Re: Jack LaLanne

[Guest guest]

>> Anyone can work out 2 hours a day <<

Sure, we CAN. We just WON'T.

I get all the results I want in about three hours a week. I have no interest in

doing more than that. If someone else wants to, more power to them, that's

great. But to predicate a healthy lifestyle on a completely unrealistic

prescription for every person to do two hours of working out every day is

pointless. People have jobs, families, other hobbies - need to clean the house,

shop, cook, do the dishes, walk the dogs, sit on the computer and catch up with

their email lists... etc. <G>

Christie

[Guest guest]

>

> >In the Hallelujah diet, they do eat whole wheat bread.

> >

> >

>

>Well, Ok, that is 2 for my theory (against).

>

>I was on Cliff Sheats for awhile, which DID allow whole

>wheat bread, but we didn't eat it much, because no one

>LIKED whole wheat bread. So maybe they are eating

>LESS wheat.

>

>Or maybe the problem is milk, such as it is produced here ...

>Now you will tell me they eat milk too.

>

>-- Heidi

No I won't. The HD is against animal products of any form. It's a strict

vegan diet.

[Guest guest]

>I also think that working out two hours a day is simply unrealistic for

>most people, so assuming that some or all of his good health is dependent

>on working out at that level, it's not really a way of living that can be

>widely emulated.

>

>But I'm glad he found what floats his boat.

>

>Christie

Most of us have to work so working out 2 hours a day is unrealistic. I'd

have to win the powerball lotto to have that kind of free time and to do

that, I'd have to buy a ticket. So I guess I'll continue to exercise

occasionally when I have time and when I feel like it.

[Guest guest]

Hypothyroid was very common in the macro community and cancer not unheard of

for *lifelong* macros.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

5:30 am get up. 4:45 to 7:45 train

Eat a couple of raw egg on way to work :-)

_____

From: Long [mailto:longc@...]

Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 3:55 AM

Subject: Re: Jack LaLanne

>I also think that working out two hours a day is simply unrealistic for

>most people, so assuming that some or all of his good health is dependent

>on working out at that level, it's not really a way of living that can be

>widely emulated.

>

>But I'm glad he found what floats his boat.

>

>Christie

Most of us have to work so working out 2 hours a day is unrealistic. I'd

have to win the powerball lotto to have that kind of free time and to do

that, I'd have to buy a ticket. So I guess I'll continue to exercise

occasionally when I have time and when I feel like it.

[Guest guest]

>No, seitan is not fermented, it's pure wheat gluten made from mixing whole

>wheat flour and water , kneading and washing all the bran off until pure wheat

>gluten remains. It's then cooked in a broth. Other foods in the macro diet that

>are made from seitan are fu and those are dried rings and sheets made of

>gluten .

Oh well. Not a good diet for the gluten intolerant then!

>Whole cooked soybeans are also used (one such dish is *vitality stew*) and

>black soybeans are eaten cooked to help *break up* fat deposits and tumors. Soy

>shows up and it's not just tofu , miso, tamari, natto and tempeh.

One wonders about soy ... you hear so much on both sides.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2004 9:00:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Plus I read that nitrates are disabled in your stomach,

> if you have enough stomach acid ... you would think

> that kimchi has enough acid?

Definitely not. If it did, you wouldn't have a throat left, nor a tongue, nor

any teeth. The stomach has to be at least 1000 times as acidic as kimchi, I'd

guess.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/2/2004 12:06:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

christiekeith@... writes:

> I also think that working out two hours a day is simply unrealistic for most

people, so assuming that some or all of his good health is dependent on working

out at that level, it's

> not really a way of living that can be widely emulated.

Why not? Most people watch at least an hour or two of tv everyday-- not many

people do nothing but eat, sleep and work. I manage about an hour and a half a

day, while working and going to school full time. If one works 10 hours a day,

including driving, eats 2.5 hours a day, and sleeps 8 hours a day, that still

leaves 3.5 hours to divide between leisure and exercise. If one has kids, one

can probably combine playing with them and exercise, depending on the age.

I read that new research is leaning towards revising exercise requirements to

require one hour of vigorous activity per day to keep the heart healthy rather

than 20 minutes or a half hour of walking. I don't know if the research is

solid or not, but certainly humans have traditionally had exercise-rich

lifestyles. I really don't see why anyone could expect to attain optimal health

with less than an hour of exercise a day.

Eating well made big changes in my health, but exercising doubled them.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>> Plus I read that nitrates are disabled in your stomach,

>> if you have enough stomach acid ... you would think

>> that kimchi has enough acid?

>

>Definitely not. If it did, you wouldn't have a throat left, nor a tongue, nor

any teeth. The stomach has to be at least 1000 times as acidic as kimchi, I'd

guess.

I know it isn't as acid as your stomach, but it does neutralize

nitrates somehow. The bacteria probably eat the nitrates

though, different process? Plus the nitrates sit in kimchi

a lot longer than in your stomach. What DOES it take to

neutralize a nitrate?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/3/04 3:26:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> i'm not following...when digesting a meal stomach acid is typically pH 2 or

> thereabouts (it has to be for pepsinogen to be activated). lemon juice and

> vinegar are about the same pH - and are often used in school experiments to

> test how various substances would react to stomach acid. is kimchi juice

> 1000 times less acidic than lemon juice or vinegar?

I sure hope so. Have you ever tried swishing vinegar around in your mouth

undiluted? I was doing this with kombucha for my periodontitis, but when I

switched to raw ACV, I found that it did days worth of damage to the tissue in

my

mouth.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/3/04 5:27:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

heidis@... writes:

> I know it isn't as acid as your stomach, but it does neutralize

> nitrates somehow. The bacteria probably eat the nitrates

> though, different process? Plus the nitrates sit in kimchi

> a lot longer than in your stomach. What DOES it take to

> neutralize a nitrate?

A reduction reaction I guess. I don't know what the nitrate gets turned

into. Presumably the bacteria could use it to synthesize proteins. But

nitrates

in themselves aren't harmful at all-- nitrosamines are. Berries contain

chemicals that prevent nitrates from being converted to nitrosamines in the

intestines. Perhaps cabbage could as well?

Chris

[Guest guest]

>> Plus I read that nitrates are disabled in your stomach,

>> if you have enough stomach acid ... you would think

>> that kimchi has enough acid?

>

>Definitely not. If it did, you wouldn't have a throat left, nor a

>tongue, nor any teeth. The stomach has to be at least 1000 times

>as acidic as kimchi, I'd guess.

i'm not following...when digesting a meal stomach acid is typically pH 2 or

thereabouts (it has to be for pepsinogen to be activated). lemon juice and

vinegar are about the same pH - and are often used in school experiments to

test how various substances would react to stomach acid. is kimchi juice

1000 times less acidic than lemon juice or vinegar?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

From: ChrisMasterjohn@...

Reply-

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:46:03 -0500

Subject: Re: Jack LaLanne

>

> In a message dated 2/2/2004 12:06:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> christiekeith@... writes:

>

>> I also think that working out two hours a day is simply unrealistic for most

>> people, so assuming that some or all of his good health is dependent on

>> working out at that level, it's

>> not really a way of living that can be widely emulated.

>

>

> Why not? Most people watch at least an hour or two of tv everyday-- not many

> people do nothing but eat, sleep and work. I manage about an hour and a half

> a day, while working and going to school full time. If one works 10 hours a

> day, including driving, eats 2.5 hours a day, and sleeps 8 hours a day, that

> still leaves 3.5 hours to divide between leisure and exercise. If one has

> kids, one can probably combine playing with them and exercise, depending on

> the age.

>

> I read that new research is leaning towards revising exercise requirements to

> require one hour of vigorous activity per day to keep the heart healthy rather

> than 20 minutes or a half hour of walking. I don't know if the research is

> solid or not, but certainly humans have traditionally had exercise-rich

> lifestyles. I really don't see why anyone could expect to attain optimal

> health with less than an hour of exercise a day.

>

> Eating well made big changes in my health, but exercising doubled them.

>

> Chris

And if one has anything else to do in one's life, including such tasks as

reading and responding to email, relaxing for a bit before going to bed,

etc, etc, then suddently a couple of hours a day is unreasonable.

As far as the amount of exercise required - an hour a day (7 hours a day) of

exercise a day exceeds any requirement that I have ever seen. Perhaps if the

exertion level is low (walking or even slow jogging), but if one is working

out very strenuously, I really doubt that an AVERAGE of an hour will yield

significant health benefits over say, an average of a half an hour or even

less very strenuous activity. Apparently, for instance, the benefits of

extreme interval training like the Tabata protocol can approximate or even

exceed 45 minutes of aerobic exercise, and certainly a strenuous kettlebell

workout need not be an hour. Pavel even recommends that you not exceed 45

minutes, and not to do that every day (i.e. alternate with shorter

workouts).

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>And if one has anything else to do in one's life, including such tasks as

>reading and responding to email, relaxing for a bit before going to bed,

>etc, etc, then suddently a couple of hours a day is unreasonable.

And when you consider people who have spouses, or boyfriends or girlfriends

-- or children! -- it gets even more absurd.

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/4/04 9:27:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,

implode7@... writes:

> And if one has anything else to do in one's life, including such tasks as

> reading and responding to email, relaxing for a bit before going to bed,

> etc, etc, then suddently a couple of hours a day is unreasonable.

That's just your choice. It's one thing to say you *can't* exercise; it's

entirely another to say you'd rather read and respond to email, read, relax, or

get more sleep. If you're doing aerobics, you can read at the same time

anyway, if you're using a machine.

> Apparently, for instance, the benefits of

> extreme interval training like the Tabata protocol can approximate or even

> exceed 45 minutes of aerobic exercise, and certainly a strenuous kettlebell

> workout need not be an hour. Pavel even recommends that you not exceed 45

> minutes, and not to do that every day (i.e. alternate with shorter

> workouts).

I agree that the required time would depend on the exercise, and that any

amount of kettlebell training would be vastly superior to double or triple the

same time as aerobics.

Personally, however, I can't work out with a kettlebell *less* than 45

minutes, because, limiting my resting periods to one minute between each set, I

don't really feel like I've gotten a workout until I reach 40 minutes or so. So

I

tend to do 45 minutes to an hour with ballistics, and 35-45 minutes when I

emphasize presses.

I'm just beginning though, and I'm switching with my gym workout, and haven't

done snatches with the kettlebell now. I've tried them at the gym though

doing sets of 5 with 60-lb dumbells, and I think if I emphasized snatches I

could

get a good workout in a half hour, whereas swings and cleans take longer.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/4/04 12:01:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> And when you consider people who have spouses, or boyfriends or girlfriends

>

> -- or children! -- it gets even more absurd.

It doesn't get absurd at all. Watching tv with your kids is hardly quality

time, so I think most people could replace tv with exercise.

I don't have a girlfriend right now, but I have at points while I was

working, going to school, cooking my own food, leisure reading, and working out.

Most people, I think, are too tired to exercise, rather than don't have any

time,

and need to chill out and relax. But that's because they don't have any

stamina, in large part because they don't exercise.

Chris

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Gene-

>

> >And if one has anything else to do in one's life, including such

tasks as

> >reading and responding to email, relaxing for a bit before going

to bed,

> >etc, etc, then suddently a couple of hours a day is unreasonable.

>

> And when you consider people who have spouses, or boyfriends or

girlfriends

> -- or children! -- it gets even more absurd.

>

>

>

>

> -

And whenever I sit down and figure out just how much time I SHOULD

have for this or that activity based on working hours, sleeping

hours, etc, I find that, in reality, there's all this

amorphous 'stuff' that takes time that I never figure in. I do manage

to get in an hour a day of exercise (!) in a good week (maybe with a

day or so off), but I just don't think that 2 hours is really

possible for me, and I just don't think that there would be much

value added either.

[Guest guest]

>>And if one has anything else to do in one's life, including such tasks as

>>reading and responding to email, relaxing for a bit before going to bed,

>>etc, etc, then suddently a couple of hours a day is unreasonable.

Oh, to heck with this 2 hour a day stuff. I tried that impossible

one-legged naked warrior squat ... first time I only got down two

inches, mind you, but now I can go up to 8 (then I just hold it

like a yoga pose) and my legs are stronger than they've been

for 10 years. I just do it while I'm waiting for something to cook

or whatever. If I ever make it all the way down and up I'll

break out the champagne.

What is interesting about that pose, BTW is that I have a bum

knee and can't do ANY other leg exercises without throwing

it out -- lunges, squats, etc. But balancing on one leg (even

the bum one) is ok, and seems to be fixing the muscle

imbalance that is the core problem.

Lifting arm weights only takes about 15 minutes to get

decent results if you aren't going for a competition.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Wait until you have a toddler or two under foot. At the end of the day you

will have had your exercise by the end of the day. Unless you put them in a

cage all day.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

In a message dated 2/4/04 12:01:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> And when you consider people who have spouses, or boyfriends or

girlfriends

>

> -- or children! -- it gets even more absurd.

It doesn't get absurd at all. Watching tv with your kids is hardly quality

time, so I think most people could replace tv with exercise.

I don't have a girlfriend right now, but I have at points while I was

working, going to school, cooking my own food, leisure reading, and working

out.

Most people, I think, are too tired to exercise, rather than don't have any

time,

and need to chill out and relax. But that's because they don't have any

stamina, in large part because they don't exercise.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/4/04 8:08:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, longc@...

writes:

> When you get one, you'll get a dose of reality. Certainly, the sexercise

> is fun but an hour a day? Hmmm. Hopefully your wife/girlfriend will be more

> cooperative.

Maybe a wife, but, a girlfriend? I don't think an hour a day is

unreasonable.

Also, as Gene pointed out, you can lower your need for exercise by increasing

the intensity. Locking your elbows and/or suspending your legs by resting on

your toes and the balls of your feet can be increase the endurance value, to

say nothing of more complex arrangements.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Well if you have a girlfriend/wife there is easy a hour of sexercise a day

there

If you have kids you can always bounce em on your stomach ( using your arms

) while doing leg raises

Hehehehe

_____

From: Idol [mailto:Idol@...]

Sent: Thursday, 5 February 2004 2:36 AM

Subject: Re: Jack LaLanne

Gene-

>And if one has anything else to do in one's life, including such tasks as

>reading and responding to email, relaxing for a bit before going to bed,

>etc, etc, then suddently a couple of hours a day is unreasonable.

And when you consider people who have spouses, or boyfriends or girlfriends

-- or children! -- it gets even more absurd.

-

[Guest guest]

At 09:18 AM 2/5/04 +1000, you wrote:

> If you have kids you can always bounce em on your stomach ( using your arms

> ) while doing leg raises

My brother-in-law used to do Kiddie-Ups ... lie on back, balance kid on

hands and feet. Lift, etc. If nothing else, it promoted the kid's

sense of balance, she became a dancer. :-D

It's finally happened. I'm slightly mad. Oh dear. ~Queen

[Guest guest]

>Wait until you have a toddler or two under foot. At the end of the day you

>will have had your exercise by the end of the day. Unless you put them in a

>cage all day.

>

>Judith Alta

Agreed. I have 6 kids, don't watch TV, and it's hard to find time to

exercise. I could get in some everyday but would have to give up other

things to do so.

[Guest guest]

>Well if you have a girlfriend/wife there is easy a hour of sexercise a day

>there

When you get one, you'll get a dose of reality. Certainly, the sexercise

is fun but an hour a day? Hmmm. Hopefully your wife/girlfriend will be more

cooperative.

>If you have kids you can always bounce em on your stomach ( using your arms

>) while doing leg raises

I do this. I never thought to count it as exercise. I consider it play time.

>Hehehehe

Funny man, you are. Must be an Australian thing. I can appreciate a sense

of humor.

[Guest guest]

>In a message dated 2/3/04 3:26:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>s.fisher22@... writes:

>

>> i'm not following...when digesting a meal stomach acid is

>typically pH 2 or

>> thereabouts (it has to be for pepsinogen to be activated). lemon

>juice and

>> vinegar are about the same pH - and are often used in school

>experiments to

>> test how various substances would react to stomach acid. is kimchi juice

>> 1000 times less acidic than lemon juice or vinegar?

>

>I sure hope so. Have you ever tried swishing vinegar around in your mouth

>undiluted? I was doing this with kombucha for my periodontitis,

>but when I

>switched to raw ACV, I found that it did days worth of damage to

>the tissue in my

>mouth.

but still, it's not likely that stomach acid is 1000 times more acidic than

kimchi juice. i haven't swished vinegar in my mouth, but have sucked on a

lemon before. my teeth, throat and tongue are still there. and i've had

kombucha that turned to vinegar. sure they can wear away at your enamel, but

i think the " 1000 times more acidic " statement is really exagerated. i'm

sure kimchi juice acidity varies from batch to batch, and although any given

batch may not reach pH 2, it may get acidic enough to neutralize harmful

compounds such as nitrosamines - although this is just a guess.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------