sister goes

into labor...

Sorry, that was an aside. On coping, therapy has made a world of

difference in the incidence of panic attacks or depression. But

during a panic attack, I try to tell myself that (1) it is just a

panic attack, and it will be over shortly and (2) that it does not

mean that I am not 100 times better than I was a few years ago.

Sara

>

> how many of us suffer from these two being KO's? i just want to

know

> if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

> strategies that relate to either or both.

>

> i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

> hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

> " childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

> witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

> incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've had

> severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc

(these

> are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it

started

> when i was about 5 or so.

> funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

>

> anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is to

just

> " go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

> allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

> that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite figured

out

> yet.

>

> here's to our collective healing....

>

> much love,

> christine.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't have panic attacks, but I have dealt with depression. Also,

as I've gotten older, near crippling inability to make decisions, no

matter how small.

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

Great question.

Depression, on and off since I can remember. I literally cannot

think of a time in my life when I did not fit the diagnositc

criteria until age 21. Meds (Wellbutrin) worked briefly, then

stopped working. Moving to a sunny climate helped, as did making the

astonishing realization that I was completely self-destructive.

Somehow, understanding that I did things because I hate myself and I

didn't believe I deserved any better motivated me to do some serious

internal digging.

I get occasional panic attacks (maybe 2 a year), but I do have

chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

To our collective healing, indeed. Best of luck to everyone - I

don't know how I went this long without y'all.

*hugs*

>

> how many of us suffer from these two being KO's? i just want to

know

> if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

> strategies that relate to either or both.

>

> i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

> hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

> " childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

> witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

> incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've had

> severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc

(these

> are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it

started

> when i was about 5 or so.

> funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

>

> anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is to

just

> " go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

> allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

> that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite figured

out

> yet.

>

> here's to our collective healing....

>

> much love,

> christine.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

I can relate to this entire paragraph:

I do have

> chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

> and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

> am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

> I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

this world.

And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

Love,

Vi

[Guest guest]

I still love your posts, Vi,

I don't know if you've all heard this story but it goes something like

this:

A man on a cross country bus from New York to Los Angeles asks a woman

what the people in L.A. are like. She asks " how did you find the

people in New York? " He says, " Oh, rude, pushy, angry, selfish, all

around jerks. " The woman says, " You will find they are the same in

L.A. " Later another man asks her the same question and she asks him

also, " How did you find them in New York? " The second man says, " Real

nice, friendly, basically all around good people. " And she says, " You

will find that they are the same in L.A. "

So...it's like that. Anyone can make a case that people suck.

Someone else can make a case that people are great. They could both

cite many, many examples, and they would BOTH be right.

What suck-diddly-ucks is that we find those things to be our truth.

As long as we think people stink, we attract stinky people. This is

one tenant of The Secret. I really believe it's true. Also, when

you're happy and a jerk does spend some time in your life, the impact

he makes is not as bad.

The trick is trying to change your belief before you see the proof.

Like if I want to find a man, I really have to believe it is possible

first. But with my history, it's so much easier to believe I won't.

*sigh*

Takes a lot of effort to change our beliefs!

-Deanna

>

> Hey ,

>

> I can relate to this entire paragraph:

>

>

> I do have

> > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

> > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

> > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

> > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

>

>

> Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> this world.

>

> And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

>

>

> Love,

> Vi

>

[Guest guest]

Vicki, I would love to hear it and NO you are not butting in. This is

everyone's conversation!

-Deanna

>

> Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I got

a good

> laugh out of myself;

>

> Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked as a

stripper

> twice in my life; at one point for

>

> 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

all the

> while I try to figure out my mother; I try

>

> To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants to

hear

> something really freaky- I can tell them about

>

> What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this life; and

> lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

>

> Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from not a

> church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

>

>

>

> Vicki

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of

> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

>

>

> Vi said,

>

> " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

>

> Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel; and

have

> for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

felt this

> tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

mother was

> worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

knowing I

> came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's created a

> curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

that she

> aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did so that

> day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and over

again;

> and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before she

died;

> because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

way just

> to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

more than

> it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

more than

> to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

people; which

> probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm apparently a

> desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

>

> If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell her

to take

> care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vicki

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

> Hey ,

>

> I can relate to this entire paragraph:

>

> I do have

> > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

> > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

> > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

> > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

>

> Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> this world.

>

> And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

>

> Love,

> Vi

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think you're butting in at all, but I'm glad you addressed

this, because I've had similar fears. From what I understand, you're

invited by default to take part in any conversation on the board

because it's a public forum. If it were a personal conversation,

we'd use private messaging. Am I wrong about this? Am I being rude

by jumping onto other people's threads and such? I have worried that

I might be breaking some unwritten rule . . . This might be the low

self-esteem and chronic self-doubt talking, but I would be

devastated if my postings were in some way rude. Please tell me if

they are!!!!!

That said, I would love to hear what the psychic said. Maybe all our

nadas are reincarnations of crazy royalty -- didn't the mothers of

the " great " rulers all seem out of their tree? (Constantine and

the Great come to mind . . .)

*hugs to all*

>

> Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I

got a good

> laugh out of myself;

>

> Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked as

a stripper

> twice in my life; at one point for

>

> 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

all the

> while I try to figure out my mother; I try

>

> To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants

to hear

> something really freaky- I can tell them about

>

> What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this life;

and

> lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

>

> Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from

not a

> church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

>

>

>

> Vicki

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of

> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

>

>

> Vi said,

>

> " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

>

> Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel;

and have

> for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

felt this

> tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

mother was

> worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

knowing I

> came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

created a

> curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

that she

> aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

so that

> day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and

over again;

> and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before

she died;

> because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

way just

> to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

more than

> it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

more than

> to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

people; which

> probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

apparently a

> desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

>

> If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell

her to take

> care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vicki

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%

40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

> Hey ,

>

> I can relate to this entire paragraph:

>

> I do have

> > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be

ok

> > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in

reality, I

> > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More

accurately,

> > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

>

> Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility

to

> save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose

in

> this world.

>

> And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

>

> Love,

> Vi

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like your story! I think my feelings about other people are one of

the most complicated threads in my KO tapestry right now. My nada was

a witch/hermit, and what I wrote in my post was less how I view

people, and more how I was *taught* to view them by her. She

definitely fostered an " us against the world " sort of thing with me,

that I had to hide my distaste for. I was several years out of high

school before I realized I actually *wasn't* a misanthrope like

her--that I actually like people a lot, think the better of most of

them, and am intrigued by us as humans and as individuals to a great

degree. That realization felt like such a betrayal, and I could never

fiure out why! I wish I'd known about BPD and its effects at twenty,

when I was beginning to uncover my true, positive feelings about the

human race. It would have helped justify a lot of what I felt.

But I have also learned that people AREN'T all the same. Pockets of

messed-up people exist here and there, gravitated towards each other

by their inner darkness. Some circumstances foster inner sickness,

others foster health. So do some people. In the past few years, I've

come across a number of these " pockets " of human ugliness, and it's

been a scary and invalidating ride. I feel like I'm beginning to gain

some perspective on my " seven years of bad luck " . I think I'd been

trying to go forward into my life without addressing some basic

problems, my nada's presence in my life being one. Also my tendency to

alwyas do what I think is " right " , not necessarily what I most wanted.

Contrary to what many of the sick people I encountered claimed, I

don't think I was like them. I don't think that I'd " been drawn " to

them because of some problem inside me, as many of them claimed. I

think it was more of a need to be opposed at every turn, until I

turned around and looked at the original nightmare, and finally purged

it from my heart. It was the original denial of myself. No matter what

I tried to do and to forgive, I wasn't going anywhere with my nada

still in my life.

Everything's different now that I'm NC. Everything's easier. My love

for people was always there, just buried. If I betray her by feeling

that way, tough shit. Odds are six billion to one that I'll see things

my way now.

Love always,

Vi

> >

> > Hey ,

> >

> > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> >

> >

> > I do have

> > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

> > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

> > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

> > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> >

> >

> > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> > this world.

> >

> > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> >

> >

> > Love,

> > Vi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

please feel free to go on about anything vicki, claire and others!

these are indeed public and i/we welcome ANY insights and experiences

no matter how " off topic " .

claire, i feel the same way about posting on here sometimes. " am i

talking about myself too much? " " am i being too self-absorbed? " " is

everyone annoyed when i post? " - i think all of us feel this way at

times. nice to hear you put it out there and relieve some of my own

anxious thoughts!

vicki - please feel free to post your story about the psychic. odd

that you mention it actually because i had an encounter with a psychic

around 15 years old and she told me, specifically, you and your mother

will NEVER get along in this life.....wondering if you had a similar

experience.

my heart goes out to all of you...peace in your journeys.

love,

christine.

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " christine "

wrote:

>

> how many of us suffer from these two being KO's? i just want to know

> if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

> strategies that relate to either or both.

>

> i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

> hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

> " childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

> witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

> incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've had

> severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc (these

> are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it started

> when i was about 5 or so.

> funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

>

> anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is to just

> " go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

> allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

> that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite figured out

> yet.

>

> here's to our collective healing....

>

> much love,

> christine.

>

[Guest guest]

, please elaborate on " go with them " as far as handling fears. My DH

is on a downhill path of physical disability and more and more I find myself

having to be the one to respond to those 'noises in the night'. I'm scared so

often of burglers, murderers, ghosts and goblins (silly at my age, but there you

go). I'm careful what I watch, read and hear so I don't feed that 'overactive

imagination' nada always said I had, but I do need to be more courageous. The

fact is, we live in a very peaceful rural area and have had no reason for fears,

but still they are there. -Leslye

christine wrote: how many of us suffer

from these two being KO's? i just want to know

if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

strategies that relate to either or both.

i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

" childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've had

severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc (these

are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it started

when i was about 5 or so.

funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is to just

" go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite figured out

yet.

here's to our collective healing....

much love,

christine.

---------------------------------

Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder

tool.

[Guest guest]

Hi and Vicky,

It's not quite a psychic, but...my mother puts a great deal of stock in

Chinese astrology. I am a snake, she is a tiger. As she pointed out numerous

times during my childhood, snakes and tigers are just not meant to get along.

Huh?

is

---------------------------------

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels

in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

[Guest guest]

hi leslye - it sounds like you live with a current and ever-present

sense of anxiety which is exactly what i live with (as well as many

others on here). that part i have not mastered. only with full-fledged

panic attacks have i managed to get them under control without the use

of drugs. i simply just let them happen and i've discovered that if i

let go and just let them happen, they tend to never come to fruition.

as far as the chronic sense of anxiety, that is one i struggle with,

too. my nada also said i had an " over active imagination " ! i live with

constant fear and i agree with claire here that i bear the weight of

the world on my shoulders. things like global warming can send me off

into a panicky despair. i try to limit myself with certain types of

info, too.

i think one thing that helps is that i am aware that i was shaped to

fear the world. nada was constantly telling me i could be attacked by

strangers at any time and that if i move to a big city that i will be

raped and murdered. it was her sick way of keeping me in her world so

that i would never leave her. as long as i can remember that these

were nada's ways to fence me in, i can deal with the fear a little

better. ....not completely there in feeling free from it though.

i wish i could be of more help! maybe someone else has some good

insights...

love,

christine.

how many of us

suffer from these two being KO's? i just want to know

> if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

> strategies that relate to either or both.

>

> i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

> hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

> " childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

> witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

> incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've had

> severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc (these

> are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it started

> when i was about 5 or so.

> funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

>

> anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is to just

> " go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

> allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

> that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite figured out

> yet.

>

> here's to our collective healing....

>

> much love,

> christine.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos

new Car Finder tool.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Leslye and - I too suffer from this sense of anxiety.

It has gotten a lot better with therapy but i still know that if I

go too long feeling isolated it can really weigh me down - if my

schedule is demanding I have to make a real effort to get out and

see friends, I really have a hard time spending a day or two

completely on my own. I would really fall apart if I were trapped

on a desert island or something, because my anxieties woudl drive me

nuts!

I just wanted to say that for me, this feeling is all wrapped up in

guilt. While my nada told me the same things about dangers of

cities and things that go bump in the night - she gets a thrill out

of scaring herself and others - these are not actually things i

think about. My chronic anxiety is about things that could go wrong

that would then be MY FAULT. This week I have worried about not

completing my work commitments this month, not doing my taxes

properly, not feeding my baby enough...the only consequence i really

worry about is someone being able to yell at me for something having

gone wrong that I could have prevented. *sigh* I still have such a

long way to go with this healing...I haven't lived with my mother

for over a decade and I'm still always preparing myself to be

screamed at.

Sara

how many of us

> suffer from these two being KO's? i just want to know

> > if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

> > strategies that relate to either or both.

> >

> > i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

> > hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

> > " childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

> > witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

> > incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've

had

> > severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc

(these

> > are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it

started

> > when i was about 5 or so.

> > funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

> >

> > anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is

to just

> > " go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

> > allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

> > that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite

figured out

> > yet.

> >

> > here's to our collective healing....

> >

> > much love,

> > christine.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos

> new Car Finder tool.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Leslye,

I get scared at night too (I did last night, although that was partially my

own fault for watching something scary late). Part of this fear, I am certain,

stems from not feeling secure as a child and being worried a lot that I was not

protected. These fears got much worse at night, particularly because I got left

alone a lot when I was arguably too young. I know it's weird to be afraid of

such things as adults, but I understand and I think it's okay!

is

---------------------------------

Got a little couch potato?

Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Guest guest]

hi christine,

i haven't posted in a while-but i wanted to let you know that i have

definitely done through both panic attacks and depression. i started

having panic attacks as a child, but didn't realize that of course

until i was an adult. i had panic attacks in college along with

depression. as an adult it stopped but seems to have morphed into

what's considered a mild case of OCD (it manifests as hypochondria).

so no more actual attacks or depression at this point. and i've

learned to cope with the OCD really well. so there is hope!

k8

>

> how many of us suffer from these two being KO's? i just want to know

> if this is a common theme among us and if we can share coping

> strategies that relate to either or both.

>

> i'm reading " understanding the borderline mother " (after much

> hesitation: pricey and full of info that makes me get lost in my

> " childhood " ) and found my nada alternated between a hermit and a

> witch. what's striking to me is that both of these induce an

> incredible sense of fear in their children - looking back, i've had

> severe panic attacks as a child: be it ghosts, murderers, etc (these

> are not actual, i would just fixate on being attacked)......it started

> when i was about 5 or so.

> funny, i just thought i had the disorder as an adult.

>

> anyway, one of my coping tips in dealing with panic attacks is to just

> " go with them " . i find resisting them makes the tension worse, so

> allowing to give into them pretty much makes it ease on its own.

> that's my two cents. the depression is one i haven't quite figured out

> yet.

>

> here's to our collective healing....

>

> much love,

> christine.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna, , Lynn , Becky and all:

I'm sorry I haven't been able to post any messages for the last 2-3 days;

I've been going through some rough times w/ the BP husband & school- So I

let it go~ and lived in my garden; and in the sun.Being inside the house

with him proved to be self sabotaging.

Anyway, I went to a psychic whom I had never met before; she held her

appointments inside her house. She's shake my hand; lead me to her

downstairs; and she would go back upstairs where I had entered; sit in her

kitchen( I suppose) and write about the vibes she picked up and from what

she said, she'd write according to what her spirit guide told her. When she

came walking down the stairs to tell me her findings, she took her glasses

away from her face and said, " Alive or dead, I'm really pissed off at YOUR

MOTHER (with that type of tone) And I've never even met the woman.and don't

ever want to " . I said,

" Oh yeah? " ..She said that " Ever since you were about 2 years old she

realized that you did not need her- and ever since then, she has been

jealous of you; and has isolated you from your family and has worked hard to

ensure you had no friends unless they were able to serve HER! "

I said, " Oh really? " (not wanting to tell her too much about my life).She

said, that for each lifetime we go through there is always a different life

we live.in what we might call our " dream world " .and she said that my mother

and I, including my two brothers and one sister she mentioned.related to

each other for different purposes in that world.and that I was a fairy and

she was a magician queen that thrived off a negative black entity; and I was

her enslaved " servant " that finally went against her.she went into some wild

stuff..

But anyway, she told me about the Mother/daughter relationship; and how I

was psychic but allowed for my emotions to rule my life; and how I need to

get over the painful enslavement of my mother the queen- because in this

other life that went on in accordance to what we live now; except in a

different time zone.I had dismantled her throne; and she was intimidated by

me because she constantly had envisioned me doing this to her.

I told the psychic she was very " right on " and although I couldn't picture

myself as a fairy; the " real life stuff " I believed.She also told me much

about my husband and a few other things.

But I remember back as far as 2-3 yrs. Old when she left me in the house

alone; I was raised as a " tavern baby " so I didn't learn to " walk " - I

learned to " climb " .especially on top of the refridegerator behind the bar

where my crib was stationed. Upstairs, in the apartment above the bar is

where we lived.and one time she left me alone to do whatever.

I remember I was really hungry and I was not strong enough to open the

fridge; and went to the cupboards. I remember trying to get to the can

opener while sitting on top of the countertop- which didn't work; I couldn't

reach down and pull the silverware drawer open. So I climbed on top of the

fridge; because I saw a bag of onions. Also on top of the fridge was knife

block and a lightbulb I discovered as it rolled off the fridge and shattered

on the ground. But it didn't scare me after I noticed my mother didn't come

running from the noise. my mouth was watering for that onion- so I pulled

out a knife from the block which I still remember being so heavy. I held

the onion and tried to cut it with the knife. Ofcourse the onion slid out

of my hand and I cut the tip of my finger off. I remember crying over my

finger that was hanging and gushing; and my mother just in time opening the

door coming back home saying, " Oh Vicki, mama shouldn't have left you for so

long! Why were you up there anyway? " I told her I was hungry. I don't

remember anything since then.

This was the first memory that flashed in my mind going home from the

psychic- as she told me that my mother knew that from my age of 2 or 3 that

I didn't need her; I was independent and self sufficient. And, I have also

cut myself many times along the way. But after she died, for some reason,

not taking up the opportunity to tell her exactly what she did to me my

entire life with her; I felt helpless. Simple things seemed complicated. I

don't know how long it lasted; my husband said at least a month. But boy;

if I had the opportunity now again; I would let her have it. At least my

sister did.

Thanks for letting me tell my story. I went through all the posts and saved

the ones I'd like to respond to; so I might be bringing up some older

subjects; but I am concerned for Lynn and hope she is okay; it seems she's

got just as loving of a spouse as I have.and that's pretty sad. So Lynn if

you around, please honk!

Take Care All; and thank you for all the kind words and encouragement!

Vicki

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of vegdeanna

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:45 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

Vicki, I would love to hear it and NO you are not butting in. This is

everyone's conversation!

-Deanna

>

> Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I got

a good

> laugh out of myself;

>

> Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked as a

stripper

> twice in my life; at one point for

>

> 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

all the

> while I try to figure out my mother; I try

>

> To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants to

hear

> something really freaky- I can tell them about

>

> What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this life; and

> lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

>

> Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from not a

> church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

>

>

>

> Vicki

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

> Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

>

>

> Vi said,

>

> " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

>

> Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel; and

have

> for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

felt this

> tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

mother was

> worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

knowing I

> came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's created a

> curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

that she

> aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did so that

> day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and over

again;

> and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before she

died;

> because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

way just

> to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

more than

> it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

more than

> to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

people; which

> probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm apparently a

> desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

>

> If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell her

to take

> care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vicki

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

> Hey ,

>

> I can relate to this entire paragraph:

>

> I do have

> > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

> > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

> > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

> > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

>

> Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> this world.

>

> And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

>

> Love,

> Vi

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi vicki - that is totally weird! whether people believe in psychics

or not, i do think they possess a great amount of intuition. your

story made me so sad - i can't believe a two year old had to scrounge

for food ...these nadas make me SO furious. again, i'm reading

understanding the borderline mother, and i'm feeling deep anger at my

hermit/witch nada for having the opportunity to " parent " me as i am

about your nada for " parenting " you.

thank you for sharing vicki -

love,

christine.

> >

> > Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I got

> a good

> > laugh out of myself;

> >

> > Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked as a

> stripper

> > twice in my life; at one point for

> >

> > 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

> all the

> > while I try to figure out my mother; I try

> >

> > To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants to

> hear

> > something really freaky- I can tell them about

> >

> > What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this life; and

> > lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

> >

> > Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from

not a

> > church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

> >

> >

> >

> > Vicki

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

> >

> >

> >

> > Vi said,

> >

> > " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

> >

> > Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel; and

> have

> > for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

> felt this

> > tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

> mother was

> > worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

> knowing I

> > came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

created a

> > curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

> that she

> > aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

so that

> > day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and over

> again;

> > and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before she

> died;

> > because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

> way just

> > to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

> more than

> > it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

> more than

> > to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

> people; which

> > probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

apparently a

> > desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> > conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

> >

> > If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell her

> to take

> > care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Vicki

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> >

> > Hey ,

> >

> > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> >

> > I do have

> > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

> > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

> > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

> > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> >

> > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> > this world.

> >

> > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> >

> > Love,

> > Vi

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for responding !

So you didn’t think the psychic thing was a little loopy? I guess it was a

“different way for a psychic to view their visions; but I sometimes wonder

about the “family or generational curses” mentioned in the bible. I’m not a

bible thumper, but I have found myself finding some very coincidental

stuff…it seems as though (for the last year & 1/2) all I have to do is close

my eyes and pick any page within it and the verse (is that what it’s

called?) points back to me exactly what I was going through or thinking

right at that time. It’s what turned me onto the bible. Maybe I should go

in the business? Lol

But, oh yeah- my mother pulled so much crap in addition to the neglect; etc.

She even set up a bunch of crap for all 4 of her children (offspring) in her

half assed will with additional requests for her “new family” to follow

through with. We all agreed that she should have never had any kids.

Especially me- being born a minimum of 20 years late; she thought she’d get

a mink ranch by having me and all she got was a 15 year nonstop welfare

check. (that’s the family’s joke, anyway)

One of the girls here had mentioned having family heirlooms held away from

her; probably in the attempt of what my mother did to us: You kids need to

kiss and wax my a** for quite some time before I let you even take a glance

of any heirlooms of your grandparent’s pieces; and also I read some of the

girls (hope our readers don’t mind me referring to them as “girls”- except

for our one male friend—sorry about that) but our readers talking about

taking pictures; possession of pictures; capturing those special moments

when people do not appreciate having their pictures made- oh yes, this was a

normal way of my mother.

Not only would she take them (as in producing them); she (and I didn’t

realize this until my sister brought it up) she cut my daughter’s bangs up

to her scalp when she was 3 then took her picture; she did the same to me

when I was 4; did the same to my sister when she first started catechism;

and then after she died my sister and I found a picture of her with her

bangs all screwed up when she was probably 4 or 5 years old. I told my

sister it was because she wanted all of us to resemble her so she could take

that credit; but Marsha does not agree with me and says it was out of

vindictive revenge. She could be right; because mother has pulled some

shockingly scarring crap always when I least expected it.

You know , after awhile who gives a sh*t if someone has BPD? They

don’t have to be hurtful right along with it. BPD is supposed to only be

“symptoms of extreme emotional highs, lows and resting periods- just long

enough to make you believe the person is a normal person with a**hole

tendencies.

Well, there’s a difference between being a crab ass and that someone being a

parent, and mentally & physically doing harmful, hurtful things to their own

dependants. But, even when my mother wasn’t directly hurting me, she was

always on the warpath on someone else; and taught me some really dandy ways

on how to get what I want, and how to just live life; like being sent to the

nun’s garden across the street to steal tomatoes; or to go and “hunt down my

father to get some money”. When my father found out the money was going

straight to her, the “bank of dad suddenly closed”. Did you live like an

orphan like I did?

Or what about when I used to take boxes of match books (from my mother’s old

bar she owned) and set a few books on fire, stick them in the mailbox; and

run/hide behind the Catholic Statues against the church on the main street

where I lived; watching the fire trucks put out the mailbox. Was this some

kind of ADHD on my part, or was it the “lack of raising and supervision”? I

only remember that I used to get in a lot of fights; was confronted often by

adults; and can look back at saying some pretty rude stuff to adults when

they were only being “nice” to me; as though I wouldn’t let anyone be nice

to me; perhaps because I just said whatever freely came out of my mouth

without thinking; very much so like my mother. But she never learned from

her mistakes; while I learned to hate myself for the longest time from my

mistakes. And of course this doesn’t fit in the category of hating myself,

but just looking back, there were some; many “dysfunctional occurrences”

during my childhood; here’s one:

I missed my first day of kindergarten I guess because I got myself ready

for school (wearing my jammies, robe and slippers- probably to be a smart

ass; who knows) but instead of going to school I took my lunch money and

hopped the city bus- I stayed on it for a few hours at least because by the

time I recognized my original bus stop, school almost ended and my oldest

brother had been driving around looking for me- saw me walking down

street and yelled at me all the way home.

I can’t remember whether my mom was sleeping or what- but I know she

wouldn’t send me to school wearing that; so I must have been alone that time

too! Here’s a good one; my brothers were/are 27+29 years older than me

right? Mother sent “the boys” with 5 bucks for them to get a school haircut

which left enough for a tip back then; they came back with what the oldest

one wanted- Mohawks! I’d say, in such a small town, the only town barber

must not have liked my mother too much! You think she would have learned.

I guess that’s one of the most disappointing parts of the BPD. Didn’t mean

to go back to the gloom and doom but it’s the truth. And as far as the

gloom and doom; I guess I’m handling it a bit better knowing that I’m not

the only one that’s gone through so much crap.

Hope you didn’t mind all the wordiness; I guess there are a few things I

could laugh at now; and also, I was never told by my siblings exactly what

they went through or how life was when they grew up until I was in my 30’s.

My sister still insists she was plain evil. I’ve really tried to think of

my mother as mentally ill; but too many things have seemed not to fit; if

BPD were a mental disability, I think over ½ the country would be

diagnosed…is this why the dysfunction has gone “un heard of “ for so long

until just recently?

Also, having a mother with major BPD + many more disorders, and all three

of my siblings also have hid it quite well with substance abuse but not as

often or constant as mother; ONLY and after realizing my husband is

Extremely BPD after about the 8th-9th year of going crazy around him…Does

this mean that I am too?? I’d like to say that he was the best I could do

being given my circumstances when we first got together; although I know I

got pregnant way too early (2 years before we married)- but that’s a whole

different topic…I know my brain is a little flightier- from one subject to

another; but I really think that if I knew about BPD before I met him, I

probably would have never fed him that first spaghetti dinner- or shared

that case of beer! (by the way, I haven’t drank since 2005)…

I bet we both could write 2 books! Go ahead and folks, tell me

your stories!

Take Care and All! I’ll be checking in and out the next two

days**

Vicki*

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of christine

Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 12:12 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

hi vicki - that is totally weird! whether people believe in psychics

or not, i do think they possess a great amount of intuition. your

story made me so sad - i can't believe a two year old had to scrounge

for food ...these nadas make me SO furious. again, i'm reading

understanding the borderline mother, and i'm feeling deep anger at my

hermit/witch nada for having the opportunity to " parent " me as i am

about your nada for " parenting " you.

thank you for sharing vicki -

love,

christine.

> >

> > Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I got

> a good

> > laugh out of myself;

> >

> > Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked as a

> stripper

> > twice in my life; at one point for

> >

> > 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

> all the

> > while I try to figure out my mother; I try

> >

> > To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants to

> hear

> > something really freaky- I can tell them about

> >

> > What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this life; and

> > lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

> >

> > Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from

not a

> > church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

> >

> >

> >

> > Vicki

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

> >

> >

> >

> > Vi said,

> >

> > " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

> >

> > Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel; and

> have

> > for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

> felt this

> > tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

> mother was

> > worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

> knowing I

> > came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

created a

> > curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

> that she

> > aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

so that

> > day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and over

> again;

> > and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before she

> died;

> > because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

> way just

> > to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

> more than

> > it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

> more than

> > to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

> people; which

> > probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

apparently a

> > desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> > conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

> >

> > If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell her

> to take

> > care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Vicki

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> >

> > Hey ,

> >

> > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> >

> > I do have

> > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to be ok

> > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in reality, I

> > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More accurately,

> > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> >

> > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> > this world.

> >

> > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and randomly

> > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> >

> > Love,

> > Vi

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

hey vicki - well, yeah! of course it's loopy! i had an encounter with

a psychic as well when i was in my teens...the only thing she could

tell me about my nada was that we would NEVER get along in this

lifetime. when i hit my twenties, i thought i could remedy that but

failed. it was then that i lost hope in any sort of relationship with

her (n/c for 2 1/2 years! well, minus the times she's tried to

penetrate my world with " legal/financial " matters). i guess the

psychic was right, in both your case and my case.

it sounds like you had a nada that rejected you quite a bit which is

awful. but i love how us KO's manage to pull it together and find

solace in the bizarre and dark comedy of it all. some of the stuff

nada pulled on me, well, you just can't make that shit up!

my nada was a hybrid of the hermit/witch so she didn't abandon me so

much as yours. she was so paranoid that i was going to get killed or

raped or kidnapped. she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

(i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

work? " )

-and you wonder why i have panic disorder!

love,

christine.

> > >

> > > Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I got

> > a good

> > > laugh out of myself;

> > >

> > > Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked as a

> > stripper

> > > twice in my life; at one point for

> > >

> > > 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

> > all the

> > > while I try to figure out my mother; I try

> > >

> > > To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants to

> > hear

> > > something really freaky- I can tell them about

> > >

> > > What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this

life; and

> > > lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

> > >

> > > Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from

> not a

> > > church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vicki

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vi said,

> > >

> > > " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

> randomly

> > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

> > >

> > > Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel; and

> > have

> > > for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

> > felt this

> > > tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

> > mother was

> > > worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

> > knowing I

> > > came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

> created a

> > > curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

> > that she

> > > aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

> so that

> > > day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and over

> > again;

> > > and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before she

> > died;

> > > because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

> > way just

> > > to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

> > more than

> > > it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

> > more than

> > > to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

> > people; which

> > > probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

> apparently a

> > > desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> > > conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

> > >

> > > If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell her

> > to take

> > > care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Vicki

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > >

> > > Hey ,

> > >

> > > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> > >

> > > I do have

> > > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to

be ok

> > > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in

reality, I

> > > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More

accurately,

> > > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> > >

> > > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> > > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> > > this world.

> > >

> > > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > Vi

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> work? " )

That's f-ing sick. An attack in itself. The best way to protect a

child from abuse is with age-appropriate knowledge and reasonable

confidence building. But somehow I suspect " protecting you " wasn't at

the top of her priority list. Else, why would she attack you like that

herself?

I am so sorry you had to go through that abuse.

Love,

Vi

[Guest guest]

Vi said to Bernadette,

" I suspect " protecting you " wasn't at

the top of her priority list. Else, why would she attack you like that

herself?

I am so sorry you had to go through that abuse. "

I'm really sorry you had to go through that too! And, I don't know how

everyone else feels about this, but I'd be the first to tell her that I

haven't forgotten it! And then tell her to deny it all she wanted; and that

God knows. And now we do too. Let her know there's a whole host of people

waiting to meet her! How bout if we all invest in web cams. Then we could

all give good ole nada the finger! I know that's pretty low class; but

people like that (and my mother is most definitely one of them) need to be

slapped and shamed in public!

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:15 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> work? " )

That's f-ing sick. An attack in itself. The best way to protect a

child from abuse is with age-appropriate knowledge and reasonable

confidence building. But somehow I suspect " protecting you " wasn't at

the top of her priority list. Else, why would she attack you like that

herself?

I am so sorry you had to go through that abuse.

Love,

Vi

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think I messed up the last note and sent it to Bernadette. Sorry about

that! What do you mean by “legal and financial matters”? and also did she

try to use the “rape, kill, kidnap” stuff to scare you; or to make you come

in before dark; or what?? Because I know my mother used to say that my

“grandma was watching every move I made”-trying to keep me in line or

something- so I bet my grandma had a good laugh watching me light postal

boxes on fire- but more than likely pretty angry that I wasn’t better

occupied…but your nada sounds like a real “mommie dearest”…I repeat what I

said about the webcam.

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of christine

Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:02 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

hey vicki - well, yeah! of course it's loopy! i had an encounter with

a psychic as well when i was in my teens...the only thing she could

tell me about my nada was that we would NEVER get along in this

lifetime. when i hit my twenties, i thought i could remedy that but

failed. it was then that i lost hope in any sort of relationship with

her (n/c for 2 1/2 years! well, minus the times she's tried to

penetrate my world with " legal/financial " matters). i guess the

psychic was right, in both your case and my case.

it sounds like you had a nada that rejected you quite a bit which is

awful. but i love how us KO's manage to pull it together and find

solace in the bizarre and dark comedy of it all. some of the stuff

nada pulled on me, well, you just can't make that shit up!

my nada was a hybrid of the hermit/witch so she didn't abandon me so

much as yours. she was so paranoid that i was going to get killed or

raped or kidnapped. she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

(i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

work? " )

-and you wonder why i have panic disorder!

love,

christine.

> > >

> > > Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again- I got

> > a good

> > > laugh out of myself;

> > >

> > > Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked as a

> > stripper

> > > twice in my life; at one point for

> > >

> > > 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

> > all the

> > > while I try to figure out my mother; I try

> > >

> > > To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone wants to

> > hear

> > > something really freaky- I can tell them about

> > >

> > > What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this

life; and

> > > lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

> > >

> > > Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from

> not a

> > > church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vicki

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vi said,

> > >

> > > " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

> randomly

> > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

> > >

> > > Everything you stated within your entire message is what I feel; and

> > have

> > > for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

> > felt this

> > > tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

> > mother was

> > > worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

> > knowing I

> > > came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

> created a

> > > curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

> > that she

> > > aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

> so that

> > > day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over and over

> > again;

> > > and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days before she

> > died;

> > > because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

> > way just

> > > to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

> > more than

> > > it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

> > more than

> > > to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

> > people; which

> > > probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

> apparently a

> > > desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> > > conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

> > >

> > > If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and tell her

> > to take

> > > care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Vicki

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > >

> > > Hey ,

> > >

> > > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> > >

> > > I do have

> > > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to

be ok

> > > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in

reality, I

> > > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More

accurately,

> > > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> > >

> > > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my responsibility to

> > > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my purpose in

> > > this world.

> > >

> > > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

randomly

> > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even when I'm

> > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > Vi

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

vicki - your finger comment was funny! well, i can quite honestly say

that indeed, my nada was afraid of everything and kept me in the house

or on the concrete patio of our apartment most of my childhood. i can

honestly say that i never had play dates, don't have any memories of

being taken to parks (expcept one time with my grandpa) and have

absolutely no memories of playtime with nada. my childood memories

were of me alone, playing alone because nada beat it in her own head

that i would be raped/kidnapped/murdered. essentially, i was kept in a

box. i've suffered a lot of social anxiety because of it. i am pretty

terrified in social settings but i'm learning to adjust. thank god for

everyone here, my husband and my therapist.

the legal/financial matters are the only ways nada knows to get a

response from me. every 5-6 months, i'll get some request from her to

send my personal info for some legal bullshit that never makes any

sense. anyway, i've wised up to her trying to pry back in, much thanks

to this board.

thank you vicki for letting me share...

here's to our healing!

love,

christine.

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " " wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> I think I messed up the last note and sent it to Bernadette. Sorry

about

> that! What do you mean by " legal and financial matters " ? and also

did she

> try to use the " rape, kill, kidnap " stuff to scare you; or to make

you come

> in before dark; or what?? Because I know my mother used to say that my

> " grandma was watching every move I made " -trying to keep me in line or

> something- so I bet my grandma had a good laugh watching me light postal

> boxes on fire- but more than likely pretty angry that I wasn't better

> occupied…but your nada sounds like a real " mommie dearest " …I repeat

what I

> said about the webcam.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of christine

> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:02 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

>

>

>

> hey vicki - well, yeah! of course it's loopy! i had an encounter with

> a psychic as well when i was in my teens...the only thing she could

> tell me about my nada was that we would NEVER get along in this

> lifetime. when i hit my twenties, i thought i could remedy that but

> failed. it was then that i lost hope in any sort of relationship with

> her (n/c for 2 1/2 years! well, minus the times she's tried to

> penetrate my world with " legal/financial " matters). i guess the

> psychic was right, in both your case and my case.

>

> it sounds like you had a nada that rejected you quite a bit which is

> awful. but i love how us KO's manage to pull it together and find

> solace in the bizarre and dark comedy of it all. some of the stuff

> nada pulled on me, well, you just can't make that shit up!

> my nada was a hybrid of the hermit/witch so she didn't abandon me so

> much as yours. she was so paranoid that i was going to get killed or

> raped or kidnapped. she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> work? " )

>

> -and you wonder why i have panic disorder!

>

> love,

> christine.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hey folks, it's me butting into someone's conversation again-

I got

> > > a good

> > > > laugh out of myself;

> > > >

> > > > Regarding that last message I posted; can you believe I worked

as a

> > > stripper

> > > > twice in my life; at one point for

> > > >

> > > > 3 years and just two years ago- for 10 months? Married yet! And

> > > all the

> > > > while I try to figure out my mother; I try

> > > >

> > > > To figure out myself- the walking contradiction! If anyone

wants to

> > > hear

> > > > something really freaky- I can tell them about

> > > >

> > > > What this psychic told me about my mother and I during this

> life; and

> > > > lifetimes ago; it shocked me because there's no

> > > >

> > > > Possible way anyone could know what she said. This is coming from

> > not a

> > > > church goer; but a bonified spiritual Christian.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vicki

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> > <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:29 PM

> > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: RE: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Vi said,

> > > >

> > > > " And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

> > randomly

> > > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even

when I'm

> > > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT... "

> > > >

> > > > Everything you stated within your entire message is what I

feel; and

> > > have

> > > > for my entire life; sometimes more than other times; but now have

> > > felt this

> > > > tremendously for the last 3 years. I do know that living with my

> > > mother was

> > > > worse than her abandoning me; but what is worse than any of it is

> > > knowing I

> > > > came from her; she or I should say, " I " am of her blood; she's

> > created a

> > > > curse for all of her children; including the 3? And probably more

> > > that she

> > > > aborted; and when she told me she wished she aborted me- she did

> > so that

> > > > day; and each time I gave her a chance, she aborted me over

and over

> > > again;

> > > > and slapped me in my face the last time I saw her; 4 days

before she

> > > died;

> > > > because my daughter tattled and said that I drove 96mph the whole

> > > way just

> > > > to see her. Now she's dead; but her spirit lives on and haunts me

> > > more than

> > > > it deserves; and she got exactly what she wanted. I want nothing

> > > more than

> > > > to be accepted; to not be mistreated; as I am too friendly to

> > > people; which

> > > > probably scares them away; or freaks them out thinking I'm

> > apparently a

> > > > desperate freak. I am sorry to some people for butting into their

> > > > conversations; I only thought this was a place where we vent;

> > > >

> > > > If Lynn is around, and If she's okay, I'd like to know and

tell her

> > > to take

> > > > care of herself; and that my heart goes out to her.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Vicki

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1@

> <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1@

> > <mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vshek_2007

> > > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:49 PM

> > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: Re: panic disorder/depression

> > > >

> > > > Hey ,

> > > >

> > > > I can relate to this entire paragraph:

> > > >

> > > > I do have

> > > > > chronic/almost constant anxiety, like nothing's ever going to

> be ok

> > > > > and I have the weight of the world on my shoulders as I try to

> > > > > decide how to save it (the world - clearly this is my

> > > > > responsibility). I act fearless in some ways (speaking my mind,

> > > > > bungee jumping, roaming the city alone at night), but in

> reality, I

> > > > > am afraid of almost everything, especially people. More

> accurately,

> > > > > I think I am afraid of what people can/will do to me.

> > > >

> > > > Like, the world's out to get me, but it's still my

responsibility to

> > > > save it from itself. This comes from having to save my nada from

> > > > herself, as well as explicit spiritual teachings about my

purpose in

> > > > this world.

> > > >

> > > > And the people in it are treacherous, tricksy, capricious and

> randomly

> > > > cruel, so I'd better be on my guard for the next jab, even

when I'm

> > > > having " fun " with them. Huh. Wonder where I got THAT...

> > > >

> > > > Love,

> > > > Vi

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

vi - is it me or is it hard to accept apologies for abuse? i don't

mean that in a weird way, i mean that my initial reaction to them is

" oh, it wasn't that bad " . i know that i was abused, severely in my

adolescence to be particular. but i feel that any time it gets

acknowledged i end up feeling guilty????

thank you for your empathy, though. the little girl i was at seven did

not, indeed, need to hear those types of things and be ridiculed for

my response.

love,

christine.

>

> she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> > attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> > (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> > reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> > work? " )

>

>

> That's f-ing sick. An attack in itself. The best way to protect a

> child from abuse is with age-appropriate knowledge and reasonable

> confidence building. But somehow I suspect " protecting you " wasn't at

> the top of her priority list. Else, why would she attack you like that

> herself?

>

> I am so sorry you had to go through that abuse.

>

> Love,

> Vi

>

[Guest guest]

> she would ask me what i would do if someone was to

> attack me when i was around seven or so and then laugh at my response.

> (i would tell her something " lame " , like " fight back! " to which her

> reply was a sarcastic laugh and " do you really think that's going to

> work? " )

That is such a terrible memory. It reminded me of this:

As some of you may remember my story, I was chased through the desert

by a pedophile when I was 12. He didn't catch me, but I told my

mother after I ran home, and she just told me to set the table. She

was not at all concerned.

Years later we were watching Oprah or something similar and someone

was talking about being molested, and she turned to me and said, in a

very dramatic and almost mocking way, " That never happened to YOU, did

it? " It's difficult to explain how that moment made me feel both

violated and mocked.

It was not my worst memory, just one of those " whuuuuuhhhh???? " moments.

-Deanna