Supplements

August 17, 2001

I think you are taking way too much creatine. But that's MHO and

everyone has one. Are three shakes because of convenience?

MP

> Everyone,

>

> Just curious, is anyone using the full list of recommended

> supplements from EAS for their goals? For example to gain muscle

> mass and lose fat they recommend MP Dlx, Betalean HP, Synthevol and

> Betagen.

>

> I know there are cheaper alternatives, I am more interested in

> feedback regarding the efficacy of using all of the recommended

> supplements. I decided to give it a try and am overwhelmed trying

to

> keep my diet/supplements on track after only one week. A typical

day

> now includes:

>

> 6:00 am Betalean HP before workout + BetaGen

> 7:00 am Synthevol

> 7:15-7:30 am MP Dlx + BetaGen

> 9:30 am Meal

> 12:00 pm MP Dlx

> 2:00 pm Synthevol + Betalean

> 2:30 pm Meal

> 5:00 pm Meal

> 7:30 pm Meal (MP Dlx)

> 9:00 pm BetaGen

>

> and that is on days when I have a regular schedule. God forbid I

> have to adjust workout time... I would write more, but I think I

am

> late for something, just not sure what?????

>

> Joe

August 17, 2001

I think you are taking way too much creatine. But that's MHO and

everyone has one. Are three shakes because of convenience?

MP

> Everyone,

>

> Just curious, is anyone using the full list of recommended

> supplements from EAS for their goals? For example to gain muscle

> mass and lose fat they recommend MP Dlx, Betalean HP, Synthevol and

> Betagen.

>

> I know there are cheaper alternatives, I am more interested in

> feedback regarding the efficacy of using all of the recommended

> supplements. I decided to give it a try and am overwhelmed trying

to

> keep my diet/supplements on track after only one week. A typical

day

> now includes:

>

> 6:00 am Betalean HP before workout + BetaGen

> 7:00 am Synthevol

> 7:15-7:30 am MP Dlx + BetaGen

> 9:30 am Meal

> 12:00 pm MP Dlx

> 2:00 pm Synthevol + Betalean

> 2:30 pm Meal

> 5:00 pm Meal

> 7:30 pm Meal (MP Dlx)

> 9:00 pm BetaGen

>

> and that is on days when I have a regular schedule. God forbid I

> have to adjust workout time... I would write more, but I think I

am

> late for something, just not sure what?????

>

> Joe

October 4, 2004

Good supplements are:

Selenium - most people are deficiient and it is needed for

conversion of T4 to T3 and thryoid activity in the cells and liver.

Chromium - most people are deficient. It is needed for conversion of

T4 to T3 and for blood sugar control, which also controls thyroid

function since glucose must get into cell for energy production.

Vitamin B5 - needed for proper adrenal function, which is needed for

proper thyroid function.

Plenty of Vitamin C - needed for the adrenals. They have the

highest concentration of any part of the body.

CoQ10 - up to 600 mg a day. Essential for energy production in the

cell and an anticancer agent that has been found to cure breast

cancer in several patients in one study.

Natural progesterone cream - inhances thyroid function both on the

cellular level and in the thyroid. Can really increase thyroid

function if needed. Most hypos are estrogen dominant.

Magnesium - needs to be in balance with calcium. If calcium gets to

high with respect to magnesium, it will slow thyroid function.

Vitamins B12 and Folic acid - very often low in hypos and protects

the body from oxidative damage and inflammation.

Digestive enzymes and Betaine hydrochrloride - Digestive enzymes and

stomach acid are often low in hypos, which prevents them from taking

up adequate protein and nutrients. Hypos often have low levels of

blood protein and protein is needed for all the processes of thryoid

function.

A protein supplement is often very helpful for the reasons listed

above.

Probiotics for the digestive tract. Many hypos have digestive

problems and need to get intestinal tract repaired. When digestive

enzymes and acid go low, hypos are vulnerable to parasite and other

infections. Also, low thyroid function slows the rebuilding of the

intestinal lining that is required every 4 days. So, they often

develope leaky gut, which really worsens the condition and general

health.

A good general multi-vitamin.

Some doctors like Mercola recommend juicing vegetables and having

that for breakfast every day. Gets you many nutrients that are well

absorbable and gets other nutrients that you may not get in vitamins.

Vergine Coconut oil - Increases thyroid function in the cells.

Medium chain fatty acids are very easily used for energy production.

See: http://www.coconut-

info.com/hypothyroidism_and_virgin_coconut_oil.htm As a user, I can

really vouch for this. However, if you are not on optimal levels of

thyroid hormone, oils can deplete thryoid because it increases it's

use. So, if your thyroid replacement dose is too low, oils will make

it worse.

Things to Avoid:

-too many nuts of any kind - all interfere with thyroid function

-too many beans and soy - slows thyroid function. Soy is very bad.

-too many cruciferous vegetables like cabbage, brocoli, brussels

-sprouts, etc- all these interfere with thyroid function

(goitergens) - If you cook them, their goitergenicity declines

significantly. So, cooking usually makes them ok.

-too many simple carbos and too much sugar. For some reason hypos do

much better on diets that limit these. Lower carb diets seem to

improve energy. Do not go on a " no " carb diet. This will slow

thyroid function. Small amounts of complex carbs are needed for

maintaining proper blood sugar levels, which maintains thyroid

function.

-estrogens as in ERT, HRT and NHRT. - Hypos already are estrogen

dominant for the most part. Estrogen causes the binding of thyroid

hormone to a protein in the blood and makes it unavalable for

energy. It also slows thyroid function in the thyroid.

-chlorine and Floride - damaging to the thyroid.

-antihistamines and aspirine used sparingly - depletes thyroid

hormone in the blood.

There are probably more and hopefully other will add to this.

Tish

October 4, 2004

Good supplements are:

Selenium - most people are deficiient and it is needed for

conversion of T4 to T3 and thryoid activity in the cells and liver.

Chromium - most people are deficient. It is needed for conversion of

T4 to T3 and for blood sugar control, which also controls thyroid

function since glucose must get into cell for energy production.

Vitamin B5 - needed for proper adrenal function, which is needed for

proper thyroid function.

Plenty of Vitamin C - needed for the adrenals. They have the

highest concentration of any part of the body.

CoQ10 - up to 600 mg a day. Essential for energy production in the

cell and an anticancer agent that has been found to cure breast

cancer in several patients in one study.

Natural progesterone cream - inhances thyroid function both on the

cellular level and in the thyroid. Can really increase thyroid

function if needed. Most hypos are estrogen dominant.

Magnesium - needs to be in balance with calcium. If calcium gets to

high with respect to magnesium, it will slow thyroid function.

Vitamins B12 and Folic acid - very often low in hypos and protects

the body from oxidative damage and inflammation.

Digestive enzymes and Betaine hydrochrloride - Digestive enzymes and

stomach acid are often low in hypos, which prevents them from taking

up adequate protein and nutrients. Hypos often have low levels of

blood protein and protein is needed for all the processes of thryoid

function.

A protein supplement is often very helpful for the reasons listed

above.

Probiotics for the digestive tract. Many hypos have digestive

problems and need to get intestinal tract repaired. When digestive

enzymes and acid go low, hypos are vulnerable to parasite and other

infections. Also, low thyroid function slows the rebuilding of the

intestinal lining that is required every 4 days. So, they often

develope leaky gut, which really worsens the condition and general

health.

A good general multi-vitamin.

Some doctors like Mercola recommend juicing vegetables and having

that for breakfast every day. Gets you many nutrients that are well

absorbable and gets other nutrients that you may not get in vitamins.

Vergine Coconut oil - Increases thyroid function in the cells.

Medium chain fatty acids are very easily used for energy production.

See: http://www.coconut-

info.com/hypothyroidism_and_virgin_coconut_oil.htm As a user, I can

really vouch for this. However, if you are not on optimal levels of

thyroid hormone, oils can deplete thryoid because it increases it's

use. So, if your thyroid replacement dose is too low, oils will make

it worse.

Things to Avoid:

-too many nuts of any kind - all interfere with thyroid function

-too many beans and soy - slows thyroid function. Soy is very bad.

-too many cruciferous vegetables like cabbage, brocoli, brussels

-sprouts, etc- all these interfere with thyroid function

(goitergens) - If you cook them, their goitergenicity declines

significantly. So, cooking usually makes them ok.

-too many simple carbos and too much sugar. For some reason hypos do

much better on diets that limit these. Lower carb diets seem to

improve energy. Do not go on a " no " carb diet. This will slow

thyroid function. Small amounts of complex carbs are needed for

maintaining proper blood sugar levels, which maintains thyroid

function.

-estrogens as in ERT, HRT and NHRT. - Hypos already are estrogen

dominant for the most part. Estrogen causes the binding of thyroid

hormone to a protein in the blood and makes it unavalable for

energy. It also slows thyroid function in the thyroid.

-chlorine and Floride - damaging to the thyroid.

-antihistamines and aspirine used sparingly - depletes thyroid

hormone in the blood.

There are probably more and hopefully other will add to this.

Tish

October 4, 2004

Good supplements are:

Selenium - most people are deficiient and it is needed for

conversion of T4 to T3 and thryoid activity in the cells and liver.

Chromium - most people are deficient. It is needed for conversion of

T4 to T3 and for blood sugar control, which also controls thyroid

function since glucose must get into cell for energy production.

Vitamin B5 - needed for proper adrenal function, which is needed for

proper thyroid function.

Plenty of Vitamin C - needed for the adrenals. They have the

highest concentration of any part of the body.

CoQ10 - up to 600 mg a day. Essential for energy production in the

cell and an anticancer agent that has been found to cure breast

cancer in several patients in one study.

Natural progesterone cream - inhances thyroid function both on the

cellular level and in the thyroid. Can really increase thyroid

function if needed. Most hypos are estrogen dominant.

Magnesium - needs to be in balance with calcium. If calcium gets to

high with respect to magnesium, it will slow thyroid function.

Vitamins B12 and Folic acid - very often low in hypos and protects

the body from oxidative damage and inflammation.

Digestive enzymes and Betaine hydrochrloride - Digestive enzymes and

stomach acid are often low in hypos, which prevents them from taking

up adequate protein and nutrients. Hypos often have low levels of

blood protein and protein is needed for all the processes of thryoid

function.

A protein supplement is often very helpful for the reasons listed

above.

Probiotics for the digestive tract. Many hypos have digestive

problems and need to get intestinal tract repaired. When digestive

enzymes and acid go low, hypos are vulnerable to parasite and other

infections. Also, low thyroid function slows the rebuilding of the

intestinal lining that is required every 4 days. So, they often

develope leaky gut, which really worsens the condition and general

health.

A good general multi-vitamin.

Some doctors like Mercola recommend juicing vegetables and having

that for breakfast every day. Gets you many nutrients that are well

absorbable and gets other nutrients that you may not get in vitamins.

Vergine Coconut oil - Increases thyroid function in the cells.

Medium chain fatty acids are very easily used for energy production.

See: http://www.coconut-

info.com/hypothyroidism_and_virgin_coconut_oil.htm As a user, I can

really vouch for this. However, if you are not on optimal levels of

thyroid hormone, oils can deplete thryoid because it increases it's

use. So, if your thyroid replacement dose is too low, oils will make

it worse.

Things to Avoid:

-too many nuts of any kind - all interfere with thyroid function

-too many beans and soy - slows thyroid function. Soy is very bad.

-too many cruciferous vegetables like cabbage, brocoli, brussels

-sprouts, etc- all these interfere with thyroid function

(goitergens) - If you cook them, their goitergenicity declines

significantly. So, cooking usually makes them ok.

-too many simple carbos and too much sugar. For some reason hypos do

much better on diets that limit these. Lower carb diets seem to

improve energy. Do not go on a " no " carb diet. This will slow

thyroid function. Small amounts of complex carbs are needed for

maintaining proper blood sugar levels, which maintains thyroid

function.

-estrogens as in ERT, HRT and NHRT. - Hypos already are estrogen

dominant for the most part. Estrogen causes the binding of thyroid

hormone to a protein in the blood and makes it unavalable for

energy. It also slows thyroid function in the thyroid.

-chlorine and Floride - damaging to the thyroid.

-antihistamines and aspirine used sparingly - depletes thyroid

hormone in the blood.

There are probably more and hopefully other will add to this.

Tish

October 4, 2004

Wow. This was a great list! I have been afraid to

add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a lot of

medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I have gone

off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the insomnia I've

had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back the

following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a

vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to this mix,

I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Wow. This was a great list! I have been afraid to

add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a lot of

medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I have gone

off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the insomnia I've

had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back the

following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a

vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to this mix,

I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Wow. This was a great list! I have been afraid to

add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a lot of

medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I have gone

off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the insomnia I've

had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back the

following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a

vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to this mix,

I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

-----Original Message-----From: Courtenay Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:33 AMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: supplements

Wow. This was a great list! I have been afraid to add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a lot of medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I have gone off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the insomnia I've had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back the following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to this mix, I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

-----Original Message-----From: Courtenay Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:33 AMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: supplements

Wow. This was a great list! I have been afraid to add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a lot of medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I have gone off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the insomnia I've had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back the following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to this mix, I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

-----Original Message-----From: Courtenay Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:33 AMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: supplements

Wow. This was a great list! I have been afraid to add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a lot of medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I have gone off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the insomnia I've had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back the following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to this mix, I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

I had a hemoglobulin test, which came back slightly abnormal.

Instead of testing my ferritin, he tested my B12 levels. B12

came back fine. I still think I need to have my ferritin

checked.

Since my dosage increase, I feel bloody awful. Then, it

starts to clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

Best--

Courtenay.

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you

have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

-----Original

Message-----

From: Courtenay

Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:33 AM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: supplements

Wow. This was a great list! I have been

afraid to add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a

lot of medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I

have gone off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the

insomnia I've had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back

the following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a

vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to

this mix, I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

I had a hemoglobulin test, which came back slightly abnormal.

Instead of testing my ferritin, he tested my B12 levels. B12

came back fine. I still think I need to have my ferritin

checked.

Since my dosage increase, I feel bloody awful. Then, it

starts to clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

Best--

Courtenay.

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you

have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

-----Original

Message-----

From: Courtenay

Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:33 AM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: supplements

Wow. This was a great list! I have been

afraid to add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a

lot of medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I

have gone off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the

insomnia I've had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back

the following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a

vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to

this mix, I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

I had a hemoglobulin test, which came back slightly abnormal.

Instead of testing my ferritin, he tested my B12 levels. B12

came back fine. I still think I need to have my ferritin

checked.

Since my dosage increase, I feel bloody awful. Then, it

starts to clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

Best--

Courtenay.

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you

have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

-----Original

Message-----

From: Courtenay

Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:33 AM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: supplements

Wow. This was a great list! I have been

afraid to add much to my supplementation as I tend to be reactive to a

lot of medications and vitamin supplements. At the moment, I

have gone off everything, in fact, to help myself heal from the

insomnia I've had for the last six weeks. I will be adding back

the following: allergen-free multivitamin, liquid CalMag and a

vitamin B-Complex.

If there was one other thing I could safely add to

this mix, I would very much appreciate it.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Aww Courtenay, now it's my turn to say I'm sorry you're feeling awful. I am just so confident that both of us are going to get to feeling much, much better but I keep reading over and over again that it takes time. Sometimes a lot of time. We just have to hang in there. Yes, I would urge you to have your ferritin checked. I've posted low ferritin symptoms before but if you'd like, I can e-mail them directly to you. Some people can't increase thyroid meds very well unless they are also working on bringing their ferritin levels up. Hang in there.

-----Original Message-----From: Courtenay Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:35 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: supplements

I had a hemoglobulin test, which came back slightly abnormal. Instead of testing my ferritin, he tested my B12 levels. B12 came back fine. I still think I need to have my ferritin checked.

Since my dosage increase, I feel bloody awful. Then, it starts to clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

Best--

Courtenay.

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Aww Courtenay, now it's my turn to say I'm sorry you're feeling awful. I am just so confident that both of us are going to get to feeling much, much better but I keep reading over and over again that it takes time. Sometimes a lot of time. We just have to hang in there. Yes, I would urge you to have your ferritin checked. I've posted low ferritin symptoms before but if you'd like, I can e-mail them directly to you. Some people can't increase thyroid meds very well unless they are also working on bringing their ferritin levels up. Hang in there.

-----Original Message-----From: Courtenay Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:35 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: supplements

I had a hemoglobulin test, which came back slightly abnormal. Instead of testing my ferritin, he tested my B12 levels. B12 came back fine. I still think I need to have my ferritin checked.

Since my dosage increase, I feel bloody awful. Then, it starts to clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

Best--

Courtenay.

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

Courtenay.

October 4, 2004

Aww Courtenay, now it's my turn to say I'm sorry you're feeling awful. I am just so confident that both of us are going to get to feeling much, much better but I keep reading over and over again that it takes time. Sometimes a lot of time. We just have to hang in there. Yes, I would urge you to have your ferritin checked. I've posted low ferritin symptoms before but if you'd like, I can e-mail them directly to you. Some people can't increase thyroid meds very well unless they are also working on bringing their ferritin levels up. Hang in there.

-----Original Message-----From: Courtenay Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:35 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: supplements

I had a hemoglobulin test, which came back slightly abnormal. Instead of testing my ferritin, he tested my B12 levels. B12 came back fine. I still think I need to have my ferritin checked.

Since my dosage increase, I feel bloody awful. Then, it starts to clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

Best--

Courtenay.

Have you had your ferritin checked yet? If you have a low ferritin level, you may need iron.

Courtenay.

October 5, 2004

> Since my dosage increase, I feel bloody awful. Then, it starts to

> clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

__________________

This is most likely adrenal problems or adrenal fatigue. I got

insomnial for two months from this. Adrenal fatigue is very common

in hypothyroidism because thyroid levels in the blood control

adrenal size and output. So, low thyroid makes weak adrenals that

can't handle upping doses. Raising thyroid causes the adrenals to

become depleted for several weeks or more. You get symptoms of

thryoid excess because adrenal cortisol is needed for thyroid to get

into tissues and for tissues to use T3, and so without enough, you

get a build up of thyroid hormone in the blood giving symptoms of

excess. Adrenal fatigue typically causes you to feel absolutely

terrible in the mornings and improve by late afternoon or evening.

Adrenal demands are double in the morning and taper off throughout

the day. So, by evening they have finally caught up to what is

needed.

You could probably feel better with adrenal support of some kind.

This would be IsoCort or Nutri+meds adrenal. This would allow your

adrenals to rest and catch up and might make you able to sleep

better after a week or so.

Tish

October 5, 2004

Tish--

Is it safe to do this without a saliva test? I am pretty

darn sure I've got adrenal problems in spades, but all my morning

blood tests have come back normal. They even did a cortisol

injection test that came back normal.

Here's my reasoning for adrenal fatigue. I definitely fall

within the range of symptoms. Plus, I was undiagnosed for ten

years, from the age of 20 until now. In my early twenties, I

worked as a journalist and a dance teacher, while putting myself

through undergraduate school, sometimes working up to three jobs a

semester, plus working on private projects on the side (fiction,

poetry, photography). Then, I went off to graduate school where

I wrote my second novel (both unpublished at this time) and was dirt

poor. I came back here, and have been known to work at three

different colleges simultaneously while doing art shows and writing a

great deal. And let's not even get into my personal

life...

I'm not bringing up this history to gild the lily, but the fact

of the matter is, by the time I finished the last fall semester, I

totally collapsed and have not been the same since.

Oh, and in case y'all are wondering if I have had anything

published that you've ever seen, just google my name: Courtenay

. I've got one book of poetry floating around in

cyberspace for less than $10.

Best--

Courtenay.

> Since my dosage increase, I feel

bloody awful. Then, it starts to

> clear up around evening time. Aaaaargh.

__________________

This is most likely adrenal problems or adrenal fatigue. I got

insomnial for two months from this. Adrenal fatigue is very common

in hypothyroidism because thyroid levels in the blood control

adrenal size and output. So, low thyroid makes weak adrenals that

can't handle upping doses. Raising thyroid causes the adrenals to

become depleted for several weeks or more. You get symptoms of

thryoid excess because adrenal cortisol is needed for thyroid to

get

into tissues and for tissues to use T3, and so without enough,

you

get a build up of thyroid hormone in the blood giving symptoms of

excess. Adrenal fatigue typically causes you to feel absolutely

terrible in the mornings and improve by late afternoon or evening.

Adrenal demands are double in the morning and taper off throughout

the day. So, by evening they have finally caught up to what is

needed.

You could probably feel better with adrenal support of some kind.

This would be IsoCort or Nutri+meds adrenal. This would allow your

adrenals to rest and catch up and might make you able to sleep

better after a week or so.

Tish

October 5, 2004

Dear Courtenay,

Yes it is possible to have adrenal problems that don't show up on

tests. The Adrenal stimulation test, especially, can give false

results. A good book to read on that is Jeffries " Safe Uses of

Cortisol " . In it he talks about the stimulation test coming back

normal in those who have hypothalamus output that is low or not

quite functioning right. In this case, the adrenals are often just

fine, but the hypothalamus is not working right and therefore not

telling the adrenals to put out enough hormone in stress situations.

So, everything looks normal when you are calmly sitting in the

doctor's office, but when you are under stress, output does not go

up enough for it. In stress, adrenal output needs to go as high as

double or more.

The current adrenal tests are really geared more for adrenal failure

and so are not so good at picking up fatigue. Typical adrenal

fatigue results are in the normal range, but below the midline of

the range. So, for instance, the adrenals need to put out 30mg in

the morning and in adrenal fatigue, this can be a little low, like

18mg or the low 20s. In the afternoon, adrenal output needs to be

15. In adrenal fatigue, it can be 12 or 8mg. All are considered

normal, but they are low enough to make the person feel unwell.

Another thing that can happen to the adrenals is that they can have

low reserves. The adrenals are supposed to store about 3 weeks worth

of hormones for stress situations. Sometimes, especially in thyroid

treatment, they loose their reserves and cannot build them back up.

Or, they have low reserve capacity. In this situation, you would

look perfectly normal on tests, but in stress, you would run low.

Thyroid therapy tends to cause the loss of adrenal reserves. It

happens by the fact that being hypothyroid can reduce reserve

capacity as much as 60% or more and shrink the gland to half it's

normal size. The body adapts to this change by slowing the breakdown

of cortisol and slowing removal of it from the body. But, the minute

you take a thyroid pill, the breakdown and removal of cortisol

suddenly goes way up as the body begins to function at a higher

metabolic rate. The need for cortisol greatly increases because the

metabolic rate has gone up and the body is increasing it's wear and

tear and demands for energy raw materials like glucose and protein

made available by the actions of cortisol. The result is that the

adrenals quickly loose their stores and at the same time have

demands higher than they can meet. So, they cannot replenish their

stores because they can barely keep up with demand.

When this happens the adrenals go into a state of wide fluctuations.

They will stop putting out hormones for a while, while they try to

build some up. This temporary stop causes the hypothalamus to sense

that cortisol is low and put out lots of ACTH. ACTH builds up in the

blood and then when the adrenals finally make enough hormone to

release and they see that there is lots of ACTH. They think a crisis

has happened and they dump everything they have made. This causes an

up and own cycle of output in the day. If you take a 24 hour

cortisol test it can all average out to be normal, but in reality it

isn't. This cycling up and down causes you to loose your circadian

rythem and usually results in periods in the day when cortisol is

either high or low. By the afternoon, when cortisol demands are low

and the adrenals have had to rest up in the morning, when they can't

manage the high demands, the adrenals manage manage to put out

enough for that part of the day. So, you feel bad in the morning and

start to recover later in the day. The body requires that the

adrenals put out high levels in the morning and then taper off

throughout the day in order to produce seratonin, which is made into

melatonin at night, Other things for sleep are also dependent on the

adrenals working smoothly. So, this up and down cycling causes you

to loose your circadian rythem and become an insomniac.

Low dose cortisol therapy is not harmful even for a healthy person.

The reason is that the healthy adrenals put out 35 to 40 mg a day of

cortisol. The typical doctor prescribed adrenal support is 20mg or

less. You cannot overdose on anything less than what the body makes

in a day. This is because the brain will sense the dose you are

taking and adjust down the output of the adrenals so the blood

levels of cortisol stay below 35 to 40 mg. The best book to read up

on this is " Safe Uses of Cortisol. " Jeffries spent his life

researching and using low dose cortisol. Cortisol got it's bad

reputation from the hugely high doses first used when it was firt

studied. These doses were commonly 100 mg a day or more.

If a healthy person uses 20mg of cortisol, their adrenal output will

drop down so that total daily cortisol does not exceed 35 to 40 mg.

If they continue to do this, evnetually after about 4 weeks they

will become dependent and adrenal reserve and size will drop to

reflect the low demands needed of them. To reverse this, all the

person has to do is taper off the cortisol and everything will go

back to normal. If an adrenally stressed person uses low dose

cortisol, it gives the adrenals a chance to rest, rebuild and

restore their stores. It is actually helpful for them and it works

to stop the up and down cycling. Over time, when they have

recovered, they will be dependent too like the normal person. Then,

you simply taper off slowly. Some thyroid patients also have auto-

immune adrenal damage and these people will have permanent loss of

adrenal reserve and will need some support all their lives to be

fully healthy.

When adrenal output goes below what is nromal, immune function

declines, inflammation gets out of control and there is increased

risk of other outo-immune conditions developing, along with

allergies and sensitivities. Adrenal function must not be too low or

too high for the best health and immune function.

So, you can decide whether you want to do this or not. A short

course of low dose therapy to see if it would help would not be

harmful and may help. Just be sure to taper off slowly. If you

decide not to do that, then, you must focus of nutrition, eating

many frequent and healthy meals in a day, getting a minimum of 7

hours sleep a night, but 9 is best for recovery, avoiding stress,

resting a lot and lying down for 10 minutes a few times a day, and

cutting exercise to short 10 minute sessions with ample time between

for the adrenals in order to recover. Recovery takes up to 2 years

or more. If the adrenals have been damaged permanently, then they

may not fully recover.

I have been hypo for 30 years before I finally got a diagnosis and

my adrenals still have not recovered after 2 years of thryoid

therapy. Since I was low thyroid in gradeschool, they may not have

ever developed properly. For me adrenal support has been helpful and

made it possible to keep my job. I think you just have to weigh

everything and decide what is best for you.

Tish

October 5, 2004