Re: Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

[Guest guest]

What amazes me about people is this - time after time after time (as

x goes to infinity on relationships), people tend to fall for the

jerks (doesn't matter if someone is AS, NT, or otherwise). That's

why I don't worry about myself. After a couple of weeks ago, I

realized that I am in a very strong/prime position right now. I am

so glad that whatever happened then didn't turn out at all. I'll

just let all the other guys make their mistakes. Then, it'll be my

time. It will have been worth the wait. Something very spectacular

awaits me (and whoever).

> > : Asking me what diagnosis I will have next week. What

> > " disease " ? Very blind for someone with such intelligence (just my

opinion),

> >

> > Jennie: Yes this is shortsighted. If the things you have

described him

> > doing in various e-mails are an accurate representation of his

actions

> > then he either needs a diagnosis (which would give him a learning

curve)

> > or he's just being a jerk. In which case by saying he doesn't

need a

> > diagnosis he's requesting to be treated like he's a jerk who's

> > intentional in his actions.

> >

> > Of course that is my black and white opinion. LOL

> >

> > Jennie AS

>

> I agree, and add my 2-cents:

> , focus on his " jerk " -ness. On him being an a**hole. *NOT* on

> the possibility he may be AS.

>

> Absolutely *no matter* what his dx may (or may not) be - it's his

> _behavior_ that's a problem. And you cannot prima facie blame it on

AS.

>

> Consider:

> 1) Being a jerk is *not* part of the AS diagnostic criteria (DSM-

IV).

> In fact, even by casual observation, most AS would have trouble

being

> jerks if they tried. It's not part of the cognitive style.

>

> 2) MOST male jerks are *not* AS. That's just statistics; there are

far

> more non-AS than AS.

> And don't forget: In some cases the jerks been provoked into it. It

> takes Two to Tango more often than most want to believe.

>

> 3) Whether or not he gets **any** dx, his behavior will _continue_

to

> be a problem for you. A dx, alone, doesn't change anything.

>

> All your own decisions should be based on tolerance (or not) of his

> current behavior. From your description it's simply UNACCEPTABLE!

> But *he* must change it; neither you nor a shrink is going to do

it.

> Neither coercion nor your pleading is going to do it. It must come

> from *him*, inside!

>

> All that said, LOTS of husbands on/off this List ARE (or have been)

> jerks. Some have changed; at least as many more have not.

> Merely having an AS dx (and pondering it) *has* helped a few to see

> the light and change; ...but for many more it's changed nothing.

>

> - Bill, 75, AS; ...a bit of a jerk, once

>

> --

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

> http://home. earthlink. net/~wdloughman/ wdl.htm

>

[Guest guest]

Moo la la.. I enjoy talking with deep thinking types, Sandy. Talking

about the weather in general is one thing; global warming, the

environment, and the future of our planet is completely something

else. Thought Janet's idea of having an affair with yourself was

classic, Sandy. I've started doing that and let me tell ya, it's

wonderful. It's felt awesome falling in love with myself. That's

why I went to Ruby Falls by myself as a birthday present. Although I

am a deep thinker and am AS'ish in a number of ways, I crave

spontaneity whenever possible. There was nothing better this evening

than taking off towards Ruby Falls after leaving work on a Friday

late afternoon. Didn't think about going home. Thought, what the

heck, I'll wait to do laundry first thing tomorrow morning instead of

doing it tonight. Though I am proactive, the procrastinator's creed

can be fun sometimes as well. Why do something today when you can

put it off until tomorrow? Why do laundry tonight, when I can take

off to Ruby Falls and see a beautiful waterfall instead? Even an

AS'er as myself knows that life gets boring doing the same 'ol,

same 'ol all the time. Variety *is* the spice of life. Without

variety, life is boring and dull to me. If the Renaissance era had

never existed, I would never see art quite the same way as I do for

quite sometime.

> >> >

> >> > Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many

talents.

> >> The

> >> > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the

U.S.

> >> > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet.

But in

> >> > his new book, " Breaking Free, " he reveals his struggle with

> >> > dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple

> >> personality

> >> > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and watch

a

> >> sneak

> >> > peek.

> >> >

> >> > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile.

> >> Try it now.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile.

> > Try it now.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >>> >

> >>> > Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many

talents.

> >>> The

> >>> > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the

U.S.

> >>> > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet.

> >>> But in

> >>> > his new book, " Breaking Free, " he reveals his struggle with

> >>> > dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple

> >>> personality

> >>> > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and

watch a

> >>> sneak

> >>> > peek.

> >>> >

> >>> > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.

> >>> >

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

> >>> Mobile. Try it now.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >>> >

> >>> > Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many

talents.

> >>> The

> >>> > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the

U.S.

> >>> > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet.

> >>> But in

> >>> > his new book, " Breaking Free, " he reveals his struggle with

> >>> > dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple

> >>> personality

> >>> > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and

watch a

> >>> sneak

> >>> > peek.

> >>> >

> >>> > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.

> >>> >

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

> >>> Mobile. Try it now.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I concur with Janet's opinion, Sandy. No one can change anyone

else. The running joke goes like this - a Buddhist monk ordered one

with everything and gave a vendor a 20 dollar bill at a Knicks game.

The monk wanted to know why the vender wouldn't give never give him

any change. The vendor replied, " Change can only come from within " .

So it is with everyone in society - be it individuals, leaders,

countries, and so on. We can try all we want to change other people,

but it never works. Why? If we want to see change in other people's

live, that change must start with ourselves first and foremost. It's

one thing to merely tell someone, " You should do this or that. "

Even a fanatic of any kind can do that.

However, if we are to be agents of change, that change must happen

with each person. If we want to see a synergy of change that will

shine brightly, then all of us, me included, must be willing to

change individually. That's why I mentioned in an earlier post about

embracing change and not resisting it. This is why I am anti- " status

quo " . If my fellow Aspies don't want to embrace change in their

lives and remain set in their ways without considering alternative

possibilities, there's nothing at all I can do for them except have

hope one day the lightbulb goes on in their minds and they see the

light in their lives. One day the lightbulb went on in my mind, and

I've been the way I am now since then.

Counseling/therapy only works when that professional understands

things about AS. Otherwise, you're talking with a general practioner

of therapy and not someone who specializes int he area you need

help. It's like going to your general medical practitioner who

understands about medicine from a generalized but not specialized

point of view. A generalist may know a lot about something. But

that person isn't going to be specialized in any one area. That's

why it's important to find a therpaist/counselor who IS specialized

with AS issues, rather than a therapist/counselor who is a

generalized practitioner. Otherwise, you may find yourself running

around in one continuous circle and never getting anywhere, Sandy.

> >>> >

> >>> > Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many

talents.

> >>> The

> >>> > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the

U.S.

> >>> > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet.

> >>> But in

> >>> > his new book, " Breaking Free, " he reveals his struggle with

> >>> > dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple

> >>> personality

> >>> > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and

watch a

> >>> sneak

> >>> > peek.

> >>> >

> >>> > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.

> >>> >

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

> >>> Mobile. Try it now.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether something is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

Re: Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

: Asking me what diagnosis I will have next week. What "disease"? Very blind for someone with such intelligence (just my opinion),

Jennie: Yes this is shortsighted. If the things you have described him doing in various e-mails are an accurate representation of his actions then he either needs a diagnosis (which would give him a learning curve) or he's just being a jerk. In which case by saying he doesn't need a diagnosis he's requesting to be treated like he's a jerk who's intentional in his actions.

Of course that is my black and white opinion. LOL

Jennie AS

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1381 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 9:34 AM

[Guest guest]

My wife and I say that it's a REASON and NOT an excuse.

We now classify my behaviour as being either AS or A*S (that's

supposed to be an S) behavior. HOWEVER with the former I work

understanding what I did that was incorrect and find ways to work

around it. The latter I get the spray bottle. (not all the time but

yeah I get the same treatment as the cat's when their bad LOL)

This took a LOT of yelling, tears, anger and soul searching. Because

of my AS (reason) I wasn't able to grasp what she was trying to say to

me or what she needed. When things reached a breaking point from my

behaviour and outside stresses(death in the family, illness, finances)

it seems like the end. I then began to work on what was wrong. I was

using my AS as an excuse for my A*S behavior.

In my head there are two parts of this puzzle.

The first is reactionary - How do I react to situations and people. I

often get that I am condescending in my tone when speaking about

subjects when the other person is not up to speed(AS symptom).

Unfortunately in the past I chalked that up to them being ignorant or

stupid (A*S behavior). Now I work on keeping my tone and language

less caustic. (It's hard as I can't hear it until it's too late). I

ask myself what would my reaction make me feel like, how have these

words/reaction been received in the past? A brief pause before I

speak/act makes a HUGE difference.

The second is proactive - What kinds of behavior will be a positive

impact on others around me. While the obvious would be save the

environment etc. Practice simple random acts of kindness.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

Jennie, I agree that we should take responsibility for what we know, but it seems that every day I learn more about ways in which I have actually risked hurting someone, but did not have a clue. I try teally hard, but I have to acklnlwledge just how much I still have to grow. I believe that if someone is offended, it is his or her responsibility not to assume that i know it, and planned it, especially after i disclose clearly that this is not going to be true. My friends can see the effort I put in, and often have no question that I am not intentionally trying to hurt people (except for that friend I had years ago, who did not get it right, even after I told her I could not help not knowing- but back then, I did not even know the term Asperger's). Here is one I learned just a couple of weeks ago: I complimented someone, by compairing how she was now, over the way it used to be. I learned from another

person who saw and heard me that this is dangerous, because then the person being complimentred could take it wrongly, in that she did not have to realized she dod not look great all those months ago! I was told that unless there has been an active discussion containing an aclnolwedgement of what was not perfect in the past, it is safer not to refer to it when complimenting someone, lest he or she take it as an insult. Here I was, doing my best, and I did not even see this! I am so glad it was pointed out! Jennie Unknown wrote: All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether something is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?! Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it? Jennie AS .

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Leigh, In a way, this may be a good thing for you-- (I have been far too scared to even consider using my AS as an excuse to act like an @$$. On the other hand, I really do not want to be mean to another person anyway! No, I do not do this. I would really like it if people just take me at face value. (Indeed, just look at my face when I explain that it was an honest mistake: I never learned to lie with my face!) Leigh Jamgochian wrote: My wife and I say that it's a REASON and NOT an excuse.We now classify my behaviour as being either AS or A*S (that'ssupposed to be an S) behavior. HOWEVER with the former I workunderstanding what I did that was incorrect and find ways to workaround it. The latter I get the spray bottle. (not all the time butyeah I get the same treatment as the cat's when their bad LOL)This took a LOT of yelling, tears, anger and soul searching. Becauseof my AS (reason) I wasn't able to grasp what she was trying to say tome or what she needed. When things reached a breaking point from mybehaviour and outside stresses(death in the family, illness, finances)it seems like the end. I then began to work on what was wrong. I wasusing my AS as an excuse for my A*S behavior.In my head there are two parts of this puzzle.The first is reactionary - How do I react to

situations and people. Ioften get that I am condescending in my tone when speaking aboutsubjects when the other person is not up to speed(AS symptom).Unfortunately in the past I chalked that up to them being ignorant orstupid (A*S behavior). Now I work on keeping my tone and languageless caustic. (It's hard as I can't hear it until it's too late). Iask myself what would my reaction make me feel like, how have thesewords/reaction been received in the past? A brief pause before Ispeak/act makes a HUGE difference.The second is proactive - What kinds of behavior will be a positiveimpact on others around me. While the obvious would be save theenvironment etc. Practice simple random acts of kindness.Leigh

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I went for a LONG time being RIGHT... I'm very smart in my field and

grew up in a VERY structured religious household and environment.

Which made it easy to know boundaries etc. as soon as I went

'outside' my inability to deal and understand all the 'gray areas' my

problems really showed themselves and began to create a 'feedback

loop' so to speak.

For many years I simply felt defeated and to put it simply evil and

mean. While learning about AS has made me understand WHY and relieved

a bunch of guilt and overwhelming sense of helplessness. It's also

encouraged me to explore additional ways of NOT being an @$S and more

a person that works at his AS.

Leigh

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Princess

wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Leigh,

>

> In a way, this may be a good thing for you-- (I have been far too scared to

> even consider using my AS as an excuse to act like an @$$. On the other

> hand, I really do not want to be mean to another person anyway! No, I do

> not do this. I would really like it if people just take me at face value.

> (Indeed, just look at my face when I explain that it was an honest mistake:

> I never learned to lie with my face!)

>

>

>

>

> Leigh Jamgochian wrote:

>

>

>

>

> My wife and I say that it's a REASON and NOT an excuse.

>

> We now classify my behaviour as being either AS or A*S (that's

> supposed to be an S) behavior. HOWEVER with the former I work

> understanding what I did that was incorrect and find ways to work

> around it. The latter I get the spray bottle. (not all the time but

> yeah I get the same treatment as the cat's when their bad LOL)

>

> This took a LOT of yelling, tears, anger and soul searching. Because

> of my AS (reason) I wasn't able to grasp what she was trying to say to

> me or what she needed. When things reached a breaking point from my

> behaviour and outside stresses(death in the family, illness, finances)

> it seems like the end. I then began to work on what was wrong. I was

> using my AS as an excuse for my A*S behavior.

>

> In my head there are two parts of this puzzle.

>

> The first is reactionary - How do I react to situations and people. I

> often get that I am condescending in my tone when speaking about

> subjects when the other person is not up to speed(AS symptom).

> Unfortunately in the past I chalked that up to them being ignorant or

> stupid (A*S behavior). Now I work on keeping my tone and language

> less caustic. (It's hard as I can't hear it until it's too late). I

> ask myself what would my reaction make me feel like, how have these

> words/reaction been received in the past? A brief pause before I

> speak/act makes a HUGE difference.

>

> The second is proactive - What kinds of behavior will be a positive

> impact on others around me. While the obvious would be save the

> environment etc. Practice simple random acts of kindness.

>

> Leigh

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it

> now.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much!

sandy

Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] Re: Tonight on nightline- interesting

,

I fooled myself pretty well, I think: I did not fool everyone! Now, when I meet people who are a bit knowledgeable about autism, I wonder if they can tell.

<msrpsilverlycos (DOT) com> wrote:

I remember when was at the University of Georgia, and played on some really great UGa teams back in the early 80's (Vince Dooley was the coach at the time). Won the national championship one of those years (yeah I know, one of my co-workers is a diehard UGa fan). I was reading something on ESPN's on-line site and said how this one reporter thought was an excellent marketer and was just "trying to cover things up" and such. How does a person really cover up something like AS? After all, I did it for the first 40 years of my life. Eventually,

the past catches up with the present.>> Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many talents. The > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the U.S. > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet. But in > his new book, "Breaking Free," he reveals his struggle with > dissociative

identity disorder, formerly known as multiple personality > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and watch a sneak > peek. > > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.>

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jennie.

Are either of your parents AS? (I do think his Mom is.)

Sandy

Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

: Asking me what diagnosis I will have next week. What "disease"? Very blind for someone with such intelligence (just my opinion),

Jennie: Yes this is shortsighted. If the things you have described him doing in various e-mails are an accurate representation of his actions then he either needs a diagnosis (which would give him a learning curve) or he's just being a jerk. In which case by saying he doesn't need a diagnosis he's requesting to be treated like he's a jerk who's intentional in his actions.

Of course that is my black and white opinion. LOL

Jennie AS

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1381 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 9:34 AM

[Guest guest]

Thank you Leigh

Sandy

Re: Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

My wife and I say that it's a REASON and NOT an excuse.We now classify my behaviour as being either AS or A*S (that'ssupposed to be an S) behavior. HOWEVER with the former I workunderstanding what I did that was incorrect and find ways to workaround it. The latter I get the spray bottle. (not all the time butyeah I get the same treatment as the cat's when their bad LOL)This took a LOT of yelling, tears, anger and soul searching. Becauseof my AS (reason) I wasn't able to grasp what she was trying to say tome or what she needed. When things reached a breaking point from mybehaviour and outside stresses(death in the family, illness, finances)it seems like the end. I then began to work on what was wrong. I wasusing my AS as an excuse for my A*S behavior.In my head there are two parts of this puzzle.The first is reactionary - How do I react to situations and people. Ioften get that I

am condescending in my tone when speaking aboutsubjects when the other person is not up to speed(AS symptom).Unfortunately in the past I chalked that up to them being ignorant orstupid (A*S behavior). Now I work on keeping my tone and languageless caustic. (It's hard as I can't hear it until it's too late). Iask myself what would my reaction make me feel like, how have thesewords/reaction been received in the past? A brief pause before Ispeak/act makes a HUGE difference.The second is proactive - What kinds of behavior will be a positiveimpact on others around me. While the obvious would be save theenvironment etc. Practice simple random acts of kindness.Leigh

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure that what you did was wrong Jennie. About 10 years ago, a friend did something similar to me. Not about looks, but, about some of my actions. I was one of the first females in the CPA industry. I must have come across as a person waiving a banner for feminism. (Don't get me wrong. I am still a huge feminist.) But the person knew me in my younger years (20's) and saw me again in my 30's. Apparently I had changed for the better. She told me about it and described it. It floored me at the time. It made me think about how I had been. It was good for me.

Sandy

Re: Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

Jennie,

I agree that we should take responsibility for what we know, but it seems that every day I learn more about ways in which I have actually risked hurting someone, but did not have a clue. I try teally hard, but I have to acklnlwledge just how much I still have to grow. I believe that if someone is offended, it is his or her responsibility not to assume that i know it, and planned it, especially after i disclose clearly that this is not going to be true. My friends can see the effort I put in, and often have no question that I am not intentionally trying to hurt people (except for that friend I had years ago, who did not get it right, even after I told her I could not help not knowing- but back then, I did not even know the term Asperger's). Here is one I learned just a couple of weeks ago: I complimented someone, by compairing how she was now, over the way it used to be. I learned from another person who saw and

heard me that this is dangerous, because then the person being complimentred could take it wrongly, in that she did not have to realized she dod not look great all those months ago! I was told that unless there has been an active discussion containing an aclnolwedgement of what was not perfect in the past, it is safer not to refer to it when complimenting someone, lest he or she take it as an insult.

Here I was, doing my best, and I did not even see this! I am so glad it was pointed out!

Jennie Unknown <mossbtweenmetoes@ tds.net> wrote:

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether something is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

..

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Sandy,

Sharon here: I researched and begged and pleaded and threatened and

cried and researched and prayed and worked and on and on...

Bottom line--my husband was dx'd in July-August of 2001 and " the answer "

didn't matter.

It was good to know (more for him than for me). At least there was the

hope for some understanding and awareness.

Neither of those has come--I think maybe because he is more classically

autistic than we might have realized and he doesn't seem to be able to

learn much of anything socially/relationally or vocationally.

Now I am dx'd AS, and not super-happy right now. At least I know why I

married him ( he is just like my dad in many ways, but less emotionally

present...with my dx I am realizing that my dad was AS too.)

I realize that in my marriage that my dxh is not able to be self-aware

about even simple things like " I have a headache, so I should take some

tylenol. "

Of course, with that lack of self-awareness/body awareness there are

communication problems - duh!

But, the research is helpful, and so is this group. Knowing the truth is

better than wandering in the dark.

Sharon-- AS, confused and tired but hanging in

> >> >

> >> > Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many

talents.

> >> The

> >> > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the

U.S.

> >> > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet. But

in

> >> > his new book, " Breaking Free, " he reveals his struggle with

> >> > dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple

> >> personality

> >> > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and watch a

> >> sneak

> >> > peek.

> >> >

> >> > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.

> >> Try it now.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Daneka! Your message to Sandy was like an oasis in the desert tonight...

Daneka wrote:

>Hi Sandy,>Sounds like you're dealing with a lot right now. I just want to encourage you that you are in the right place, and I do believe >things will improve.>I agree with both Bill and Janet. Much of what is hurting you isn't the direct result of AS, but maybe he has developed patterns >of behavior that are hurtful to you. Maybe that behavior has gone unchecked or checked in such a way that he doesn't "get it." >Attacking a person with AS is like hitting your mute button. With my own husband, who is capable of being a jerk at times, I >usually have to wait for the moment to pass and then tell him that I felt embarrassed and disrespected when he did x. Because >he loves me, he doesn't want to hurt me, and he responds.

>He might defend himself or dismiss it, but he, like many with Aspergers, will think about it even though he doesn't appear to be >thinking about it. He might come back to me about it a week later and apologize. I also can pretty much depend on his not >doing that again.

My husband definitely defends himself...instantaneouly with no regard for what I am trying to get across. It's all about his "standing and worth" or "what he did wrong". As to coming back later...never happens. He won't even remember after 48-72 hours, thus insight never comes either. And, sadly he is so repetitive that he will always do the same thing again. If only I could get rich making odds on predicting his behaviors.

>Ironically, I think his Aspergers makes him less of a jerk because there is a sincerity and often a gentleness ONCE he >understands what happened. It's a long process and so working on one battle at a time is helpful. It is sooo much better than >how we used to handle things and more effective.

I agree that AS makes my husband less of an outward, overt jerk. But, isn't constantly controlling and manipulating your family environment through acts of comission, or passively through avoidant behaviors, jerky?

I am truly glad for you both that things are better...

>I also urge you to follow Janet's advise. I don't think she was telling you to stop your efforts to understand about Aspergers. I >think she was just urging you to divide your energies and save enough for yourself. >Many here have said how life improved once they assumed responsibility for their own happiness, in particular, nurture >friendships and build companionship, attend events you're interested in with friends when he isn't interested. There's a certain >amount of solitude that many Aspergians find comfortable but that can be very isolating and depressing for an NT. Do >something good for yourself.>Daneka, who sees herself in every one of your posts

Good counsel here... assuming responsibility for my own happiness will be true liberation from the cycle of discouragement and isolation. I am an extrovert or at least learned at a young age to imitate one, so I seem to need activities and social environments (even as an AS, I see this in my life).

I think the tough part for me is that I wanted to share the good things that I do with my significant partner in life. When I have to confront the reality that he doesn't even get what I am talking about or doing with him (muttering to himself, trying to comfort himself at all times), it really hurts.

Sharon--recently dx'd AS trying to appear and live an NT life

[Guest guest]

Sandy,

I am so grateful for this discussion and your honesty. i am struggling

with lack of physical intimacy and companionship too.

I respect your journey and appreciate you being here on this list.

sharon

> >

> > Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many talents.

> The

> > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the U.S.

> > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet. But in

> > his new book, " Breaking Free, " he reveals his struggle with

> > dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple

> personality

> > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and watch a

> sneak

> > peek.

> >

> > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try

it now.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try

it now.

>

[Guest guest]

Sandy...

Close about the Smokies.. I am probably two hours southwest of there

(the Smokies are a good 45 minutes east of Knoxville, TN). I'm in

the southern Appalachian foothill region, where it's known to be up

to 3,500-4,000 feet high around in parts. Ah yes the waterfalls are

beautiful. Can't really beat anything like a waterfall. Glad to see

that he feels better than he has recently.

> > >

> > > Retired NFL running back Herschel is a man of many

> talents.

> > The

> > > 46-year-old won a Heisman trophy, competed in bobsled for the

> U.S.

> > > Olympic team, and even performed with the Fort Worth Ballet.

But

> in

> > > his new book, " Breaking Free, " he reveals his struggle with

> > > dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple

> > personality

> > > disorder. ABC's Bob Woodruff reports. Read more here and watch

a

> > sneak

> > > peek.

> > >

> > > n.b. this is a link, but it did not stay, when I pasted it.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile.

> Try it now.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>>Thanks Jennie.

Are either of your parents AS? (I do think his Mom is.)

Sandy<<

Sandy,

Well the jury is out on that. Since they will never go to a med doctor let alone a psychologist we will never really know. My sister in law (who's son and husband[my brother] are AS) really believes my father is AS. I don't see it so much. I really see it in my mother.

My dad is totally introverted, doesn't shower, expects his wife to do everything, literally doesn't talk. But as the kid who is closest to him... I think this is a choice of his. At the same time he builds things by picturing them in his mind first and then building them. Much like Temple Grandin describes in her book 'Thinking in Pictures'. He has a very good sense of humor (in my opinion!). He can draw pictures of car parts well enough that all my mom has to do is bring his picture in to the parts store and they go pick it out. Good drawing technical things, not good with people or animals. Very good sense of balance. He often would make a tower on the side of the tub in the bathroom consisting of toilet paper rolls, shampoo bottles, etc The tower often reached over halfway to the ceiling. He also does this at the kitchen table. LOL

My mother on the other hand has a lot of the obsessive paranoid stuff going on. Maybe a bit too much to be AS, maybe more OC? I don't know. She is very fear oriented. Afraid of driving or riding in the city, afraid to fly, afraid to (at this point in time) to leave home, afraid of elevators. She is paranoid, totally convinced the government is out to get her, stock piles vitamins (because said gov't is poisoning our food supply and removing the vitamins and minerals (on purpose mind you). Most of the paranoid stuff has increased a lot in the last 10 years. She is extremely black and white in her views and no amount of facts will change her mind most of the time. She is rigid and rule oriented. When (in the past) they have gone on a trip she has the whole thing planned out, where they will stay at night, where they will need gas, etc. She keeps a book with lots of lists. She packs the trunk of the car precisely, knows exactly where everything goes. She is very into her animals and has put them in higher importance than her kids.

Both are voracious readers with strong memory skills.

So..........................? Either or both you choose! LOL

Jennie -AS grew up in a slightly (perspective!) crazy household.

Re: Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether something is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I agree with you 100%. The only thing I would add is that the ladies who post here are often saying that their spouses do not do what you do. When someone points out to them (the AS person) that they are hurtful, they don't listen and change as you do. At that point, in my mind, it becomes a choice.

Jennie

Re: Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

Jennie,

I agree that we should take responsibility for what we know, but it seems that every day I learn more about ways in which I have actually risked hurting someone, but did not have a clue. I try teally hard, but I have to acklnlwledge just how much I still have to grow. I believe that if someone is offended, it is his or her responsibility not to assume that i know it, and planned it, especially after i disclose clearly that this is not going to be true. My friends can see the effort I put in, and often have no question that I am not intentionally trying to hurt people (except for that friend I had years ago, who did not get it right, even after I told her I could not help not knowing- but back then, I did not even know the term Asperger's). Here is one I learned just a couple of weeks ago: I complimented someone, by compairing how she was now, over the way it used to be. I learned from another person who saw and heard me that this is dangerous, because then the person being complimentred could take it wrongly, in that she did not have to realized she dod not look great all those months ago! I was told that unless there has been an active discussion containing an aclnolwedgement of what was not perfect in the past, it is safer not to refer to it when complimenting someone, lest he or she take it as an insult.

Here I was, doing my best, and I did not even see this! I am so glad it was pointed out!

Jennie Unknown <mossbtweenmetoestds (DOT) net> wrote:

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether somethng is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

..

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[Guest guest]

Jennie

What an environment to grow up in. I am laughing (not at the pain that it had to cause you) but at the absolute ridiculousness that one household could have so much dysfunction.

Sandy

Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether something is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Ahh

Jennie. Believe me. I have changed. I wouldn't be able to STILL be here if I hadn't changed. I live alone in the same house. I take care of my needs and try to take car of my desires. (One had been having a loving fulfiling deep connected comitted relationship with lots of fun physical and emotional intimacy. That's the one I can't really do by myself.)

And I have tried to act with kindness, and have learned certain ways of coping that became a second hand without even knowing about AS.

My husband doesn't take responsibility for his "bad" actions. If I talk about them and tell him how they hurt me, ask him if he would change these, he ignores them, points at me and somehow it has all become my fault.

He cannot see the hypercriticalness of his actions. He cannot see the rejection he shows me. He cannot understand that if he goes somewhere he should tell me he is leaving, where he might be going, so that I don't worry. Or maybe he does.

Sandy

Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

Jennie,

I agree that we should take responsibility for what we know, but it seems that every day I learn more about ways in which I have actually risked hurting someone, but did not have a clue. I try teally hard, but I have to acklnlwledge just how much I still have to grow. I believe that if someone is offended, it is his or her responsibility not to assume that i know it, and planned it, especially after i disclose clearly that this is not going to be true. My friends can see the effort I put in, and often have no question that I am not intentionally trying to hurt people (except for that friend I had years ago, who did not get it right, even after I told her I could not help not knowing- but back then, I did not even know the term Asperger's). Here is one I learned just a couple of weeks ago: I complimented someone, by compairing how she was now, over the way it used to be. I learned from another person who saw and

heard me that this is dangerous, because then the person being complimentred could take it wrongly, in that she did not have to realized she dod not look great all those months ago! I was told that unless there has been an active discussion containing an aclnolwedgement of what was not perfect in the past, it is safer not to refer to it when complimenting someone, lest he or she take it as an insult.

Here I was, doing my best, and I did not even see this! I am so glad it was pointed out!

Jennie Unknown <mossbtweenmetoes@ tds.net> wrote:

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether somethng is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

..

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[Guest guest]

,My mother had a term for what you inadvertently did. She called it a "left-handed compliment." Some people are very artful at doing this, and they just seem not to be able to say something complimentary without giving a dig at the same time. They seem to view life as a "one-up-man-ship" competition and just can't give someone an outright compliment. It's very sad. You're nothing like that, quite the opposite, but I think people are generally wary of those folks, so unless the recipient knows you very well, they might draw the wrong conclusion about you and your intention.Good for you that you have a friend who cares enough to kindly point that out! We all could use such a friend.My husband is like you in that once he figures out that his conduct might hurt someone, he's not likely to do it again,

although getting him to believe that someone's feelings could be hurt when in the same situation his wouldn't be is the tough part. Earlier there was a thread "trust the NT," and I wish my husband would defer to me on these issues as easily as you did your friend.Daneka

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether somethng is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

.

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[Guest guest]

Sandy,

I think you misunderstood. I was saying that many of the AS husbands apparently make no or little effort to change. Not you. :-)

See was saying that she agreed with me about AS people taking responsibility and then she added a 'but....' so I was responding to her 'but....' statement. That I agreed with her but I didn't think it necessarily applied to AS people who were not making an effort to change. She said when someone mentions something she did was hurtful she immediately does all she can to deal with that. I do the same. I don't see many of your husbands having this motivation. Therefore I see much of their behavior as a choice.

Jennie

Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] Can a person with some degree of knowlege see a person who has AS? Not likely.

Jennie,

I agree that we should take responsibility for what we know, but it seems that every day I learn more about ways in which I have actually risked hurting someone, but did not have a clue. I try teally hard, but I have to acklnlwledge just how much I still have to grow. I believe that if someone is offended, it is his or her responsibility not to assume that i know it, and planned it, especially after i disclose clearly that this is not going to be true. My friends can see the effort I put in, and often have no question that I am not intentionally trying to hurt people (except for that friend I had years ago, who did not get it right, even after I told her I could not help not knowing- but back then, I did not even know the term Asperger's). Here is one I learned just a couple of weeks ago: I complimented someone, by compairing how she was now, over the way it used to be. I learned from another person who saw and heard me that this is dangerous, because then the person being complimentred could take it wrongly, in that she did not have to realized she dod not look great all those months ago! I was told that unless there has been an active discussion containing an aclnolwedgement of what was not perfect in the past, it is safer not to refer to it when complimenting someone, lest he or she take it as an insult.

Here I was, doing my best, and I did not even see this! I am so glad it was pointed out!

Jennie Unknown <mossbtweenmetoes@ tds.net> wrote:

All I can say is I'm diagnosed AS and yes I get 'stuck' but that does not and can NOT ever excuse me from rotten, bad, or hurtful behaviors. I have a brain. All I have to do is THINK and I know whether somethng is hurtful to others. Maybe I wouldn't be aware of a lack of expression on my part being hurtful or something like that but yelling at someone, or doing some of the other things you've described? All I know is that I would know what I was doing. Just because someone is choosing what is most comfortable for them does not mean they aren't wrong. It doesn't matter if I'm AS or not, some behaviors are obviously hurtful. Perhaps a valid question would be, does it bother, hurt, or annoy him when people do to him what he does to you? If so, then.....?!

Oh and btw criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. If done with the right attitude, based in reality, and coming from someone who's business it is.... then what's wrong with it?

Jennie AS

..

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No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1381 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 9:34 AM

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[Guest guest]

>>Jennie

What an environment to grow up in. I am laughing (not at the pain that it had to cause you) but at the absolute ridiculousness that one household could have so much dysfunction.

Sandy<<

Sandy,

You can throw in being a part of a super isolated, very small, rules and regulations, 'everyone else is going to hell' religion as well. LOL Growing up we were not allowed to have a TV, not allowed to cut our hair, wear make up, jewelry, had to wear dresses to church (hypocritically boys could wear t-shirts and jeans), not allowed to listen to popular music (not even Christian based), etc and so forth. You get the picture!

What's interesting is in many ways growing up in that household has made me much more open to other ways of being. I think it's my way of reacting against the way they are. Though I am at this point in my life ok with them being the way they are. In the past I had a lot of anger and pain over it but have moved on and it helps a lot that they live halfway across the country. They are much more lovable from a couple thousand miles away! LOL

But I guess it just goes to show that AS people CAN overcome great odds. And I did it by myself, with help from God. I dealt with most of that before I even knew about AS and the rest shortly after. I find a few things pop up now and again but mostly I am on with my life. This is one of the reasons I really struggle with hearing the 'can't' word in referring to people with AS. Because I DID. But then I had God so I that evened the odds for me.

Jennie AS