RE: Re: Thyroid and hormones

[Guest guest]

>Have you ever tried the T4/T3 synthetic?

I have no thyroid gland, so only taking the synthetic version of T4/T3

without the rest of the thyroid hormones would most likely have the same

effect being on only $ynthroid had, which nearly killed me. Without the rest

of my thyroid hormones, I was not able to metabolise the $ynthroid or

anything else.

>I know that Armour has some other thyroid componants that you can't get on

the synthetic.

Yes, it has - the rest of the thyroid hormoens the body requires to function

properly. .

>I would be willing to possibly change, but I'm still a little nervous about

>upsetting the thyroid balance (kind of)that I have right now and also

>the animal variable in the Armour.

Armour is quite stable, whereas most of the synthetics are allowed a

variable potency. For example, the FDA actually allows synthroid to have a

variable potency of up to 75%.

>I am just wondering how the PCOS plays into having the thyroid working

correctly.

>I wonder if I tried the Armour I might not have the PCOS issue at all and

it might

>benefit my 16 yr old w/Hashi.

I don't really know about PCOS, but I'm assuming it's a sex hrmones

imbalance?

But from what I have learned in my long strugge to make myself healthy is

that when

the thyroid is regulated correctly, for the individual, it seems easier to

regulate everything

else. By the way, hormone replacement therapies are quite individual...since

we are

not clones. One size does not fit all.

Sam

(thyroid-less, ovary-less, and Armour-ized, etc)

k9gang@...

[Guest guest]

We also just had Hurricane Wilma here, and 50% still do not have power, 10 days later, so keep that in mind if you can’t get thru. The phones are intermittent also, and 95% of traffic lights are out, so everyone is very stressed & delayed.

nne

WOW nn, bet you need more of everything right now, HUGS, XOXOXOOOXXO

[Guest guest]

I find I have to take enough E first, before I can tolerate anything else. I keep wondering about the patch, or 2.

nne

you're right I did think throid, LOL. And what are you wondering about the patches or two. I had my last RX for patches messed up, BUT blessings come in weird ways, I found I was getting surges of E with them, unlike most people, and I would whip through the 8mg. estraderm patch in 24 or less hours......did that and the OOE, now just on OOE and OOTest. will be adding the NT/ Armour soon.....gonna call and see if I can get in for my mandatory retest then back on med. ) I don't mind dabbing on OOE, just take it with me, easy to use too:))

[Guest guest]

I just made an appointment. First one was Dec 6th. Phone consult.

Yeah, GOOD for you Liz, he sounds busy, good sign:))

glad to see ya:)))) XOXOX

[Guest guest]

As far as the patch goes, I thought it dripped it in, so slow and steady, and thus more like the body would do. Vilet talks about changing it every day if you run thru a lot of E. would that up the dose? I don’t know anything about them.

I'm like the person Vliets speaks of , a daily changer.....but that is 8mgs. didn't seem to hold me, still needed OOE on top of that, so why bother with the expense and hassle, for you it may work....24 are like $66.......so it's spendy. As for getting on your son, that is hard, keeping it under clothes is good. Vaginally, think you'd need to much and get to big a jolt, if you were going for all your symptoms to get relieved??? All's this is for you to try and see I guess, wish I was more help, )

[Guest guest]

I guess I need the OOE, and carry bag. Where are you applying it? Always the same or move it around? I have heard both,

You are a big help,

Thanks,

nne

nne, I'm sure anyone can make up the OOE, BUT we know WIP OOE works. Who does Dr. W use for compounding? WIP is cheap too.....if you can order the 30 or 60 ml. size, the larger the cheaper, I get 2mgs. per drop, some women get 1mg. per drop....same price. I seem to never go under 1 mg.at a time, LOLLOL. I use my inner thighs, and anywhere I would put a patch, if I'm out and about just use my wrists, or that tricept area where there is more meat, LOL. I use alot more than you, I'm a 12+ mgs. a day right now, may go down when I add thyroid meds., I did last time. Funny when my thyroid is low I need more E and when I get thyroid in me I need less E ) . I think E takes up the slack for all hormones, at least it does in me. I LOVE E )) and that's one thing my Dr is GOOD about, she has NO FEAR of E:)), she likes Test, too:)) XOXXO

[Guest guest]

I would imagine anyone can make the OOE, but I get mine from WIP (Women's Internl Pharmacy), but you may not want to change if the cream is working for you. Just don't put it in your vagina!!! OOE may bring in another dimension. You have to use it 3 times a day, at least that is what I discovered from experience. Some of us love it, some of us dislike it! But the good thing is that you can put it in your vagina! Only olive oil and hormones! Voila!

Madeleen

I second that, nne, if you like what you have now, and just want to explore, keep some of your cream on hand to fall back on. I do my OOE 3-5 times a day, each day is new and different:)) I had my Testosterone made up in OO too:)) OH be careful where you put your Test. you can grow hair there......I use my bikini area that I shave anyway.....haven't noticed any change, but I'm on a baby dose of 0.1mgs. LOL,

[Guest guest]

I am STILL having a problem with the P though. When I take it for a few weeks, after those few weeks, I start getting symptoms again -- pain, dry eyes, itchy skin. I'm telling you, I STILL want a Progesterone meter!

, I remember reading in one of Vliets stories, about a woman that she had use P just everyother or third day and for just 10-12 day of the month and at night......it was the BUILD UP that was causing her all the problems. By the time she felt good, she had to start the P again, the effect was an ill down hill spiral. So from say day 14-25 I think she said, so that wouldn't be very many days of P use each month.Oh and if I recall, she had her do eeek, like 100mgs, but at night only. So that would figure out to be about 6-7 days of P a month.....I'll try and find it.

[Guest guest]

I'm taking 25 mg of DHEA and now started on 2mg of Test. a day but I STILL have no libido. I don't know where the hell it went.

did you get the Savvy Woman's Guide to Testosterone, by Vliet yet????? Thyroid is important for libido too:))) BUT even that needs EEEEEEE first, ) OH and is that oral or transdermal Test???? 2mgs. is ALOT for transdermal, ) average transdermal dose is 0.1mgs to 0.5mgs. for oral it would be1-5mgs, )

[Guest guest]

Yes it will grow hair. I put it on the inner thigh, and the longest hairs are growing there! I wax though, but thought it was interesting.

nne

HEY, maybe some of those women who lost hair could put it on their scalps.......BUT may come in curly, LOLLOLLOL.......)

[Guest guest]

- 12 mgs??? Do you really need that much? (Look whose talking -- I'm the one who gets hot flashes at 5mgs a day) I wish there was someone who could actually tell us for a FACT, the actual amount of mgs we are ingesting!

, I don't think mgs. are what matters, it's how you feel. My Dr. has no problem with E, 12mgs. or what ever I need, E is GOOD )

[Guest guest]

My doctor finds us all amusing at how we are treating ourselves, by the way. He is a member of this group.

HI DR. welcome to the RL. Bet you are better informed on REAL life BHRT than most other Drs. out there, good for YOU, )

[Guest guest]

Liz - P will CALM you. Hurry up and put some ON! 9 mgs of E makes you hyper!

>>>>>>>>>>>>EKKKKKKKKK P (((((no, Liz, slow down, I think YOU are on track, E and your thyroid........I can't seem to go below the old 6BID which is 12mgs., spread out in 3-5 doses......I think my body is hardwired for WP now, it is a LIFE sentence.....any less and I get low E symptoms....NOT GOOD. Call if you want:)) XOXOXXO

[Guest guest]

I'm still taking 1/2 grain of Armour. My doc said my thyroid is okay.

did you read that Dr. W site I put on list???? TSH means nothing if you are on thyroid replacement....gotta treat symptoms:)) 1/2 may not be enough, no offense Doc )

[Guest guest]

was hyper on 2mgs of E And P really makes me weird.

I'm not really afraid of the E. I think key for me is consistent.

Liz

What knd of E Liz.......LEMON????????????? That made me hyper to,

goes in to fast, like a gel,

[Guest guest]

-I'm not sure how much TIME he has to read all these messages!

LOLLOLLOL................, just there if he does, LOL,

[Guest guest]

Hmmmmm - I start getting sore breasts over 4 mgs

, I do if I get in limbo, like when you started developing in highschool, then if I get enough it goes away.....BUT that is just ME,

[Guest guest]

Yes, lemon but I was also doing the rose

BUT I thought the rose gave you no E, maybe you aren't getting enough with the lemon either??? When I tried Laurel's Lemon stuff, I got all wam, flush and then felt unsettled, kinda nervous, then it left and felt I needed E again.............wasn't good for me (

[Guest guest]

This is why I don't think I'm getting enough. My breasts are still saggy.

GOOD CLUE, mine are nice and perky......flull, but not swollen ) YES, no wonder you feel like sh*t...........wish I could blop some OOE on ya )) AHHHHHHHH ) XOXOX

[Guest guest]

Madeleen,

I don’t

know about that. I do know that he e-mailed me back once. At the time I wanted

some chelating stuff for my son, and I didn’t want to wait and see if he

would prescribe it at the appointment. So I wrote him, and he actually replied.

That was before we had met at all. So I would call or e-mail and see if he

will.

or knw6@...

You might mention

The Skoog Family as reference.

We also just had

Hurricane Wilma here, and 50% still do not have power, 10 days later, so keep

that in mind if you can’t get thru. The phones are intermittent also, and

95% of traffic lights are out, so everyone is very stressed & delayed.

nne

Ps, my step

daughter goes to him also, and now lives up north. She got screwed up trying to

get her scripts fills while at school, and totally went off thyroid for 2

months. Talk about a set back. Anyway, she got 1 year worth of everything she

needs, so she can just stay working with him no matter where she lives. She

left here with thousands of armour pills LOL

So, maybe a trip

to Sunny Florida is in your future? (just not in hurricane season)

nne

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Madeleen

Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005

12:52 PM

To: rhythmicliving

Subject: RE: Re:

Thyroid and hormones

nne, Does he do phone consults? I am in WA, but I would be

willing to work with a doc virtually! Madeleen

[Guest guest]

nne,

What form of E are you using right now?

Liz

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of nne SkoogSent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:07 AMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: RE: Re: Thyroid and hormones

,

Yes we added T before E. (you must have thought I meant thyroid) That was the mistake. I was taking 3 mg. of T for several months, and retested, and still needed it. I was getting E effects from the T mostly.

Now I know you should prime with E first. At the time I asked for T for libido my E looked good. 200something, probably from the 50 DHEA I took. Now a year later, I know that many things I was taking was blocking my E. So now that I am on E, I see that I need both, and much more E, or one that doesn’t shoot out of me, with the first stress.

I find I have to take enough E first, before I can tolerate anything else. I keep wondering about the patch, or 2.

nne

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Nuimom@...Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:36 PMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: Re: Thyroid and hormones

I am still waiting for my libido to return. I know it must be more E,because more T didn't do it.

Have you added any Testosterone yet???? a little dab may DO ya, LOLLOLLOL ))))

click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

I have to start out by telling ya that I absolutely think the synthetic

thyroid replacement meds are crap because of my horrendous experiences with

them, but that's just me. I'm way way way biased against them, so please

keep that in mind. I suppose if I were an android, the synthetics would be

just swell, but I'm not, I'm a mammal. I just wonder how bio-identical the

synthetics really are because of the side effects I got. If they were

actually bio-identical, they'd just work like a charm one would think? Oh

well, anyway...

>WOW, I say WOW....so my getting a TSH of 0.023 was the way you like

yours:)))

You betcha. That low TSH means you're getting thyroid hormones, that's all.

Doesn't really say if you're using them well, tho.

It means you've got enough of whatever it is you've taken to lower the TSH.

The TSH is just the blow-horn that's used to yell at the thyroid to produce

more juice.

>My Dr. FREEEEEKed out big time

Head spinning around in wobbly circles, and all that exorcist stuff I bet.

<grin>

I like it when they have brain seizures over it and then explode.

Heh...heh...heh...

" you're gonna die of a heart attack at some point in the future with that

TSH... "

And I blithly tell them that I could also die in a car accident on top of

the Empire

State Building in 2095... When they lower our thyroid meds and we become

hypO

once again, they've effectively increased our risk of heart problems about

40%.

Lovely, huh? Why don't they know these things? Argh! I just want to do a

Three Stooges

eye poke to them when they spew out jibberish like that...

>I was on 20mcgs T3, cytomel. My temps started getting up there 99.4.....

>yet my FT4 was at the very bottom of range and my FT3 was at the top of the

range,

>most likely from the cytomel.

Correct. My normal body temp is 98.6 or thereabouts, but at night it's an

eensy bit higher, which is normal.

Cytomel is sort of a little rough, tho. Some folks tend to not do well on it

long term, while others do.

I personally don't believe it's a good long term med, but that's just my

opinion.

>I still had cold hand on and off, yet would be HOT, like I was melting

inside.

>I started feeling very hyper, so I went off T3 and am going to retest,

would be after 5 weeks.

What about lowering the dose, or switching to one of the whole natural

thyroid meds with adrenal support?

>I found out I was on a cream that wasn't giving me my E, down to 35 from

445....so alot of my " low thyroid " stuff was NO E.

Oh, so it was like a Hot Flashy thing? I've done that when I didn't have

enough progesterone for the amount of Oestrogel I was taking. I'm now on 1

heaping teaspoon of Oestrogel (about 3+ way fat lines), 2 grams of 80mg/gm

progesterone cream, and 1 gram of .5% testosterone gel per day. That seems

to be my perfect mix, but not sure what my saliva/blood numbers are since I

can get not one dr to test my sex hormone levels (and I'm like poor-ish),

however since I don't have ovaries, what I'm putting in is most likely what

my levels are, I guess. But I feel very ok, and everything is working very

spiffy, and I've got just the best boobs and I'm all wiggly and giggly.

<grin>

>My AM temp. is 97.1to 97-6, so not too bad, it is colder here now and have

the cold hands

>and feet thing still, I maybe a T4 canidate????

You know, 98 degrees or below is a hypO symptom.

>I was on NT and felt good at first but needed more, as I went up I started

getting hyper, heart palps,

>and sweat that smelled like the inside of the NT bottle, would get hot and

flushed 1-2 hours after I took it.

NT is Naturethroid? If so, I betcha you merely needed to be on some adrenal

support. That hypEr feeling was very likely your adrenals. Same thing

happened to me on Armour before I started Deltacortril (prenisolone). By the

way, I never stopped Armour when I started the adrenal support, I just added

it to my morning pill " meal " - 800mg of ibuprophen (back njury in '87), 2

delta pills, 3 Armours, coffee with the works, wait an hour, shower, and

apply my hormone skin creams, and then shave my Eastern European female Fu

Manchu, brush my partials (lost all but 10 of my beautiful teeth from being

RAI hypO), and I'm set for the day.

>I too am like a hummingbird...but my temps are low, and the sensitivity to

cold, makes me think thyroid.

Cytomel will get you jittery. Maybe you really are not absorbing it well, or

perhaps you actually need to get the rest of the thyroid hormones to be able

to metabolize the thyroid meds??? I'm not a dr...hmmm, maybe that's a good

thing. <wink>

Oh oh oh, I wanted to say something about low TSH. Some drs will try to

scare folks by saying that a low or supressed TSH will cause bone loss.

Well, that is just a total load of monkey poop. I myself now have bones of

steel and my TSH has been supressed for a while, in fact I have dental

x-rays over the course of 3 months (while increasing my Armour) that show

the increase in bone density and re-growth of the bones in my jaw. It's

amazing to see the progression and my dentist was totally fascinated - she

hadn't ever seen that before.

Sam

k9gang@...

[Guest guest]

Right now I am using the transdermal

cream. I was trying the gel, and it seemed I needed a dose often, or it was too

fast, in and too fast out. So now the cream is not as powerful a punch, and not

as jerky in and out. I need about 6 mg a day of either product. I don’t

have the OOE that you all have.

6mg seems so huge for me, but I just use

it up I guess.

One interesting thing I found is my

hanging, sagging skin is retracting! I was taking GH for that. It didn’t

help at all, in fact it sort of made it worse. I lot fat and thus more sagging

skin. The E is pulling that skin right up before my eyes! The fast gel showed

me what E is good for! Now I just need the E to stick around longer, or loose

the fear of what is really too much. Why is everyone scared of E? They already

proved that breast cancer was from the progestin in the HRT, not the E.

As far as the patch goes, I thought it

dripped it in, so slow and steady, and thus more like the body would do. Vilet

talks about changing it every day if you run thru a lot of E. would that up the

dose? I don’t know anything about them.

As far as the cream all day, I am afraid

of getting it on my young son. Maybe I should do the cream vaginally? Yesterday,

I was rubbing some on my side, so it would be under my shirt, and my DH walked

up and put his hand right on it! I live in Florida, and wear sleeveless and shorts most

always, so not much hidden skin.

nne

nne,

What form of E are you using right now?

Liz

[Guest guest]

Nuimom@... wrote:

I just made an appointment. First one was Dec 6th. Phone consult.

Yeah, GOOD for you Liz, he sounds busy, good sign:))

glad to see ya:)))) XOXOX

Wow Liz you are on the ball!! Please tell us how your phone consult works out for you!

Madeleen

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

nne Skoog wrote:

I need about 6 mg a day of either product. I don’t have the OOE that you all have.

6mg seems so huge for me, but I just use it up I guess.

Doesn't sound huge to me! I have given up worrying about dosing too much. It doesn't help me at all. Just makes me uptight. And I want to feel good. I hear more and more that there are docs out there who do not mind if women take more E if they need it! I need enough E to keep my brain working! Otherwise I am just a "duh duh can't remember s..t" kind of a woman. Not ready for that!

As far as the patch goes, I thought it dripped it in, so slow and steady, and thus more like the body would do. Vilet talks about changing it every day if you run thru a lot of E. would that up the dose? I don’t know anything about them.

I used the 8mg Estraderm patch and went through it in a day and a half. I ended up adding the second day with OO/E! I like the steadiness, but not the stickiness. LOL

As far as the cream all day, I am afraid of getting it on my young son. Maybe I should do the cream vaginally?

Darn it, wont do the red font now. Oh well, if it is the PCCA cream I would not put it in my vagina, too many chemicals remember.

Madeleen

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.