Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Reg, I am not sure if your comments are directed at me but just in case I would like to clarify my feelings on this. I do welcome and support your idea of having a vegan macrobiotic site. I recommended join along with other teachers, many of my clients and other people I meet. This is mainly because I think you run a great group and I like your personality and approach. Macrobiotics is in my opinion the best community to join for anyone eating a vegan diet as it is so rich in vegan foods and has such a long history of working with these foods and finding ways to create good health out of natural mostly vegan ingredients. At the same time I think we have to be honest and accept the reality is that in its entirety macrobiotics is not a vegan or vegetarian movement now and never has been. Who know what the future will bring! Perhaps you will seduce us all! There are people within the whole movement who choose to eat a vegan diet, which is wonderful, but from my experience tend to be in the minority. Therefore I do find I am itching to write something if claims are made on behalf of any macrobiotic teachers or the whole movement that simply are not true. There is nothing wrong with having a big movement like macrobiotics with lots of different groups within it as long as we all respect each others choices and more than that be supportive of them. Just as you would like people to be supportive of your choices there may be other people in this group who would like us all to be supportive of their choices even if this mean his or her eating of something that is not part of our particular interpretation. I have witnessed too many movements fall apart because of petty differences and intolerance. Shiatsu acupuncture and even macrobiotics has suffered from our human limitation when it comes to acceptance of other views. Macrobiotics was split for a while between Ohsawa and Kushi followers and even though I found it hard to understand at the time looking back now it seems even more ridiculous. My desire would be for us all to be able to live out our individual interpretation of macrobiotics but resist the impulse to use macrobiotics to try and impose our views on other members when it come to what we should or should not eat. I am more than open to discussing macrobiotics, deconstructing its philosophy, looking at the foods, reading about new research and offering any help I can from my experience.....and help new people avoid some of the mistake I and others have made in the past. All the best, Simon You couldn't be more gracious! I thought this was beautifully written. Much better than I would have said that's for sure. Em, I'm with you. I do find it annoying and frustrating sometimes when people seem to forget that this group was made as a safe haven for vegans. As I state on the home page you need not be vegan but hey let's remember to be respectfull. I had a dear friend drop from the group b/c she was sick of hearing people discussing the consumption of animal products. Maybe I ought to say something again??????????????????????????? Peace, Reggie > > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > be the case. > > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > life. > > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > Let everything you do be done in love. > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > > > > __________________________________________________________ ______________ > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Reg, I am not sure if your comments are directed at me but just in case I would like to clarify my feelings on this. I do welcome and support your idea of having a vegan macrobiotic site. I recommended join along with other teachers, many of my clients and other people I meet. This is mainly because I think you run a great group and I like your personality and approach. Macrobiotics is in my opinion the best community to join for anyone eating a vegan diet as it is so rich in vegan foods and has such a long history of working with these foods and finding ways to create good health out of natural mostly vegan ingredients. At the same time I think we have to be honest and accept the reality is that in its entirety macrobiotics is not a vegan or vegetarian movement now and never has been. Who know what the future will bring! Perhaps you will seduce us all! There are people within the whole movement who choose to eat a vegan diet, which is wonderful, but from my experience tend to be in the minority. Therefore I do find I am itching to write something if claims are made on behalf of any macrobiotic teachers or the whole movement that simply are not true. There is nothing wrong with having a big movement like macrobiotics with lots of different groups within it as long as we all respect each others choices and more than that be supportive of them. Just as you would like people to be supportive of your choices there may be other people in this group who would like us all to be supportive of their choices even if this mean his or her eating of something that is not part of our particular interpretation. I have witnessed too many movements fall apart because of petty differences and intolerance. Shiatsu acupuncture and even macrobiotics has suffered from our human limitation when it comes to acceptance of other views. Macrobiotics was split for a while between Ohsawa and Kushi followers and even though I found it hard to understand at the time looking back now it seems even more ridiculous. My desire would be for us all to be able to live out our individual interpretation of macrobiotics but resist the impulse to use macrobiotics to try and impose our views on other members when it come to what we should or should not eat. I am more than open to discussing macrobiotics, deconstructing its philosophy, looking at the foods, reading about new research and offering any help I can from my experience.....and help new people avoid some of the mistake I and others have made in the past. All the best, Simon You couldn't be more gracious! I thought this was beautifully written. Much better than I would have said that's for sure. Em, I'm with you. I do find it annoying and frustrating sometimes when people seem to forget that this group was made as a safe haven for vegans. As I state on the home page you need not be vegan but hey let's remember to be respectfull. I had a dear friend drop from the group b/c she was sick of hearing people discussing the consumption of animal products. Maybe I ought to say something again??????????????????????????? Peace, Reggie > > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > be the case. > > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > life. > > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > Let everything you do be done in love. > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > > > > __________________________________________________________ ______________ > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Everyone Beautifully put Simon and I agree completely. I too have recommended friends and clients to this site because I believed that we should and could be open with regards to Macrobiotics and its practice. Often it is through difficulties that we learn the most. A bit of controversy here and there is a great learning tool and while we might not agree with how someone lives there is great potential to develop and broaden out own thinking. I love what you wrote Klara.Most of the problems in the world today are from a lack of understanding and a fear of difference. It is a challenge to listen to what others have to say without making judgement. There is a huge gap between principles and practice within any movement and I find it a great shame when 'the wool is pulled over someone's eyes' with regards to 'real' practice within a movement - that macrobiotic people never eat sugar or all vegans are peaceful. The ideals we choose to live by are simply that, ideals - something we move towards and align with. The beauty of it all is that we are humans and there is bags of room for error. As soon as a claim is made about anything be it a movement or something personal then its exact opposite shows up - it is the law of attraction. I know for myself when I decide to, say, be more patient, I seem to get more frustrated or as soon as I think, 'wow I haven't had peanut butter for ages', you can bet the very next thing I am tucking into is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how fantastic because there in itself is a lesson to help you break down those rigid self imposed rules and learn to accept. I understand that this is a vegan group and I know I am not in charge of it but surely a lively discussion now and again helps everyone. No-one is attacking anyone here - we are all just learning from each other and learning what works for us and what doesn't. I think there are many people who become 'closet' eaters and who may hold guilt for eating things that they think they shouldn't. This is more harmful in many ways than the food itself. I know it is a great relief for many people to understand that macrobiotics can be and is extremely flexible in its approach and that it welcomes all. One final thing about breastfeeding Reggie. I wasn't talking about women who choose not to breastfeed because of husbands or vanity or whatever. I am impressed by the strength of many women who go againest the odds and find a way to nurse but I also empathise with those who might not be as strong and who have circumstances that are extremely difficult. I don't think it is fair to judge those women. As the American Indians say, 'you cannot judge a man (woman in this case) until you have walked a 1000 miles in their shoes'. Blessings Re: calling all vegans > >Hi Reg, > >I am not sure if your comments are directed at me but just in case I would >like to clarify my feelings on this. > >I do welcome and support your idea of having a vegan macrobiotic site. I >recommended join along with other teachers, many of my clients and >other people I meet. This is mainly because I think you run a great group >and I like your personality and approach. > >Macrobiotics is in my opinion the best community to join for anyone eating a >vegan diet as it is so rich in vegan foods and has such a long history of >working with these foods and finding ways to create good health out of >natural mostly vegan ingredients. > >At the same time I think we have to be honest and accept the reality is that >in its entirety macrobiotics is not a vegan or vegetarian movement now and >never has been. Who know what the future will bring! Perhaps you will seduce >us all! There are people within the whole movement who choose to eat a vegan >diet, which is wonderful, but from my experience tend to be in the minority. >Therefore I do find I am itching to write something if claims are made on >behalf of any macrobiotic teachers or the whole movement that simply are not >true. > >There is nothing wrong with having a big movement like macrobiotics with >lots of different groups within it as long as we all respect each others >choices and more than that be supportive of them. Just as you would like >people to be supportive of your choices there may be other people in this >group who would like us all to be supportive of their choices even if this >mean his or her eating of something that is not part of our particular >interpretation. > >I have witnessed too many movements fall apart because of petty differences >and intolerance. Shiatsu acupuncture and even macrobiotics has suffered from >our human limitation when it comes to acceptance of other views. >Macrobiotics was split for a while between Ohsawa and Kushi followers and >even though I found it hard to understand at the time looking back now it >seems even more ridiculous. > >My desire would be for us all to be able to live out our individual >interpretation of macrobiotics but resist the impulse to use macrobiotics to >try and impose our views on other members when it come to what we should or >should not eat. I am more than open to discussing macrobiotics, >deconstructing its philosophy, looking at the foods, reading about new >research and offering any help I can from my experience.....and help new >people avoid some of the mistake I and others have made in the past. > >All the best, > >Simon > > > > >> >> >> >> >> You couldn't be more gracious! I thought this was beautifully >> written. Much better than I would have said that's for sure. >> Em, I'm with you. I do find it annoying and frustrating sometimes >> when people seem to forget that this group was made as a safe haven >> for vegans. As I state on the home page you need not be vegan but >> hey let's remember to be respectfull. I had a dear friend drop from >> the group b/c she was sick of hearing people discussing the >> consumption of animal products. Maybe I ought to say something >> again??????????????????????????? >> >> Peace, >> Reggie >> >> >>> > >>> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I >>> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of >>> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as >>> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the >>> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was >>> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding >>> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally >>> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding >>> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not >>> > be the case. >>> > >>> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have >>> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off >>> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. >>> > >>> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that >>> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran >>> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] >>> > >>> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by >>> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is >>> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than >>> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow >>> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. >>> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I >>> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. >>> > >>> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this >>> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an >>> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby >>> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing >>> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to >>> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the >>> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the >>> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my >>> > life. >>> > >>> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy >>> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen >>> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a >>> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but >>> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles >>> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe >>> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me >>> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the >>> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of >>> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after >>> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an >>> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. >>> > >>> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the >>> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for >>> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not >>> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em >>> > >>> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi >>> > Let everything you do be done in love. >>> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 >>> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day >>> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must >>> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> __________________________________________________________ >> ______________ >>> > The fish are biting. >>> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. >>> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php >>> > >> >> >> > > Brown Waxman www.celebrate4health.com www.bebabywise.com info@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Everyone Beautifully put Simon and I agree completely. I too have recommended friends and clients to this site because I believed that we should and could be open with regards to Macrobiotics and its practice. Often it is through difficulties that we learn the most. A bit of controversy here and there is a great learning tool and while we might not agree with how someone lives there is great potential to develop and broaden out own thinking. I love what you wrote Klara.Most of the problems in the world today are from a lack of understanding and a fear of difference. It is a challenge to listen to what others have to say without making judgement. There is a huge gap between principles and practice within any movement and I find it a great shame when 'the wool is pulled over someone's eyes' with regards to 'real' practice within a movement - that macrobiotic people never eat sugar or all vegans are peaceful. The ideals we choose to live by are simply that, ideals - something we move towards and align with. The beauty of it all is that we are humans and there is bags of room for error. As soon as a claim is made about anything be it a movement or something personal then its exact opposite shows up - it is the law of attraction. I know for myself when I decide to, say, be more patient, I seem to get more frustrated or as soon as I think, 'wow I haven't had peanut butter for ages', you can bet the very next thing I am tucking into is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how fantastic because there in itself is a lesson to help you break down those rigid self imposed rules and learn to accept. I understand that this is a vegan group and I know I am not in charge of it but surely a lively discussion now and again helps everyone. No-one is attacking anyone here - we are all just learning from each other and learning what works for us and what doesn't. I think there are many people who become 'closet' eaters and who may hold guilt for eating things that they think they shouldn't. This is more harmful in many ways than the food itself. I know it is a great relief for many people to understand that macrobiotics can be and is extremely flexible in its approach and that it welcomes all. One final thing about breastfeeding Reggie. I wasn't talking about women who choose not to breastfeed because of husbands or vanity or whatever. I am impressed by the strength of many women who go againest the odds and find a way to nurse but I also empathise with those who might not be as strong and who have circumstances that are extremely difficult. I don't think it is fair to judge those women. As the American Indians say, 'you cannot judge a man (woman in this case) until you have walked a 1000 miles in their shoes'. Blessings Re: calling all vegans > >Hi Reg, > >I am not sure if your comments are directed at me but just in case I would >like to clarify my feelings on this. > >I do welcome and support your idea of having a vegan macrobiotic site. I >recommended join along with other teachers, many of my clients and >other people I meet. This is mainly because I think you run a great group >and I like your personality and approach. > >Macrobiotics is in my opinion the best community to join for anyone eating a >vegan diet as it is so rich in vegan foods and has such a long history of >working with these foods and finding ways to create good health out of >natural mostly vegan ingredients. > >At the same time I think we have to be honest and accept the reality is that >in its entirety macrobiotics is not a vegan or vegetarian movement now and >never has been. Who know what the future will bring! Perhaps you will seduce >us all! There are people within the whole movement who choose to eat a vegan >diet, which is wonderful, but from my experience tend to be in the minority. >Therefore I do find I am itching to write something if claims are made on >behalf of any macrobiotic teachers or the whole movement that simply are not >true. > >There is nothing wrong with having a big movement like macrobiotics with >lots of different groups within it as long as we all respect each others >choices and more than that be supportive of them. Just as you would like >people to be supportive of your choices there may be other people in this >group who would like us all to be supportive of their choices even if this >mean his or her eating of something that is not part of our particular >interpretation. > >I have witnessed too many movements fall apart because of petty differences >and intolerance. Shiatsu acupuncture and even macrobiotics has suffered from >our human limitation when it comes to acceptance of other views. >Macrobiotics was split for a while between Ohsawa and Kushi followers and >even though I found it hard to understand at the time looking back now it >seems even more ridiculous. > >My desire would be for us all to be able to live out our individual >interpretation of macrobiotics but resist the impulse to use macrobiotics to >try and impose our views on other members when it come to what we should or >should not eat. I am more than open to discussing macrobiotics, >deconstructing its philosophy, looking at the foods, reading about new >research and offering any help I can from my experience.....and help new >people avoid some of the mistake I and others have made in the past. > >All the best, > >Simon > > > > >> >> >> >> >> You couldn't be more gracious! I thought this was beautifully >> written. Much better than I would have said that's for sure. >> Em, I'm with you. I do find it annoying and frustrating sometimes >> when people seem to forget that this group was made as a safe haven >> for vegans. As I state on the home page you need not be vegan but >> hey let's remember to be respectfull. I had a dear friend drop from >> the group b/c she was sick of hearing people discussing the >> consumption of animal products. Maybe I ought to say something >> again??????????????????????????? >> >> Peace, >> Reggie >> >> >>> > >>> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I >>> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of >>> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as >>> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the >>> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was >>> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding >>> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally >>> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding >>> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not >>> > be the case. >>> > >>> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have >>> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off >>> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. >>> > >>> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that >>> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran >>> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] >>> > >>> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by >>> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is >>> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than >>> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow >>> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. >>> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I >>> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. >>> > >>> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this >>> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an >>> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby >>> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing >>> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to >>> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the >>> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the >>> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my >>> > life. >>> > >>> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy >>> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen >>> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a >>> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but >>> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles >>> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe >>> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me >>> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the >>> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of >>> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after >>> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an >>> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. >>> > >>> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the >>> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for >>> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not >>> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em >>> > >>> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi >>> > Let everything you do be done in love. >>> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 >>> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day >>> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must >>> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> __________________________________________________________ >> ______________ >>> > The fish are biting. >>> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. >>> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php >>> > >> >> >> > > Brown Waxman www.celebrate4health.com www.bebabywise.com info@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Everyone Beautifully put Simon and I agree completely. I too have recommended friends and clients to this site because I believed that we should and could be open with regards to Macrobiotics and its practice. Often it is through difficulties that we learn the most. A bit of controversy here and there is a great learning tool and while we might not agree with how someone lives there is great potential to develop and broaden out own thinking. I love what you wrote Klara.Most of the problems in the world today are from a lack of understanding and a fear of difference. It is a challenge to listen to what others have to say without making judgement. There is a huge gap between principles and practice within any movement and I find it a great shame when 'the wool is pulled over someone's eyes' with regards to 'real' practice within a movement - that macrobiotic people never eat sugar or all vegans are peaceful. The ideals we choose to live by are simply that, ideals - something we move towards and align with. The beauty of it all is that we are humans and there is bags of room for error. As soon as a claim is made about anything be it a movement or something personal then its exact opposite shows up - it is the law of attraction. I know for myself when I decide to, say, be more patient, I seem to get more frustrated or as soon as I think, 'wow I haven't had peanut butter for ages', you can bet the very next thing I am tucking into is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how fantastic because there in itself is a lesson to help you break down those rigid self imposed rules and learn to accept. I understand that this is a vegan group and I know I am not in charge of it but surely a lively discussion now and again helps everyone. No-one is attacking anyone here - we are all just learning from each other and learning what works for us and what doesn't. I think there are many people who become 'closet' eaters and who may hold guilt for eating things that they think they shouldn't. This is more harmful in many ways than the food itself. I know it is a great relief for many people to understand that macrobiotics can be and is extremely flexible in its approach and that it welcomes all. One final thing about breastfeeding Reggie. I wasn't talking about women who choose not to breastfeed because of husbands or vanity or whatever. I am impressed by the strength of many women who go againest the odds and find a way to nurse but I also empathise with those who might not be as strong and who have circumstances that are extremely difficult. I don't think it is fair to judge those women. As the American Indians say, 'you cannot judge a man (woman in this case) until you have walked a 1000 miles in their shoes'. Blessings Re: calling all vegans > >Hi Reg, > >I am not sure if your comments are directed at me but just in case I would >like to clarify my feelings on this. > >I do welcome and support your idea of having a vegan macrobiotic site. I >recommended join along with other teachers, many of my clients and >other people I meet. This is mainly because I think you run a great group >and I like your personality and approach. > >Macrobiotics is in my opinion the best community to join for anyone eating a >vegan diet as it is so rich in vegan foods and has such a long history of >working with these foods and finding ways to create good health out of >natural mostly vegan ingredients. > >At the same time I think we have to be honest and accept the reality is that >in its entirety macrobiotics is not a vegan or vegetarian movement now and >never has been. Who know what the future will bring! Perhaps you will seduce >us all! There are people within the whole movement who choose to eat a vegan >diet, which is wonderful, but from my experience tend to be in the minority. >Therefore I do find I am itching to write something if claims are made on >behalf of any macrobiotic teachers or the whole movement that simply are not >true. > >There is nothing wrong with having a big movement like macrobiotics with >lots of different groups within it as long as we all respect each others >choices and more than that be supportive of them. Just as you would like >people to be supportive of your choices there may be other people in this >group who would like us all to be supportive of their choices even if this >mean his or her eating of something that is not part of our particular >interpretation. > >I have witnessed too many movements fall apart because of petty differences >and intolerance. Shiatsu acupuncture and even macrobiotics has suffered from >our human limitation when it comes to acceptance of other views. >Macrobiotics was split for a while between Ohsawa and Kushi followers and >even though I found it hard to understand at the time looking back now it >seems even more ridiculous. > >My desire would be for us all to be able to live out our individual >interpretation of macrobiotics but resist the impulse to use macrobiotics to >try and impose our views on other members when it come to what we should or >should not eat. I am more than open to discussing macrobiotics, >deconstructing its philosophy, looking at the foods, reading about new >research and offering any help I can from my experience.....and help new >people avoid some of the mistake I and others have made in the past. > >All the best, > >Simon > > > > >> >> >> >> >> You couldn't be more gracious! I thought this was beautifully >> written. Much better than I would have said that's for sure. >> Em, I'm with you. I do find it annoying and frustrating sometimes >> when people seem to forget that this group was made as a safe haven >> for vegans. As I state on the home page you need not be vegan but >> hey let's remember to be respectfull. I had a dear friend drop from >> the group b/c she was sick of hearing people discussing the >> consumption of animal products. Maybe I ought to say something >> again??????????????????????????? >> >> Peace, >> Reggie >> >> >>> > >>> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I >>> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of >>> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as >>> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the >>> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was >>> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding >>> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally >>> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding >>> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not >>> > be the case. >>> > >>> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have >>> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off >>> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. >>> > >>> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that >>> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran >>> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] >>> > >>> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by >>> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is >>> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than >>> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow >>> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. >>> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I >>> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. >>> > >>> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this >>> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an >>> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby >>> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing >>> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to >>> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the >>> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the >>> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my >>> > life. >>> > >>> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy >>> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen >>> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a >>> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but >>> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles >>> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe >>> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me >>> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the >>> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of >>> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after >>> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an >>> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. >>> > >>> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the >>> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for >>> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not >>> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em >>> > >>> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi >>> > Let everything you do be done in love. >>> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 >>> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day >>> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must >>> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> __________________________________________________________ >> ______________ >>> > The fish are biting. >>> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. >>> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php >>> > >> >> >> > > Brown Waxman www.celebrate4health.com www.bebabywise.com info@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Simon, I appreciate your post it actually wasn't directed at you but here is my response anyway since you did bring up good points. Look thru the list of macro yahoo groups are there any other that are vegan? So if vegan macros are in a minority then this group is needed. I can't help it if I'm wonderful and everyone wants to join me here and my nasty in your face approach. ???? I needed and I wanted a place to let it out and hear from others. Saying we are in the minority is a defeatist approach to our cause. Macrobiotics as a whole is a minority in the Western world should we all give it up and start eating crap? Saying we should accept is ridiculous (no offense) b/c we are not living in a bubble we are here for exactly the reason ANY group exists to find like minded people, to get what we can't find elsewhere. Society has shown how minorities flourish. Would you prefer I sit in the back of the bus? I won't do it, I will sit in the front and if someone doesn't like it they can buzz off. Heck, I had to find someone on the other side of the world that makes me happy, that I feel completes me and it's all thanks to this same tool: the internet. I realize the world eats animals, I realize that most people don't care that animals suffer so they can stuff their bellies. I realize that this is a disposible world filled with selfishness and materialists. I don't care, I want my little safe haven. Without it I fail. Not a competition just a goal in life for a strong conviction. I am not bragging just pointing out facts here. I have received so many personal emails from others in the group thanking me for having this group because I've helped them with the support they needed and couldn't get elsewhere. A few years ago one girl told me she nearly killed herself! Wow right? Well, if I've helped even ONE person, I've helped humanity and I can be happy with my decision. This is a macro group and it's a vegan macro group. I specifically say that it's open to everyone but to be respectful. If people can't be respectful they need to go elsewhere. I don't count members, I don't care how many people are here yet it's the largest group around. I only know this because someone pointed it out to me many times. Something works. If we can't be respectful here that means something is wrong in life, we can't keep our mouth shut here then we can't do it anywhere in life. As minorities we SHOULD respect a safe place. Would anyone here go hang out at an AA meeting drinking a beer saying get over it, accept the world is filled with people who drink it's legal??? NO I don't think so unless the person is a total jerk. One time I was at a kosher restaurant and asked if there were any non vegan ingredients in the soup. The owner was getting really annoyed with my questions. I pointed out to him that I would have expected as someone with a restricted diet himself he would understand and respect mine. I hope some of this makes sense to you. Thank you for being an ever present and helpful part of this group. You and all the others. Peace, Reggie > >> > > >> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > >> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > >> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > >> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > >> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > >> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > >> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > >> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > >> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > >> > be the case. > >> > > >> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > >> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > >> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > >> > > >> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > >> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > >> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > >> > > >> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > >> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > >> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > >> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > >> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > >> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > >> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > >> > > >> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > >> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > >> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > >> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > >> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > >> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > >> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > >> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > >> > life. > >> > > >> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > >> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > >> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > >> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but > >> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > >> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > >> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > >> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > >> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > >> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after > >> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > >> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > >> > > >> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > >> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > >> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > >> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > >> > > >> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > >> > Let everything you do be done in love. > >> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > >> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > >> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > >> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > >> > The fish are biting. > >> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > >> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Simon, I appreciate your post it actually wasn't directed at you but here is my response anyway since you did bring up good points. Look thru the list of macro yahoo groups are there any other that are vegan? So if vegan macros are in a minority then this group is needed. I can't help it if I'm wonderful and everyone wants to join me here and my nasty in your face approach. ???? I needed and I wanted a place to let it out and hear from others. Saying we are in the minority is a defeatist approach to our cause. Macrobiotics as a whole is a minority in the Western world should we all give it up and start eating crap? Saying we should accept is ridiculous (no offense) b/c we are not living in a bubble we are here for exactly the reason ANY group exists to find like minded people, to get what we can't find elsewhere. Society has shown how minorities flourish. Would you prefer I sit in the back of the bus? I won't do it, I will sit in the front and if someone doesn't like it they can buzz off. Heck, I had to find someone on the other side of the world that makes me happy, that I feel completes me and it's all thanks to this same tool: the internet. I realize the world eats animals, I realize that most people don't care that animals suffer so they can stuff their bellies. I realize that this is a disposible world filled with selfishness and materialists. I don't care, I want my little safe haven. Without it I fail. Not a competition just a goal in life for a strong conviction. I am not bragging just pointing out facts here. I have received so many personal emails from others in the group thanking me for having this group because I've helped them with the support they needed and couldn't get elsewhere. A few years ago one girl told me she nearly killed herself! Wow right? Well, if I've helped even ONE person, I've helped humanity and I can be happy with my decision. This is a macro group and it's a vegan macro group. I specifically say that it's open to everyone but to be respectful. If people can't be respectful they need to go elsewhere. I don't count members, I don't care how many people are here yet it's the largest group around. I only know this because someone pointed it out to me many times. Something works. If we can't be respectful here that means something is wrong in life, we can't keep our mouth shut here then we can't do it anywhere in life. As minorities we SHOULD respect a safe place. Would anyone here go hang out at an AA meeting drinking a beer saying get over it, accept the world is filled with people who drink it's legal??? NO I don't think so unless the person is a total jerk. One time I was at a kosher restaurant and asked if there were any non vegan ingredients in the soup. The owner was getting really annoyed with my questions. I pointed out to him that I would have expected as someone with a restricted diet himself he would understand and respect mine. I hope some of this makes sense to you. Thank you for being an ever present and helpful part of this group. You and all the others. Peace, Reggie > >> > > >> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > >> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > >> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > >> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > >> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > >> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > >> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > >> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > >> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > >> > be the case. > >> > > >> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > >> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > >> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > >> > > >> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > >> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > >> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > >> > > >> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > >> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > >> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > >> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > >> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > >> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > >> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > >> > > >> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > >> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > >> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > >> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > >> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > >> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > >> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > >> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > >> > life. > >> > > >> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > >> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > >> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > >> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but > >> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > >> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > >> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > >> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > >> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > >> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after > >> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > >> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > >> > > >> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > >> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > >> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > >> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > >> > > >> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > >> > Let everything you do be done in love. > >> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > >> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > >> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > >> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > >> > The fish are biting. > >> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > >> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Simon, I appreciate your post it actually wasn't directed at you but here is my response anyway since you did bring up good points. Look thru the list of macro yahoo groups are there any other that are vegan? So if vegan macros are in a minority then this group is needed. I can't help it if I'm wonderful and everyone wants to join me here and my nasty in your face approach. ???? I needed and I wanted a place to let it out and hear from others. Saying we are in the minority is a defeatist approach to our cause. Macrobiotics as a whole is a minority in the Western world should we all give it up and start eating crap? Saying we should accept is ridiculous (no offense) b/c we are not living in a bubble we are here for exactly the reason ANY group exists to find like minded people, to get what we can't find elsewhere. Society has shown how minorities flourish. Would you prefer I sit in the back of the bus? I won't do it, I will sit in the front and if someone doesn't like it they can buzz off. Heck, I had to find someone on the other side of the world that makes me happy, that I feel completes me and it's all thanks to this same tool: the internet. I realize the world eats animals, I realize that most people don't care that animals suffer so they can stuff their bellies. I realize that this is a disposible world filled with selfishness and materialists. I don't care, I want my little safe haven. Without it I fail. Not a competition just a goal in life for a strong conviction. I am not bragging just pointing out facts here. I have received so many personal emails from others in the group thanking me for having this group because I've helped them with the support they needed and couldn't get elsewhere. A few years ago one girl told me she nearly killed herself! Wow right? Well, if I've helped even ONE person, I've helped humanity and I can be happy with my decision. This is a macro group and it's a vegan macro group. I specifically say that it's open to everyone but to be respectful. If people can't be respectful they need to go elsewhere. I don't count members, I don't care how many people are here yet it's the largest group around. I only know this because someone pointed it out to me many times. Something works. If we can't be respectful here that means something is wrong in life, we can't keep our mouth shut here then we can't do it anywhere in life. As minorities we SHOULD respect a safe place. Would anyone here go hang out at an AA meeting drinking a beer saying get over it, accept the world is filled with people who drink it's legal??? NO I don't think so unless the person is a total jerk. One time I was at a kosher restaurant and asked if there were any non vegan ingredients in the soup. The owner was getting really annoyed with my questions. I pointed out to him that I would have expected as someone with a restricted diet himself he would understand and respect mine. I hope some of this makes sense to you. Thank you for being an ever present and helpful part of this group. You and all the others. Peace, Reggie > >> > > >> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > >> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > >> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > >> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > >> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > >> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > >> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > >> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > >> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > >> > be the case. > >> > > >> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > >> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > >> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > >> > > >> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > >> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > >> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > >> > > >> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > >> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > >> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > >> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > >> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > >> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > >> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > >> > > >> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > >> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > >> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > >> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > >> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > >> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > >> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > >> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > >> > life. > >> > > >> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > >> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > >> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > >> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but > >> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > >> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > >> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > >> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > >> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > >> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after > >> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > >> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > >> > > >> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > >> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > >> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > >> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > >> > > >> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > >> > Let everything you do be done in love. > >> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > >> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > >> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > >> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > >> > The fish are biting. > >> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > >> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Reg, Phew – but now I know you were not referring to me I feel a bit silly wasting all that time writing my previous email. Seriously I do totally understand your message and you are certainly right about the internet. Here is a little piece I wrote for the macrobiotic guide about macrobiotics and education and the interesting thing is that is actually happening here. There is a wonderful sharing without any of the old hierarchy that dominated some of the macrobiotics in the past. “There seems to be a lot of agreement that people within macrobiotics became dogmatic, conceptual, deluded and arrogant at times. I think one mistake was that we believed in things that were really opinions and presented them as fact, inviting ridicule. By becoming attached to those opinions we became defensive and perhaps exposed our least appealing side. It is interesting to experiment by paring down and getting rid of everything that is not essential to macrobiotics and see what we are left with. What is macrobiotic reality? Is it lists of foods typed onto a piece of paper, yin and yang, non credo, an aspiration, a spiritual movement, lifestyle choice? For me I would like it to be a group of people exploring the relationship between their deepest self and their environment. This might include; food, the feeling of energy in ourselves and the world around us and different ways people have perceived our universe but no doubt other facets would emerge. It could develop our skills of observation, listening and sensitivity to nature. Most importantly it would be a shared experience. In my interpretation there would be no need for beliefs, good or bad food lists, judgements, moralising or dogma. This house would be a place of experimentation, openness and acceptance. Here there would be no need for teachers, leaders or practitioners we would all learn from each other. It might sound too vague and unstructured to many people but this approach works in art, design and even business. We may as well accept we are not going to agree when talking about macrobiotics, that we will all have different opinions and that that is all they are - opinions. Just a fleeting thought. The key is to enjoy the process and relax in terms of expectations. I do not believe we have anything to prove and do not feel any inclination to sell macrobiotics. We have now reached a stage where we can relax, enjoy the discussions and be open to new twists and turns. It may be that by being ourselves and practicing macrobiotics in the way we feel happy with brings forth a new enjoyment, and that macrobiotics as a whole becomes more fun, interesting and real.” Referring to your email below I do not think you should ever want to change yourself or this site. It works and you do a fantastic job. The in your face stuff just makes it more interesting. In the end the real question will be how much can you put up with people like me mentioning non vegan foods occasionally. If I do I can assure you I do with the greatest of respect to anyone who is in this group. You are more than welcome to tell me to bugger off if you feel like it or I can just talk about the non vegan aspect of macrobiotics at the moderndaymacrobiotics group. All the best, Simon Simon, I appreciate your post it actually wasn't directed at you but here is my response anyway since you did bring up good points. Look thru the list of macro yahoo groups are there any other that are vegan? So if vegan macros are in a minority then this group is needed. I can't help it if I'm wonderful and everyone wants to join me here and my nasty in your face approach. ???? I needed and I wanted a place to let it out and hear from others. Saying we are in the minority is a defeatist approach to our cause. Macrobiotics as a whole is a minority in the Western world should we all give it up and start eating crap? Saying we should accept is ridiculous (no offense) b/c we are not living in a bubble we are here for exactly the reason ANY group exists to find like minded people, to get what we can't find elsewhere. Society has shown how minorities flourish. Would you prefer I sit in the back of the bus? I won't do it, I will sit in the front and if someone doesn't like it they can buzz off. Heck, I had to find someone on the other side of the world that makes me happy, that I feel completes me and it's all thanks to this same tool: the internet. I realize the world eats animals, I realize that most people don't care that animals suffer so they can stuff their bellies. I realize that this is a disposible world filled with selfishness and materialists. I don't care, I want my little safe haven. Without it I fail. Not a competition just a goal in life for a strong conviction. I am not bragging just pointing out facts here. I have received so many personal emails from others in the group thanking me for having this group because I've helped them with the support they needed and couldn't get elsewhere. A few years ago one girl told me she nearly killed herself! Wow right? Well, if I've helped even ONE person, I've helped humanity and I can be happy with my decision. This is a macro group and it's a vegan macro group. I specifically say that it's open to everyone but to be respectful. If people can't be respectful they need to go elsewhere. I don't count members, I don't care how many people are here yet it's the largest group around. I only know this because someone pointed it out to me many times. Something works. If we can't be respectful here that means something is wrong in life, we can't keep our mouth shut here then we can't do it anywhere in life. As minorities we SHOULD respect a safe place. Would anyone here go hang out at an AA meeting drinking a beer saying get over it, accept the world is filled with people who drink it's legal??? NO I don't think so unless the person is a total jerk. One time I was at a kosher restaurant and asked if there were any non vegan ingredients in the soup. The owner was getting really annoyed with my questions. I pointed out to him that I would have expected as someone with a restricted diet himself he would understand and respect mine. I hope some of this makes sense to you. Thank you for being an ever present and helpful part of this group. You and all the others. Peace, Reggie > >> > > >> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > >> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > >> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > >> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > >> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > >> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > >> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > >> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > >> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > >> > be the case. > >> > > >> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > >> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > >> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > >> > > >> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > >> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > >> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > >> > > >> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > >> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > >> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > >> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > >> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > >> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > >> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > >> > > >> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > >> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > >> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > >> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > >> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > >> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > >> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > >> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > >> > life. > >> > > >> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > >> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > >> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > >> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier but > >> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > >> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > >> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > >> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > >> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > >> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way after > >> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > >> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > >> > > >> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > >> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > >> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > >> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > >> > > >> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > >> > Let everything you do be done in love. > >> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > >> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > >> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > >> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > >> > The fish are biting. > >> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > >> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I slept in this morning. A gift to myself. Just now reading email. Following the posting of yesterday I chose to open the copy of The Teachings of Michio Kushi [i mention in an earlier post] late yesterday afternoon. Over a number of years I have come to understand I have been given a gift - as many people may have - of angels pointing out to me passages in books of something needed at a particular time. There was a purpose in my finding the book this past Saturday. A gift. So yesterday I opened to a particular passage in this old copy of Michio Kushi's writings. And what do I find written there? Before this man dies I absolutely must travel to Becket to thank him personally rather than simply writing letters expressing my gratitude. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Teachings of Michio Kushi Compiled Edition Volume One pg. 65-67 a response to several letters received Often we speak of our human spirit without realizing that everything has spirit. Have you ever considered whether our daily food of grains and vegetables has soul or spirit? If not, then how did they grow? If they do, how do they turn into our soul? ....We should not restrict our meaning of food to that which we take through our mouth, for we are also eating vibrations in the form and light, and with our Supreme Judgement we receive directly from INfinity. Man eats Infinity, and his daily food is a condensed form, a manifestation of, this Infinity. There are some who do not eat through the mouth and continue to live, but we must remember that they ate while they were growing and that they are still eating food in many forms with other parts of the body, as every man does. As Mr. Ohsawa said, " Supreme Judgement is always with us, for we are always within Infinity no matter what we do. " How we experience this Infinity, however, is another matter, it depends on our health, on the quality of our blood which nourishes our organs and determines our perceptions, and this is built and maintained by our daily food. Besides the food we chew and swallow, of course, there is the exercise of our imagination and our judgement, our study and regulation of our daily lives, our meditations and our activity, and all of these are governed by yin and yang. We must emphasize food, however, because without the proper balance on tis level none of the others can operate properly. ....It is difficult to accept the profound influence that food has on us. For many this seems to be a negation of freedom; actually, it is just the beginning of true understanding of man's free origin. Please think about these things and write us again if you are not convinced. You are voicing the doubts of an entire generation, and we welcome the opportunity to discuss them with you in this way. Then there is a discussion and depiction of the structure of brown rice. Everyone has the choice of what to eat, and of what they choose to teach their children to eat. Free will, free choice. The food we consume becomes part of our being - affects every aspect of our lives. What we choose to feed our children when they are little determines their health and well being for years to come. I could write more - but perhaps I have written enough for the time being. May all beings live in peace. Em Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi Let everything you do be done in love. 1 Corinthians 16:14 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I slept in this morning. A gift to myself. Just now reading email. Following the posting of yesterday I chose to open the copy of The Teachings of Michio Kushi [i mention in an earlier post] late yesterday afternoon. Over a number of years I have come to understand I have been given a gift - as many people may have - of angels pointing out to me passages in books of something needed at a particular time. There was a purpose in my finding the book this past Saturday. A gift. So yesterday I opened to a particular passage in this old copy of Michio Kushi's writings. And what do I find written there? Before this man dies I absolutely must travel to Becket to thank him personally rather than simply writing letters expressing my gratitude. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Teachings of Michio Kushi Compiled Edition Volume One pg. 65-67 a response to several letters received Often we speak of our human spirit without realizing that everything has spirit. Have you ever considered whether our daily food of grains and vegetables has soul or spirit? If not, then how did they grow? If they do, how do they turn into our soul? ....We should not restrict our meaning of food to that which we take through our mouth, for we are also eating vibrations in the form and light, and with our Supreme Judgement we receive directly from INfinity. Man eats Infinity, and his daily food is a condensed form, a manifestation of, this Infinity. There are some who do not eat through the mouth and continue to live, but we must remember that they ate while they were growing and that they are still eating food in many forms with other parts of the body, as every man does. As Mr. Ohsawa said, " Supreme Judgement is always with us, for we are always within Infinity no matter what we do. " How we experience this Infinity, however, is another matter, it depends on our health, on the quality of our blood which nourishes our organs and determines our perceptions, and this is built and maintained by our daily food. Besides the food we chew and swallow, of course, there is the exercise of our imagination and our judgement, our study and regulation of our daily lives, our meditations and our activity, and all of these are governed by yin and yang. We must emphasize food, however, because without the proper balance on tis level none of the others can operate properly. ....It is difficult to accept the profound influence that food has on us. For many this seems to be a negation of freedom; actually, it is just the beginning of true understanding of man's free origin. Please think about these things and write us again if you are not convinced. You are voicing the doubts of an entire generation, and we welcome the opportunity to discuss them with you in this way. Then there is a discussion and depiction of the structure of brown rice. Everyone has the choice of what to eat, and of what they choose to teach their children to eat. Free will, free choice. The food we consume becomes part of our being - affects every aspect of our lives. What we choose to feed our children when they are little determines their health and well being for years to come. I could write more - but perhaps I have written enough for the time being. May all beings live in peace. Em Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi Let everything you do be done in love. 1 Corinthians 16:14 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I slept in this morning. A gift to myself. Just now reading email. Following the posting of yesterday I chose to open the copy of The Teachings of Michio Kushi [i mention in an earlier post] late yesterday afternoon. Over a number of years I have come to understand I have been given a gift - as many people may have - of angels pointing out to me passages in books of something needed at a particular time. There was a purpose in my finding the book this past Saturday. A gift. So yesterday I opened to a particular passage in this old copy of Michio Kushi's writings. And what do I find written there? Before this man dies I absolutely must travel to Becket to thank him personally rather than simply writing letters expressing my gratitude. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Teachings of Michio Kushi Compiled Edition Volume One pg. 65-67 a response to several letters received Often we speak of our human spirit without realizing that everything has spirit. Have you ever considered whether our daily food of grains and vegetables has soul or spirit? If not, then how did they grow? If they do, how do they turn into our soul? ....We should not restrict our meaning of food to that which we take through our mouth, for we are also eating vibrations in the form and light, and with our Supreme Judgement we receive directly from INfinity. Man eats Infinity, and his daily food is a condensed form, a manifestation of, this Infinity. There are some who do not eat through the mouth and continue to live, but we must remember that they ate while they were growing and that they are still eating food in many forms with other parts of the body, as every man does. As Mr. Ohsawa said, " Supreme Judgement is always with us, for we are always within Infinity no matter what we do. " How we experience this Infinity, however, is another matter, it depends on our health, on the quality of our blood which nourishes our organs and determines our perceptions, and this is built and maintained by our daily food. Besides the food we chew and swallow, of course, there is the exercise of our imagination and our judgement, our study and regulation of our daily lives, our meditations and our activity, and all of these are governed by yin and yang. We must emphasize food, however, because without the proper balance on tis level none of the others can operate properly. ....It is difficult to accept the profound influence that food has on us. For many this seems to be a negation of freedom; actually, it is just the beginning of true understanding of man's free origin. Please think about these things and write us again if you are not convinced. You are voicing the doubts of an entire generation, and we welcome the opportunity to discuss them with you in this way. Then there is a discussion and depiction of the structure of brown rice. Everyone has the choice of what to eat, and of what they choose to teach their children to eat. Free will, free choice. The food we consume becomes part of our being - affects every aspect of our lives. What we choose to feed our children when they are little determines their health and well being for years to come. I could write more - but perhaps I have written enough for the time being. May all beings live in peace. Em Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi Let everything you do be done in love. 1 Corinthians 16:14 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi There In my defense and I admitt I was a fanatic, mainly because I thought macrobiotics was absolutely fantastic, my family, especially Simon, took great pleasure in winding me up and making jokes about 'my guru' who ended up my husband and eating in Mac s . Reggie, good luck with Simon. He never gives up. Nothing gives him more fun that a good discussion especially if someone doesn't agree with him. I introduced Simon to macrobiotics coz he lived in my flat in London and I cooked all the meals which he loved. Later he would have endless debates with Denny (my ex hubbie) and you would think the whole subject had beent totally worn out when a few days even weeks later, Simon would say. 'Denny you know those atoms we were discussing, I have been thinking........... " , and everyone would raise their eyes to the heavens and say, 'no way, not this again!!!! " Enjoy him coz you will never win, he is just not that emotionally attached to his viewpoint - lol!! Love you Simon! Mel Brown Waxman www.celebrate4health.com www.bebabywise.com info@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hey Simon, Thanks for passing that on. I think the bigger issue (not only for me but for the other vegans here as I've heard privately) is not that people mention consuming animal products but not really grasping the point or heartfelt emotions behind veganism. It's not just about NOT EATING ANIMAL it's a way of life about compassion and understanding and hope. I hate when people tell me they are animal lovers and turn around and eat a turkey sandwich. I'm sorry to those who consume this flesh but let's be real, why should a turkey be less loved than a dog or cat? Why is it ok to skin an animal alive for our comfort? This is bad bad bad. I think many here (not you my dear) get so offended b/c deep down *perhaps* they feel guilt for contributing to the massive slaughter of animals. Once again, JMHO Peace, (and love for you baby) Reggie PS when do you think this joke will become boring? > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > >>>>> > >> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > >>>>> > >> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > >>>>> > >> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > >>>>> > >> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > >>>>> > >> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > >>>>> > >> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > >>>>> > >> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > >>>>> > >> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > >>>>> > >> > be the case. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > >>>>> > >> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > >>>>> > >> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > >>>>> > >> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > >>>>> > >> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > >>>>> > >> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > >>>>> > >> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > >>>>> > >> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > >>>>> > >> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > >>>>> > >> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > >>>>> > >> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > >>>>> > >> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > >>>>> > >> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > >>>>> > >> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > >>>>> > >> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > >>>>> > >> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > >>>>> > >> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > >>>>> > >> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > >>>>> > >> > life. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > >>>>> > >> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > >>>>> > >> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > >>>>> > >> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier > > but > >>>>> > >> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > >>>>> > >> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > >>>>> > >> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > >>>>> > >> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > >>>>> > >> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > >>>>> > >> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way > > after > >>>>> > >> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > >>>>> > >> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > >>>>> > >> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > >>>>> > >> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > >>>>> > >> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > >>>>> > >> > Let everything you do be done in love. > >>>>> > >> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > >>>>> > >> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > >>>>> > >> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > >>>>> > >> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>> > > __________________________________________________________ > >>> > > ______________ > >>>>> > >> > The fish are biting. > >>>>> > >> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > >>>>> > >> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > >>>>> > >> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 who is in it to win? > > Hi There > > In my defense and I admitt I was a fanatic, mainly because I thought macrobiotics was absolutely fantastic, my family, especially Simon, took great pleasure in winding me up and making jokes about 'my guru' who ended up my husband and eating in Mac s . Reggie, good luck with Simon. He never gives up. Nothing gives him more fun that a good discussion especially if someone doesn't agree with him. I introduced Simon to macrobiotics coz he lived in my flat in London and I cooked all the meals which he loved. Later he would have endless debates with Denny (my ex hubbie) and you would think the whole subject had beent totally worn out when a few days even weeks later, Simon would say. 'Denny you know those atoms we were discussing, I have been thinking........... " , and everyone would raise their eyes to the heavens and say, 'no way, not this again!!!! " > > Enjoy him coz you will never win, he is just not that emotionally attached to his viewpoint - lol!! > > Love you Simon! > Mel > > Brown Waxman > www.celebrate4health.com > www.bebabywise.com > info@... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Wow Reggie - you love to pick at every little thing - it was said in jest!!!!!!!! Re: calling all vegans > >who is in it to win? > >> >> Hi There >> >> In my defense and I admitt I was a fanatic, mainly because I >thought macrobiotics was absolutely fantastic, my family, especially >Simon, took great pleasure in winding me up and making jokes >about 'my guru' who ended up my husband and eating in Mac s . >Reggie, good luck with Simon. He never gives up. Nothing gives him >more fun that a good discussion especially if someone doesn't agree >with him. I introduced Simon to macrobiotics coz he lived in my flat >in London and I cooked all the meals which he loved. Later he would >have endless debates with Denny (my ex hubbie) and you would think >the whole subject had beent totally worn out when a few days even >weeks later, Simon would say. 'Denny you know those atoms we were >discussing, I have been thinking........... " , and everyone would >raise their eyes to the heavens and say, 'no way, not this again!!!! " >> >> Enjoy him coz you will never win, he is just not that emotionally >attached to his viewpoint - lol!! >> >> Love you Simon! >> Mel >> >> Brown Waxman >> www.celebrate4health.com >> www.bebabywise.com >> info@... >> > > Brown Waxman www.celebrate4health.com www.bebabywise.com info@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hi Reggie, This is one of those situations where we probably agree on ninety-nine percent and disagree on one percent but that one percent sometimes seem so big because we agree on so much else. I think one of the greatest comedic moments and most accurate parodies of human character was in Monty Python’s Life of when all the Jewish revolutionary groups focussed more hatred on each other than the Romans – the very people they were meant to be revolting against. I am myself dedicated to living in as much harmony with my surroundings as possible including the environment, animals and people. There is no doubt that vegans do more for the environment than any other group of people I know of except perhaps the Amish. I would also help and support anyone eating a vegan diet. The difference is a philosophical one in which I do not want to make assumptions or become moralistic and dualistic in my thinking and out of this I am much less attached to any kind of ideal. To me it is totally compatible to be vegan and wear leather shoes or to be vegan for nine months, have some animal food and go back to being vegan again. The difference is in how much we live in our reality and how much in our heads. Living out a principle or belief means we cannot be as close to reality. We build an internal filter that corrupts our perception of reality to favour our pet theories. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent but the stronger and more definite those convictions are the more deluded we become. For me this gets in the way of honing my intuition and feeling as connected to the world around me as I do. Therefore I do not have many if any beliefs and whilst I am sympathetic to anyone who takes on a belief I do not believe it myself. On the point of this site and its members I like and understand the idea of your safe haven but safe havens rarely are a safe place to be for very long as we will inevitably end up supporting each other in ways that are ultimately unhealthy. This was the main reason macrobiotic people have run into problems in the past. Mutual isolation of a group of like minded people historically makes them weaker just as in nature inter breeding weakens the species. I think honesty and openness is key for any kind of evolution and development and to create a vegan society does involve being open and taking seriously any of the potential short comings of this way of eating and not feeling insecure about exposing ourselves to different issues and looking to see how we can best resolves things. There already is a huge resource of people here and in the past members have come up with great solutions to different issues. If you would like to read more on how this applies to macrobiotics I wrote an article a few years ago that is still on my site. You can go to; http://www.chienergy.co.uk/freeinformationmb.htm#mbthoughts Remember these are only some words I wrote in the moment, none of it has any truth, it is just a gentle exploration and may spark off a much more interesting thought in someone else that will amaze us all! Love and peace, Simon Hey Simon, Thanks for passing that on. I think the bigger issue (not only for me but for the other vegans here as I've heard privately) is not that people mention consuming animal products but not really grasping the point or heartfelt emotions behind veganism. It's not just about NOT EATING ANIMAL it's a way of life about compassion and understanding and hope. I hate when people tell me they are animal lovers and turn around and eat a turkey sandwich. I'm sorry to those who consume this flesh but let's be real, why should a turkey be less loved than a dog or cat? Why is it ok to skin an animal alive for our comfort? This is bad bad bad. I think many here (not you my dear) get so offended b/c deep down *perhaps* they feel guilt for contributing to the massive slaughter of animals. Once again, JMHO Peace, (and love for you baby) Reggie PS when do you think this joke will become boring? > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > >>>>> > >> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > >>>>> > >> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > >>>>> > >> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > >>>>> > >> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > >>>>> > >> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > >>>>> > >> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > >>>>> > >> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > >>>>> > >> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > >>>>> > >> > be the case. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > >>>>> > >> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > >>>>> > >> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > >>>>> > >> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > >>>>> > >> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > >>>>> > >> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > >>>>> > >> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > >>>>> > >> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > >>>>> > >> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > >>>>> > >> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > >>>>> > >> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > >>>>> > >> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > >>>>> > >> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > >>>>> > >> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > >>>>> > >> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > >>>>> > >> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > >>>>> > >> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > >>>>> > >> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > >>>>> > >> > life. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > >>>>> > >> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > >>>>> > >> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > >>>>> > >> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier > > but > >>>>> > >> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > >>>>> > >> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > >>>>> > >> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > >>>>> > >> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > >>>>> > >> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > >>>>> > >> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way > > after > >>>>> > >> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > >>>>> > >> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > >>>>> > >> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > >>>>> > >> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > >>>>> > >> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > >>>>> > >> > Let everything you do be done in love. > >>>>> > >> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > >>>>> > >> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > >>>>> > >> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > >>>>> > >> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>> > > __________________________________________________________ > >>> > > ______________ > >>>>> > >> > The fish are biting. > >>>>> > >> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > >>>>> > >> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > >>>>> > >> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hi Reggie, This is one of those situations where we probably agree on ninety-nine percent and disagree on one percent but that one percent sometimes seem so big because we agree on so much else. I think one of the greatest comedic moments and most accurate parodies of human character was in Monty Python’s Life of when all the Jewish revolutionary groups focussed more hatred on each other than the Romans – the very people they were meant to be revolting against. I am myself dedicated to living in as much harmony with my surroundings as possible including the environment, animals and people. There is no doubt that vegans do more for the environment than any other group of people I know of except perhaps the Amish. I would also help and support anyone eating a vegan diet. The difference is a philosophical one in which I do not want to make assumptions or become moralistic and dualistic in my thinking and out of this I am much less attached to any kind of ideal. To me it is totally compatible to be vegan and wear leather shoes or to be vegan for nine months, have some animal food and go back to being vegan again. The difference is in how much we live in our reality and how much in our heads. Living out a principle or belief means we cannot be as close to reality. We build an internal filter that corrupts our perception of reality to favour our pet theories. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent but the stronger and more definite those convictions are the more deluded we become. For me this gets in the way of honing my intuition and feeling as connected to the world around me as I do. Therefore I do not have many if any beliefs and whilst I am sympathetic to anyone who takes on a belief I do not believe it myself. On the point of this site and its members I like and understand the idea of your safe haven but safe havens rarely are a safe place to be for very long as we will inevitably end up supporting each other in ways that are ultimately unhealthy. This was the main reason macrobiotic people have run into problems in the past. Mutual isolation of a group of like minded people historically makes them weaker just as in nature inter breeding weakens the species. I think honesty and openness is key for any kind of evolution and development and to create a vegan society does involve being open and taking seriously any of the potential short comings of this way of eating and not feeling insecure about exposing ourselves to different issues and looking to see how we can best resolves things. There already is a huge resource of people here and in the past members have come up with great solutions to different issues. If you would like to read more on how this applies to macrobiotics I wrote an article a few years ago that is still on my site. You can go to; http://www.chienergy.co.uk/freeinformationmb.htm#mbthoughts Remember these are only some words I wrote in the moment, none of it has any truth, it is just a gentle exploration and may spark off a much more interesting thought in someone else that will amaze us all! Love and peace, Simon Hey Simon, Thanks for passing that on. I think the bigger issue (not only for me but for the other vegans here as I've heard privately) is not that people mention consuming animal products but not really grasping the point or heartfelt emotions behind veganism. It's not just about NOT EATING ANIMAL it's a way of life about compassion and understanding and hope. I hate when people tell me they are animal lovers and turn around and eat a turkey sandwich. I'm sorry to those who consume this flesh but let's be real, why should a turkey be less loved than a dog or cat? Why is it ok to skin an animal alive for our comfort? This is bad bad bad. I think many here (not you my dear) get so offended b/c deep down *perhaps* they feel guilt for contributing to the massive slaughter of animals. Once again, JMHO Peace, (and love for you baby) Reggie PS when do you think this joke will become boring? > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Please forgive me if I do not write this as graciously as I > >>>>> > >> > would wish to. I write from a place of reverence for all of > >>>>> > >> > life - for all creatures - all beings. If that comes across as > >>>>> > >> > judgemental I am sorry - I have long held convictions of the > >>>>> > >> > heart that I choose to share on this list. A list that was > >>>>> > >> > created as a forum advocating vegan macrobiotics. When finding > >>>>> > >> > this list I was so very pleased - I thought I had finally > >>>>> > >> > found a kindred group of people to communicate with regarding > >>>>> > >> > diet/health/recipes/support -only to realize that might not > >>>>> > >> > be the case. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Thank you Simon for sharing a history of macrobiotics I have > >>>>> > >> > been unaware of. I have been in 'discussion' with Bruce off > >>>>> > >> > the list for much of the morning regarding the use of dairy. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > [in addition to other online conversations this morning that > >>>>> > >> > may be of more immediate concern ie the pending war in Iran > >>>>> > >> > and escalation of war in Iraq.] > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I intend to find a lovely article We Are One written by > >>>>> > >> > Michio Kushi fairly recently found in a magazine that is > >>>>> > >> > clearly offering a more vegan approach to macrobiotics than > >>>>> > >> > I remember from years ago when I first chose to follow > >>>>> > >> > certain aspects of macrobiotics for myself and my son. > >>>>> > >> > I will find the article - either online - or find the copy I > >>>>> > >> > have stored away - in order to post it here on this list. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Simon perhaps you did not read one of my initial posts to this > >>>>> > >> > list where I write of being indebted to Michio Kushi for an > >>>>> > >> > article I found explaining that cows milk was meant for baby > >>>>> > >> > cows - and difficult for some people to digest - contributing > >>>>> > >> > to a number of common diseases and maladies. Had I listened to > >>>>> > >> > doctors I would have had a hysterectomy - missing out on the > >>>>> > >> > joy of motherhood entirely. Very grateful for finding the > >>>>> > >> > article offering me another choice at that crucial time in my > >>>>> > >> > life. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I choose to advocate a vegan diet - as a compassionate, healthy > >>>>> > >> > choice - respecting the life of all creatures. Has anyone seen > >>>>> > >> > the book by Will Tuttle The World Peace Diet? I have been a > >>>>> > >> > vegetarian perhaps 35 years now - would have done so earlier > > but > >>>>> > >> > not allowed in my father's home. I value macrobiotic principles > >>>>> > >> > but I have chosen a vegan approach to macrobiotics as I believe > >>>>> > >> > in not harming animals, my own being or those I care for. To me > >>>>> > >> > it is about LIFE, LOVE and CARE. I believe we have the > >>>>> > >> > opportunity to share our knowledge of the principles of > >>>>> > >> > macrobiotics and 'no harm' to those just finding their way > > after > >>>>> > >> > 'life at home' with parents who may not have had an > >>>>> > >> > understanding of healthy living or healthy eating practices. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I also want to acknowledge 's lovely website - with the > >>>>> > >> > excellent information on grain milk for babies. Thank you for > >>>>> > >> > offering new mothers such concise information that was not > >>>>> > >> > available years ago when I was a young mother. Blessings, Em > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Let the beauty we love be what we do. Rumi > >>>>> > >> > Let everything you do be done in love. > >>>>> > >> > 1 Corinthians 16:14 > >>>>> > >> > 'Love is the measure.' Dorothy Day > >>>>> > >> > 'Gather yourselves...All that we do now must > >>>>> > >> > be done in a sacred manner.' Hopi Elders 2001 > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>> > > __________________________________________________________ > >>> > > ______________ > >>>>> > >> > The fish are biting. > >>>>> > >> > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > >>>>> > >> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > >>>>> > >> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 that was a joke don't get so defensive. Maybe I should put smiley faces for those who can't tell I'm joking? > >> > >> Hi There > >> > >> In my defense and I admitt I was a fanatic, mainly because I > >thought macrobiotics was absolutely fantastic, my family, especially > >Simon, took great pleasure in winding me up and making jokes > >about 'my guru' who ended up my husband and eating in Mac s . > >Reggie, good luck with Simon. He never gives up. Nothing gives him > >more fun that a good discussion especially if someone doesn't agree > >with him. I introduced Simon to macrobiotics coz he lived in my flat > >in London and I cooked all the meals which he loved. Later he would > >have endless debates with Denny (my ex hubbie) and you would think > >the whole subject had beent totally worn out when a few days even > >weeks later, Simon would say. 'Denny you know those atoms we were > >discussing, I have been thinking........... " , and everyone would > >raise their eyes to the heavens and say, 'no way, not this again!!!! " > >> > >> Enjoy him coz you will never win, he is just not that emotionally > >attached to his viewpoint - lol!! > >> > >> Love you Simon! > >> Mel > >> > >> Brown Waxman > >> www.celebrate4health.com > >> www.bebabywise.com > >> info@ > >> > > > > > > > Brown Waxman > www.celebrate4health.com > www.bebabywise.com > info@... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 that was a joke don't get so defensive. Maybe I should put smiley faces for those who can't tell I'm joking? > >> > >> Hi There > >> > >> In my defense and I admitt I was a fanatic, mainly because I > >thought macrobiotics was absolutely fantastic, my family, especially > >Simon, took great pleasure in winding me up and making jokes > >about 'my guru' who ended up my husband and eating in Mac s . > >Reggie, good luck with Simon. He never gives up. Nothing gives him > >more fun that a good discussion especially if someone doesn't agree > >with him. I introduced Simon to macrobiotics coz he lived in my flat > >in London and I cooked all the meals which he loved. Later he would > >have endless debates with Denny (my ex hubbie) and you would think > >the whole subject had beent totally worn out when a few days even > >weeks later, Simon would say. 'Denny you know those atoms we were > >discussing, I have been thinking........... " , and everyone would > >raise their eyes to the heavens and say, 'no way, not this again!!!! " > >> > >> Enjoy him coz you will never win, he is just not that emotionally > >attached to his viewpoint - lol!! > >> > >> Love you Simon! > >> Mel > >> > >> Brown Waxman > >> www.celebrate4health.com > >> www.bebabywise.com > >> info@ > >> > > > > > > > Brown Waxman > www.celebrate4health.com > www.bebabywise.com > info@... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Simon, Again, this to me is the same background as having rules or working by intuition discussion we had - I think it's related to the levels of judgment, which one cannnot just skip over levels because it sounds nice - I think we have to experience it, go thru the different stages, and of course, eat as balanced as possible to get to the other stages - and again, everyone in their own time. The level of supreme non-judgment (is that how it's called?) is beautiful, but we don't just fall there because it's beautiful. Life isn't that simple - but to get to that simplicity is indeed a worthwhile goal - which takes work - much self reflection, much willingness to try different ways - much failures, also. Klara Holly wrote: >> Hi Reggie,> > > The difference is a philosophical one in which I do not want to make> assumptions or become moralistic and dualistic in my thinking and out of> this I am much less attached to any kind of ideal. To me it is totally> compatible to be vegan and wear leather shoes or to be vegan for nine> months, have some animal food and go back to being vegan again. The> difference is in how much we live in our reality and how much in our heads.> > Living out a principle or belief means we cannot be as close to reality. We> build an internal filter that corrupts our perception of reality to favour> our pet theories. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent but the> stronger and more definite those convictions are the more deluded we become.> For me this gets in the way of honing my intuition and feeling as connected> to the world around me as I do. Therefore I do not have many if any beliefs> and whilst I am sympathetic to anyone who takes on a belief I do not believe> it myself.> > On the point of this site and its members I like and understand the idea of> your safe haven but safe havens rarely are a safe place to be for very long> as we will inevitably end up supporting each other in ways that are> ultimately unhealthy. This was the main reason macrobiotic people have run> into problems in the past. Mutual isolation of a group of like minded people> historically makes them weaker just as in nature inter breeding weakens the> species. I think honesty and openness is key for any kind of evolution and> development and to create a vegan society does involve being open and taking> seriously any of the potential short comings of this way of eating and not> feeling insecure about exposing ourselves to different issues and looking to> see how we can best resolves things. There already is a huge resource of> people here and in the past members have come up with great solutions to> different issues.> > Love and peace,> > SimonOh my...how wonderfully put.I think seeking Harmony through Conflict is the biggest habitwe could let go of on this planet...I am still trying to dig deeper withinmyself to see why we continually seek Separation as a species...I feel so grateful to have arrived on the doorstep to mb and see sucha vast, open space for exploration.how inspiring all of you are to me,Holly Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Simon I obviously don't agree with you. If you mean you can be animal consumption free and then not that's one thing. But to me vegan is not only to not eat animal products but the actual concern and love for animals, not wanting to cause harm, staying away from animal derived ingredients too. In refence to alienating and such with groups there has to be some point that limits the boundaries. Your new macro group for instance, would you want a whole group of people to join who only speak about Mc s and how that is all they want to eat and that is the best way to eat and everyone should consider eating that way? I don't think that it creates unhealthy behavior either. If we had no social skills and our only source of socialization was with our group, that would make sense. But we deal with all sorts of people all day everyday. Having a little group where we can feel safe and comfortable is healthy. I'm not only looking at this from my point of view but from a psychological and sociological one. Just because there is a room full of vegans doesn't mean they have the same value system or thought process or belief system of any sort. I have many vegan friends who are local, we have some common ground but in other ways we are SO different. Getting together makes it possible to see how situations are handled differently, etc. come closer there is a piece of tiramisu waiting for you with a hot cup of Roma.......................... Reg > > > > Hi Reggie, > > > > > > The difference is a philosophical one in which I do not want to make > > assumptions or become moralistic and dualistic in my thinking and out of > > this I am much less attached to any kind of ideal. To me it is totally > > compatible to be vegan and wear leather shoes or to be vegan for nine > > months, have some animal food and go back to being vegan again. The > > difference is in how much we live in our reality and how much in our heads. > > > > Living out a principle or belief means we cannot be as close to reality. We > > build an internal filter that corrupts our perception of reality to favour > > our pet theories. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent but the > > stronger and more definite those convictions are the more deluded we become. > > For me this gets in the way of honing my intuition and feeling as connected > > to the world around me as I do. Therefore I do not have many if any beliefs > > and whilst I am sympathetic to anyone who takes on a belief I do not believe > > it myself. > > > > On the point of this site and its members I like and understand the idea of > > your safe haven but safe havens rarely are a safe place to be for very long > > as we will inevitably end up supporting each other in ways that are > > ultimately unhealthy. This was the main reason macrobiotic people have run > > into problems in the past. Mutual isolation of a group of like minded people > > historically makes them weaker just as in nature inter breeding weakens the > > species. I think honesty and openness is key for any kind of evolution and > > development and to create a vegan society does involve being open and taking > > seriously any of the potential short comings of this way of eating and not > > feeling insecure about exposing ourselves to different issues and looking to > > see how we can best resolves things. There already is a huge resource of > > people here and in the past members have come up with great solutions to > > different issues. > > > > Love and peace, > > > > Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I would have been so disappointed if you had agreed with me. All the best, Simon Simon I obviously don't agree with you. If you mean you can be animal consumption free and then not that's one thing. But to me vegan is not only to not eat animal products but the actual concern and love for animals, not wanting to cause harm, staying away from animal derived ingredients too. In refence to alienating and such with groups there has to be some point that limits the boundaries. Your new macro group for instance, would you want a whole group of people to join who only speak about Mc s and how that is all they want to eat and that is the best way to eat and everyone should consider eating that way? I don't think that it creates unhealthy behavior either. If we had no social skills and our only source of socialization was with our group, that would make sense. But we deal with all sorts of people all day everyday. Having a little group where we can feel safe and comfortable is healthy. I'm not only looking at this from my point of view but from a psychological and sociological one. Just because there is a room full of vegans doesn't mean they have the same value system or thought process or belief system of any sort. I have many vegan friends who are local, we have some common ground but in other ways we are SO different. Getting together makes it possible to see how situations are handled differently, etc. come closer there is a piece of tiramisu waiting for you with a hot cup of Roma.......................... Reg > > > > Hi Reggie, > > > > > > The difference is a philosophical one in which I do not want to make > > assumptions or become moralistic and dualistic in my thinking and out of > > this I am much less attached to any kind of ideal. To me it is totally > > compatible to be vegan and wear leather shoes or to be vegan for nine > > months, have some animal food and go back to being vegan again. The > > difference is in how much we live in our reality and how much in our heads. > > > > Living out a principle or belief means we cannot be as close to reality. We > > build an internal filter that corrupts our perception of reality to favour > > our pet theories. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent but the > > stronger and more definite those convictions are the more deluded we become. > > For me this gets in the way of honing my intuition and feeling as connected > > to the world around me as I do. Therefore I do not have many if any beliefs > > and whilst I am sympathetic to anyone who takes on a belief I do not believe > > it myself. > > > > On the point of this site and its members I like and understand the idea of > > your safe haven but safe havens rarely are a safe place to be for very long > > as we will inevitably end up supporting each other in ways that are > > ultimately unhealthy. This was the main reason macrobiotic people have run > > into problems in the past. Mutual isolation of a group of like minded people > > historically makes them weaker just as in nature inter breeding weakens the > > species. I think honesty and openness is key for any kind of evolution and > > development and to create a vegan society does involve being open and taking > > seriously any of the potential short comings of this way of eating and not > > feeling insecure about exposing ourselves to different issues and looking to > > see how we can best resolves things. There already is a huge resource of > > people here and in the past members have come up with great solutions to > > different issues. > > > > Love and peace, > > > > Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I would have been so disappointed if you had agreed with me. All the best, Simon Simon I obviously don't agree with you. If you mean you can be animal consumption free and then not that's one thing. But to me vegan is not only to not eat animal products but the actual concern and love for animals, not wanting to cause harm, staying away from animal derived ingredients too. In refence to alienating and such with groups there has to be some point that limits the boundaries. Your new macro group for instance, would you want a whole group of people to join who only speak about Mc s and how that is all they want to eat and that is the best way to eat and everyone should consider eating that way? I don't think that it creates unhealthy behavior either. If we had no social skills and our only source of socialization was with our group, that would make sense. But we deal with all sorts of people all day everyday. Having a little group where we can feel safe and comfortable is healthy. I'm not only looking at this from my point of view but from a psychological and sociological one. Just because there is a room full of vegans doesn't mean they have the same value system or thought process or belief system of any sort. I have many vegan friends who are local, we have some common ground but in other ways we are SO different. Getting together makes it possible to see how situations are handled differently, etc. come closer there is a piece of tiramisu waiting for you with a hot cup of Roma.......................... Reg > > > > Hi Reggie, > > > > > > The difference is a philosophical one in which I do not want to make > > assumptions or become moralistic and dualistic in my thinking and out of > > this I am much less attached to any kind of ideal. To me it is totally > > compatible to be vegan and wear leather shoes or to be vegan for nine > > months, have some animal food and go back to being vegan again. The > > difference is in how much we live in our reality and how much in our heads. > > > > Living out a principle or belief means we cannot be as close to reality. We > > build an internal filter that corrupts our perception of reality to favour > > our pet theories. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent but the > > stronger and more definite those convictions are the more deluded we become. > > For me this gets in the way of honing my intuition and feeling as connected > > to the world around me as I do. Therefore I do not have many if any beliefs > > and whilst I am sympathetic to anyone who takes on a belief I do not believe > > it myself. > > > > On the point of this site and its members I like and understand the idea of > > your safe haven but safe havens rarely are a safe place to be for very long > > as we will inevitably end up supporting each other in ways that are > > ultimately unhealthy. This was the main reason macrobiotic people have run > > into problems in the past. Mutual isolation of a group of like minded people > > historically makes them weaker just as in nature inter breeding weakens the > > species. I think honesty and openness is key for any kind of evolution and > > development and to create a vegan society does involve being open and taking > > seriously any of the potential short comings of this way of eating and not > > feeling insecure about exposing ourselves to different issues and looking to > > see how we can best resolves things. There already is a huge resource of > > people here and in the past members have come up with great solutions to > > different issues. > > > > Love and peace, > > > > Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Glad I didn't disappoint you. R > >>> > > > >>> > > Hi Reggie, > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > The difference is a philosophical one in which I do not want to > > make > >>> > > assumptions or become moralistic and dualistic in my thinking and > > out of > >>> > > this I am much less attached to any kind of ideal. To me it is > > totally > >>> > > compatible to be vegan and wear leather shoes or to be vegan for > > nine > >>> > > months, have some animal food and go back to being vegan again. > > The > >>> > > difference is in how much we live in our reality and how much in > > our heads. > >>> > > > >>> > > Living out a principle or belief means we cannot be as close to > > reality. We > >>> > > build an internal filter that corrupts our perception of reality > > to favour > >>> > > our pet theories. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent > > but the > >>> > > stronger and more definite those convictions are the more deluded > > we become. > >>> > > For me this gets in the way of honing my intuition and feeling as > > connected > >>> > > to the world around me as I do. Therefore I do not have many if > > any beliefs > >>> > > and whilst I am sympathetic to anyone who takes on a belief I do > > not believe > >>> > > it myself. > >>> > > > >>> > > On the point of this site and its members I like and understand > > the idea of > >>> > > your safe haven but safe havens rarely are a safe place to be for > > very long > >>> > > as we will inevitably end up supporting each other in ways that > > are > >>> > > ultimately unhealthy. This was the main reason macrobiotic people > > have run > >>> > > into problems in the past. Mutual isolation of a group of like > > minded people > >>> > > historically makes them weaker just as in nature inter breeding > > weakens the > >>> > > species. I think honesty and openness is key for any kind of > > evolution and > >>> > > development and to create a vegan society does involve being open > > and taking > >>> > > seriously any of the potential short comings of this way of > > eating and not > >>> > > feeling insecure about exposing ourselves to different issues and > > looking to > >>> > > see how we can best resolves things. There already is a huge > > resource of > >>> > > people here and in the past members have come up with great > > solutions to > >>> > > different issues. > >>> > > > >>> > > Love and peace, > >>> > > > >>> > > Simon > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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