RE: Need advice

[Guest guest]

Is it beneficial to know if it's pandas or not? If it were, would you do

something different re treatment? I keep thinking that I remember one of mine

having strep at one point. I should dig up the baby books to see if it's in

there. But should it matter to me or not?

Mo

Re: Re: need advice

Well, I was looking in his baby book, and isn't it an odd enough

coincidence that this all took place two weeks after a major strep

infection!! I guess we'll never know, but I wonder how many of his

childhood " incidents " were initial PANDAS attacks that went

unrecognized.

[Guest guest]

> Is it beneficial to know if it's pandas or not?  If it were, would you

> do something different re treatment?  I keep thinking that I remember

> one of mine having strep at one point.  I should dig up the baby books

> to see if it's in there.  But should it matter to me or not?

>

>

IMO, you'd kinda already know if it was PANDAS. The *sudden* *extreme*

onset is kind of hard to miss. And, generally one instance of strep

wouldn't trigger it. (Although, my son's strep was asymptomatic, and

we never even knew he'd had repeated bouts).

The main thing you would do differently is treat the strep infection,

which you should do anyway. We are just a lot more vigilant about it.

Jeanne

jwestpha@...

NBCT - Exceptional Needs (2000)

[Guest guest]

yes the sudden extreme onset is hard to miss --again I want to reiterate

infections beyond PANDAS are most likely involved, particularly Lyme.

And remember, so many of the tests for Lyme are inaccurate, yielding

many false negatives that doctors fail to interpret --especially if you

live in an area endemic for Lyme, you must beware that sudden onset

comes from this too. In most instances, treatment with antibiotics

greatly alleviates the neuropsychiatric symptoms of Lyme disease, but

you need the diagnosis first and that can be hard to come by. pw

Jeanne wrote on 2/14/2005, 8:24 AM:

>

> IMO, you'd kinda already know if it was PANDAS. The *sudden* *extreme*

> onset is kind of hard to miss. And, generally one instance of strep

> wouldn't trigger it. (Although, my son's strep was asymptomatic, and

> we never even knew he'd had repeated bouts).

[Guest guest]

yes the sudden extreme onset is hard to miss --again I want to reiterate

infections beyond PANDAS are most likely involved, particularly Lyme.

And remember, so many of the tests for Lyme are inaccurate, yielding

many false negatives that doctors fail to interpret --especially if you

live in an area endemic for Lyme, you must beware that sudden onset

comes from this too. In most instances, treatment with antibiotics

greatly alleviates the neuropsychiatric symptoms of Lyme disease, but

you need the diagnosis first and that can be hard to come by. pw

Jeanne wrote on 2/14/2005, 8:24 AM:

>

> IMO, you'd kinda already know if it was PANDAS. The *sudden* *extreme*

> onset is kind of hard to miss. And, generally one instance of strep

> wouldn't trigger it. (Although, my son's strep was asymptomatic, and

> we never even knew he'd had repeated bouts).

[Guest guest]

yes the sudden extreme onset is hard to miss --again I want to reiterate

infections beyond PANDAS are most likely involved, particularly Lyme.

And remember, so many of the tests for Lyme are inaccurate, yielding

many false negatives that doctors fail to interpret --especially if you

live in an area endemic for Lyme, you must beware that sudden onset

comes from this too. In most instances, treatment with antibiotics

greatly alleviates the neuropsychiatric symptoms of Lyme disease, but

you need the diagnosis first and that can be hard to come by. pw

Jeanne wrote on 2/14/2005, 8:24 AM:

>

> IMO, you'd kinda already know if it was PANDAS. The *sudden* *extreme*

> onset is kind of hard to miss. And, generally one instance of strep

> wouldn't trigger it. (Although, my son's strep was asymptomatic, and

> we never even knew he'd had repeated bouts).

[Guest guest]

the thing about Pandas --perhaps someone can answer-- is there anyone in the

known universe or anyone you have ever met who has never had strep? How do

they determine when ocd is associated there? I mean, we have ALL had strep at

some point. Pam Weintraub

<<

Unless, perhaps, the negative test is not for active strep but for strep

antibodies? Strep antibodies is one of the many things they tested my dd for

last

summer. She had a slightly elevated strep titer, but not so much that they

seriously considered PANDAS (didn't entirely rule it out, but thought it

unlikely). They told us that the level of antibodies she had indicated that she

had,

indeed, had strep at some point in her life (which we already knew anyway) but

that it was probably not related to the OCD onset.

P. in NJ >>

[Guest guest]

the thing about Pandas --perhaps someone can answer-- is there anyone in the

known universe or anyone you have ever met who has never had strep? How do

they determine when ocd is associated there? I mean, we have ALL had strep at

some point. Pam Weintraub

<<

Unless, perhaps, the negative test is not for active strep but for strep

antibodies? Strep antibodies is one of the many things they tested my dd for

last

summer. She had a slightly elevated strep titer, but not so much that they

seriously considered PANDAS (didn't entirely rule it out, but thought it

unlikely). They told us that the level of antibodies she had indicated that she

had,

indeed, had strep at some point in her life (which we already knew anyway) but

that it was probably not related to the OCD onset.

P. in NJ >>

[Guest guest]

the thing about Pandas --perhaps someone can answer-- is there anyone in the

known universe or anyone you have ever met who has never had strep? How do

they determine when ocd is associated there? I mean, we have ALL had strep at

some point. Pam Weintraub

<<

Unless, perhaps, the negative test is not for active strep but for strep

antibodies? Strep antibodies is one of the many things they tested my dd for

last

summer. She had a slightly elevated strep titer, but not so much that they

seriously considered PANDAS (didn't entirely rule it out, but thought it

unlikely). They told us that the level of antibodies she had indicated that she

had,

indeed, had strep at some point in her life (which we already knew anyway) but

that it was probably not related to the OCD onset.

P. in NJ >>

[Guest guest]

I read that some kids have very high titers of the antibody which shows they

had brain damaging levels of the strep.

[Guest guest]

I read that some kids have very high titers of the antibody which shows they

had brain damaging levels of the strep.

[Guest guest]

I read that some kids have very high titers of the antibody which shows they

had brain damaging levels of the strep.

[Guest guest]

It's the timing and the sudden, abrupt onset.

Parents can usually tell you the exact day when their child had sudden,

sever onset OCD or tics. I know that my son went to sleep one day a

" normal " child, and woke up the next day spitting, twitching, burping,

blurting, non-stop 24/7. You really coudn't miss it!!

If you read the literature, it's the same with the OCD kids, They

don't have any obsessions one day, and then they are complete

incapacitated by them the next.

> the thing about Pandas --perhaps someone can answer-- is there anyone

> in the

> known universe or anyone you have ever met who has never had strep?

> How do

> they determine when ocd is associated there? I mean, we have ALL had

> strep at

> some point. Pam Weintraub

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's the timing and the sudden, abrupt onset.

Parents can usually tell you the exact day when their child had sudden,

sever onset OCD or tics. I know that my son went to sleep one day a

" normal " child, and woke up the next day spitting, twitching, burping,

blurting, non-stop 24/7. You really coudn't miss it!!

If you read the literature, it's the same with the OCD kids, They

don't have any obsessions one day, and then they are complete

incapacitated by them the next.

> the thing about Pandas --perhaps someone can answer-- is there anyone

> in the

> known universe or anyone you have ever met who has never had strep?

> How do

> they determine when ocd is associated there? I mean, we have ALL had

> strep at

> some point. Pam Weintraub

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's the timing and the sudden, abrupt onset.

Parents can usually tell you the exact day when their child had sudden,

sever onset OCD or tics. I know that my son went to sleep one day a

" normal " child, and woke up the next day spitting, twitching, burping,

blurting, non-stop 24/7. You really coudn't miss it!!

If you read the literature, it's the same with the OCD kids, They

don't have any obsessions one day, and then they are complete

incapacitated by them the next.

> the thing about Pandas --perhaps someone can answer-- is there anyone

> in the

> known universe or anyone you have ever met who has never had strep?

> How do

> they determine when ocd is associated there? I mean, we have ALL had

> strep at

> some point. Pam Weintraub

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam, yes everyone gets strep, you have to be special LOL to then go on to

get a " post strep infection complication " . There are several of these:

scarlet fever, rheumatic fever, Sydenham's chorea, and a kidney one that I

always forget the name of. All of these post-strep complications are of

course more rare since the antibiotic era.

In any case it is not the presence of strep infection, or elevated strep

titers, but either of these things *at the same time as* dramatic onset or

worsening of OCD that raises suspicion of PANDAS.

Dr. Swedo NIMH proposes that PANDAS is yet another post-strep

complication, target organ brain (rather than heart, skin, kidney) and

specifically the basal ganglia, giving rise to OCD, TS, and perhaps ADHD

symptoms. It's interesting to me that Sydenham's also features Os and Cs,

in fact I've read symptom lists for this disorder and my dd met each one.

She definitely had jerky, clumsy chorea-type movements at onset and for

three months afterward.

I don't think it's known exactly what this immune system difference is that

puts some people at increased risk of post-strep infection complications

generally,or specifically with PANDAS. I think it is interesting though

that my child is descended from a long line of people who didn't handle

strep very well, many cases of rheumatic fever and Sydenham's on my father's

side of the family.

Take care,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

> the thing about Pandas --perhaps someone can answer-- is there anyone in

> the

> known universe or anyone you have ever met who has never had strep? How do

> they determine when ocd is associated there? I mean, we have ALL had strep

> at

> some point. Pam Weintraub

[Guest guest]

Hello, if it's white/green spots then your should throw it away, it's not

usable anymore, sorry

Rania Salama

Reply-To: original_kombucha

To: original_kombucha

Subject: Need advice

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 23:52:10 -0000

Hi, I have a Kobucha brew going and my culture seems ok. But it has

been over a week and the smell is kind of like rotting citrus but it

hasn't gotten any worse. However, there is no new baby forming, just

little spots of it on the surface. Can anyone tell me what's going on?

Nessa

_________________________________________________________________

Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live

Spaces

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get\

..live.com/spaces/features

[Guest guest]

Hello, if it's white/green spots then your should throw it away, it's not

usable anymore, sorry

Rania Salama

Reply-To: original_kombucha

To: original_kombucha

Subject: Need advice

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 23:52:10 -0000

Hi, I have a Kobucha brew going and my culture seems ok. But it has

been over a week and the smell is kind of like rotting citrus but it

hasn't gotten any worse. However, there is no new baby forming, just

little spots of it on the surface. Can anyone tell me what's going on?

Nessa

_________________________________________________________________

Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live

Spaces

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get\

..live.com/spaces/features

[Guest guest]

>Hello, if it's white/green spots then your should throw it away, it's not

>usable anymore, sorry

This isn't enough information to be the determining factor. Many times

SCOBY formation involves a white spotty looking formation, and spots that

are the result of yeasts or tea leaves being caught in the SCOBY matrix can

look blue or green but are not a problem.

Mold is always fuzzy. If you tough the spots and they are smooth, they are

not mold, but just normal SCOBY development.

>Hi, I have a Kobucha brew going and my culture seems ok. But it has

>been over a week and the smell is kind of like rotting citrus but it

>hasn't gotten any worse. However, there is no new baby forming, just

>little spots of it on the surface. Can anyone tell me what's going on?

>Nessa

The little spots are most likely the beginning of the new SCOBY... that's

how they start (but again, check for fuzziness), as a film and then with a

spotty looking filling-in with more opaque bits. First brews often take

longer than subsequent ones, and people's brewing times really vary from

under a week to 3 or more weeks, depending on their brewing environment and

how tart they like their KT.

Assuming you did put the initial sweetened tea in the vessel along with a

good portion of starter (liquid KT) or a portion of vinegar, your brew is

probably just being a slow starter.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

please refer to the link below

http://users.bestweb.net/~om/~kombu/FAQ/part01fa.html

Rania Salama

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: original_kombucha

To: original_kombucha

Subject: RE: Need advice

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 14:34:23 -0700

>Hello, if it's white/green spots then your should throw it away, it's not

>usable anymore, sorry

This isn't enough information to be the determining factor. Many times

SCOBY formation involves a white spotty looking formation, and spots that

are the result of yeasts or tea leaves being caught in the SCOBY matrix can

look blue or green but are not a problem.

Mold is always fuzzy. If you tough the spots and they are smooth, they are

not mold, but just normal SCOBY development.

>Hi, I have a Kobucha brew going and my culture seems ok. But it has

>been over a week and the smell is kind of like rotting citrus but it

>hasn't gotten any worse. However, there is no new baby forming, just

>little spots of it on the surface. Can anyone tell me what's going on?

>Nessa

The little spots are most likely the beginning of the new SCOBY... that's

how they start (but again, check for fuzziness), as a film and then with a

spotty looking filling-in with more opaque bits. First brews often take

longer than subsequent ones, and people's brewing times really vary from

under a week to 3 or more weeks, depending on their brewing environment and

how tart they like their KT.

Assuming you did put the initial sweetened tea in the vessel along with a

good portion of starter (liquid KT) or a portion of vinegar, your brew is

probably just being a slow starter.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

_________________________________________________________________

Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best

route! http://local.live.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Nessa,

Since you see spots forming on the surface, it seems a culture is

beginning to form. If the Kombucha Colony you started with was

refrigerated it may take longer than usual to ferment your KT and form

a Kombucha Colony,

However, it should not smell like rotten anything....how did you start

your brew. what recipe did you use and what did you use as a starter?

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev

-- In original_kombucha , " " wrote:

>

> Hi, I have a Kobucha brew going and my culture seems ok. But it has

> been over a week and the smell is kind of like rotting citrus but it

> hasn't gotten any worse. However, there is no new baby forming, just

> little spots of it on the surface. Can anyone tell me what's going on?

>

> Nessa

>

[Guest guest]

---Well I started with a culture given to me by someone, I made one

batch that turned out nice, very mellow and still a little sweet.

This next batch I made the sugar solution with boiling water then

added black tea. When it was down to body temp, I strained the tea

and added my culture with part of my last batch. Since the smell, I

decide to put the container on a towel covered heating pad and I also

have a small fan in with it to keep air circulation going. The smell

is starting to get better and actually starting to smell as it should.

The culure is forming nicely and I guess I just needed to be a little

more patient. Thanks for the help. I had read on an other site that

KT sometimes smells a bit like rotting citrus and if you leave it to

just ferment longer the smell will go away. The rotting smell was not

BAD, it was just a bit different and was not getting any worse as time

went on. Now it is getting better!

Nessa

In original_kombucha , " yoganandaom " wrote:

>

> Hi Nessa,

>

> Since you see spots forming on the surface, it seems a culture is

> beginning to form. If the Kombucha Colony you started with was

> refrigerated it may take longer than usual to ferment your KT and form

> a Kombucha Colony,

>

> However, it should not smell like rotten anything....how did you start

> your brew. what recipe did you use and what did you use as a starter?

>

> Peace, Love and Harmony,

> Bev

>

> -- In original_kombucha , " " <1love4all@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi, I have a Kobucha brew going and my culture seems ok. But it has

> > been over a week and the smell is kind of like rotting citrus but it

> > hasn't gotten any worse. However, there is no new baby forming, just

> > little spots of it on the surface. Can anyone tell me what's

going on?

> >

> > Nessa

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Connie

I have had the same experience in my own practice. It is funny but many of the teenagers will tell their parents they need to be hooked up but they can't always figure out why they just know that they feel right when they get the nfb and that things seem better to them. And then I have had the ones deny the NFB and say that nothing changed at all in their life but oh by the way they have more friends this year sna for some reason homework is so much easier than it was and oh yeah my parents are so much of jerks anymore they are actually pretty cool and they don't fight with me as much. But the NFB had nothing to do with it!!!!!! I agree with you inthat the person will feel the difference and will respond with a willingness to complete their training. Yes yes

[Guest guest]

Connie

I have had the same experience in my own practice. It is funny but many of the teenagers will tell their parents they need to be hooked up but they can't always figure out why they just know that they feel right when they get the nfb and that things seem better to them. And then I have had the ones deny the NFB and say that nothing changed at all in their life but oh by the way they have more friends this year sna for some reason homework is so much easier than it was and oh yeah my parents are so much of jerks anymore they are actually pretty cool and they don't fight with me as much. But the NFB had nothing to do with it!!!!!! I agree with you inthat the person will feel the difference and will respond with a willingness to complete their training. Yes yes

[Guest guest]

God this sounds good, like some enterprising person can find a inexpensive game to hook to Bioera for doing the standard protocols. I wonder who? and ,The new 2.1 version of BioEra has an "application player" element that allows you to control computer games. You can have some parameters controlled by eeg and others with keyboard. The 3D race game that is included uses eeg to control speed and keyboard to steer. BioEra also has the ability to send keystrokes to external applications and games can be controlled that way as well, but the set up is more difficult than with the application player.georgemartinnorthstarneurofeedbackwww.northstarneurofeedback.comOn Jun 20, 2008, at 4:30 PM, CM Van Deusen wrote:Hi ,The Thoughtstream GSR system has it's own software (mindgames) that provides some games, progressively more challenging. and gives you a statistical output (POINTS)!!! to motivate a kid to do better every time. My gripe with the Thoughtstream is the palm sensor that has so much surface area that it becomes necessary to keep the hand completely still to hold a consistant signal. In other words, the signal becomes very easily effected by artifact (false data).Though it's graphics aren't so modern, they are better based upon science that we in psychophysiology know and respect.The wild divine has better graphics and the finger sensor is nice, but it doesn't have the science to support it (based on "the yogic breath"), nor the points to tell you how well you are doing overall over time. However.Perhaps the best match is: Wilddivine hardware with Somatic Visions software.That oughta give you a nice beginning info to offer your kid clients in their language. More on EEG and games can be found on this list. Unfortunately, very little can be found on The Market. Working on it, need adviceI work on the habilitation needs of autistic kids who are high functioning enough to be able to play X-box, Nintendo DS, Gameboy and the like. What "mental" games would be ideal for kids 6 years to 12 years old range? They are so used to racing speed games and 'combat" games and i am wondering if "Wild Divine' and "Thoughtstream" (both of which i have never tried) would be enough to get them interested enough to immerself themselves with training.Also can Bio-explorer work with these two games? I just thought "thought-controlled' games would be of immense help to their lack of focus and attention.Please comment. Thanks. Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote:Our goal is to finish the video workshops on Placing Electrodes and the Basics of Brain Training in June and July. That will complete the package for introduction to the basic information, terminology and skills. Level 2, the information regarding brain activation patterns and how they relate to symptoms people are likely to experience, is already available in recorded form. I'll probably do another BioExplorer workshop and perhaps another Level 3--Managing the Training Process--this summer online as we continue to work toward getting everything into video format. The cost of travel--not to mention the great pleasure involved in it these days--has changed the whole equation of doing the traveling workshop tours for me and for participants. More importantly, the feedback from those who have participated in the online workshop and have worked with the first Skills Video workshop has strongly reinforced the benefits of that format. In the onsite workshops, you get 1-5 days straight of 8-9 hours of material...one time. While I have had some people in workshops who I sincerely believe got every single word I said, most find that it is overwhelming. The online workshop allow participants to listen at home for two hours at a time--and then receive a recorded version of what they heard, if they want to review it. The videos are downloaded directly onto your computer and can be watched in whatever chunks work for the lifestyle or attention span of the user. I'll grant that I miss the workshop format, being able to tell jokes and act out the brain states and meet the participants, but after nearly 4 years being on the road half my days, I don't miss the travel at all. For those who want to learn about brain training--if you want to learn from me--I strongly encourage you to try out one of the online or video workshops and see if it isn't a better alternative all the way around. PeteOn Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Carl Brahms <carl.brahmsgmail> wrote:I too have gone to Pete's level two class, and learning from him is incredible. I wish he was giving workshops this summer in the US. My wife is looking for an in-person training, and apparently doesn't like my disorganized and tangential teaching style ;-).-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! --- Goldringpaul.goldring1@...

[Guest guest]

God this sounds good, like some enterprising person can find a inexpensive game to hook to Bioera for doing the standard protocols. I wonder who? and ,The new 2.1 version of BioEra has an "application player" element that allows you to control computer games. You can have some parameters controlled by eeg and others with keyboard. The 3D race game that is included uses eeg to control speed and keyboard to steer. BioEra also has the ability to send keystrokes to external applications and games can be controlled that way as well, but the set up is more difficult than with the application player.georgemartinnorthstarneurofeedbackwww.northstarneurofeedback.comOn Jun 20, 2008, at 4:30 PM, CM Van Deusen wrote:Hi ,The Thoughtstream GSR system has it's own software (mindgames) that provides some games, progressively more challenging. and gives you a statistical output (POINTS)!!! to motivate a kid to do better every time. My gripe with the Thoughtstream is the palm sensor that has so much surface area that it becomes necessary to keep the hand completely still to hold a consistant signal. In other words, the signal becomes very easily effected by artifact (false data).Though it's graphics aren't so modern, they are better based upon science that we in psychophysiology know and respect.The wild divine has better graphics and the finger sensor is nice, but it doesn't have the science to support it (based on "the yogic breath"), nor the points to tell you how well you are doing overall over time. However.Perhaps the best match is: Wilddivine hardware with Somatic Visions software.That oughta give you a nice beginning info to offer your kid clients in their language. More on EEG and games can be found on this list. Unfortunately, very little can be found on The Market. Working on it, need adviceI work on the habilitation needs of autistic kids who are high functioning enough to be able to play X-box, Nintendo DS, Gameboy and the like. What "mental" games would be ideal for kids 6 years to 12 years old range? They are so used to racing speed games and 'combat" games and i am wondering if "Wild Divine' and "Thoughtstream" (both of which i have never tried) would be enough to get them interested enough to immerself themselves with training.Also can Bio-explorer work with these two games? I just thought "thought-controlled' games would be of immense help to their lack of focus and attention.Please comment. Thanks. Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote:Our goal is to finish the video workshops on Placing Electrodes and the Basics of Brain Training in June and July. That will complete the package for introduction to the basic information, terminology and skills. Level 2, the information regarding brain activation patterns and how they relate to symptoms people are likely to experience, is already available in recorded form. I'll probably do another BioExplorer workshop and perhaps another Level 3--Managing the Training Process--this summer online as we continue to work toward getting everything into video format. The cost of travel--not to mention the great pleasure involved in it these days--has changed the whole equation of doing the traveling workshop tours for me and for participants. More importantly, the feedback from those who have participated in the online workshop and have worked with the first Skills Video workshop has strongly reinforced the benefits of that format. In the onsite workshops, you get 1-5 days straight of 8-9 hours of material...one time. While I have had some people in workshops who I sincerely believe got every single word I said, most find that it is overwhelming. The online workshop allow participants to listen at home for two hours at a time--and then receive a recorded version of what they heard, if they want to review it. The videos are downloaded directly onto your computer and can be watched in whatever chunks work for the lifestyle or attention span of the user. I'll grant that I miss the workshop format, being able to tell jokes and act out the brain states and meet the participants, but after nearly 4 years being on the road half my days, I don't miss the travel at all. For those who want to learn about brain training--if you want to learn from me--I strongly encourage you to try out one of the online or video workshops and see if it isn't a better alternative all the way around. PeteOn Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Carl Brahms <carl.brahmsgmail> wrote:I too have gone to Pete's level two class, and learning from him is incredible. I wish he was giving workshops this summer in the US. My wife is looking for an in-person training, and apparently doesn't like my disorganized and tangential teaching style ;-).-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! --- Goldringpaul.goldring1@...