Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 So true!! I used to envy those who knew what they wanted to be when they grew up. I liked many things but not any one thing more than another. I now see that my situation came from my programming. Since finding out about BPD, I have been able to see my own worth and develope my own interests. I've gone back to school. I'm now 41 and I'm taking college course for Medical billing and claims. Better late than never!! :0) Re: In common It seems that most of us are really afraid of " making " people angry; we're afraid of anger in general. And many of us are afraid of being angry ourselves. Also, I think many of us struggle with figuring out who we are -- what are MY wants, needs, desires, dreams, hopes and wishes? We were taught to ignore ourselves for so long, that it can be hard to figure that stuff out. I frequently struggle with trying to determine what's " best for me " . There also seems to be a strong tendency towards perfectionism -- most likely born from the feeling that we were never " good enough " ... maybe if we tried harder, and were " better " (i.e., " perfect " ), our nada/fada would love us. Anon --- RandiBPD@... wrote: > I was asked today by a reporter, " What do people with BP > mothers have in > common? " I said we all wished our father (or non disorder > parent) had > protected un. Any others? > > I think it's hard to trust. > > Randi Kreger > List owner, Welcome To Oz Lists > Coauthor, Stop Walking on Eggshells > Love and Loathing, Hope for Parents > www.BPDCentral.com __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Hi SueAnn, I had a girlfriend growing up whose mother I absolutely loved. She was a smoker and drinker - a party gal. But she *loved* me and I loved her. My nada hated her with a passion and constantly tried to break the bond between us. This lady was a fairly messed up woman who had a messed up life, she was married and divorced twice (like my nada,) and had a drinking/drug problem to boot. She gave me so much - it didn't matter what she did - who she was in her heart meant so much more. I believe she was blind to what she was doing to her own kids but could see clearly what my nada was doing to me - she really reached out to make me feel wanted and worthy. She'll always hold a special place in my heart no matter what nada has/had to say about her. She gave me more in those few short years I'd known her than my nada gave me in my lifetime. I lived over there too. I lived everywhere but in my own home. --- SueAnn * wrote: > I did not have a father present in my life, never > even seen a picture of him. Another way that nada > controlled me. Like others I too wished that someone > else would have helped. In addition, my nada always > threaten to put me in a foster home where I didn't > know what they would do to bad little girls because > I was always wanting to go live with someone else. I > was approximately 8 yrs old when someone attempted > to help and approached my nada about me living with > them because they took care of me most of the time > anyways cause nada was always gone. My nada refused > and said if I was to go and live any where else it > would be with someone that I didn't know and who > knew what they would do to me. So I agree also with > the fact that one of my #1 fantasies growing up was > to have a different family. > > In addition to agree with trust being hard, I > believe understanding and knowing what unconditional > love really means or is might be something else > individuals with BP mothers have in common. I know > for me that is a difficult one cause growing up > either I didn't know it existed or either I thought > that love was only conditional based on what it was > that I could do for others. > > In common > > I was asked today by a reporter, " What do people > with BP mothers have in > common? " I said we all wished our father (or non > disorder parent) had > protected un. Any others? > > I think it's hard to trust. > > Randi Kreger > List owner, Welcome To Oz Lists > Coauthor, Stop Walking on Eggshells > Love and Loathing, Hope for Parents > www.BPDCentral.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Hi SueAnn, I had a girlfriend growing up whose mother I absolutely loved. She was a smoker and drinker - a party gal. But she *loved* me and I loved her. My nada hated her with a passion and constantly tried to break the bond between us. This lady was a fairly messed up woman who had a messed up life, she was married and divorced twice (like my nada,) and had a drinking/drug problem to boot. She gave me so much - it didn't matter what she did - who she was in her heart meant so much more. I believe she was blind to what she was doing to her own kids but could see clearly what my nada was doing to me - she really reached out to make me feel wanted and worthy. She'll always hold a special place in my heart no matter what nada has/had to say about her. She gave me more in those few short years I'd known her than my nada gave me in my lifetime. I lived over there too. I lived everywhere but in my own home. --- SueAnn * wrote: > I did not have a father present in my life, never > even seen a picture of him. Another way that nada > controlled me. Like others I too wished that someone > else would have helped. In addition, my nada always > threaten to put me in a foster home where I didn't > know what they would do to bad little girls because > I was always wanting to go live with someone else. I > was approximately 8 yrs old when someone attempted > to help and approached my nada about me living with > them because they took care of me most of the time > anyways cause nada was always gone. My nada refused > and said if I was to go and live any where else it > would be with someone that I didn't know and who > knew what they would do to me. So I agree also with > the fact that one of my #1 fantasies growing up was > to have a different family. > > In addition to agree with trust being hard, I > believe understanding and knowing what unconditional > love really means or is might be something else > individuals with BP mothers have in common. I know > for me that is a difficult one cause growing up > either I didn't know it existed or either I thought > that love was only conditional based on what it was > that I could do for others. > > In common > > I was asked today by a reporter, " What do people > with BP mothers have in > common? " I said we all wished our father (or non > disorder parent) had > protected un. Any others? > > I think it's hard to trust. > > Randi Kreger > List owner, Welcome To Oz Lists > Coauthor, Stop Walking on Eggshells > Love and Loathing, Hope for Parents > www.BPDCentral.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 For me Anon said it best - All I would add is that now I'm really struggling with boundary issues because of it all. Ilene <<< It seems that most of us are really afraid of " making " people angry; we're afraid of anger in general. And many of us are afraid of being angry ourselves. Also, I think many of us struggle with figuring out who we are -- what are MY wants, needs, desires, dreams, hopes and wishes? We were taught to ignore ourselves for so long, that it can be hard to figure that stuff out. I frequently struggle with trying to determine what's " best for me " . There also seems to be a strong tendency towards perfectionism -- most likely born from the feeling that we were never " good enough " ... maybe if we tried harder, and were " better " (i.e., " perfect " ), our nada/fada would love us.>>>> Anon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 For me Anon said it best - All I would add is that now I'm really struggling with boundary issues because of it all. Ilene <<< It seems that most of us are really afraid of " making " people angry; we're afraid of anger in general. And many of us are afraid of being angry ourselves. Also, I think many of us struggle with figuring out who we are -- what are MY wants, needs, desires, dreams, hopes and wishes? We were taught to ignore ourselves for so long, that it can be hard to figure that stuff out. I frequently struggle with trying to determine what's " best for me " . There also seems to be a strong tendency towards perfectionism -- most likely born from the feeling that we were never " good enough " ... maybe if we tried harder, and were " better " (i.e., " perfect " ), our nada/fada would love us.>>>> Anon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Sorry to be posting again - but I have to agree about struggling with the boudary issues. Boundaries define who we are - yet I'm struggling with what they are as to what really defines me... After years of being in abusive relationships it's difficult to figure out if the boundaries I have are because of the ones I built up from being in the abusive relationships - that would possibly equal *hyper-boundary* making - ie rigid walls I've built up that need to come down... and then figuring out what needs to stay up because they're *mine*. I sometimes feel that in some instances I have become as rigid as my ex... I *know* it's not me - I know I'm spontaneous but I find myself being this hyper-wary person these days. (Which I suppose, leads me back down the path to my trust issues.) Cyndie --- ilene@... wrote: > > > For me Anon said it best - > All I would add is that now I'm really struggling > with boundary issues because > of it all. > Ilene > > <<< > It seems that most of us are really afraid of > " making " people > angry; we're afraid of anger in general. And many > of us are > afraid of being angry ourselves. > > Also, I think many of us struggle with figuring out > who we are > -- what are MY wants, needs, desires, dreams, hopes > and wishes? > We were taught to ignore ourselves for so long, that > it can be > hard to figure that stuff out. I frequently > struggle with > trying to determine what's " best for me " . > > There also seems to be a strong tendency towards > perfectionism > -- most likely born from the feeling that we were > never " good > enough " ... maybe if we tried harder, and were > " better " (i.e., > " perfect " ), our nada/fada would love us.>>>> > > Anon > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Sorry to be posting again - but I have to agree about struggling with the boudary issues. Boundaries define who we are - yet I'm struggling with what they are as to what really defines me... After years of being in abusive relationships it's difficult to figure out if the boundaries I have are because of the ones I built up from being in the abusive relationships - that would possibly equal *hyper-boundary* making - ie rigid walls I've built up that need to come down... and then figuring out what needs to stay up because they're *mine*. I sometimes feel that in some instances I have become as rigid as my ex... I *know* it's not me - I know I'm spontaneous but I find myself being this hyper-wary person these days. (Which I suppose, leads me back down the path to my trust issues.) Cyndie --- ilene@... wrote: > > > For me Anon said it best - > All I would add is that now I'm really struggling > with boundary issues because > of it all. > Ilene > > <<< > It seems that most of us are really afraid of > " making " people > angry; we're afraid of anger in general. And many > of us are > afraid of being angry ourselves. > > Also, I think many of us struggle with figuring out > who we are > -- what are MY wants, needs, desires, dreams, hopes > and wishes? > We were taught to ignore ourselves for so long, that > it can be > hard to figure that stuff out. I frequently > struggle with > trying to determine what's " best for me " . > > There also seems to be a strong tendency towards > perfectionism > -- most likely born from the feeling that we were > never " good > enough " ... maybe if we tried harder, and were > " better " (i.e., > " perfect " ), our nada/fada would love us.>>>> > > Anon > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 This has been a really interesting topic. I 100% agree with boundary issues. I use to have none and in my healing process I think I swung way past to the other side. My boundaries are VERY clear now, almost in an unyielding way (there's that control thing again <g>). I have no friends whatsoever. I know that is about me, about my age, and my circumstances. But I don't know how to even start. All of my friends from my past are severely dysfunctional (the only people I could identify with and not feel judged by) but they weren't in a place to make changes in their life when I was, so I severed those ties too. I was told constantly as a child that " I didn't know how to bond " . I sometimes wonder if its true. The only thing that has been mentioned so far that doesn't fit for me is fear of anger. Anger doesn't intimidate me at all. But my upbringing involved emotional, physical, sexual, drug/alcohol abuse and was around alot of rage. The only emotion of my own that I was really in touch with and expressed at all is anger. And now when I am around someone that is starting to flip out and have almost no response to it at all. It kind of feels like " there is NOTHING you can say or do that is going to even phase me, been there done that, and you aren't even in the ballpark buddy " . Probably not a healthy response either, but anger doesnt scare me. Intimacy... thats a whole nother game though. Intimacy scares me. Being touched freaks me out. Having my personal space violated upsets me immensly. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 This has been a really interesting topic. I 100% agree with boundary issues. I use to have none and in my healing process I think I swung way past to the other side. My boundaries are VERY clear now, almost in an unyielding way (there's that control thing again <g>). I have no friends whatsoever. I know that is about me, about my age, and my circumstances. But I don't know how to even start. All of my friends from my past are severely dysfunctional (the only people I could identify with and not feel judged by) but they weren't in a place to make changes in their life when I was, so I severed those ties too. I was told constantly as a child that " I didn't know how to bond " . I sometimes wonder if its true. The only thing that has been mentioned so far that doesn't fit for me is fear of anger. Anger doesn't intimidate me at all. But my upbringing involved emotional, physical, sexual, drug/alcohol abuse and was around alot of rage. The only emotion of my own that I was really in touch with and expressed at all is anger. And now when I am around someone that is starting to flip out and have almost no response to it at all. It kind of feels like " there is NOTHING you can say or do that is going to even phase me, been there done that, and you aren't even in the ballpark buddy " . Probably not a healthy response either, but anger doesnt scare me. Intimacy... thats a whole nother game though. Intimacy scares me. Being touched freaks me out. Having my personal space violated upsets me immensly. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 This has been a really interesting topic. I 100% agree with boundary issues. I use to have none and in my healing process I think I swung way past to the other side. My boundaries are VERY clear now, almost in an unyielding way (there's that control thing again <g>). I have no friends whatsoever. I know that is about me, about my age, and my circumstances. But I don't know how to even start. All of my friends from my past are severely dysfunctional (the only people I could identify with and not feel judged by) but they weren't in a place to make changes in their life when I was, so I severed those ties too. I was told constantly as a child that " I didn't know how to bond " . I sometimes wonder if its true. The only thing that has been mentioned so far that doesn't fit for me is fear of anger. Anger doesn't intimidate me at all. But my upbringing involved emotional, physical, sexual, drug/alcohol abuse and was around alot of rage. The only emotion of my own that I was really in touch with and expressed at all is anger. And now when I am around someone that is starting to flip out and have almost no response to it at all. It kind of feels like " there is NOTHING you can say or do that is going to even phase me, been there done that, and you aren't even in the ballpark buddy " . Probably not a healthy response either, but anger doesnt scare me. Intimacy... thats a whole nother game though. Intimacy scares me. Being touched freaks me out. Having my personal space violated upsets me immensly. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 RandiBPD@... wrote: > I was asked today by a reporter, " What do people with BP > mothers have in common? " Hi All, Edith here. Hmmmm, I'd say that one thing that people with BP mothers have in common, and for a long time, is *confusion*. People who join these Oasis lists usually stay invisible for awhile. Its like they've lost their voice. But then, as they read the posts, the lights start coming on and they start wondering about who the real person was behind the mask -- ie, the mask she (ie, " mother " ) wore for others but that she dropped while behind the closed doors of Home Sweet Home. And we learn that she had a tiny and/or fragmented Self and she was really an actress *playing* the 'mother' role. A mother is supposed to be one of the two most important people in a kid's life. Kids from " normal " families have a mother and a father that they're supposed to identify with and pattern themselves after. But our " mother " was different. Yup, there's lots of confusion and it takes awhile for KOs to figure out what happened. BP mothers lack empathy. And, they're emotionally unstable. We KOs (Kids Of BPDs) learned early in life to walk on eggshells. We weren't mirrored appropriately by her as babies, thus we didn't bond with her like we should have. We learned to not trust her cuz she lied to us and manipulated us to her advantage, while trashing our self-esteem. We learn here that there's a name for what she did. Its called " emotional abuse " . And, as we post and get validated, the veil of confusion slowly begins to lift. It seems that there is no " pure " BPD, even though our nadas seem to have attended the same Nada School. Each nada (make-believe mother, 'notta' real mother) is uniquely different and each KO is uniquely different but there are commonalities. Its like that saying that goes if you lie down with dogs you can catch their fleas. Well, on self-examination, we KOs learn that we did pick up some " fleas " (ie, BPD traits) along the way. We learned early that we didn't like her and that we didn't want to be like her. Here, as adults, we learn that everyone is responsible for their own behavior and that if SHE can't/won't change, then we KOs can. We learn we have to set boundaries and that we need to have a working knowledge of ADD, APD, DID, FOG, HPD, MPD, NPD, OCD, and PTSD. And, the KOs on one of the advanced Oasis lists even came up with a new one this week -- ie, " Responsibility Deficient Disorder " (RDD). So, one of the things that KOs have in common is that we were twisted out of shape early in life and now, as adults, we have to go back, pick up the threads and re-write the scripts in our head -- while our feelings ever so slowly unnumb. The recovery path is traveled one tiny step at a time. Its almost 6 years now for me on the recovery path and I'm still here helping lift the veil of confusion, pointing the way and passing out flea powder. For me, life is goooooooooooood, now. Hugs, Edith - One of the WTO list facilitators/moderators. __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 RandiBPD@... wrote: > I was asked today by a reporter, " What do people with BP > mothers have in common? " Hi All, Edith here. Hmmmm, I'd say that one thing that people with BP mothers have in common, and for a long time, is *confusion*. People who join these Oasis lists usually stay invisible for awhile. Its like they've lost their voice. But then, as they read the posts, the lights start coming on and they start wondering about who the real person was behind the mask -- ie, the mask she (ie, " mother " ) wore for others but that she dropped while behind the closed doors of Home Sweet Home. And we learn that she had a tiny and/or fragmented Self and she was really an actress *playing* the 'mother' role. A mother is supposed to be one of the two most important people in a kid's life. Kids from " normal " families have a mother and a father that they're supposed to identify with and pattern themselves after. But our " mother " was different. Yup, there's lots of confusion and it takes awhile for KOs to figure out what happened. BP mothers lack empathy. And, they're emotionally unstable. We KOs (Kids Of BPDs) learned early in life to walk on eggshells. We weren't mirrored appropriately by her as babies, thus we didn't bond with her like we should have. We learned to not trust her cuz she lied to us and manipulated us to her advantage, while trashing our self-esteem. We learn here that there's a name for what she did. Its called " emotional abuse " . And, as we post and get validated, the veil of confusion slowly begins to lift. It seems that there is no " pure " BPD, even though our nadas seem to have attended the same Nada School. Each nada (make-believe mother, 'notta' real mother) is uniquely different and each KO is uniquely different but there are commonalities. Its like that saying that goes if you lie down with dogs you can catch their fleas. Well, on self-examination, we KOs learn that we did pick up some " fleas " (ie, BPD traits) along the way. We learned early that we didn't like her and that we didn't want to be like her. Here, as adults, we learn that everyone is responsible for their own behavior and that if SHE can't/won't change, then we KOs can. We learn we have to set boundaries and that we need to have a working knowledge of ADD, APD, DID, FOG, HPD, MPD, NPD, OCD, and PTSD. And, the KOs on one of the advanced Oasis lists even came up with a new one this week -- ie, " Responsibility Deficient Disorder " (RDD). So, one of the things that KOs have in common is that we were twisted out of shape early in life and now, as adults, we have to go back, pick up the threads and re-write the scripts in our head -- while our feelings ever so slowly unnumb. The recovery path is traveled one tiny step at a time. Its almost 6 years now for me on the recovery path and I'm still here helping lift the veil of confusion, pointing the way and passing out flea powder. For me, life is goooooooooooood, now. Hugs, Edith - One of the WTO list facilitators/moderators. __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 RandiBPD@... wrote: > I was asked today by a reporter, " What do people with BP > mothers have in common? " Hi All, Edith here. Hmmmm, I'd say that one thing that people with BP mothers have in common, and for a long time, is *confusion*. People who join these Oasis lists usually stay invisible for awhile. Its like they've lost their voice. But then, as they read the posts, the lights start coming on and they start wondering about who the real person was behind the mask -- ie, the mask she (ie, " mother " ) wore for others but that she dropped while behind the closed doors of Home Sweet Home. And we learn that she had a tiny and/or fragmented Self and she was really an actress *playing* the 'mother' role. A mother is supposed to be one of the two most important people in a kid's life. Kids from " normal " families have a mother and a father that they're supposed to identify with and pattern themselves after. But our " mother " was different. Yup, there's lots of confusion and it takes awhile for KOs to figure out what happened. BP mothers lack empathy. And, they're emotionally unstable. We KOs (Kids Of BPDs) learned early in life to walk on eggshells. We weren't mirrored appropriately by her as babies, thus we didn't bond with her like we should have. We learned to not trust her cuz she lied to us and manipulated us to her advantage, while trashing our self-esteem. We learn here that there's a name for what she did. Its called " emotional abuse " . And, as we post and get validated, the veil of confusion slowly begins to lift. It seems that there is no " pure " BPD, even though our nadas seem to have attended the same Nada School. Each nada (make-believe mother, 'notta' real mother) is uniquely different and each KO is uniquely different but there are commonalities. Its like that saying that goes if you lie down with dogs you can catch their fleas. Well, on self-examination, we KOs learn that we did pick up some " fleas " (ie, BPD traits) along the way. We learned early that we didn't like her and that we didn't want to be like her. Here, as adults, we learn that everyone is responsible for their own behavior and that if SHE can't/won't change, then we KOs can. We learn we have to set boundaries and that we need to have a working knowledge of ADD, APD, DID, FOG, HPD, MPD, NPD, OCD, and PTSD. And, the KOs on one of the advanced Oasis lists even came up with a new one this week -- ie, " Responsibility Deficient Disorder " (RDD). So, one of the things that KOs have in common is that we were twisted out of shape early in life and now, as adults, we have to go back, pick up the threads and re-write the scripts in our head -- while our feelings ever so slowly unnumb. The recovery path is traveled one tiny step at a time. Its almost 6 years now for me on the recovery path and I'm still here helping lift the veil of confusion, pointing the way and passing out flea powder. For me, life is goooooooooooood, now. Hugs, Edith - One of the WTO list facilitators/moderators. __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 definitely confusion. When I finally had my first baby I had no idea how to be a mother bec. all I could remember of childhood was pretty bad. I followed my landlady who was a very good mother, and watched my mother in law in action and read books and sat with other mothers. I chose the hippie approach of letting the child become who she was. I also was exhausted by the idea of trying to corral a personality. In my family the babies became problems at around 3 when they began to assert themselves. That was when the hitting would start. I was never encourage to develop my gifts, never validated by my mother, until today. And yet she tries to freeload off of all my benefits, including the love of my kids. One of the things that made me cut ties with her was she had begun controlling my girls and guilting them. My girls were not used to this, and had no framework for this, and so it made them mad and stay away from her. I learned early on that to express yourself was to be a target for humiliation and rage. Becoming an attractive teenager made the evil uncles take sudden interest and then you were treated as a valued object. The character who most reminds me of my mother is the Evil Queen in Snow White. My mother was exceedingly vain and she was always thin even after she had a kid (there were 8 of us). She always bragged about how trim she was, and here I am with 10 pounds left per kid (I have 6). When she came for her visit, I could not bring myself to put on makeup and dress up. It was as though I was going to do something to please her. Yes, confusion, is a main thing. I felt ashamed to be 44 and having things spiral out of control because I finally could not deal with it. I think the 9/11 attacks made it impossible to be fake anymore. My sister died a year ago, and then after 9/11 and all the nada stuff that was swirling, I was so emotionally exhausted trying to maintain a calm demeanor, that I would fall asleep in a chair in the middle of the day. The minute she left my energy came back. One of the things that is so clear to me right now is that I do not regret her leaving, even if the scene that sent her packing was not an " approved " thing. I woke up in the middle of the night knowing she was leaving in a few hours and knew that she was expecting me to show up at her door and grovel. I went back to sleep and when I woke up she was gone. I've been married 17 years. The first 4 years of our marriage we were truly on our own in MA. The next 8 years were with some extended family with us, lots of BPD scenes with nada and father. We've been in our current home for 4 years. Of this time I have had only 1 year without nada in my space. Since I've been disowned now by the general family, it feels scary but I know it is better. I am so glad to have her gone. Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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