Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Thanks, Debbie. Yes, forgiving in this sense has nothing to do with the traditional " forgive and forget " concept that all of us non-BPDs have had crammed down our throats by non-understanding outsiders, until we want to puke, as you say. I definitely haven't forgotten mother. Quite the contrary. I think about her endlessly, every single hour of every single day. The difference is, I think differently about her now. I'm dispassionate about the ugly stuff, because it no longer evokes angry feelings. And.......... a lot of pleasant memories are surfacing now, not just the bad stuff. Also, I can mention mother in normal conversations with others now, such as, " my mother used to have a little dog like yours too " or " when my mother used to live there, she loved to visit blah blah to " , stuff like that. The anger and uncontrollable impulse to tell cry on everyone's shoulder is gone. It's been an evolving process that's still evolving. Somehow, we manage to believe what we tell ourselves. If we tell ourselves over and over that we're bad, we'll eventually believe it. If we tell ourselves we're a failure, we'll eventually believe it. If we tell ourselves that we've been right all along, we'll eventually believe it. I think maybe that's the power of repeating certain words and phrases over and over every day, like when I said rote prayers as a Catholic growing up. We believe what we say (think), and what we say (think) become our beliefs. Who knows. I'm just musing........ don't mind me. Best wishes, Carol Debbie wrote: > Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue > so much I could puke on the next person who tells me > I have to " forgive and forget " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Thanks, Debbie. Yes, forgiving in this sense has nothing to do with the traditional " forgive and forget " concept that all of us non-BPDs have had crammed down our throats by non-understanding outsiders, until we want to puke, as you say. I definitely haven't forgotten mother. Quite the contrary. I think about her endlessly, every single hour of every single day. The difference is, I think differently about her now. I'm dispassionate about the ugly stuff, because it no longer evokes angry feelings. And.......... a lot of pleasant memories are surfacing now, not just the bad stuff. Also, I can mention mother in normal conversations with others now, such as, " my mother used to have a little dog like yours too " or " when my mother used to live there, she loved to visit blah blah to " , stuff like that. The anger and uncontrollable impulse to tell cry on everyone's shoulder is gone. It's been an evolving process that's still evolving. Somehow, we manage to believe what we tell ourselves. If we tell ourselves over and over that we're bad, we'll eventually believe it. If we tell ourselves we're a failure, we'll eventually believe it. If we tell ourselves that we've been right all along, we'll eventually believe it. I think maybe that's the power of repeating certain words and phrases over and over every day, like when I said rote prayers as a Catholic growing up. We believe what we say (think), and what we say (think) become our beliefs. Who knows. I'm just musing........ don't mind me. Best wishes, Carol Debbie wrote: > Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue > so much I could puke on the next person who tells me > I have to " forgive and forget " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Thanks, Debbie. Yes, forgiving in this sense has nothing to do with the traditional " forgive and forget " concept that all of us non-BPDs have had crammed down our throats by non-understanding outsiders, until we want to puke, as you say. I definitely haven't forgotten mother. Quite the contrary. I think about her endlessly, every single hour of every single day. The difference is, I think differently about her now. I'm dispassionate about the ugly stuff, because it no longer evokes angry feelings. And.......... a lot of pleasant memories are surfacing now, not just the bad stuff. Also, I can mention mother in normal conversations with others now, such as, " my mother used to have a little dog like yours too " or " when my mother used to live there, she loved to visit blah blah to " , stuff like that. The anger and uncontrollable impulse to tell cry on everyone's shoulder is gone. It's been an evolving process that's still evolving. Somehow, we manage to believe what we tell ourselves. If we tell ourselves over and over that we're bad, we'll eventually believe it. If we tell ourselves we're a failure, we'll eventually believe it. If we tell ourselves that we've been right all along, we'll eventually believe it. I think maybe that's the power of repeating certain words and phrases over and over every day, like when I said rote prayers as a Catholic growing up. We believe what we say (think), and what we say (think) become our beliefs. Who knows. I'm just musing........ don't mind me. Best wishes, Carol Debbie wrote: > Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue > so much I could puke on the next person who tells me > I have to " forgive and forget " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 That is so funny!ROFL! Kathleen -- In ModOasis@y..., Cyndy <cmilhollan@y...> wrote: > > Smack them upside the head and then insist that they forgive you. > Cyndy > > sweepea1215@a... wrote: Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue so much I could puke > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > Debbie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 That is so funny!ROFL! Kathleen -- In ModOasis@y..., Cyndy <cmilhollan@y...> wrote: > > Smack them upside the head and then insist that they forgive you. > Cyndy > > sweepea1215@a... wrote: Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue so much I could puke > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > Debbie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 That is so funny!ROFL! Kathleen -- In ModOasis@y..., Cyndy <cmilhollan@y...> wrote: > > Smack them upside the head and then insist that they forgive you. > Cyndy > > sweepea1215@a... wrote: Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling with this issue so much I could puke > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > Debbie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 to me forgiveness to nada is walking away from the past and not feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust. Wish them no harm but leave them alone. Kathleen Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling > with this issue so much I could puke > > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > > > Debbie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 to me forgiveness to nada is walking away from the past and not feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust. Wish them no harm but leave them alone. Kathleen Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling > with this issue so much I could puke > > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > > > Debbie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 I believe in positive self talk. My father was a believer in it but he never stuck to it. I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc. Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself. I never thought about that until now.He is still moving in a competent way down the river of life. Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 I believe in positive self talk. My father was a believer in it but he never stuck to it. I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc. Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself. I never thought about that until now.He is still moving in a competent way down the river of life. Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Wow! Thanks for sharing that, Kathleen! Best wishes, Carol Kathleen wrote: > I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would > show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there > were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc. > Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the > mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he > was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Wow! Thanks for sharing that, Kathleen! Best wishes, Carol Kathleen wrote: > I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would > show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there > were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc. > Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the > mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he > was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Wow! Thanks for sharing that, Kathleen! Best wishes, Carol Kathleen wrote: > I had a friend from Germany who seemed to have golden luck. He would > show up in the most impossible situations, finding a job when there > were no jobs for foreign students, and landing scholarships etc. > Anyway, one day I asked him his secret and he said he talked in the > mirror to himself every day, telling himself what a good person he > was, how loveable, how competent, he would smile at himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 You can't break their illusions, but you don't have to participate either. Cyndy thanksforthisday wrote: to me forgiveness to nada is walking away from the past and not feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust. Wish them no harm but leave them alone. Kathleen Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling > with this issue so much I could puke > > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > > > Debbie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 You can't break their illusions, but you don't have to participate either. Cyndy thanksforthisday wrote: to me forgiveness to nada is walking away from the past and not feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust. Wish them no harm but leave them alone. Kathleen Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling > with this issue so much I could puke > > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > > > Debbie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 You can't break their illusions, but you don't have to participate either. Cyndy thanksforthisday wrote: to me forgiveness to nada is walking away from the past and not feeling guilty about leaving toxic people in the dust. Wish them no harm but leave them alone. Kathleen Excellent idea Carol...I am struggling > with this issue so much I could puke > > on the next person who tells me I have to " forgive and forget " . > > > > Debbie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Speak softly and carry a big stick! sweepea1215@... wrote: Cyndy, I am off to visit my Aunties (sisters of Megatron) and smack them all silly!!! Heh-heh-heh. Thanks for the giggle! Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Carol, thanks for sharing your forgiveness journey. Kudos to you for staying with the pain as you worked toward your freedom. I have often used the " act as if " mode until something became more genuine. In fact, being an agoraphobic-wanna-be myself, I use it a lot. I keep putting myself " out there, " carving out a rich life for myself. I learned a powerful lesson from my mom's story. We create our own traps, and I refuse to live " small. " Best, Kathy Carol M wrote: > It's been a lengthy process, much like exercising. > > By repeating those words, day in and day out, they finally > sank into my consciousness. The process of daily > forgiveness forced me to accept what I wouldn't otherwise, that mother > had been wrong all this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Carol, thanks for sharing your forgiveness journey. Kudos to you for staying with the pain as you worked toward your freedom. I have often used the " act as if " mode until something became more genuine. In fact, being an agoraphobic-wanna-be myself, I use it a lot. I keep putting myself " out there, " carving out a rich life for myself. I learned a powerful lesson from my mom's story. We create our own traps, and I refuse to live " small. " Best, Kathy Carol M wrote: > It's been a lengthy process, much like exercising. > > By repeating those words, day in and day out, they finally > sank into my consciousness. The process of daily > forgiveness forced me to accept what I wouldn't otherwise, that mother > had been wrong all this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 hildegard6 wrote: > Trying to heal myself, setting my boundaries and finding people who > are good to me, that is what matters to me. This is so healthy, Hildegard. When I look back over all of the relationships I've had, both with women and men, I have often been abused. I swear there is a blinking neon sign over my head that says, " schmuck. " I am too nice. But I know that my niceness is just an old habit, a trap. I just don't know how to be something else yet. At least I don't do it well yet. I often take an " observer " view with myself.... sort of step outside myself and watch how I interact with others. I am just oh so nice and accomodating. I told my therapist that I have a raging bitch (is it okay for me to use that word here?) inside of me. He says not to think of her as the bitch, but she really is. In recent years I have just distanced and isolated, rather than be used. So almost all of the friends I've ever had are now gone, because I didn't know healthy boundaries, and I attract users. Eventually I get resentful and end the relationships. I don't want to become bitter. I would like to take the strengths of my kind, compassionate self, and the strengths of the bitch, and combine them to make a new, compassionate yet assertive self with healthy boundaries. Maybe I need to find a role model. Someone that I really admire and can keep in focus to remind me of my goal. Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your recovering self after? Kathy p.s. Hi Edith! It is good to " read " you again. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 > > Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your recovering > self after? > > Kathy I saw the end of " Fried Green Tomatoes " a couple of days ago...now I want to see the whole picture. It looked like the Kathy Bates character was a role model type. I want to read the Graham book " Personal History " she was an emotionally abandoned child and her husband committed suicide and she took on the Washington Post. For purging and moving on with compassion there is 's Ashes. People's reaction to 's Ashes are interesting. Some people don't like it at all. I liked it a lot. There is " Steel Magnolias " and the union one with Sally Field., I like Sarandon in Little Women as well as " Jo " . The surface story of the Judd's is interesting...looks like they " re-invented " themselves late in life. I like the concept of " living large " I used to do that, am and trying to get back in the saddle. When I do if ostensibly for my kids, I feel so happy. We've done impromptu trips to NYC and Boston and Montreal " just because " . I tell myself its for the kids, but it is really for me and we all love it. I like reading about " strong women " and " steel magnolias " . anyone have suggestions? Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 > > Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your recovering > self after? > > Kathy I saw the end of " Fried Green Tomatoes " a couple of days ago...now I want to see the whole picture. It looked like the Kathy Bates character was a role model type. I want to read the Graham book " Personal History " she was an emotionally abandoned child and her husband committed suicide and she took on the Washington Post. For purging and moving on with compassion there is 's Ashes. People's reaction to 's Ashes are interesting. Some people don't like it at all. I liked it a lot. There is " Steel Magnolias " and the union one with Sally Field., I like Sarandon in Little Women as well as " Jo " . The surface story of the Judd's is interesting...looks like they " re-invented " themselves late in life. I like the concept of " living large " I used to do that, am and trying to get back in the saddle. When I do if ostensibly for my kids, I feel so happy. We've done impromptu trips to NYC and Boston and Montreal " just because " . I tell myself its for the kids, but it is really for me and we all love it. I like reading about " strong women " and " steel magnolias " . anyone have suggestions? Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 > > Anyone here have any role models that you try to pattern your recovering > self after? > > Kathy I saw the end of " Fried Green Tomatoes " a couple of days ago...now I want to see the whole picture. It looked like the Kathy Bates character was a role model type. I want to read the Graham book " Personal History " she was an emotionally abandoned child and her husband committed suicide and she took on the Washington Post. For purging and moving on with compassion there is 's Ashes. People's reaction to 's Ashes are interesting. Some people don't like it at all. I liked it a lot. There is " Steel Magnolias " and the union one with Sally Field., I like Sarandon in Little Women as well as " Jo " . The surface story of the Judd's is interesting...looks like they " re-invented " themselves late in life. I like the concept of " living large " I used to do that, am and trying to get back in the saddle. When I do if ostensibly for my kids, I feel so happy. We've done impromptu trips to NYC and Boston and Montreal " just because " . I tell myself its for the kids, but it is really for me and we all love it. I like reading about " strong women " and " steel magnolias " . anyone have suggestions? Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 --- thanksforthisday wrote: > I like reading about " strong women " and " steel > magnolias " . > > anyone have suggestions? If you like mysteries, I love Sue Grafton's series about a female detective named Kinsey Millhone. She absolutely doesn't take any shit and has a great sense of humor. I tend to admire people that don't take shit and don't care what people think about them like Cher and Roseanne, and people who speak for women like Gloria Steinham. Holly __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 --- thanksforthisday wrote: > I like reading about " strong women " and " steel > magnolias " . > > anyone have suggestions? If you like mysteries, I love Sue Grafton's series about a female detective named Kinsey Millhone. She absolutely doesn't take any shit and has a great sense of humor. I tend to admire people that don't take shit and don't care what people think about them like Cher and Roseanne, and people who speak for women like Gloria Steinham. Holly __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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