Re: Forgiveness How To

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Debbie.

Yes, forgiving in this sense has nothing to do with the traditional

" forgive and forget " concept that all of us non-BPDs have had crammed

down our throats by non-understanding outsiders, until we want to puke,

as you say. I definitely haven't forgotten mother. Quite the

contrary. I think about her endlessly, every single hour of every

single day. The difference is, I think differently about her now. I'm

dispassionate about the ugly stuff, because it no longer evokes angry

feelings. And.......... a lot of pleasant memories are surfacing now,

not just the bad stuff. Also, I can mention mother in normal

conversations with others now, such as, " my mother used to have a little

dog like yours too " or " when my mother used to live there, she loved to

visit blah blah to " , stuff like that. The anger and uncontrollable

impulse to tell cry on everyone's shoulder is gone.

It's been an evolving process that's still evolving.

Somehow, we manage to believe what we tell ourselves. If we tell

ourselves over and over that we're bad, we'll eventually believe it. If

we tell ourselves we're a failure, we'll eventually believe it. If we

tell ourselves that we've been right all along, we'll eventually believe

it. I think maybe that's the power of repeating certain words and

phrases over and over every day, like when I said rote prayers as a

Catholic growing up. We believe what we say (think), and what we say

(think) become our beliefs.

Who knows. I'm just musing........ don't mind me.

Best wishes,

Carol

Debbie wrote:

> Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue

> so much I could puke on the next person who tells me

> I have to " forgive and forget " .

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Debbie.

Yes, forgiving in this sense has nothing to do with the traditional

" forgive and forget " concept that all of us non-BPDs have had crammed

down our throats by non-understanding outsiders, until we want to puke,

as you say. I definitely haven't forgotten mother. Quite the

contrary. I think about her endlessly, every single hour of every

single day. The difference is, I think differently about her now. I'm

dispassionate about the ugly stuff, because it no longer evokes angry

feelings. And.......... a lot of pleasant memories are surfacing now,

not just the bad stuff. Also, I can mention mother in normal

conversations with others now, such as, " my mother used to have a little

dog like yours too " or " when my mother used to live there, she loved to

visit blah blah to " , stuff like that. The anger and uncontrollable

impulse to tell cry on everyone's shoulder is gone.

It's been an evolving process that's still evolving.

Somehow, we manage to believe what we tell ourselves. If we tell

ourselves over and over that we're bad, we'll eventually believe it. If

we tell ourselves we're a failure, we'll eventually believe it. If we

tell ourselves that we've been right all along, we'll eventually believe

it. I think maybe that's the power of repeating certain words and

phrases over and over every day, like when I said rote prayers as a

Catholic growing up. We believe what we say (think), and what we say

(think) become our beliefs.

Who knows. I'm just musing........ don't mind me.

Best wishes,

Carol

Debbie wrote:

> Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue

> so much I could puke on the next person who tells me

> I have to " forgive and forget " .

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Debbie.

Yes, forgiving in this sense has nothing to do with the traditional

" forgive and forget " concept that all of us non-BPDs have had crammed

down our throats by non-understanding outsiders, until we want to puke,

as you say. I definitely haven't forgotten mother. Quite the

contrary. I think about her endlessly, every single hour of every

single day. The difference is, I think differently about her now. I'm

dispassionate about the ugly stuff, because it no longer evokes angry

feelings. And.......... a lot of pleasant memories are surfacing now,

not just the bad stuff. Also, I can mention mother in normal

conversations with others now, such as, " my mother used to have a little

dog like yours too " or " when my mother used to live there, she loved to

visit blah blah to " , stuff like that. The anger and uncontrollable

impulse to tell cry on everyone's shoulder is gone.

It's been an evolving process that's still evolving.

Somehow, we manage to believe what we tell ourselves. If we tell

ourselves over and over that we're bad, we'll eventually believe it. If

we tell ourselves we're a failure, we'll eventually believe it. If we

tell ourselves that we've been right all along, we'll eventually believe

it. I think maybe that's the power of repeating certain words and

phrases over and over every day, like when I said rote prayers as a

Catholic growing up. We believe what we say (think), and what we say

(think) become our beliefs.

Who knows. I'm just musing........ don't mind me.

Best wishes,

Carol

Debbie wrote:

> Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue

> so much I could puke on the next person who tells me

> I have to " forgive and forget " .

[Guest guest]

That is so funny!ROFL!

Kathleen

-- In ModOasis@y..., Cyndy <cmilhollan@y...> wrote:

>

> Smack them upside the head and then insist that they forgive you.

> Cyndy

>

> sweepea1215@a... wrote: Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

with this issue so much I could puke

> on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

>

> Debbie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is so funny!ROFL!

Kathleen

-- In ModOasis@y..., Cyndy <cmilhollan@y...> wrote:

>

> Smack them upside the head and then insist that they forgive you.

> Cyndy

>

> sweepea1215@a... wrote: Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

with this issue so much I could puke

> on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

>

> Debbie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is so funny!ROFL!

Kathleen

-- In ModOasis@y..., Cyndy <cmilhollan@y...> wrote:

>

> Smack them upside the head and then insist that they forgive you.

> Cyndy

>

> sweepea1215@a... wrote: Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

with this issue so much I could puke

> on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

>

> Debbie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

to me forgiveness to nada is walking away from the past and not

feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust.

Wish them no harm but leave them alone.

Kathleen

Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

> with this issue so much I could puke

> > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

> >

> > Debbie

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

to me forgiveness to nada is walking away from the past and not

feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust.

Wish them no harm but leave them alone.

Kathleen

Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

> with this issue so much I could puke

> > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

> >

> > Debbie

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I believe in positive self talk. My father was a believer in it but

he never stuck to it.

I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would

show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there

were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc.

Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the

mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he

was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself.

I never thought about that until now.He is still moving in a

competent way down the river of life.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

I believe in positive self talk. My father was a believer in it but

he never stuck to it.

I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would

show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there

were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc.

Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the

mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he

was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself.

I never thought about that until now.He is still moving in a

competent way down the river of life.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Wow! Thanks for sharing that, Kathleen!

Best wishes,

Carol

Kathleen wrote:

> I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would

> show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there

> were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc.

> Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the

> mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he

> was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself.

[Guest guest]

Wow! Thanks for sharing that, Kathleen!

Best wishes,

Carol

Kathleen wrote:

> I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would

> show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there

> were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc.

> Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the

> mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he

> was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself.

[Guest guest]

Wow! Thanks for sharing that, Kathleen!

Best wishes,

Carol

Kathleen wrote:

> I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would

> show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there

> were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc.

> Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the

> mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he

> was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself.

[Guest guest]

You can't break their illusions, but you don't have to participate either.

Cyndy

thanksforthisday wrote: to me forgiveness to nada

is walking away from the past and not

feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust.

Wish them no harm but leave them alone.

Kathleen

Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

> with this issue so much I could puke

> > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

> >

> > Debbie

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You can't break their illusions, but you don't have to participate either.

Cyndy

thanksforthisday wrote: to me forgiveness to nada

is walking away from the past and not

feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust.

Wish them no harm but leave them alone.

Kathleen

Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

> with this issue so much I could puke

> > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

> >

> > Debbie

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You can't break their illusions, but you don't have to participate either.

Cyndy

thanksforthisday wrote: to me forgiveness to nada

is walking away from the past and not

feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust.

Wish them no harm but leave them alone.

Kathleen

Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling

> with this issue so much I could puke

> > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " .

> >

> > Debbie

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Speak softly and carry a big stick!

sweepea1215@... wrote: Cyndy,

I am off to visit my Aunties (sisters of Megatron) and smack them all

silly!!! Heh-heh-heh.

Thanks for the giggle!

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Carol, thanks for sharing your forgiveness journey. Kudos to you for

staying with the pain as you worked toward your freedom. I have often

used the " act as if " mode until something became more genuine. In fact,

being an agoraphobic-wanna-be myself, I use it a lot. I keep putting

myself " out there, " carving out a rich life for myself. I learned a

powerful lesson from my mom's story. We create our own traps, and I

refuse to live " small. "

Best,

Kathy

Carol M wrote:

> It's been a lengthy process, much like exercising.

>

> By repeating those words, day in and day out, they finally

> sank into my consciousness. The process of daily

> forgiveness forced me to accept what I wouldn't otherwise, that mother

> had been wrong all this time.

[Guest guest]

Carol, thanks for sharing your forgiveness journey. Kudos to you for

staying with the pain as you worked toward your freedom. I have often

used the " act as if " mode until something became more genuine. In fact,

being an agoraphobic-wanna-be myself, I use it a lot. I keep putting

myself " out there, " carving out a rich life for myself. I learned a

powerful lesson from my mom's story. We create our own traps, and I

refuse to live " small. "

Best,

Kathy

Carol M wrote:

> It's been a lengthy process, much like exercising.

>

> By repeating those words, day in and day out, they finally

> sank into my consciousness. The process of daily

> forgiveness forced me to accept what I wouldn't otherwise, that mother

> had been wrong all this time.

[Guest guest]

hildegard6 wrote:

> Trying to heal myself, setting my boundaries and finding people who

> are good to me, that is what matters to me.

This is so healthy, Hildegard. When I look back over all of the

relationships I've had, both with women and men, I have often been

abused. I swear there is a blinking neon sign over my head that says,

" schmuck. " I am too nice. But I know that my niceness is just an old

habit, a trap. I just don't know how to be something else yet. At least

I don't do it well yet.

I often take an " observer " view with myself.... sort of step outside

myself and watch how I interact with others. I am just oh so nice and

accomodating. I told my therapist that I have a raging bitch (is it okay

for me to use that word here?) inside of me. He says not to think of her

as the bitch, but she really is. In recent years I have just distanced

and isolated, rather than be used. So almost all of the friends I've

ever had are now gone, because I didn't know healthy boundaries, and I

attract users. Eventually I get resentful and end the relationships. I

don't want to become bitter. I would like to take the strengths of my

kind, compassionate self, and the strengths of the bitch, and combine

them to make a new, compassionate yet assertive self with healthy

boundaries. Maybe I need to find a role model. Someone that I really

admire and can keep in focus to remind me of my goal.

Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your recovering

self after?

Kathy

p.s. Hi Edith! It is good to " read " you again. )

[Guest guest]

>

> Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your

recovering

> self after?

>

> Kathy

I saw the end of " Fried Green Tomatoes " a couple of days

ago...now I want to see the whole picture. It looked like the Kathy

Bates character was a role model type.

I want to read the Graham book " Personal History " she

was an emotionally abandoned child and her husband

committed suicide and she took on the Washington Post.

For purging and moving on with compassion there is 's

Ashes. People's reaction to 's Ashes are interesting.

Some people don't like it at all. I liked it a lot.

There is " Steel Magnolias " and the union one with Sally Field., I

like Sarandon in Little Women as well as " Jo " .

The surface story of the Judd's is interesting...looks like they

" re-invented " themselves late in life.

I like the concept of " living large " I used to do that, am and trying

to get back in the saddle. When I do if ostensibly for my kids, I

feel so happy. We've done impromptu trips to NYC and Boston

and Montreal " just because " . I tell myself its for the kids, but it is

really for me and we all love it.

I like reading about " strong women " and " steel magnolias " .

anyone have suggestions?

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

>

> Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your

recovering

> self after?

>

> Kathy

I saw the end of " Fried Green Tomatoes " a couple of days

ago...now I want to see the whole picture. It looked like the Kathy

Bates character was a role model type.

I want to read the Graham book " Personal History " she

was an emotionally abandoned child and her husband

committed suicide and she took on the Washington Post.

For purging and moving on with compassion there is 's

Ashes. People's reaction to 's Ashes are interesting.

Some people don't like it at all. I liked it a lot.

There is " Steel Magnolias " and the union one with Sally Field., I

like Sarandon in Little Women as well as " Jo " .

The surface story of the Judd's is interesting...looks like they

" re-invented " themselves late in life.

I like the concept of " living large " I used to do that, am and trying

to get back in the saddle. When I do if ostensibly for my kids, I

feel so happy. We've done impromptu trips to NYC and Boston

and Montreal " just because " . I tell myself its for the kids, but it is

really for me and we all love it.

I like reading about " strong women " and " steel magnolias " .

anyone have suggestions?

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

>

> Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your

recovering

> self after?

>

> Kathy

I saw the end of " Fried Green Tomatoes " a couple of days

ago...now I want to see the whole picture. It looked like the Kathy

Bates character was a role model type.

I want to read the Graham book " Personal History " she

was an emotionally abandoned child and her husband

committed suicide and she took on the Washington Post.

For purging and moving on with compassion there is 's

Ashes. People's reaction to 's Ashes are interesting.

Some people don't like it at all. I liked it a lot.

There is " Steel Magnolias " and the union one with Sally Field., I

like Sarandon in Little Women as well as " Jo " .

The surface story of the Judd's is interesting...looks like they

" re-invented " themselves late in life.

I like the concept of " living large " I used to do that, am and trying

to get back in the saddle. When I do if ostensibly for my kids, I

feel so happy. We've done impromptu trips to NYC and Boston

and Montreal " just because " . I tell myself its for the kids, but it is

really for me and we all love it.

I like reading about " strong women " and " steel magnolias " .

anyone have suggestions?

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

--- thanksforthisday

wrote:

> I like reading about " strong women " and " steel

> magnolias " .

>

> anyone have suggestions?

If you like mysteries, I love Sue Grafton's series

about a female detective named Kinsey Millhone. She

absolutely doesn't take any shit and has a great sense

of humor.

I tend to admire people that don't take shit and don't

care what people think about them like Cher and

Roseanne, and people who speak for women like Gloria

Steinham.

Holly

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- thanksforthisday

wrote:

> I like reading about " strong women " and " steel

> magnolias " .

>

> anyone have suggestions?

If you like mysteries, I love Sue Grafton's series

about a female detective named Kinsey Millhone. She

absolutely doesn't take any shit and has a great sense

of humor.

I tend to admire people that don't take shit and don't

care what people think about them like Cher and

Roseanne, and people who speak for women like Gloria

Steinham.

Holly

__________________________________________________